Using Barry's Scales of Chords EP 108 TILF Barry Harris

/ thelabyrinthoflimitations
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Collings I35 Deluxe

[@mikegeld1280]

Yes,this was useful, ty,I'll catch u on the next one

[@TheLabyrinthofLimitations]

Also, this is a great follow up to your episode 106. You should make a playlist with those grouped together for new followers. I know you're realllly into making playlists ;)

[@mattgrooms1853]

hahahahahaha We need someone to organize TILFBH for Chris! lol

[@ThaiNitai]

does this make sense for playing over a minor seven? - I used Em⁷ = (from the family of dominants of B° - also from the resolution of C° ) GM⁶° - EM⁶° - B♭M⁶° - D♭M⁶° > (from the resolution of B° to each - also from the family of dominants of D♭°) CM⁶° - E♭M⁶° - G♭M⁶° - AM⁶° > (from the resolution of D♭° - also from the family of dominants of C°) DM⁶° FM⁶°⁷ A♭M⁶° BM⁶° one technique that we see is extended sequencing > so in essence you can use this table to take Em⁷ anywhere you want starting a minor third up. maybe we could call it modulation up a minor third with an extended M⁶° sequence....and we can also substitute the major for the dominant..."the quintessence of reality the beautiful."

[@JohnHorneGuitar]

Thanks for another great video! Labyrinth of Limitations and your channel compliment each other perfectly. I find it interesting that when different people use these concepts they still sound like themselves!

[@NeridaT]

Ok now let's invert a G7 b9 13 drop 3! I am greatful to you and some others and of course Barry Harris, I will never have to do that!

[@ThaiNitai]

also. this rings similiar to the natural harmony that occurs from teachings of the great master Sarasvati Devi, entitled Raga. Scale or mode has always been primary and the harmony occurs naturally by the improvisational routes they takes. focus put on rhythm, on melodic contour, and combining pitches linked to seasons, times, creating moods for particular activities and pastimes, et cetera. i may have something here 😂 thank you chris 🙏🏻 😊

[@TheLabyrinthofLimitations]

excellent lesson, brother. so clear and concise. keeping it goin:)

[@MrVesperatu]

Man, I love this channel. Ive had to watch this video like 15 times but i keep getting more out of it every time.

[@NakulKrishna]

Brilliant lesson, thank you for demystifying this at a fundamental level. Very very cool, and it’s awesome that you’re carrying forward his legacy and teachings to us for FREE. Thank you.

[@dananthony6258]

I think this video just changed my life. I cant stop watching it. I think I can start to understand Thomas’s videos now.

[@ThaiNitai]

i love this!!!!! thank you for your continued support to voicing barry's melodic heart. however ❤ in addition I ALSO think of the original three diminshed chords and dont consider them different on their inversions, i.e., B°⁷ = B♭⁷ D♭⁷ E⁷ G⁷ Fm⁶ A♭m⁶ Bm⁶ Dm⁶ C°⁷ = B⁷ D⁷ F⁷ A♭⁷ G♭m⁶ Am⁶ Cm⁶ E♭m⁶ D♭°⁷ =C⁷ E♭⁷ G♭⁷ A⁷ Gm⁶ B♭m⁶ D♭m⁶ Em⁶ and then for example i get these formulas based on C°⁷ GM⁶° - G A B C D E♭ E G♭ = GM⁶ + C°⁷ chords of : GM⁶ A°⁷ GM⁶/B A°⁷/C GM⁶/D or Em⁷/D A°⁷/E♭ GM⁶/E or Em⁷ A°⁷/G♭ Gm⁶° - G A B♭ C D E♭ E G♭ = Gm⁶ + C°⁷ chords of: Gm⁶ A°⁷ Gm⁶/B♭ A°⁷/C GM⁶/D A°⁷/E♭ Gm⁶/E or Eø⁷ A°⁷/G♭ G⁷° - G A B C D E♭ F G♭ = G⁷ + C°⁷ chords of: G⁷ A°7 G⁷/B A°⁷/C G⁷/D A°⁷/E♭ G⁷/F A°⁷/G♭ G⁷♭⁵° - G A B C D♭ E♭ F G♭ = G⁷♭5 + C°⁷ chords of: G⁷♭⁵ A°7 G⁷♭⁵/B A°⁷/C G⁷♭⁵/D♭ A°⁷/E♭ G⁷♭⁵/F A°⁷/G♭ et cetera... so G⁷ plus A°⁷ produce these four chords but why i think of it the other way also is because C°⁷ resolves to G∆ B♭∆ D♭∆ E∆ so not only are the B°⁷ Family of chords connected to each other but they are also connected to the C°⁷ family of chords by way of their Major resolutions et cetera. does this make anysense.

[@BenKolloch]

Beautiful, Chris! Thank you

[@meditatelevitate]

Thanks for another great lesson

[@jakelee7639]

Priceless,...cannot thank you enough for this

[@drunkenmandolin]

Great lesson as always Chris.

[@Dave_Sacca]

Mind blowing. I can't thank you enough for sharing these teachings.

[@bobfarmer9120]

This is gold … absolutely fascinating and brilliantly explained, I’m loving it. Thank you 🙏

[@Alan-zi2rs]

Thanks great lesson 🎸🎶👌

[@unclenote]

Yes Chris ,I enjoyed this ,limitless possibilities,thanks

[@6Francois]

Another great lesson! Very helpful! :)

[@callum.dokkodo]

When you taught us the family of dominants I went to my guitar and found the mi6 family when raising the notes and was waiting for you to get into this. I love how much there is to uncover. This has really given me back the childlike wonder with music.

[@dananthony6258]

I haven’t been so exited about learning a lesson in so many years. My brain is melting but it’s starting to sink in .

[@onpatrolforthejuice]

This is a huge concept that I'm just getting my head around. It is really great info I never learned in music school. Thanks a ton 🙏

[@TrebleTrouble115]

Barry made this infinite and intertwined playground of musical possibilities just a little more conceivable, great video man!

[@PeteMartinMandolin]

Excellent Chris. Plus Labyrinth of Limitations is must see.

[@dananthony6258]

Great video. I’m still soaking this scale up and getting it under my fingers. This helps so much.

[@dananthony6258]

Lmao , I was wondering why there want a sharp 5 scale ,now I see it’s in the min 6 diminished . I get something new every time I watch this video. Definitely one of my favorites.

[@JapsieV]

I just wanted to say: keep up the good work!

[@brad724p]

Mind blowing.

[@annonymeandfish]

I began my study of Barry’s scales of chords and It really helped me figure my fretboard out. My hand now follows effortlessly my mind and it really impacted my composition. I am not a jazz musician, I write songs. Now I can write poetry with my words and my music. Following every words I say with the exact motion I want. Thats thanks to you and thomas! Note: sorry for my approximative english!

[@JulioHerrlein]

R.I.P. Barry Harris

[@lgoler]

This. Chris, you remind me of Donald Sutherland in Animal House, “and that means one tiny atom”….and of course it’s endless how far one can take an open concept!

[@rowdyroddy519]

Looking forward to a video on what you talked about at the end with single note soloing. I'm a bassist, and have been interested in the Barry Harris concepts for a little while now, and trying to apply it to my bass playing. A video or videos covering the single note approach would help me a lot. Cheers.

[@TheLabyrinthofLimitations]

he has over 100 videos and most of them focus on single-line playing. I recommend going back to episode 1 and moving forward from there. It progresses

[@guidemeChrist]

Barry left us with the job of making sure EVERYONE learns this stuff

[@johannesm8137]

"all stuff is pretty" - got it!

[@aleksik4028]

Its always pretty

[@thingsivelearnedfrombarryh2616]

Thomas Echols kzbin.info

[@paulcotman2551]

Great

[@WhiteRussianDolls]

Ascension!

[@TheRealSandleford]

Chris just wow. love it! is there a name for that DA DA DEE DA on the chords? trying with the dominant ones and would like to see where there may be an example like maybe on all the 4 types or I'll figure it out eventually.

[@blex9125]

What is the system for thinking of single note lines then???? I love these videos

[@TypingHazard]

One thing I've been thinking about is the whole "how many keys is a major 7th in" Dr Harris gives. When he said a Cmaj7 is in two keys, it got me thinking about using the two scales of chords for the keys that chord is in, and borrowing notes from either the main chord or the diminished to build the diatonic chord, and *then* trying to play the scale. Maybe you've talked about this somewhere before, but I noticed that making a Cmaj7 with the framework of a G6/diminished scale leads to some very crazy chords. I'm not sure if that's the right way to be thinking about chords like this, and indeed when I tried it with some of the other chords in G major it ended up being *really* strange, so I dunno if that's just me using the system funny or if that's a valid application.

[@JosephElsherbini]

I think a G6 on a C chord is what Barry calls the "6 on the 5" meaning you build a 6 diminished scale on the 5th degree of the chord. It ends up giving you a Cmaj9 sound on the "on-chord", and it has two non-diatonic (in the key of C anyway) notes to borrow, the #11 and the b3. Thomas has a video about getting lydian sounds from the 6 on the 5 (and even the 6 on the 2, so a D6 diminished scale over a C) kzbin.info/www/bejne/in23i6Shn9ZmkKs .

[@mr.khomsornlomthaisong9355]

❤

[@tylercooney]

Yeah man

[@JoePariseauMusic]

I'm really glad you've started to talk about the difference between Barry's scales and how to use them depending on the context. Can you do more on these differences please? For example: on a ii V7 I in C... please clarify. If soloing, I'm thinking V7(G7 or any of its relatives) into I (C or the 6th on the 5th) and disregarding the ii (Dm7). But, if I'm comping I'm thinking Dm7=F6dim G7=6dim Relatives C=C6dim or G6dim? It's a bit confusing cause Barry is always talking about "nowadays everyone is a 251 player" and in his day nobody thought that way. It appears that there is an important difference between the thought process when comping vs soloing. Is Barry saying don't be a 251 player unless your comping? Another question that comes to mind is over a 251 (in C for example) can a soloist play F6dim into Relative 6dim into C6dim/G6dim or vice-versa? Inversely, could one comp on the ii-V7 ignoring the ii chord for comping? Thinking like a (Barry people) soloist BUT for comping? Thanks for another brilliant lesson Chris! 😁🙏🎵 P.S. I agree, Thomas understands this stuff and "sees" it so fast!

[@johnrothfield6126]

Great video as always. You say: "I've never seen a system that explains everything" I agree. But as I think about it, I don't think I've hardly seen ANY system at all for western music (in my limited knowledge) ... About the closest I've seen is Fux's treatise on counterpoint which Bach respected and which Mozart and Beethoven studied in order to learn counterpoint. I think Barry's teaching is fantastic, but I think we should keep an open mind and think about other "systems" that we may come across (or devise ourselves) in looking at the what is the ocean of music. Note that many other systems of music (Maqam, Raga) are based on melodies that are very particular and are taught orally (often as well as through written music)

[@TypingHazard]

I feel like in the context of what he said, he meant that Barry's system has a rationale behind all the different note choices you could make in these substitution situations. If you derive a chord from the Ab diminished you know that it's a potential substitute for any of the other chords derived from it. I find that most people, when they talk about the note choices in their chords, they just go "it's cool because it's got the b9 and the #11" but that's not really a reason, that's just knowing what the extension is. Some folks come up with some interesting stuff that way, but for my part I couldn't really do anything like that until I ran across Barry's material.

[@TheLabyrinthofLimitations]

I don't think there's anything close-minded or contentious about what Chris is saying. We're talking about tonality in what we call "western music" --standard tunes, compositions, and improvisational works. The breadth of Barry's teaching is demonstrable with regards to this. It isn't required that it also explains the organizational principles behind microtonality, granular synthesis, Chinese folk music, or carnatic music. The same can be said of those areas of music making with regards to bebop or tonality in the extended common practice. Of course, if you want to explore the principles at play behind Ligeti's Lux Aeterna or a late Coltrane solo, you'll have to look elsewhere, but that doesn't take away from Chris's point. As far as other organizational methods for looking at western tonality goes, we have have Schenkerian analysis (which is expansive and extremely useful for certain projects) and transformation theory (same), and the lydian chromatic concept, just to pick a few (there are a variety of approaches with jazz that are studied in academia). Having spent a whole lot of time with the first couple of these (indeed, I still continue to study them in certain ways), I'm personally pretty solidly convinced as to Chris's assertion. Species counterpoint a la Fux is intentionally isolated in its focus, which is what makes it an excellent "dojo" for studying counterpoint. Schenker and his acolytes broadened the principles taken from Fux to form a system through which tonal coherence can be studied. Despite any claims from the teacher Aloysius who (spoiler alert) dies before finishing his teaching to the venerable student Josephius, Fux's treatise is more of a didactic tool than an organizational "system", as I understand it. I have much love for it, all the same. To me, this sort of maximalist consideration robs us from the ability to really perceive the true value of what Barry has shared. Within an extremely broad sonic terrain, it indeed does seem to explain everything, though the open-ended, exploratory principles at its core seem to negate the ability to prove that fact, by their very nature. This is "open-endedness" is also part of what makes it so wonderfully freeing. Just my thoughts, John

[@jackbombeeck4958]

Do you have a resource for the drop voicings on a guitar, such as you use them to play the scales?

[@maxappelman]

I have a few questions about this: In this video you alter the Ab diminished chord by either raising or lowering one of the notes to get a different chord that can be used instead of just G7 to resolve to C. You only lowered 2 of the 4 notes (lowering Ab to G, and lowering D to Db) and you raised 2 of the 4 (Ab to A, and D to Eb). Can you raise and lower the other two as well to recreate another chord that would resolve? i.e: Ab Bb D F (Bb7), Ab B D E (E7), & Ab C D F (Fm6), Ab B D Gb (Bm6) (sorry for the inconvenient enharmonic spelling). The way I see the Bb7 and the E7 would be as tritones of each other, which would make both of them resolve really well to either A (major or minor) or Eb (major or minor), But not to G. Funnily enough the Ab and the D that are either lowered or raised in the initial Ab diminished chord are also a tritone apart, should we only alter one of those 2 to get a chord that'll resolve well to C? Hope all that rambling made sense. Also, there being this many possibilities (the possibilities per 1 type of scale is overwhelming by itself) I find it hard to study this in a structured way. Especially the borrowed notes. Do you have any recommendations on how to practice this in a structured type of way? Thanks :)

[@user-py2ir3oi6c]

Quick question: You raised and lowered 1note at a time to find a scale of chords to play over G7 but would it be all right if i raise or lower 2notes at a time

[@jeremyversusjazz]

🙏👍

[@jameserenberger3425]

How do you feel about Pat Martino's approach to improvisation?

[@joaobrasileiromusica]

thinking on G7 ,if we take the Ab diminished and raise the F we got Bm6 . is it a possible substituition since we got the F# over the G7?

[@piloadami_]

Same here, although the F# sounds nice as a passing note, I think as a chord it will depend a lot on voice leading

[@cmb_cworld]

the truth

[@matthiasmeiner8064]

These are lessons for real musicians right? Can someone reach out to tell me where I can learn to understand this stuff? A good book maybe or someone on YT who starts at the basics of this? I know these lessons are gold and I want to learn from it but can't due to a lack of understanding. I explore my guitar intuitive for at least 6years now and it has such a do to me... I want more.

[@dananthony6258]

Wait so you don’t play the 6th on the G7 chord with the flat 7 ? I know it’s impossible on guitar just know that how the minor 6 diminished works so I’m confused .

[@markbra]

G7= G7dim G7 and Adim. then superimpose Abdim and Bbdim ?

[@taylorfusion]

Given the focus Abdim has in this video in generating so much harmony, not sure why you started out emphasizing that D-7 as "also being a F6" since it's not a static kind of minor 7th chord here. Barry would ignore that altogether and just spin out G7 kinds of lines (includes D-6). THEN when the (alt) dominant sound is wanted we have all those minor 6th dim at our disposal. I get that dminor7 = F6 but only if the FUNCTION of the harmony remains key centered for a bit (not instead that it is in-flight toward some kind dominant harmony) Barry Axiom = ignore the ii-7 in a ii-V-I the "C" in D-7 is just borrowed from the F#dim scale

[@TheLabyrinthofLimitations]

Barry taught us to play the ii chord when doing harmonic/polyphonic movement. Chris does a really pretty one around the 9:00 mark that moves from the ii to the V running F major 6 into D minor 6 with borrowing. I think that's why he starts out talking about D-7

[@GlennLaguna]

Tom who? 2:14

[@pichan8841]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJywlH1piZ2ZldE

[@GlennLaguna]

@@pichan8841 Thanks for the link. I looked quickly on his KZbin page. I assume this is the Tom (last name?). He doesn’t list his name that I can quickly see. Thanks again

[@user-ov5nd1fb7s]

I've just recently learned about Barry Harris, while i've been listening to Chick Corea and others from his generation for many years. Barry Harris' stuff seems useful but i get a sense of "only my stuff is good and everybody else is an idiot" type of mentallity. That is obviously a ridiculous assumption. Both from Harris' old videos i've seen and from his previous students. He even disrespected Chick Corea, Keith Jarrett and Herbie Hancock openly. This is very weird behavior that has absolutely no basis in reality. Do i even need to defend Chick Corea? It is Chick Corea for god sakes. If you diss him, i do not even know what to tell you. If a person can be so mentally challanged, no proper response exists.

[@OfficialDanieleGottardo]

Ab dim7 is: Ab ~ Cb ~ Ebb ~ Gbb, it doesn’t make sense in relation of the key of C major. Maybe G7 comes from the enharmonically equivalent B dim7, borrowed from the parallel minor key of C major ? Spelling matters!!!

[@TypingHazard]

If you try to think this way while applying Dr Harris's harmonic theory you're gonna have a tough time, don't worry about this stuff and just look at the enharmonic notes

[@JosephElsherbini]

Yeah, the note naming scheme that assumes each key has only one of each A B C D E F G falls apart in Barry's diminished-first view of harmony

[@TheLabyrinthofLimitations]

I agree with the other two replies. While it is conventional to spell the diminished-that-resolves-to-C as B dim7, as soon as you are preparing to consider the tritone's minor, which is best thought of as Ab minor 6, it becomes easier to think of it as Ab Dim as the source spelling. When you're considering this diminished chord as the center of a large list of possibilities that can be played over G7, you want to have enharmonic flexibility. If you were to write a score and wanted to communicate key center, that might be one thing, but if you wanted to write a score and communicate the improvisational thinking that creates all the endless exploration it's another thing. This is a chromatic approach at its heart