US Military 25m ALT-C Qualification Course... With An Open Bolt Sterling Mk.4 / L2A3?

Join us on the App! weaponsandwar.tv/
A number of years ago now, Henry of ‪@9HoleReviews‬ challenged me to try to do the rather lame 25m ALT-C rifle qualification course with an open-bolt 9mm Sterling Mk.4 / L2A3. Did I manage it? Did I redeem my honour with my KP-15 / CMMG PCC? What about the closed bolt Sterling Mk.6?
Playeur/Utreon: playeur.com/c/...
Patreon: / blokeontherange
Buy Me A Coffee: www.buymeacoff...
Teespring: teespring.com/...
Instagram: / blokeontherange
Facebook: / blokeontherange

[@9HoleReviews]

Congrats. I’ll get you an expert badge in the mail shortly!

[@norwegianwiking]

Now you should do a open bolt on the steel. Maybe a BREN?

[@Dr.D00p]

Congratulations, you have achieved the required marksmanship scores with the Mark IV Blaster for entrance into the Empires Stormtrooper Training Academy..

[@peterking8586]

And the Imperial Storm Troopers used the British SMG.

[@Chlorate299]

​@@peterking8586 That was the joke.

[@peterking8586]

This was my personal weapon in the British Army. We received some substandard Indian manufactured ammunition, which wasn’t always capable of blowing the bolt fully back, resulting in full automatic fire. This happened to me and the Sergeant Major had some “interesting” words for me, until I showed him the selector position and he fired the gun and had the same runaway.

[@NickfromNLondon]

SMG was my personal weapon for 20+ years we were right at the end of the SA80 conversion. Last year they ran out of 9mm ammunition. I learned to put the butt under the shoulder straps of the 58 pattern webbing. This locked the butt in place give good three points of support. The qualification shoot included an advance to contact, so the savvy held back a couple of rounds until they were close to the target.

[@kathleenfoster9887]

It was great fun to watch and I congratulate you on being real thanks

[@michaelnewell9662]

when i was in the USAF, we would use 3 magazines loaded with 4, 3, & 3 rounds respectively. you start locked & loaded with the 4 round mag. this forces you to do two reloads on the clock. the shooting would be broken into 4 or 5 cycles: prone - supported, prone - unsupported, kneeling - supported against the side of a post, standing - over barricade, and sometimes prone - unsupported wearing a gas mask.

[@MJA5]

I remember it well! Nail it and get a decoration for you ribbon rack. I think expert was 36-40. It was a fun qual with an M16, it would be tough with the SMG open bolt.

[@ThisOldHelmet]

I remember that from my time in the USAF! Ah… memories. 😊

[@donwyoming1936]

In my 20 yrs in the USAF, they changed M16-Qual at least 4 times. We had a single silhouette printed on a standard piece of paper with a max score of 400. Then the same target but only counted hits. So, max score of 40. Then a large target with several silhouettes with a max score of 40. Then the 10 silhouette target with max score of 40. Then we went to 50 rounds and added the gas mask & body armor.

[@leighrate]

Having shot a Sterling a time or two, I'm actually impressed that you came remotely near the smaller targets. Look on the bright side. Now we know why Stormtroopers are such crap shots. 😂😂

[@joshuahuling303]

US Army from 2015-now. Before they discontinued this qual in about 2021, they had us shoot it with 3 mags. You got a 20 for prone supported, and and two 10s for unsupported and kneeling. There was a target order you were supposed to shoot in that was the same as the pop up order, but the reality is that nobody was checking between iterations. Smart shooters would use the prone supported mag to max out all the harder targets (so 2 in each of the 300 and 250, then 4 in each of the 150s and 200s) so they wouldn’t have to shoot any of them in the kneeling or unsupported section. Then on the unsupported and kneeling sections you’d just put 5 rounds each in the huge bottom 4 diamond targets. Easy. Literally never shot lower than a 39 on this (that run with crappy M4 BUIS instead of usual CCO or ACOG). I think they discontinued it because it was so easy and being used by unit commanders as an excuse not to go to the actual pop up range, which required a bit more organization to set up as well as a bit more skill from the shooters (so lower scores on the NCOERs making the unit not look as good). Now we still have a 40 round course but it’s all shot from around a vtac barricade, 4 mags with 10 rounds each from a different position (prone unsupported, supported, kneeling, standing) and there is no paper target alternate. Mag changes are on the clock while they weren’t on the old course (you paused between iterations). Overall it’s a slightly more difficult course.

[@svenblubber5448]

Next, do Maths Qualification Course! First round: solve 9+15!

[@Kefuddle]

It is surprising how the brain can invert what you need to do with 9 when in a rush or under a bit of pressure.

[@joeg5414]

easy you do 15+10-1=24 that's what they teach now I think

[@Chilly_Billy]

​@joeg5414 9 + 15 = whatever makes you feel comfortable

[@Kefuddle]

@Chilly_Billy Ah yes. My truth!

[@Aikibiker1]

You should try the 25 meter pistol qualification too. That one is actually a good test.

[@bronco5334]

The movement of the barrel when dry firing is also much more pronounced than live fire, because in live fire, the bolt is slowed down by the need to overcome the friction (and inertia) of stripping a cartridge out of the magazine and feeding it into the chamber. It's not really intended to be terribly accurate, of course, it's meant to put out a high volume of firepower at 100 meters and less. Officers and sergeants aren't really supposed to be doing the shooting, they're supposed to be leading and directing the shooters. They just need something for the "oh shit we're about to be overrrun" type situations. Light, fast firing, but mediocre accuracy is a good tradeoff for the intended use. The bigger problem is open-bolt-gun's penchant for accidentally firing when dropped, struck, or jarred

[@leaspeed6]

While I've found our parts-kit rebuilt FA Sterling to be quite accurate vs our P90 which is ALL OVER THE PLACE, I doubt I would do better on this course with it. The key to not looking bad is to only shoot the Sterling while wearing a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet... then any hits you make are almost unbelievable and worthy of praise.

[@kingerikthegreatest.ofall.7860]

I did a house clearing course in the Canadian army with a full auto sterling .

[@VeraTR909]

Sounds like fun (in training at least, not in war)

[@michaeltempsch5282]

Had the M/45B (Swedish K) when I did my military service. The AK5 (Swedish version if the FNC 80) was coming in, and I got to do 10 rnds with it during a familiarisation day - on the 100m range it felt like cheating... First time shooting it and it was no problem, not just hitting the target (½ figure IIRC), but getting a decent group (within a palm)

[@Braun30]

In 2003 did it with a M16 as given 3 minutes before by the local US Army unit in Bad Aibling. Hit 40. What really helped was the Swiss 1975 Helmet where the back is slightly high, avoiding the helmet coming down on your eyes which was what happened regularly with the US Fritz helmet. Funny thing was that I casually said I detected a stopping point in the trigger, armourer put the rifle to be seen to as the US doctrine apparently is there should be no such point.

[@RaDeus87]

I'm sorry Bloke, but that Sterling run was so bad that we have to send you back to bootcamp 😂 At least you can teach the kids how to shave 👍

[@stickfighter1038]

Appreciate the challenge doing this with an Open Bolt Sterling. Remember having done one of these Quals one year in the Army but that was with an M16.

[@DirtyDiksgunoroma]

You engineernerded this to perfection. Easy springs and have a pint and a pie! Nice work sir.

[@muskett4108]

Why don't you rest your mag when shooting off the elbows? Loved my days when I used to shoot a SMG Sterling.

[@CAPNMAC82]

That's one of my favorite courses of fire. It's not especially difficult, but you do need some basic skills, and every distraction is something stood in the way of your success. It can be even more grueling--to pick a word poorly--by running relays suing stopwatch sets. So that you have to wait for the rest of the relay to start your timer again. And of course that waiting time is there nagging at a person to start twiddling with the sights or faffing with slings or the like, too, or for just building up the BP.

[@terrydelorme]

This is like using a U.S. M60 qualification target with a German MG 3. Thanks for playing.

[@leoroverman4541]

SMG Sterling was my weapon in Germany 69-70. I think from memory the instructors always pointed out that it was a close in weapon. Given my location in the back of a comcen truck, should the balloon have gone up- aimed shots would be the last thing on my mind, push come to shove.😬

[@h.c5750]

That is an exceptionally smokey AR

[@MJA5]

😂

[@PitPwny]

9mm blowback upper

[@pigletsdaddy3052]

Thumbs up for the adding!

[@tughantelatar]

How can I find a PDF version of the target, I would like to try this course myself too.

[@Britephartt]

I got medals at Bisley and I can't understand how you fire prone with your elbows off the ground. Borden (REME Armourer training) teach that the Stirling fired before the bolt finish moving forward. They called it spend case projection.

[@gavinhammond1778]

How well do reduced size targets of that type compare to shooting at the actual range they're meant to replicate? Thanks for the content.

[@huey148]

While it was used as an alternate qual, it’s not really doing anything but showing you can hold a 25 meter zero. A 25 meter zero will generally put round on target out to 350 or so. But impact varies widely. If you were shooting at real targets at those simulated differences, you would have to know all your hold over/unders to get them to all hit center. By making the circles in the center the same size, you can see if somebody can maintain a constant zero shooting their weapon. Still fun you tried this.

[@geodkyt]

When I was an infantry Drill Sergeant, I advocated to the schoolhouse that the targets be printed with ghost outlines that corresponded to the hold overs/hold unders, and that scoring be changed so the ghost outlines be the relevant zones for a valid hit. Because, yeah, Alt-C didn't test the ability to actually shoot the rifle at range, merely your 25m zero and consistent marksmanship basics (sight picture, hold, etc.).

[@FIREBRAND38]

Um, no. That was the M16A1 series target meaning that you had a 250 meter battlesight zero (obtained at 25 meters) so you could hold center mass out to 300 meters and hit the target. The idea that on a real popup target range you would have to detect the target, estimate the range and then apply a memorized holdover/under is ludicrous.

[@bronco5334]

You had at least three off on the AR15-platform rifle. You were counting as "hits" some impacts where the paper tore far enough to touch, but the grease ring from the projectile itself did not touch the target silhouette. ...and that's without counting that you're using whopping big pistol caliber instead of .223, and that the reduced-size target makes the bullet effectively "bigger", thereby making what would be misses at full range into hits simply because of the extra allowable error.

[@fabpoltronieri]

Well done

[@sjk8273]

Are targets very expensive in Switzerland?

[@elanman608]

Was I the only one to notice the arithmetical error. 9 + 15 = 24 not 26 I think that's unqualified.

[@bronco5334]

23 is the minimum qualification... at least, on the pop-up range. I don't recall if the scoring is changed on alt-C, but I don't think it is

[@BicyclesMayUseFullLane]

@@bronco5334 Well, Bloke did read out the qualification criteria at the beginning of the video. IIRC I read somewhere that alt-C is always regular range +2.

[@grahambamford9073]

It's very like break barrel air rifle shooting by the sounds of it.a lot of movement of the gun before the bullet even leaves the barrel. Air guns are very hold sensitive and air gun shooters use "artillery hold" to compensate for the guns movement. Intresting.

[@DagaYute]

Neat demonstration. With the change to the newest rifle qual, the Alt-C is no longer used as qualification. We would previously shoot it prone supported, prone unsupported, and kneeling.

[@jamesbromstead4949]

Obscure Amateur radio sarcasm - "Okay Bloke... now send it with your Left Foot..."

[@simonjones6128]

Good job Mike

[@Chlorate299]

That CMMG does look like a lot of fun. The suppressed closed-bolt Sterling does not.

[@garyhowell8607]

It’s called a room broom for a reason

[@truckerallikatuk]

If nothing else, the firing pin would be hitting the softer brass of the cartridge before the bolt hits home.

[@geodkyt]

Yeah, the energy used to strip a round out of the chamber *and* the physical "shock absorber" effect of the brass case dampen the open bolt forward jolt versus dry fire. The bolt *shouldn't* go "steel on steel" is a case is in the chamber at all - the case mouth stopping when it hits the lip inside the chamber it headspaces off provides more resistance than the bolt slamming forward - if not, open bolt SMGs would *routinely* have serious out of battery discharges, as the firing pin slams into the primer right after it strips it out of the magazine, but the round is still somewhat resisting the bolt due to inertia.

[@spraynpray]

I wonder how well you'd do if you sighted in the open bolt.

[@1982rrose]

What did you shoot in the army? Shoot to kill? Challenge your friends (depending on range availabilty) to do the run down

[@SinginShooter]

7:15 Last round sounded different. :/

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

And now I have an excuse for being god awful with mine when I carried it.

[@Tesserae]

Does that soldier in the poster image for this video have three hands? 🤚 🖐️ ✋ There seems to be a third hand at the bottom 🤔

[@doktormusmatta]

Where did you get the target and score sheet?

[@ElTejon47901]

Alt C is defunct now but was only Army. Shot a lot in Guard. I enjoyed it.

[@MJA5]

USAF used it for many years.

[@ElTejon47901]

@@MJA5 Ah, I am learning!

[@bronco5334]

Alt C was also only supposed to be used it it was not *possible* to do a proper qualification; like if you're stationed in a foreign nation where there are limited facilities available. Likewise, the 25-meter zero is *supposed* to be only for field expedient use; proper zeroing was supposed to be done at full range.

[@454FatJack]

1. Ammo what used in test and sight key. 2. Back sight postion’s , what is in that smg type. 3. Sight in 50, 100m what ever there is. 4. Then do this test.

[@billrolston5800]

Was shit at everything else but I could put 3 on a quarter at 25m standing while on automatic. It low key pissed everyone else off.

[@MichaelJohnson-tw7dq]

Nice shootin Tex.

[@0ldb1ll]

This gun is not designed to be fired like that. The magazine should rest on the left forearm with targets at a range of 25m.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Please RTFM...

[@billmccrackin8825]

No wonder 007 never gets hit.

[@Aikibiker1]

I shotthatcourse plenty of times. The only time I scored less then expert was when I shot it in Kosovo during a blizzard. Florida man is not ment for the snow and shivering while shooting does not lead to the best accuracy. I still qualified though.

[@oldesertguy9616]

I was shooting high expert in bootcamp all the way until qualification when it started pouring down on us. My glasses fogged up and I could barely see my target at 500 yards. I ended up barely qualifying.

[@TacShooter]

What is the muzzle brake / compensator you have on the AR?

[@Scott-qq9jd]

That's a Walker NERO 9.

[@Georgewilliamherbert]

Ooh. Accelerometer data?…

[@katherinedrake-wilkes6567]

Doing this with an ACOG felt like cheating when i was in.

[@HerrPolden]

But could you qualify with your Olympic pistol?🤔

[@toestr2120]

I've always wondered how many genuinely good shooters get screwed out of expert by being issued a beat rifle.

[@macnitt4039]

Alot, I had so much gas leaking out I couldnt see after 2 or 3 rounds.

[@petervanderwaart1138]

In Basic Training (1969), a screw in the rear sight of my M-14 came loose. Fortunately, I had a chance to re-zero. Some other guy could be so unlucky as to not notice.

[@sandymackay4017]

@peterking8586. Can confirm mate. Smg, Slr, Gpmg, Pistol. All stopped too often. A lot of the powder was not burning, and quickly fouled up the parts. Useless.

[@TommyTucker0]

yes bla bla bla, but the Sterling is far cooler so for that reason alone the Sterling is the winner 😜

[@wilomica]

I suspect the sterling MK IV is not very accurate! 🤣 It's not surprising a modern weapon would outperform an obsolete one! In my Grandparents day the Sterling was fine but that was long ago. What if you could put a reflex sight on a closed bolt Sterling?

[@bronco5334]

Then you would have an MP5.

[@jic1]

@@bronco5334 UMP.

[@glock22357]

kudu tier in C and A??? Can anyone translate???

[@pghgb5572]

Kudu Tier - Kudu shooting centre. Sion - a town in Switzerland (in one of the French speaking areas, it would seem).

[@glock22357]

@@pghgb5572 Got it. I see the "bloke" isn't English anymore. It's that bad in the Uk. So sad.

[@M.M.83-U]

Coup du Tir (I presume it's the name of the shooting range), in Sion (the capital city of the Canton Vallese, one region of Switzerland).

[@pghgb5572]

@@glock22357 as far as I am aware he is still British - but as he speaks 4 or 5 languages the opportunity to go pretty much anywhere he wanted lead him to live and work in the Netherlands and then Switzerland. If I had half that linguistic ability I would have probably tried my luck overseas as well - Engineers are always in demand.

[@jic1]

@@pghgb5572 If my memory isn't playing tricks with me, I seem to remember him saying that he couldn't speak Dutch when he moved to the Netherlands, nor German when he moved to Switzerland, so I think you might have got cause and effect backwards there: i.e. he speaks four or five languages because he lived and worked overseas, not the other way around.

[@richardjohnson8009]

How many shots do you think youd hit with an ar at 150 yards on a full human with iron sights?

[@richardjohnson8009]

If im honest I dont think ive ever missed a shot at 150 yards.

[@donwyoming1936]

You shouldn't miss a full, or even half, silhouette at 150m with any AR.

[@allahsnackbar9915]

holy shit that sterling has had some horrible rust to it or its coated in bedliner lol

[@josedorsaith5261]

It's the coat. It's pretty cool

[@chemistrykrang8065]

Yep the commercial ones are painted in a black crackle finish paint like the dashboard on an old car... apparently the UK forces ones got the standard (at the time) smooth Suncorite paint instead.

[@markpaterson6466]

9 +15 is 24

[@neutral_af]

I can't be trusted to put my earpro on yet I'm trusted by the state to own guns ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@kingkarlito]

we all know striking a primer in a bullet not supported in a barrel just explodes in all directions and doesn't really accelerate the lead. yet advanced ignition of the primer is somehow pushing back significantly on the bolt of the sterling before the round is completely in the barrel. this is how we get fuds.

[@okaro6595]

If is not that the primer explodes when the round is not yet chambered. It is about fractions of a millimeter.

[@Dumbo3.1428]

I think it is friction and inertia of the round pickt from the magazine that has a dampening effect on the bolt. Not a recoiling of the fired round

[@bower31]

You're imagining the case fully unsupported, this is talking about the last millimeter of travel maybe. The case is almost entirely supported by the chamber at this point. Advanced primer ignition is a well known and designed function in specific weapon systems. It's more of a debate of if this is occurring in the Sterling specifically.

[@oldesertguy9616]

@@Dumbo3.1428 I was thinking the same thing. Stripping the round from the mag would definitely slow the bolt some.

[@swedishchef3895]

35th like.

[@spencereagle1118]

Your index finger is alarmingly close to the muzzle.

[@rttakezo2000]

"US military"? AFAIK only the US Army did this, none of the other services.

[@MJA5]

USAF used this qual extensively for arming group B, I did this qual at least 8 times (1986- 2006 now retitred). Even while I was in AFSOC I remember this qual.

[@joearledge1]

​@@MJA5yeah... not something I'd brag about... boyscout rifle qual was harder than this.... in the most literal sense possible, you could do this course of fire with a pistol and get expert...

[@bronco5334]

@@joearledge1 Consistent hits with a pistol on a 2-inch silhouette at 25 meters? I'm a good pistol shot, but that's a real stretch. Sure, you *could theoretically* do it, but let's be honest, that's outside the physical capabilities of most pistols.