The 4-Star Problem is STILL Getting Worse

Today we talk AGAIN about how 4 stars are even LESS free to play friendly as they used to be.
If you want to see me build and test EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER please consider subscribing, it really helps out :)
Thank you SO MUCH to the patrons:
Opi8, kdz, Jay and Bryan for buying me dinner,
Matt, Paweł, Potemkin for buying me lunch,
And Artentus, Caitlin, chamchamtrigger,
David, David M, herzbube, and SuilongV3 for buying me coffee
You guys are amazing~~~ patreon.com/JelloImpact?...
--------------------------
Discord: / discord
A good chunk of my music is done by @tnbee www.youtube.com/@tnbee/videos they make awesome covers of hoyoverse music! check them out!
A lot of information in general I learn from theorycrafters and creators such as Zajef77 / @zajef77 , The Genshin Scientist / @thegenshinscientist , Jamie / @jamiekb9v , Jstern25 / @jstern25 , Flip / @fliponyt Thundah www.youtube.com/@Thundah090/v... and of course KQM keqingmains.com/ . If I ever directly lift any specific info from any of them specificially I will additionally credit with a shoutout in the video or first part of description. I always do my own extensive testing of course, but often these guys create a baseline that every creator starts at, and most of us wouldn't be able to do what we do to the level we do it without these guys creating a foundation. If you think anyone else should be credited here, let me know and I'd love to add them.
For business inquiries, collabs, sponsors, or if you need to reach me for something, my email is [e-mail]
#genshinimpact #hoyocreators #fontaine #genshinguide #spiralabyss #showcase #genshin #guide #instructional #natlan
0:00 What is the problem exactly?
1:50 Banner Frequency Problems
6:51 Gacha Problems
9:47 Constellation Power Spikes
13:31 How it comes together, what you can do
19:37 What does Genshin need to do?

[@JelloImpact]

Who else is kinda down bad for devil faruzan all of a sudden?

[@usmanya5110]

me.. i haven't been lucky at all this patch, my faru is still c4 from the last patches.😭😭😭

[@zuemoe5005]

Anemo is my favorite element, I would love to play main DPS Kazuha, Wanderer, etc. but the wall of trying to get 7 pretty much mandatory copies of Faruzan is pretty disheartening.

[@Degen9111]

Exxxxxxxcuse me??!?

[@babylon1378]

Hey Jello, I just joined the discord and would honestly be more than happy to make you a spreadsheet of my cons for research. I’ve been playing since 2.2

[@joelazaro461]

I did Faruzan's hangout today and I kind of like her as a character, but with her at c1 I wonder if winning a couple of Favonius weapons instead would have been more impactful. I don't see myself pulling for any 5* weapons until I have "enough" c0 5* characters and switch to vertical investment mode. At least the archons appear regularly and they're always good.

[@blue._sam]

160 wishes on wanderer's banner: only c1 faruzan 140 wishes on raiden's banner: only c1 Sara Can't even use them properly

[@alexanderericson8628]

I feel this and I think it's just straight up unfair. If you get c6 on the right characters it accelerates your account so far its not even funny. You can start 36 star much earlier which equals more pulls, which equals more characters.

[@StillQiqiless]

Meanwhile me getting C6 kujou Sara in 90 wishes and then losing 5050 to tighnari on Raiden's banner. Mihoyo never fails to disappoint.

[@magiclover9346]

Yup took me a solid year of wishing every time they turned up to c6 them. Only just c6'd my Faruzan this patch. Took 105 wishes for two copies. Meanwhile I c4'd Gaming who I wasn't chasing, also lost a 50/50 along the way

[@Jinp4chiEGO]

​@@StillQiqilessid rather lose 5050 but get sara c6. But i won, and then i wish till the next 5 stars, it wasnt raiden. C2 sara in oblivion

[@passwordyeah729]

Same, brother. 90 wishes on Raiden's and only C0 Chevreuse

[@katangwemumbi1996]

Also, imagine if every region had their own 4 star selector for their dedicated event. Mondstadt with the Windblume festival, Inazuma with the Irodori Festival, Sumeru with the Sabzerus Festival....not sure what specific festival Fontaine would have

[@TJF588]

Fontanalia

[@plvto1]

The Fontanalia Film Festival, or they could just make another one. They love festivals.

[@Lennis01]

This is my first Lantern Rite. Can anyone tell me when the other festivals usually happen? It would be nice if I could finish exploring Inazuma and Sumeru before their festivals hit.

[@katangwemumbi1996]

@@Lennis01 Lantern Rite is probably the most consistent annual event due to its association with Chinese New Year. Everything else is kind of random with how often they appear. Fontaine had its first (and only) festival to date because its new, Mondstadt has had Windblume festival a couple of times, Inazuma has the Irodori festival twice (I think...my +3 year memory on this game is quite bad), Sumeru has the Sabzerus festival to celebrate the birth of Lesser Lord Kusanali so I'd assume thats their premier event. Edit: forgot to include the Mondstadt festival associated with Wine and Poetry....or is it Wine and Song? 🤔 I think that event will reappear at some point.

[@katangwemumbi1996]

@@TJF588 I don't think Fontanalia Film Festival would be their premier event like the others I mentioned, thats why I was hesitant to include it. All other regional festivals I mentioned have ties to their archon in some way, and Fontaine has only had one festival so....its a good shout for now, but perhaps they will have another festival with a bit more significance to their region

[@joeyhaddock3638]

I feel like they should add a birthday banner for every character where you get a 5050 for 1day only (on there birthday of course) it also fixes the waiting too long for a rerun problem

[@N.biebie8428]

Not gonna happen hoyo level of greet with money is way up there we can’t be seen

[@nastizzle]

The "how it comes together" section was really eye opening. I'm so used to thinking of 4 stars as free to play, but it really is less investment to just go with a 5 star most of the time.

[@nastizzle]

Come to think of it, the last time I went for a 4 star I ended up with Ayato before C2 Kuki 😅

[@SoulHydron]

You never go for 4 stars as a f2p. Only go for 5 stars and you just work with whatever else the game gives you. If you're impatient its a recipe for disaster and disappointment unless u have a big wallet :l I feel like Jello kind of missed that as a theory crafter and not really a f2p but most f2p players don't have many "perfect" teams. And also Genshin's designed where you don't need the most meta teams or units and you can make your own teams however u want.

[@BlackPointt]

Yup yelan and xingqiu are perfect example since they are often compared like ppl say go for xin cuz he is f2p friendly saying he is better then her if you compare c6 vs c0 yelan. I personnaly had c0 yelan with favonious bow at first and she was an amazing unit either as support or have her as a dps main driver of ur team, but yeh since i loved her and she is amazing for overworld exploration got her to c1 and pulled her weap(was even easier choice since her rerun that time was with hutao so there was staff of homa running along side it so just win/win situation). So yeh either way for new ppl joining the game just simply aim for the 5* units just like he said kazuha nahida furina yelan are just amazing supports that will carry you through all the content, ofc unless ur aiming for specific units then yeh ur pretty screwed lol i mean i am also a day1 player and just now after 3years i managed to get rosaria to c6 because she often times appeared on banners i didnt want to pull or when she did i probably just got 1 copy of her.

[@eoozy2617]

@@SoulHydron Still waiting on getting my first 5 star, got so many 4 stars but they're atleast fun to play so I'm not complaining

[@SoulHydron]

@@eoozy2617 gl!

[@kwayke9]

The starglitter shop needs to be revamped asap. Chevreuse and Yaoyao are great recent 4*s tho

[@thebuddhasmiles]

Chevreuse should definitely be on the shop, because the overload meta is real. HOWEVER, I'm not sure about YaoYao. She is great, but she doesn't really need constellations.

[@usmanya5110]

@@thebuddhasmiles i also somewhat wished gaming and mika, Rosaria were when we looked at the st shop. most of them are from liyue or mondstadt. though it would be nice for fontaine characters ofc like chevreusse.

[@kwayke9]

​@@thebuddhasmileshonestly, I'd just add whatever 4*s are on rate up into the shop and make it rotate every 3 weeks instead of every month. And maybe add some 5*s there (standard or even the current limited ones) lile in Star rail

[@thebuddhasmiles]

@@kwayke9 you know as well as I do that genshin will never let us purchase 5 stars The only 4 stars I want to see in the shop are the ones that are good/functional. That means Benny, XQ, XL, Chevreuse and so on. NOT Sara, Dori or Kaveh.

[@nicwolf1370]

​@@thebuddhasmilesSara would be great. Get a C2 Raiden but C5 Sara? Shopping time.

[@SundayMatinee]

You're absolutely right. If I had a dollar for every time a CC, guide-maker, or streamer said to me, "oh you don't have C4 Xiangling? Why not?" or "Where's your Kuki? C'mon! EM Raiden is cringe!", I'd be a millionaire by now. These people who whale have NO CLUE what F2P or low spenders have on their accounts. Unless Hoyo does something about 4 stars, it is *absolutely* better to just get the 5 star, even C2 of a 5 star, than targeting a 4 star. We saw that in your Raiden pulls video.

[@hectorlackless]

Tbf at lesst xiangling can be bought in the shop and you get 1 for free+you can also get her in latern rite. Maybe you just don't have that much time in the game? You will catch on eventually I am f2p and have almost all 4 stars with many of them in a high con level. Tho it maybe be harder for you because of the larger starting poll and getting c6s for specifics definately sucks

[@kanoaika]

Look at the actual statistics instead of making claims like that or you will be stooping to the same level as the uninformed people who expected you to have those cons. We know the rates and it is trivial to either calculate probability of getting a character in n pulls yourself or use a gacha calculator to do it for you. Because you can make informed decisions on when to try for the 5* or go for the 4* by using the expected value. The value of 4*'s (in the context of limited resources like f2p) it the team options it opens up and the characters/banners it allows you to skip (and thus wishes you can save for the most important investments). While the rates are undeniably bad (I agree with the general point that this should be improved) it is easy for a 4* to be the best option. I started in 3.7, cleared 12 first in 4.0, and got 36* for the first time in 4.4. C0 Xingqiu saved me from needing Yelan, C0 Diona/Xingqiu/C1 Beidou saved me from Zhongli, C0 Kuki saved me from spending on Raiden, C1 Beidou was the defensive electro option that I could put with Neuvilette while still having enough damage (especially with Kazuha) to 36 star with my not amazing artifacts. The reason I have C2 Nahida and C0 Furina is because I had those 4* which gave me the option to save for the most important upgrades for my teams. If you plan carefully taking into account the probability of getting the 4*, the number of pulls you have/will have when characters you need come, and value of the characters for *your* account it can be a wise decision to include 4*'s in your pulling decisions. The bottom line is that dogma (either for or against 4* value for f2p) is no substitute for actually understanding the game and making informed rational decisions for your situation. In regards to your mention of seeing it proven in his Raiden pull video, my counterpoint is that the problem was not going for the 4*, the problem was going for the 4* blindly. The number of pulls you spend on a banner should be determined by the expected value of your pulls and the opportunity cost (i.e. what if anything are you not getting if you spend here). When you get those clear you simply pull until your opportunity cost is greater than the expected reward. You can make it more or less complicated by how you calculate the value of each unit, but a simple way to do this is to list up coming characters you want, your available wishes, and the 4* characters on the banner. Then you just assign a cost/fair price/budget for each character you want. Pull until you either get everything you want or spend all your budgeted wishes. It is simple and very effective. The problem is not going for a 4*, it is not setting a good upper limit of what a character is worth.

[@lindahhh]

@@kanoaikamf wrote bible

[@kanoaika]

@@lindahhhlol

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

Came back to the game missing Sumeru era and everyone and their mom said hyperbloom is broken. Wait how do you do that? Lisa HB is cringe. It's Kuki or Raiden and I had neither. Cue hypocritical comments saying they are accessible and saying it's possible to get them. How? Wait for months? Then remember how the only good hydro unit 4*is still XQ and the only other one is an equally unaccessible Candace? Play Barbara on field with Kuki? It was just easier to build a team with what I had.

[@daxrcy]

Kaveh is one of my favorite characters in the game. I saved and spent *300 pulls* to C6 him. He is C5 to this day; he hasn't had a rerun in over 9 months now.. and I've had no luck on standard banner or getting him as an off-rate on other banners of course. He doesn't really need his C6, but it still irritates me to think that I spent as much as I could, got three five stars that I didn't really want at the time, and still don't have him maxed out. Edit: I commented this before you said nobody wants him LMAOO I use him as main DPS to 36* every new abyss now

[@doveslizleskiss2956]

another kaveh main here, can you share your build pls? statistically mine's gotta be broken but i keep seeing low numbers :( any tips? thanks!

[@daxrcy]

@@doveslizleskiss2956 Sure! I currently am building him on the Maracheusse Hunter set, which kind of requires Furina to be on his team. I would definitely recommend an em sands and crit dmg circlet for that set, and goblet can be either em or dendro dmg, whichever has better substats. As for his weapon, I ran Serpent Spine on him for a long time, but recently pulled Navia's weapon for aesthetics ngl, so I don't really have to worry about crit rate at all on the Hunter set. With that being said, I'm aware my team and build for him is like really high investment, so as an alternative I'd recommend 4pc gilded set or any combinations of 2pc em, 2pc dendro dmg, and 2pc atk (or 2pc emblem if you need the er). Claymores are quit limited on options, so you'll probably have to go with an er or em mainstat. Favonius Greatsword is great for energy, of course (which Kaveh does need, I've managed to take care of it in substats and Baizhu/Nahida particle gen).. Mailed Flower R5 is quite a good option for him if you've completed the Windblume event a year ago. And there is a craftable Sumeru claymore called "Forest Regalia" that you could craft to R5 as well. Honestly Kaveh is quite a weak character at base, and in order to use him regularly in Abyss, it'll depend more on your teammates than anything. My full team is Kaveh / Furina / Raiden / Baizhu. Hyperbloom is definitely his best team, since he can just drive it with mediocre damage. Before Furina's release I also used Xingqiu / Kuki / Nahida, and although other dendro options are typically considerable downgrades.. you can replace Nahida with Dendro Main Character if you don't have her yet. I know this was long asf, but good luck on your artifact farming! I hope you can get Kaveh to hit some bigger numbers than before.

[@sidejyll9667]

Based on leaks they said that he'll have a rerun in Kazuha and Neuvilettes banner so be on the ready

[@daxrcy]

@@sidejyll9667 I'll have to skip it unfortunately so I hope that's not true

[@on3zt2ey9c]

​@@sidejyll9667i only returned to the game after years of not caring because i saw him and the whole new bunch of sumeru characters, and ever since i have been passively saving in case he's in someone's banner. no luck on the standard, too. i was going to pull for kazuha (c0, i don't really care, just want to have the characters i like on my acc) and if there's a possibility of kaveh being there than oh man. oh man

[@IIvoltairII]

I have c2 wanderer, spent 50$ on the current Nahida/xinyuan banner, and I only have c4 faruzan. To make matters worse, 2 of them were standard banner spooks. The 4 star rates are INCREDIBLY frustrating and they have no plans on fixing it.

[@BlazingK9-uv6wx]

I spent 60 wishes on Xianyun's banner and didn't get Faruzan once. And Instead I got Noelle over and over and over even when I got her at C6 I still get Noelle.

[@chile7743]

@@BlazingK9-uv6wx the rates on the 4 stars are not the same ain't no way majority of us get more noeles than other 4 stars and when i don't get her it's a freaking weapon the pain

[@BlazingK9-uv6wx]

@@chile7743 I don't know. I probably just have bad luck.

[@the_real_tabby]

I got C5 Faruzan as f2p

[@Chaos_Cattus]

​@@BlazingK9-uv6wxI had c6 Noelle, after wishing on nahida/XY banner, I had c13 Noelle, one gaming and no faruzan. And considering the amount of people who had the same experience, you cannot convince me there is equal drops of a 4 star character.

[@aibadenshi]

I blame Bennett Xiangling and Xingqiu for the situation we in.

[@Biohacker777]

Yeah their value too high, genshin reluctant to increase the ceiling

[@eastonair]

They should have accepted that Bennett/XQ/XL are the power level for 4-stars and balanced around them instead of being so afraid of making another one.

[@awesomegamer151]

As well as Kuki, Faruzan, Sucrose, Gorou, and Kujou Sara.

[@dream6562]

​@@eastonairno I'm ok with it, I'd rather there be neich teams than rather just use the same 2 characters for every team

[@MonkeBrain07]

​@@awesomegamer151Sara and Faruzan are shit before C6 :v

[@shamsielshahar120]

I don't remember the youtuber's name but he said (paraphrasing) 4 stars aren't as F2P as you think and it's better to pull a 5 star because you'll have a way better experience especially clearing the abyss. That video was quite a while ago but he was right about it. I'm glad that you also covered this.

[@diazpramudita5165]

Kokomi Clan channel touched on this topic several time.

[@crimsonECH1DNA]

@@diazpramudita5165 Both Butterfer0808 and Pseychie_GI went in on that idea too, but in Butterfer's case he took it a step further by going at F2P Hyperbloom teams being overhyped and people got heated over it. lol

[@gehtoodachoppa8603]

@Butterfer0808 did a couple of videos called Stop Recommending National and Stop Recommending Hyperbloom, and then How to Actually 36 Star the Abyss, and he made the same point. Stumbling across those early on was really helpful for me to understand how the gacha actually works and how to focus on real, actual pull value vs. imaginary value that certain units may have only when you reach crazy levels of hyperinvestment in them. Butters made the point that all the "four star only teams" you see discussed so widely actually are hot trash with all C0 units, and you will have a much better time just picking a five star limited character you like, pulling until you get them, and then cobbling together a team around them and putting everything you have into building around that one actually strong unit, vs. chasing magical "F2P hero" comps that are pipe dreams for a new account with all C0 units.

[@raro991]

probably Butterfer0808. He's one of the realest genshin CC out there. This is probably the video ur talking about kzbin.info/www/bejne/fGqVmmpsmdqne9k&ab_channel=Butterfer0808

[@kasuha]

The matter is, as a F2P you can get one 5* in about two months. Exploration can help you get them faster but there's not THAT many exploration primos and you'll run out of them in old areas eventually. So getting your 5* team together takes quite some time and until you're done, you gotta make do with whatever 4*s the game throws your way.

[@wiktorrogala4975]

i had an LAYLA incident once XD took 155 pulls to get C0 Layla... and i managed to get 3 5* before her... wasnt even happy bout that

[@dragonkyuu]

me but opposite somehow, back in the day when gorou came out I really wanted him and eula so I wished on ittos banner..... 80 pulls later no gorou. I got mona, so I hesitantly did one more ten pull to get gorou and got itto.... 8 pity... no gorou. I dont mind itto as much but I ofc didnt manage eula bc of that. funnily enough I had managed to grab redhorn stonethrasher FOR eula and ended up with itto as my only 5* claymore... with his bis as an accident. still dont have eula and I refuse to pull specifically for a 4* bc of that I eventually got gorou in the weapon banner later... was happy but also kinda miffed loll still dont have above c3

[@dragenye1409]

I got Yae C2 while fishing for C6 Fischl... she was already C5 before I started my pulls.

[@Adan.2005]

a* layla incident

[@Duhgel]

Lesson learned: don't wish for 4 stars

[@wiktorrogala4975]

@@Adan.2005 english is my 4th language... don't be a 9 yr old annoying kid i beg.

[@taqresu5865]

A recent example for me was when I used approximately 200 wishes on Raiden's recent rerun. I got 3 Raidens (2 were from back-to-back 50/50 wins), 7 Bennett's, 6 Saras, and... Only 1 Chevreuse. For context, I lost my 50/50 on Furina's banner, and grinded out for those wishes. I got to soft pity twice (in the 70s). Yes, both my Bennett and Sara are now C6, but I didn't get Chevreuse until *after* reaching Pity twice. While yes, this is an incredibly lucky turnout for the other characters, it also highlights how unpredictable 4 star wishing can be.

[@nyyppa7956]

This has been the trend with new, and even new'ish 4 star characters over the last couple of years for me. I think it was around when Sumeru was added or slightly before that when they really skewed the odds of getting the new featured 4 stars for me. For example, on that same Raiden's banner I pulled third constellation for Raiden and then Dehya with 113 wishes but not a single Chevreuse. I got 4 Saras, 7 Bennets, 1 Xinyan, 1 Barbara and 4 weapons. On one of the following banners I really risked it and I spent 76 wishes on the banner. I got zero Yaoyaos, one of the characters I play often but don't have any constellations. I got 5 weapons, 4 Ningguangs and 2 Xinyans instead. I think I had all of the dropped 4 star characters at C6 before pulling on these banners. With the current trend, I don't think I'll ever get C6 Faruzan, Yaoyao, Chevreuse, Kuki, Layla or Kirara, to name a few, while I might already have C100 on some of the old Mondstadt and Liyue characters and at the very least all of them at C6. I might not even be able to ever obtain a single copy of some of the 4 star characters I listed before the servers shut down in probably less than 10 years. (I wish I was exaggerating.) Now that I've leveled up most of my characters to 70, the acquaint fates are also limited to Paimon's stardust exchange, meaning I'll get four or five 4 star characters and four or five 4 star weapons a year from the standard banner. Maybe few more if new regions will have new trees/ponds/etc. to level up. I predict hoyoverse will add a 4 star banner at some point, to "fix" the problem they've created, and squeeze some more money out of the small spenders that are missing some of the 4 star characters that are simply unobtainable in the current system.

[@taqresu5865]

@@nyyppa7956 Oh wow. I feel for you (and all the other players going through the same thing I am). Personally I will keep my eyes peeled for Chevreuse's return. I know it's not recommended to pull for 4 stars, but that's kind of what it takes to get some of them. This time around, I'm skipping Xiao, Miko, Chiori, and Itto in order to pull for Kazuha and Neuvillette. I have a C0 Neuvi, and I don't have Kazuha whatsoever (I'll pull for Kazuha first).

[@nyyppa7956]

@@taqresu5865 Good luck on your pulls!:) For me, I don't even need luck for Chiori, since at worst it's going to take another 14 wishes to reach the theoretical worst luck possible.

[@taqresu5865]

@@nyyppa7956 Thanks, I wish you luck on your pulls as well.

[@PenguinDust1969]

Wishing for 4-stars is riskier than wishing for a 5-star. I have a C2 Furina and a C2 Charlotte. Charlotte was the new 4-star on Furina's banner, and after all of the pulls it took to win three copies of Furina, I only won three copies of Charlotte. Hoyo needs to add an Epitomized Path to the standard banner for 4-stars.

[@Lennis01]

That's really unlucky. I managed to C6 Charlotte (barely) getting two copies of Furina and one of Baizhu. It's the banner I pulled on more than any other to date. You deserve better, because C6 Charlotte is one of the best 4-star supports you can have on a Furina team, especially if Xingqiu is also in it. Fully agree an Epitomized Path is needed at this point.

[@bananasplit566]

Lol i got c6 charlotte before i got furina, got really lucky there

[@brondermody3409]

I did about 145 pulls on Furina banner and didn't get a single Charlotte, I can't even imagine the next time she'll be on a rate up that I would pull on, it's ridiculous :/

[@thenebula160]

i got c2 lyney and never got a lynette. banners are rigged.

[@Babamukuru_]

The 4 star situation is actually atrocious at this point. Started playing like a year ago and wanted Sucrose, and it took a whole year for her to get rated up. Thankfully it was on Navia who I wanted as well. Then I proceeded to get C1 Navia and still ONLY c1 sucrose. Now itll be forever till I see her again

[@joy7367]

yea it really is a completely different situation than in early game.. at the time the 4* roster was way more manageable, so they'd come back way more often (sometimes too often haha, i got c6 noelle who i don't play bc she was on venti's and then zhongli's banner a patch later) you were bound to get most if not all 4* given enough time

[@officialghosty518]

Yeah you make a good point that the issue has really scaled with time, and with the character roster. When I started playing around Venti's 1st rerun, it wasn't hard to pull duplicates of Sucrose. I managed to c6 her on Raiden's first banner (and ended up pulling a 2nd Raiden early, after having pulled her around soft pity, in the process of trying to get sucrose constellations). Around that time I was also complaining about my c15 Xiangling because I just kept pulling duplicates of her. My Xingqiu is c6 as well. But later characters, like Sara and Gorou, were becoming really difficult to get copies of. I think they need to change something in the way 4 stars are managed. Maybe add a 4th to each banner. I dunno.

[@uNs7oPaBL3]

yup for me im a day one player and still am at c2 Sucrose

[@ZanathKariashi]

during the last wanderer banner i got 7 copies of wanderer before getting 7 copies of Faruzan. Warranted, I had really good 5* luck, (210 for C6 Wanderer from none, 212 for C6 Faruzan from none, though only just barely, since the starglitter from the C6 wnaderer funded those last 2 pulls. I was completely tapped out and was gonna rinse all my hangouts to try get more). Assuming they put the same fate system as weapon banner, it would take a maximum of 210 pulls to none to C6 a 4* with completely ass luck and having to hard-pity). But knowing Hoyo, they'd make it take 3-4 fate to get your guaranteed 4*.

[@Lennis01]

I hear you. I'm a five-month-old account, and yet I didn't get my first copy of Sucrose until her most recent banner. You can't appreciate a good four-star if you don't even have her, and right now I can't justify the resources to build her up to include in my active roster, she came to me so late.

[@fairfarren38]

You bring up a good point. I thought I just had bad luck, but if lots of people are experiencing this, then it's a problem. Sucrose C2, Fischl C2, Xingqiu C5, Beidou C2, Bennett C3, Xiangling C1 are my cons on the "F2P-friendly" units after playing for three years. Getting the 5-stars I want has been infinitely easier than getting a single copy of the 4-stars I want.

[@SoulHydron]

Are you sure u just don't play that much? I have c6 for all of those except Xingqiu and I've spent very little on the game (prob around 25$). And those were all by chance over time I never targeted any of them. Tho I may have played a little longer than you I'm surprised you don't have a single c6.

[@fairfarren38]

@@SoulHydron I actually just got C6 Xingqiu right after I posted that! Perhaps you're right and I don't play enough; I do have almost all of the 4-stars, so what I lack in cons, I make up for in roster.

[@SoulHydron]

@@fairfarren38 Oh congratz! You got the one I don't have haha

[@fairfarren38]

@@SoulHydron Thanks! Hope you get it soon.

[@Sparkly935]

I laughed way more than I needed to when you called Baizhu Barbara 😂😂😂😂 14:47

[@Nefty76]

It's working as intended and I don't believe it will be changed. The more money people have to spend the happier they are.

[@buck_X]

Making the game unattractive for new characters is bad for overall sustainability. New players are also unlikely to solve their issues with a bunch of money they aren't sure they want to commit to. You've got to win them over first.

[@Minednam]

@@buck_XGenshin is a casino. They built the open world and story and made it enticing for you to stay and spend money. But they never want to give you what you really want to complete your game. That’s what it’s designed to do. The last thing they want is someone with all the characters they really wanted and then moving on. They want you hoping that next round is yours.

[@buck_X]

@@Minednam Indeed. And Casinos need to feel like you can win. That's why their expected payout is around 95%. They'd make 10x the money per game if it were 50%, but people would stop playing.

[@Minednam]

@@buck_X Casinos don’t need to make “you” feel like you can win. They need to make the people who have that in them feel like they can win. They want the addicts. I play genshin and I have fun seeing what characters I get. I never pay for primogems. I can have fun because I’m not their target audience. If you’re the type that needs a character to feel complete and keeps spending hundreds on primogems then you are the target. Look at their numbers. Look at the comments of people stressed about when a banner will come back. They hit their target. Nothing needs to change that much.

[@SoulHydron]

@@Minednam I would say you are their target audience as probably 99% of players spend very little to none. This is why Genshin is designed as f2p friendly and is a very casual game with very little difficult content. The gacha system however yes is targeting at big spenders if thats what you meant.

[@anshulvankar4216]

Your points are huge facts. When I joined genshin last year, the sucrose "F2P" team was still relevant and recommended for new players. I just got Beidou's C2 this week from the starglitter shop, but my Xingqiu is still c5 and Fischl is C3. Basically I'm still not there yet in terms of reaching the full potential of this supposedly "F2P" team. At the same time, I already have got 5 star characters like Raiden, Nahida, Zhongli, Yelan, Tartaglia, Kazuha, and Wanderer with C6 faruzan. Now why would I ever need to go back to that taser team when I have much better team options. In a nutshell, those f2p team recommendations with only 4 stars actually rarely prove to be practical.

[@lunartpg]

This f2p thing is weird. Ppl play differently. I have c6 furina f2p. Others have 7 c0 5 stars. I can still make an f2p team with a c6 5 star but I only have c1 xiangling, c3 fischl etc. f2p is a dumb metric for team building.

[@diazpramudita5165]

We would never need to go back to that taser team, or any team. At the end of the day, we didn't need to play a game at all 😂. Just do whatever we want to do, use team we want to use. I actually use Sucrose Taser in this abyss first clear, then proceed to play another team after the first clear. It's been a while since the last time I use the taser.

[@NaovanNS]

💀You go back to those teams for gameplay variety or any semblance of it. This may not apply to a lot of players, but for me who grind for 3 years, the abyss is so easy I can probably 36-star it with my eyes closed if I use my premium characters. I always try to clear abyss with F2P teams just to keep things fresh, and it usually does the job just fine unless the devs decide they'll add cringe domains in, like the current one with the three flying bosses.

[@anshulvankar4216]

That makes sense... As for me though, I'm just starting to reach that level of completely building characters. Still don't have even average artifacts for my characters, so instead of trying new teams my current priority is completing 2-3 teams (basically around 10 characters) in order to 36 stars the abyss. In the last two abyss I finally managed to reach 33 stars

[@AKDE83]

@@anshulvankar4216 that's what you should do, vertical investment, get 3 team properly built to garanty 36 stars every abyss then have fun, and also, forget about sucrose tazer, everyone needs high constellations on that team, get neuvillette, furina, any healer at c0 and like fischl (c0 is fine) it's a lot less expenssive than sucrose tazer or national team which are the "f2p" team

[@Rennnix]

4:00 ah yes, because having signature weapons and every character is considered normal for every account

[@JelloImpact]

Just because it’s not normal doesn’t mean I’m a whale haha But sure I get that everyone defines it differently

[@N.biebie8428]

True Whales will have everything in the game maxed out so he have seen stuffs and considered he is not whales there’s a thin line between normal and whales players and he’s just in between the line

[@Infamous_man]

For tier list you should include both c0 and cX where the X is just the most impactful constellation (eg. raiden c2, xiangling c4 etc.).

[@_dah_bocah]

I've seen an account with C6 Xianyun and only C3 Gaming

[@LargeBanana]

Absolute cancer banner system holy shit, 3 years of this bullshit.

[@Lummerbummer115]

I got c6 gaming from 140 pulls: C0 nahida, C0 xianyun, C4 to C7 Noelle, zero to C2 faruzan, and C6 gaming. Didn't even want him, wanted as many faruzans as possible, but now that I have him maxed I have to consider myself lucky and build him... Just don't have the boss mats and talent books yet, and building nahida and xianyun come first, which is another problem. There's not enough resin for how much content there is. Last and only time that was upgraded was... Inazuma?

[@ay.4555]

​​@@Lummerbummer115I am starting believe that the game knows which 4 star we want and intentionally does not give them smh got c2 nahida but only c2 gaming

[@Roxy_Axy]

@@ay.4555 True I feel like it's a hidden system implemented

[@rainevelt]

Reminds me of how Thoma's Eng VA once tried getting C6 Yanfei, but ended up getting C6 Zhongli first

[@MulderHiggins]

im a new player! started in 3.4. My first character I got was Dori. I only have C3 Xiangling from garuntee from the shop, for free, and in lantern rite. I Kazuha in 3.7 and I still don't have Sucrose. I got Yelan in 4.0 and only have Xingqiu from buying him from the shop with star glitter. I didn't have Bennett until he was free in the event. I don't have Rosaria, Chongyun, all these characters that are so called "f2p friendly." all because the four stars are so hard to get. On my account, Yelan, Kazuha, Lyney, and Childe were all more f2p friendly than the four stars I got.

[@AKDE83]

proving the point with facts, different characters but same situation for me

[@essendossev362]

Literally everything you said was SO on point. I'm just at 2 years of playing the game (started at lantern rite in 2022), so I came in a bit later, but I've also been a very dedicated player in that time and have maxed every event in that time, explored every region, collected every achievement possible, and built every teapot gift set for every character I owned, scrounging together every last freemogem available. About half a year into playing, I also started subscribing to welkin moon (around $95 per year) and battlepass (around $135 per year), and every year I buy all the top-ups with their initial bonuses (around $310 per year). I guess I'd say I'm dolphin level, spending around $540 per year on the game (I've got disposable income so I can totally afford this). I'm also a very strategic puller; I've got a masters in math and I use that to take statistical assessments to focus my pulls most efficiently. With all of that, I have been able to get pretty much every character I want, and I'm now starting to invest vertically towards my favourite characters (Raiden, Nahida, Ayaka, Kazuha). I often don't get 5-stars on their first ever banner, waiting instead for rerun banners to pick them up. I've got at least 1 copy of every 4-star to date (except Kirara), and even C6 for over half of them: Sayu, Xiangling, Xingqiu, Sucrose, Fischl, Kaeya, Heizou, Yanfei, Diona, Faruzan, Bennett (not activated past C5 tho), Barbara (who is actually amazing at C6 tyvm), Noelle, Rosaria, Kujou Sara, Collei, Razor, Xinyan, Beidou. And several more are almost there, at C5: Layla, Ningguang, Lisa, Yaoyao, Yun Jin. I use the starglitter shop to slowly pick up characters, but at this point it'll only be Lisa left - I'm gonna wait on getting my last Ningguang constellation from regular pulls, since she's sometimes on banners and I'm not in a particular hurry to complete her, and Beidou I am just not interested in building at all. I feel incredibly grateful that I snagged C6 Faruzan from her first banner with Wanderer, but that only happened because I was starting at fairly low pity on that banner (33), I LOST my 50-50 after another 44 pulls (so 77 wishes in), and then spent a whole 'nother 79 wishes working back up to getting my guaranteed Wanderer, and THEN also took a bit of a gamble and did another 48 wishes just to try to collect my last couple of copies of her (I didn't particularly want C1 Wanderer, but I also wouldn't have been mad for it either). So that's 204 wishes spent securing C6 Faruzan. And I KNOW I'm still on the luckier side of that, it could have easily taken me more. I've been trying to collect C6 Yun Jin and C6 Gorou to play a Noelle driven geo team (just for funzies). I have absolutely zero interest in Itto tho. No, not even zero, fully NEGATIVE interest in him. I'd consider it a loss to pick up a copy of him, even just for 10 pulls, even just for a single pull. I strongly dislike the character, that he's a grown man who bullies children, and I just can't get past that. So I've had to acquire all of my Gorou copies off-banner, because he ONLY ever runs with Itto, and I hate it. I'm at C4 Gorou at this point, and C5 Yun Jin, and likely will spend my lantern rite free 4-star on acquiring her final copy, but there's nothing I can do for the Gorou situation besides wait to get his last couple of copies likely from off-banner pulls still. Sure they gave us hope in including Faruzan not tied to Wanderer, but I don't know if they're gonna do the same thing with other characters, like Gorou. For Sucrose, although I have gotten her C6 now, it took me FOREVER, and was only just a very recent thing. I had acquired C2 Kazuha already before I got my final C6 copy of Sucrose! Heck, I also had a C0 Venti, Wanderer, Xiao, and Jean already before I got C6 Sucrose, so although most of them aren't 1-to-1 replacements for Sucrose, I had no shortage of anemo 5-star options to build teams with. For Kuki, I only very recently managed to pick up my VERY FIRST copy of her. I've been playing since the day she was released, and only just got a single copy of her. Her first banner was with Itto (you already know how I feel about him), her second was with Cyno and Venti (I had no interest in Cyno only because his gameplay is too slow for me, and Venti I already had C0 by that point and didn't care for building him vertically), her third was Nahida and Nilou (and trust me, I PULLED on that Nahida banner, every drop, 151 pulls that I could get together for it, and not a SINGLE Kuki in all that time), and most recently on the banners with Ayato and Cyno again (I already have a C0 Ayato and don't care for any more, and you already know how I feel about Cyno). The only copy I've gotten from her came from off-banner! And yeah, I have C2 Raiden already. I'm probably gonna have C3 Raiden before I even manage to get a C1 Kuki at this rate. Thoma, I desperately want this sweet house-husband for a burgeon team with Ayato. Only got his C0 so far. Similar to Kuki, he's only ever running on banners with 5-stars I either already have (Venti), don't want (Klee, Eula, Tartaglia, Yae), or don't want just yet because I'm prioritizing other banners around that time (Neuvillette over Wriothesley). The only copy I picked up of him so far was when he ran with Kazuha's first rerun banner back in 2.8 (sadly this is before I started keeping exact stats about my pulls, but I'm pretty sure I spent close to 80 or 90 wishes on that banner). I think the only way to collect characters for now is to keep your tastes broad, and pull a little bit on any banner where you have any interest in the 5-star and any of the 4-stars, so you have the most opportunity to collect characters. And to take advantage of 'dreams' to strategically plan to either save or spend on current banners. And in that case, it'll take forever to actually build up to C6 for many 4-stars. Except for those few times you might get lucky, with just copy after copy of a certain character. But yeah, I agree, I think at this point 5-stars who work at C0 are far more F2P friendly, and even dolphin-friendly. And I think some of your suggestions were so good. Yes, there should be some sort of epitomized path towards 4-stars on banners. For direct comparison: 204 wishes got me C6 Faruzan, but 151 pulls didn't get me even a single copy of Kuki. The variability on that is just too huge. The starglitter shop is also another excellent suggestion. But with all of that said, I think that the banners are working EXACTLY as intended. Hoyo wants to drain us for every dime we're worth. They didn't give us a free single copy of Faruzan out of the goodness of their hearts; they did it to get us hooked on her, so we'd get suckered into the sunken cost fallacy and work towards her C6 because hey, we already have C0 of her now, may as well. And that variability on 4-stars, that's also exactly as intended. Ppl work harder for things that are less predictable. I think they will continue to get away with whatever they can until the laws catch up with them and start to regulate some of their gatcha behaviour.

[@tactician3023]

Disposable income …bruh just say your addicted

[@ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh6802]

Man chill

[@randomperson1weekago295]

Nice to read but so many words lmao.

[@stUwUpified]

Give this man a Pulitzer

[@ahmdmoadi]

how did he not like your comment 😭

[@rainbowsmile428]

As a Kaveh main I'm in PAIN lol

[@n3ro81]

I'm sure I'm not the only who thought of this, but a minor "fix" I would love to see from mihoyo is that the featured 4 stars that are on the limited banners should be the ONLY 4 star characters that you can get if you pull on said banners.

[@Nowaylarry]

That would only be good if you want them though. Think about the next upcoming banner for example. Someone who wanted Xiao or Yae would end up with so much garbage. Also, while I have gotten my fair share of trash like the bell or eye of perception as off banner pulls I have also gotten a fair number of useful 4* weapons like Fav. Being able to (optionally) set a path for 4* characters would be a more reasonable middle ground.

[@arteneri617]

disagree

[@dglynch222]

Poor Chevreuse got left at the bottom with all the five-stars when you were counting the new four-stars. 😂

[@sachab6098]

Came here to say that 😂

[@SupaRush]

I just c6'd my Faruzan super happy.. She's amazing and her english Voice Actress i'd argue is up there with Yae Miko, Yelan and Furina.

[@ileanagheorghisor]

Madam Faruzan* I'm joking, I love her too

[@elkren24]

Thanks a lot for this video which is quite enlightning. I now understand why Bennett or Xiangxiu are mentioned so often as best support, because it was time enough to max them out. I think there is also another issue: when Collei last time appeared, I got her 8x in a row. Even considering this is a Gacha game this seems a little bit unfair. You are right every 30 wishes we should get a choice for one of the 4* on the banner. But the main topic is increasing every patch: the more characters are in the game the less you get them (= the more wishes you need). But isn`t this strategy of evry long time gacha game?

[@vitor900000]

I really wished they updated the starglitter shop and added all 4 stars to the rotations. It would also be great if they increased the stock from 1 to 2~3 per rotation.

[@cecilecrozatier7979]

Well, that does not really solve the problem as getting star glitters need wishing enough to get a 5 star, that’s nearly all the primos you get in a decent patch. There is not enough primogems per patch for you to accumulate enough star glitters for even getting 1 4star every reset… for low spenders, I mean

[@vitor900000]

@@cecilecrozatier7979 Its not perfect but is a start. Maybe they could also reduce the price... And if they add more stocks make that with each purchase it becomes more expensive. E.g 15 -> 30 -> 60 And even if they don't change the price, I'm a week 1 f2p and I'm sitting at 700+ Starglitter and ~63k primos so its possible as long as you only target a few characters. You are not supposed to be able to get and max everything fast for free anyway else people will not have a reason to spend.

[@Lennis01]

They recently increased the stock to two, but it really needs to be three with an expanded roster.

[@vitor900000]

@@Lennis01 They did? Didn't even notice since most characters availed there I already have C6 and the ones I don't have C6 aren't worth anyway.

[@Adan.2005]

​@@Lennis01recently? It's always been 2 characters

[@NonMeta_]

I got 2 Yoimiyas, 2 Raiden, Mona, and Jean before getting C6 Chevreuse in 240 pulls.

[@johnthegametologist]

Dang... that's is worse. 4 5 star units to complete c6 4 star. What happen to otaku save the world? I guess investor pocket is more worth then playerbase nowadays..

[@drekhunter]

You got 6 5* units in 240 pulls and considering how diluted the rate up is that's actually lucky for Chev, I'm impressed that you somehow found something to complain about in this situation.

[@polychromaa]

Not owning a 4 star to getting c6 takes ~238 pulls so your 4 star luck was actually about average. Getting 6 five stars in 240 pulls is insane though. Not sure why you’re complaining

[@adeshbrar2698]

I got 4 chevreuse copies in 26 pulls. I only wanted her as well cause my raiden already C2. So much rng 😂

[@Adan.2005]

Bad luck with the 4*, but if i had that luck with 5* a wouldn't care about 4* tbh 😂😂😂

[@quadowwadow1456]

You know what would help this issue? Having other content that you can do to get a currency or whatever to buy character copies. I haven't played many gacha games but of the few I have played, pretty much all of them do this. Honkai Impact 3rd has this. It's not for every character but there are quite a few ways to get character fragments. I haven't played HI3 in like 6 months so I don't remember all of the ways but nonetheless, with a significantly smaller cast of characters, and another Hoyo game to boot, does this. Blue Archive has stages that can occasionally drop character fragments. They have a currency you can spend to buy fragments for characters you own and they'll give you this currency through events or whatever, AND you get this currency every time you pull for a character and the amount you get depends on their rarity. They've even got other currency gained through content that rotates weekly for other characters that aren't in the gacha pool. (they also gave 100+ free pulls for their second anniversary)

[@KratosAurionPlays]

Funny thing is I've gone from C0 amber to C2 amber in the past couple months. RNG is such a wacky thing even as the odds keep getting worse. I also went from having no kirara to suddenly C2 Kirara all in the same day despite her not being on the banner. I pulled one off standard, one off weapon banner, and one as an off banner character on limited.

[@tylerandrew4730]

that talk about candace hurts me so much because i got both Ayaka and Navia before getting a single Candace

[@RyuuAF]

I got navia before a rosaria constellation. I first got rosaria when she first came out, and still to this day she is only c1 since the game won't give me her. On navia banner I got navia, several sucroses and candaces but not a single rosaria lol

[@R.o.z.a.x.a]

2,5 years into the game. No jean, diluc and dehya. Got sucrose and chongyun after 2 years. No kuki shinobu too, even though I wanted her (got Raiden instead, because she was guaranteed). Man, this video is so relatable and true

[@tigerxxd]

are u complaining abt having no diluc and dehya??

[@juantoda1874]

​@@tigerxxdhe is suffering from success

[@R.o.z.a.x.a]

@@tigerxxd yes. I am in endgame. I don't really have much to do in the game other than building characters. I have build every single one I own to level 71 (70-80 ascension gives last free standard pull) and I'm getting them all to friendship lv 10 by playing them, testing different teams and what I like. So yes, I would like to at least get them so I could build them and test them. Also I main Xinyan, even tho I know she's not great. I have other dps that I build and I clear abyss with. But I like Dehya as character and I wanted her. Lost 50/50 on her banner when she got one limited.

[@AKDE83]

@@tigerxxd i am too wtf you mean ?

[@amandaslough125]

​@@tigerxxdThey'd more fun to play than a lot of meta units.

[@mkl_dvd]

This is a big issue and I'm glad that you're bringing attention to it. I've been playing since 2020, so I have most 4-stars at C6 (except the newer ones, but I rarely build them). One correction I want to make is that the ratio of on-banner characters/weapons you get is 2/3, not 1/2. So the chance of getting a specific, on-banner 4-star character are 2/9 (not 1/6) and the chance of getting a specific, on-banner 4-star weapon is 1/7 (not 1/10). It's still terrible odds, though.

[@corpiew]

I’m a Faruzan main. It’s been more than a year, three rateup banners and an event where they gave a copy for free, I JUST got her C4 in Xianyun’s banner and I had to go dangerously close to soft pity for it. Every banner combined I spent for sure over 200 pulls AND I came out of the first Wanderer banner with his C1 as I was searching for her C2. It’s actually insane!

[@sonic55193]

Things they can do. Besides Epitomized path for 4 stars and Adding it in the shop All nation celebration should have a 4 star selector just like Liyue. If they want the Gacha route they can add more multiple 4 stars in a banner, let's say there's eight 4 stars in a banner and we can choose 3 for higher rates on those eight available.

[@velicaleon]

As a relatively newer player, I think it's a lot more about the standards and performance expectations veteran players have by this point when it comes to "free-to-play friendly" For example, you mentioned Charlotte "pretty much needs her c4" but mine is c0 and I still 36-starred the Abyss with her and having a lot of fun! Like yes the ER requirement is pretty high, but I compensated by building more ER on my entire team - perhaps not ideal, but it gets the job done for me! Naturally, there are characters like Kujosaur (hehe) and Faruzan, but these I think are still more the exception than the norm Going back to the first paragraph, I feel like there is this desire to have 4-stars that are able to go toe-to-toe with 5-stars, perhaps due to the "Genshin is a F2P game" thing people often tout, but personally I don't think that's really the point anymore - at least, not really for newer players, who I would say F2P-friendly content is the original target for After all, is a 4 c6 4-star comp necessarily more F2P-friendly than a c0 Raiden and, say, c0-2 for the rest of the National core? If we take these things into factor, it makes me feel that rather than "F2P-friendliness" that type of content is nowadays more for those who... seek a challenge or prove a point, rather, in which case these concerns DO make a lot more sense, because there is a need there for these characters to go above and beyond by their own merits, rather than being a complementary (if still VERY helpful/valuable) factor to enable the 5-star you like (or, indeed, to be enabled by it).

[@velicaleon]

On another note, though, I do agree that with the current roster they should make it easier to at least get the c0 of any given specific 4-star character, perhaps by introducing a 3rd (or even 4th) option in the monthly Starglitter Shop, or triple banners, something like that

[@purp1e200]

In the beggining, when Genshin was new, there weren't a lot of 4 star characters so people can easily get C6 Xingqiu, Fischl, Xiangling etc. Now it is not the case unfortunately. Making a 5 star only team is less costy then a C6 4 star only team.

[@amandaslough125]

It doesn't help that CC always compare 4* at c6 to 5* units.

[@Adan.2005]

​@@amandaslough125yeah, beacouse you're guaranteed to get a 5* at 180 pulls, but you're not guaranteed to get a C6 4* with 180 and I've seen worse things happen.

[@octo448]

This is one of those topics that really shows a player's age in the game. I started at patch 1.3 and at that time, I already felt "behind". I had missed a free Fischl, I had missed Lantern Right Year 1, I'd missed Festering Desire, etc. I felt like it was going to take such a long time for me to 'catch up' to other players. And I was both LUCKY and not free to play! My Free beginner pulls included a Xingqiu, Noelle (guaranteed), Beidou, and Keqing. At the time, all four were invaluable in my ability to play and level. My first real pulling experience was on 1.6, to get Kazuha. I was spending on Welkin and BP unlocks, so a relatively low spend, but certainly not F2P. These days, I spend around the same amount. (Got gifted a couple top ups, but overall top up value is under $100) Welkin fell off when HSR came out, since I was only willing to pay for one at a time. I only pay for BP if I played enough to fully unlock it, and I don't unlock until I hit max level. So low spend, but still plenty of resources coming in. I'm a saver, so if I'm not the fence or am not SURE I can utilize a character (5* only, I don't wish for 4*s) I save for the next match. I now have C6 of most of the 4 star characters that came out prior to Sumeru- Xingqiu, Beidou, Rosaria, Yanfei, Bennett, Xiangling, Chongyun, Thoma, Diona, Sucrose, Noelle, Gorou, Ningguang, Xinyan, etc. However, even among these, there are holdouts. I'm c0 Razor by some strange twist of fate. I'm still under C6 in all three starter characters- Lisa, Amber, Kaeya. Kuki is still C0, Barbra is still C3, etc. It really is a matter of luck and working with what you have- and that's so much harder when what you have might not suit where you are in the game. Getting "lucky" with Keqing when I was in Mondstat didn't hurt so bad. Getting "lucky" with Dehya, whom you wouldn't be able to use until you got to Sumeru and could gather her materials, would be so much more useless. It's a different game now, and I recognize that. My only caveat is that newer players also shouldn't really need as much firepower when they're just starting out. For that reason, I'd say just stick it out and keep playing. Save instead of spending whenever you can justify it, and only spend when you know for sure it's both someone you want AND someone you can use. Ultimately, the game is only getting harder to start. They'll have to address that soon or face the reality that new player experience is a ticking clock waiting to ring on them.

[@SoulHydron]

Yeah I agree that things have always been like this and it's fine. But the problem of it growing as more char added can be bad so hopefully Hoyo is looking to do something about it

[@strawburrymstakes]

Good video! Will definitely checkout the tier list video you mentioned at the end. Somewhat unrelated anecdote to the video when you mentioned Sucrose: I've heard the stories about Sucrose (great character, kinda "clunky" kit, good with most teams, etc). When I got into the game and Navia was the banner 5star, I really wanted her. I did get Navia...a C1 Navia. Wanna know what I got within the banner timeframe? Sucrose. C6. Don't know if I did something wrong or right, lol. 😅

[@kazuu_44]

tbh, I think a tierlist going into each level of constellation for four stars would be best. I know it’s a lot more work so it may take time, but it’s more realistic and helpful since everyone is bound to have different constellation levels

[@aspirerl4807]

Idk how many times its been mentioned, but i would absolutely fill out a form with start time and 4 star constellations to collect that kind of data, so I'd highly recommend it

[@joy7367]

agreed!

[@sfoanna]

I was so tempted to pull on that Ayato/Cyno banner because I don’t have Kuki and at the time I only had one copy of Xiangling. I didn’t, though, and thanks to Starglitter and Latern Rite I now have C2 Xiangling (still no Kuki). I’ll continue to ration my Starglitter until I either get lucky or get her C4 in almost a year. 😂 Characters I’ve gotten to C6 happened thanks to losing 50/50s and a bunch of copies of Xingqiu coming in from his rate up banner and the standard banner while I was chasing a single copy of Fischl (now at C1).

[@cherrypie9566]

Dude I just watched two of your videos and I'm subscribing cause your takes are so real.

[@apricotoatmeal]

I somehow got super lucky...in my recent pulls for C2 Nahida, I scrounged up C6 Gaming and a C6 Faruzan (of who I previously didn't have at all), and I didn't see a Noelle ONCE. Meanwhile, my friend only pulled Noelle's and one copy of Faruzan during their Xianyun (which they got at hard pity). Crazy the difference in variety of luck on banners.

[@Fdhndkd]

Same I got c6 faruzan and c6 gaming while pulling for c0 xianyun

[@apricotoatmeal]

@@Fdhndkd Oooo, nice!

[@fishfox]

Noelle KEPT on coming when i pulled! No Gaming and only 2 Faruzan (which was enough for mine to c6)

[@legendramon]

I pulled 1 xianyun and 1 Nahida. And I did not get a single faruzan nor gaming. Just lots of Noelle (likely already c20+)

[@xShikari]

Who would have thought gambling is based on luck. Incredible deduction.

[@reddevilsunited_2060]

After hearing the first few lines I do feel kinda lucky that I have C6 Xiangling, C5(have C6 but not unlocked it yet) Bennet and C6 Xingqou.

[@kwayke9]

I think I got like 3 Xiangling cons from standard pulls or something? For Benny, I pulled on a bunch of Benny banners so he's c6 now. Xingqiu's still c5 tho, and he's my fav out of the 3 (thank Zhongli lantern rite exists) Meanwhile, the only reason I even have Chongyun is the 3.4 lantern rite and I haven't pulled a Rosaria since 2.6 (yes, she's c0)

[@TonyeBright]

I didn’t get Bennett at all😭😭😭

[@Camelia437]

Me too, but I don't even have a single copy of Kuki. In 3.6 she was on the Nahida banners but I got Nahida and no Kuki. She gets a replay with Ayato and Cyno, I don't like their gameplay so I just didn't want to pull for them (I was guaranteed). I use Raiden for hyperbloom.

[@casualsimer]

​ @Camelia437 On that banner I got 2 Nahidas and C4 Kuki and C4 Layla I think :) I got really lucky there . But I still do not have another good team for the Abys , I just have one with these 3 and Xingqou . I jus got C0 Raiden hope I can do something with her now

[@Camelia437]

@@casualsimer I have: - Ayaka freeze - Childe international - Raiden hyperbloom - Raiden double hydro with Furina, Yelan and now Cloud Retainer I have 2 others teams but I don't find them enough for floor 12: - Keqing aggravate - Yoimiya double hydro with Zhongli (sidegrade of hyperbloom in single target but worse in AOE)

[@Elrog3]

Great video. Apart from my minor disagreement on the starglitter shop being worth it, everything is spot on. And its good to hear someone say it. I counted a few weeks ago. My account has more limited 5 stars (and a few have cons) than c4+ four stars.

[@Nowaylarry]

I'd say the shop is only worth it for c0 Fischl, c0 Xingqui, and c0 or c1 Bennett. Fischl is the least constellation reliant of the shop characters. XQ's primary purpose (application) is good enough at c0 (at least to be worth 7 pity). The same more or less applies to Bennett.

[@Elrog3]

@@Nowaylarry Look at how many primogems they will net you in compared to the primogems of those pulls. Its a loss. The abyss doesn't give enough primogems for the small increase in abyss performance to counteract the wasted pulls.

[@Nowaylarry]

This is kind of a silly argument since abyss primos are not a one time thing. The abyss resets every two weeks. Regardless those three characters are key parts of an absurdly large number of teams. If you don't have a single copy of them it is worth far more than seven pulls worth of starglitter for each of them. Especially when you have no other way to guarantee them.@@Elrog3

[@user-yz8lr6ls4e]

Fun fact, one of the biggest german Genshin youtubers and whales needed more than a year to get the sacraficial sword. That was one of the biggest meemes in the german community.

[@thewoomy2707]

As a f2p who started for about a month ago, I mainly use c0 sucrose c0 bennett c1 xiangling and will pick c0 xingqiu from selector. I got lucky from standard banner to even have sucrose and bennett. It doesn’t really look like I will get constellations for a couple months as I am saving for 5 stars rather than 4 stars.

[@giuba98]

Yeah that is also something that people don't think about, players that only started a few months ago don't have many 4*s and constellations, but people assume they do at least have one copy of the oldest ones

[@elegantegotist]

I cleared Abyss for the first time with a C3 Xiangling on International, and a C0 Kuki on hyperbloom. Some 4* don't actually need that much. Xingqiu does not need C6.

[@Jonathan-gk8jq]

My friend started playing the game because he loved Kaveh's design and got 2 of him off standard in his first week.

[@equinoxflowersofcenturysen5881]

I'm jealous

[@Lennis01]

Nice, but I hope he is planning to build a bloom team. Kaveh's kit isn't useful for much else.

[@Jonathan-gk8jq]

@@Lennis01 Yeah he's going for Nilou but Kaveh's burst increases hyperbloom and burgeon dmg too so idk, maybe he can make that work lol

[@Lennis01]

@@Jonathan-gk8jq Nilou is on my wish list. I've heard that Kaveh's kit can work at cross purposes with other key members of a bloom team, but I'm not 100% sure. You might want to check out a dedicated guide to know all of the pros and cons. My own Kaveh isn't built yet.

[@MCHR92]

I'm a day 1 player with the 3 starters at c6 and more than half of them at c6, my oldest non c6 is Yanfei, this was through a very methodical approach to my wishing like you mentioned, tactics like just giving 20 wishes for a 4 star that I know beforehand from leaks were they will show and anticipate, but even then, is too much rng. Sometimes I got c6 Mika before Shenhe C0, others i got to hard pity guaranteed an only got c0 on a new 4 star. I mostly now treat them as a long time project, I still level them up to the same point as the rest, but yeah something needs to be done, 4 stars are important to a lot of teams, unlike most other gacha games were they are just a transition.

[@Name.she-her-hers]

I got a raiden over a year ago to make sure I had a hyperbloom trigger. I STILL do not have a kuki...

[@dragojess]

I felt this so much when I was pulling for Chevreuse, I ended up with 5 Bennetts, a Sara, and a Diluc before I got 1 copy of Chevreuse

[@ik5759]

I wanted bennet cons I only got 1 but I got c4 cheuvreuse and c6 sara. I only wanted bennet cons because he is c2. Hoyoverse knows what we want and doesnt give away

[@vainillasilvestre]

​@@ik5759 Help yes I swear getting bennett is horrible I only have the one they gave for free in an event On 4.0 i got c4 barbara an c1 lynette and on the last one c3 sara, c2 chevreuse AND A YOIMIYA LIKE WHY IS BENNETT AVOIDING ME

[@mr.a5252]

they could also add billets at the starglitter exchange since theyre extremely rare to get and u def want more refinements for good f2p weapons

[@moonmilkgalaxy]

Yeppp 😅 when i started Genshin I quickly had C12 Sayu, Doro, and Bennett which thank you Bennett but you can stop now! Majority of my 4 stars have been gradual constellations over time and the ones who wouldnt leave me alone i already mentioned haha Ive bought Fischl, Xiangling, and Xingqui from the shop before which is how i was able to get Fischl to c6 combined with a banner. Literally got Xiangling to c4 last month. Xingqui is also c4. Beidou, Fischl, Layla, Kuki, Sayu, Dori, Bennett, Heizou, Rosaria, Sucrose (literally on her last banner she finally came because she was c0 for so long) Noelle (freaking Noelle is why Faruzan is c2 -.- just got Noelle to c6 this banner) Candace (random c6 i got during this banner) Charlotte (apparently wanted me to main her as soon as she dropped) I actually have alot more than I thought but have several sitting around c3 to c5 like ive had Sara at c4 forever and got c5 last banner. Ive played for a year and a half for context. My second account has significantly less 4 star constellations though. To prove your point though I only have c2 Barbara and yet i have c3 Mona and Qiqi 😅 Don't have Chevrouse or Kirara. I'm not f2p so maybe im not even the right person to comment

[@kingclarke8866]

Might seem like a random Question but where did you get the Figures in the cases bahindyou?

[@juggernaut6666]

my 3 favorite 4 stars are candace, heizou, and kirara I don't have a single one higher than c2 and no kirara. even though I've used over 120 wishes across kiraras banners. but I have c6 faruzan who I hate and will probably never use unless I get c6 heizou. They should just add a new slot to the star glitter shop for every major region after the region is finished.

[@joy7367]

makes me feel better about still not having pulled for her haha... ever since he release i've wanted her but she's never been on a 5* i wanted... i didn't want cyno/ayato AT ALL but it was so sad to let kirara/xl cons/shinobu pass me by...

[@tryingmybest1888]

Yeah it’s pretty rough, I got my first copy of Xingqiu from lantern right at AR 55 literally yesterday. Starting Genshin later on really hurts in the 4 star department

[@ronaldstanford1725]

I'm glad u used Xingqiu as an example because I'm suffering that very thing because I've only ever gotten one copy of him since I've been playing

[@magiclover9346]

Preach Jello. Took me a year to c6 Gorou after Ittos release, year to c6 Sara, Year to c6 Faruzan. All these are good to very good supports at c6 and worthless until c4. I'm a 1.0 day one player and it's very evident. All the four stars that where released between 1.0-2.0 are c6. After that I have gaping constellation holes. Some Inazuma characters are still c1 and most of my Sumeru 4 stars are below c2 making them all useless (except for Yao Yao who is the only one that's complete at c0). I've also been a BP/Welkin player since day one and paid for occasional top up.

[@salceds]

Gorou's already good for Itto at C0, Sara's ideally should be C2, Faruzan needs 300 ER regardless but it's more justified at C2.

[@magiclover9346]

@@salceds I found all of those characters to be very underwhelming at low constellations. So much that I didn't use them at all

[@ZanathKariashi]

@@magiclover9346 the only thing Gorou gets from Cons is +40% Geo crit dmg with 3+ Geos, and his skill/burst aura heals. 90% of his power is at C0 with A4. His gear matters more than his Cons do.

[@magiclover9346]

@@ZanathKariashi 40% crit on on your GEO units is huge. You can be farming the husk domain for months before you get a single 40 cv piece. Having to do that for your Albedo and (soon to be Chiori) and Itto is a lot of time. I did farm that domain for months and still don't have 40 cv pieces. Gorous c6 make the mono Geo team push out the same kind of damage a Hu Tao vape team can at the same level of artifact investment. I didn't even bother with him opting for the raw attk of Bennet. 40% crit dmg is also almost half of what the Redhorn gives to your carry (Itto/Noelle).

[@phoenixlau]

I don't think Mihoyo views it as a problem, because: a) The power level aspect of higher cons doesn't matter as much in casual play. I was previously rocking C0 Freminet in overworld friendship team, currently C0 Gaming and C0 Chevreuse. They do absolutely dogsh damage of course, but they are still fun to build and play. b) The meta POV of "maybe I should pull 5 star instead, at least that's easier to guarantee" sounds absolutely aces to Mihoyo.

[@Zionpwns88]

I started playing back in 3.5. You brought up Xingqiu early in this video and I feel that. I may have wished and gotten Ayaka and Shenhe, but at the time I didn't know if Xingqiu was actually any good because I was totally new to the game, and he was in the shop at the time. I didn't get even C0 Xingqiu until September..... FROM THE SHOP. So I'm getting C1 from the selector this time, and C2 from the March shop. I basically had 0 off-field hydro until I pulled Yelan and snagged Xingqiu. It was a tough run in some situations because of that.

[@user-yf3us9xu2v]

What they need to do is similar to artifact strong boxes for 4 stars. They should allow you to, if you rolled on a placeholder, to select from characters from a year ago, with the newer characters being a roll on chance.

[@timtom9198]

I got lucky to get 2 copies of raiden, C6 Chevreuse, C1 Bennett and no Sara’s in 90 pulls. I don’t know if it helps with your data collection but thanks for making these vids! It’s nice to hear acknowledgement of the growing rarity of 4 stars addressed ❤

[@rayla2262]

same, I got 2 raidens in like 90 pulls with only c1 sara but c6 chevreuse lol waiting for kujou sara rerun more than raiden but just hoping i'll hit c3 raiden and c6 sara at same time..

[@timtom9198]

@@rayla2262 Ooh, good luck with your Raiden and Sara pulls, honestly I’m just chilling with my C2 Raiden, the extra Chevreuse was a nice bonus!

[@marythiccmas]

my personal hot take whenever this comes up: 4 stars have ALWAYS been like this. Veteran players have simply forgotten what it's like to not have C4 Xiangling or C6 Xingqiu or C6 Fischl. The problem isn't getting worse, we're just more cognizant of it every time a new 4 star releases because we haven't had multiple banners with them yet.

[@JelloImpact]

It’s way worse because there were way less 4 stars then, so they reran more often

[@alexanderericson8628]

The truth is to be a f2p you had to play at release and do almost all events all the time. To jump into Genshin, makes you not just miss the events that has been, but the odds of getting what you want, just vanishes.

[@wingofshu]

Outside of the fishle voice actor problem all the 4 stars should have been basically equally rotated with maby minor gaps or pefered 5 stars

[@71775926]

I don't know how you even reach the conclusion of the problem not getting worse when the number of rate-up 4-stars per banner has stayed the same since launch, the roster on the starglitter shop has stayed the same since launch, the number of days the banners are available has stayed the same since launch, but the cast of 4-star character has been constantly increasing.

[@alexanderericson8628]

@@71775926 he is saying that Bennett at c0 was crap at the beginning of the game, we just forgotten, NOONE thought Bennett would be good, I think we praised Barbara in the beginning LMAO, good times. Oh and who can forget the crescent pike Xiangling guide, good times man

[@CRANEREVIEWS]

Wow as a newer (albeit welkin) player this makes me feel blessed. Started on 3.5 rerolling Ayaka - not only did I end up with Kokomi and Kazuha, skipping Shenhe for Nahida, I got: Faruzan C6 (rolling for Kokomi and Wanderer C1), Kuki C6 (one on standard and the last C6 copy came on weapon banner as I rolled for Navia and Ayaka), Bennett C6, Layla C6 (1 from event, 2 from standard banner), Rosaria C6 (got super lucky as my first standard banner 4 star so I had Ayaka, Barbara, Sucrose and Rosaria at AR15), Xiangling C4. I only really miss a 2nd Geo for Navia - got GMC and Ning C0 (again from standard) - didn't get her for lantern rite as I have high copium on Chiori. XQ and Fischl I both got for starglitter and they sit at C0.

[@EE7A]

i originally started playing right around 1.6 or so, but i took a break when star rail came out... 😅 my kid got me back into genshin though, and for fun, i figured id start a new account that is strictly f2p. i am very much noticing essentially everything you have covered here. the game isnt really "hard" per-se, and it def helps that i already know what im doing, but i currently have a c3 noelle from trying to get nahida... and thats it. the rest is just a bunch of randomness all at c0. the game doesnt give enough starglitter for sure, which i never really noticed previously until i am no longer giving them money on this account. i grabbed xingqiu from lantern rite, so that helps, but... 😬 im just gonna pull on whatever and use whatever i get i guess. trying to actually plan out a solid team with intent is kinda out the window at this stage of the game. like someone else mentioned, im sure this is all working as designed. im thankful i still have my other account so i can get some field time with eula whenever i feel like i need more eula in my life, but anyone actually starting now for real is going to have it kinda rough without dropping some cash.

[@avanaxa]

Thank you for addressing this. I ended up spending 60 wishes to get Kuki because I couldn't make a functional hyperbloom team with what I had at the time. Been playing as a bp/welkin player for 6 months and missing all of the key 4 star cons you talked about.

[@Shane_A_M]

Big mood. I spent 40 wishes to snag a single Kuki on this last rerun. Only god knows when I’ll get her C2.

[@dalwilliams89]

I totally understand what you mean. I was pulling on the Yoimiya banner to get Chevreuse because Yoimiya is my favorite character, and I ended up c6 both Bennett and Kujou Sara while getting a Yoimiya. After all that I still didn't get a Chevreuse. But at least my Yoimiya is now c3.

[@SoulHydron]

Bennet is better for yoimiya than chev generally so you're not necessarily unlucky

[@vincentcircharo8259]

that was me with kuki a while ago. c6 layla and fucking dori, 1 single kuki

[@8rosesofthemoon8]

​@@SoulHydronIt's not even about who is better with who though. It's about liking a character or not. Xingqiu, Bennet, Xiangling and Fischl are good, but, not everyone pulls for team composition

[@toxihobbies]

good thing u are partner with them, for sure at least they hear you

[@joeyl.3007]

I got very lucky that I started the game during the Hu Tao/Yelan banner last year and between my Yelan pulls and some random luck, had a C6 XQ pretty much from the start. In this year of playing, I also got Collei to C6, I think she was on some banners I was pulling a lot on or something. Those are the only two characters I've C6'd, and I am NOT F2P. I've bought all the Welkins I could and most of the BPs in that time.. Hell, I don't even quite have all the 4 stars yet. I'm still missing Gorou. And the only reason I'm this close is because I've tried to make sure I at least did a little pity-building for every new 4 star's release. Most of my 4 stars are c1-c3, the ones closer to C6 are usually ones I don't even want to play, while ones I DO want to play are benched because they REALLY need the higher Cs, or I just deal with them not doing any damage. I got both Raiden and Yoimya and ended up with a C2 Chevreuse btw. So to me, it's absolutely crazy to assume a F2P has a specific 4 star at C6. It's definitely possible, especially as you play longer, you'll surely get someone there, but is it who you want? And it's only going to get harder the more they add. I think for the purposes of F2P assessment, C1-2 might be a reasonable baseline. One from launch, one from shop/event freebie, and one more as a goal for their rerun.

[@user-pf1kk7zc2n]

a lantern rite like event would be nice so once a year we can choose a 4 star from each of the nations

[@RoselynTate]

I'm struggling with this so much right now because I was really hoping that while pulling for Kazuha I would get some constellations for my Xingqiu, who is C2. And I'm very glad now that I did buy his C2 with starglitter when he was in the shop in March, because I got Kazuha at early pity, and for 4s only pulled 3 Barbara's, a Yanfei, and an Eye of Perception. So now I'm debating whether I try pulling for Neuvilette, who I don't even really know if I want or would use because I find him kind of difficult to play, just to get more constellations of Xingqiu. I did one 10 pull on Neuvilette's banner just to see if I might get lucky, but I got a second Yanfei, so with my luck I'd probably max out her and Barbara (who I don't even use) before I even get one constellation for Xingqiu. It's really frustrating, because I don't want to waste my primos on a 5-star I don't even know if I really want when I'd rather save them for characters that I know I really like and would definitely use, but I also use my Xingqiu a LOT and would love to get him closer to C6. 😮‍💨

[@alexliengsky6884]

They could also expand the Fortuitous Invitation from Lantern Rite to other regions whenever there's a big event dedicated to them, as the Windblume Fest is for Mondstadt, the Akademiya Extravaganza for Sumeru, the Akitsu Kimodameshi for Inazuma, and now the Fontinalia Film Festival for Fontaine. Pick the 4-star of your choice from those regions, and it's still leans towards the FOMO since if you weren't there you lost your chance at getting constellations for the character you wanted. Another option that they should also consider would be to add a free character every patch for the big limited time event rather than switching between character and weapon every patch. We are getting so many and we've been getting more interactions between characters from other regions that it wouldn't be odd adding say, Thoma, when he participated in a Mondstadt event. Or Rosaria who went to Fontaine for a holiday or something. We've been getting more and more 4-stars that need their C6 to work, so getting one copy of them won't be so detrimental to their sales since there's still a lot of RNG involved in the banners.

[@Kemuell_Mabuen]

I agree with everything you said in this video. About the star glitter, comparing pulling for c6 4 star vs c0 or even c2 5 stars, epitomized path, adding 4 stars to the shop, everything. I've often gotten so aggravated at how I would want a specific 4 star unit and half of my pulls are WEAPONS! on the CHARACTER banner. The other half are the wrong 4 star (same with weapon banner). There are plenty of times where I thought about getting a 4 star with star glitter. For example: it was how I got c5 Beidou. Then the next standard 10 pull (with only aquaint fates, I'm not crazy enough to spend primos there) I got Beidou and then 2 or three banners later, I got Beidou 2 times in a row. So I got 10 star glitter for copies of her when I could have saved those 34 glitters if I had just been patient (to be fair, I hadn't seen her on a banner for a while before then). So this is always going through my mind when I think about getting a 4 star with glitter that I don't have c6 or any cons for (like Amber, Kaeya, Lisa). There absolutely needs to be a better way of obtaining 4 stars rather than, glitter here and there, lantern rite once a year, waiting for banners only to have 5 stars you don't want or don't want to risk pity on, or even the very few events where you get a free 4 star of THEIR choosing rather than your own. There just needs to be a better way. F2P is almost always defined as "4 star friendly," depending on who you talk to, as apposed to a full team of 5 stars, yet, 5 stars are arguably MUCH easier to get. I have yet to have spent a single penny on my C2 Raiden and her weapon. I got really lucky and got her weapon in 1 single ten pull, my first ever, on the weapon banner on her first rerun (that's roughly when I started playing). Even if I never spent money on my account, (looking at you mist splitter and thundering pulse) people might still look at my Raiden and think she was paid for ALL because she's c2 with her weapon, not to mention triple crowned (someone actually thought I was a whale in co-op because I had a lot of triple crowned units). Same exact thing with my c4 Yelan and her Aqua. No money spent on her banners either. All this to say is, in my experience, I have spent less money or none on so many of my 5 star units vs 4 stars I wanted cons for, or even just 1 copy of them (Kuki...). 4 stars are nice, for sure, but yeah, so many 5 stars work just as well or better at C0 (depending on the time that you started playing). Example: At the time, Raiden was considered a better unit than Fishy when comparing which unit was the better battery (for a while and before dendro). Kazuha vs Sucrose due to ease of grouping. Zhong Li vs any other shielder in most cases though not only because he has the best shield. The list goes on. More people need to see this video. At the end of the day, as a low spender, F2P, etc. it's generally a better investment to save for a specific 5 star unit than to plan to try to get a 4 star, because 5 stars have a pity system and 4 stars have none, just RNG. Want Xingqiu? Save for Yelan. Want Beidou? Save for Raiden/Yae Miko. Want Barbara? Save for Kokomi. Want Fishy? Save for Raiden/Yae Miko. Want Noelle? Save for I...tto... ok that's kinda not the same anymore with Furina... Want Kuki? Save for... Raiden... I hate myself for saying that... never speak of this again... Want Bennett? Save for Furina and Cloud Retainer (this is a bad example because there isn't really a 5 star Benny but those two combined can buff dmg and heal without putting a pyro aura on you). Are these 5 stars better than the 4 stars? Not all the time but that's the point, they are just easier to get.

[@nara-yana]

I also had this mentality that 4-Stars were meant for F2P and low spenders... Then the *Itto + Gorou* banner came and changed everything - as *Itto* was a sure _skip_ for someone with a built *Noelle.* Then the same happened on the *Wanderer + Faruzan* banner: Wanderer was another _skip_ as Xiao existed on my account. Then my newest 4-Stars started stopping at C2~C4: Thoma, Kuki, Heizou, Dori, Collei, Candace, Yaoyao, Mika, Kaveh... I don't even have a Kirara (only one that I am missing)! ...Thinking back again, this problem predates even Raiden and Sara, as I *"had"* to get 2 Ayakas (I won the 50/50 twice on a character that I didn't really want) in order to C6 my *Sayu,* (which I _really_ enjoy and _really_ wanted to play around with) on her first banner... ugh.

[@mamastory3507]

I have yet to summon from the game because I am waiting for Neuvilliette I have a big question sorrounding all this, should I go for C1 Neuvilliette or wait for more 5 star banners like Khazua and Zhongli to support Neu? Currently I legit don't have a functioning team as summons have been abyssmal for me sitting with only 3 characters that are not from the "original" free characters (Chongyu, Razor, and Sara) Neuvilliette is the entire reason I am playing the game (patiently waiting currently) so I was considering if it's worth going for C1 on my first ever banner or not?

[@plvto1]

Normally you should prioritize characters over cons, especially support characters as you can use them in more teams and situations than DPSes. But that's just what I think, don't take the game too seriously.

[@pun30763]

If Neuvillette is the only reason you play this game then pulling C1 can't go wrong, the C1 makes him a lot more flexible in team building. Kazuha is pretty great support for both C0 and C1 Neuvillette, while Zhongli only desirable for the C0 and more of a comfort choice. So Kazuha probably has more value for Neuvillette. Pull for C0 first and try his team out(whatever available to you) and see how you feel.

[@SuilongV3]

17:58 That's actually the EXACT situation I'm in. I'm using Raiden as a hyperbloom trigger because I can't seem to get Kuki

[@GenshinPlayerBR]

I know that feel. I've been playing for 1 year and a half and so far I haven't managed to get a single Yunjin. Last year I got my Xingqiu C0 in the Lantern Rite, this year I'm going to get Yunjin C0.

[@lazyraquan9856]

One of the worst things is when you get a 4 star and it's not the one on the banner they need to fix if I'm wishing on a banner I want the 4 stars on the banner not a razor outta nowhere

[@learnthis4768]

This was really well said. Thank you.

[@SpolyM]

Can confirm, been an issue for me since Inazuma. When I was pulling for Itto on his first banner, I spent maybe 120 pulls. I got Itto, but 0 Gorou (not C0, but literally no Gorou). And then there was also 1st Raiden banner and her rerun with Kokomi at version 2.5, where I spent more than 250 pulls combined. I got C2 Raiden and C0 Kokomi BEFORE i even got C5 Kujou. (I know I was lucky with Raiden, but still) After that whenever someone suggest a "f2p" team for me, then proceed to show their C6 4-star, I just say "thanks" as politely as possible then move on.

[@VetoShizu]

Must be nice being able to get Chevreuse in general. I started to think the banner was false advertising cause even after 70 pulls I didn't get a single copy. That's why Lantern Rite free 4 star annoys me now. I'm a day one player so I have most of the early 4 stars at C6 but even my account i don't even have a Gorou and now Chevy who I wanted. They need to update the shop already.

[@thorizon2187]

I've pulled 150 pulls only to get dozens of Bennett and a few Sara, and guess what? Just a single freaking Chevreuse. Istg the chances are massively increased if you have characters that are already maxed cons.

[@koconnor117]

Somebody say hallelujah! Everything jello said here was spot on. Also poor Chevreuse got left out lol

[@anabarbara7706]

I gave this some thought so I even logged in just to leave a comment 😂 i saw once a tier list with C0 and C6 4* characters. I think the best way to tier list (or even consider) the characters would be a C0 and C-their-best-constellation (which in some cases is C4, C6, etc). This way we would know what the characters are capablr of at C0, but also what they're capable of at their best! Especially when comparing them with 5*s. (And small note, i also wish we had an epitomized path for 4*, or that they did indeed add inazuma chars to the store now, sumeru next year, etc)

[@Lesterberne]

“Xingqiu doesn’t pop off until C6” is a wild wild take

[@Shane_A_M]

It may have been more accurate to say “he doesn’t become better then C0 Yelan until C6”

[@soumaghosh2671]

Is xingqui at c6 better than c0 yelan in terms of dps? Let's say with 4 star weapon only

[@kai1537]

​@@soumaghosh2671 thats what I heard but idk myself. If that's the case then he may be better than yelan cause of the defensive utility. Unless ofc yelan is c2

[@soumaghosh2671]

Btw I don't think it's that wild of a take since c6 xingqui has more hydro app, more damage coz of extra rain swords and lower er req which means u can focus more on damage through weapon and/or artifacts. So all these amount to a significant difference between c6 and non c6 xingqui

[@lafeechloe6998]

@@soumaghosh2671that’s not the case at all but XQ fans are gonna assassinate me for saying the truth

[@TheEvilRayquaza]

The point with Kuki is so relatable, it took so long for me to get a Kuki so she's stuck with C0 as she's been featured on banners where I had no interest in the featured 5 star on it. God knows how long it will be before getting another constellation, or 2. Maybe they should do the 4 star choice that they do for Lantern Rite, but for other regions.

[@PranavSankar-ou1it]

Good video!! As an f2p player i have a problem with 4 stars cons too😢. I have been playing this game since 2.0 and I don't even have a single cons for sucrose and i pulled on every banner she was on!😔

[@halloweenjax]

Since you asked me in particular... I have been playing for about 6-7 months? The only 4* I have at C6 is Sara and it was because I just kept getting copies of her while pulling for Raiden who I saved about a million pulls for... and went from no Sara to C6. I didn't want her, use no teams that utilize her, and really just wanted a C1 for Bennett. Otherwise I have a C4 XL (first free from abyss, one from pulls, one from starglitter, one from lantern rite) and a C4 Kuki from what feels like a literal miracle. Otherwise everyone is at best C1-2 if they have cons at all. I don't have Sucrose and feel like I never will because I passed on Navia/Ayaka to save for Nahida. I am not 100% F2P. I have pretty consistently gotten BP and Welkin moon, but otherwise haven't dropped much on crystals.

[@SydonX3]

When I started, I only managed to get C1 of the 4 stars when I went for a 5 star. I think FTP friendly should be evaluated at C2 4star and C0 5star, while optimal potential should be evaluated at C6 4star and C2 5star.

[@MikaaWoo]

Imo if you do a f2p or beginner tierlist the 5* and 4* should be considered c0 n you can talk about when the characters really get better like you did here. I loved hearing it but most of my 4* I didn’t have many copies of yet. Except Dori.. jippy, and now Faruzan c6 which i didn’t aim for. Being new at Genshin is really confusing, specially if you’ve never played a gacha game before. I’m very happy I found your Genshin and HSR vids tho so I understand it a bit more. Much love o/

[@Ulquiorra_Cifer]

during this banner i've gotten xxianyun and nahida and keqing and still only got 2 copies of gaming ironically, right now im just pulling to hopefully get nahida's c2 but if not i'll get neuvilette's c1 next patch

[@TheKnightedDawn]

I'm a dolphin (buy Welkins and occasionally BP) who started just shy of a year ago (mid-March) and yeah. Paused mid-way through this video to say, yeah. I JUST got my first C6 4 star this week and it was Noelle. (I'm okay with this, I want to be able to do Mono-Geo especially when I get Albedo after he reruns!) I didn't get a SINGLE copy of Xingqiu or Bennett for 6 ish months, and had to buy my first Xingqiu with starglitter in September... AND even though I DID pull on Yelan's banner, I still only have him at C3! (I'm hoping to C6 him soon because he'll be back in shop and I plan to pick up a copy of him in Lantern Rite but OOF!) It's painful as a Kaeya-main who wanted to run freeze or melt teams but neither of the "Best F2P!" teams were available for me! I pulled for Ayato and got a C4 Kuki after not having her AT ALL prior to that and was able to make my first ACTUALLY DECENT HYPERBLOOM TEAM! Now I get why it's such a big deal. ^-^' I still only have a C0 Fischl, too, and I got my first copy of Beidou in August... I actually got her from the starglitter shop JUST so I could have an off-field Electro unit that wasn't Lisa, because Lisa felt super clunky to me! (Then, I was worried I wouldn't be able to get Xingqiu the following month! Luckily, I got enough starglitter wishing for Zhongli, but it was a close call!) So yeah, I have to take a lot of guides with a grain of salt. Yours have been more useful than most because you give a lot of options and explain that sub-optimal can still be okay! (But you'll probably be happy to hear my first five star was an accidental Nilou and I JUST got her a Nahida this week! Being able to run a Nilou Bloom team has been a great alternative for me for most of my time playing Genshin, and now her team works even better~)

[@ghnbtrcv8672]

You arn't dolphin maybe tuna fish 😂

[@Sanatic14]

mine was nilou too on her first banner. i also just got nahida but i have no idea what bloo team to use. im thinking nilou nahida furina ayato/xingqui

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

@@Sanatic14 Nilou Nahida Baizhu Xingqiu is the most ideal. Furina buff is wasted since she don't buff the Bloom itself. If no Baizhu then Collei will do

[@Sanatic14]

@@nonamepasserbya6658 yea ill have to use collei then. also nilou should be the one to trigger bloom right? or can i use her aura skill and trigger with nahida

[@TheKnightedDawn]

@ghnbtrcv8672 I have spent less than $100 on the game. I skip a lot of banners, and have gotten INCREDIBLY lucky in some ways (i.e. I got Kuki nearly every time I pulled a 4 star on Ayato's banner and have gotten several early 5 stars as well!) But like I said... my four star luck has been very weird when it comes to "staple" F2P characters. The first six months were a big struggle to get through because all my teams were completely sub par. The only Hydro characters I had in the first 6 months were Nilou and Barbara, and Ayato is still only my FOURTH! My account definitely has felt different after his banner, lots more viable teams and way more fun to mess around!

[@_Romer]

Just got c5 faruzan hope i can get her c6 on this banner

[@PlaySenpai]

250 Pulls on scara banners, 0 FARUZAN

[@CC-qi7xw]

I stayed playing on the enkanomiya event on and off and I just managed to get ONE bennet on that Fontaine event that gave you a copy

[@Axterix13]

Don't use the phrase "building pity". It's "risking pity". Building sounds positive, which makes people more likely to do it. The reality is that wishing on a banner for a five star you don't want is risking all the pity you have. Only after you are done can say, "Well, at least I built some pity", but that's a bit of a consolation prize, rather than what you were doing.

[@Axterix13]

Anyway, yeah, it's an issue. Even as a spender, you have the same issues, because of the risk inherent in wishing for a four star. Not only could you get a five star character or con you don't want (because most spenders have limits on their spending), but there's no guarantee. You can wind up in the situation where having spent can make things even worse. Like I have a C6 Yae, which means any four star that runs alongside Yae, I essentially only have one banner to choose from. And then there's the odds that a new five star is in the first half, and the new four star in the second half. Said new five star will, of course, have a strong c1 or c2 con. The characters on the second half, well, if you already have those early cons you want you're only left with ones you aren't interested in. And the four star? It won't run again for months, and probably not on a banner you want, because there's a 50/50 chance that it runs on the second half again. This is why, for example, I have a c0 Yaoyao, picked up from the Lantern Rite. An entire year, 0 copies of her obtained from banners. As far as Gaming goes, I think it is best to think of him as an inverse Faruzan. He's a four star DPS that wants C6 to DPS for a specific five star support, rather than a four star "get C6" support for a specific DPS or two... Sadly, the shop wouldn't help much. Without banners, it takes a long time to get those constellations. Like take Xiangling... get her from the Abyss, but C4? That would take 2 years to get her to C4 using the shop. Shop is good for getting the first copy, but not beyond that. And then consider all the characters that want cons, at a cost of just shy of 7 wishes per con. That said, I do want them to add something to it: one copy per month of a "4-star constellation token". One that'll work to give a con to any four star that has been out for 3-6 months. Won't get you the character, but will let you get a constellation on one four star of your choice per month. And also a similar thing for weapon refines, which would include four star weapon banner exclusive weapons (because those are even worse than four star characters). Ideally both at a cost cheaper than 34. The last thing to add: There's a difference between F2P and new player. Many equate one to be the other, which they aren't. Those "F2P" guides use four stars to cap the power level, and to not tie it down to the abilities of a specific five star. You'll have to adjust them for what you have. You'll lose out some power due to lack of cons, but add power by using certain five stars. And perhaps you'll have to follow a guide that uses a different team. There's just too much variation between accounts.

[@adenydd12349]

I like the concept of 'risking pity'... that's indeed a more precise description of what you're doing.

[@agentbluegaming7709]

My raiden shogun pulls were incredibly unlucky. C6 Kujou Sara (Who I wasn't intending on building and using to begin with), C5 Chevreuse, and one copy of bennett. Not counting any weapons I may have pulled off the banner as well. All of that was before ever seeing a single Raiden Shogun and it took literally farming single pulls by the end to get her near the end of her banner. The worse part was having gotten two polearms that could work with her before her banner came out making it seem a bit like I might get her. I did, but it was painful. Nahida, on the other hand. Took only 30 pulls in four days just for her to show up early after Raiden. I also got Sac Fragments before Nahida rerurn as well. Might be a bit superstitious, but it does seem like me getting the weapons for characters I plan to pull could mean me getting them (whether it will be easy is a different story.) Also I only got one or two copies of Faruzan and no Gaming, but I don't plan on using them any time soon so I don't mind.

[@satoutakamachi7186]

I love the silly little superstitions that arise, on my account I can't seem to pull the 4 star of the element of the 5 star ( if ones there), No kujo saras with Raiden, no Noelles with Zhongli and 2 Neuvilettes for a single xq while every different element 4 star comes home atleast once.

[@agentbluegaming7709]

@satoutakamachi7186 that's kind of funny to think about. I dont have any other stories for genshin, but ive noticed i have faulty luck on hsr. I get 5stars in a single ten pull if im not planning on pulling more than that or dont care enough about the character (or dont plan on building right away) i pulled jingliu and black swan this way. Thanfully jingliu has become an irreplaceable member on my team. Black swan will take a while because i have too many characters to build.

[@spedslowed_haru]

It took me 4 constellations of Scaramouche to get C6 Faruzan😭