Genshin Impact Is Being Abandoned

In light of recent events regarding the drama with Hoyo and Genshin Impact, I wanted to make a video talking about what I believe is causing Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail appear to be competing against each other, and how it can be stopped.
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#GenshinImpact #HonkaiStarRail #mihoyo

[@Phantom-YT19]

Honkai: Give’s free limited 5 star Genshin: here’s 3 intertwined fate

[@zero-pantsu-samus3203]

@@user-vo8ci3yb5c HSR will get 20 pulls in 2.0 my dude

[@FrenchDinosaur]

its funnier that it applies yo both Honkai games, meaning that Genshin lost twice over lmao.

[@Phantom-YT19]

⁠@@FrenchDinosauryes even though i play only star rail

[@Phantom-YT19]

@@user-vo8ci3yb5cgive who lol 😂

[@huejanus1333]

Aloy is a dogshit character thats not even part of the games world, who gives a fuck?@@user-vo8ci3yb5c

[@Ugotsomemilk]

Tbh the rewards are just a symptom. Genshin has nowadays some fundamental problems and Star Rail just made that more clear: The QoL changes, that many players wished were in Genshin were often in Star Rail in day one. It also mostly showed or at least made the playerbase of Star Rail feel, they are respected by the devs. The big one is imo the resin/trailblaze power update for Star Rail: After an update it was increased to 240 with an overflow if you miss that maxxes out at 2400. That is just a direct message from the devs, that they respect our time and that we dont have to play every day to not miss out on progression. Or the fact that Artifact/Relic grind is not timegated behind a day of the week and is just "select relic - select team - select amount - autoplay (~ 2min) - dispose of trash". Not even talking about a guaranteed mainstat with the self modeling resin you get from time to time Or the fact that they added an entire endgame mode to make units from Erudition (AOE) which were memed on before as the weakest path to be the strongest one for Pure fiction and people actually investing into their Himekos and Hertas These are QOL changes (except for autoplay) that are easy to implement in Genshin. But they havent done similar stuff for 3+ years and people are getting just tired of it. The 3 Fates is like saying: "You made us billions while we can literally throw shit at you and you would eat it"

[@IronDestinyBlaze]

I feel like a lot of people are missing the fact that HSR and Genshin run on the same engine and thus would almost certainly have some of the more experienced system developers (the ones who would implement qol stuff) from genshin would be brought over to help develop HSR as well due to already having experience with the engine from genshin and knowing potential pitfalls from designing the systems in genshin. Additionally they would like to get most of the work done before launch while making it easier to fix things after launch. After launch these more experienced developers would be free to reallocate to genshin again as HSR would have built up a more dedicated team who had gained experience themselves working under the senior devs as well as the game going into live service mode where they wouldn't be as needed. With the system devs now being able to work on genshin again they would be able to start implementing some more QoL there as well. And is that not exactly what we saw after HSR released.

[@nationalgeografic7687]

Are they wrong? Xianyun and nahida banner set a record for the most successful launch day

[@broccoli5176]

@@IronDestinyBlaze Yes, let's pretend that Honkai Impact 3rd runs on a different engine 🤡 It's so funny to watch your excuses, in the style of "they just learned from the Genshin experience". Yeah, sure.

[@broccoli5176]

@@nationalgeografic7687 Do you have any confirmation of this? It's just funny to watch when Genshin has poor sales, people complain that sources like Genshinlab are unreliable and its spread misinformation. Now people blindly trust the same source. lmao?

[@kwayke9]

Ngl, having seperate weapon banners and overflow resin would be great. A PF like mode would be cool as well, but they'd likely have to nerf Venti's Q, and ik damn well this won't fly

[@franconunez925]

Man, it's not a comptetition, that would mean both are trying to surpass eachother. Here Genshin is sleeping while Honkai has broken several bats in the back of Genshin's neck at this point.

[@JayTheBoss242]

The thing is genshin does not have to try and it will be number 1 or 2 in terms of revenue every month. So why would they not be asleep . It really is sad.

[@huejanus1333]

Allat rioting from the chinese just for them to spend the most money ever on the first day of xianyun. I used to hate hoyoverse and its treatment of players but not I kind of respect the hustle, why do anything when people lick the ground you walk on lol

[@brendanarthie7703]

​@@huejanus1333no clue why people spend money on genshin lol there is no content to use such characters.

[@JoJoZaka]

Honkai HAS to try. they're a turn based gacha with zero world exploration. there are literally hundreds of those out there. Genshin really only has Tower of Fantasy as competition . Why would they need to force player retention through free gifts?

[@superpasta1232]

I don't need rewards I NEED CONTENT SOMETHING TO DO OTHER THEN COMMISSIONS AND SPIRAL ABYSS

[@reezwave]

What bothered me the most is when the argument deviated from talking about the devs listening to feedback, to the genre of each game like "oohh genshin is better cus it's open world" or "hsr is better cus turn based is this and that". Stop! That's not what we're supposed to talk about. And then there's the creators drama that I'm tired to see. It's like when the parents gave their kids ice cream but the younger one gets more, instead of addressing the amount of ice cream that the siblings get, they rather argue with each other on who's the best sibling.

[@GolgothianSylex]

Games are not kids, they are financial projects and operates on simple terms, as you could have seen. HSR can't retain players and have banners with average success(and there are almost zero lore content compared to first year of GI on KZbin, so I think game falls short there too), and Genshin can generate absurd amount of money even with ongoing drama. If gacha game earns money - company won't snap a finger.

[@konodioda2777]

​@@GolgothianSylex their banners don't have average success when compared to genshin. On average an hsi banner makes more than an gi banner

[@trackpad1629]

@@GolgothianSylexthen why doesn't gi reward their players for giving them that much money and retention with giving basic qol updates and more generous rewards, endgame content, etc,?

[@jaroslavbima765]

@@konodioda2777 last 3 months HSR lost in revenue to GI, by a lot

[@jaroslavbima765]

@@trackpad1629 Because people calling for those features are vocal minority, and Genshin is pretty much at its peak in Fontaine, so that makes players even less likely to complain, endgame content is never coming, GI is not that type of game

[@mr.kenway4554]

You know what's the biggest punchline? You have to buy a PS5 in China to get a skin selector at all. CHINA, WHERE PEOPLE PLAY ON PHONES AND PC MORE THAN ALL HOME CONSOLES COMBINED.

[@reikomi]

I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to buy the ps5, get the code and instantly sell the ps5

[@mr.kenway4554]

@@reikomi even then it's locked to the Chinese servers, so us global jackasses aren't getting it no matter how we try to.

[@Runegrem]

That is why they run this promotion there. It's an incentive for people to buy more PS5s. Here in the west we already have a lot of console players, so the promotion is "unnecessary".

[@Balbaneth]

Grats for listening to a LEAK.

[@shaami8622]

​@@Runegremthat does make sense at a marketing pov. But by "marketing" its actually in favor of Sony, and not Genshin. So when they announce it in a main update stream for genshin, ppl would expect this is a genshin feature, and not a ps5 feature. Not to mention the various other existing ps5 exclusive features already in the game only further amplifies that expectation. The timing with hsr getting free dr ratio didnt help either.

[@birdiebancha910]

people saying hsr is the favorite child is so funny when hi3 is literally lowering pity threshold permanently but no one is talking about this in the discussion of how mihoyo treats their titles

[@kwayke9]

HI3's pity post 7.3 is 90, just like its younger brothers. Also, there's a lot of powercreep, Mihoyo has to be more generous or f2p cannot catch up. In Genshin, we're only starting to see powercreep now, between Lyney and soon Chiori (Neuvillette does not properly powercreep Ayato)

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@kwayke9 and even that lowering of pity wont help because of how "generous" the game is. i mean the units they give out, obv, which are.... mostly useless, and unless you whale - good luck getting enough currency, and of course the infamous system of their units being usable only if you have all gear for them

[@rhapsody85]

@@kwayke9 genshin guaranteed is 180 though, theres no 50/50 in hi3rd, thats an important distinction.

[@icon2719]

@@kwayke9powercreep, bruh you can just retain at Agony III and not care abt the latest meta updates, grow up. If u guys want to be the “top players” ofc u have to constantly pursue meta. It is ur choice, nobody forces u to do so

[@kenmei1604]

Are they useless though? HoS definitely isn't, SA still competent, etc. Only recent flop i can say is Sirin, and she's supported with own weathers pretty often

[@volpxs]

i think a lot of the competition/comparisons came from hsr systems not only being similar, but having the feedback and improvements we wanted in genshin. although some of these updates are coming to genshin now, the fact hsr got them first probably made a good part of the genshin playerbase ill-disposed to hsr

[@sageofsixpaths8392]

The fact that the xianyun/nahida banner is the most successful first day banner in cn genshin history is just insane 😂😂😂

[@karenwang313]

That right there is the reason Genshin won't get any better.

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@karenwang313 you talking like they dont bring qol - its just qol people whine about arent a priority, nor are that critical to the game's existence. hell, some of these are not even in hsr a priority.

[@Jinni-iras17514]

shows that everyone complaining here is the vocal minority. Some of the suggestions I'm seeing are so bad.

[@SlayerOfEnemies]

Said who? Genshin Labs Report? Ye, not like they totally didn't inflate the sales in past or don't have exact same revenues (down to every last digit)

[@grafi8430]

​@@SorarikoMotonename me every single QoL update we get and how long it took for them to implement it right now before I look at you like a clown

[@fedrikrose2277]

Currently playing both games, I think the main problem with Genshin other than the fact that rewards on occasions such as anniversary and lantern rite could be better, I think the main problem is communication. They tried to gaslit the players into thinking that the 3 fates we get via mail every year is something new. They only responds when there is big drama that affects them or when the players complaining are too many to ignore. I am fine with Star Rail getting more free pulls because otherwise it would be impossible to keep up with the amount of characters being released. I am fine with Quality of Life updates coming slower to Genshin because getting them later then never is better than not getting them at all. And I think the "No endgame content" complain will persist even if we actually get more combat-related end-game content. At the end of the day I just hope that they'll replace the people in charge of Genshin's marketing.

[@fr0ck360]

Genshin walked so Star Rail could run. I wish both of them could run together

[@Riyozsu]

David can give genshin the push it needs but for that Cai needs to leave first.

[@irena4929]

Genshin help SR run only for Genshin to get kicked on the leg by SR 😂

[@IdefinitelyExistIThink]

Nah bro, Cai just kicked genshin in the nuts and david gave star rail running shoes.

[@ji2893]

​@@Riyozsucai hasn't been involved with genshin for quite a while now

[@teddyisaliar271]

It is sad cause even tho im not keen on SR cause even tho it has endgame i just dc cause i find the game boring. I do respect what they did but to me what i cant stand about SR is the players and unfortunately its been the majority (and im sure others players have experienced the opposite which is also unacceptable) them bashing, mocking and trying to get a reaction genshin players and just making this whole war even worse. And i will admit i have been in the problem cause i try have a civil discussion mainly saying if i had my way I'll get the gameplay team from genshin and who ever is doing all these qol updates on SR and swap them over for a bit but people just start insulting then it just an all out war. I think both games merit different kinds of players but i just dont understand the idea of these games are made by same company but one gets treated better by the other (im not talking bout freebies cause to me they never make a game good or keep player attention for long) and why not instead just band together and say yo wtf is this unfair treatment not kick them whilst they down then pour a bag of salt over the cuts.

[@YongRuiTanFenway]

"It feels like they are being developed by 2 different companies" is ironically somewhat correct as both games have different dev teams and more importantly different producers, of which one game's producer seems more passionate and generous than the other

[@EnderBroadcast]

Generous? Sure. Passionate? Not in the slighest. To say that one dev team is more passionate than the other is a massive disrespect, especially when you're applying it to a game that far eclipses the one that supposedly has passionate devs

[@ajakakakak]

I definitely wouldn’t say more passionate. That feels like a bit of an insult to all the ppl making Genshins world, character, music, ect. That shit is still going hard, you can tell they bring a lot of passion to the team still

[@YongRuiTanFenway]

​ @EnderBroadcast @ajakakakak thats fair to say that passionate is definitely not the point of comparison here when it comes to the dev teams. I meant to word it such that I specifically point towards only the producers of the game having differing passion for where the game should go, cos it feels like genshin's producer is just okay with the game cruising along without much changes.

[@ginger2114]

I like that they are being compared personally. I think it helps to highlight issues with Genshin and creates some nice constructive criticism that Hoyo seriously needs to start listening to 🤷‍♂️

[@aldyzero6676]

Not Hoyo, just Cai Haoyu

[@danielhounshell2526]

It's useless criticism because it completely ignores how much more expensive it is to develop characters and content in Genshin.

[@Veranim]

I have two theories: 1. Hoyo is testing the market. They have Genshin with bad reward system and Star Rail with good reward system. They may be testing limits and what may give them the biggest revenue in their future games. 2. Those 2 games have different teams working on it and they dont communicate with another. I used to work in a big corporation and its common that different departaments work differently. In the end management only care about revenue.

[@jetkirby3981]

Testing? They already won and have a rabid fanbase with toxic positivity

[@dantevallieres794]

its the second, no single dev works on both teams

[@agastyarimbawa]

i mean they have different director

[@nilmerg]

my crackpot conspiracy theory: hoyo didn't expect genshin to be as successful as it was, the pandemic having been unforseen but advantageous to the game's success early on. it became the company's cash cow, but was never destined to be the favorite since it's obvious the owners are partial to what are essentially their HYV OCs. i mean, kiana has existed for over a decade & has made reappearances through every game until genshin(?). they've always enjoyed sci-fi settings. meanwhile, genshin is a sort of antithesis to all of hoyo's games, even tears of themis to a small extent. sure, players get glimpses into the abyss & allusions to genshin's world being within a bubble in the greater HYV, but at the end of the day, its playable setting is very organic & far from futuristic. whatever happens in genshin has little bearing on the greater universe outside of it. compare that to the scope of influence of different characters, factions, beings, etc. of the honkai games to the greater universe & their many potential timelines & dimensions. i'm not doubting there are team members invested in genshin's development, but like i said, it'll never be the HYV founders' favorite. hell, who knows if they'd rather have more players try or migrate/feed into their other games over genshin because those are the worlds & stories they have more pride in, hence directive for the other games to be more generous. if players are kept happy, they'll more likely stick with the games & invest (emotionally) in those beloved characters of theirs. that's me throwing shit at a wall though lmfao

[@stathisconstantinou]

From what I've heard the man in charge of genshin was previously in charge of HI3rd. When he was in charge, the situation in the game with the rewards was very similar to what we have now with genshin, but I dont think he's the only one at fault

[@hqhuy931]

as someone who plays both games, I truly feel like being stingy with rewards in genshin while bombarding star rail with them was a business decision, as Vars said, but would only reap profits in the short term. As they do this more often (make new games better, neglect old ones), players will not dedicate to the game and make them lose revenue, which would repeat the cycle. I truly hope it would not come down to that but perhaps mihoyo needs a shock to realize they can't just do anything they want to their players and still get money too

[@Axterix13]

I think it has more to do with who the games are actually competing with. HSR is competing in the turn based market, which has a lot more games, including long established ones, so it has to be more generous. It also pumps out characters faster, which tends to mean power creep, and that also means it both can be and has to be more generous with how it hands things out. Genshin, meanwhile, has no serious competition in its niche. It can afford to not be generous, because, what, you're going to play Tower of Fantasy?

[@therevolver5919]

​@@Axterix13i think so too, Vars pointed that out but I think the real reason for star rails rewards are due to its competition being the big shots like fate forcing them to be like the rest of the market giving tons of rewards to keep players from coming back while genshin has no competitors so they can do whatever they want

[@kenta6591]

U forgot that all the qol changes that were required for gi were implemented in hsr. A slap in the face of gi players

[@therookieshaker7795]

did you even watched the video?? He mentioned it

[@kenta6591]

​@@therookieshaker7795 he didn't said anything about it, just said that how their interfaces are same. Nothing about gi's qol added to hsr

[@therookieshaker7795]

Yes he did! You could argue that it was too brief and short but he did mention it

[@meinishikawa3730]

Time stamp it then

[@zeccy337]

I'm genuinely curious, what QoL changes are you talking about? GI has been getting QoL changes every single patch so I'm genuinely curious what you're referring to.

[@fuyuk1r1ft8]

Those are some great points, but i'd like to add that for us really early genshin players, hsr is a welcome break from the genshin fatigue. It's like the game is built to solve the fatigue, with a completely different combat style, easy and quick gearing up of characters and loads of rewards to try out new characters. It really helped with the genshin fatigue by offering a really good alternative, without replacing it.

[@KingTaltia]

"Quick gearing up of characters" Ulch, say that when you're Equilibrium 6, (Yes, I'm aware that you're probably higher than me, it's just the only way I can think to convey the feelings I have) god I hate this system. (Equilibrium/World Level to be clear)

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@KingTaltia also "quick" good luck getting relics and planar thingies you want because the system doesnt allow any leeway like an off-piece, and planars comimg with conditions you HAVE to fulfill to them to even work. and resin literally doesnt help with it at all. oh, and did i mention that for 40 energy, you have a chance to get just 1 relic? yum

[@sizaak]

@@SorarikoMotone40 guarantees 2 relics at the highest challenge level (and has a chance for 3)

[@Sandy-ws2wm]

​@@SorarikoMotoneyeah energy is 240 and despite that there is overflow . Like what

[@Sandy-ws2wm]

​@@KingTaltiaequilibrium is quite easy . I went into it without that much level and passed. Like is this that easy. I thought I would fight for fun but won lol. Then comes difficulty to adjust the level of players 😢

[@sl_enderman]

It's insane how no matter genshin betrays player's expectations, they are still going strong, even getting more successful, new maps that have full budgets and new characters that satisfy everyone, as long as the money players put into the game is put into game development, then there's no problems

[@Azaro_64]

Tbh I'd say that Genshin's only problem is its free yearly rewards, in terms of exploration, characters and storytelling they keep getting better. Rewards are pretty much a yearly controversy but the game experiece itself is still going strong with each new region

[@jetkirby3981]

All they have to do is design a character and give them one quest and they'll make billions so why do anything else

[@Axterix13]

@@Azaro_64 I don't think that's the case entirely, myself. I think Genshin is a game that gives people a lot of what they want, and nobody else matches it yet. Like the game play footage I've seen of WW just makes me say, "Nope" on visuals alone. But it lacks in a lot of ways. There is a lack of content. Sure, when a new map is released, there's exploration. But the fights are trivial, the rewards are pretty low, and it really isn't that rewarding. There are events, but you'll spend more time clicking through lines of dialogue than actually using your characters, and that's assuming the event even lets you use your character and isn't something that should just have been a web-game (hiya, Beetle battle). There's the Spiral Abyss, which is half an hour every couple of weeks. And then there are daily activities, which a typical week of artifact farming nets you nothing worthwhile for a long term player, and the daily resin + commissions are maybe 15-20m of gaming. The longer you've played the game, the less appealing it is in a lot of ways. And that's why that "yet" matters. If Genshin sees a serious competitor, one who scratches the same itch, but isn't as stingy and provides more meaningful stuff to do on any given day, Genshin will take a serious hit. All in all, Genshin's current state reminds me of Everquest. It is the top dog currently and others want a piece of its pie, but they just aren't good enough. And EQ saw new MMOs come out, and they'd pull away some of EQ's audience for a bit (just like HSR did with GI), but, in the end, the people returned. But if a WoW to Genshin's EQ ever hits, Genshin is going to take a serious hit. Because it hasn't put in the effort to further solidify its lead on possible competition. Because, like EQ, it ignores what its player base is telling it. Because people want to play the game it easily could be, rather than one limited to what it currently is. But for now, it can rest easy, because it has no serious threat.

[@kernelscout3077]

you'd think after the community having to say stuff like "well i'm disappointed but its better than nothing!" so many times they'd actually get sick of it.

[@lolidemon3163]

@@Azaro_64 imo i found fontaine story stuff mid compared to previous areas such as inazuma/sumeru so it depends on the story

[@Apterous]

I've always felt Genshin was very stingy with rewards, but I've also enjoyed it for what it is. Chenyu Vale is simply delightful. The gameplay mechanics are interesting and varied, and Abyss is a fun endgame challenge mode. But when I'm out of stuff to do, I'm out of stuff to do. It goes in cycles, and I can play Genshin for weeks just logging int, burning resin, and moving on. It's kind of nice to not have to live in the game, and then when something is really new, spend a lot ore time re-discovering what I had enjoyed to begin with. Or battling beetles with Itto. More rewards are nice and I would love to have more, but the game has already sucked me in. I'd rather have more challenging endgame content to flex my teams against, because I've been play since launch and have several well-built units. Honkai Star Rail is... very similar, but also different. I feel they need more content, generous rewards, and game modes because... it's actually fairly monotonous. I've been playing since launch, but now I have a few pretty decent teams that can clear most content on Auto-battle, and I find I enjoy the exploring a lot less, the main story is less tight, and I derive my enjoyment mostly from Simulated Universe and the additions (Swarm & Gold Gears). However, I'm feeling in HSR like I felt right before I stopped playing other gotcha games (Dragalia Lost and Fire Emblem Heroes, to name a few)... the grind isn't as fun or rewarding, and the rewards are basically all that's dragging me back. I maxed out SU and it's no longer a challenge anymore. They're introducing new characters and I have no idea who they are or why I should care. I have this feeling that when ZZZ drops, a lot of people will switch from HSR but Genshin will keep steady, or will get them all back when 5.0 drops.

[@rushalias8511]

Yeah...genshin is built on a lot of novelty in my experience. It's not a game meant to played with for combat alone like hsr. Nor is it meant to be rushed through all at once. It's a game meant for players to take there time and enjoy and have lots of Nov experiences in the world and to play to relax.

[@flannuu]

I totally agree with this! I think a lot of people play Genshin every single day and expect this game to always have something to do. I don't think any game is able to provide that without you getting bored of it eventually. I just started playing HSR so I can't say much about it. I would love to see Genshin have more endgame content, and it would be so easy to implement. They made tons of game modes already, but we get them for like 7-14 days. League of Legends has this same issue actually. They would add a really fun game mode for a few weeks and then never bring it back again, even though a lot of people would play it and come back to your game. I just don't get the logic behind this. But, also I am very behind in Genshin rn in terms of quests and exploration so these issues don't bother me as much. I slowed down a lot when the desert maps came out bc they are awful to explore, and I was also playing other games. I gotta say, when you take breaks from Genshin it's a lot more fun to play it. I think this Genshin drama would not be as big of a story right now if people didn't live in this game and didn't clear the new content in 2-3 days. But, Genshin does try to make you log in every day so that's also kinda the problem???

[@vectory674]

It's interesting because I felt the same towards Genshin Impact a long time ago. But I no longer feel like the rewards are worth the time I will waste launching it especially if I don't feel like I want to play. The grinding is always the most annoying part no matter the game I believe. So it's not surprising to see how you feel towards it The difference is what brought me to stay in HSR because I like strategy games more than the open world anyway. This difference is also what brought some people to say stupid things about the game and brought to light how much Genshin is letting his player base bleed. It's sad and unfortunate but we at least can notice now what we should seek to see improvement everywhere

[@vectory674]

@@flannuu you got it. The daily login is the problem here. HSR you basically can finish it in 5 minutes and log off if you don't want to play more. Genshin takes 15 minutes despite the thing they tried to implement because this feature is basically forcing you to play events or explore and not everyone has the time or the desire to do so. The "drama" is more about consistency and also the fact that you evolve with the players so doing the same thing every year won't be enough for some and I think this is fair to feel this way

[@tslex6477]

In my eyes it's preference of taste, i personally enjoyed hsr story more so far, and while it's obviously would get repetitive in terms of combat i thought of genshin being a lot more boring and exhausting for me

[@ldrago4568]

The bit about genshin draging down their other games is absolutely true, when starrail came out I completely avoided it because of my experience with genshin.

[@show9161]

Correction: it's the fans that are destroying each other but it's fun to watch when fanbase from both side gets involves in a fight it's gets even more interesting when those from HI gets involved 😂

[@MorbidEel]

It's not the fans, just lazy "content" creators.

[@supernieva2419]

Most gi fans are casual and have a life outside of the game so they dont even care about the drama. Its mostly content creators that dont know how to make content.

[@charlie-vw7zw]

as someone who plays both, seeing the free 10 pull (not check-in, literally a free 10 pull off the rip) logging onto hsr 2.0 after the massive 4.4 controversy honestly felt like a slap in the face

[@Stro2101]

The main problem is the Cai Haoyu who is the game producer of Genshin. In the past he was the game producer of Honkai Impact, but during his time as the producer Honkai Impact didn't have good rewards, the story was a little meh and it didn't have end content. The main attraction was during their time, it was the mobile game with better graphics than any other mobile game. After 1 year he stopped being the Honkai Impact producer to be the producer of Honkai 4 which then that game's name was changed to Genshin Impact. Then the new producer is David Jiang, which completed change Honkai Impact by giving much better rewards, events, main story and end game content. While still being the producer of Honkai Impact 3rd, David Jiang became the Honkai Star Rails game producer and he gave the same treatment as Honkai Impact. So the main problem are the philosophies of each producer. While David Jiang wants that his player are happy, Cai Haoyu doesn't care about that and only do the minimum and if the game is still winning to much money, then everything is good for him, so he just ignore the complains.

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@VermyScrubs this suspicion is a lie! I researched the guy - cai only was in hi3 and genshin when they didnt release yet, he is a tech guy. Hi3 was in control of david ever since the release, genshin was not under direct control of cai, he was working for his own project, that failed, so he left chairman position and went to NA to work on another project.

[@SorarikoMotone]

Please stop spreading misinfo - CAI WAS NEVER IN DIRECT CONTROL OF EITHER GAMES, HE'S A TECH GUY, HE LEFT BOTH GAMES AFTER THEY WERE RELEASED, DAVID WAS IN CONTROL OF HI3 EVER SINCE ITS RELEASE, PLEASE DO A PROPER DANG RESEARCH

[@VermyScrubs]

​@@SorarikoMotone you think someone would do that? Go on the internet and tell lies? Nah nah fr though, OP is a scum lord if this is true.

[@yoda5358]

The venn diagram for the playerbase of those games is a literal circle tho lmao

[@danielferrieri7434]

Genshin Impact: The Older Brother that's getting less love as time flies Honkai Star Rail: The Younger Brother that's getting spoiled and love more

[@hiarus8850]

Genshin's the middle child that never get's any attention and then the parents are surprised when they get in problem in a attempt to get said attention Star Rail is the talented younger brother that the entire family loves and as a result get's all the attention HI3rd is the older brother that got out of the house and became successful

[@huejanus1333]

genshin never got things right from the start

[@idontspeakjapanese6289]

Honkai Impact 3rd: The Oldest Brother who is also the pride and joy Tears of Themis: The forgotten child

[@leshou907]

@@hiarus8850 talented after stealing every UI design and system of Genshin

[@hiarus8850]

@@leshou907 isn't that what every younger brother does to the middle one anyway lol

[@Streamstresss]

the painful part about the reward comparison is that star rail gets a whole ass new 5 star that is just releasing as he's being given out, so presumably top of the line, all for a mobile game award. genshin had won those awards and much more important ones for two years in a row, and nominated for even higher level ones, it was being compared to the final fantasy franchise for god sake, and yet all we've gotten in all three years has been 25 fates worth of primos? maybe??? it's genuinely insulting that they only give respect to the honkai games, the rest like genshin and Tears of Themis are at best forgotten, at worse given so little respect that it is a wonder why they bother updating it at all, outside of funding the honkai games of course. maybe it's my bias towards genshin speaking, but as a player of both, genuinely my issue isn't with star rail getting good treatment and me wanting it to be brought down to genshin's level, but i want genshin to be given the love and respect it deserves, on par with the honkai series

[@kinojaca1870]

The report goes on to state that Star Rail is not as "revenue efficient" as Genshin Impact. At month five, Star Rail's iOS US RPD is -40% lower than that of Genshin Impact's ($3.32 vs $5.48). IMHO its not that genshin is being abandoned. From a business perspective Hoyoverse's actions makes sense. Honkai needs to give more freebies to invite more playes and to make them stay. Genshin sadly has a community that made Xianyun-Nahida banner #1 in sales despite the controversy and the poor treatment they did to the community.

[@MyLivingLegacy]

Very good points made throughout the video, good job Vars

[@zeccy337]

I think people have to realize that at its core genshin is a singleplayer game thats gated by its overworld content. Once players complete all the quests and exploration, theres nothing else to do except spiral abyss. Thats why having 5 stars to collect and materials to grind is so important to make sure people continue playing until the next region is out. Hoyo has been continuously giving out rewards, but they cant overdo it because if everyonr were to get a 5 star every patch, people will max it out in a week, get bored snd then stop playing.

[@lazyvoid7107]

Nah

[@thatboyhan3872]

Yall wanna knows whats more funny Cloud retainer and nahidas banner are now currently the most money making banner yet( so much for boycotting genshin)

[@NoOne-ol1oj]

The genshin community would consider spending money in hsr instead of genshin a boycott

[@blaze8308]

Either way the money will go to Hoyo 😂​@@NoOne-ol1oj

[@Silulaya]

I don't get why nobody ever brings up honkai 3rd, brings in much less revenue and is 7 years old yet is still updated with new features, double the rewards, 10x better events than genshin has ever gotten

[@ANoobInvoid]

Clearly because HI3 is struggling and if they don't give players more rewards, the game would be doomed. While genshin wouldn't really be affected as much because of the little competition.

[@Silulaya]

The point of what im saying is despite hi3 not doing nearly as well as genshin the events in hi3 are basically damn near stand alone games sometimes and fully fleshed out and give tons of stuff, unlike genshin@@ANoobInvoid

[@ANoobInvoid]

@@Silulaya oh you were refering to the events, I thought its the base games themselves.

[@yatanogarasu]

Yes, Genshin deserves more love. You don't find much open world games like that, Honkai is RPG style, which is more common in online games.

[@ANoobInvoid]

That's the reason why they would rather not give more rewards since genshin has little competition, they can just leave less rewards and make players more tempted to buy more since they don't give enough rewards...😞

[@WolfenMoony]

I think making the argument of "They don't/They do owe us anything/something" it's idiotic and have no place in this the same way we don't owe them anything, not our time or our money, it boils down to what game treats you better and which does more things to make you happier. I think it has more to do with the attachment some people have to those games be it nostalgia, be it comfort or what have you, but when it becomes a toxic relationship in the same way with real people you should let it go, and focus on things/people/games that really treat you well and don't try to stress you more. Games are supposed to be fun, to help you pass time, or immerse you in whatever world for a while. Not to stir you up draining the joy out of you and making you feel unimportant and not appreciated, we have enough of that in the real world as it is. No one owes you nothing, but at the same time it's nice feeling appreciated. For me it was never an argument. No one owes you respect, or manners yet everyone expect it, being polite, considerate and cordial is a nice thing to do even if you don't owe anyone that. It's up to us as is up to them who wants to be the a$$hole. Furthermore there's a saying that "you catch more flies with honey", there are more gachas more complete and far more generous like GranBlue Fantasy that literally gives you every day for more than a week in their anniversary when the least you can get is 20 to 30 free pulls and with a healthy possibility of every day getting 100 with a roulette when you log in, and this game is almost a decade old, so to me is a matter of whether the players want to be mistreated or if they value their time and money more.

[@atharvakpatil]

facts my brother

[@sreeragsathyan7349]

You made the right point at the start because you don't owe anything to the game and the game doesn't owe anything to us either. It's basically if you like the game you play it. If you don't like it, don't. Similarly for a company like hoyo, there will be a whole team deciding on how much they have to give the players to not absolutely kill the game. They know exactly how much Wishes requires for the majority of players to stay and play the game which is why even after sooo many years, the player base is still this huge and is getting bigger. And most of them stay because the game is good to them. If the bad parts about the game outweighs the good ones for you, why do you even play the game. Just play the game if it becomes like what you want. They are basically selling a product, so we buy it if we like it or trash it if we don't. They don't owe us money for buying their product for a year. And if you feel they need to give the rewards, it means that's what matters to you and you don't like the gameplay that much. In that case, you should stop playing because you wouldn't like the game. I would still play the game even if they give no rewards at all because the game is good imo. If you tell me about them rewarding the players for staying for 3 years, I would say the rewards they give are the good content in the game which most people like because they are still playing the game for it.

[@sreeragsathyan7349]

And I agree everyone wants to feel appreciated but isn't getting good content from the game good appreciation for us staying in the game? I consider that as an appreciation and reward for me supporting the game. I would rather have a good content to play than them giving 1000 wishes as an appreciation

[@sreeragsathyan7349]

And this is the reason I'll always prefer genshin to HSR. Because even if HSR gives us many wishes, I'll always choose genshin over HSR if I can only play one because I like genshin's content more than hsr's

[@vectory674]

I agree with your point. They are neglecting their players. And if they don't owe us free stuff we don't owe them our time and especially our money with this logic. To me the lack of effort and consideration is a thing I feel is bad. This is indeed a toxic relationship in which the players are too blind to realize they are disrespected. And the problem for me is players made the game break a point we will never see again and the lack of respect is especially hurtful in my opinion

[@jdzuniega7480]

As a day 1 player of both games, Genshin's team feels like theyre pluging their ears and screaming "la la la, cant hear you" while HSR constantly feels like its trying to be the best game it can possibly be. if the team will never listen and respect the players im just not gonna play anymore.

[@frog_penis]

EVEN if GI team will change i will never go back to this game. HSR comforted me with this hearing of feedback when I burned out of genshin and needed that the most - i will comfort HSR with money that could be spent to genshin. Of course, if they’ll continue this way.

[@aldyzero6676]

True

[@gilberito635]

lol @ the existence of the relic system

[@kahadek146]

- Generous free rewards - Free limited 5☆ unit - Weapon banners are splitted - More stamina (resin/trail power) cap - Craft build (artifact/relic) main stat - Boss rewards are not RnG in quantity - Etc. It feels like most GI problems that players whine got answered in HSR instead as it if Hoyo isn't a problematic company but the GI dev team is.

[@Cannon500]

HSR also have more competitors in the market. There are many turn based gacha RPGs in the market, so HSR need to be more generous with rewards to keep market share, especially with rate they are releasing limited 5 stars. Genshin on the other hand has no competition, and it is very hard to create a Genshin competitor due the high investment and risk associated with it.

[@ANGH3LL1C420]

Reminds me of when I tried to get into Tower of Fantasy because the lore was interesting, but then somewhere along the line I quit just because getting back up to a high investment level is painful and I'm already super committed to Genshin (Played since 1.2) so now I only watch let's plays of that game, which there aren't much of EDIT: I played Tower of Fantasy since Day 1, wonder if I should revisit it.

[@imdani4997]

Ik a lot of people want wuwa to succeed but imo people are just gonna play both games instead lol. Also, I can imagine all the toxicity wuwa would receive from a small yet loud portion of genshin players if they didn't reach their expectations on day 1 😭

[@prastagus3]

most do not have enough time to play both

[@terricon4]

There's also the argument of development priority and costs. If genshim makes more money, but also costs much more to make stuff for... then it might not have as high of a return, so they don't have the spare money/freedom to throw free characters/events around as much. Quality of life improvements are also nice, but how much dev time would they take? Some would be fast, and should already be in yes, others depending on the backend code could be pretty tricky to work in though. But here's my perspective as a game dev... Genshin impact new content and timetables, versus what I remember of honkai star rails content and update timetables... Genshin is harder to develop. The larger overworld, much greater enviornments, the numerous additional focuses on dynamic interaction, physics, etc... for your enviornments, objects etc... the core type of character combat to refine a freely controllable character with moves and jumps and complex features in an open dymaic setting to work well, versus in a turn based fix table with units in fixed places.... Basicly in gameplay or world, you just need to do a lot more, and it's often harder, for Genshin. So it might make money, but relative to how much it costs to build and update... not as much as you might think relative to the others. So, genshins team might always be focused fully on trying to actually get out that new content, build that new open world, setup all those quests and debug stuff, make the characters, abilities, etc... then make them work, all that stuff... and be crammed on that over spending time on extras. So that also might affect things somewhat, one dev team, is barely finishing their assigned tasks for their updates, while the other can do theirs much faster and more quickly, getting in more polish and having time for other bonus features/improvements in addition to their core feature lists.

[@Axterix13]

But as a counter to that, it still depends on where Genshin decides to spend its time. It could, for example, have a patch that doesn't introduce a new region, and instead gives us a rogue-like system that isn't time gated, can be run further in for greater reward progress per run, or else do more shorter runs and make the same reward progress that way, and so on, and then extend its reward track each month. It would, at its core, provide more and longer lasting content, than most of the exploration areas... things we go through once, and then subsequently only visit if we need drops or a commission sends us there. And, well, Sumeru's desert doesn't need to be nearly as big as it is for it to do those two things. Added to that, certain things, like "collect and dispatch again" expeditions are not, or at least, should not be, huge undertakings. And yet... 3 years to add that.

[@purp1e200]

​​@@Axterix13I mean.. if we look at the events they have been making for 3 years which they release every TWO WEEKS with new UIs and gameplay and stuff, we can safely assume that they can EASILY create a fuctioning endgame content in a month AT WORST.

[@Pardo_Giftshop]

HI3 in back,..he we go again..

[@m0ldymilk]

the thing is, from what i heard at least so take a grain of salt with this, Genshin's head leader was the previous head Dev of Honkai Impact 3rd for about 3 years, which the rewards were terrible from what i heard. which they replaced him with the current head dev that overlooks both Honkai games. to me, i think the biggest reason Genshin sucks is because of the head dev (or team director) I honestly think they need to replace the head dev for Genshin, i mean i dont really want anyone to lose their job, but like come on- this is like his 7th year of making a fanbase turn against you, gotta make him not the head dev anymore

[@forbiddenc4444]

I played Genshin when it had first come out, and eventually I fully quit the game around the time Dehya got announced and released. I personally really enjoyed the style and fluidity of the combat in the game, and with it being described in some places as a 'open-world action RPG' I felt like combat was going to be a focus. I spent countless hours early on running around, collecting materials, fighting monsters, and doing quests. It was a very addicting feeling which definitely was what made it so difficult to finally let it go and seeing it wasn't going the direction I was looking for. I was fully aware of what gacha games were and knew it was one going into it, but as it was the first open world gacha game, I figured some of the levels of content added would've been different as well. However, I was proven time and time again that they wanted to move to a more relaxed and casual style of gameplay over the years. I did enjoy it some time even after accepting that fact, but eventually it got to a point that felt so dull for me that I had to drop it. As different HSR and Genshin are as games, I feel like things as simple as rewards and quality of life improvements or the lack there of can be argued despite that fact. Counting from how much revenue it has already and has been receiving, I don't feel like a bit more generosity and some game improvements is a huge ask. I always do try to be understanding and was for a long time when I still played Genshin, cause game development does take a lot of time and money. However, with all of the surveys that have been answered and complaints being made about changes that have needed to be implemented for the longest time, why haven't they added them yet? And if it truly is so difficult to put into Genshin specifically, why aren't they communicating that? With the issues and complaints unanswered, it only makes all of the new surveys that appear feel redundant. On top of that with the lack of rewards then only shows a lack of appreciation for the commitment and money put into this game. I feel it is fair to say that whether the Genshin dev team intended it or not, some of the players have been convinced into learned helplessness. "Why should I complain? They aren't going to listen anyways." And while with every game or every company the one way you can hurt them all along is through money and your choice of not spending, the players have still decided not to choose that. Content creators for Genshin do add to that equation, but it is unfair and wrong to shame them for doing it when it is their job.

[@Nowaylarry]

You brought up some fair points and I am inclined to agree with most of them. That said, sadly things aren't likely to change (at least not in any large way or quickly). The only thing that would light a fire under the Genshin teams' asses is a prolonged drop in sales. That just isn't going to happen. The CN mobile sales on the most recent banner (4.4 first half) has already shown that 'gamer rage' only lasts as long as it takes to release the next new shiny thing to spend money on. The same portion of the player base that was most vocally mad about Hoyoverse lack of attention to Genshin broke post day one banner sales records. Nearly every major 'push back' by the Genshin player base has been followed with both little to no actual response by Hoyoverse and subsequent record breaking sales shortly after. The only thing that would actually effect the game is real outside competition and that is probably still years away. Genshin didn't get where it is in a vacuum. It released with near perfect timing. A lull in the AAA market, the Pandemic and a lack of comparable competitors created the perfect storm to massively broaden the initial scope of player base. Follow that up with a near unprecedented level of free marketing (it was literally everywhere on twitch, YT, twitter) that also coincided with the rise of reaction content which further spread that marketing. A competitor for Genshin would not only have to appeal to the same audience while offering something of similar or better quality. It would have to do so without all of those advantages that Genshin enjoyed at launch. It isn't enough for an action rpg gacha title to just be a good game at this point.

[@SmashTheAdam]

our only hope for now is wuthering waves i think

[@rossakura]

I think maybe Hoyoverse think that if genshin receive the same treatment as hsr, less people gonna play hsr because genshin playerbase are wayyyyy bigger than hsr at this moment and anything that they do the same with hsr the attention is going to be towards genshin instead. They dont want genshin to overshadow hsr hence all those benefits neeed to hsr exclusize only.

[@handsomejack2201]

Anyone saying GI is abandoned is just pull addict and nothing else. He doesnt care about story, exploration, characters, he just want pull for the sake of pulling.

[@XieRH1988]

The main selling point of genshin was always the open world exploration. Take that away and it's really no different from any other gacha game, with all the same flaws and predatory monetization. Right now it's been 3 years since launch and the whole open world novelty has started to wear off for a lot of people so they defer to the only thing that they still care about: pulling on new banners. Sadly it's kind of the end state of any gacha game that's been around for a long time, it inevitably gets stale and veteran players don't really care that much anymore aside from waiting to see what new characters come out. Even if you look at HSR, a lot of the content they release is very one-shot (eg. swarm disaster) or limited time minigame thing that's no different from genshin's usual fare (eg. critter pick) these are things that don't have any long term replayability value. The difference is that HSR is so new that it hasn't even reached its first anniversary yet, we haven't played the game long enough to get bored of it.

[@nrexx970]

One thing I want to throw in is that they consistently have 'parallel universe versions" of hoyo characters that have appeared in Genshin and/or HI3 kickin' around in Starrail. They're basically begging you to come over and see what a few of "your" (their) favorite characters are doing in this other continuity which just begs even further comparisons.

[@AsterWi]

fighting eachother and cannibalizing…

[@maevethefox5912]

I'll be real, if Star Rail didn't keep giving me pulls at the rate it does, I wouldn't play it. And I *like* Star Rail, but outside of the patch story drops it feels boring as heck. I like that there's more endgame options, but there has to be, because otherwise there's straight nothing to do. And even the endgame content is a mix of either boring or punishing, all of it repetitive. And again, I love the characters, I like the story, I don't hate the gameplay, but it's ultimately a mediocre game with a ton of frills that they can add because there are almost no engine mechanics they need to continuously update.

[@joji2432]

The fact that in starrail i got every character I wanted until now (its definetly not happening in the 2.0 and next patches tho 💀)

[@ralphralph8902]

Mihoyo never abandoned their games. Honkai Impact 3rd is still receiving massive updates and QoL updates even though its siblings namely Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail eclipsed its existence by miles. What sets Genshin Impact team though is their lack of apathy towards its playerbase which the other two clearly does poses. The lack of competition to this day had sadly led Genshin to its sorry state of today.

[@CerbearusBane]

Genshin will have competition soon. Project Mugen, Arknights: Endfield, and Wuthering Waves may cause Mihoyo to step up their game.

[@wodime7305]

Sorry to say this but they wont. Why? Because the genshin devs and management(including the GI producer Cai Haoyu) are so stingy thats why this game got more hated so theres a pretty chance that WuWa can end Genshin's popularity.

[@dozobi1510]

@@wodime7305 Sorry to say this but they will, the last thing a multi-billion company is a dead game. They will do what they have to do in order to get more players, if you watched the video at all, HSR only gets rewards to this extent is because of a saturated turn-based market (not to mention HSR's lack luster exploration, gameplay, loop). Genshin does not, BECAUSE they have no competition. Which will change on the hopefully competent PM and WW.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

For me personally, they are competing for some people. Specifically for time and money, some people might prefer to just invest into one. But for those who got the resources for both, yeah HSR gets better perceived recent treatment. Personally, I kinda want to see Genshin Impact expand more as an IP. Genshin Impact has so many charming characters and such a cool world, but I also find it really hard for more new players to really digest it all now. I would love some genshin impact spinoffs. Wildly curious on how ZZZ will affect this climate.

[@brightlight8852]

A few things that you said that are factually false. 1. Resouces were taken from Genshin to build Star Rail is false. Star Rail is run by a different team from Genshin. The game that Star Rail actually shares a dev team with Honkai Impact 3rd.

[@WackyIraqi777]

That's nonsense. Resources are limited by definition. Putting resources toward one project means not putting resources toward another.

[@brightlight8852]

@WackyIraqi777 And you don't think that each game doesn't have its own resources? Just so you know in order to keep Genshin running Mihoyo has hired more people, and they are a multi-billion dollar company who can actually afford to make more more than Genshin probably even easier now than they did before. The idea that Star Rail took away resources from Genshin is just copium of idiots who don't know what they are talking about but are looking to blame something or someone else other than the Genshin team because they only just now realized that Genshin could be much better than it is. Even though anyone whose been following HI3rd and GGZ have been saying that for a while. FYI Star Rail is actually run by the HI3rd team who also run several other Mihoyo games, and ZZZ also has its own separate team entirely. Genshin doesn't share a dev team with any other game.

[@Truck-kun11]

I would understand the drama if the quality of Genshin as a game had dropped, but it still remains a high quality game where it really matters: - Gameplay - Characters - Exploration - Lore - Music - Design - Etc... As long as Genshin doesn't have a significant drop in the quality of the game itself. I don't care about any drama involving free stuff or the company.

[@ANGH3LL1C420]

Same honestly. At this rate it feels like we get a new drama every patch because something isn't up to par according to the community and then it just becomes insanely toxic to the point where I do not care as long as the game's quality in the categories you mentioned doesn't take a hit.

[@overlordshiina]

It's hard to drop when you already at the lowest when it comes to simply give the player a feeling of being appreciated

[@boyishdude1234]

What about Genshin Impact is high quality aside from its art direction, music, character designs, characters (in writing), world and story? What matters the most in games is gameplay, and Genshin Impact's core gameplay loop is objectively low quality. It's progression is horrendous, its combat is bad and its open world is mostly filled with bad mission design and vapid side activities that require no thought or skill to complete, especially in Mondstadt and Fontaine. Also, with regards to all of the things you mentioned... Fontaine constitutes a substantial drop in the quality of the game. Sumeru was the superior region in all facets, especially with regards to worldbuilding. It's appalling how little environmental storytelling is present in Version 4 so far, but I guess according to many "Fontaine is better because it's prettier". Sumeru was only hated because of the unfair stigma that deserts receive in video games.

[@lawfulgoodnun1646]

The only "high quality" is the graphics and music. Everything is else is subpar especially the story being on the same level as a childrens show with 1000 episodes of filler between 1 episode actually progressing the story. and character kits are just boring and unimaginative.

[@boyishdude1234]

@@lawfulgoodnun1646 There is some degree of script bloat, especially up through Inazuma, but the story isn't subpar by any stretch. It being mostly filled with filler is both false and complete hyperbole.

[@gachawings]

While we as H: SR and genshin fights, Hoyo is the only one who laughs at the end.. Soo, instead of doing that, I will enjoy both those games and with that if I have time, I will just play other games.. And now I'm waiting for Zenless zone zero, Wuthering waves, project mugen.. Tbh genshin world is still difficult to copy or build or there will be a lots of copy of genshin style in existence... Everyone tried, but fails xD😂

[@KingTaltia]

Actually, no there isn't. Tower of Fantasy is the only "Exploration based Gacha" that came out, and it's more MMO than Genshin like. All the others haven't actively released yet. Duet Night Abyss, Wuthering Waves, etc are all still in development.

[@SanjogSaha15]

I might be wrong but ww betas are already on par with genshin world kura isnt as big of a company but they are efficiency doing great

[@meihara9415]

"it's almost like they are developed by two different companies" Because they basically are.. The Honkai series dev team is completely different from the Genshin team, there are almost no overlap between them, even their leaders are different. Only the owners are the same. Also I cannot confirm fully, but the main dude leading Honkai Impact 3rd in it's first year got Genshin, and in the first year Honkai got the same treatment as Genshin does now. The almost not caring part in Honkai's history is true, but I couldn't find wether or not the "same dude leads Genshin dev team now" part is true.

[@MoTanG_0o]

Anyone know where can I find the Volume 1 of "The Fall of the Faded Castle"? Can't find a single YT video. Or if it is even available in the game or not?

[@zerovking7629]

I just want to say right now people who think you cannot compare these games are literally missing the main comparison between the two and its the rewards they LITERALLY USE THE SAME EXACT REWARD SYSTEM!! Both are gacha games that have a 160 conversion of gems to 1 pull and yet HSR has proven time and time again to be much more generous the genshin every single patch when it comes to pulls saying you cannot compare the rewards because they are different games/genre are people I have no words for

[@lenoria]

honestly i have just been enjoying hsr since launch. of course i would still be enjoying it and loving it even if i didn't get all the free pulls and 5 stars. i do not play genshin and have not played it in a very long time. i feel like hsr is just enjoying themselves and looking forward to new updates. the genshin outrage doesn't have much to do with hsr players that just play the game.

[@Kaiji...]

How is it being abandoned? 💀

[@EiSaeko]

Background music from the start of the video: Fire Emblem: Awakening world map OST

[@ODST18]

This video as the much comments of this video with rationale and convo rather then saying GENSHIN COULD NEVER texts Ive seen but adding value to the overall convo, THANK YOU Vars II. This video is exactly what I wanted to hear and I HOPE we can use this to ask questions like this and even ask as to why the company is canabalizing their games with lack of equal/respect for their games and its fans. Solid video. Love it. 10/10 for me

[@ezekieldevesa9676]

I am of the same opinion, Vars. Genshin players DESERVE better. WE deserve better. (Sadly, the chances that Hoyo will listen are remote.) Both are phenomenal games for sure, and while it was expected, it's sad to see sister games competing or cannibalizing one another.

[@qaztim11]

I dont know, while i dont think we will get big changes like the community is asking, but in times past, when honkai impact got this level of chinese fan backlash, things did get better, and since the backlash is now worldwide, we might get some small improvements. However, things will only truly improve if the backlash continues and banner revenue drops considerably, but since a lot of casual spenders dont really follow the drama channels it will be hard for it to happen

[@ezekieldevesa9676]

​@@qaztim11here's hoping, I guess

[@GODCHAMA]

​@@qaztim11it's been 4 years now yet we're still coping

[@Yuuki_Youtube]

the link to your main channel on your VARS II youtube channel hasn't been working

[@NotQuartz]

Man as a Legends of Runeterra player, it being mentioned in this video after the recent announcements hurt so much more than expected... Let me forget about it's effective death in peace

[@sanjeethmahendrakar]

Genshin technically is getting attention and respect it deserves, just not in the part of the game the vocal players are interested in. While hoyo hasn't done much for genshin's combat and QoL, which is unfortunate, they've gone above and beyond for their open world. Clear examples for this is Fontaine and its underwater areas. Hell even Chenyu Vale which has gone back to the standard land based traversal still brings something different while exploring. So its just a matter of what they prioritize in each game. So the comparison seems a tad pointless to me. For example, it would be unreasonable for me to complain about the lack of exploration in HSR knowing that its not the main priority for that particular game.

[@rushalias8511]

Finally someone's says it. Genshin puts it's time and effort not in simple stuff like small qol features and free rewards. It puts it into making these massive and beautiful areas to explore. Like the game isn't marketed for heavy combat and action...it's marketed as an open world game. The open world is literally the end game, half maybe more of the map is legit not relevant for the main story the archon quest...it's really just there for end game exploration. A lot of people just don't seem to like or take time to appreciate that and just complain about non renewal able endgame combat modes.

[@thegreatBarbossa]

yeah, it's clear that they are still putting a lot of effort in but that doesn't really matter much when a large number of players have been asking for quality of life features or new endgame content and the devs just haven't been listening. it's not as much about time and effort, it's about addressing issues the community has. the fact that they have been ignoring the wishes of a large number of the playerbase for 3 years is the problem. and if they do adress an issue it takes them like 2 years to do so, like how they only made cooldowns reset when you restart abyss last year.

[@kennethyoung7457]

@@rushalias8511People complaining about endgame content will never stop complaining about endgame content because its in their nature to consume content as fast as possible. Especially if they are content creators who play the game as a job the average player doesn't even do the abyss we have now. Its been 3 years and people still can't accept Genshin isn't trying to be a hardcore combat game. Hoyoverse other game Honkai Impact 3rd is providing that experience somewhat but again if you are a spender or dedicated f2p the endgame is still just a matter of resource grinding. Star Rail is providing combat related content but that is just about all thats in the game you can't go fishing, or go play cards, or go customize your teapot. All the qol features in Star rail ironically just make you play the game less like dailies can be completed in seconds depending on whats on the list. You can auto 99% of content and you can skip story cutscenes to get straight to the auto combat and than rewards. The more you play the game the less you will have to play the game which is why people fall off of games at the endgame in the first place. I'm experiencing this in Counterside right now I basically auto all my dailies and than log off unless theres new story. At least there you have pvp to play though, but most of the vocal gacha gamers see pvp as the bane of the genre.

[@sanjeethmahendrakar]

@@thegreatBarbossa A couple of things to note... You mention "a large number of players have been asking for QoL and endgame". How large exactly? Do you have a number to go off on? Because Hoyo definitely has that number because they have the player data and considering their inaction in this department I don't think you guys are the majority here. Just look at how they rolled out features for the teapot and TCG which doesn't have a huge presence online. Either they are wasting their time and money on those aspects of the game for no apparent reason, which I seriously doubt, or there is a significant interest in those aspects of the game from players that is not reflected in the online KZbin/Twitter/reddit discourse. It's just a different playerbase and therefore different priorities.

[@mr.edelweiss]

There isn't a *competition* when they are literally made by a *different team dev,* but the *same company.*

[@ClubDuck]

The problem is, they shouldn't even be competing. They're two different games of two different genres and while they are made by the same company, they shouldn't be compared because of how drastically different the two games are.

[@krawchick4418]

I think hoyo didn't like how players reacted to the anniversary, so they just gave up on the player base, cause they'll risk some big move and people will hate it and it's double damage

[@excalibuur9925]

Honestly, it's really disappointing to see genshin's state right now. I've been a player of the game since 1.1 so I've seen how much it developed over time and to see that in the 3+ years that it's been running to show such small and slow progression in the quality of life changes that it offers is still baffling to me. It took 4 major patches before the group-wide redeployment of expedition quests were added, for artifact pre-sets to be SORT of a thing, for quest mapping and navigation to be a little more decent. Yet there's still a TON of things that are needed to improve the game like its lack of endgame content, quest management, lack of incentive to get rewards (which don't even give us enough for a SINGLE wish) and so much more. And to see how star rail managed to implement all of this in the span of a few months just drives the nail in the coffin. I'm slowly but surely moving on from genshin to star rail. I just do commissions and then log-out. Despite it being open-world, I find the exploration being boring nowadays. The chests' and the quests' rewards are not enticing enough to warrant hours-worth of my time. The world feels so dead without its characters. Once you finish their story quests they're just *poof* gone, you'll never see them again unless it's in a TIME-locked event. Co-op is basically a dead concept in this game. They have implemented no game mechanics that incentivizes people to socialize with one another. Which is another thing I don't like about this game; the community is toxic. I feel that there's a sense of entitlement that genshin players today have. How they think that just because they've played a SINGLE gacha game means that everything else is a genshin copy. I remember the time when hoyolabs was just a sizable community of people sharing their common interest for the game. All of just were vibing and sharing our thoughts on our favorite unreleased characters, as well as how the future of the game will play out (Like how we speculated what dendro reactions would be like) But as of now, I don't see a bright future for the game. I'm sure that people will still play it for years to come, but seeing as how the community is so divided right now, I feel like hoyoverse has to take action or else the state of this game will dramatically change. This has not been the first time that the fanbase attacked the game (first anniversary flashbacks) so I won't be surprised if genshin will address the concerns and possibly improve the rewards for the 3rd anniversary, but then again, don't get your hopes up. This is hoyoverse after all; they've failed to engage with its playerbase time and time again.

[@why-so-toxic_1413]

I like the turn base makes me use brain for once

[@Azaro_64]

Star Rails combat system is probably one of the most basic turn based combat systems ever tho, I'd say thay even Pokemon needs more brain power lmao

[@recsmile7914]

you've made a very good point that gameplay simplicity caters for far greater audience. i came to genshin practically on relise and came for gameplay specifically. it's a pity seeing that the game chose to develop in the direction of storytelling rather than providing challenges for older players, but it's a wise decision in terms of catering for a target audience

[@Helianthinae]

Amazing video as usual Vars! Personally, other than what everyone else is saying in the comments, I think something nobody has mentioned yet is: yes, star rail is "more generous", but the only reason why that matters is because their gacha have the same rates I dont think the games would be compared so much if the rates were different Even if the games are WILDLY different in setting and genre, the ground for comparison is that their rates are (pretty much) the same the rate for acquisition of a new character (which is what makes these games exciting, after using the same characters for months it gets so old), SHOULD BE the same, so it simply makes no sense for Genshin to have a WAYYY slower rate than HSR It REALLY doesn't matter if Genshin Impact doesnt REQUIRE you to build less characters because at the end of the day, we want NEW characters to play with And again if that process of getting new character, building new character, using new character takes WAY LONGER in genshin then yea, its no wonder people think star rail is so generous AND thats not even taking into consideration the fact that HSR actually has more content for you to use your built characters on

[@KudaGeatsune3821]

Its not cannibalism its envy Star rail keeps getting improvements while genshin just keeps resting on its laurels until assumedly wuthering waves gives it a reality check or genshin gets a new producer

[@user-sl8ol6tq6f]

Okay, let us see a reality check from wuthering waves) another tof incident incoming lol, i am also want to play ww but no way it will beat genshin

[@zgrat]

IMO the developers of Genshin are falling into the same trap that WoW fell into: they are the biggest game in their category, have no competition and won't listen to the player base. This caused the players to be less and less loyal to the game. Eventually another game came out that did some/all of the things players have been asking the Wow devs for and they left. The previous expansion (Shadowlands) destroyed the trust the players had in the game and now the devs are bending over backwards trying to appease the player base in order to keep them from leaving. They seemed to have learned their lesson but the player base still doesn't trust them. They know that if they don't keep up the good work the players will leave. I don't think Genshin is there yet but if the devs don't address the concerns the players have they'll leave when newer games that were designed to compete with Genshin start coming out this year and next.

[@tarabrooks9416]

Exactly but we left WOW endgame dead desert & bad water mechanics for Genshin beta & now what? no endgame=dead game

[@Axterix13]

I think you're comparing it to the wrong game. It is Everquest, not WoW. EQ revolutionized its genre, like Genshin has. EQ's devs had a tendency to not listen to what their players were telling them should be improved. EQ's success led to imitators, but those games lacked something, especially when competing with a game with extra time since release to develop content, and so while they might pull players away from EQ for a bit, they inevitably lost them. And then WoW hit... a game that didn't lack something. A game that not only listened to those players EQ had been ignoring, but actually hired them to help make the game better. And EQ never recovered from it, while WoW flew to far, far greater heights. GI, right now, is EQ, prior to WoW coming out. Prideful, arrogant, and ignoring the dissatisfaction of its players. And should a WoW come out, it too shall pay the price.

[@pixadragon46]

Hi vars whats your take on honkai impact 's treatment?

[@theroguenob]

We also still haven't gotten genshin on switch

[@d1tto232]

There's a reason why Apple is a bigger company than Samsung even though Samsung always do giveaways phones tablets etc, something that you never see Apple doing and still become a trillion dollar company, HSR is trying hard to not being forgotten something that is already happening with people movin on to new games that's why they are trying hard to please people and the only people using this to bash hoyoverse are people that already hate Genshin and either don't play the game anymore or not spend money anymore and that also explain why the Massive boycott failed

[@SirthOsiris]

My thoughts were they chose Ratio to be free was testing: Hunts fell behind because of destruction units being overpowered and more useful recently, and with Pure Fiction Erudition started becoming meta. So pure single target was falling behind outside Seele, who becomes destruction upon killing a unit. Plus my dreams are telling me they're looking at more units like Welt: debuff DPS, and Ratio gets some help from debuff units. And then finally the idea we lack any decent and easy to get imaginary units (Yukong keeps getting "only good at E6" opinions). So I think in the end, they chose the limited unit for ulterior motives, massively generous as it was.

[@Asteroux]

Speaking of Tower of Fantasy, I dropped the game after getting Lin's weapon. That said, I am not afraid to try and go after Wuthering Waves. The thing about ToF that appealed to me was the sci-fi aspect to its genre. And funnily enough, Honkai Star Rail and Wuthering Waves seem to have this sort of concept in mind, hence why I am playing HSR and am waiting for WW news/release.

[@Alderberanirgal]

There's definitely more to it. I've been waiting for 3 years for a content creator to explore the reason, and still waiting.

[@birch2377]

I mean honestly my only opinion on the conversation is unless the actual content that genshin puts out drops in quality, I don't really care how hoyoverse treats one playerbase or another. I don't need a free five-star character or extra pulls. I don't know, sure it's nice but I just don't really care enough or have enough time to get really upset over it. Same with quality of life updates and five star kits-- it just doesn't seem that important to me. Genshin is still releasing amazing, well-designed new regions and while I have some gripes with parts of the archon quest I still like it, and that's what's important. I think that makes me feel respected more than extra wishes.

[@anthonyrivera5055]

Im curious to see if the discontent will transfer to a decrease in sales or not

[@PrometheanKitchen96]

I also think that it's easier to get the units you want in Star Rail than in Genshin because I have more than half. I have like 14 plus units already and there's only like 24 or more units in Star Rail and I only have like maybe 7 or 8 units Genshin

[@saimfaisal6795]

Genshin and star rail do have different lead designers and stuff, and that's a big problem. Apparently, this happened with hi3 too, but after their lead came to genshin, rewards became more common. So we just need to wait for this guy to move somewhere else for genshin to recover. Also, the most important reason for their cannibalism is due to them being developed at the same time, so updates are more common to be around eachother and obviously will lead to comparing and contrasting. It's pretty sad tho

[@Truck-kun11]

You don't know how annoying it is every time HSR does anything you find more people saying how much they hate Genshin than people enjoying the game itself. And unfortunately, many content creators fuel the conflict for engagement as negativity sells well.

[@boyishdude1234]

Not really surprising. Genshin Impact is an objectively bad game.

[@rushalias8511]

​@boyishdude1234 I'm going to have to ask just what exactly makes it so. Since the game by all accounts should be the other way around. It does way more than many other free to play games on its base game than many triple aaa titles.

[@ajakakakak]

@@boyishdude1234 Genshin has a bad team but the game itself is pretty good. There’s so many wonderful things about it which makes it suck even harder when the team doesn’t listen and does shit like this

[@boyishdude1234]

@@rushalias8511 Just because the game does more than a lot of other free games that doesn't mean that what it does is high quality. Genshin Impact has: 1) Terrible combat (bad enemy design, bad encounter balancing and a shallow combat system that completely lacks mechanical decision-making despite being about real-time action). 2) Vapid open world side activities that are usually braindead and require no thought or skill (much quality exploration, many wow. You can really feel the "substance" with Fontaine's exploration). This also feeds into the issue of the game having too much repeated "content". 3) Often bad environmental storytelling. Why is it that almost the entirety of Fontaine as a region tells no story outside of its quest dialogues when most of the environments in Sumeru and Inazuma told a story in addition to the stories told in quests? Sumeru has objectively better open world storytelling, yet for some reason Fontaine is considered to be the best region of the game so far despite it failing to accomplish the most basic elements of ludology in an open world game? 4) Terrible mission design (go here, talk to NPC, go here, talk to NPC, go here, talk to NPC, go to a "dungeon", kill a couple basic enemies and maybe pick up a chest or two while inside, and most importantly don't use your brain for anything). 5) Bad puzzle design (is it really a puzzle if solving it is completely based on luck rather than the player's intelligence?). 6) Bad balancing (I doubt this needs much explanation since you're on a Vars video). 7) Bad progression (I hope you like doing chip damage to everything in the game at WL6-Wl8 until you grind artifacts for long enough so that your characters are overpowered). 8) Bad game feel (the game is just really clunky across the board with both basic movement across the game world and many characters feeling horrible, and the lack of infinite stamina for running while outside of combat is a glaring design oversight that makes the pacing in the open world suck). Among various other issues. The game has a ton of problems. Most of the people who think Genshin Impact is good either have extremely low standards or have never played a better game.

[@boyishdude1234]

@@ajakakakak There's nothing "wonderful" about Genshin Impact as a game aside from its art direction, character designs, characters, stories, world and music. Everything else about it has a myriad of issues, including the commonly lauded open world.

[@emberthecatgirl8796]

The biggest difference is that the people behind Honkai: Star Rail are visibly invested in the game, from the story writers through the map designers to the gameplay programmers - their efforts virtually spill out of HSR, while Genshin (as an open world RPG) has much less room to express itself like that.

[@LongingSubset9]

It's not just that. But the writing and quest design in Genshin is actually terrible. Archon quests for a while now felt like playing through 4-5 hours of Naruto filler episodes while only the last 5-10 minutes have any actual substance. And these quests are filled with time-vampire designs like the prison. Which was pointlessly large and didn't feel like a prison at all. In Star Rail, they can actually write quests and stories that at least are interesting + the Trailblazer has an actual character, while the Traveler is just a mute follower of Paimon.

[@Kittlekit]

Maybe because Genshin is open world with real-time combat it is more expensive for the company to operate (bandwidth, latency, processing power etc.) than a turn-based game so they are focusing on games with similar earnings and less operating costs?

[@user-ku8yi5to4f]

So genshin is doomed from the start

[@Blizzardshot]

The lack of rewards was because the guy in charge of giving them was in hi3 and when he went to genshin hi3 got more generous with the new lead who is also in star rail

[@bangtanssera]

i support every word in this video, thank you for being mature in this topic

[@hikomoriko]

This video made me change my feelings about the supposed competition. I gained a different understanding to the free pulls given by HSR considering how you sort of need an element for each class for combat. Even still, it'll be great if Genshin gave us at least the same QoL changes they gave to HSR.

[@StArShIpEnTeRpRiSe]

The whole thing based on a misunderstanding. Every company has 1 main title, and many side. For example Rockstar games has GTA and a RDR or Bully game never be as important to the company as a GTA. Now Hoyo main title is Honkai. There are 4 Honkai games and the most important one is HI3rd. Genshin just a side game, like Tears of Themis, it's success only happened because it was released during lockdown. Hoyo not abandon it's old games for a new one, this is only said by fools who know nothing about HI3rd. If Genshin players would know about HI3rd they would be far more mad than they now about Star Rail. Just look the Part 2 trailers of HI3rd...

[@Sandy-ws2wm]

Right fortunately people like are there to say the truth

[@SanjogSaha15]

Its very true they knew genshin was a failed project that somehow became popular so they are just doing what they gotta do and end the game as soon as possible to make hsr better and hi3 2nd part the best game they ever made

[@Balbaneth]

Im tired of this hate between each other we are both gamers...this is stupid. Irony is i do not see valorant or league hating each other. Also Cai is the problem he did the samething to hi3 before moving to Genshin. No one is talking about it besides a few, different lead producers

[@Saythra]

The thing I personally find wild, is that i keep seeing advertisements for "80 free pulls to try star rail now!" Yet a new account of genshin gets, what? 20? Or that seems like star rail gets a full 10 pull every version update? (Dont play so i dont know for sure) Personally I hate that I have to wait months between pulling for characters I want. Or that certain characters got put in the standard banner, yet their signature weapons didn't. More than anything, i just want anything I have to grind with resin, to suck less. Like when you first start, you're just cobbling together whatever you can. Trying to balance all your resin spending between character/weapon ascension mats, xp books, artifacts... And god forbid you miss a day and that "precious" resin goes to waste.

[@fawad9407]

wuthering waves is making waves (pun intended) and likely going to be that competition for genshin

[@ReaperCet]

They're specifically NOT competing with each other. That's the problem If you want a game with good exploration and satisfying (but shallow) combat play genshin. If you want a game that treats you like a human being and has adult male characters and reasonable QoL, play star rail. If you want a game with deeper combat, genuinely interesting characters models, and basically nothing else, play ZZZ These games are designed in a way that one person could find a reason to play all 3 simultaneously

[@c.voyegger4421]

It almost feels like Mihoyo is intentionally making sacrifice of Genshin to aid Star Rail

[@Sandy-ws2wm]

No way

[@Sandy-ws2wm]

I want to the full story I like genshin than starrail even the starrail is quite good

[@c.voyegger4421]

​@@Sandy-ws2wm It actually makes sense if you think about it. When Genshin was first launched, it's player base was about 15m, and after half a year it almost doubled to 30m, and has been in a steady increase for the next two years. Now look at Honkai Star Rai, it has a playerbase of 20m at launch, and it stayed at 20m after half year of launch. For a newly released game with no tendency of increase in it's player base is a bad sign.

[@c.voyegger4421]

And look at what's happening, the entire gaming social media is talking about how bad Genshin is and at the same time making HSR stand out like a star. Every single problem they found in Genshin are offered a solution by HSR, and all these happens right before HSR 2.0 update, coincedence? With this drama taking place HSR player base are gonna rocket very soon. And as for Genshin, if devs release another 1k+ primo compensation and people just move on like the first anniversary drama. Same old 60m player base unscrateched Now imagine what if Genshin made their reward and quality of life improvement exactly the same as HSR: Genshin stays at 60m players no matter what as their player base are pretty much salturated(remained 60-70m since mid 2023) HSR also stays the same, 20m with no means to bump this number. Though I admit it's bold to assume a gaming company would actually use such reckless strategy in marketing. It's unlikely the 4.4 livestream drama was what Mihoyo intented, but they might be biding their moment for an explosive event like that to happen in order to market out HSR Genshin and HSR are fighting and doesnt matter if Genshin win or lose cuz mihoyo is the house and the house always win. They already made everyone on the internet talking about THEIR games. At least I personally find this theory more logical and plausible than the alternative, which is Genshin devs being too stupid and lazy to do minor QoL improvement and give better rewards while HSR already set up a template for them

[@obob6309]

@@c.voyegger4421 You've pretty much figured it out. Genshin has basically no room to grow and has no real open world gacha competition. HSR on the other hand has the ability to compete with other turn based strategy games for players and has plenty of room to get bigger from giving out rewards. This is all while likely costing a third of what Genshin costs to develop. Genshin is already so big that since they wouldn't make much more money from giving out more rewards they might as well wait until they need to win back players from a competitor like Wuthering Waves, then add QOL, rewards, endgame, etc.

[@Sergus914]

I think they give more in Starrail because it turn base so at one point you wont have choice to get better character to do content compare to genshin where it work with elemental reaction and you can dodge attack from enemy so with that you can do pretty much every content with same team

[@theymon]

Funnily enough, i got a star rail ad AND THEN a genshin ad in the beginning... Both non-skippable

[@klkcruzklk]

Your last comment about Genshin driving down every other game is very true. As someone who has spent a non trivial mount of money in Genshin, I am not planning on spending a cent in StarRail. And the fact that I feel like StarRail rewards me better for my time is what makes me not want to spend any more money on a Hoyo title.

[@davepatois297]

One thing to take into account is powercreep. Honkai star rail, and as I've heard HI3, have significantly better rewards than Genshin. But this is by design. As we've seen during the entirety of HSR 1.X, this game will have powercreep, unlike Genshin, which even 3 years after its release has only really powercrept a few standard 5★s. I think Mihoyo's idea is to give more generous rewards as a compensation for an ever evolving power curve. HSR has to make sure casual and occasional players don't fall behind the curve, thus they're way more generous with free gems and even free units. Comparatively, someone who quit genshin two years ago will still come back to their account ready to take on the hardest contents, and still containing top tier units. Thus, Genshin rewards don't have the same incentive to make people keep up with the release cycle of new units.

[@kaedeAoi27]

This! People are getting tricked by the short term rewards, if they actually think about it I'd say HSR NEEDS the extra rewards for the ridiculous powercreep it's been getting. I play both and man it's hard without Black Swan or any new characters (been saving for Acheron since I knew of her)

[@riven4121]

@@kaedeAoi27 I mean this just sounds like a skill issue. Take Pure Fiction the latest endgame mode. The most broken unit in PF isn't even any of the recent 5*s it's Herta who was regarded as the worst character in the game next to Yanqing.