Useless PhDs: How to Spot Them and Choose Wisely

In this video share with you examples of useless PhD is and how to spot them and choose your PhD wisely.
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▼ ▽ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - introduction
0:49 - history
2:32 - humanities
4:35 - Life sciences
6:51 - choosing a worthwhile PhD
10:01 - Wrapping up
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[@OntologyofValue]

Fantastic material! One thing I'd like to add to the picture: don't get into the tunnel vision trap. The fact that some professions are in high demand now doesn't mean that they will be in high demand in 5 years when you are about to finish your PhD. You will need to observe the job market all the way through and add the relevant skills to your portfolio down the line.

[@jaydunstan1618]

Excellent critique.

[@denisek7]

Exactly ^^

[@xtraluv4u]

I want a PhD because I'm convinced I look better with a beanie on my head instead of a mortar board. This that wrong?

[@charliebrewer9374]

Getting to wear the pillow hat is a non zero part of my motivation for pursuing a PhD

[@francishunt562]

Might be a good idea to avoid mentioning that in your interview.

[@msab657]

It’s definitely not wrong, because when you think about it, life is all about the regalia!

[@perfectallycromulent]

if you're making decisions based on hats, there are plenty better than the beanie or the mortar board.

[@Archimedes616]

Beefeater tams are pretty cool as well.

[@perelmanych]

PhD in Economics here. I was quite successful in studies, but not so much in further research. Taking into account my experience and experience of my classmates I can tell you one thing for sure: go to PhD only if you have internal feeling that you have to do it, otherwise it will be pain, frustration and loss of time.

[@AleXander-eo3iz]

A PhD in economics sounds kinda interesting. Was there any practical knowledge that you learned on the way that an average American citizen could benefit from? And how has it changed your political views?

[@andso7068]

@@AleXander-eo3iz Economics is definitely very interesting but the perspective that one forms during their budding phase depends more or less on the school of thought that their university subscribes to. Be it radical or classical, your university will paint the picture the way that THEY want you to see, not necessarily objectively.

[@enginerdy]

@@andso7068so, Chicago School all the way down?

[@sherylkatz8827]

I did an MA degree in history and went to law school. About 10 years out of school I went to an American Historical Association convention with a friend who got her phd. Her friends were moaning about their frustrating career paths. But they were ragging on me for going to law school saying they could have done the “easy thing” and gone to law school. I never regretted going to law school. While I did practice law a number of years I also found a lot of interesting and well-paying opportunities with a law degree. Still my friend who I went to the convention with had a great career as a professor as did one of my colleagues who followed the masters with a PhD. For me I realized that I would not enjoy being an academic even if history professor opportunities were plentiful. From time to time I have considered pursuing a PhD for the challenge. My 72 year old cousin is working on her PhD.

[@alexanderhickey1427]

The academic labor market can only function if enough people go into industry

[@looool8250]

Law school is not easy from what I hear 😭

[@zataishasims9732]

@@looool8250 its not...at all

[@danii_maciasr9866]

Honestly, I didn't know people were getting into PhDs for money or for a job. If you think about it that way, none are worth it at all.

[@anatreg4967]

Why pursue a Ph.D. if it entails investing a significant amount of time only to end up jobless and financially strained?

[@danii_maciasr9866]

@@anatreg4967 I'm not saying the job is worthless, but I strongly believe that doing a PhD just for / mainly for money or a job is a bad idea. It is a really hard journey and the pursuit of knowledge should be, I believe, the main motivation for these students if they want to succeed. Nobody needs a PhD to get a decent job.

[@perfectallycromulent]

check the stats for engineering phds.

[@JAlexanderCurtis]

If you want to go into Academia as a career than PhDs are required for tenured positions and will help significantly. But in the industry, you’re right there’s very marginal gains for a PhD over a Masters. If you’re only going for career advancement and ROI then stop at Masters. PhDs are really for personal growth and passion (with a few exceptions of course).

[@Omar-kl3xp]

Technically yes you are right ,if you go for money a bachelors or master is the way to go for most career as by the time you will finish your PHD those that have done their bachelor or master are most likely earning more then you and they will have more industry experience,so it isn’t about the money

[@Erintii]

Very good points. I think it is always crucial to see if PhD skills are transferable to other field. Just in case no job is available in Academia

[@meierlinksd4996]

Yes, to add on to a comment you made on the bar graph with PhDs, timing is important. At least, if you are going for academia, you need to have a job in hand before you complete your thesis, let alone your defense. I remember at least another person said something like, "Degrees go stale." That is, once you are past your first few years, it gets extremely hard to find any sort of academic job, since you are competing with people who have been on the market longer in addition to newly minted candidates that came after you. That reminds me of something, Dr. Stapleton. I am not sure you have covered this topic or not (since it is a little morbid). But ... I have read news stories of PhDs that were adjuncts or postdocs that died early or stayed on into even his or her 70s and dying from poverty. They literally worked themselves to death, which included having terrible health due to only being to survive on unhealthy, cheap foods. To me, that idea by itself should give people pause before choosing to go into academia. It is just ... more risks than you think, that are legitimate problems.

[@alexanderberyozkin]

I chose a very unique PhD where I combined Depth Psychology, Cross-Cultural Studies, and Queer Migration Studies. It is not a classical Clinical Psychology, and I completely understand the risks in the academic market, but I like my topic and build my career path. Yes, we live in a neoliberal academia with quantitative achievements and pragmatic attitudes; however, there should also be a space for passion and open horizons. It is import to find a balance.

[@debkass9718]

Thank you I love your content it gives me a sense to decide my future could you please make a video on the rights to the research and findings especially if patents are involved on a phd level

[@theaussiewhinger]

I love this channel, and Andy as well, but this really highlights that we desperately need more channels for the non-natural sciences as well. Closest thing would be the channels by Tara Brabazon, a Professor and Dean of Graduate Research in Australia. My fellow PhD graduates from political science, sociology etc work as consultants to the WB, ADB, as researchers in major policy think tanks, as policy-makers for government, and as successful academics in higher education. Not to mention statistically, in Australia at least, employment outcomes for non-STEM fields shortly after even undergraduate degree graduation are actually higher. This really flies in the face of the baseless rhetoric against, and assault on, non-STEM fields and higher education more broadly, actually.

[@princessrashidart]

Amazing work. Thank you for what you do.

[@johnthecrouton]

Hi, Andy! I recently found your channel and I really find your videos interesting. Keep up the great work!

[@Dark_Lord_Mr_B]

I'm looking at history since that is what I am currently working towards teaching. Once I've had about 8 years of teaching experience I have the option to consider entering a university to teach others the job of teaching but with a History PhD i can also equip myself to teach undergraduate and post-graduate level history which would make me somewhat useful and if the opportunity doesn't arise I'll look into moving towards a head of department in the school.

[@henrytang2203]

My understanding was that a PhD was a lottery ticket. No guarantees of any career in academia or a high paying job but there is a small chance. It's a rather expensive ticket costing you 4 years of life.

[@baltasarnoreno5973]

I did my PhD in the areas of agronomy and genetics. All of my peers more or less walked into jobs. Lots of opportunities outside academia. It is almost a prerequisite now to have a PhD if you want to go into plant breeding. Very specialised, well paid and very stable.

[@vedmaburuxova68]

lmao, just grab some plants and start breeding them

[@baltasarnoreno5973]

@@vedmaburuxova68 Thans for displaying your ignorance in public. It's always nice to know that I'm speaking to a cretin.

[@commongarden3817]

Especially in the cannabis space.

[@NN-br2xh]

I'm literally considering applying for a PhD and this came up on my feed. Thanks!

[@edgarrodriguez8973]

To end up in a psychiatric ward hahaha, so funny Dr Andrew. As usual your videos are pure gold!

[@Mr.Edd3905]

Dear Andy, being someone who is writing a proposal for a PhD in literature, I'll just say that I knew you would mention Humanities. We already know it's not a big market for jobs etc. I am just applying out of the enjoyment of studying at University Sounds stupid, but there you go.

[@singingstar999]

Same! I’m starting my film and television PhD in a month, all because I love my subject. Good luck to you and enjoy as much as you can! 😊

[@TankMoonBreeze]

PhD in literature here as well! And I am working as a lecturer at the same time. What I would advise those who are going into this field is that don’t do it for a job, but bear in mind it may lead you to a job. Usually those who choose to do a literature phd are truly driven students who focus on the study itself. The very attitude can be the most valuable asset if you are thinking about getting a job. Moreover, although it’s not a big market, the market is still there. Many of the literature phd graduates here in Taiwan still get a relevant job (though we may have invested more than we can make shortly after graduation) in universities as long as the resume shows that one has been closely engaged in the field. A phd in literature may not be lucrative, but certainly it is not that miserable. Also, the training from the programme itself is truly worth the time and effort. Good luck to all who are working hard towards their goals!

[@ObelixBarbatus]

I have a Ph.D in modern English drama, became an academic BUT also took business courses and project management and so on. When the opportunity presented itself I joined a company and eventually became its CEO. I did not relinquish my academic ties; I have read a number of papers nationally and internationally - not on literature but on business related topics. Here's the thing: most candidates from other disciplines do not have the command of the language and we, literature graduates have a huge edge. In brief: enjoy your studies, relish these times. You have the discipline to succeed anywhere.

[@Mr.Edd3905]

@@singingstar999 Wow! How wonderful. I am jealous. If my proposal is a success, I will let you know. I honestly have no idea what my chances are. I will just try my best and if I'm not accepted, then I will see where I can take my interest somewhere else. Wishing you all the best.

[@Mr.Edd3905]

@@TankMoonBreeze Lovely comment! So much I could say on these points too. I think also having a degree that not as many people have (or rather specialising in a less common field) is not something to be looked down on. It's a positive in my opinion. Best of luck! If you are curious, I have a Literature-themed KZbin channel - Sem Priest Rhetoric.

[@Devissee]

Interesting perspective! I am glad you employed flexible language!

[@omegab4856]

Thank you so much for another sharp take on the career prospects of advanced education ! I would like to say that compared to a Ph.D., professional degrees are very expensive. I also think that the demand for MDs and Pharmacologists may not stay as high as it is now, which makes the investment aspect of earning a professional degree somewhat uncertain. On the other hand, a Ph.D. at least in the sciences is affordable than a Master's degree. However, the starting salary for both is almost comparable, despite the argument that a Ph.D. will pay more in the long run.

[@Hyperventilacion]

I think there is an underlying class dynamic that I'm surprised Andy didn't mention. It's not secret knowledge that professional degrees have better outcome professionally, but the cost is so high, in my lab most people who did research did it yes because we liked it, but also because we needed funds, paying was out of the question for most of us, so getting a degree that you have to pay just to get an internship and a good position landed up was kind of a class issue, we could not afford it. I only did a master's and I think I'll save money for a professional degree in some years, thankfully I landed a good paying job, but I was on track of being underemployed as it is harder to sell yourself as a research because people don't really know what I we do.

[@llbodlearning8591]

Your analysis is Brilliant. Industrial application is necessary for any research.

[@strayorion2031]

As a life science future grad student, my proyects heavily involve analytical chemistry methods (HPLC, AAS, Mass Spectrometry,etc) because these are higly searched for in industry, either as a quality control in some industries or in generic drug evaluation

[@sempriestrhetoric3843]

People love to post messages on YT vids about University students saying how degrees are worthless and no-one cares about humanities etc. But you can say the same about anything in life. What regular jobs are truly worth something? Everything is a scam if you look closely enough or are cynical enough. Just do whatever you feel like doing, whatever truly interests you, and do it for sincere reasons. I would say that doing a degree (PhD or whatever) because you want a job is less sincere than doing it because you like the subject you are studying.

[@TankMoonBreeze]

I like Andy’s channel, too. But I guess we do need a channel for humanities PhDs to clarify a few myths that are clearly from STEM PhDs, and, to present the actual hopeful aspects in this field.

[@utubewatcher806]

Art History degree, I am guessing?

[@TankMoonBreeze]

@@utubewatcher806 I’m sure there are a few art history majors here.

[@sempriestrhetoric3843]

@@utubewatcher806 If I could do a second BA, I would do this topic. I study English, specialising more in literature.

[@AlphaNumeric123]

I think he’s addressing people exactly like you. When you’re young, time is abstract. When you’re in your mid-30’s struggling to afford rent on a dingy tiny flat, you’ll start wishing you didn’t waste 5-7 years of your life on an English degree. Especially when you see others who spent those same years actually making an income marrying beautiful spouses and making hundreds of thousands more than you just so you can feel an unfounded sense of nobility. Young people are very bad at appreciating lost opportunity costs and are very idealistic, before become jaded Marxists who are economically illiterate when they ultimately end up in a menial job lol

[@theaspiringpsychologist]

Hi Andy, I love the channel. It was a big help to me when applying for a PhD and in helping me navigate my first year. This is something people really need to consider in psychology, luckily, I was aware of this before doing my PhD and my intention isn’t to go into academia. I attended a talk by my university the other day and the stats are even worse than I imagined. Of those that apply for a postgrad in psychology, there is a 5% success rate in the UK! I think a huge problem is the over production of PhD’s. It makes so much more sense for them to pay someone £16,500 a year for three years than having to pay a postdoc £30-35,000 a year with the added bonus of getting to use PhD’s as free teaching support. Even when planning out my PhD with my supervisor, there is an unwillingness to look too far into the development of the intervention. I should explain, my PhD is the trial and development of a psychological resilience-based intervention to reduce offending behaviour in young offenders, which was developed by a previous PhD student. When I mentioned some other possible development areas, my supervisor said “I wouldn’t worry too much about that, that will be for the next PhD student to worry about”. If you want to continue in academia in your area of research, you can only force their hand by applying for grants to fund this yourself. I wanted to make a point about the professional doctorate, as I think the points where you mentioned life sciences may actually be psychology. Although this is a much better paid option, this is again competitive and may actually be worse that academia. In the UK the path to be a clinical psychologist is a 3 year NHS funded course, which includes placements within the NHS and a decent salary. Technically you only need a 2.1 or higher in a bachelors degree and a years experience as an assistant psychologist to apply, but the competition means this probably isn’t a true reflection. My university is one of the smaller schools with 13 funded places each year, a professor on the programme told me that they usually get 400 to 500 applications for these spaces. This year the problem seems to be getting worse, a course with 50 places had in excess of 1100 applicants. This means many, like me, are pursuing PhD’s before applying for this course. I can only speak for psychology in the UK, but I think we may soon reach a point where anything past a bachelor's is almost worthless (although some very specific masters may be helpful).

[@bhangrafan4480]

As someone who worked in science teaching in the UK for nearly 30 years I was endlessly frustrated by the useless nature of careers advice and careers advisors. Basically telling someone who has just completed a History degree that they would be better off doing an Economics or Physics PhD is really of no help. The problem is that decisions made very early on in education grossly restrict the choices later on, but young people making these original decisions are not sufficiently knowlegeable to make an informed choice. The result is that many, if not most students, simply drift into a degree based on something they studied at school because they 'know' it, without looking any further. There are all sorts of degree subjects which university applicants have never been exposed to at school, but I think in most cases these are not even looked at. All efforts as a teacher to address this problem are frustrated by the vested interests in the education system who simply want to corral young people and feed them in their own direction as a source of funding. When I tried to arrange for one of my tutor groups to go and get advice and information on any careers they might be contemplating BEFORE choosing their level 3 (A Level equivalent) courses, they were all sent packing by the careers service and told to come back when they had finished their level three courses. Once when I advised young people that going to university was not the only way to develop a career, and that there were other avenues such as on the job training opportunities, apprenticeships etc., I was called in by my line manager and warned that unless I retracted this and promised never to say such things again my probationary year would not be extended and I would have to look for a job elsewhere. TBH I found working in the British education system a lot of S**T run by entirely self-serving W****S. I don't know how I held on so long before taking early retirement.

[@aegisofhonor]

it really matters what you are trying to do with your PhD, you can always teach at University with your PhD, you can also do research, go into school administration, or a plethora of other things. The fact you have a PhD opens a lot of doors on the job market not open to people without them, no matter how "bad" or "worthless" the PhD is. Many schools either require or strongly look for people with PhDs for high level positions such principle or school superintendent.

[@tuckvison]

yes but at the cost of the opportunity cost of the several years you paid out of your lifespan to get the phd

[@pensieri2596]

I undertook a PhD in humanities alongside a full-time job. Thank god I could manage to write up my thesis. defended my viva, within a 5 year timeframe. It was not easy, but as you rightly said, some PhDs may be more valuable than the others in terms of employment.

[@ThefamousMrcroissant]

Incredible job finishing it in 5 years alongside a full-time job. Must have sprouted quite a few grey hairs over the course of it.

[@amandafuriasse4683]

Library science is in incredibly high demand right now, particularly those with experience in the digital humanities, so many businesses need to digitize material documents, artifacts, etc

[@benwilliams3698]

Wait really? I’m doing a Masters in Cultural Studies and it has a lot of involvement in archiving material.

[@SamuelWebster]

I know I'm subscribed but... scary that I searched 'humanities phd' on KZbin and found this video.

[@Edward-zw9ld]

Great channel. KUDOS

[@sherylkatz8827]

After an MA in history I went to law school. Even in 1974 a PhD in history was a dead end. I worked a a lawyer for only half of my career but options with a JD are nearly limitless.

[@IncHavoc]

Andy where is that chart on the US bureau of labor statistics website? I've searched all over it but can't find what you have up on screen and since the address bar is cut in the footage I can't see your url.

[@notdariamorgendorffer8940]

It's takes a certain privilege to call any degree useless, sometime ago some of us couldn't get a degree, some still can't, but that's another topic. If you finished a PhD but are unable to present any skills you developed that would be desirable for some other fields then have you really finished a PhD?

[@sparral]

I think you misunderstood the interpretation of the "useless" PhD. Its actually more in the sense that, for the job market, its more profitable to seek a person with a Msc + few years of experience rather than a recent graduate PhD. If you allready have the necessary academic knowledges and skills, why bother pursuing a PhD?

[@youtuber_journalism]

My realistic PhD end goal is to become a youtuber. It has far more job security compared to working in academia.

[@funduclasses3211]

i was good in studies, did very well in corporate life..then i decided to go for a phd and my life changed and earnings dipped massively.

[@lizbamalia5335]

Thank you for this video, which, honestly, came just at the right time for me! I'm currently finishing my masters in the humanities and have been thinking about doing a PhD, but I'm still undecided. I know for certain that a career in academia isn't my cup of tea, but at the same time I was hoping that a PhD might give me a slight advantage when it comes to finding a job in the 'cultural field' (e.g. leading positions in museums etc), which is why I really appreciated the data sources you recommended. I find that here in Germany, especially in administration, many people with PhDs are hired though I am unsure whether it is because people with a PhD are better qualified or whether they are getting these positions because there's no better place for them to go... (I'm suspecting the latter.) Over the past few years, I've considered going into marketing managment/pr stuff once I'm graduated, which is a field completely unrelated to my studies and would make a PhD very unnecessary. However, I don't want to rob myself of the chance of ever working in an area closer related to what I studied or 'climbing the corporate ladder' for which a PhD still seems to be quite useful around here. (Plus, I really enjoy in-depth research and the thought of getting to concentrate on a single subject for a few years sounds brilliant on most days and only a little daunting on the others.) My current plans alternate between taking a one or two year break before pursuing a PhD (and gaining some other skills in the meantime) or trying to find a part-time job outside of academia that would let me pursue a PhD at the same time. (I know that at my university getting a scholarship (as opposed to an actual paid PhD position, which are very rare) also wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not sure whether I could handle just researching for two or three years without some other job to get my mind off it.) Overall, your video was an excellent reminder that in the end, a PhD might not be beneficial after all, especially in the humanities.

[@MarcoGitto]

Thanks for the content you post. I always find them very full of value. What would you recommend for a college student who is close to graduating and would like to get in a PhD program, but has no publications yet?

[@nicholasmckenna8614]

Can you do a video on how to prepare for a PhD program during a gap year?

[@Luksoropoulos]

Someone who hasn't studied humanities (what is a very idealistic choice from the very beginning) telling the humanities folks: "Hey, from a utilitarian stand point this path seems useless". Tell us something new. Sorry, but from how you speak about it, one can tell you clearly have no clue why people choose the humanities at all.

[@brileywells1628]

I was super gung-go on getting a history PhD for a long time. Now that I’m in grad school and I’ve been doing more research, my doubts are growing.

[@Edward-zw9ld]

Interesting vid. KUDOS

[@enockhavyarimana9655]

Andy, doing god's work. a national hero and OG guiding these young ones through the system.

[@Xwodsarecool]

What you think about social workers though? I’ve seen social workers can actually make a pretty decent amount of money and have the possibility many different career paths with a social work degree?

[@rayzzamrtnz]

Can you share the link to the database you were using? Cheers!

[@bibrakc]

This video is very Margaret Thatcher

[@fuad000100]

😂

[@MrJiwer]

I have been following your channel for a while. In the process, I became, out of the blue, a professor, and I am now terrified to be an inept advisor. Please publish a video to help us, the few followers who got a position, for us to avoid becoming well cited idiots.

[@blizzart9191]

You're trolling, right? How do you get a professor" out of the blue", and how do you become one with this level of insecurity? I think Profs or Dr's. should be maturing strongly through the process of getting to it and should be checked also on their character before getting such a title... but I forgot: it is an asskisser system with a bunch of hypocrits everywhere, Therefore nothing special anymore. It's not about quality of work or real values anymore, it's about min maxing your finessing skills. I think that's also why more women go into academia nowadays. Economics and education are in a really bad situation rn, and it seems to get even worse. I think it's time for the ai era. Humanity kills its humanity anyways.

[@noonehere_kasut]

At least in my experience a significant portion of my peers who do a bachelor's in life sciences do it as a stepping stone for medical school. I know some who do manage to get related scientist/technician/lab jobs, but also plenty of anecdotes of those who end up in unrelated fields - Not sure how the statistics account for that, if they do. As far as I know in the US, professional degrees aren't really a thing for the life sciences, unless if you're talking about certifications in healthcare fields like nursing or MLS, or how some people go on to law school or to get an MBA after their life science bachelor's. And if someone wants to go into cutting-edge life science research and not hit a glass ceiling, a PhD is pretty much necessary. How useful the PhD will be would still depend on what specific experience the person gained as you mentioned.

[@carolinemasson7172]

Literally trying to get a history PhD in the next couple of years so this is going to be fun....

[@RRKohutek]

I'm not sure what you mean by "Professional Degree" in either the Life Sciences or Humanities. Everyone knows the classic professional degrees: MBA, MD, DO, JD, and DDS. Lesser known, but clearly professional degrees: MPA, MPP, MUP, MPH, MHA, M.Ed., and Ed.D. But what is a professional degree in Biology or Chemistry?

[@baltasarnoreno5973]

Agreed. I haven't heard of a professional degree either. Certainly not in sciences. I think it might be an American thing.

[@todddunn945]

In biology it is likely an MD. Chemistry might be something like pharmacology or chemical engineering.

[@Katadori09]

There’s a somewhat impolite but nonetheless very important aspect that is being left out of this conversation. Your prospects are fundamentally different if you’re in a top 5 university, or not. Or some equivalent proxy of that sentiment, like in the lab of a Nobel laureate, etc. If you’re in a top school, you’re way more likely to be able to get an academic job in your field. A PhD candidate in a field like English or History might have a small but non-zero shot of a teaching position if they are in a top school. A life sciences graduate student may be directly recruited out of a top school to go into investment banking, legal, consulting, or similar fields that set up booths and recruit students directly out of these schools. I went to such a school and we used to have companies camp out in the lobbies of our buildings, handing out swag and offering to fast track our resumés. It was not only the science buildings, but also business, etc. My wife went to the same university for a Master’s in Marketing, and her entire cohort had companies competing to recruit them on the spot. At lower ranking schools, even ones that are still top 25 let’s say, this presence simply isn’t there. The students can’t really expect to get academic positions aside from often-predatory adjunct lecturer roles, unless they really luck out. They need to rely on industry, grade school teaching, non-traditional paths, etc. to find work. That’s the unfortunate reality.

[@midlifecoding]

What advice would you offer if I wanted a PhD with the end goal of AI and how it affects Communications and Publishing? With a background in Communications and Publishing, I know it will be difficult to get into the CS programs, but I have no idea of where to go or how to make this happen.

[@johnbarryyallagher1128]

How to convince that the skill set and principals your, say biological PhD, can be used in financial analysis. And in many ways more insightful and innovative approaches. In other words financial analysis may not be rocket science but you could get a rocket scientist to work on it for u

[@VendettatheGreat]

Great video! I have recently been offered admission to 2 PhD programs in CS and I hope my career path will lead to solid work in or out of academia.

[@robertjamesstove]

I wish that this video had been around years ago. It could have saved me a lot of time and could have saved the hapless Australian taxpayer a lot of money. I finished my music history PhD (for which, incidentally, I had an admirable supervisor) right in the middle of COVID.

[@sonjak8265]

having an admirable supervisor is a great experience

[@AbuChanOfficial]

Most PhDs are useless unfortunately. experience and skills are more important

[@kyleschmitt9964]

4:19 Could you link this document or something so I can see where the public policy dots are?

[@Gromov-jj8jf]

Good rule of thumb: If your PhD requires a lot of computational modeling and software development, then it's a useful PhD and you're basically guaranteed a job with a little bit of job hunting when the economy is doing well.

[@entwurfung]

I am quite a bit disappointed by this video. But then again, it is what I expected. You can't just take single sentences out of conclusions or abstracts to base anything on that. That is just a bad representation of a paper. Then you should have looked more into what those professional degrees are. What type of careers they are. Because if PHDs and Professional Degrees are in completely different career paths, the comparison might not make much sense, because they simply appeal to different people. And you completely missed the comparison with stem fields. So in the end it was just non stem bashing. Oh, and history is part of the humanities, so that might be something that is in two different variables in your chart.

[@vortkes4684]

What's the plaque you are holding in the intro picture? Is it Australian?

[@TheCambanks]

If my understanding is correct professional degrees in life science are like MD, nursing, mls, or PA assistant. So if you don't want to do medicine but you do love your field enough that you want to learn as much possible you need a PhD. You get more freedom than someone with just a master's and less of a pay ceiling. I will say a lot of the pay drop for PhD at least in life science is due to getting stuck in the post doc trap and staying in academia for years. But there is a shift recently of people rejecting post docs and going straight into industry. Very few grad students I know now want to be professors.

[@damienkline8638]

I’m curious to know what areas of LS are weak for employment. As a human anatomist, I had my pick of jobs at various medical schools, as the US currently has a shortage of classical trained anatomists. As a PhD teaching in medical school, I make over 100k.

[@Drganguli]

STEM PhD’s are always in demand

[@ladyeowyn42]

STEM MS is almost as valuable in many cases, in my experience. I haven’t felt limited by not pursuing the doctorate.

[@Dr.Gamboa]

@@ladyeowyn42 this is true, but it really depends on the field/discipline

[@milomitchener4166]

Yeah I have a PhD in Aerospace engineering but I feel like it hasn't helped my career significantly more than a masters

[@Drganguli]

@@milomitchener4166 But it may be more marketable than a PhD in Greek literature

[@Drganguli]

@@ladyeowyn42 Yes stem MS is the optimal degree for jobs

[@Grizzbit]

What about people who want a doctorate in history just because they want a doctorate in history

[@bhangrafan4480]

In the UK, and I say this as someone who comes from a family of engineers, private sector engineering companies generally prefer to recruit graduates with top grades straight from their first degree, then induct them into their graduate training programmes, rather than recruiting engineering PhDs. The three years spent in academia doing a PhD are to some extent three years LOST which could have been spent learning the industry. However good academic training and education is, it cannot train someone for the peculiarities of the world of engineering work in their chosen industrial sector. In science, I am actually a science graduate, not an engineer, if you want a career in private sector industry, say the big Pharmaceutical companies again there are two different ways. Recruits into management training will normally be recruited with just a first degree then put on the management training programme. Again they are only ever looking for people with top grades and a suitable outgoing personality. To go into such a company from completing a PhD means being much more confined to a lab based, research and development based career, with limited access to management positions.

[@envitech02]

PhD is overrated. I run an engineering and consulting company for 21 years. I had some job applicants with PHD but I didn't even bother calling them for interview. Zero advantage for any company over the usual college diploma. Many in their late twenties with not even one minute of professional work experience (beyond working in a fast food joint) or any tangible result from their decades of education. They don't even have basic technical knowledge like welding standards etc. I think PHDs are good only for academia so I normally politely steer them in that direction.

[@majesticjester1]

How do you steer them towards academia if you do not even call them for an interview?

[@envitech02]

@@majesticjester1 I didn't call them, they called me. But I was very polite to them and jut recommended that they go for academia. Our work is very tough and challenging.. We climb chimneys, roofs and enter confined spaces and put our lives in danger every time.. It unlikely a super highly qualified person can do these things..

[@ivanajvan]

I beg to differ. Just because in USA humanities, history or life sciences are not cool, is also a reflection of the general stupidity in the USA, and how people know to just klick 3 stuff on PC and have a fancy name and job for that, but are like sheep's, easy to control them. I can back that up with zillions of KZbin videos. In Europe, if you have a PhD in history, you can choose whatever you like, and also in the next 5 years, there will be even more openings for those two. As a historian my self, doing PhD in late antiquity, so far I have been called to many projects, seminars, occasionally helping my faculty with antiquity subjects, have been doing also a tourist guides tours in Ljubljana, and after my PhD I can freely apply even for positions in different ministry sectors in the government! Today, all the fancy stuff is computer sciences, medicine, economy and law. And there are already so many people in those areas, that they cant find a job. I can bet my hole year salary, that I can find faster a job with history than with law!

[@23andrelopes]

Despite of doing a super useful and valuable PhD, I still felt useless!!!

[@johnlongo7581]

I think the right to work after graduation for international students should be also considered

[@Ken-er9cq]

It can depend a lot on what area. Life Sciences covers a lot of territory, and a lot of PhD don't demonstrate a lot of understanding. People do ecological surveys and write it up. The people doing technical stuff in molecular biology would have a much better choice of employers. Even in technical areas choice of PhD is important. Someone I know employs PhD and says that a lot have researched areas that aren't very useful, they don't have a lot of theory, and they don't have massive amounts of output produced. Some of them that you think have done experimental work, they haven't, it was done by someone else and they used the results.

[@snowyfictions]

I was planning a PhD in history. But the job market put me off - I'm fine with a Masters.

[@bushra2179]

I'm wanting to do a PhD in archaeology and my plan for after hinges on an apocalypse and the complete collapse of civilization

[@iwrona6258]

Can you link the studies and graphs please? I can't find them :(

[@todddunn945]

The thing about the life sciences professional degree is that it is an MD, thus the high salary in the US. Many disciplines have no professional degree. My wife, for example got a Ph.D. in comparative literature and linguistics from a top school. No job so she went to law school. Professional degree with no relationship to her Ph.D. field. It did take her an additional three years in school. At least that was free since I was a prof at the university where she went to law school. She did go into academia after a few years though in that she became a law prof. Also the most common entry level job, particularly in the sciences, is likely just a lab tech. So you may not need that chem Ph.D. to get a chemistry job, but washing glassware for a career might not be all that fulfilling. The same goes for many entry level jobs outside engineering or professional medical jobs.

[@Nicole-kc1vx]

Yea, my entry level job after finishing my research masters was in diagnostic testing for a government lab. I gained a lot of lab skills, but I hated the job. I felt quite overqualified for the work, and did not feel intellectually stimulated at all. We just carried out the tests, we didn't get to see the data or anything. After learning NGS, qPCR and some other tests (skills I knew were desirable in some research jobs) I started applying for PhDs. I want to go into research, but everytime I applied for RA jobs previously, I was rejected, and I suspect it was because they desired people with PhDs (even though only a masters was essential, and the pay was only a little bit higher than my diagnostic testing job) I will be starting my PhD in October. I'm super excited for it, I'm not worried about getting employed because it was quite easy for me to do it before, and I don't think I will have difficulty after my PhD because I will be acquiring many transferable skills, and have worked before. I know many people in academia who never took a break to work and experience the world outside of it, they stayed in it from bachelors to PhD, and now they are worried about acquiring a job. I personally feel like getting a job was easier than getting a PhD position 😅

[@todddunn945]

@@Nicole-kc1vx I took a job setting up a stable isotope lab during a break after getting my masters. Even though I built the lab from zero they hired a Ph.D. to use it, so I went back and picked up my Ph.D. then got a job as a professor so I could run my own lab without anyone telling me what to do.

[@sunriselotus]

Sounds like we are saying all phds are useless, or that we really have to take close attention to what tangible physical job we want to go into. Looks like phd is research for research’s sake where you get into it and then get stuck into it and never can get out u less you go into industry. Sounds like there can be something about getting more money from public or private grants too.

[@etornamtsyawo6407]

What is a professional degree? Could also do a video on useful PhDs?

[@jpg3702]

Law, medicine. JD, MD. I believe they don't have theses or dissertation so they are considered professional vs doctorate. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[@thenurseacademic]

I am finishing a DNP (doctor of nursing practice). I may do a PhD afterward :)

[@Pongant]

What exactly do you mean by "professional degree", certificates?

[@bhangrafan4480]

A common experience after leaving university is for someone to say "I did the wrong degree!".

[@sonjak8265]

That was me. PhD in mathematics.

[@janah.8471]

I'm surprised that chemistry was grouped in life sciences. At least here in the USA it is considered physical science instead and the jobs are much better paid than for life sciences. I have Ph.D, in chemistry (analytical focus) and I have a really nice industry job and so does every one from my research group.

[@AlphaNumeric123]

Always loved your stuff. I will add, humanities degrees may have some value if you get them from OxBridge, HYPMS and other Ivies (et al.); those degrees have just a bit of pizazz regardless, and they are potentially useful in politics and other public-facing careers. Outside of those exceptionally cases, a humanities degree from mid-tier down is often useless-worse than useless. People do make it, but it’s a fight. STEM degrees aren’t like that, but it won’t be easy, it’ll just be relatively easier. Not disagreeing with you, just adding to the discussion!

[@funduclasses3211]

if you every decide to do a phd, get some good publications + learn good method and data analyssi software before you even get into any phd program.

[@suffeedrmb3615]

Hi.do e .y MSSTER IN PUBLICHEALTH from im.perial londo n,uk.how ma y yezrs will it tzke . Me to fi nish PHD

[@stunchbox7564]

what is a professional degree?pls help us with enough examples?what kind would you recommend for a soil scientist?

[@milomitchener4166]

They're really only applied to a few major careers, normally they're not an option

[@ricomajestic]

You really only need a PhD if you will teach at a University and you want to be a professor. In tech, you can easily get a job in industry with a BS or MS degree.

[@DennisBolanos]

Dr. Stapleton, could you make a video comparing a PhD with an MD (the postgraduate research degree, not the undergraduate degree)?

[@alexanderhickey1427]

When you say humanities PhD do you mean PhD that is a generic humanities PhD or a PhD that is in a discipline that is considered humanities? I would consider history a humanity which is why I ask (although I know there are people who consider it social science)

[@linsylar7649]

Is a PhD in creative writing worth it for me if I want to become a professor in the reletive field?

[@ladyeowyn42]

Those professorships have exceedingly rare job openings, each with a thousand applicants. Are you a gambling man?

[@basedblueboy8770]

You'd have a shot if studying at a top 10 university and a willingness to relocate on a whim. Is this you?

[@TankMoonBreeze]

It depends on which country you are in actually. In my country, Taiwan, if you have that background, you would have a shot getting a university professor position. The shot, believe it or not, is not long at all. You may not get the position in your first few attempts, but as long as you keep yourself in the game, you would get it. Also, with myself as an example, you DON’T necessarily need a degree from top 10 universities to be a competitive applicant. Most of my colleagues are not, at least. The field of creative writing is not that big, and the trick of getting an academic job in humanities field here is more about being well-connected. The publishing part comes later. The rank of your school comes even later.

[@anatreg4967]

Does it mean the Ph.D. in pharmacology is useless since it is in life science?

[@user-yt2xv1gs7l]

Already know will stop after my master in electrical eng, clicked for the beard

[@dac8939]

Friend has a Phd in mathematics from university of york and making over £350k in quant trading in London

[@dac8939]

@@cordfortina9073 Not really as economy benefits. More taxes paid and having good talent in UK keeps those financial service firms in London. Finance is huge part of UK economy. The sad part is that he is forced to work in Finance as opposed to working in research or helping lecture new generations.

[@geometerfpv2804]

If you are thinking about your PhD in terms of jobs, a PhD is not for you. It's for people who are so desperate to spend more time learning a subject that they've thought of getting themselves thrown in prison so they could just read all day.

[@bhangrafan4480]

What do you mean by a "professional degree"? (Talking UK) I am not at all convinced by the big BS market for MBA courses. I think most employers in private industry regard these as putting off getting a real job rather than a valuable enhancement. Real industrial experience is always of the highest value to them. Rather by professional quailifications we are more likely talking about professional exams in accountancy, surveying, actuarial, or even law. For most of these you need to have got the job FIRST, the employer then sends you to get these qualifications through part-time, such as evening study. Again these types of jobs recruit only top graduates with top grades, mostly from top universities. They only want to cream off the graduate milk.

[@bhangrafan4480]

As with most PhDs in most academic subjects there are THREE main career routes after completeing: 1) Get a research position 2) Get a teaching position, this includes secondary schools as well as universities. Schools seem to have an inexhaustible demand for teachers, perhaps because most people don't survive long in the job these days. 3) Get a job in an unrelated private sector industry as a graduate manager. This applies pretty much to all subjects irrespective of what technical expertise they provide you with. The technical expetise just increases your chances of going in one or other direction such research or a specific industry that uses your knowledge.

[@SteveOliver-hh3rc]

What age does someone normally finish their PhD please?

[@PriyaDharshini-cp7hw]

I don't know if I'm a odd person, but I'm planning to do a PhD in education (humanities) after finishing masters in chemistry. By all means it might not be a great choice for a well paid job, but I am unable to let go of my passion for education research. I really hope I end up in a job that I love, may not be well paid, but at least something I'm passionate about. Is there anyone here who jumped from the sciences to humanities? I know it's very rare, but if you people do exist, please give me some motivation to pursue my passion 😅

[@ericadionisi2213]

Perhaps you could find a PhD program to study chemistry education. I know there are certain research groups that specialize in this field 😊

[@PriyaDharshini-cp7hw]

@@ericadionisi2213 thank you very much! I am searching for that too!

[@gold9994]

you could be a trainer.

[@Shadowoftheoldones]

The whole "start with the end in mind" thing is key. I thought my PHD was a good idea because it was in Chemistry, even though I wasn't sure where I was going after. Boy was I fucking wrong. Biggest fucking mistake of my life and a horrible waste of 6 years. Thanks for putting this content out there.

[@user-mi2hs5or5r]

estudien lo que quieran, de todas maneras no hay jale

[@mzahmed6533]

are Phd in Management sciences or in English?

[@fernandoblanco3001]

It would be interesting to see what this individual would say in a room full of successful and prominent people that have completed "useless" PhDs. There's a lot to be said about the character of a man that would belittle and demean the hard work/ passion or dreams of others.

[@ZhangWei-df7ej]

Andy is wrong, there are heaps of life science postdoc jobs. However, if the point of a PhD is to provide new and novel ideas, isn't history contradictory to that point?

[@edgarrodriguez8973]

Postdocs are not real jobs, that's gig economy!

[@TankMoonBreeze]

It isn’t, because PhD in history do not merely “tell history”. Check out their theses and delve a bit deeper into them. Then you’d probably understand.

[@ZhangWei-df7ej]

@@TankMoonBreeze but there is no way to really know what happened many years ago. Fossils and written documents are really unreliable and not valid evidence because you can not reproduce the results in the scientific method. Just making up interpretations of what might have happened because a bone looks a certain way or documents said something is not worthy of being called true knowledge, it is just an opinion.

[@jonasrla]

I missed the Economics PhD analysis. The funny thing is that probably you stumbled on some economics papers to make this video