Using Heel Diagonal to Calculate a Better Fitting Flap // Technique Tuesday

[@milkjugs4771]

the amount of videos of yours I have saved is scary. You give out so much good information for FREE. Thank you so much

[@joanmiller7519]

This explanation is straight forward and understandable., Thank you for breaking it down as you did. It makes perfect sense. Even if I can’t remember the formulas, I can still calculate the math because I understand the process. You teach math better than many teachers I had. I look forward to seeing what a difference this makes in knitting well fitting socks. When I measured with a tape measure, the distance I got from the floor to the middle of my ankle bone was 2 1/2”. When I used my heel diagonal to calculate the length of my heel flap, I got 3”. Thanks for all you do for the knitting community. Your expertise coupled with your ability to explain things in a meaningful way are second to none!

[@RoxanneRichardson]

Let me know how it compares to socks you've knit with a 2.5'' flap. Most of the errors I've seen with heel flap length came from measuring too long (or measuring the length of the inner ankle bone, rather than the outer bone), resulting in a loose gusset. No one else has offered this as a solution (that I have found), so I wasn't sure how broadly this idea would work when it first occurred to me in late July. It *seems* to have worked well for those who have tried it so far, but I will be curious to find out where there might be issues with it. Have you found that your socks are tight across the heel diagonal with the 2.5'' heel flap?

[@joanmiller7519]

Roxanne Richardson I’ve only knit two pairs of socks for myself. The first ones were so big that I gave them to my husband. He loves them. I did not try to figure out why they were so big. I just remember spending hours and hours knitting them from a pattern only to realize that they did not fit. I was so disappointed, but happy that my husband could use them. That pattern and my notes are at home in Kansas City and so I can’t access them. (We are on Lake Hubert near Brainard, MN, where we spend most of Sep and some of Oct. The second pair of sock I knit were in a Craftsy class called “My First Toe Up Socks”. They had an afterthought heel. Susan B Anderson was the teacher. Those socks ended up too long and I spent hours at a knitting retreat taking out the toes so that I could shorten the length of the feet. I then reknit the toes. I have the socks on now and I think the fit is ok, but not wonderful. The socks I’ve knit for myself had two different kinds of heels, the first a heel flap and gusset and the second an after thought heel. My heel diagonal is 13 1/2 inches and I think I have a high instep. Also have an arch, but nothing too exaggerated. I’m rambling, but hoping you might have some insight into my challenges. I will gladly let you know how my next socks turn out. I’m getting ready to cast on and have decided to use a US size 0 needle which allows me to get 9 1/2 stitches per inch,. It’s either that or a US size 1 needle which gives me 9 stitches/inch. I recall your telling us to use the gauge which gives a firm fabric. The size 0 needles does give me a firmer fabric, but would the size 1 needle fabric do? Well I’ve rambled on, please forgive me. We’ll return to Lake Hubert for all of Sep 2020. I would love to take a class if you are teaching at that time.

[@KateColors]

I agree. Roxanne is a great teacher and I love a great math teacher! I love her deep dives. 💝🎁💝 A true gift to us. --- KateColors

[@stephanieselb8329]

I’m finally re-learning heel flaps and gussets. Made a pair of socks per pattern and they fit pretty well. I started another pair of socks with same pattern, but I forgot about this video. I examined my newly finished sock and figured out how many additional rows for my flap. That was yesterday. I just rewatched your video and did my own calculations while watching. Your method of calculating the heel flap was totally spot on!! I calculated the same number of stitches as what I knitted yesterday after much fiddling, measuring and counting. Now I know exactly what to do for the next pair without counting stitches to reverse engineer a sock that fits. I just might become a heel flap and gusset convert. Thank you AGAIN for this awesome video. 👍🏽

[@pattihenry2136]

THANK YOU! Your tutorial is exactly what I have been looking for. My socks usually fit when the pattern has some give (lace, ribbing, etc.) but the sock I just finished is a plain stockinette stitch and is very snug around that heel-foot diagonal area. This solution makes perfect sense I will rip out the sock till I get to the heel and knit the heel flap longer to accommodate my foot, not that I really want to frog all that... but I'd rather do that and have socks that will fit and wear well.

[@christiewright1883]

Thank you so much Roxanne. I learn so much from you....and I've been knitting about 50 years....avidly

[@helendakin6784]

Wow! Very comprehensive, informative and easy to understand. Thankyou very much 😊

[@stephanieselb8329]

When I started knitting socks, I did top down with heel flap and gusset. My socks never really fit well. I quit heel flaps and started knitting toe up with a variety of heels. My favorite is fish lips kiss heel. I’m able to calculate the mods I need for good fit. After watching this video, I think I can try heel flaps again! Thank you!!

[@suzycue7900]

Thank you, thank you!! I have very narrow feet though I wear a size 9. I have been unable to knit an pair that fits properly. Your explanation is so understandable. I’m anxious to try it out!

[@kvmackay]

so so so helpful. you have saved a few pairs of my socks. THankyou!!

[@MildredGlutz]

This is very helpful! I am very tall and always have to add length to everything I make. I also have a high instep. Working on my first pair of socks. Had no idea I needed increased length in heel flap of sock. It makes so much sense. Thank you for this video! Second pair will fit better!

[@priscaklatten5278]

Thank you Roxanne, I am really beginning to understand sock knitting.

[@patrishamatthews4018]

Awesome and very informative video.

[@jeaninegunn4118]

Thanks!! I'll use this for next socks I knit for a friend with skinny ankles but wide spread of toes.

[@karinberryman7970]

It's a good thing maths is your strong point Roxanne.

[@laume702]

Thank you for explaining this I am new to knitting socks and soon learned there had to be more than what was in the written pattern. I have been confused and mystified thank you for explaining it all.

[@RoxanneRichardson]

You are so welcome!

[@nancythomas1172]

Such a clear concise video! My family have big feet! This is very helpful for me to find the right fit! Thank you!

[@vadec5909]

Thank you for this explanation. Just learning now

[@Kaileynorriscreates]

That's very interesting about the negative ease. I knitted a sock in exact measurements of my foot and after blocking it was tp big! I need to learn more about this. Thank you.

[@RoxanneRichardson]

Negative ease *and* a firm gauge are what you need for a great sock. Good luck with your next pair!

[@TeeLeigh66]

Your explainations make so much sense to me ! I particularly like it when you put the words on the screen AFTER you do the show-n-tell part. It helps me relate what you're saying to what you've just shown us. I'm on sock #2 and making good progress, thanks to all your videos.

[@noreenwojtan2859]

Great information, thank you!

[@monicabuch3827]

Thank you for sharing that information with us😊

[@mistyblue5312]

You are a prodigious source of information on sock knitting and we are the lucky recipients. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise with all of us. I will be keeping this video explanation for many years to come as a “how-to”reference. A file of recipient measurements is a great idea. Rox you really rock! 😃👍🏻🧶🧶❤️

[@amg3207]

Thank you so much very informative information I needed to know......

[@deedeewendtla5754]

Wonderful!!!❤

[@imenabbasi8772]

Your rock waww thank you for all your efforts really I appreciate it I am crurrently working on a pair of socks and I am a beginner I finally understand how it works

[@patgriffin1925]

Hi Roxanne, I am going to take two classes on knitting socks. I am now wondering how do Knitters make socks for gifts? Your podcast makes so much sense.

[@RoxanneRichardson]

I keep a folder of feet and hands! When I get together with a group of friends or family that I am inclined to knit for, I trace their hands and feet, and take circumference measurements. That way, when I feel like knitting a gift for them in the future, I have all the relevant information.

[@patgriffin1925]

Thank you for your response. I will start making a list of measurements for my family. Great idea!

[@ateaseknitting]

love this!!

[@cf743]

Actually foot size sock is small & am sizing up to a medium & will your calculation method for a heel flap & gussets to determine heel length work with this? 😊 Regards Carol

[@cf743]

Finally I am using lang jawoll sock yarn

[@kathleendavy937]

Thanks for keeping me from making an expensive mistake and possibly losing a customer. She has small, odd shaped feet and I needed the ration for change.

[@kt1pl2]

I've made socks before but they were really baggy. Trying to follow this has my head spining.

[@NanZingrone]

Great explanation. I've been struggling with the World War II pattern because the flap is too long for my husband. I think I may be able to make it fit now.

[@cf743]

Hi Roxanne Could you clarify, if I am knitting a 2x2 rib knee length sock or even just a lower calf length sock in rib and the pattern states 12.5 sts to inch in fin and 8.5 sts to inch in stockinet, do I do the calculations for the heel diagonal / heel flap based on the pattern gauge or the stockinette gauge used for sole of sock? I hope this makes sense? Kind Regards Carol

[@RoxanneRichardson]

Do it based on the stockinette gauge. Ribbing has the same amount of fabric/yarn as stockinette (maximum stretch is the same), it just pulls in more when relaxed, becoming three dimensional, rather than flat.

[@cf743]

Finished gusset circ for small sock is 90 sets & finished gussets circ for medium is 98

[@khabuda]

Hi Roxanne. I have a question regarding the ankle bone to floor measurement. Would you use that measurement for the exact length of the heel flap, or do you remove 10% from that measurement as well?

[@RoxanneRichardson]

I use the exact length.

[@joanmachado9063]

Thanks very informative

[@miraremh]

This is such helpful information! Last month I decided to turn some top=down socks into handwarmers because they were too tight for me at the heel diagonal -- now I might try that pattern again for socks! Is there a particular calculation for decreasing the extra stitches as you work past the instep and start the foot of the sock? Thank you very much!

[@RoxanneRichardson]

The standard method for decreasing would be to decrease 2 sts every other round until you were down to your original stitch count (CO #). That works if your ball of foot and ankle are the same circumference, but if not, stop the decreases when you are down to the stitch count you need to fit your ball of foot with 10% negative ease. You might need more dec rnds or fewer, depending on the discrepancy between the ankle and ball of foot.

[@miraremh]

@@RoxanneRichardson Thank you very much! So, regular decreases at regular rate, until foot circumference w/ neg ease calculated in! Thanks again!

[@cf743]

Hi Roxanne I am following your instructions for calculating heel length based on heel diagonal. My question is if the sock gauge is different on a different sock pattern, won’t this change the heel length according to sock being knitted. So this will change heel length & won’t always be the same? Kind Regards Carol Xx

[@RoxanneRichardson]

The heel diagonal helps to confirm that you have measured the length of your heel correctly. Once you confirm that you know the correct heel flap length, you can knit to that heel flap length for any yarn. If you use a yarn with a different gauge, you will have a different number of rows knitted in the flap, and a different number of sts that you pick up, but that's fine. The stitch:row gauge proportions are the same from one yarn to another (or close enough that the difference doesn't matter). You will have a different number of sts on the needles at the start of the gusset, but that's to be expected when you are working with a different gauge.

[@cf743]

Thanks for replying so promptly. Amazing 😀. My heel length is 2.133 on a 7.5 st gauge & 2.25 on an 8 st gauge. So I guess 2.25 is ok for all my socks, as the difference is minimal. Rox, I watch all your videos & have been for years, always follow you. Love you. Hope you are feeling better now health wise & everything under control xx

[@cf743]

Hi Roxanne I am a very tight knitter and as such I know that my socks won't fit if I knit them like this even though I have picked the right size for my foot. I am about to start knitting an all over 2x2 rib from knee down. I have been advised to go up a sock size in pattern instead of a needle size as I like the fabric when tightly knitted like this. Will this work for me do you think? & also will I need to work an adjustment row to get to 68 sets for size small or keep 76 for size medium for foot ? Hope this makes sense. It's for a heel flap & gussets sock. My heel flap measurement is 2.5 inches😊 Regards Carol

[@RoxanneRichardson]

When you say you "have picked the right size for my foot," is it the right size based on the circumference you need using the gauge that you're getting, or are you picking a size based on measurements, using the stitch count, but not knitting at the gauge listed? Based on your other comments, I would suggest posting your question in a new discussion thread in my Ravelry group. You can find a link at the bottom of any of my videos.

[@cf743]

Right size based on my foot circ 9” x pattern gauge 8.5” = small size 68 sts sock & gussets circ 90 sts

[@cf743]

Not knitting at gauge listed

[@cf743]

12.375 heel diagonal

[@RoxanneRichardson]

@@cf743 As I said previously, this is best answered in my Ravelry group, rather in the comments of this video. Start a new discussion thread, indicate in a single post what your question is, what the pattern says to do, and how your gauge is different than the pattern.

[@latitude1904]

Rox Rocks - Yes she does!! Once again...

[@sylvanaire]

I am severely math challenged so I’m having trouble with these figures, but that’s my fault not yours, lol. What I would like to ask is, what if I were making a toe-up sock w/gusset & heel flap? Would the numbers be the same? For instance, I have 30 sts each on needles 1 & 2. My heel diagonal is 12.25”. Your math will tell me how long the flap should be but I want to also know how many gusset increases I need to reach that length. I know this video is 3 yo, but I hope you can still help me! 🙏😄

[@amycole8974]

This tutorial is very interesting and I will use it and practice it. However, how do I reduce the size of the instep. All my socks seem very large in that area.

[@RoxanneRichardson]

You may have a discrepancy between the size of your ankle and size of your ball of foot. If your ankle is an inch or more larger in circumference than the ball of your foot, then you may have too many sts at the start of your gusset, making it too loose. You may want to work some decreases across your first setup row for the heel to reduce the stitch count in preparation for the foot. You may also need a shorter heel flap than what you've been knitting, if you have a relatively flat foot. If you do the calculations, and find that these are not issues, then you may need to work your gusset decreases at a faster rate than every other round.

[@amycole8974]

Thanks for your feed back Rox, you have mentioned a couple of ideas that I had through of too, that I'm sure will work for my triple AAA ankle. @@RoxanneRichardson

[@melanieroberts72]

That’s genius. Thank you! With growing children, do you recommend that we do the calculation with every pair of socks?

[@sharonkeane4614]

This is a fit issue I have with my gusset and heel flap but I’m a toe up knitter. Maybe you can do a video on how to apply this to toe up?

[@RoxanneRichardson]

I doubt I will do a video on this, as I dislike toe up construction. Having said that, you can use the concepts in this video to figure this out on your own. Calculate the number of sts you would need at the start of a cuff-down gusset. That tells you how many sts you need to have at the end of your gusset for toe-up, before you turn your heel and work your flap. Assuming you are going to need more sts that you typically have, you'll have to start the gusset sooner, so that you finish your increases when the sock is the length you want before you turn your heel.

[@batya7]

This is a great explanation, but it is for top-down socks. Will you be explaining toe-up calculations?

[@RoxanneRichardson]

This was specifically regarding heel flap and gusset construction and the difficulty in measuring heel length. If you knit heel flap and gusset toe up (with heel flap on the sole), this would still apply, because you would still have the instep, picked up sts, and the heel turn making up the starting circumference of the gusset. If you're talking about another type of heel, such as a short row heel or peasant heel (which can also be knit in either direction), I did a whole series on modifying those heels for a better fit, in which the heel diagonal measurement was important. You can see the playlist here: kzbin.info/aero/PL1AZxTfSCe2ffOceDdBApIMUjkwS2sD1P

[@joan9569]

Thank you for this, Rox. I knew that you couldn't get away from sock heels! You ARE the heel superstar. :)

[@monicalarose7980]

Using this method I should be making a two and a half in long flap but I've been more comfortable with a much shorter flap, like 1.5" Not sure why, maybe my math is wrong somewhere...

[@cf743]

Sorry I meant to say rib not fin, this predictive text is really annoying! Carol

[@SilverCottage]

Unfortunately, I have dyscalculia, which is QUITE common. So, whenever someone like me hears this loooong string of numbers interspersed with a little English, with NO picture attached to it - just audio behind a black box with numbers on the screen - you totally lose us, and I want to throw something at the computer screen. The reason why people like me resort to videos is to combat this lack of understanding with NUMBERS. We need to see the item and have it spelled out. I get why you're doing it, but you are doing it for the other half of the population who doesn't have a learning disability around numbers. I am betting Roxanne doesn't have dyscalculia either - so it isn't on her radar. It would not typically occur to someone who doesn't suffer from this very common thing. SO - I would suggest that one day you re-do this video and simply include a visual of where these numbers are coming from. Lay down a sock in progress, and show where the stitches are and how many there are on the needles and/or the sock. Demonstrate the equation. That's what videos are for. If you are reading this and you just don't get what is the problem, it's because you don't have this issue, but millions of other people DO. The best I can explain is that numbers are so very abstract for us that we need to see something much more physical than an equation written on a blackboard - otherwise, we could read a book, right?

[@lynnmenckowski8243]

I couldn't agree more! Although she is very informative, once the numbers started flashing on the screen I was lost!