Value of imitating another photographers?

[@AmorLucisPhotography]

There are importantly different dimensions of "imitation" which you tend to fuse together in these discussions. For example: technique, composition, and style. All of these can be “imitated” (“copied”, “emulated” - you use various terms), but they are different. In the interests of brevity (yes, I type that with an almost straight face), I’m going to skip the differences for now. The main thing I think you under-appreciate, Cole, is the fact that having techniques already available in our tool kit, which (unless we originate that technique) we will have acquired by imitation or copying, increases the imaginative and creative space available for developing our vision. In a nutshell, if we have a technique in our toolkit, it primes our imagination for the creative possibilities that that technique enables, thereby furthering the development of our vision. If we lack the techniques it hampers the development of our vision. It is like having a larger vocabulary. The larger our vocabulary, the easier it is to express ourselves with nuance and precision, but also the easier it is to know *what* it is we want to express in the first place. How do we acquire that vocabulary - by imitation or copying how others use words, of course. Expecting people to first find their vision and only *then* acquire the necessary techniques to express it is rather like telling a child to first decide what they really want to say and only once they have figured that out to then introduce them to a dictionary and a thesaurus containing the words that they need to say it. Good luck with that, Cole. We cannot even use a thesaurus or dictionary until or unless we have learned at least a basic vocabulary. So finding our vision and learning various techniques to enable the expression of that vision are not as functionally independent of each other as you seem to suppose. Yes, techniques are there to serve our vision, not the other way around, and a mastery of techniques never amounts to a vision (any more than having a large vocabulary means you have anything to say), but the scope of our vision is expanded by our acquisition and command of various techniques. And we acquire and gain proficiency over them by copying or imitating - which is essentially just what it is to learn from others. It is neither “tools first, then find our vision” nor “vision first, then acquire the tools”. Both views are mistakes that rest on a misunderstanding of human learning and cognition. Our vision and the tools to express them develop and emerge in conjunction with each other, symbiotically, just like reading and writing. And there simply is no shortcut to finding our vision that does not go through imitation and copying in some way, shape, or form. Maybe it would be nice if there were, but there isn’t. That’s why every artist in history, including yourself, Cole, has gone through that stage. The important thing is to emerge the other side.

[@PixelsHeartandArt]

I appreciate the essence of this message: be yourself, everyone else is already taken (Oscar Wilde). And, one of the most valuable exercises I did a few years ago was to study flower images by Robert Mapplethorpe and really look at what was going on with the lighting, composition, tonalities, etc. Then, I created two images that were "in the style of" based on what I learned. It was one of my first attempts at a true still life with artificial light and "staging" it. I photograph with natural light 99.9% of the time, so it stretched my comfort zone and showed me I could work with lighting. I took that knowledge and did NOT make more "in the style of," but applied it to other subjects, such as smoke. In general, I'm now more aware of both natural and artificial light sources and, I hope, use them more wisely. So while I completely agree that we shouldn't try to emulate other photographers/artists as a *substitute* for our own voice, I do believe there's value in learning from others' work with the intention of using it as a catalyst for personal creative exploration, as well as expanding our technical skills.

[@photonsonpixels]

Cole, I am sure that you are right in what you are saying, but for some reason the fact is that most of us learn anything by first learning the mechanics of it; ie technically. And often this involve learning from others even if we are not necessarily imitating their work. It would be interesting to hear what formal/academic art educators have to say about all this. I studied sciences so I don’t know how art is formally taught. And going back to your first comment about the photo club, do you think there is such a thing as a photograph “in the style of Cole Thompson”? Other than the fact that you only produce B&W images, I don’t know that I would be able to say “that image looks like Cole’s, unless of course it is an imitation of one of your famous subjects. And I mean that as a compliment. Thanks.

[@jasoneldridgephotography]

I think it is often a stop on the path to finding your own vision. It’s important that you don’t setup camp and stay.

[@thecoleandjohnshow7236]

I agree it can be that and like your camping thought... I hate camping!

[@jasoneldridgephotography]

@ hahaha. I love it but the older I get…

[@WolfgangWhyte]

Agree 100%. Musicians often start out imitating their favorite musician, but the ones who makes something of themselves don't stay stuck in the imitation zone. They learn the basics of a master, then move on in their own direction.

[@DREES56_TRR-qw2vr]

I agree with the broad theme of not trying to emulate other photographers styles to develop your own, but I do believe there is nothing harmful in appreciating another photographer's vision and creativity, to get some insight into what can move you as a viewer, and influence the way you look at subjects )paraphrasing John's topic from the other day). I love much of Fan Ho's work, and how he used light and shade, but I would never try to copy it because that was how he saw the world, at that time, it is not the world I live in not the way I see it. Oh, and having instagram "likes" being the arbiter of which images are better..................nope, definitely don't like that idea 😂

[@saxmangeoff]

While I agree that copying shouldn’t be the ultimate goal, I think it’s a necessary step along the way. I think part of the problem is that photography is more accessible than other arts. 100 years ago, Kodak advertized, “You press the button. We do the rest.” Easy peasy. However, if you’re learning to draw, you’re going to be copying for a long time. You’re going to draw a shaded sphere. You’re going to draw buildings and streets with perspective lines. Eventually, you might graduate to other cliche subjects, and try copying things you like. Along the way, you’ll be drawn (pun intended) to certain ways of doing things, and certain subjects you like to draw. In music, you’re going to spend a lot of time playing “Hot Cross Buns”, learning scales, etc. All the things everyone else before you has done. Both ZZ Top and Led Zeppelin started out as blues bands, probably trying really hard to copy Howlin’ Wolf and Robert Johnson. They took very different paths from there, and that’s where the magic happens. Not at the start, but during the journey. What I hear Cole saying is the equivalent of “hand a kid a guitar and see what he comes up with. It’s a way to avoid the long road.” I don’t think there’s a way to avoid the long road. In fact, I think “just go do it without any guidance” might be a longer road, not a shorter one. Is the rule of thirds a “rule” that must be followed blindly? Of course not. Does it simplify for beginners a lot of ideas about composition, balance, visual weight, etc.? Yes, I think it does. It’s like musical scales. You’ll always USE those scales, but if you just play scales, you aren't playing music. Oh, and inviting Cole to "copy Cole's style" night is delightfully clueless. On that we can all agree!

[@colethompson1906]

Have you never watched the Music Man? Of course you just give kids the instrument and tell them to "THINK!" the music. It will be wonderful, just ask their parents.

[@saxmangeoff]

@ Ahh, yes! How could I forget the Think Method? I’m sure it as effective in photography as it is in music!

[@PixelsHeartandArt]

Would I get a citation for never using a tripod?

[@thecoleandjohnshow7236]

Oh my goodness.... YES!!!!

[@PixelsHeartandArt]

@@thecoleandjohnshow7236 Then lock me in photographer jail and throw away the key!

[@colethompson1906]

John tried to give me a ticket because I had one tripod leg facing towards my body, the way I like it!

[@WolfgangWhyte]

Tickets for violations - now there’s an idea! But who’s going to be the hardass cop👮, and who’s going to put on the ruby red lipstick💄and fishnets to try to get out of the ticket? As for imitating another photographer, I agree with Jason Eldridge here in the comments. It’s actually hard to think of a single art where beginners don’t imitate the artist(s) who first inspired them. But you can’t just plateau and stay there. Otherwise all writers would sound exactly like Shakespeare 📜; all sculptors would be Michaelangelo 🧰, all painters Caravaggio 🖌; all composers would be Bach etc etc.

And if all composers were JS Bach, we would not now, in the 21st century, have Cardi B 😵‍💫, and the makers of vomit bags everywhere would be bankrupt!🤮

[@colethompson1906]

Ruby red lipstick...and fishnets...is that how you get out of tickets Wolfgang?

[@WolfgangWhyte]

​@@colethompson1906 They usually make me play the cop on account of the moustache and all. Of course, I've never played in Italy... 😝

[@andycakebread7663]

Writing tickets 😂 class 🫡 - will there be a ticket for 'evidence of emulation...' Good thoughts again guys, thanks 👍