Valve's Vader/Deckard VR Headsets... with Apple?

Valve and Apple separately represent some of the most opposite ideals publicly. But what about closed doors? Is there a collaboration that happened/is happening between the two companies for VR/AR devices?
I actually think so. This video explains all the connections between the companies after rereading a report from Digitimes: www.digitimes.com/news/a20191...
Disclaimer: I am a shareholder of eMagin (EMAN) from NYSE
#Apple #Valve #VR
0:00 Intro & Explanation
2:42 Valve Vader HMD
8:39 Post-Vader Prototypes
11:20 eMagin and Apple
14:02 Apple and Valve start talking
17:26 Apple/Valve interests become CLOSE!
19:49 Apple Insider Information Recap
25:55 ImagineOptix/Apple
28:33 Arcturus Industries/Mac OS
29:30 Apple Possible Benefits
32:24 Valve Possible Benefits
33:38 Conclusion & Farewell

[@RobertA-hq3vz]

I really respect this channel because Bradley does his research and separates fact from fiction. He knows his stuff and focuses on the technical aspects of VR/AR. In most other channels all I hear about are fantasies about the upcoming Multiverse, how NFT's will be the future, and how Facebook(Meta) is taking over VR and we should all rebel. Its good to see that, here at least, logic and sound reasoning is still applied.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Seeing the long term/bigger picture of the XR industry through emerging technologies makes me not feel so worried about the short term domination from a company like Meta. I know for most people who don't watch this stuff: everything seems bleak. But I see the opposite. A Virtual World full of opportunity and new platforms that can all exist

[@RobertA-hq3vz]

@@SadlyItsBradley I'm a 60 year old electronics engineer. I was around before people had computers and I saw new tech appear and evolve many times. I've also seen things like Y2K panic and other irrationality grip society. Lately I've been seeing people lose their minds over hyped up PR from VR companies and believing all sorts of nonsense. Whenever I try to point out that facebook will not "own" VR it elicits an unpleasant response. Your video demonstrates that there are plenty of companies, big companies in fact, very interested in VR/AR and they have no intentions of letting Facebook have things all their way. Thank you for that. For the record I don't find Facebook that threatening in regards to VR. I suspect Zuckerberg is tired of his evil reputation and is actually trying to do something nice for the world for a change.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

@@RobertA-hq3vz this is a super cool comment. I really appreciate the time and effort detailing your thoughts and experiences. Thanks again

[@sargeant45]

@@RobertA-hq3vz I just think Meta will be used mainly for workplace surveillance on those who work from home. They can make a lot of money selling this to businesses.

[@RobertA-hq3vz]

@@sargeant45 you know, the other day I was researching a scale platform using google. After that a ton of web sites I went to featured that very same scale in adverts off to the side. Are you sure Meta is the only ones surveilling us because I strongly suspect that everything we do is being monitored, on Meta or off it. Welcome to the internet.

[@bnuyuniverse]

The tin foil headset man himself

[@handlemonium]

Sadly eating some quailcomm for breakfast.

[@nicholaspatton7195]

Hey for real though, I've never been much of a tech guy, so I never thought I would happily sit through a 35 minute techy video. I'm in my mid 20's, and have always been interested but unsure where to even begin.... Well, Bradley's videos have been that starting point for me. Never a need to apologize for length brother, I can only imagine how much time and effort go into obtaining and sorting through so much information! Can't wait for future updates on the future of Valve and VR. Thanks for all your effort!

[@delusifer1017]

I feel the same way man

[@user_16309]

All these KZbinrs must feel like they are writing a term paper each video. Hard to believe they can make enough money for it to be worth it.

[@beanos2287]

I very much respect the honesty when revealing that you have shares in one of these companies.

[@timmturner]

@Dev Guysince the stock is being diluted I don't think he has anything to worry about, except losing money.

[@beanos2287]

@Dev Guy that's true.

[@GT1GT]

I watched this entire video but sure is nice to go back and watch some parts and thx to the time stamps this will happen. Great Job Brad. Keep up the great fun research dig.

[@exobodyfoundation4472]

Excellent Coverage of these behind the scenes interactions. Really exciting work.

[@christoph6055]

This is extremely interesting. Thank you for all of this research you did ^^ Really looking forward to what's coming in the VR/AR industry, as I want to work in that field myself (software-side)

[@Dindonmasker]

Do you think valve will have a good VR OS to do stuff closer to pc things in the headset too? Steam VR isn't the best software in terms of usability for VR so a steam VR 2.0 that is much better would be really nice!

[@SadlyItsBradley]

I am starting to think this is the plan, yes.

[@delusifer1017]

well they’ve talked about the new big picture mode after the deck launches, which should overhaul the steamvr shop at least. The optimist in me is hoping they will change more than just the big picture part of it.

[@yep-dev]

It's been a pleasure to watch this video. The amount of research you did is incredibly impressive. Really sets you above the rest of the VR-related content creators who seem just like entertainers in the comparison, this old-time style investigative journalism is great to see, no matter what is the topic.

[@bassemb]

I watched all of this and it was so exciting. Your deep dive videos are awesome.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

I am very glad you enjoy them Bassem!

[@jeanbutinfrench]

i remember that news coming a little after the index was released, and it totally made sense to me, apple's design philosophy is to solve problems users havent considered and reinvent devices that already exist, they often succeed as much as they fail, the valve index was not a reivention of vr, but was a most polished version possible of it, there maybe lies the difference betweeb the 2 companies, but it makes sense for apple to seek a partnership on what worked so well, what apple will release, be that the apple ar glasses or the vr headset, is exciting because it might be the next big step, to do for vr what it did for the smartphone (that would be the dream, although not likely), it might not be accessible pricewise or as widely popular, but it pushes the tecnology for competitors

[@ImmersedRobot]

Great video, with plenty of supporting research and thoughts. It was a bit of an information overload that could have been split over three videos to make it more digestible, although I hate it when people suggest things like that - "Just pause the video for a bit!"

[@jimmybaker4821]

The madman has done it. Absolute banger of a video.

[@chrisc3825]

Watched the whole thing. Awesome. Thank you. Super interesting stuff man.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Awesome, thank you!

[@TheRealTobias]

Well presented, super interesting, I'm excited to discover what the future holds. Thanks for your insights!

[@Cai_VR]

damn the nostalgia of being so early the video is still in 360p lmao

[@kencult]

Literally yesterday I was wondering when the next Brad video would come out. I missed the shirts

[@HULKReality.3064]

thank you dude for the awesome vid. if this turn's out right (totally). it would be good for VR and AR. Thanks again have a good weekend.

[@StoneGear]

Let's goooo! Ty Bradley for the infos!

[@FrostKittyPaw]

Great job! I think this is the best and most clear video so far. It makes me really excited to see this tech come out. It’s probably a good time to start saving up for one of these HMDs - they wont be cheap xD If the high end HMDs can be a full desktop replacement, the 2k or 3k price becomes justifiable. Macbooks already cost around that much, so I can see Apple customers buying up this HMD.

[@DylanGladstoneMusic]

Bradley's the Sherlock Holmes of VR. Great video!

[@Got2bBrewN]

So great!! I’m excited and hope you’re right!

[@robertnester13]

Great video Bradley! Thanks

[@bedney45]

Very nicely done!

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@nicknorthcutt7680]

Looking back on this video now that the vision pro has been released is really cool!

[@TheDeadShape]

Thanks for great video, I really like your content. Have you heard any news/rumors about the new ps vr headset ?

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Not much

[@liquidgoat_]

this is a prime example of a passionate vr gamer

[@Tezla_Insanity]

Many people tend to forget about LGs VR headset, glad you brought it up.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

I remember that year hoping to hear more info about it. Then nothing ever again

[@Tezla_Insanity]

@@SadlyItsBradley it's really a shame :

[@0x0michael]

Valve + Apple : I'm so conflicted

[@squinglestudios]

Nice work Brad.

[@andrewfox4467]

Man I could listen to you talk about this stuff all night. I've been an Apple iOS dev since the iPad 1 came out, so incredibly interested hearing about the Apple manoeuvrings going on in the background. Thank you for sharing your insights. Stay awesome.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@moncimoov]

i love ur new Deckard HAIR

[@sirdinkus6537]

-I haven't finished this video yet- , but I cannot imagine Valve partnering with Apple would be good for the hope of an open Linux stand-alone headset. Apple is basically the definition of both "walled garden" and "anti-consumer". This might actually be the first prediction of yours I hope is wrong.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

I should note that Deckard is still happening at Valve with the plans I said before. This goes into detail about a reported partnership with Apple for hardware (possibly to get Steam store on this new platform)

[@Perenbarn]

I agree. Apple is not good news.

[@ZarathustraDK]

On one hand I totally see where you're coming from, and I agree, Apple is cancer to open source. On the other hand it could be a strategic move by Valve: Bring Apple into the game with their crowd, premium headsets, and premium prices as a counterweight to the "cheapo"-quest-crowd in order to boost high-end VR relevancy. Apple might be satan when it comes to open source, but we're allies when it comes to VR and gaming, and who better to duke it out with billion-dollar company bent on world domination than another billion-dollar company bent on world domination.

[@sirdinkus6537]

@@SadlyItsBradley After the Epic lawsuit I'm highly sceptical of Apple allowing Steam VR onto their headset. But if this is just a mutually beneficial partnership to secure components, then that I can believe.

[@CharlieWeller]

@@SadlyItsBradley If I understood you correctly, it seems you are mainly excited for this partnership because Apple has the ability to influence manufacturers to produce the necessary HMD components en mass and at much cheaper prices. This would not only benefit the VR industry as a whole, but it would allow Valve to manufacture the Deckard at a much lower price. Did I get that right?

[@CarlCabralEntertainment]

Thanks Brad!

[@MaraldBes]

A lot of research and information to process.. good work! Apple could maybe also use the micro OLED technology used in the Sony alpha lineup like the A1. I think when changing the optics but keeping the 9.44 M-Dot screen would make an excellent VR headset. And Apple already uses sony image sensors for their iPhone and iPad cameras. I just hope we get to use Steam VR on the m1 Max soon, as I think apple will be an excellent platform for serious & creative VR applications (music, film, animation etc) and focus less on games but having the support of valve will make it easy to make them available on Windows / Linux Steam VR as well.

[@augustkamp]

most sensible comment i’ve seen in ages

[@jsmith3728]

Love the rabbit hole

[@mikeb3172]

AMD is/was also working with Valve on SteamAudio. The dev kit contains Phonon (cross platform audio by KDE) and AMD's TrueAudio Next which was used in HLA for advanced audio effects: HRTF and ray traced audio reflection/occlusion. Nvidia is also selling accelerated VR sound effects but AMD hasn't mentioned it for a few years (yet their GPU's still appear to support it).

[@Woogoo336]

Wasn't there some info that a new type of steam machine might end up coming out at some point? Imagine if a hybrid Valve headset could come with a charge dock and compute unit kit for wired/wireless play, and that system could play normal games on a tv or monitor as well. Almost like a PSVR type deal. Though prices would have to be really tight for that to be appealing to consumers, the compute unit probably couldn't be much more than 600 dollars or similar console prices. Not to mention the whole steam machine idea kinda already flopped.

[@1PercentPure]

Grade A reporting man

[@itsAustinGreen]

He’s done it again

[@ErrorRaffyline0]

4:35 It's been around for a few deckards too 😉

[@onikaze8445]

I'm here for the flcl shirt.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

based

[@JeppeBeier]

I’m a simple guy. I smell Brad. I click like.

[@faded_taco1816]

This video was really nice. Well done!. It could have had way more views if you added other things to look at. You could really do with a video editor.

[@Dindonmasker]

Let's gooooo!!!

[@b.s.7693]

14:35 Dude, this employee is pretty much a real life Gordon Freeman

[@calebkimm325]

The man himself. Wonder who knows more tec MKBHD or Bradley? Lol. Great fodder Bradley. Boy you r amazingly brilliant. Quite knowledgeable of your tech....U R. ✌️

[@xTRTLZx]

should I get an index now or wait? But wait how long...?

[@vigamortezadventures7972]

Hopefully it’s an updated M1 or m2 perhaps 🤔 .. steam Vr games sound great .. if they get them working on Apple silicon .. I would love to start working on games made for apple because I see the potential..

[@williamgeorge5049]

Great video as always!!

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@matthewreeves6827]

Bradley, you're a super sleuth! Great job

[@rzmonk76]

My ADD is disturbed by this presentation!

[@scientia8442]

If I remember correctly, you previously said Meta would be the tier 1 partner of eMagin while you listed "coincidences" for that. Do you have a revised hypothesis, how does it fit the whole picture, do you think they work with another company?

[@SadlyItsBradley]

eMagin has said they have 3 tier one companies they are currently working with. 1 Licensed their tech to do what they want (Apple). One worked with them to make the 4K x 4K display (Valve). And after last year being shown the 4K display publicly, a third tier 1 kicked off a design with them that would be delivered mid this year for a PoC HMD. This third company is likely Meta and lines up with the 2760 x 3000 per eye uOLED HMD prototype found in the Quest kernel

[@Danny2k34]

It's so annoying deciding if I should just buy the Index or not because knowing my luck, I'll buy it and Valve will announce the release date for Deckard...Although, usually when big companies announce something, they leave a lot of room before the actual release to build up hype so even if they announce it, it'll probably still be months before it comes out. I'm so torn! Give me advice Bradleeeeyyy sensei on what I should do!

[@savedbybravado4382]

I want these two to work together so bad

[@MichaelPickles]

Think of the target audience hardware... They would need pretty beefy system to run the Apple VR with 4K per eye. I think the option with a micro display from the likes of the mirrorless camera in the centre of a lower resolution display Maybe the use of prisms...

[@motthubris5122]

For the algorithms and of course for Mr Bradley himself.

[@ItsMeLuke69]

Bradley* "This is not investment advice" Me* Invests because I trust Bradley is smart

[@TotalGAMIX]

😂😂😂😂

[@franshartman4378]

That partnership could benefit Velve, if they can use Apple’s AR/VR-patents and marketing power.

[@jerrycaddie838]

no way out the gate apple will allow to use a competitor, steam, as the users main base hub

[@speedbuiz]

Funny enough: I was with some of my besties in VRChat one night, and I ran into a CEO of a Valve Accessory company who practically confirmed the Deckard was 100% real. I talked abt waiting a bit rather than buying an index for the Deckard's potential benefits, with wireless connectivity, 2k/4k, rotating FOV displays, and more....this guy giggled like he knew everything abt the headset and gestured me abt his company...and told me he couldn't "confirm" anything, but that I won't need to wait very long.... I aint spreading names bc it'd rat him out, and I got nothing on Apple's involvement in the mix...but hoooly f Brad/eChad I think you're atleast spot on with the Deckard.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Tundra Labs? 🤔

[@TotalGAMIX]

dammm something big is coming

[@ericwheelhouse4371]

I missed this video! Do you think apple headset might work with steam? That would be amazing and a lot less for Apple to juggle with a new platform.

[@charlesalexanderable]

I think it is a silent s in fresnel because it is french or something

[@Amni3D]

If they end up actually collaborating on a standalone storefront, it would remove a lot of the value of a Index 2 standalone.. If the collaboration is real, it's probably a more hardware focused one like the Reverb G2. At least, way I see it.

[@mattcy6591]

I can definitely see cross licensing hardware patents but to be partnering I'm skeptical. But I'm open to being wrong

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Ya, the best I can do is give accurate information and timelines of the connections I found. Which I think I did pretty well this time around. But to determine the point of a lot of these "plans" is pretty much impossible. (I still do my best)

[@thatautogarage3644]

When conspiracy theories meet a well researched person, Great job as always Bradly.

[@ecevansevans2566]

Hi Bad, where you been , Decker, Decker or is it Vader. What is it , which one is valve index next generation.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Deckard is the next gen Index. But it incorporates a lot of the dreams Valve had when they were making Vader (which got cancelled around 2017)

[@christoph6055]

Where do you see the VR/AR industry in like 5 years? That'd really interest me ^^

[@TotalGAMIX]

it's going to be massive. like the beginning of the smartphone

[@christoph6055]

@@TotalGAMIX Yeah, not quite sure about 5 years, but 10 years I'd definitely agree on that. I'm currently heavily invested in AMD and I'll probably stay there for 1-2 more years, but I'm thinking about switching over to some VR companies as well.

[@JAYZ999]

Hey brad, did you see Boz’s latest instagram Q&A? He pretty much said eye tracked divested rendering is still just not there on speed etc. could this mean that these are just early patents and info?

[@SadlyItsBradley]

I think it won’t be “there” until oculus releases a product on it if you catch my drift

[@BOLL7708]

I'm not sure if I'm excited of a collaboration or scared Apple might, as hinted on, mostly just use Valve as a research house and then pilfer their partners and employees if successful. 😐

[@mnomadvfx]

At the end of the day Valve cares about software sales through Steam more than hardware. Hardware is just the means to achieving the goal, and more recently software too with DXVK, VKD3D, Zink and Proton sponsorship. That being said if Apple do copy stuff without permission then Valve will fuck them for all they are worth.

[@ChrisLucht]

Fooly Cooly t shirts dope

[@racism_CEO]

damn that's interesting

[@TotalGAMIX]

my mind is blown

[@gogreengameon2146]

Dude. New PS5 VR Japanese patent detailing wired and wireless hand tracking and a new controller released. You probably already know this right?

[@papus9163]

Why did you put the monitor in timeout

[@SadlyItsBradley]

It bad >:(

[@thesral96]

Could this mean that Deckard is not really Index 2 but the headset they made in partnership with Apple?

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Nah, I think Deckard is still something being worked on at Valve. Especially due to the Linux Arm strings and references to a Qualcomm chip in Steam os 3

[@kaputkittie]

Brad is my Q!

[@thecircusfreak5364]

So was this upended with Meta purchasing imagineOptix? Maybe meta was trying to quell and impede Apple and Valve?

[@ChaBoiNeil]

Apple can put an exuberant price on anything and sell it. They sold the Mac Pro Stand for $999. Just a cheap piece of machined aluminum (which is still for sale btw). So they have a solid audience willing to buy anything and everything Apple related, but I don't particularly like how it may increase the price of such a product in collaboration with Valve. And given the fact that Apple is very VERY un-opensource so to say with all Apple products being only within the Apple ecosystem which is limited in its consumer ability. Although it may be the only way to confront Facebook and their "sell-products-for-no-profit-to-make-consumer-market-dependent-on-us-in-the-long-run" business structure. Interesting stuff...

[@Krolitian1]

They sold the stand for that price because it's only for people that can easily afford it, aka businesses that want to look extravagant by having it. Most people buying the monitor don't even want a stand cause the monitor it's replacing is already on a VESA mount that the new monitor will go on. While stuff like that is priced that high because the people buying it WANT it to be a luxurious item, most of their stuff is generally well priced compared to the competition. Their iPhones are the same price or cheaper than other Android flagships that come nowhere close in terms of performance and battery life. Their MacBooks, compared to laptops of the same price, are several times more powerful, last several times longer on battery, better screen, better audio, better durability and keyboard stiffness, magsafe, etc. I totally agree that they used to be an overpriced junk company, but for the last couple years they've made stuff no one can match at a price no one's matched. I wouldn't be surprised if their VR headset is $1000 to compete with everyone else, all while having the processing power to run Alyx at desktop quality in the headset.

[@ondrejsvoren1933]

i know it is a stupid question, but atleast a wild guess - do you think we will get "deckard" sooner than in 1/2y from now? Thanks in advance...

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Timelines are easy to make for the past and present. Future is too hard. I don’t wanna guess due to the fluidity of supply lines right now. Sorry :(

[@kenknutson1713]

He has mentioned in other videos that he speculates there will be an announcement within 6 months, that was early Oct. So if it sticks, by March we'll hear something.

[@ondrejsvoren1933]

@@kenknutson1713 that's roughly the timeframe i had in mind, TYVM. so IF we get announcement ~mar, selling will start in ~may, reliably in june. So in next 1/2Y. Welp, my plan for next few months is clear - if i will not be able to get my hands on working Oculus Rift CV1 cable, then i will be "forced" to get quest2 until deckard comes out... can't live without VR :(

[@ondrejsvoren1933]

well, i meant i there is even slightest chance of being available in less than 1/2 or more likely a year. Supply issues is whole "new" problem :( You know, to help me decite a way out of my current situation of "no VR" because malfunction :( Yay for oculus & their support...

[@svenakersten3883]

Vapple Deckard, the next HMD?

[@blikpils7899]

I dont mind youtube hiding the dislikes. because i know this vid has 0, Great content Sadlybradly !

[@StormyDoesVR]

Never forget, iOS was one of the first platforms to do heavy gaming on the go! Anyone remember Infinity Blade??? :D

[@SadlyItsBradley]

I remember. That was a very neat game, for sure

[@danielbennett4867]

yeah E magin should check with lawyers to see if it's actionable to use a Nintendo trademarked Image the Triforce in their logo.

[@jimm5546]

That’s what you took away from this? There’s probably about 500 companies that use a similar logo

[@Ziggurat1]

HappilyItsBradley

[@peanutpomsky520]

Woof woof

[@anran6425]

emagin shareholder nice XD

[@GingerWritings]

I'm not too surprised that Valve would work with Apple. They both hate don't like where Windows is going, and besides Blizzard and 2k, we're one of the few companies willing to make games playable on the Mac.

[@sendmechecks]

FWIW, in "fresnel" the S is silent... Named after it's inventor, French physicist Augustin-Jean Fresnel.

[@faceless3239]

The one thing I’m afraid of here is the lack of support for connecting this new apple headset to windows based pcs. Hoping that this isn’t true seeing as valve is involved.

[@parkerault2607]

It's an all in one, so you won't be connecting it to a mac or a PC. I'd be shocked if there wasn't a native virtual desktop feature for connecting to iphones and mac os computers, since seamless interoperability is the one thing that Apple does better than anyone else. Even if Apple doesn't release a PC client itself, I'd also be shocked if a third party app like Virtual Desktop on the Quest wasn't available at release or soon after.

[@faceless3239]

@@parkerault2607 i know its all in one, but a pc would still provide more processing power for things that are more graphic intensive. im crossing my fingers for support for windows devices for people like me who want the most performance out of the headset.

[@Carnyzzle]

It's a shame that the Vive is pretty much the best headset from HTC and it's because Valve helped them make it

[@socks2441]

hmmm.. valve and apple working together? sounds expensive. really expensive. but valve has open gardens and apple walls off their gardens. seems strange them working together. i suppose i should watch the video before commenting, but im about to go out, i will watch when i get back.

[@CyberSamurai4Life]

As apple ramps up to its own iHeadset your channel could explode if you focus on this and become the go to source for all things iHeadset and related tech rumours

[@SadlyItsBradley]

It's definitely an interesting topic to me more than Meta HMD rumors because Apple clearly goes for the high end hardware. So it's likely to expect more like this in the future.

[@CyberSamurai4Life]

@@SadlyItsBradley Go for it. I just know if you give it your 100% you'll double your subs within 12 months. maybe more

[@christophermcmanus5103]

I'm not quite sure the confusion. Vader was a concept headset, similar to a concept car where Valve build the greatest headset they can with the current tech ignoring budget then form features of this into consumer headsets. This is what Deckard is. It isn't what the consumer is going to see.

[@ItsMeLuke69]

Hi Brad I'm Luke. I missed you

[@3d1stp3rs0n]

Thanks for the video, but VR is seriously taking too long!

[@joel3399]

It looks amazing but I won't be able to afford it

[@kiwirocket64]

Ok ok ok so I get that you guys want higher rez headsets but have you thought of the fact that it’s already hard enough playing vr games at 2k let alone 4K I have a ration rtx 6700 x t and I struggle to get a consistent frame rate on games like Minecraft and gmod I usually get 30 to 20 fps on those games I guess vr chat is better but still I don’t think I could ever run a headset with 4K screens that would destroy my graphics card

[@TotalGAMIX]

foveated rendering

[@JurassicJordan]

Why would valve partner with apple but still not give us mac users Proton for Mac?

[@jaydenhawkesjayden]

I thought TSMC's largest customer was apple / just over 50% of all there production is dedicated to apple, but its just a partnership, I don't think apple own tsmc in any way.

[@SadlyItsBradley]

Ya apple doesn’t own TSMC