Vaccines and Herd Immunity

In the last few years the rates of vaccine preventable illness have been on the rise. This isn't just something that's happening in the United States - it's happening throughout the world. Often, these outbreaks begin with unvaccinated people. They spread through them, too. Outbreaks occur because of a breakdown in herd immunity. That's the topic of this week's Healthcare Triage.
Those of you who want to read more and see references can go here: theincidentaleconomist.com/wor...
John Green -- Executive Producer
Stan Muller -- Director, Producer
Aaron Carroll -- Writer
Mark Olsen -- Graphics
/ aaronecarroll
/ crashcoursestan
/ realjohngreen
/ olsenvideo

[@lekasallah6238]

Who came here from researching coronavirus

[@pullin3874]

leka sallah my class has to for an A level Biology assignment

[@successandlifestyle]

There is a free vaccine mini-documentary series starts Monday April 20th for those interested :) go.thetruthaboutvaccines.com/?ref=d727c980-5da3-45a4-a338-e2b1f06c2fa4&fbclid=IwAR00PiQOzXsSHIJ_D8Ed6v5mfTFykaU6ty-jihS1ZsteB_KB84TJI7D4GpA

[@scurlock1]

Yuppp... ;)

[@vivianavidal1353]

Ugh, I am...I have to do a whole project which consists of like 50 pages and I’m only in Freshman year of high school!! My school is supposed to be of advanced studies more focusing on medical stuff. Currently having a mental breakdown 😩

[@lizicadumitru9683]

@@vivianavidal1353 You hanging in there? 😊

[@TheSage555]

I feel like this channel should be 'Crash Course: Public Health'.

[@matthewdockter2424]

I'd like to second this idea. The quality of this content is huge enough that it needs to ride the popularity of the "Crash Course" brand...even though I like the wit that went into "Heathcare Triage"....the name doesn't fit anymore...we're not doing triage of any particular Healthcare system.

[@healthcaretriage]

Ha! Awesome. Make it happen!

[@tomhastherage8633]

LOVE this video. I have learned so much from your videos. Keep up the great work with your channel!

[@vidensodoacer]

Healthcare Triage those last two sentences were powerful writing. Thumbs up, writers!

[@falconseye97]

Excellent video! Everybody needs to get this message.

[@enderborn6860]

just dropin by to learn more on what herd immunity is had a vague idea but never knew for sure thank you

[@underyourbreath331]

I don't care if this is considered extreme, if someone chooses have their child remain unvaccinated for NON-medical reasons and their child dies from a preventable illness, then that parent should be charged with negligent homicide. Fuck, I'd go so far as to say if anyone dies and can be traced back to you or your child being willingly unvaccinated. How quickly society forgets how horrible these diseases truly are.

[@SlimThrull]

Yeah. We should also make it so that if you sell your car and the person that now owns it kills someone then you're held responsible. After all, even if you didn't intend any harm, it still happens. That's what we should police. Right?

[@MikkoHaavisto1]

SlimThrull Maybe if you planted a bomb with low chance of exploding in the car before selling it, this would be a fair analogy.

[@SlimThrull]

Mikko Haavisto Open flame and a slightly leaky fuel valve and any car is a bomb.

[@underyourbreath331]

Your analogy is only somewhat off. If you buy a car (you own your body) and drive it like a shit bag (don't get vaccinated, like a shit bag) and you hit and kill someone then you DO get charged with negligent homicide. After all, you didn't intend to kill anyone when you bought the car, but you killed them just as sure as you slit their throat.

[@ShiftyMcGoggles]

SlimThrull Strawman argument, what you've concocted has nothing to do with what's being discussed. Its more like a manufacturer not bothering to fix a lethal defect in a product, and then getting sued and reprimanded when it reaches the customer after 2 or more sellers.

[@meghanvyse6533]

I'm a student studying Public Health in Australia. I find it interesting when i'm reading international articles how definitions of Primary, Secondary and Tertiary healthcare differ between borders. I would really like to see a video on how your team defines these types of healthcare. Also, you should make a video on health care in Australia :)

[@LizLaurie]

Would you consider doing a video on antidepressants and pregnancy? I know it's a small niche but it would be very helpful.

[@mumafiedmustangs]

One of my favorite episodes of Law and Order: SVU was about how some parent didn't have their kid get their shots.

[@joshholton1422]

Funny how I stumbled upon this video, in one of my college classes we are doing a debate regarding vaccines. My overall opinion is that vaccines should not be mandated for children since there are medical exemptions and religious reasons. Another part that is not taken in account is just the parent's personal reason, which I believe is very important. If a parent doesn't want to vaccinate their child, that is a chance that they're taking. Parents that get their kids vaccinated should not have to worry about the un-vaccinated kids, because they're vaccinated! Yes vaccination does decrease the chance of spreading disease, which is great! But parental autonomy should be a big factor when choosing what to do to THEIR child!

[@andrews6013]

I never knew about this as a health care provider. This is something I'm going to have to pass on to my fellow medics.

[@mr88cet]

Awesome video! Thanks, Dr. Carroll. I also recently watched your videos on NNT (number needed to treat) and NNH (number needed to harm) videos. I think everybody needs to watch this video and those two! Your NNT and NNH videos made me understand how some *doctors* have made videos suggesting that the risks of the MMR vaccine are greater than the benefits. After watching your NNT&NNH videos, I realize those statements may actually, *technically* be true: The risk of a vaccine giving somebody, say, a mild fever for a day, or soreness at the injection site, probably *are* greater than the chances of contracting measles. (Those are not equal risks, mind you; I’d much prefer to have soreness at an injection site than measles!) But *why* are the chances of (much lesser) harm, possibly, higher than the chances of avoiding the (much more-dangerous) disease? Because most people *are* still doing the right thing for their communities and themselves and *are* getting their kids vaccinated on schedule! These questionable doctors’ *may* technically be quoting the stats correctly, but if so, those stats are only as they say because most *others* are doing the *right* thing, and those doctors are asking them to *compromise* those stats!

[@AStainOnAShirt]

I just got in an argument with someone online who is just flat out denying herd immunity.

[@bonesworthjohansson7884]

Same.

[@fartx211]

Next video "Healthcare in Switzerland"?? Wow I was just about to request exactly that video.

[@BenBorisenko]

Worst side effects I've gotten was from a collection of three vaccines: hepatitis a, HPV9 strain, and whooping cough. I got shoulder pain and minor swelling for two days

[@ginalepa1853]

BFDIBen? Yes..bullshit

[@reflectiononthesea9153]

That's the least of your problems - it's the long term effects that really matter - I wish you well..

[@hathejoker]

Excellent video as usual. THanks.

[@FeeblePenguin]

Very interesting, a side to vaccination that has never crossed my mind. Great video. Just to let you know though, while the 'Healthcare in Blank' videos are nice once in a while, I think this channel should inform us more on the Health itself. I'll watch the Switzerland video, but I'd prefer another like this.

[@kelleenbrx6649]

Could you talk about the follow-up vaccines? The varicella vaccine has to be re administered every few years. What implications would not getting the vaccine renewed be?

[@Strettger]

Very good video. May I be somewhat selfish and make a request for a video about the MMR/autism disinformation? Seems like a logical followup given how this decreased takeups of the vaccination.

[@MoreaGaara]

They actually have already done a video on this; look for the "vaccines don't cause autism" video.

[@Strettger]

MoreaGaara Damn they are good, doing requests in reverse time! ... Can't believe I missed it..

[@OlafoWaffle]

That horse has long been dead

[@IceMetalPunk]

Strettger It's a video made of anti-data, so it's indistinguishable from a normal video moving backwards through time. #NerdJokes #Feynman

[@Strettger]

IceMetalPunk Hmm wouldn't antidata be a collission of pure ignorance with pure fact to simply release all debate as hot air? Could be useful as an energy storage... Now Factyons, that might be what you are on about!

[@hoachanah_28]

Very informative. Thank you

[@magnusnygren8163]

Thank you for a great video.

[@SanthoshBoddu]

Please add Annotations/Links in the video for the other videos in the end

[@indigo0086]

The hell are you bouncing around all over the place for?

[@Nayde]

indigo0086 During the first few minutes as I read your comment I was like, that’s just body gesture. Few minutes later.. Me: Teleportation glitch? (CStrike) MTV video? Bad framing? I ended up liking the comment.

[@CorpeningMedia]

Yeah, it's a rather lame attempt at keeping the video visually interesting. Bad plan with a stationary background.

[@Holly-days]

To keep you awake and paying attention. ;-)

[@hillogical]

I feel this video could have been much longer. I agree with the issue at hand, but am not sure where to find more trustworthy and understandable information.

[@taybattman1036]

I like how he said that if a non-vac kid went to school and somehow got measles, it puts everyone else at risk. How would that child put everyone at risk if the vast majority of kids at school get vaccinated? So basically your at risk even if your vaccinated? Lol

[@alexkramerblogs]

Yes. They aren't 100% effective, so having most people vaccinated significantly decreases the chances. It's like seatbelts and condoms: they aren't 100%, but it sure beats not using them.

[@FriendlyJim]

I don't know why you even reply to this stuff Alex ahaha. Look, the more people vaccinated, the percentage of infections and outbreaks decrease. Simple. He explains in the video how that works.

[@laurinesax]

+Friendly Jim Well I'm glad +Alexander Kramer replied because I was wondering why there were no yellow stick people in the second illustration. I think it's still an exaggeration to portray no healthy, immunized people at all and that doesn't really help the point of the video. I'm not antivac at all, but that gave me enough doubt to brave the comments.

[@AtticusAmericanus]

Healthcare Triage needs to do a video on the misconceptions and/or an explanation on Ebola. When CNN is terrifying my fellow dead colleagues (Augustus has barricaded himself in his Mausoleum), something must be done. This video touches on the concept of outbreaks, but it is a bit generalized. A video overview of the disease and how it spreads, how it can be treated, and why it is not going to cause mass extinction would be wonderful.

[@artemisfowl52]

In a nutshell, many cases of Ebola outbreaks occur after a good portion of people get sick, and the infected have already come in contact with a lot of people. People now know enough about Ebola to safely isolate patients and control the vectors of infection. Most cases of Ebola are also exacerbated by other health conditions of the patient, and while there is no treatment that addresses the virus proper, treatment exists to take the edge off the worst symptoms and make it survivable. ...We still need to get a vaccine or more effective methods of treatment for everyone involved though.

[@Cythil]

The lack or heard immunity is also a big reason why we have so many computer viruses and spam. Quite interesting how human technology can mimic nature.

[@Lemonwastaken]

that is quite interesting.

[@MagellanRose]

You cant use that example for all. Linux machines dont use anti virus software. Its only Windows that needs it. So how would that go in a human equivalent?

[@sutra6971]

Because realty and everything is connected, it’s just beyond our comprehension to see and understand.

[@sutra6971]

@@MagellanRose AI is already being born, it’s in the early stages of evolution. Just like how we started from single celled organisms and so on. It’s crazy to think that maybe AI is a image of humans, just like we’re in the image of god.the internet is humanity, all our searches, questions and answers. Our reality.

[@SADean-ro1xn]

This is often a topic of heated debates. When asked why people choose not to vaccinate their children there are often many reasons stated, but the overwhelming sentiment is often that they are doing what they feel is in the best interest for their child. In other words they are upholding their parental duty to protect their own child. The information that they are using to base this choice may or may not be valid, but the intent is admirable. The government and the schools have a duty to the whole population. The benefits far outweigh the risks when looked at as a whole and individual risks are rare. This video describes how herd immunity protects those that are immunized along with those in the population that are not eligible, such as babies too young for immunizations. When more and more parents opt out of immunizations for reasons other than allergies and strong religious convictions, they are relying on the benefits at are being provided by all of the parents that do immunize. That is a double standard. This opinion states “I want what I feel is best for my child by avoiding what I don’t feel is safe, but I also want the benefits from that same action when it is performed by other parents”. By not vaccinating these parents are reducing the herd immunity that has benefited our population for over a generation. Maybe that is part of the problem. These vaccinations are for diseases that parents never see anymore, and the generations that have experienced them are oftentimes no longer with us. I myself have vaccinated my children and believe that not only is it an act of the greater good, but it is in the best interest of my own children. It is my duty.

[@fasulia67]

Please do a video on the Ebola virus and how worried should be. We need clarity.

[@oftankoftan]

The sources aren't properly linked. I can't find the study in the link.

[@luigiman403]

You should make a video about how states have and can react to Obamacare. I hear things about states not expanding Medicaid and the like, but I don't know what their true effects are.

[@Nephi895]

Thank you

[@Autoctonal]

Great video!! thanks

[@zinmoe9325]

What is this video actually about? I need it for my presentation 😭

[@Goabnb94]

Some vaccines also have egg bases or something, and those allergic to eggs might have an allergic reaction if given the vaccine.

[@SarahsSeniorYear]

If you have an egg allergy you get either in a nasal spray or pill form.

[@triciamyles7258]

I don’t understand how allowing the second kid with measles going to school puts everyone at risk if everyone is vaccinated?

[@Bubbles-lp2cv]

I like the perspective on herd immunity in this video. I believe getting vaccinated is crucial to protect ourselves and others. As the video mentioned, vaccines aren't perfect; however, think of all of the people who have been vaccinated and have been completely fine. Herd immunity is about looking out for everyone, especially the vulnerable babies who are too young for vaccinations. We're doing ourselves and the community a favor by reducing the risk of having a serious outbreak.

[@DJLiquidSmooth]

You obviously don't know much. This is false info. The cdc changed the definition of vaccine. And herd immunity. So he is putting false info on the screen. Doesn't matter if it was a year ago. It is now not proper to show the old definition. It can create vaccine hesitancy. This guy must be silenced or he will cause many to die by promoting what is now dangerous info.

[@777Petunia]

2:51 -- Not one kid under the age of one died from varicella from 2004 - 2007. What about before that? After that? This video was made (or published) in 2014. That's only a 3 year span. The numbers and stats seem a little sliced and diced... The numbers would have more significance if they painted a comprehensive picture...

[@jessikagonzalez1033]

I came here to find a video to help give a visual to my family who don't understand how herd immunity works.

[@777Petunia]

Talk about how vaccines don't last forever (more likely 5 to 8 years depending on the vaccine and the individual). Assuming vaccine protection lasts forever is the base of the herd immunity argument. Even if you were fully vaccinated as a kid, at the very latest, by 25 years old it's guaranteed any protection you may have had (may have had) has worn off. I was fully vaccinated as a kid. My last MMR booster was when I was 5. I had my titers drawn when I was pregnant to check on my rubella status, since that's problematic during pregnancy. I did not have measles or mumps immunity, not one bit, but I had rubella immunity because.... I got wild rubella (meaning not from a syringe, got the disease from the "wild", the "world") when I was a kid. If you get a disease naturally (like rubella or the measles or the chicken pox), you're immune for life. If you get a vaccine for that disease, all it does is postpone the next time you're unprotected again. What are we supposed to do? Get a booster for every disease they're marketing for now every 5 years? I can't think of a more lucrative business plan for the drug pushers. It's genius. Take the population's ability to protect itself away, and then force them into a lifelong vaccine program that will only make us sicker and sicker. So, to summarize, unless you've had every vaccine booster in the last 5 or ten years, you're unvaccinated! How many people do you know have received boosters for all 18+ diseases they've put on the schedule now? The vast majority of the population is unvaccinated. This is why so-called herd immunity is a farce. It's a big lie, and they know it. They just hope we don't catch on. A person is smart, but people are dumber than sheep, and if we continue to follow the herd, we'll lose everything, our health and our sovereignty.

[@danielbaronne753]

indeed. That was something that always bothered me about the concept of herd immunity since I know most adult in my country are unvaccinated or their vaccination was worn off so how do we explain the fact that there is major disease outbreak?

[@karolienvd4341]

The fact that less people are infected with diseases is not only due to vaccines but also to the fact that we live in a very healthy and protected environment in the Western world with very few areas that give infections a chance to spread. So I wonder how many people would actually get infected with one of these diseases if there weren't any vaccines at all.

[@draconiarose]

Parents can choose not to vaccinate, but they then choose to provide their children with their own education as they should be required to vaccinate to enter the public school system. It protects public health and private rights.

[@FreezerYT]

dayuum that intro

[@lohphat]

Why are many videos starting to show up on YT with a yellow/green tinge on the video, vlogbrothers, crash course, etc. most others are fine, just a subset. It's this due to YT encoding or a camera type, or a non-standard gamma? It's not my monitor as I can switch between "proper" gamma and these off-color vids so it's not a local problem.

[@mattkelly4881]

they're all made by the same people so... its likely their fault

[@luizprado1077]

Is this about vaccines that have been carefully developed or about vaccines developed in a rush to make money and approved for emergency use?

[@jackies.3751]

Great video. The only part I disliked was the 30 second unskippable ad in the beginning for an R-Rated movie. Don't get me wrong, I understand that ads are necessary, but if they are going to be on such violent topics, it needs to have a skip button.

[@lexiej7487]

In regards to vaccines, herd immunity is one of the most important things. A disease cannot spread if there are many people that have a vaccine. From a utilitarian perspective, I feel like it is for the greater good of the greater amount of people if everyone that can gets vaccinated. The more people that are vaccinated, the better. It can also be tied back to the moral theory of beneficence. As a society, we have a general obligation towards each other. We, for the most part, want to prevent spreading harm (disease) to those around us. What better way to do this than by getting vaccinated? There is little harm or risk associated with vaccines. Sure, you might get a slight fever, but that’s usually it. Vaccine aren’t perfect by any means, but by getting vaccinated we can build up herd immunity. It is safer for everyone to do this, including small babies and the immunocompromised. You wouldn’t walk up to a cancer patient and sneeze all over them, would you? Then why would you want to expose them to a vaccine preventable illness?

[@krystalburcham6294]

This video does a wonderful job explaining why it is so important to vaccinate your children unless it is medically necessary that you do not. When too many people start assuming they do not need to vaccinate because "other people are vaccinated", this causes an extreme breakdown for herd immunity. We need herd immunity for those who cannot be vaccinated, such as young babies, the elderly, and the immune-compromised. When you choose not to vaccinate yourself or your child for reasons that are not medically related, you put yourself, your child, and someone else at risk for disease. I am a mother of 3 and all of my children have always been up to date on all vaccines. Although it is nice to have herd immunity, especially when my children were too young for said vaccines, we do not rely solely on herd immunity. Herd immunity is so important in keeping public health stable. I think that it is unfair and selfish for parents to not vaccinate their children when there is no medical evidence that it will compromise that child. Herd immunity only works when we vaccinate!

[@MontyQueues]

opens ur mind about outbreaks

[@jenniferwinchell1631]

I also believe that vaccines are not perfect, but they are necessary and should be incorporated as much as possible. Vaccinating more of the population will prevent outbreaks of certain diseases. However, a vaccination cannot be undone, but someone can always get vaccinated later once they are more informed about the possible risks or consequences they might face if they are vaccinated. It is also important that they know what is being put into their body or their child's body before they are forced to get the vaccine.

[@mayattv4986]

Make an updated comment here about the Corona Virus Pandemic!

[@lizicadumitru9683]

Do vaccines help to lower the viral load within a vaccinated body?

[@GuardsmanBass]

Thanks for the video. I'd also add that it's important to keep your vaccinations updated - some of them wear off after a period of time, after which you need to get the shots again.

[@emilyc9240]

Yes! Remember that you or your child could still contract the disease and pass it on

[@ColoringKaria]

unless there is a medical reason for a child to be unvaccinated, i see no reason to allow children who are unvaccinated for NON MEDICAL reasons to attend public schools with children who DO have VALID MEDICAL reasons for not getting vaccinated and putting them in danger outbreak or not.

[@ZeldagigafanMatthew]

+ColoringKaria Same, and I wish the religious and personal exemptions where either done away with, or the hoops they have to jump through both tighter and greater in number.

[@AvNotasian]

True, people with religious convictions against vaccination are making a personal choice, there is enough evidence to prove vaccines are effective and therefore you cannot argue vaccines are being used to persecute a religious minority.

[@jessd956]

At least 40% of the population has a valid medical medical reason, it's called MTHFR single nucleotide polymorphism.

[@AvNotasian]

Jess D Thats a genetic disease, there is no way a vaccine could cause that. Nor dos 40% of the population have that disease. Nor is it related to immunology. Where do you people get this nonsense?

[@jessd956]

I didn't say that a vaccine could CAUSE it. I am saying that people with the condition shouldn't get vaccines because of their much reduced ability to clear toxins out of the body etc.. Also, interestingly, about 95% of people with Autism also have MTHFR SNPs. NotAsian

[@TheHumanFlag]

Dr. Carroll, I have a question for you. If someone were naturally immune to a disease, e.g. the flu, would it help prevent others from getting the flu even if this person has never had the flu and never will?

[@TheJonseyboi]

Well since that person is immune they wouldn't be able to be a vector for the disease so they couldn't infect people however since it is only one person it would not reduce infection rates. Unless they had contact with someone who never interacted with the outside world other than seeing that person, then that person would be spared infection but other than that, no.

[@davidmayo6723]

Um... yes. Because it would be one less person walking around with the flu. If they're born immune they cannot be infected and can't become a vector for someone who is not immune. That's the whole point of herd immunity. Maximizing the number of people incapable of spreading the disease. Adding this person to the population would increase the benefit of herd immunity. Adding this person to the population UNimmunized would decrease the benefit of herd immunity, because it would be one more person capable of contracting the disease and spreading it. It's just math.

[@SpartonKlieo]

Can you go "to the research" on the recent announcement about how taking an aspirin a day for a decade can lower risks of some cancers? The first mention on NBC shared no numbers whatsoever. And when I tried researching it myself, I never found percentages that agreed with other sources.

[@kekemdm]

Your right; Herd Immunity only works when almost everyone is vaccinated. So as long as "public health" continue to promote vaccinations to the 85ers (85% of the population) and it continues to be successful than my children should be fine without being vaccinated. The measles of the unvaccinated child was unfortunate I don't think their parents were to blame. We all are trying to do the best thing for our children. Great video though.

[@ColoringKaria]

+Marketta Jannah wow. of course the parents are too blame. they are just as much to blame as if they put a baby in a car without their car seat and the baby was injured in an accident.

[@kekemdm]

+ColoringKaria I don't agree with that analogy. There is other ways to protect a child from viruses. There is only one way to protect a child In a vehicle. Natural birth and breastfeeding is natural ways to protect a child. Something that "public health" pick some years to promote and some years not to.

[@tliszt]

typo with the word significantly

[@madphatdopeyo742]

I love it when people say "correlation is not causation" lol. Yes it does when it happens thousands of times.

[@Xtina4444]

okay but what do you guys think about a vaccine that is NEW and may have potential side effects that could surface in a few years? That is the only thing stopping me.

[@qwertyuiopaaaaaaa7]

How does the school/government find out the kid is sick with that specific illness? They can't go into the pediatrician's files can they? What's really stopping a sick child from being sent to school, or withheld and their sibling being sent to school if the school never finds out?

[@n_adoui]

qwertyuiopaaaaaaa7 the school doesn't know if a kid is sick or not, they only forbid kids who are not vaccinated from attending school in the case of an outbreak.

[@MrAbood900]

When a child applies for say a kindergarten the school needs to get the childs vaccination certificates and maybe medical records (but I'm not quite sure about the records)

[@lizziebreath9]

If I remember right doctors have to report certain diseases to the health department. The school would probably find out about the affected child from them and then siblings usually have some kind of link between their files. Around here though if they have a child who comes down with a highly contagious vaccine preventable disease with a long asymptomatic period(like 99% of them do) they keep everybody who can't show an up to date vaccination record has to stay home whether student or teacher. Mainly because these diseases rarely only hit one person.

[@healthcaretriage]

Some diseases are reportable, meaning that doctors have to tell the health department.

[@elliemccarthy5672]

When a parent calls the school to tell them their kid is sick, they have to say what they have and wheat the symptoms are.

[@juliankirby9880]

As a person with a life controlling needle phobia, I thank all of you that can beat your adrenal response and get a shot/blood drawn. you are all heroes. keep up the good work.

[@geoffreypranke1097]

Nice fuel band!

[@justinnorwood5477]

This is a good topic to debate, vaccines and herd immunity. I personally do not think that vaccines should be required for children since there are medical exemptions and religious reasons. If a parent doesn't want to vaccinate their child, that’s the chance they're willing to take. Parents that get their kids vaccinated should not have to worry about the unvaccinated kids, because they're vaccinated! Yes, vaccinations do decrease the chance of spreading disease, which is great. But parental autonomy should be a big factor when choosing what to do to their child. The video did explain that herd immunity is beneficial, meaning that if a large number of kids get vaccinated then it theoretically helps the unvaccinated. That is an interesting concept to grasp.

[@meganschmidt3235]

I respect your opinion on the choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate. I don't however believe you can compare the choice of wanting to not vaccinate your child based on religious or medical reasons to just not choosing to do it. When a child does not get vaccinated because of a religious region it is set up in the constitution to protect this right. The state can not integer with church. A medical exemption is proven facts the giving the vaccine would cause more harm than good by a medical professional who is trained in making these decisions. Any other refusal for vaccinations is a parents choice based on their own biases, values, and opinions. I don't think you acknowledged this in your statement above. Herd immunity is a huge factor playing into why children should be vaccinated as it protects those who are not old enough to receive the vaccine or have a legitimate reason such as medical exemption to not get it. I understand your point of the parents right to autonomy but what about doing no harm. A doctor may feel he/she is doing harm to the patient but not vaccinating the child. They're are many angles to come at vaccinating children from and I agree the video above shows just one of those angles. I believe however to protect the herd immunity children need to be vaccinated.

[@failedfishermanBC]

Parents with vaccinated children *do* have to worry about unvaccinated children though. The virus can mutate, and vaccinations aren't 100% effective at protecting your child.

[@thomaskn1012]

EXCELLENT video Dr. Carroll! I hope Jenny McCarthy is watching.

[@ArashiAiko]

This needs to be updated a bit

[@Bushleaguer]

Honest question and i don't have any kids but interested in the topic: Recent whooping cough outbreak here in my area, when listing the cases they also report who in the group was/wasn't up to date on their vaccinations 85-90% of those affected with the pertussis were completely up to date and vaccinated! What's the advantage of getting vaccinated if you're just as (more?) likely to get sick even if you are fully vaccinated? How is this explained? I imagine that the 10-15% unvaccinated and infected portion isn't a higher porportion than the total unvaccinated population of the area.

[@tigrissapphire915]

Hmm! That's really interesting. I apologize, I don't have an answer to your question though. The only thing l can think of is maybe it was due to age? Could the majority of those infected be very young or older individuals? Or maybe they were immunized but they got in contact with a special strain of the bacteria that their body wasn't prepared for? Maybe it be worth it to find more detailed stats with age groups involved.

[@jlchambe77]

That is a really good question, news media like to report on numbers like that but don't dive deep into the reasons why. Here are a couple reasons why this happens: 1. If most people are vaccinated then there will be more people in the vaccinated group affected. This makes more sense with an example. Let's say there are 200 kids in a school and 5% (10 kids) are not vaccinated (so 95% or 190 kids are vaccinated). Pertussis breaks out and all the unvaccinated kids get it and 1 out of 4 of the vaccinated kids get it. This would be 10 vaccinated kids infected and ~48 vaccinated kids infected. That is 58 total kids infected so 48/58x100=~82% of the infected kids were vaccinated. This makes great headlines and then people think the vaccine did not work. When in fact if none of the kids were vaccinated everyone would have had it. 2. Now that we are getting better data, it looks like our bodies production of antibodies to pertussis starts to wear off after a while. Typically kids get the immunization at age 1, age 4, then at 11 or 12. With some of these recent outbreaks in junior high kids, it looks like resistance starts to fall in some kids around age 9 or 10 (just before they receive the booster), so that age group is more susceptible. Because if this data, We are now recommending a booster for adults also. Adults usually don't get as sick as kids do from it, but adults can be a vector for spreading it. Dr Jeff md

[@billybush111]

Pertussis is a tough one as there are multiple strains of the disease and current vaccines may not confer immunity to as many strains for as long as previously thought. It may be that the DTaP vaccine, which vaccinates against Diptheria, Tetanus and Pertussis is not as effective against all strains of Pertussis because it uses an acellular vaccine rather than the whole-cell vaccine found in DTwP. It may be that an adjustment in the recommended vaccine schedule is required. Time will tell. That said, you are still better off getting the DTaP than not getting it.

[@Timodeus]

How long does the chicken pox vaccine last for? 10 years maybe? Does everyone get 10 year boosters on their chicken pox vaccine? I heard it was more like 50% max.....so how can you claim herd immunity?

[@paigebrownlie4187]

While I agree that there is an insane amount of helpfulness that vaccines provide, they may just be one of the, if not the, best things invented in recent history. That being said, I still believe that people should be given a choice about whether or not they wish to vaccinate their kids. While some parents will refuse to vaccinate their kids because of the myth that vaccines cause autism, some parents do not vaccinate their kids because it does go against their personal and/or religious views. And with that, it brings up the question of schools. If a parent refuses to vaccinate their children for personal and/or religious views, that’s their choice. But that should not stop them from getting the same education as everyone else in the world (or at least in the United States). Private schools are notoriously picky about who they accept in. Not everyone has the money to attend private schools, and public schools should not (and are not allowed to) discriminate against students for any reason. Even if their parents made the decision to not vaccinate their kids, their kids should still be allowed into the public school no matter what. Even if it is during the time of an outbreak, if the school is public, it should still allow the student to enter the school. Either this or provide an alternate way for the student to still get the information that is being taught in the classroom at that time. Again, I am not saying that people should not be vaccinate. I was vaccinated as a kid, the only one I didn’t get right away was the HPV shot (but I am getting that now). However, there does get a point where children who were not vaccinate should not be discriminated against in public schooling. It is not the children’s faults, it is their parents’ faults. Do not deprive these children of an education because their parents chose not to vaccinate them. The children would not have had a say in whether or not they received the vaccine. These children still deserve an education, and public school is usually the first choice for those too poor to enroll in private schools.

[@brettreynolds356]

I believe this is a great video and timely just. Herd immunity has seen a slight decrease in the recent years due to parents deciding not to vaccinate there children. I believe parents who do not vaccinate there children are selfish. They are not only putting their children at risk, but they are putting you and me at risk. Not only are the people that are vaccinated at risk but think about the children who are to young to be vaccinated or the older population that is not vaccinated they are put at even a higher chance of contracting a disease if your child is infected and spreads it to them. I just feel as if the parents that decide not to vaccinate don't think about what they are really doing or they just don't care about others. I 100% back the governments reasoning on backing schools to not admit children who are not vaccinated or are sick with a disease that could possibly cause a outbreak. I believe you should have to be vaccinated to attend a public school no matter ones personal belief.

[@tigrissapphire915]

4 people support the use of measles blankets.

[@777Petunia]

If you've ever been in an oncology ward (hopefully you haven't), the first thing you'd notice is the big sign out front saying "Don't come in if you're sick or have been recently vaccinated", because everyone knows full well that certain vaccines shed for up to a year out of the nose, mouth and waste products. The smallpox and polio disappearance is also very misunderstood, and people unfortunately have the knee jerk reaction of celebrating vaccines as the reason they're by and large gone. Look closely and you'll notice certain truths that will make you scratch your head, and think twice. Here we go: Prior to 1954 (when the Salk vaccine was introduced) the criterion to diagnose polio was "partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart" (Dr. Bernard Greenberg). That's it. Laboratory confirmation and presence of residual paralysis was not taken into account. In 1955, paralytic cases continued to climb, and in fact kept climbing steadily into the early 60s. In order to align medical data with the desired appearance of success from the vaccine, the criterion of diagnosing polio changed. Two examinations 60 DAYS apart were required in order for a case to be recognized as polio, and of course reported polio cases plummeted, just because the criterion of diagnosing polio had changed. Prior to the introduction of the Salk vaccine, anything from lead poisoning to Guillain-Barré syndrome was reported as polio. (Incidentally, FDR didn't have polio. He had Guillain-Barré syndrome.) Paralytic polio was already on the decline, without the vaccine. All the vaccine did was keep it around longer than it would have been (look up the Cutter incident), and the same goes for Smallpox. Ask yourself, what about the diseases that have largely disappeared without a vaccine to credit? Scarlet Fever? The Bubonic Plague? Cholera? Why would we be so quick to credit the decline of polio and smallpox cases to a vaccine? Because it was there. This blind faith in a vaccine paved the way for the horror of the next 60 years and counting, and for the attack on everything healthy and good in our immune systems. Diseases (like measles and pertussis) are not on the rise because of the unvaccinated. I argue they are on the rise because of the VACCINATED. Like I said before, vaccines do not last forever (most last about 8 to 10 years if that depending on the individual and the vaccination), and therefore can not and will not ever contribute to herd immunity. If your last, say, measles booster was when you were 5 years old, and you're over 15 or 20 years old, you have no protection anymore, you are technically unvaccinated. Think of all the people walking around without protection. The CDC claims herd immunity requires 95% of a population to receive vaccinations to achieve it. 95% of people need to have active immunity to a disease. Never. That will never happen with vaccines. The only way to achieve true herd immunity is to catch the wild disease naturally. When that happens, you have immunity for life, not 8 to 10 years. It's all a complete lie, and a disgraceful farce. Also, the overuse of vaccines, like antibiotics, are causing these diseases to actually morph into new and "improved" versions of themselves. A pertussis strain was discovered to have mutated and now emits three times the amount of toxins (making it three times as harmful), than the pertussis the vaccine is designed to protect against. Nature will 100% of the time outsmart us. We have to understand something very basic. The pathogen does not determine how, when or if we get sick. Our bodies do. We need healthy immune systems to fight off the pathogens that could make us sick. Vaccines shatter our immune systems. They are inflammatory nonsense, and are systematically making us as a species weaker.

[@streptopelias8444]

this.is.dumb. vaccines work because they inject a small part of the virus into your blood stream and then your body remembers the pathogen so if you get, lets say the flu, your body can better fight of the virus so you dont DIE. I didnt read your comment but i roughly scanned it. educate yourself

[@earlgrey2130]

Vaccines should be mandatory. I understand that freedom of choice is very important and valuable. But there are limits to freedom of choice. If i like eating candy i should be free to do so. But if i like eating other people i should not. So think about it: Getting vaccinated: Strengthens your immune system, helps the entire community stay healthy Not getting vaccinated: More risk to yourself, more risk to the entire community Choice like these that are so obvious should not be open to debate (apart from people with allergic reactions or valid medical reasons of course). But personal opinion, lack of education or religion simply shouldn't give an individual the right to "choose" to endanger others.

[@melodrama1401]

Loud and wrong. Vaccines are not a one size fit solution. And your analogies were bad, it doesn’t support your claim.

[@aaryajain6396]

@@melodrama1401 can you explain what you mean by vaccines are not one size fit all? I'm curious

[@davidaames6917]

The outcome to mandate the vaccine would be a disaster. You will have some who will refuse. What are we to do with those anti-vaxxers? Should we place them in camps? Persecute them? Line them up in a firing squad? This is NOT far fetched!

[@highac3s]

Fun fact: last time I was vaccinated, I couldn't walk for a few days.

[@carbondioxide8989]

Imagine if you were unvaccinated.

[@xwolpertinger]

Before the usual crazy squad arrives I would just like to add that one of the problems I don't often see addressed is that there are often a lot of people working in the medical field who refuse to get vaccinated against anything they are not required by law. I think there is still much to be done in educating those who should actually know better : /

[@butterflymustfly_1232]

I don't believe this for a minute.

[@brittnyking7718]

I believe that it is the parents choice on whether or not their child is vaccinated, aka parental autonomy. I also believe that by not vaccinating your child, you are putting your own child at risk, along with other non-vaccinated children. I wouldn't think that vaccinated children would be at much of a risk, would they? But the biggest issue with not vaccinating children that have the ability to be vaccinated gives an unfair amount of risk to children that cant be vaccinated due to medical reasons. It would seem that herd immunity is great enough to allow those that refuse to vaccinate to do so, since putting their children at risk is their choice, right?

[@YosefRosenfield]

Has it ever occurred to you that.....CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION??

[@Rubberninja1987]

i really like this channel but i think that there should be an equivalent channel that talks about engineering related topics

[@ljmastertroll]

If you explained the strategy without the corresponding data I wouldn't buy into vaccinations. The numbers don't lie.

[@libbybihary7631]

Public and private schools should not be allowing students to attend school unless they are fully vaccinated. This goes for religious and any other reasons. The only way that a child should be allowed to not be vaccinated is if they have a very important medical reason and vaccinations would put them in danger. This is when herd immunity becomes so important. Healthcare Triage does a great idea of explaining this idea of 'herd immunity'. Before I began to do research on the vaccine movement I had never heard or understood this. If more parents who didn't vaccinate got informed on how not giving their healthy child a vaccine, they may change there mind. Every parent has the right to protect their own child but it doesn't give them the right to put someone else's child in danger. Herd immunity needs to be something that is explained to parents before they decide to put their children in school.

[@elliemccarthy5672]

Dogs and cats are required to get rabies shots, kennel cough shots, among others, so shouldn't people be too? I love animals and have 2 dogs myself but shouldn't we put these laws in for people, since humans are of a bit more concern to the government than animals?

[@patrickturgeon76]

Why does he keep jumping seats?

[@pateunuchity884]

Thanks for making this. Very informative. 👍🏽 People should not fear vaccinations. Diseases should fear vaccinations!!

[@atelat6]

Maybe the government should make it compulsory for a child to be vaccinated before they can attend a public school.. Also, you should make a video about health related aspects vegetarian or vegan diets, or even paleo. Are there any actual benefits, and do they outweigh the negatives?

[@voluntaryanarchy7736]

Could someone help to clarify this for me? This video seems to back the following with logic and reasoning: People with compromised immune systems and those who cannot get immunized such as people of a certain age (too old or too young to be vaccinated) or possibly pregnant women or those with compromised immune systems are at risk when someone does not get vaccinated. And in this way, when outbreaks occur, individuals who are not vaccinated/immunized are put at risk. Then, at the the 4:15 mark, he says that people who refuse to vaccinate themselves aren't just putting themselves/children at increased risk, but also everyone else (which would include people who are vaccinated). However, all of the logic he presented up until this point in the video doesn't support that claim. Rather, all of the logic up to this point supports only the claim that people who aren't vaccinated are putting others who aren't vaccinated at risk. So, where is the evidence that people who ARE vaccinated, are being put at risk by those who are not? I am left to guess as to why that might be, because he didn't provide any supporting reason/evidence to back that claim. What I would guess is: 1) Because vaccines are not perfect, even those who are vaccinated might still catch the disease they were vaccinated against. Other than the herd immunity argument, are there other reasons for why vaccines sometimes don't work? My next guess might be one such reason, but I'm interested to learn more... 2) Because diseases can mutate into something that a vaccination isn't equipped to prevent, therefor when disease is able to spread to those who are not immunized, that makes for an environment where the disease is more likely to mutate. Thank you in advance for your time and input.

[@henrymccasland-strachan4340]

Hi safs class I’m Henry

[@9k8mjmw4]

All children who are able to be vaccinated without definite side effects or future problems should be. The choice of a parent not to vaccinate a healthy child could end up making a child sick who was unable to receive a vaccination. Parents need to realize that in the big picture it is about protecting all children. If I was a parent I couldn't imagine the feeling knowing that my child got sick and spread it to others who were unable to be vaccinated due to medical reasons because of my decision. Not only would my child be sick, it would also harm other children who's parents really didn't have a choice in the first place.

[@TJVliet]

man if see all these stray dogs walkin through my town, no vaccinations.... NONe HOW DO THEY DO IT?

[@joeldenring]

It's sad that we don't allow people to have pets who don't have their vaccinations. But we'll let people have children and not vaccinate them. What sense does that make America?

[@BibleNutter]

Arun Nair It's called freedom but I don't think that would make a whole lot of sense to a communist.

[@koisj8310]

Adam B *remove the right to deny vaccines*

[@madman3891]

Wonderful vid, ty :)

[@healthcaretriage]

yw!

[@jeffereycornish9842]

Can you make a video on why every newborn baby needs protection from Hepatitis B?

[@pamnz4181]

What about natural herd immunity from normal exposure? Interesting how the WHO has changed the definition of herd immunity very recently. Fact.

[@johnpeters1719]

Hundreds of thousands people used to die because of measles and polio, and now we don't since over 90% of thr population is vaccinated

[@jellevm]

The fact that herd immunity protects the non-vaccinated does not contribute to concluding that, vice-versa, non-vaccinated people pose a significant risk to those who are vaccinated in numbers great enough to provide herd immunity. In fact, risk groups such as the elderly and babies are generally not considered a threat to those who are vaccinated, so why would people not vaccinated for other reasons suddenly be considered such a great risk? Unless the amount of non-vaccinated people is so great that herd immunity does in fact break down, how big is the risk really when a sick person comes into contact with people who are vaccinated against the disease that person carries? Aside from the argument that 'vaccinations aren't perfect' no actual numbers are given on how big the risk really is, and I have a very hard time finding any data on this. More people possibly carrying a disease due to not being vaccinated against it (despite heard immunity), and thereby increasing exposure of vaccinated people to that disease by some amount, would seem to increase the risk of someone who is vaccinated catching that disease in the case where their immunity-by-vaccination fails, but by how much? Are these numbers even at all significant? How effective are vaccines in preventing a disease when someone is actually directly exposed to that disease? How prone to failure are vaccines and how likely is a marginal increase in exposure to preventable diseases to incur illness in a vaccinated population with herd immunity? What percentage of people would have to be vaccinated for herd immunity to exist, and at the same time for non-vaccinated people to impose a significant risk for the vaccinated population (if that is not already a contradiction)?

[@tasmikigal7611]

"The Beast and its sheeple will never attain 'Herd' Immunity nor will they attain 'Herd' Mentality as long as there are still Humans who are able to peer clearly through the wool being pulled over their eyes!"

[@TheYopogo]

I completely agree that we need to get everyone vaccinated that it is possible to do but I do not agree with the people who say this should be done by state coercion. No one, no matter if they are acting on behalf of the state or not, should ever be forced to have anything injected into their bodies or undergo any medical procedure. I mean. What're they gunna do? Round people up and medicate them at gunpoint? No. We need to convince people. General scientific literacy is on the up. We will get there without fascism.

[@Pat121V]

Interesting side question. Should not vaccinating your children be open to prosecution as child abuse/neglect?

[@made-line7627]

That is an interesting question, and the answer should most definitely be "No".

[@jamesutley1352]

Maybe if it were explained this way on all the msm and social media sites instead of making it so political people might be more willing to vaccinate? Naw probably not

[@nathanprindler]

There's something I'm not understanding here... Why are vaccinated kids in danger from unvaccinated kids? What's the point of a vaccination if you're still vulnerable to the disease? And if vaccinated people can get sick, what's to say they wouldn't spread it to other vaccinated people as well as unvaccinated people?

[@garrettkajmowicz]

No medical treatment is 100% effective. The same is true for vaccines. Picking some hypothetical numbers, let's assume that if you were unvaccinated, routine exposure would put you at 60% for contracting a disease. Let's assume that immunization reduced this to 5%. For an individual person, the likelihood of contracting the disease is quite small, roughly the same as guessing the right number on a roulette wheel spin. However, for a class with 25 immunized kids, you'd expect, on average, roughly 1 more student to catch the disease. It's much better than before where it might have been 15. However, the risk to being exposed to somebody with the illness still isn't zero. So for those dangerous diseases there is still a desire to keep a contagious person out of the school.

[@moonlitfractal]

When talking herd immunity, the biggest risks are to people who are not medically *able* to be vaccinated. Young babies aren't able to be vaccinated until they have reached certain ages. Individuals with AIDS or other diseases of the immune system can get sick if they attempt to get vaccinated. The same goes for people with autoimmune diseases like lupus or MS who are on medications that suppress the immune system. Organ transplant patients also have to take immunosuppressant drugs. These people's immune systems are already compromised, making it more likely that they'll get sick, be sicker, and stay sick longer if exposed to the diseases vaccines are supposed to prevent. Plenty of them are children, or live with children who could bring germs home from school. I have a friend who needed a heart transplant. He put this way: "If you campaign against vaccinations you are personally advocating for my death."

[@OlafoWaffle]

Think of the flu virus it's rather good at mutating from year to year. If not enough people are vaccinated the virus can change enough to hurt those who are. Its the reason small pox is not seen in the wild, because we were able to vaccinate nearly everyone so it has been seen outside of a lab.

[@lizziebreath9]

People titer or respond to vaccines at different rates, so for some people they get through the course and get about a 99% where as another may only respond 40% because of a quirk of their immune system. Think of it like those people we all basically knew as kids who kept getting chicken pox over and over again. By keeping up heard immunity those people who may not have responded as well to the vaccines are still protected. We don't do anti-body testing on everybody because it would be impractical except for in some cases pregnant women for rubella anti-bodies. But basically by vaccinating everybody we protect those who don't respond as well to the course of vaccines too. By not vaccinating everyone who can be we risk the health of those people who while vaccinated didn't titer as well.

[@DarkLordofHistory]

The point of mass vaccination and immunization is to reduce not only the chance of individuals getting sick, but to also prevent outbreaks or epidemics from either occurring or spreading into the wider populace. Its better to have a one in twenty chance of contracting something than a one in five chance.