Can This Cheese Even Be Stopped? - Speedrunning SC2

[@questioneverything8572]

I like how you added the challenge description box at the start of the video. Neat addition!

[@PiletskayaV]

100% agree!

[@CBDubz]

Man, thermals a legend. The fact he can do this with random at such a high level is absurd.

[@Viability420]

I was thinking the same. Played sc when I was young on N64. & for him to know all the builds and micros and just on the ball thinking around the whole game blows my mind. Super smart dude.

[@kadiea8664]

@@Viability420 ?? How high are you?

[@notcrazy6288]

Winter SC, or at least his older videos, is another KZbinr that's worth watching. He plays random almost exclusively, and his commentary is very funny.

[@VoltsAnBolts]

@@kadiea8664 the original starcraft was on the Nintendo 64 as well, I still have mine. Had a secret level as well.

[@TyLockton]

@@kadiea8664 show us on the rectum doll where his comment hurt you.

[@Scawtsauce]

I'm waiting for the day when you accidentally revolutionize the pro meta with one of these challenges

[@Szokynyovics]

For me, pro meta is when you are great AND you can cast your own game in a crazy entertaining way and uThermal is the fuckin' uncontested World Champion of this meta!! :D :D :D

[@cebo8284]

It's only a matter of time until it happens 🙂

[@KnightSynergy]

Not sure if this counts, but Bunny picked up a win vs DRG in the recent GSL SuperTournament with a penguin brothers timing attack.

[@natecw4164]

Given the rework to Ravens, I'd say he's already directly impacted the meta from Serral all the way down to bronze league.

[@Scawtsauce]

@@KnightSynergy he went hellbat viking?

[@Andrei2patrU]

definitely legit for the first game. This is a good approach to deciding things, maybe community posts with votes as well?

[@pukseli2270]

And it was the same attack with reinforced units. Win for me

[@OSYofRR]

Agree but I think he needs to shut off all production at 6 mins and can only use what resources are left before 6. I realize mid micro might be an issue so chat I guess has to look at the numbers.

[@K_R87]

It was legit, if it were a boxing match he had the guy on the canvass barely hanging on. If he didn’t come back and finish him it would’ve been disappointing!

[@bourgja]

I was thinking that at the 6 min time he has to send all his workers to attack as well and he can't make any more. Then he can take as long as he needs to end the game win or lose.

[@OSYofRR]

@@bourgja Problem with that is they then know he is all in and that knowledge might cause them to win some close ones in certain situations. Would be very fun to watch though :D

[@Rakstawr]

First game was a win.

[@NiceRoboT]

uT, I consulted with the Counsel of StarCraft Experts Confederation (CSEC), and we decided that your first win does in fact count. Great job!

[@northtes6176]

Your reaper gameplay is incredibly fun to watch

[@chrisgriffith1573]

I interpreted the rule as follows: If the game altering attack has not been delivered at or by 6 minutes, then you lost. IF you have placed the opponent into a loosing position, then that attack did indeed win you the game. However, if you still need go into transition, then you lost the challenge but would win the game.

[@lg6707]

Sc2 expert here. I have concluded first game is legit.

[@StrigWilson]

The experts have spoken

[@alexhramovic3819]

i would count the first game as a clear win, because you didnt tech or expand after 6 min, it was all attacking

[@vikosus]

Thank you for the content! :) I have no time to play, but watching your funky builds is incredibly enjoyable.

[@Szokynyovics]

Trust me, watching him play and listening to him cast is waaay better than playing... But I'm just a filthy casual. :D

[@arijx3453]

Hey I dont know really much about starcraft, but you make these videos just so fun to watch. Thanks for the amazing content!

[@RadimovGames]

The first game was legit, and you all in with reapers is always a win xD you are too strong with that cheese!

[@jbfairchild]

This is one of those videos that is so action packed, you are stunned the video is already over. Great games Marc.

[@amythystmiriel]

I love the rules popup near the start of the video. Would be a great addition to the regular challenges too, I think.

[@zeitgeist8870]

Every chrono takes 10 seconds off.

[@plantelo]

I think that 8 minute game should count for sure. The point isn't for you to statisfy some arbitrary rules, it's for you to have fun playing in unorthodox ways and find new strats for one of your favourite games (and to then share that fun with us, of course)

[@Alexgisme]

I love the new pop up you did for the rules of the challenge! Great add! Love watching you videos as always, and I don’t even play much (or good) SC. Haha! Keep it up man your a staple of my day!

[@InfectedFetus00]

I think the definition of "win at 6 minutes" should be: severe damage done by 6 minutes that will enable you to win the game barring any huge macro/micro mistakes. Something like this will probably have to be definition especially once you get to super tough opponents

[@OSYofRR]

Agree but I think he needs to shut off all production at 6 mins and can only use what resources are left before 6. I realize mid micro might be an issue so chat I guess has to look at the numbers

[@Ty-bz7zx]

Always bangin'! Buenos Suerte Amigo !

[@corybrown1498]

@uthermal congratulations on hitting 70,000 subscribers! Your success is well deserved!

[@Jhaiisiin]

Something that Has did for a rush was slow zealots, 1 immortal, and a prism. Was surprisingly effective, since it hits at 4 mins. Maybe worth a try should you get a chance.

[@nicolastremblay9829]

I would say it was legit, because after the attack, your opponent was clearly loosing. I think that what is wild in all of that is more the fact that your attack was so successfull in all the chaos haha.

[@gnrfan010]

i played sc1 + brood war back in the day some of the campaign and random npc games using blacksheepwall haha, dont even play sc these days but ur vids are great man always happy for the next ones ! , thanks 4 the uploads, all the best, rock on!

[@TLifeDailyVlogs]

Guys!? GUYS!?! I think we have done it! Always makes me laugh. :)

[@Robothuck]

you can hear the love for penguin brothers in his voice everytime he says it

[@nathanfielure4305]

-Never quit while you're ahead.- Never quit while you're suspiciously ahead.

[@wolvie90]

Yo you almost up to 70k subs Marc! Keep it up! Best SC2 content on the internet by far.

[@Gilvad0]

@uThermal - here's a simple, hard and fast rule that I think will force you to play the games in a way that fulfills your goal with this series: Once 6 minutes hits, you are no longer allowed to gather minerals or gas whatsoever. The moment it hits 6 minutes you have to pull all your workers. Then, just play until either you decide it's hopeless and surrender or you win. With this rule there's no question about whether a game was 'legal' or not.

[@megawaffle612]

Someone mentioned in an older video that at the 6m mark you should pull all your probes to fight. This way your attack becomes “final” and your banked resources are all that remain. If you can’t win with that then the match is a loss. Removes the conflict around “pushing the challenge rules”.

[@valpanig]

as long as you attacking, time doesn't matter; great games !

[@jaeyang9540]

Let me give you my perspective of the parameters you set for yourself with a 6 minute finish the game. That means a fast cheese, all in, proxy something. A proper definition of a SC cheese is to commit to an action or build to either end the game quickly or set up your opponents for a disadvantage or loss in a later section of the game. A cheese can be a 5 minute, 8 minute, 10 minute, 15 minute cheese. You haven’t dissected timing attacks thoroughly in the cheese arena. Cheese has variations in timing and composition of attacks. With low level players 5-8 minute cheese is possible. Higher Mmr players, you need 10-15 minute cheese and more advanced variations and setups. Pro players are thinking cheese at mid game or setups into late game and counting on micro play.

[@zachjones7745]

He also isn't accounting for all the dirty eco cheese's that can be done also making it impossible for the 6min deadline to be fully inclusive

[@boopbooperson1654]

Wesker says 7 minutes to play with them.

[@SuperNabot01]

As long as you don't ever transition out of your all in it is legit for me

[@regiscidal9078]

the cannon rush dismantler, cheesing with cannon rushes? the ladder is ours!

[@vastac13]

That last game is just disgustingly beautiful!!! Good micro and execution. He knew what he was gonna do but it was very too late to execute it on his part. Losing those scv's early on crippled him severely.

[@jeremiahcampbell2]

Legit for first game.

[@DeCamJ]

I think you should continue playing at an all-in pace. Thx for the great games and commentary!

[@ronsongathus9634]

The 1st game: we could consider it a win, as the last attack crippled the opponent, the opponent is unusually resilient and optimistic about keeping the game going (in the hope of Marc's misplay and making a comeback). If everyone, including Marc, is not confident about the win, we could put it as a draw instead of a loss. Win - has to finish off the opponent after the 6 minutes of preparation, with more supply than the opponent. Loss - has to be a failure to finish off the opponent after the 6 minutes of preparation, with even supply or less than the opponent. Draw - can be when the game is ambiguous; where the opponent ended up with less supply and crippled economy but is unwilling to give up and GG in hope of Marc making a misplay to get a comeback.

[@lekhakaananta5864]

A better rule for this challenge would be (as already suggested in the comments): Pull all existing workers for the attack at 6min. You can win by any means after that. So if you cripple them enough and they don't leave, you can remake workers and keep playing.

[@johnnydeppsky3510]

That push up the ramp in game 1 was nuts. My judgement told me it’s impossible. But that’s why I’m not gm I guess

[@duncanlst]

congradulation for 70k subscribers!

[@KumarBendrake]

Someone back me up on this challenge I just thought of. I want to see U thermal win a Starcraft game while simultaneously sipping a margarita and swinging in a hammock on the beach in Zipolite.

[@ryanwiebe1552]

First game definitely counted it makes it fun to watch when you really apply pressure after that big attack at 6mins

[@riron3906]

I think the rule should be that you pull the boys at 6:00, that would be the most objective judgement for these situations (plus it's more fun)

[@gokhundogactemur3062]

I think we can agree on that if you are winning even after the “last attack” you should continue because even if your army dies you are so much ahead there is no need to concede

[@JoeMendez579]

hey Marc, thanks to your videos I am now Diamond. Thanks for all the coaching

[@Steeeve_]

No building after 6 minutes except from units that are part of the final attack. The warp prism warping in zealots on top of siege tanks could be considered part of the attack.

[@local_cow]

This is nothing short of art

[@kevinanderson9543]

dude you never stop talking, but i absolutely love it. i can't watch other sc2 player now because of you lol.

[@omegapsi847]

As a member of the Den Haag Starcraft Committee for special affairs such as speedrunning, I can approve the first game as being legit.

[@billk2742]

And again... uThermal with the bangers!

[@overthinker8706]

Game 1 was a win. For me ending was just a continuation of final attack at 6 minute mark.

[@malbyammala1748]

lmao "any experts in the chat" -TheExpert

[@graylucas3178]

I think it should be "can't spend resources (or repair) after 6 mins. Makes it clear and easy to measure

[@SeekAndDestroyTM]

If you are not building a Nexus behind your 6 minute attack, anything goes.

[@maximk9964]

Man, those reapers are pretty scary!😱

[@Szokynyovics]

Nah, don't fear the Reaper... :P ;)

[@lilkoolaidbro]

Your first win is legitimate Thermy!

[@TTArt]

Expert backseat gamer here: Keep playing after 6 minutes if the opponent looks like he should resign. So the first game was good call.

[@zelix953]

First challenge should be a win however very loose you did cripple his eco and dashed his chances of crawling back in with a solid onslaught

[@string2155]

1st game, tanks’ splash help damaged own depot

[@peterhardie4151]

Diamond expert here. Can confirm proxy robo game was a legit win.

[@Caabooose]

the attack just continued for 2 mins

[@anialator1000000]

Yeah its tough for game 1 because you totally did a 2nd attack at 7:20 game time. By the defined rules, that attack isn't allowed unless they are refusing to leave even though they lost, but they had yet to truly lose at that point, though they had almost no chance to recover or stop your next attack. You even said at 7:48 "unless I lose with this attack", but the fact that you thought you could legitimately lose at this point is you admitting you technically failed the challenge. That said, I think it still counts as a win, since you never really let up the pressure. It was about 25 seconds after your last unit died until your Prism was over their base dropping new units down AND your 6 minute attack seriously crippled them. That feels like a valid exception (like the 5 marines at any one time for sky Terran), that you must both Cripple them with your 6 minute attack and have little down time after it until your next wave. To make it a bit more in spirit, I say you have to pull your workers too at some point for a true final last Hurah attack. That would eliminate any questions about if you won or could keep going like what happened here. If your workers were say with your 6 minute attack and the results were what we had at 7 minutes game time, there would be no question, you would have lost with no money to build more units and attack again. You would have lost there an there instead of building a new prism, several stalkers, and then warping it zealots in his base while questioning if it was valid or not. So I think the tweaked rules should be: One base only Must rush Must attack with all combat units at 6 minutes Must pull workers off mining at 7 minutes.

[@deltafire5058]

Should see if you can speed up a slow warp in by engaging a warp prism on top of them.

[@eduardosoares3116]

Play more with Protoss; it would be cool to watch

[@tylerm.9408]

Love these games and the adjusted rules!

[@_DarkEmperor]

Have You considered sending 2 Protos probes to the Terran base instead of one probe? And do some sabotage, like killing SCV building barracks and if possible prevent finishing barracks... followed by cannon rush.

[@mrkazman]

As an expert, I say to follow the will rule of cool. And game one was cool.

[@raozspaz]

I personally believe as long as you are attacking and dont back off towards your base [so no working on base buildings/eco/tech] then you are within the rules of your challenge.

[@gcl2783]

Game one was a win for the viewers, but a loss for the challenge rules.

[@Scourge24]

For the rules I suggest no building workers or infrastructure after the 6 minute mark, but the game can continue until you either win or fizzle out. Makes it so you don't have to make a judgement call on whether the game is decided.

[@Supergoon1989]

7:29 Well it's 7 minutes on the clock, and you have 1 zealot out, everything else died; The last attack failed. it NEARLY broke him, I suppose his economy is in the toilet, he could have GG'd out...and the follow up attack after 7 minutes did get him to leave. Possibly slightly outside the rules, since you did make another attack after this that started to hit just before 7 and a half minutes on the clock.

[@DracoHC]

Pro games are pretty dull most of the time, your videos are always entertaining

[@garrettc6521]

Legit win!!! Don’t quit if your about to win!

[@Chris15118]

First game was legit, you honestly thought he was basically dead, and he was. If he was better, maybe he just leaves the game after that attack.

[@NM-rz6tq]

Hey guys, looking for the other two speedrun episodes

[@studentcomposer]

You’re mind gaming your own mind games

[@imperialmarchinhumanbowels5726]

Well obviously it would do better than all the other challenges because these are all actually legitimate strategies unlike the other challenges.

[@jaeyang9540]

Every race has its strengths and weaknesses. If your playing Protoss, early game cheese are more sided with cannon rushes, chrono boosts and recall and that 1 probe can build multiple buildings. Cannons and batteries way faster than say bunkers and marines. If your looking at harassment then there are the main base cannon rushes or the block in rushes that force opponents to work from 1 base. I know you study maps but some maps have the perfect cannon rush placement to wall off. Worth looking at. Your Reaper cheese is the smoothest cheese you got. You seem to micro reapers the best. Curious why you don’t do that with other units?

[@nonphysicalshaun]

damn that last game was powerful cheese

[@di4se]

Merry christmas bro.

[@bennjj4478]

That win was legit man!!

[@whateverppl1229]

9:00 I'm 100% ok with this. The 6 minute push killed him, he had 10 workers vs your 24. personally, I wouldn't care if you extended the time to 10 minutes

[@robertandersen4164]

Perhaps the rule for games is that you begin all-in attacking at 6 minutes, and you're not allowed any macro at that point (no expansions, tech, or troop buildings).

[@jamiereid7428]

First game feels legit 👍🏼

[@Boise30]

GM's HATE HIM! USE THIS ONE SIMPLE TRICK TO DISCRASE GRAND MASTERS

[@FreshTopEnd]

wow he's a really good protoss player as well!

[@alexeyzhitkovich3418]

I can suggest more strict rules : after 6 minutes you cant do new units maybe? except terran flying buildings case. Love your content

[@alexeyzhitkovich3418]

and you can take workers to finish as well) i guess it will be very fair with no questions

[@destonwong2577]

Marines marauders own Protoss land ass. Only good counter is storm and disruptors which are so expensive

[@BernhardWeber-l5b]

Nice games! Merry Christmas everybody! 😊

[@R0binah00d]

IMO the first game counts and the win is complete legitimate.

[@720zone]

GAME 1: LEGIT - I'd have been so mad if you left. gg.

[@ryanyoung8029]

Your reaper micro is OP

[@jjrussell]

You have to pull workers at 6 minutes. Then it's not a judgment call. if you're out of money you lose.

[@zachjones7745]

In my opinion cheese's also include eco cheese's.... Eco cheese's arnt going to be the fastest hitting so I think the 6 min deadline to end the game isn't viable.... If it was viable you wouldn't have so many issues doing non eco cheese's. I would say that the rules need to be more like. 1- make sure your build will be a cheese of any sort eco or not . 2- your last attack will absolutely be at the 10min mark and you must absolutely pull all the scvs. Every game you seem to play that fudge on the rules seems to go about 7-8 min in total the additional time frame will catch all your standard cheese games and hopefully any eco cheese's also .. So in short give more time for certain builds and scenarios if you can't decide on one time for all just do separate times for all.. like proxy hatches separate from a 1-1-1 timing cheese or 3racks cheese and etc

[@ncubica]

@uThermal where in mexico are you moving on? soo cool 🇨🇦🇲🇽

[@billk2742]

Dude you need a Cowboy hat!

[@Jolly9988]

Thanks!

[@yoshthen00b]

Just stop mining and send all workers in at 6 minutes, keeps the spirit of the challenge while removing the need for "are they dead" calls