Using smart light switches with smart bulbs?

[@spr0k3t]

I use smart bulbs with smart switches designed to work with smart bulbs (Inovelli). The bulbs are bound to the switches and so the operation is such that even if my home automation system were to crash, everything would still work like nothing happened. The switches pass the guest test where the end user is nonethewiser of any differences or the fact that the lighting is considered "smart". The absolute best smart home is one that gets out of your way and let's you continue on like nothing is any different from a not-so-smart home.

[@JM-ep7sj]

But what is the difference between using decoupled mode in a switch? You would be able to turn on and off lights anyway, even without a decoupled mode. Is it that you can use all features of the smart bulb (light color, intensity etc)?

[@Inventor22x]

@@JM-ep7sj I did an extensive review of all the options: smart switch + regular bulbs, normal switch + smart bulbs, smart switches and smart bulbs, etc. The benefit of having both smart switches and smart bulbs is flexibility and customizability. I can have one smart switch control multiple lights or groups of lights, even on different lights switch circuits, using different tap patterns. With smart bulbs, I can control the color temperature of the bulbs throughout the day: bright during daylight hours, and warm in the evenings. You can link a door sensor with a hallway light to glow a candlelight hue when someone walks to the bathroom in the middle of the night. All sorts of customization are possible!

[@Schmidlap]

Link?

[@gerryf7015]

In North America, Inovelli has smart switches with a Smart Bulb Mode. Another reason to use both smart switches and smart bulbs is Adaptive Lighting in HA. Coupled with the Zigbee Binding and Zigbee Scene you can set up circadian lighting for any set of bulbs, whether on or off. Zigbee Binding will also allow local light control with a smart switch even when your automation goes down!

[@BrandonDoyleMN]

Yes, this is huge

[@exhstbearing]

@Gerry F, this is exactly what I thought about. I’ve been researching this and haven’t found much info. Any suggestions on where to research further?

[@Centurionguy69]

Nice video. I have been using Sonoff wall switches for about 2-3 years now and recently added sonoff smart bulbs as well. This has really enhanced my smart home experience. Especially in my bathrooms. When someone walks into the bathroom and motion is detected, the switch is turned on and of course the bulbs go on. But depending on the time, the bulbs go bright up to 10 pm at night and dim to 25% between 10 pm and 6 am so you are not blinded when using the little room at night. Why did I use sonoff bulbs? They remember the last setting at the time they turned off. So the next time they turn on, they are back to that same setting again. This works like a charm and when visitors are here, they can still turn on the lights manually if they want or let the automatons do it for them. We all win.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Nice! Adaptive lighting is a big benefit

[@AdrianStroie]

I have all my smart bulbs in the kitchen and hallways connected to smart switches. If home assistant is down for any reason, I only lose brightness and white spectrum control. The automations will set the right brightness and white color a second after the smart switch is on and withing 1s the bulvs are online. Also I have 8 Mr16 smart bulbs in the garden lighting connected to a mini solar battery system setup on the garden shed. I have a smart 12v zigbee relay that will fully shut off the power so not much power consumed during the day when lights are off. And all my smart bulbs, Ikea Innr revert to last state after a power off cycle which is very handy and makes all automations nice. Great work on your smart home Alan ❤

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

That's a cool setup, with some nice automations. Thanks for sharing 😊

[@MetaIsComing]

I've just started learning about smart homes recently, and your videos have taught me so much. Thank you! 😀👍

[@robert.wigley]

I've installed the Aqara H1 Smart Wall Switches (with Neutral) throughout my house to use with both smart bulbs (in the majority of fittings) and a few dumb bulbs. I chose them specifically because they have the decoupled mode. I don't think the benefit of this can be underestimated, as it keeps all your smart bulbs working as power can't be cut, makes all the switches match throughout the house, means there is just a fairly regular looking switch where the original switches were with no additional wireless switches mounted next to them, meaning guests do not get confused as they act just like regular switches. Plus you can do all kinds of things with the decoupled mode and smart bulbs. I have created an automation to cycle through different scenes if the button is pressed repeatedly (i.e. pressed again within 2 seconds of the first press), basically mimicing what the Hue Dimmer Switches and Smart Buttons can do.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I never thought to use the "repeated button press" like that for automations, that's really cool! Thanks for sharing!

[@robert.wigley]

@@HomeAutomationGuy It takes a bit of doing to use repeated button presses. I had to create helpers to store the timestamp of the button press, plus the scene that was being set, so it would know what was next in the sequence and then use conditions based on those. There may be a simpler way to do it, but it works for me.

[@MrKaiPro123]

@@robert.wigley you could also use the wait for trigger action and wait for the next button press. Use the timeout function of that action to timeout after 2 seconds. The mode of the automation must be single

[@pokerchartshq8673]

How are you able to use the light switch with Hue Lights/Scenes? I can't manage to access any of the "click" functionality outside of the Aqara app. Seems to be inaccessible by Apple Home, Google Home, and Alexa. The only thing you can do is turn the switch on/off, but of course, that's exactly the opposite of what you want to happen with a smart bulb.

[@robert.wigley]

@@pokerchartshq8673 Home Assistant.

[@johnwaterhouse8764]

Alan, I enjoy each video. There's a lot to learn. I'm remodeling my home, and right now, the house is in demolition mode. As we get into the construction mode, I look forward to start implementing some of the things I see you do. FYI, we have a reinforced concrete 2-story house in the Guadalajara Mexico area. On of my concerns is having a solid mesh network to reach all parts of the house. (Wi-Fi now has trouble getting through all the walls). I plan on using Z-Wave with Home Assistant, because Z-Wave has a longer range. Anyway, thanks again. And good luck on your project and your channel.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Z-Wave makes perfect sense in a solid concrete house. All the best with the new house. It's so much fun planning and setting up everything! (Well, my wallet doesn't find it too fun 🤣)

[@dam0363]

OMG! When did Aqara switches start working with Z2M in decoupled mode. I installed these throughout my home a year ago and at the time I had to wire them in without hard wiring them to my smart bulbs. As I liked them overall even though decoupled mode never registered an action in HA making that decoupled option useless. I can now wire them back in and keep my smart bulbs powered. The day has finally arrived! Thanks Alan. Now i just need to work out how I disable decoupled mode if HA is down so I can still operate my lights which imo is the ideal setup.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Yeh, I'd love to find out how to switch it back. I am sure I could create some script that runs on a separate server that sends MQTT messages somehow, but that relies on Zigbee2MQTT still being available when HA is down

[@dam0363]

@@HomeAutomationGuy Exactly, best I can think of is HA has a UPS and enables relay_mode when shutting down. But of course this only accounts for power loss scenario, not mqtt crashing. I think if MQTT was down for a while you could attempt to re-pair the switch and when it fails default to relay_mode

[@juliandsp]

Hi! Nice video as always! I use smart bulbs and a sonoff smart relay (R2 mini) with Esphome installed. With that configuration, you can program the switch to not activate the relay and turn on/off the smart bulb with automation (as you mentioned in the video), but when Home Assistant is down it will work over the relay to turn the lights on/off as dumb bulbs. The good part is that when home assistant is online again, it will continue the automations without changing or reseting anything. That has worked for me in both guest and wife use cases (she gets mad when the bulbs don't work). Thanks! Nice channel. 😊

[@DiegoFrias]

Interesting - does it work also for the Zigbee variant?

[@jean-remyl6656]

Hey Alan! Personally I'm using Xiaomi wifi smart bulbs to be able to change their color and intensity automatically depending on the time of day. Also, for fun to have funny colors ;) And they are really cheap. But, I want to keep the switch because nobody in my house wants to use an app to turn the light off. At the moment I'm using a dumb switch, so that means I cannot turn on the light automatically, just control it with HA to change the color & intensity while it's on. My automation to change the light level and color is actually triggered when the light turns on. Compared to the combination smart switch + dimmable dumb bulb, I can change the light color (warm/cold white for example). That's why I plan to add a smart switch on top of it. Thanks for this video!

[@BrandonDoyleMN]

Here in the US I’ve come up with quite a few solutions for this 1) inovelli switch/dimmer 2) zooz switch/dimmer 3) click smart (formerly Illumara) with Hue bulbs 4) brilliant control 5) Lutron Auora + Hue 6) RGBgenie 7) Lutron Pico + hubitat 8) lifx switch + bulb 9) wyze switch + bulb 10) Cync (formerly C by GE) switch + bulb

[@BrandonDoyleMN]

As someone else mentioned, binding the switch directly to bulbs and bypassing the relay so that the switch acts as a button controller is the best practice. That avoids problems if the hub goes down and reduces any lag. The worst would be any cloud based or Wi-Fi solutions since they can be slow and unreliable

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Thanks for sharing! I'm not familiar with many US products. I've had trouble getting binding to work consistently, but that could just be my devices.

[@avtarchana609]

Thanks again, your video addresses exactly the type of system I required. 🙏

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Glad it was useful!

[@Issa_eth]

do you know if this decouple works with zha now?

[@sygad1]

I have dumb dimmable white GU10s for ceiling lights connected to a Samotech 309 smart dimmer (zigbee) controller. I use a simple dumb push to make momentary light switch. This gives me flexibility for switches, I don't have to remortgage the house for the bulbs and I still get a complete manual backup for dimming up/down as well as on/off should my HA go offline. It's the best of both worlds, old skool press this button to make lights work and fully smart HA integrated lights. Samotech costs about £30, the rest is just standard equipment.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I think it's similar to the Candeo I use with an almost identical setup to you in most of my rooms. My office is the only special case

[@Realcraftproductions]

I actually have a use case that you didn't mention. I have analog dimmer switches around my apartment, and I want to switch to smart light bulbs in some places. As you have mentioned before, smart bulbs does not work with analog dimmers, so switching to smart bulbs means changing the switches, or at least covering them up. And if I want to go back to dumb bulbs, I have to change everything back, because they have to be dimmed with an analog dimmer... I don't like being restricted to either smart or dumb bulbs. I would like to be able to just change to whatever bulb I like, and I don't want to force the next owners to either go with my solution or change all the switches again. You have said this yourself: a smart home should make things easier, not more difficult. In my eyes, anything that does not look and work like a traditional switch/dimmer, will make things more difficult for people who do not have a smart home. Additionally, being forced to use either dumb or smart bulbs, is not "smart". In short, I want a dimmer switch that looks and works like a traditional dimmer switch, but it has a "smart bulb mode" where it pairs to the bulbs and dims them that way, turning off the analog dimmer. This should be implemented such that, other than the person pairing the switch and the light bulbs, no one can tell whether the bulbs are dumb or smart.

[@robert.wigley]

Unfortunately this doesn't exist, as far as I am aware, and I don't actually think it's possible to create something like this. The best you can do is buy something with a decoupled/detatched mode and use with smart light bulbs for dimming.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

As others have said, I don't think such a thing exists..... yet!

[@Realcraftproductions]

@@HomeAutomationGuy Exactly! It does not exist, and I don't understand why. My comment was more to try and figure out if it's because I'm the only one why would actually want something like this, or if anyone else might be interested in such a product. Because, as far as I can tell, it is definitely possible to make. So either it's an idea that have yet to be explored, or it's too expensive to make for the amount of people who would actually want to buy it. And I really want it to be the former, so maybe one day I can have a dimmer switch and not worry about being limited to either smart of dumb bulbs.

[@evancombs5159]

This likely wouldn't be doable with wifi based tech, but such a feature could easily exist within the smart home protocols. You setup the switch to recognize a specific light on the network. It then can send commands to that light using it's preferred protocol. As long as the switch can still ping the light it works in smart bulb mode. As soon as it cannot ping the light it switches to mechanical mode.

[@MortenHermansenNo]

Using Shelly 2.5s, mostly detached. They control smart bulbs and led strips. What's great is that I now have an extra paddle where there used to be one. It provides a lot of flexibility, the lights doesn't need to be connected to the switch. We have a couple of black paddles as well, they turn on night mode. Basically turning off or dining most lights, turning of the projector and stopping any media playing. We also have some patterns. Holding the paddle for a second enables dimmed mode. Clicking toggles normal lighting, slightly dimmed at a nice warm white Double clicking turns on full brightness daylight-white mode.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I love having an extra switch available for programming things like that!

[@johnwaterhouse8764]

I forgot to add that my wife and I are in our 70's, so we want to create a smart home that helps us live and age in place.

[@mjbates]

That's awesome! My home in Tucson is 100% adobe, even the interior walls! Z-wave has been rock solid after I installed a range extender. ZigBee just didn't cut it. We also remodeled our bathrooms recently to make them more accessible for our parents and other guests. Integrating my Google Speakers with Home Assistant has allowed for some really useful automations and routines. Best of luck with your smart home endeavors! The KZbin and Reddit Smart home communities are a great place for inspiration or help when you're stuck with an automation.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Thanks for sharing! I agree that this is one of the things that voice assistants are great for.

[@antigrav45]

Just tried one Aqara H1 EU double gang (No neutral !) because of your last video, can't say i'm impressed. Build quality is surely there, but it just turns off is there isn't any sufficient load plugged in. I'm using it in decoupled mode. This switch controls one plug, on which i've got a led light bulb, my 3d printer (usually off), a rapsberry pi and another 5v charger. As long as the led light bulb is on, the switch is behahing ok, but when it's off, the switch just lose connection in a couple of minutes, rendering it completely useless. Specs are mentioning a 3W minimal load, i'm at 7 and the switch still drops off. Can't say i would recommand the no neutral version.

[@Jayesci]

Smart switches are crucial for Partner Integration. I can't just install smart bulbs in the bathroom without a switch for my wife to turn on and off. Also if you have guests that turn off a smart switch connected to your smart bulbs you can't use them anymore until you physically walk over to turn it back on. Having a power bypass like the Aqara detach mode is an interesting solution. I've also heard the Inovelli Switches work well, but they are pretty expensive...

[@MikeHarris1984]

Innovelli light switches have a smart bulb function. Where you can actually set it to control a smart bulb rather than actually turning on and off the power to the electric. I just finished installing 10 of the red series 2 in 1 The project Phoenix switches. They are amazing switches and the best which I've ever used in my life. The seven segment LED strip built into it you can actually control each LED individually or together to have sweeping functions for notifications blinking random colors you can do all kinds of stuff for infinite number of notification settings and with the three buttons on the switch you can actually configure up to something like 24 4:30 buttons by using the combinations and have the switch buttons dude different things based on lighting. The firmware and home assistant has about a hundred configurable settings for everything on how it operates.

[@dvwebster]

Thanks for this thought provoking video. As others have pointed out, turning the power off to smartbulbs that use Zigbee or Z-Wave for control is likely to disrupt their mesh, which could slow or disconnect other devices that connect through them. Probably best avoided. Smartbulbs that use WiFi will not have this problem since none are repeaters. For a smartswitch to function as you are suggesting with their load open circuit (lights off) they must have power at all times, which will need a Neutral connection in the switch back box. I don't think any of the no-Neutral type of smartswitches in the UK offer a decoupled load and control switch feature. It is also important to point out that smart (or dumb) dimmers cannot ever be used with smartbulbs, as they will not control brightness, and may even damage the bulb. It is not generally realised that no-Neutral smartswitches with electronic load switching (i.e. no relay) are also not recommended for use with smartbulbs, since they act more like a dimmer that is never fully on, or fully off. This is because they cannot deliver 100% power to the load in their "on" state as they must retain some power for their own operation, and must also draw a small current through the load in the "off" state to remain operational.

[@nickbailey202]

Please clarify. What's the point is buying dimmable smart bulbs then? Why are they sold? "It is also important to point out that smart (or dumb) dimmers cannot ever be used with smartbulbs, as they will not control brightness, and may even damage the bulb."

[@dvwebster]

@@nickbailey202 smartbulbs are not dimmable with an external dimmer. They need a constant full power supply for their receiver to function and then the brightness, and typically colour too, is controlled by their connected smart platform.

[@nickbailey202]

@@dvwebster In other words, smart dimmer switches shouldn't be used?

[@dvwebster]

@@nickbailey202Choose smartdimmers for dumb white light bulbs, choose smartbulbs for tuneable white or full colour light. But any kind of dimmer (dumb or smart) reduces the power available, and smartbulbs require constant full power to work, so do not mix with smartbulbs. However there are some smartdimmers that can be used as a wireless control for smartbulbs, instead of dimming the power to the load. These typically need a Neutral connection and are not common in the UK.

[@nickbailey202]

@@dvwebster Okay that makes sense. It also complicates several of the things I've set up. If you wouldn't mind entertaining an internet stranger, maybe you can help with my use case? In my bedroom I have an overhead light with two dumb bulbs. They don't provide a great deal of light so I added two wall sconces that plug in. Since I don't want to have to operate those on the corded switch, I installed two smart bulbs. I replaced my wall switch with a smart dimmer switch. That switch turns everything on and off. Ironically, the dimmer has worked fine on the smart bulbs but has been spotty on the dumb bulbs. Would you suggest simply replacing it with a regular smart switch (one that doesn't dim)?

[@andymok7945]

I have a scenario in my photo editing room. I have a light fixture with 6 IKEA Zigbee GU10 bulbs. I just found and bought a zigbee smart switch that allows an always power on mode to provide power to the lights, similar to the switch you have. I don't have a neutral wire in the switch box and WiFi smart switch require a neutral wire. I also created two light groups (even and Odd).

[@dillonstandley4330]

I have both cync bulbs and switches throughout my house. Having both the switch and bulbs in the house allows me to have control over the bulbs at anytime and sense its on the same app it's seemless. It also allows Mr to have as much control over the lights as I want. I cannot say enough good things about cync

[@suzithewitch]

I use the Third Reality Switch on my light switches. It turns "dumb" lights into smart lights. Also, I've got a routine that if someone (a theoretical "guest" that we might have someday) pushes the button to turn off a smart light, the switch waits a bit, turns back on, and then the automation turns off the smart lights. A nice point is that there's no wiring needed, and they pop off if I need access to the switch for some reason. They're also a lot cheaper than traditional smart light switches and renter friendly if people need that :)

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Thanks for sharing! Nice renter friendly setup!

[@patrickpaganini]

Nice video. The trouble with double presses is that it means if you do a single press there is inevitably a pause before response because the software is waiting for a possible second press before it reports back a single press. This is probably why Philips Hue never use a double press for anything - just a "long press", so a single press is reported instantly after button release. I have always found this slight delay drives me absolutely nuts.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I hear you on that! I personally only really use it to toggle off the lights so the delay isn't that annoying

[@MortenHermansenNo]

My family complained about that as well. We use long press for dimmed, click for normal and double click for full brightness. It solution was to go to the dimmed stage as soon as the switch is pressed, then fade up to normal if the paddle was released within 800ms and no new press within 200ms. It feels instantaneous, and at the same time don't blind us at night.

[@guyvxt]

@@MortenHermansenNo Hi, What switch and bulbs are you using for this setup as it sounds like what I require. I don't require full dimming control of a rotary like the Candeo, but I would like to have a full brightness and then a dimmed setup for when watching movies or for nightlights.

[@MortenHermansenNo]

I'm using Wiz bulbs and random LED strips controlled by Wled. But maybe the interesting part is the light switch, where I've put Shelly relays in always on detached mode. The rest is done with automations...

[@yessi_r6537]

Another great use case of combining smart switches and smart bulbs is complete control of exactly which bulbs come on. In my media room, I have 4 bulbs and 4 sconces. I can determine if I just want the bulb over the snack area to come on while watching a movie or the back lights only or all the lights. Also in my kids room I have a pair of bulbs that double as night lights/notification lights so that they can activate a night light with a single button press or just use the lights normally with traditional switch presses and not interfere with any other scenes that are being used.

[@RichieCastellano]

THANK YOU!

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

You're welcome!

[@michaelstembridge]

Hi Alan, firstly many thanks for the video(s) as I am just starting out on my smart home journey. You mentioned that you wanted the lights to work even when the zigbee coordinator/HA is down, and this is something that I would like as well. To this end I am trying to see if the Aquara H1 (no neutral) and Candeo dimmer (no neutral) support direct binding to lights, but there doesnt seem to be any information (even on the manufacturers web sites) about whether this feature is supported or not. And if so is it only in certain modes of operation eg doesnt work if H1 in detached/decoupled mode. And if binding is supported does the binding work to any zigbee bulb or do I need to source specific zigbee bulbs and look out for a specific feature in the specs? Any help gratefully received.

[@boudewijndejong9134]

Had my house build to be smart, which means: no switches. That also means the every light point has its own cabeling to the utility room. In there I have them individually connected to either shelly4PRO's to be able to cut the power, even if there's a smart bulb connected, or Quibino Z-wave dimmers when a dimming action is needed. This will always allow me to cut the power selectively to a light point without interfering with other light points or systems. This can come in handy when one needs to reset a smart bulb in a difficult location. I have a few Innr bulbs which are really horrible in loosing their connection and needing to be re-paired. I will always try to make sure there is only one decision maker in the system (in my case Home Assistant). That means, would there have been a switch, it would not be allowed to cut the power on a push, similar to your pass-through button. Anyone can try anything from anywhere, only HA decides what happens.

[@bmxmellie1]

Love the suggested green light for the washing machine. Ik implemented this and the wive was not into it at first but has adopted is and can't without is 😂

[@notureaveragemiss]

how do you do it? our washer is upstairs so it might be hours before someone moves it over to the dryer (usually do a load in the morning and hopefully move it over before bed, unless we forget!)

[@waynenocton]

Have you ever messed around with tasmota? It’s very powerful, I have the double press function in just about every room opening my sliding glass door to let the dog in and out, and a ton of other things I do use the detach mode too, mostly for ceiling fans, and annnoyingly, the switches always seem to want to be opposite of normal, up should be on dang it lol. Travis’ channel shows a way to make normal US switches of one certain brand become press and release, which is awesome, but I haven’t been able to find them.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I use Tasmota in a few smart plugs, but never tried on a switch yet. It's super powerful though, I love it

[@clairerovic]

Tasmota also supports sending commands using UDP, so in effect you become independent of Home assistant. Thanks Google --- Device Groups uses UDP multicasts, followed by UDP unicasts if necessary, so updates are fast. Also UDP does not require the source and destination to establish a three-way handshake before transmission takes place. Additionally, there is no need for an end-to-end connection.

[@waynenocton]

@@HomeAutomationGuy definitely ups the nerd value lol

[@DominicVilleneuve]

Another reason for using a combination smart switch and smart bulbs. I’m my bathroom the light switch turn on the light fixture with 4 bulbs and the feeling fan. There only one switch and it can’t be a dimmer because of the fan. So I used IKEA tradfri dimmable smart bulbs to dim them automatically after sunset and an Aqara no neutral smart switch to turn on the fan and light on movement detected by an Aqara movement detector. The inability to dim the lights in the bathroom had been bugging me for a long time and this is the only easy solution I could come up with…

[@MrDBT85]

Literally been thinking about this this week so I'm happy to see the vid. My reason for wanting it is in our bedroom we have 2 smart led lights (the ones you can't just change a bulb on), they are great and I can set them to 1% for the evening routines or whatever and my wife can ask Alexa for Makeup and then the light of a thousand suns fills the room for half an hour before turning off. The problem is you walk out the room and turn the damned thing off at the wall and now it all fails, as you mention in your video. I'm not a huge fan of the smart switch appearance so will just get a Shelly or Sonoff relay which I can decouple and do it that way. The downside is then that you cannot manually cut the power any more in case of a connection glitch, but that's less likely to piss me off I think. Just also a general thank you for your content. Your videos are the reason I managed to get HA up and running with docker compose and stuff and everything just worked, unlike plenty of other videos.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Glad you found my videos useful! Comments like that keep me going! And that sounds like a great set of automations that you've configured there. Hopefully as we move into the future, smart switches will become less ugly ;)

[@jasonwhite2775]

There are many reasons for using smart switches with smart bulbs. In my case, the switch outlet is not where I want to put my lamp. I'm sure I could set an automation to turn on/off an additional smart bulb, but now I lose an outlet that will turn off when the switch is turned off. Moreover, I do want to control 2 lamps with one smart switch. My other use case is to have automation in the bathroom. I want the light/exhaust fan to work together, independently, timer and by humidity. One-click up, both ON. One-click down, both off. Double tap down, 15 min. exhaust fan only. Lastly, the fan automatically turns on or stays on till the humidity gets to a certain threshold(from a humidity sensor). There are many practical uses. I was wondering, can you bypass the relay with a jump wire or just connect the load/ common/ neutral ( I'm not sure of the correct names of the wires) directly to the power-in side of the switch? This seems like it would bypass the relay and power the switch for automation

[@federicovaccarono6032]

Hello Alan! Thank you for your video :) Unfortunately my smart switches don't support decoupling mode (Bticino, Italy) so I managed to solve the issue of offline smart bulbs adding a small LED indicator light (220v) into the socket box. Practically, the smart switch is wired to switch on/off the small LED - it doesn't work if it doesn't detect any lamp connected - and the actual lamp instead is wired to the L input of the switch, so always on. Then, two HomeKit automations to switch on/off the smart lamp when the smart switch is turned on/off. It works!

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Interesting solution, thanks for sharing!

[@accordxtc319]

Great video but unfortunately in North America, the Aqara switches don't do any of these options

[@kennygraveson2007]

I've been using the kasa hs100 and I can put a Shelly 2.5 behind them. It's a tight fit, and the #12 wires can be a pain to land. But once it's up, the detached switches calling a routine to set the lights to zero or whatever variable brightness I want has been good.

[@accordxtc319]

@@kennygraveson2007 Nice, I prefer Zigbee over Wifi

[@kennygraveson2007]

@@accordxtc319 same. I wish I'd gotten something else, but I got several on sale all at once. 😂

[@clintbarton2280]

Hi, great video as I’m looking to do this in my house to separate the landing and the entrance light bulb from one switch. Do you know if the decoupling mode has been added yet to ZHA before I buy the switches?

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I'm not sure. I've not tried it since testing. Hopefully someone in the comments will be able to help!

[@marsh5953]

I have the Candeo Smart ZigBee dimmer switches. I use home assistant on a hyper-V VM as the ZigBee controller. It works well. However I would like to add some colours so I am thinking about ordering some Philips Hue bulbs. The Candeo website lists the switches as "Philips hue compatible" but I don't really know what this means. The desired end goal is I can still use the switches to turn lights off or on and adjust the brightness, however I want to be able to use HA to change colours as well. I know the switch won't be able to change colours. Am I barking up the right tree?

[@andrescalapt_]

Hi Alan, I have the Aqara E1 switch with Neutral and I have the option for decoupled but if I do that I can't use the switch ot turn on the smart light anyway. What I'm doing wrong? Thanks

[@steffenfrost995]

Do sonoff relays have this detached mode to keep the power on?

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I don't think you'd need it, you'd just leave the relay on.

[@videoviewer570]

I want to run automations for direct wired under-cabinet smart lights (GE Cync Reveal Light Bars (Matter/2.4GHz)) for dimmed kitchen night lights. My wife wants to manually switch on lights for kitchen task lighting. So... I think I need a smart light switch with a dimmer to operate in "decoupled" mode so the automations don't get messed up. Aqara has a light switch with dimmer but I don't think it will play well with the GE Cync Reveal Bar Lights. Comments? Thanks!

[@djneo92nl]

I have a few switches with Shelly’s behind them. And hue light. Cause they allow to separate the relay and the switch. So I have the light always powered. And the button just runs an automation to control the light

[@markvk42]

Thanks for the video, its amazing how tech moves on so quickly, im looking at this because my wife want to be able to still operate lights if the network fails (dont understand why a torch wont do... smart one of course) as i work away for 6 months of the year and dont always have a remote connection, i can understand why. some very interesting new products from aqara in the form of the new z1 pro and magic panel se starting to become available.

[@caiodelgadonew]

Hey alan or everyone, have anyone used Aqara E1 no neutral? the decoupled mode is acting weird, stopping to talk with the HA, even that the light and other devices are reporting well...

[@NunoMota09]

Great video as always, thank you! What about the following scenario: Philips Hue smart bulb connected to dumb switch. I don't want people to turn the switch off (thus preventing the bulb from turning on through the app or automations), but want people to still be able to turn the light on or off when they want. Therefore, I was thinking of replacing the dumb switch with something like the Aqara switch (the "Smart Wall Switch" one, not the "Wireless Remote Switch" one). And no, I don't want to use something like the Philips Hue switch next to the dumb switch :) This way, people could still turn on/off the light as normal whenever they want, and all the automations would still work. This makes perfect sense to me, but am I missing something? I guess the "Wireless Remote Switch" would make sense here, but I want the switch to continue working even if the internet/hub are down. I guess in this case a smart relay would be the best option?

[@MarekBury]

Im also using both, smart switch(or rather doorbell switch with smart relay) and smart lights, but with a little different configuration. I am flashing esphome to sonoff mini relay. Smart bulb is mainly something from philips wiz. In esphome I configure shot click to binary sensor + turn on relay and long press to turn off relay. Next i create automation on binary sensor to toggle the light. So if network of ha goes down turning ligth on works just like that. and to turn it off i have to hold if for a second. Im sure that it would be possible to reconfigure it to just toggle on single click if connection to ha is not working, but this is how it works for me now is fine.

[@slaughterhammer]

be aware that some smart bulbs act as zigbee router. I had some problems with some other sensors dropping of the net because their favorite router was offline.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

That's true. My mesh is mainly made up of my wired Zigbee Switches, with only a handful of lights. I wish you could disable router mode on the Hue (or other) Zigbee bulbs

[@Largemitch]

I flashed my shellys with ESPHome, they use home assistant for adaptive lighting, when it is connected but turns into a dumb switch with no WiFi or api connection

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

That's cool!

[@nickolay414]

Smart! How is this not a feature of the default firmware!

[@smartassist9700]

Can you program switch to cut on/off a few times a night when away from home?

[@balalaika1234]

Alan, If I understood right: smart light switch, eg Aqara H1 in decoupled mode does not work as physical switch. I tried - and by default there is no reaction when I press it. In order to make it work we need to create integration which will toggle smart light bulb. Important - it should toggle smart bulb directly not the switch itself, because switch will break the physical circuit and lamp will be powered off. I have only one concern with this setup - if something goes wrong with HA machine, eg it crashes, Z2M won't work anymore as well as this automation - it won't be possible to turn the light by pushing switch physically. Same goes for setup with regular switch and relay in detached mode.

[@Marco-cz7rb]

i need this as a kind of relay for a existing stadnard switch

[@wikimusic2969]

I have installed HA on docker use my old hp mini. I am follow tutorial from your video to install (portainer, ble, etc. Maybe next video can you show how to migrate sqlite to postgresql?

[@1MW9]

mind sharing how to fade in and out lights when turning on and off? my lights just goes completely off when i switch it off

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I do it via Home Assistant. The decoupled switch triggers either a Home Assistant scene, or a light.turn_off service action with a transition time set so it fades.

[@PaWu92]

Are there any other options?

[@deonh9303]

Nice Video Alan - thx! Like John below I'm also building at the moment and plan to have Shelly dimmers for my main light zones or areas in the house as my wife absolutely wants a button to press and things need to work even if the wifi is down. My challenge is that I need to control these circuits from 3 switches in different areas of the house. Shelly has the 4 button switch with i4, but I'm not sure if this is going to fit with the rest of the switches. Any smart switch recommendations that could address the problem?

[@nikolay.kr.nikolov]

Hi Alan. Following your smart switches video, I also decided to go with the Aqara H1 switch (no neutral). However in Home Assistant, I don't see a trigger option based on double clicking the switch. I am using a relay mode. Is it the case that double click is only available in decoupled mode? Thanks!

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I think you're right that it's only available in decoupled mode

[@robmarshall7303]

Enjoying this series, but what about combining smart switches with motion sensors? I'm trying to figure out the best way to have a smart switch override motion sensors and it's giving me a headache!

[@yessi_r6537]

If you mean controlling if the motion sensor is active or not, I use inovelli switches combined with a helper in home assistant that toggles a "motion mode" of sorts that determines if a switch/area uses the motion sensor for instances where I may not want the occupancy mode to be on or to override lights being set to a certain brightness level. Then when I'm done I just press it again and it reverts back to its previous motion/lighting config.

[@TristynRusselo]

"Switching Off" hue/zibee/zwave bulbs can break your mesh network, causing other bulbs to stop functioning. Dont use a smart switch on smart bulbs. Better idea is to use a smart button, or a smart switch that can disable the realy. The Inovelli Red Series smart switches have an option to disable the relay that controls power to the light fixture. This allows constant power to pass through the switch to the light fixture so that smart bulbs installed in the fixture never lose power. It is THE feature that makes the Inovelli Red unique and an ideal choice for controlling smart bulbs with a smart switch. When you press the on/off paddle with this option enabled, instead of directly switching the power to the bulbs, a message can be sent to a hub to turn the smart bulbs on/off.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

That's true. My mesh is mainly made up of my wired Zigbee Switches, with only a handful of lights. I wish you could disable router mode on the Hue (or other) Zigbee bulbs

[@SmithyScotland]

Sending you words of encouragement for your excellent videos.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Much appreciated

[@viktorkalap]

Hi there is an other major usecase why. In my case imagine that every signle light or led or what ever that emit light has to be CCT , you want to be able set the temperature or brightness, anytime and any controll panel or physical swich , some of the ligts are zigbee chandelier that you have no option than use of the smartwich, if you want to be able to control the light tenperatur and brigthness any time in conbination with temperature or color you have no option. Or do you ? Thanks viktor Great videos btw thx for your channel.

[@CFPANDRADE]

I have a question, what happens if HA fails, can you still turn on/off the lights with the switch?

[@evancombs5159]

With the way he set it up no you can't. I haven't done this so maybe it isn't possible in HA, but I would leave the switch in dumb mode then create a group in HA of the switch and light. Then if I turn on the light from a smart device (phone, Alexa, etc) it would turn the switch on then the light on. There is a trade off here, though, it would mean if the switch is off there would be a delay in turning on the light when the switch is off. From my understanding this won't work with dimmable switches unfortunately.

[@EsotericArctos]

I use smart globes where I want to control colour temperature of the light. If I am not wanting to change the colour temperature I use smart switches. Living areas are a good example of where I want the colour temperature to change from a cooler white during the day to a warm white in the evening. I've used a few smart switches as scene controllers instead of normal switches for a physical switch on a smart bulb, but unfortunately this still relies on the home automation system being available as the "Switch" just becomes a scene controller and not an actual switch. If HA dies, the switch stops working. Not ideal, but I think this is the only way to make a smart globe work with a physical switch.

[@bat3332]

anything in pipleline to update the blog on the presence detection of resident group since the ui seems lot different to current HA to what it was the at the blog time

[@fredericomachado4116]

Yea, but you still depend on your HA hub. If it goes down the switch doesn't work. I want to use the switch as fail proof option, and the bulb to dim.

[@fredericomachado4116]

I guess what I want is to be able to combine a bulb and switch as one virtual device in HA, and choose a bulb that connects ASAP once powered on.

[@BrandonDoyleMN]

Zigbee Binding is a solution for that

[@aigarius]

Some switches, like Shelly have local scripting allowing to detect when HA is not working and adjust. I wrote one such script ;)

[@fredericomachado4116]

​@@BrandonDoyleMN I will look into that. Thanks.

[@fredericomachado4116]

​@@aigarius thanks for the tip

[@lawrencemanning]

I have IKEA dimmers infront of the original hard switch using a magnetic mount. If HA failed (it hasn’t yet) I could pull off the dimmer and toggle the light until it reset itself. It’s not a perfect solution but OTOH every light is RGB/dimmable, which I find to be compelling. Not had good results pairing switches and bulbs; the resultant pair doesn’t want to then join HA. But it could be my ZHA/ConBee setup.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

My brother uses those exact dimmers in his rental. It's a really clever solution! I've also struggled to pair switches and bulbs. But once accidentally paired a hue dimmer with the bathroom smart switch. Every time I pressed a button on the dimmer the bathroom switch would toggle. My partner was not amused 🤣

[@NunoLeitaoTheEpiq]

are u me? I also have the magnetic mounts glued in front of the dumb switch. Indeed it's not the ideal, but it works good enough for wife.

[@Electrum]

But can you configure those switches in Apple Homekit ?

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Possibly!

[@lucassledsens1107]

Does this mean you can use the Aqara H1 switch which cannot dim, but with smartbulbs you can? 😀

[@stephendrake4821]

Hi, mate does decouple mode still work in HomeKit

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I'm not sure sorry. I don't use HomeKit

[@Sakistns]

Does H1 zigbee remote work with ZHA?

[@djante17]

Does the decoupled mode for Aqara H1 switches work even without neutral wiring?

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Yes, it does.

[@djante17]

@@HomeAutomationGuy Thanks, I've read that the aqara switches without neutral require 3W-5W minimal load and sometimes the switch do not function reliability (in decoupled mode) when the smart bulbs are set to off, did you experience any issues with that? Also do you happen to know if is the 'minimal load' running through the switches is determined by the Smart Bulbs in off state or by other factors?

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

@@djante17 I've not experienced that. I have a non neutral Aqara H1 single gang with 6x Hue GU10 smart lights hanging off it in Decoupled mode and it's working fine so far 🤞

[@djante17]

@@HomeAutomationGuy Nice, thanks for the updates will try it out for myself then! Good stuff!

[@djante17]

​@@HomeAutomationGuy actually have another question if you don't mind, is the decoupled mode able to set for each individual rocker on a 3 gang switch or will it be for the entire group or rockers?

[@milesoft]

I see that you use Aqara H1 switches linked to Home Assistant without an Aqara hub. I've been doing the same but recently I've bought a couple more H1 switches (Dual with neutral) and I cannot link them to the Zigbee Network no matter what I do, have you ever had a similar issue? Do you know of anything which might have changed?

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Oh no! I've not bought any new ones recently, but I've re-paired my old ones quite a few times and they've never been problematic. How frustrating! 😔

[@milesoft]

@@HomeAutomationGuy Well I've bitten the bullit and orderred a few more. I'm going to set up a test rig and see if I can get them to pair. In case something has changed.

[@milesoft]

@@HomeAutomationGuy I set them up in a test rig and paired them to an Aqara M2 to update the firmware, now it works as good as gold. Interesting thing I learned, the back plate of the switch is just to supply power and contains the physical relays. The Zigbee stuff is all in the front plate containing the buttons.

[@aigarius]

Actually, I just realized that my blog post about combining Shelly with smart bulbs (just google "aigarius shelly" to find it) went a step further than you did - I wrote a ShellyScript that detects if my Home Assistant is offline and switches back to attached mode automatically.

[@BrandonDoyleMN]

Brilliant!

[@MortenHermansenNo]

That's a great fallback solution!

[@RealLordy]

Hi, I saw you are using a lot of shelly equipment. I was wondering if it is possible to use shelly to control lights which are currently controlled from 3 places with physical switches (e.g. upstairs light is controlled from downstairs switch at the staircase, upstairs switch at the staircase and a third switch just next to the door of the master bedroom. If so, do you have advice on which model of shelly to use for this? (any documentation on how to do the wiring is also welcome. I do quite a lot on electricity myself, but I have currently zero knowledge on shelly) By the way: your channel is top. This is one of the very few channels which provides actual useful information on how to do things in a house on a practical level 🙂. I am visiting this place on a regular base since I discovered it a couple of weeks ago. Tops!!!!

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I'm not an expert on two/three way switching, but I've seen some wiring guides online for this scenario so I know it's possible with most Shelly relays. I'm sorry I can't help further. Glad you like my videos though!

[@christophercrowley7574]

I have aqara and Xiaomi switches in wireless mode so when I press the button it turns on lamps with the ceiling light

[@seanpower8773]

Hey Alan, I’m using the same 2 gang switch but can’t seem to get the option for double click, even in decoupled mode. Any idea?, Thanks 4:39

[@seanpower8773]

Ignore me, you just have to perform the action (i.e. double click the switch) and then HA discovers it

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Ah yes. That's true. That's the same with many devices that use Actions in HA

[@PhelipeRochaPH]

I was looking exactly for that! Unfortunately, seems that aqara just offers the EU format for their wall switch, which are square shaped. Since I'm from brazil, our electrical switch boxes are rectangular, similar as to those in the US. Does anyone know of another smart switch with decoupled mode that fits in the rectangular format?

[@PhelipeRochaPH]

@trriss Thanks! I will take a look at those

[@wissensfrosch]

Reasons for smart light switches with smart bulbs? Well, I still don‘t really like to yell at voice assistants. I have none in my home besides smartphones and tablets. Also, I don’t run around with my smartphone in my hand all the time. Not everywhere do motion sensors or door sensors work. So, it would be a lot more convenient to have a switch that you can easily reach for when necessary. Also, the wife approval factor of smart lighting is a lot higher with physical switches. I’m now getting a Phillips Hue wall module to be able to use my existing switch (because of unified design of switches throughout the house).

[@yannicktube]

community please help, i have momentary rocker switches, with every push they pass thru 24v to an relay. (push on push off). I can't find any solution to make this work with zigbee. crucial I remain the original switches and the control via HomeAssistant. help thanks!

[@jpam2000]

i live in a old house, which i am renting. I use this conbination in my bedroom. the room had a ceiling fan with three lights. How ever i always feel hot. So i have the smart switch to control the power to everything. During the day there is no point to have the lights on when the fan is working. so i turn them of throught my phone. I also like to play with the diferent colors of the lights.

[@MrValles10]

I currently have around 55 smart bulbs, resulting in 18kWh/month or 216kWh/year. So that's €54 for me a year just for having smart lamps. Add the stand-by power consumption of my Sonos speakers and other stuff that's normally not turned off, and it does have a big impact.

[@lawrencemanning]

I assume that €54 figure is for the case that the lights are powered but not generating any light. I don’t think that’s too bad actually for the functionality you are getting. For the Sonos speakers, how about putting them, and other nearby devices, on a smart plug? The draw on those when off, with a good one, should be very small and probably not more then a single smart bulb.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Oh yeh. Sonos draw so much power on standby. All my Sonos devices are on a smart switch that gets turned off at night or when we leave the house

[@TheKauff]

Anyone have input on smart switches for renters? The best I can come up with are Switchmate devices that fit over the current physical switch, but they're apparently out-dated now & no longer supported by Home Assistant. 😢

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

You can get a physical switch cover that fits a Hue Dimmer Switch, and that works well with HA. I used those in my old rental apartment.

[@hansr370]

Anyone know how much power smart switches actually use when in the off state

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Depends on the model. I measure the power usage of a bunch of them in my Smart Switches comparison video

[@hansr370]

@@HomeAutomationGuy Thank you, Yeah i found the bit where you mention the power haha, it is so insignificant that I dont think I will worry about it.

[@nigelmainsail]

My ideal would be to have decoupled switches for more power monitoring data but I don’t have neutral and rent. For smart bulbs I wire always-on in the existing wall switch back box and replace with an aqara h1 wireless. Really enjoying your videos, especially in how you use and config home assistant!

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

Yeh, you have to make compromises when you rent. Is wiring "always on" legal in your country? It would definitely be against code here. Glad you like the videos!

[@nigelmainsail]

@@HomeAutomationGuy wish you hadn’t asked as I’m not actually sure about code and… am in the UK :) While it’s a absolutely a compromise, I console myself with the fact that I can actually do something and that zigbee sensors/battery-based switches/etc are quite portable and will likely have a place in my own endgame house later on.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

@@nigelmainsail 🤫😬😊🫣

[@robert.wigley]

@@HomeAutomationGuy We moved into a new (5 years old) house last year, so wiring standards are recent and also had an EICR done after moving in, with no issues flagged. The electrician that wired the house originally, not the owner, had hardwired one of the lights to be always on, which would suggest it's not against regulations/code. Having said that, there is actually no hardwired switch to the light either, just a wireless one, so not sure if that makes any difference.

[@quimquim89]

Another reason. Sometimes, I just like using a wall switch instead of having to call alexa, or whatever, or having to look where I put my phone to turn a light off.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I agree!

[@AS-os3lj]

This power situation is annoying me and I am still searching for a solution that is working for me.

[@danielwolman]

i bought an aqara h1 because of this video and it wont stay connected/powered.

I don't understand the point of this. Getting an expensive switch with an also expensive bulb. You could just permanently wire the light to mains instead, so the smart bulb always gets power, and then just use a wireless switch. I believe there are wireless switch holders which can be installed into an ordinary light switch wall hole.

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

I'm not sure if you're legally allowed to permanently wire a light circuit in the UK.

@@HomeAutomationGuy that's interesting, I never would have thought this is regulated.

[@mioszhermanowicz6986]

And what about the delays? You are talking about guests being able to use your smart home as they know what they are doing, but when you are using decoupled mode there is probably a ~150ms delay, which gives you people pressing the button on and on because the light didn't turn on / off immediately. I have got zigbee switches, and this delay is making anyone who visits my house, asking the question, how to turn off / on the light 😅😅

[@HomeAutomationGuy]

It's a good point. Most of my smart switches are controlling "dumb" bulbs, so guests don't experience the delays. I do in my office though and it is annoying

[@johnscott8271]

At .5 watts That’s 12 WH per day or 4380WH per year. At 8 cense per 1000? That’s a cost of 45 cense per year to run a smart bulb.

[@Cenzo4u]

Guys, you can't have RGB lights with Scenes and all without BOTH smart lights and smart switches. How is this not obvious?

[@zinetz]

это крайне странный вопрос - зачем использовать умную лампочку с умным выключателем; очевидно если у меня есть умная лампочка - я хочу ею пользоваться; зайти в комнату и включить свет, выходя из комнаты выключить - каждый раз доставить телефон, запускать приложение? бредовая идея, поэтому когда я подключал у себя дома умные лампочки/ленты (их не так много на самом деле, потому что обычно все что нам надо - это яркий белый свет), я не задумывался над тем, что я делаю, а просто "отвязал" реле от кнопки и добавил пару сценариев может ли быть, что мне повезло и что это возможность выключателей aqara?..

[@eloimartinez9446]

1 pound a month its 24 pounds in 2 years, enough to buy some smart switches and making a good excuse for reason 1 and 2

[@vaddiraju26]

Hey!!! First comment here...

[@rambowembo5007]

You're very lucky, congrats 🎉