USS The Sullivans sinking: Important dry dock and funding updates!

[@jeffgrier8488]

Thanks for the update Shane, it's always good to hear that things are moving along in a forward direction!

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thank you, Jeff...it's important to keep moving forward for sure. We wanted to give updates that we haven't given before. There's a lot of movement with other ships heading to dry dock and a question is "why isn't The Sullivans yet?"...so, here are the reasons why!

[@michaelphillips8238]

Thanks for the update, Shane. I was surprised by some of the numbers for the prep work that needs to be accounted for, but I'm glad that planning is still going forward. Keep up the good work

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thank you, Michael. We have a very unique (and expensive) nesting here at the Naval Park. It's something we may look at moving forward over the next five to 10 years. Appreciate your continued support!

[@nbixler]

Good presentation Shane. Keep up the good work!

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Neil - Thanks for your support! Still a lot of work to go!

[@Supersean0001]

That's really GREAT news! Now only if Olympia could somehow manage to get into drydock too . . .

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thank you very much! What a beautiful ship for sure. I will have to research the status of Olympia...I don't offhand know her current condition!

[@bluerebel01]

Hello Shane, I had a suggestion in mind. If you need to take the vessel to one of the more distant dry docks, have you considered utilizing a heavy-lift ship? This would allow the vessel to be transported out of the water for the lengthy journey, potentially providing a safer option. I am unsure of the cost, but it may be worth looking into. Thank you for the update, and I am eagerly anticipating more in the future.

[@frankbarnwell____]

Might be a delicate operation with USS The Sullivans, hull condition. I'd thought that. Or carried between barges for more buoyancy.... or something.

[@bluerebel01]

​@@frankbarnwell____ Transporting a vessel via a heavy-lift ship is comparable to a dry dock. The ship will be placed on keel blocks, just like in a dry dock, to prevent any potential damage during transport. If the vessel's hull is fragile, tugs could pose a risk of causing further damage or even sinking. On the other hand, a heavy-lift ship can gently lift and lower the vessel, making it a safer and more secure option for transport.

[@PixelmechanicYYZ]

They may still need to tow her if they decided to go with a heavy lift ship. The water needs to be deep enough for the ship to submerge under the cargo and im not sure if the river has the depth or the room , those ships are massive! They may have to tow her to somewhere that has the depth in order to complete the operation.

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Great conversation bluerebel and frank. I believe a floating dry dock\heavy lift ship was explored. It was roughly in the $3 - $4 million range to get one here. I wasn't involved but I remember it being mentioned in a staff meeting or two...certainly we would worry about her under her own weight out of water...but, you also raise good points - management decided on this course of action.

[@stephenb6054]

Good news. When I visited the USS Slater in Albany during the summer of 2021, I was intrigued by there use of the 'Donut' style floating, ship's mooring guards. maybe something you can utilize for the Croaker, Little Rock and Sullivans in the future. Unlike the fate of the USS Clamagore that was at Patriots Point, (the sub was towed to Norfolk and scrapped,several years ago) Could the Croaker be saved and placed on land? Like the USS Drum (near the Battleship Alabama) in Mobile AL

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thanks for your comments! Unfortunately, we don't have the real estate to expand to place any of our ships on land. Our part in total is about 3.6 acres, and that's including our Memorial Garden with 15 monuments honoring various branches and servicemen and women, and our two buildings and yard! USS Alabama has - forgive the pun - a boat load of space! I agree that we should look into different mooring towers, like the ones at Slater, but our weather patterns are much rougher here! Appreciate your thoughts!

[@panachevitz]

Shane, have you talked to the folks at Oshei Foundation and the Ralph C. Wilson Foundation? The Naval Park might check some boxes off for how they allocate funds.

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thanks so much. I know we've been applying for grants from the Wilson Foundation. I'm sure someone has been advocating on our behalf with Oishei too!

[@countsaturn]

what is currently under the ship? is it rock or silt? and is there any talk of while drydocked, digging it deeper so any change in the water level will cause fewer issues? Also, would there be any savings if the Sullivans and Croaker were drydocked at the same time?

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thanks for watching. It is mostly silt with a rocky bottom. The dredging will be with machines and water jets to excavate the bottom where the ships are. The Croaker going concurrently with The Sullivans is being explored. That will cut down our dry docking options, but over the long run will save us some money. Appreciate your comments!

[@Rlsummers041]

Have you thought about doing the croaker and the Sullivan same time to the same drydock?. Might be in the long term. Cheaper to do.

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thanks for your question. We've requested quotes for the same, like you ask. It would limit the dry docking options down to one, and would save up front costs. That also means we'll need to raise more money in the short term. It is something that is being explored. Appreciate it!

[@eherrmann01]

Hi Shane. I missed the live stream, but I do have a question: The 7.5 - 8.5 million for dry docking services, does that include the needed repairs, or is it just to have it in the dock? When I worked at the shipyard here in Louisiana, I seem to remember hearing that we charged ~$50,000.00 per day to drydock a ship. Thanks for the update!

[@jimmiles33]

That sounds like bottom work including wash, prep, paint, and doubler plates where they’ve determined they need them. Obviously stuff comes up during work so they will budget for that.

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thanks for asking. Yes, those figures are the quote from the dry dock to replace the hull at the waterline, and underwater. We gave them the copy of the report and recommendations from the marine surveyor, and those were the numbers. We don't want to get to dry dock first without all of the funding so she isn't in the cradle for longer than she is required!

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Work does come up, but we've identified a lot of areas now and for the survivability plan have been doing some work at the pier that would have been done at a dry dock. This will help offset some costs!

[@kirkmorrison6131]

Great news, I hope it works out as planned. I know it gets more expensive every day that she sits..

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thank you, Kirk! Appreciate your continued support...are we're hoping not too much more! Everything is negotiable.

[@kirkmorrison6131]

I will send another donation for her as soon as I can. We will get her ship shape and Bristol fashion before long.

[@nx014]

Shane - is the Buffalo Naval Park going to put an online web link for individuals to donate funds going towards the dry dock efforts ? If yes, is the Buffalo Naval Park allow to donate to cover the transaction fees as well?

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Hey nx014 - thanks. Here's the link for the donation: buffalonavalpark.org/support-us/donate/ Anything dedicated for USS The Sullivans will go towards the dry docking! I don't know if the transaction fees are covered. Appreciate your continued support!

[@drewpooters62]

Can this powerpoint be posted at the main website? Id like to download it.

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

I will discuss with management to see if they want someone to have writable access to it. Thanks for watching!

[@amnucc]

@@BuffaloNavalPark The slides can be saved as .pdf format which are read only.

[@rondencer5227]

dry dock in erice,pa

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thanks for watching...it's one of the three options being seriously explored!

[@veganconservative1109]

The more this goes on, the more I think these ships need to be out of the water. 🙁

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thanks VC...we just don't have the space anywhere to place them on land...plus without dry docking they wouldn't be able to hold their own weight. Thanks for your comment as always!

[@arloallen-dipasquale7481]

There’s a big reason this really isn’t a great option. Ships are designed to be in the water, and if they sit out of water for a substantial amount of time, they will eventually collapse under their own weight. This was discussed in regards to the USS Texas, but ultimately she will be going back into the water because of the issues with keeping a ship out of the water permanently.

[@oldtugs]

"Raised the ship and it hit the bottom." ??? That's an interesting bit of hydrodynamics. How about the fact that it started sinking the night before and that fact was mentioned during a streaming video while it was flooding. "We'll deal with it in the morning" said the man who stated the ship was flooding.

[@crazybarryfam]

What reality are you living in that you think it was at all preventable?

[@oldtugs]

@@crazybarryfam It was absolutely preventable! The oil fouling was the result of leaving fuel tank covers unsecured. Watch other pre-sinking videos that show leaks and tank covers. That is completely negligent ship husbandry by unskilled amateurs who lack any degree of oversight. Watch the video recorded the night before it sank. Shane knew it was flooding and did nothing except make a video and tell viewers it was flooding. No outside help was called. The attitude was simply "we'll deal with it in the morning." What kind of responsible manager thinks a ship hits the bottom because lake level rises? With that kind of mismanagement not a single dime of public money should ever be risked again.

[@crazybarryfam]

@@oldtugs you're an ass, go up there and volunteer if you're so skilled and knowledgeable. The only thing you're doing is coming off as a keyboard warrior tough guy. These naval museums don't operate on an unlimited budget and I'm pretty sure that period of time was devastating to the entire city of Buffalo, unless you lost the news. Was manpower just supposed to come out of thin air?

[@sirboomsalot4902]

I just watched the video you are referring to. Without the advantage of hindsight, there is no reason to think that the ship is in any danger there. As he said, he didn’t know what parts of the ship the maintenance crew were flooding, and it didn’t look like water was actively coming in. I also doubt that video was filmed the night before; videos usually come out a few days after it was filmed and there’s no mention of the sinking in that video, description or otherwise.

[@sirboomsalot4902]

@@oldtugsAlso, the ship hitting the bottom is what the Coast Guard determined it was, so take your compliants to them

[@paulfarace9595]

Don't say capsize ... it means the ship turned upside down.

[@BuffaloNavalPark]

Thank you, Paul. Noted. Listing is better.