US vs UK Doctor Training: What’s Better? (Differences Explained)

The US or the UK? Which is better for medical school? 🇺🇸vs🇬🇧
What are the differences in opportunities, location, pay, training, and standardized exams? Doctor KZbinr‪@DoctorAmedicine‬explains how he ultimately made his decision as an Indian applicant. Do I agree? And how do you make the best choice for you?
🔬 Use code UKVSUS for 20% off The Med School Insiders Ultimate Research Course medschoolinsiders.com/researc...
The course distills the tactics and lessons we’ve learned from earning more than 60 research items each. Elevate your research to the highest level so that you can have your top pick of medical programs across the globe. 🌎
💯 Join this channel for exclusive perks:
/ @kevinjubbalmd
🌍 Website & blog - kevinjubbalmd.com
💌 Weekly newsletter - kevinjubbalmd.com/newsletter
📸 Instagram - / kevinjubbalmd
🐦 Twitter - / kevinjubbalmd
🗣️ Facebook - / kevinjubbalmd
🎵 Tiktok - / kevinjubbalmd
🎥 My KZbin Gear: kit.co/kevinjubbalmd/
👀 Hand Picked Productivity Tools: www.amazon.com/shop/medschool...
🎵My Study Playlist: open.spotify.com/user/1231934...
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Reaction
15:15 Final Thoughts
LINKS FROM VIDEO:
I Denied My Heritage. Here’s Why I’m Revealing it Now. (AMA) • I Denied My Heritage. ...
#doctorreacts #medstudent #DoctorAmedicine
====================
Disclaimer: Content of this video is my opinion and does not constitute medical advice. The content and associated links provide general information for general educational purposes only. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Kevin Jubbal, M.D. will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death. May include affiliate links to Amazon. As an Amazon Associate, I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases made through them (at no extra cost to you).

[@dr.msaqibhissan4370]

Hi Kevin. I am a registrar in Stroke Medicine in UK. I have done 3 years of internal medicine training and still far far away from being a consultant. I would like to highlight a few things here 1. Uk training system is much longer than US. For example, if one wants to be a neurologist, he has to work 2 years as SHO, 3 years of IM training and 5 years of neurology. This is about 10 years after graduation. Whereas in US, neurology training is straightforward 4 years. However, I do realize that some specialties are equally longer in US as well. 2. In UK, many people work in non training service provision jobs rather than training jobs. In US everyone has to undergo residency. 3. Salaries for residents are almost same in both countries. 4. Compensation in US is many folds higher than in the UK for consultants. Taxes are way higher in UK. 5. Hands down, US training is the best in the world. Specially in large university hospitals. Even though I have done MRCP UK and midway through my journey, I am taking USMLE now so I could earn better once I become consultant or attending. Personally, I would choose US any day.

[@HomeCooksUS]

Is it true that you go straight into medical school from high school in the UK? That might offset your first point.

[@jaysaini955]

Thanks homie

[@sebastianheine378]

Would be nice to see a USA vs Canada video. Considering how close the countries are geographically they have very different systems, especially for IMG/FMG

[@aweisen1]

Oh yeah, especially after this video since the Cans seems to have both systems of the US and UK in place.

[@kevinjubbalmd]

We have a video about US vs CAN on the Med School Insiders channel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d33Ne2mmpLV0jaM

[@sebastianheine378]

@@kevinjubbalmd thanks Dr. Jubbal. You the man

[@dhruvock271717]

In my career I have cleared both UK exams(MRCP UK +Neurology SCE- all First attempt) and finished all parts of USMLE(Step1+Step2+Step3- First attempt). I will say there is a vast difference in study approach and both are unique in so many ways. Especially Step3 USMLE is heavy biostatistics based exam on day 1 and PACES is a pure clinical skill exam on real patients with active illness. MRCP-UK according to me the best Internal Medicine exam in the world which is adequately standardized to the level of PG IM Training however USMLE is overall the toughest exam in the world due to the sheer intensity of exam stipulation such as number of questions in each single hour section of the exam as well as the length of clinical vignettes hence time plays a key role in solving a USMLE question. USMLE feels quite tough to pass or score high per se especially at later stages of career when one is already at a level of a resident or registrar as it is difficult to conceptualise other specialties like OBGY/Gynae or Peds whereas MRCP-UK can still be cleared if an individual has a very good knowledge of internal medicine specialties. I hope some basic facts could help vloggers and bloggers reading my comment post and best of luck to anyone endeavouring the hard journey of medicine.

[@LamyBlue]

You can’t compare USMLE to MRCP. MRCP should be compared to ABIM (American board of Internal Medicine) exams; while USMLE should be compared to PLAB/UKMLA. But I agree that PACES is a strong clinical skills exam for Internal Medicine.

[@dhruvock271717]

@@LamyBlue I don’t agree with your comparison. PLAB is an absolutely basic exam and it’s not even in contention. Despite MRCP being a PG exam , the timeline it takes to clear USMLE is greater than MRCP. MRCP is 3 exams but USMLE is total 5 exams with Step3 itself being 2day exam. To appear in any of the American board exam, a person needs to be residency where as this doesn’t apply to MRCP. Both USMLE and MRCP are unique in their own ways and respectable exams of high caliber.

[@TechSush]

As an orthopaedic registrar (resident) training in the UK, there are vast differences between the two training schemes which haven't been fully explored in the video. Here are some of the key ones: 1. UK training is much longer in general - 5-6 years medical school, 2 years foundation programme, 5-8 years for most hospital based specialties or 3 years for general practice (family medicine). This is if you run straight through without any breaks which is very uncommon today. 2. UK trainees work on average fewer hours that their american counterparts. All training and non-training jobs are restricted to an average working week of 48 hours with a maximum of 72 hours in 1 week. This is different to most programmes in the US especially the surgical ones. 3. UK trainees are paid better per hour than the US residents, but end up with much less compensation as a full trained consultant (attending) with a starting salary that is fixed at 90-100000 pounds for all specialties. 4. UK training programmes are in general less competitive than american residency programmes and hence, are in general more accessible to IMGs. Many IMGs in the UK match into competitive specialties such as plastics/ENT/ortho etc. when they would have had difficulty in the US with the same portfolio. 5. UK healthcare is free to all under the National Health Service. There is much less dealing with insurance companies and issues surrounding funding. 6. UK training programmes have far more checkpoints which block progression. After foundation, doctors apply for core training and then again for further subspecialty training through a competitive national selection process. It is common for people to fail to progress at these checkpoints and need to take extra time out of training. Very few programmes in the UK are run through such as radiology, opthalmology, neurosurgery and cardiothoracics.

[@feastybeasties]

Hi! Enjoyed this video! At 11:26 I will say that I think some family med residency’s can get up to the 80 hours a week Esp in those that are unopposed. Additionally, there are a lot of variations between family med residency programs with how inpatient and ob heavy they are with those being programs a lot more intense hours wise.

[@aweisen1]

Training in the UK seems to allow a better/easier lifestyle than US residents. Experiencing a 3rd year of med school in the NHS, it was always joked about how medicine in the UK is on banker's hours, nobody gets sick on the weekends or after 5pm. Now, this is offset by having several extra years of training. It's 5-10 years of "residency" in the UK to be "fully trained" and become a consultant "attending." The UK timeline looks like this: 16-18 go to college (take A-Level exams to prep for university) Think of this like junior and senior year of high school and community college in the US. 18-23 go to Med school, 5 years, a medical degree is a bachelor's degree, MBBS, in the UK, it's not a doctorate level degree, MD. 23-25 2 years of Foundation Training in the NHS. This time period is like 4th year med school and intern year in the US. 25 to 28-34 it takes 3-8years of specialty or core training to become fully qualified, a consultant. (I await the comment about how one is fully qualified after medschool/fy1, no... you aren't) 28-48 one is then a consultant. It takes 14 years as a consultant to finally hit the top pay rating as a consultant which is like 130k (Just changed in a new contract from 19 years and yes there are several other/additional forms of pay that consultants get, 130k is base)

[@crepiskopos]

An MBBS is equivalent to an MD, despite the nomenclature. To say it’s not a doctorate level degree is really misleading. Medical school in the UK/Europe is broadly similar to the accelerated BS/MD programs that exist in the US.

[@aweisen1]

@@crepiskopos an MBBS literally means Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery. So, in literal, actual reality, it is not a doctorate degree.

[@crepiskopos]

I mean, if you want to get really technical, an MD isn’t a true doctorate either since it doesn’t require original work or a thesis. The MBBS and MD are both ‘undergraduate’ medical degrees in the sense that they aren’t terminal research degrees. Both are level 7 (master’s equivalent) qualifications under international law. Both degrees are functionally equivalent to each other. There are historical reasons each degree is titled the way it is, but MBBS graduates are granted the title ‘Dr’ and are fully qualified physicians in the same way that US MD graduates are.

[@aweisen1]

@@crepiskopos Ok, I see your confusion in this topic. There are two types of doctorate degrees, professional and philosophical. A professional doctorate focuses on the application of existing knowledge, research and practices to real world issues. It's about applying knowledge, practically. A philosophical doctorate focuses on the expansion of knowledge, researching further, trying to analyze data to confirm, as close as possible, what is reality. It's about gaining new knowledge. Can the two blend together? Yes, at times, for sure and the above are the foundations of each type of doctorate. An MD stands for a Doctorate of Medicine, it is a professional doctorate. It is a post graduate degree of a doctoral level. Which is an RQF Level 8 in the UK,. It's not a level 7 (Master's.) Although, RQF level doesn't really matter for immigration decision purposes to the UK as a US MD since it's actually one's GMC accreditation that matters for a US MD to practice in the UK and thus be allowed immigration. MBBS stands for Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery. It is typically coined as an undergraduate degree, meaning that it is the first degree obtained after high school or College/A levels in the UK. An MBBS is a professional undergraduate degree, which the UK government gives an RQF level 7, as can be seen in the UK Referencing the Qualifications Frameworks of England and Northern Ireland to the European Qualifications Framework 2019 on page 37 This point is really not up for debate. I do agree that the endgame is essentially the same, becoming a Medical Doctor. But no, a US MD is not an undergrad degree, it is a doctorate level 8.

[@crepiskopos]

@@aweisen1 Mate, I’m not confused. A US MD is equivalent to an MBBS and is a level 7 on the NQF. Keep in mind that in the UK/Commonwealth we also give out MD degrees which are broadly equivalent to a PhD and *are* level 8 on the NQF. This is why it’s confusing.

[@kainhyde8328]

Great video as always! However, you mentioned at the beginning that there are lots of UK medical graduates going to the US. Is this from anecdotal data or statistics? Just tryijg to gauge the competitioj lol

[@Montadar-AlHilali]

I want to get General surgery residency as an FMG, it’s need research for 1 and half year and good Step2 score and some connections you get during research period to get this residency. I think it’s worth all this hard work.

[@pasoking2483]

I would say it depends on the specialty. Surgical is good to go either way. UK is a bit more balanced time wise and thus gives more time for study and academia. And the requirements to enter those programs already make sure the candidates are high quality. All of the years are creating a strong baseline for patient assessment and care.The training length can be a benefit since with more exposure and knowledge, by the time you are a consultant, you are more comfortable with the patient care and procedures. US is still quite streamlined with better pay and treatment.

[@DennisBolanos]

13:17 “Medical playground.” 🤣

[@mirandantorinkansah6921]

12:02 in the UK, we are not paid extra hours if we work overtime in training. That’s slightly incorrect. You can do something called exception reporting but that’s up to you to fill it out, each time you work extra. It’s not an automatic overtime rate that gets applied to your monthly salary.

[@chandanpreetrao9481]

Please do a comparison between the us and Australia training!!

[@momohfavour1088]

Good day doctor 🎉

[@Bastakology]

I agree with 🇬🇧 dude on the dating before marraige as a person who is still deciding specialty and thankful that i didn't have to rush

[@theinsomniacmedic]

If you are talking purely on entry for IMGs; The UK has limited spots for IMGs, while the USA has a significantly more number of IMGs matching into residency programs due to their size. The "residency" IMG acceptance rate is reflected in this - in the UK its about 14% for their Foundation Programme, in the USA its around 37% for their MATCH to residency, so statistically its harder for IMGs in the UK to get a training spot. The USA has more applicants as well ~ 7,000 vs 12,000 (2023).

[@victorixx4861]

But you also have to consider people who match straight into specialty training. Eg. people who have completed an intern year in their country can bypass the foundation years. Some may choose to complete a standalone F2 post to help transition. Overall, I think in think in the UK because of the shape of postgraduate training, it’s easier to get in but it’s a lot harder to qualify as a consultant 🥲

[@chrismcgowan5180]

13:26 Being a Junior doctor in the UK is not a cross b/w 4th year and intern year necessarily. I am doing a transplant fellowship 10 years after completing my medical degree and am still a 'junior' doctor. If I quit now I'd say I could call myself a former surgeon

[@aweisen1]

Kevin meant to say foundation training rather than Junior Doctor. UK FY1/2 is most comparable to 4th year med school and PGY1(Intern) in the US. When you become a CT1+ or ST1+, then you are on the level of a PGY2+ or 2nd year+ resident. Some consider F1's to be like 4th year/intern in the US. However, having seen it first hand, I think both years of foundation training are like 4th year to intern year in the US. (Yes, I'm aware some do three years of foundation training.)

[@oluwatobifaniyi]

I would say FY1/2 is analogous to PGY1 but not 4th year medical school because 4th years are still students. Fy1 Doctors are graduates with a medical license and pateirn responsibility

[@aweisen1]

@@oluwatobifaniyi Well, there isn't a hard set rule or delineation. Of the numerous sources I've seen, heard and read, and experienced all consider the acumen of Foundation doctors to be somewhere in the range of a US 4th student and an intern.

[@crepiskopos]

Having firsthand knowledge of both systems, I would say foundation doctors are more like combined medical/surgical interns than US 4th years. They have a medical license, see patients independently, and prescribe drugs - the responsibility is much higher than it is for a medical student.

[@aweisen1]

@@crepiskopos you, like others, seem to not account for knowledge, experience and confidence in my comparison. In my experience and many others, UK FYs seem to be like US 4th/Interns. The best reason I’ve come up with is a bit of the age, experience and general culture differences.

[@akomeahweapon3912]

❤from Ghana 🇬🇭

[@chowsta168]

That's a good looking watch! Is that a black sub?

[@crepiskopos]

UK emergency physician here. I think it’s worth saying that there is a different philosophy to UK medical training in that it is more pyramidal - your two foundation years after finishing medical school are designed to be like a combined medical/surgical internship, which gives you a broader knowledge and experience base than your typical doctor in the US who specialises earlier. The UK also offers a lot more flexibility in terms of being able to work at resident (senior house officer) or fellow/junior attending (registrar) level outside of a formal training pathway, which can be good for those unsure of what specialty to pursue, those wanting to switch specialties, or even those wanting to develop a special interest in something. There are of course downsides to this - it does mean that training is a lot longer than it is in the US and also that (unless you are in a run-through specialty) you have to re-apply for a training post as you complete your time at each tier (senior house officer and then registrar). It also wastes a lot of time if you already know what you want to do.

[@muhammadakoodie5817]

Please do South Africa

[@MrMaloty]

The UK seems like a great opportunity for unmatched applicants.

[@Rainbowofthefallen]

Just commenting for the algorithm 🤍

[@katienolan9266]

Training in Ireland is so different to the US, in my class we had many who matched back to the US & Canada But overall, it's quite different. We don't 'pick' or 'choose' our specialty until many years post medical school. We are forced to fulfill time in both medicine and surgery, regardless of our interest, even as doctors. I don't think that is a bad thing though, although we are unable to earn as much, by comparison to the NHS, in Ireland you are paid for the hours you work, and overall I think we meet a much more varied patient set, which is always helpful - when we do specialise I think we have had ample opportunity to think of what we are actually interested in medically or surgically - can anyone know in MS4 exactly what they want??!

[@israelvaldezarmenify]

the bad thing of the us system is that you waste a lot of years, many many years 4 pre med, 1 doing shadowing or something like that for curriculum, befoore you get into med school, in mexico we do 7 years of pure med school, starting at 18 and residency is done by a nationwide test, which we can do right away after med school or we can work as a generalist and save or pay debt or anything before commiting to something

[@dhillonb9036]

i dont understand why medical students not from the usa find the usmle so hard? The students in other countries have upwards of 4 years to study while in the usa everything is crammed in the first two years. You would think imgs should find the usmle easy?

[@tweetybird1480]

A lot of it is based on time. IMGs are usually doing these for the most part, years after they learned them. Someone might people are doing there Step 1, 6 years after they started working. Most US Grads wouldn't have it easy to do Step 1 after they had been working for 6 years. Because some things, if you're not actively learning them, you remember the general concept, but not the details needed for passing the exam. Maybe a surgeon will remember more anatomy detail than a Pediatrian.

[@tweetybird1480]

I'll add to that, that some IMGs are not doing the exam in the same style (MCQs but they are used to essays, which are way easier), or in their primary language.

[@josephpinto630]

Silly reasons to come to UK instead of US. You have limited options in US so this doc is just saying things to make himself feel better. LOL

[@Jay-pg5hw]

I’m from the UK and now in the US doing IM residency. It’s very interesting to see these comparisons but most of the time those that make it out to be a choice between UK and US never really had the choice. US is far superior to the UK as a doctor and everyone knows this. The application stats speak for themselves

[@Joongsu]

this guy probably didn't make it to the US and made a video pretending like he wanted to go to the UK.

[@afolaluvincent8952]

That is a really dumb thing to say. Just because you are dumb you are projecting on him.

[@yurineri2227]

Or he just didn't want to work in the US lmao, stop acting like you know everything the guy secretly thinks bro

[@AJXO-30]

lol, I’m in MS and I’m choosing the UK over the US. Even prior to entering, it was 60/40 for me. 60% wanted to go to the UK. People outside the US are fine with choosing both because it’s a financial step up from their country of origin. So it doesn’t really matter to them. Also, the path to the UK is much easier. Prior to COVID, students had to pay like 5,000 US dollars just to fulfill application requirements. Also, you have to pay a lot of money just to fly to different interview. If you’re a US student or US IMG it’s more wise to choose US over UK. For everyone else, it doesn’t matter that much

[@Kenanalasadi8989]

nah, it is almost impossible to get into surgical specialty as a foreign student in USA, and a lot of people out there wont trade 3 years shortcut in their life's with living in a specialty they don't like

[@Joongsu]

@@AJXO-30 you didn't "choose" the UK, you just simply didn't get into the US one.

[@PurpleRainLovee]

Been a long time fan but this video is so strange to me. It sounds like you're just bullying the other guy instead of providing an objective comparison

[@aweisen1]

Nah, I think you need to watch it again without that mindset, I think you may have misinterpreted several aspects of the video.

[@DiLLZGFX]

I agree, I don't think he's got the facts rights. Dr Soni studied in the UK, went to Cornell to do plastics and came back to the UK because he said UK was better.

[@kevinjubbalmd]

Sorry to hear you got that impression. Doctor A has great insights on this topic. I reacted to another one of his videos a couple of months ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKCYpn54np2Smdk