Veganism is incomplete without anti-capitalism, actually.

[@robynkolozsvari]

"I don't have an ideology but I'm fervently anti-anti-capitalism" may be the most neoliberal sentence I've ever heard

[@euansmith3699]

"I'm apolitical; I just support the status quo!"

[@JasonMcCarrell]

What is with reactionairies adding an additional anti on to things. It reminds me of the shirt i saw that said "anti anti fa" like... ummm do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

[@otto_jk]

@@JasonMcCarrell a shirt with just fa would be as ridiculous

[@lolerpro]

“I don’t have an ideology, I just (proceeds to ascribe an ideology to self)”

[@maxheadroom7992]

Can't like this because it's at 420 likes, but I like it.

[@leothi2]

I always thought "vote with your wallet" to be dumb, but "socialism is bad because you can't vote with your wallet" is one step beyond

[@allisondoak9425]

It’s bad to vote with your vote.

[@Sandreline]

I've actually heard this argument from multiple sources. It's baffling.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

"See, under the current system, people have to work three jobs to make ends meet. But under Socialism, you'd be down to just one job. Why do you want people to lose their other two jobs, huh?!" --U.V. Probably

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

The interesting thing is that it is not until communism that calls for the abolishment of money so socialists are free to vote with their wallets all they want.

[@GogiRegion]

If voting with your wallet worked, Coca Cola and Nestle would have been out of business long ago. I always use those as examples of the concept of voting with your wallet to be dumb. Obviously me and my friends avoid paying money to them when we can (although with how much they own that’s impossible at times), but because of how big of a monopoly they have on things it’s never going to take them down.

[@seanold]

"Listen, peasant, we can't speculate on how a democracy would work because it is untested. We need to stay a monarchy since we have plenty of evidence that it exists/semi-functions." Some king before democracy

[@kylewilliams8114]

"Every democracy failed! Look at Rome or Athens! Democracies can't work!" Some bootlicker during middle ages

[@Kirbyoto2098]

​@@kylewilliams8114 Considering that there was a time when the premier anti-monarchist revolution was Cromwell's England...

[@gateauxq4604]

‘Allegedly’

[@genevievelavery4759]

I imagine he would have had the peasants keeping each other in check. That's what this looks like to me.

[@alejandrogangotena9033]

@@kylewilliams8114 worked better than the middle ages as in A LOT better. Certainly worked for a lot longer than any big communist or communist attempting society has.

[@paacheecoo97]

My favorite argument anti-socialists make is "bad thing happened, welcome to life under socialism" when in fact it's life under capitalism

[@FrancisR420]

"Look at what's happening in (inserts capitalist country here) because of socialism!"

[@saltysheev5502]

People talking about Venezuela have entered the chat

[@julesmasseffectmusic]

@@FrancisR420 the nazi's (self identified as) were socialists. Charles Manson said he was a good family man. Donald Trump said he wouild run into an active shooter situation. I am the teh worlds greatest lover. all true statments correct?

[@L0RDK3Y]

As a socialist I absolutely love it when they bring up Venezuela, like that one example represents socialism as an ideology and economic model

[@kainuipenaloza9395]

I mean I think people overestimate the similarities of socialism and communism, and then when it's not communism claim it's capitalism. Socialism is very close to capitalism gone wrong, it's literally just over liberalizing capitalism. Om the contrary, communism is similar to capitalism being eradicated. So yes, "pro-capitalism" policies can lead to socialism and destroy society, but that doesn't mean that capitalism is inherently bad.

[@Brawnald]

“Uh. It’s bad? Duh.” -an academically accepted argument against communism in the US

[@Dr_Nuclear-sloth]

I hear the sounds of a Trump flag flying in the wind

[@guyunderwood2297]

Hi. I represent the economic department of an Ivy League school. Would you be interested in a tenured position?

[@Raw774]

Jordoon Potterson has entered the chat

[@ostsarahb7466]

@@Dr_Nuclear-sloth Even Democrats make that kind of argument

[@joshl6275]

Lol. I'm honestly not sure you're too far off the mark. Literally. People who begin the study of economics with the assumption that capitalism is the best and everything else they study is a post-mortem on failed socialist policies, then they're always bound to ignore data that their views might be wrong.

[@Brawnald]

“Anti-anti-capitalist” now reduce your fraction...

[@segara04]

I hope you are proud of this one because I am proud of you for it.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

But wait, that would mean the people who are anti-anti-fascist are actually... oh right.

[@MCAndyT]

solid maths right here!

[@waspoppin4784]

@@FrozEnbyWolf150 yah

[@toericabaker]

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 5/5 comment

[@isabellelam9818]

god. my jaw hit the floor hearing her describe neo-liberalism as "left-leaning" and "pro-wellfare state" -- pardon???

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

I think she is confusing neo liberalism with social liberalism and even then has a decidedly right wing interpretation of it.

[@greywolf7577]

The problem is that there are a lot of Socialists who refer to Bill Clinton or even Obama as neo-liberal, so non-Socialists think that neo-liberal must mean progressive.

[@dannyboy4682]

I mean if you look at American politics, the american 'left' establishment are quite neoliberal and conservative, so it's not too surprising to me when americans get confused

[@larala21mil]

Same, I'm from Chile and I was just FURIUS

[@ernststravoblofeld]

I recently had someone say Anarchism is right wing, referencing a right wing libertarian website. People have no concept of history. They just believe the last thing they heard.

[@ProjectThunderclaw]

"It's unreasonable to advocate for hypothetical alternatives when those alternatives [are untested]" This is my favorite 'dumb person trying to sound smart' argument. Like, sure, let me just set up a couple dozen control nations and run a double-blind trial on communism.

[@rickwrites2612]

yes, and isnt that exactly what we did with capitalism? i mean, i get why it seemed like a promising hypothetical alternative after fuedalism, monarchy, and a Church schism that had half of Europe setting churches on fire and ripping their neighbors limbs off because of *how they prayed to the same God*🤨. Capitalism seems downright civilised in comparison...on paper at least. There's a reason we're referred to as "the American experiment".

[@pepi7404]

According to the logic of her statement, we could never advocate for anything new, because literally all the new ideas and systems haven't been tested, since they're new. We would effectively never get out of the status quo. I'm sure that's totally accidental on her part.

[@Ahmgcats]

The "untested" argument, while not analogous, has an eerily similar energy to "what would happen to all the farm animals if the world went vegan?" It's really just saying "my lack of thoughts about the outcome of this situation is an argument against it."

[@InsecureCreator]

@@pepi7404 damn you're right I didn't think of that, every instance where you would try a new system (even in controlled conditions) can be dismissed by saying we shouldn't bother.

[@beafraid5467]

Funnily enough it was tested on a dozen of newly formed nations

[@PhilosophyTube]

I love the idea of protesting wolves hahaha, just going out into the woods with a sign and yelling at them

[@eliasbischoff176]

You can't just yell at wolves, the natural masters of yelling.

[@Chris_Tinacan]

I can barely recognise you without HP sauce all over your face.

[@toericabaker]

how dare yooOOOUUUUUUUUU🌙

[@Spamhard]

Howl at them and they'll howl back. Could turn into a very noisy protest.

[@sofia.eris.bauhaus]

abolishing wildlife violence is a rather complicated endeavour. it's probably harder than curing cancer. for now veganism is the most easiest and most effective path to reducing the suffering of non-human animals.

[@SanguineRoku]

Thought Slime out here once again reminding people that words mean things.

[@thedorkettereads6052]

Thought Slime: Can you all please top forgetting that words have meanings?

[@davidpeppers551]

And when you make up your own very special meanings for things no one will know what you are talking about.

[@Tacklepig]

They really don't, though. Like, they kinda do, because we as a society agree on that, but without that social construct, proper definitions and context, words are literally meaningless. In fact, without context and proper definitions, literally everything is meaningless. That's why lots of people define their terms so rigorously, so it's very, extremely clear what they're talking about, and that's why these people sometimes sound like they "make up different meanings".

[@SanguineRoku]

@@Tacklepig Yes thanks for reminding me that without people to make the words and define them, the words wouldn't have definitions.

[@TheBlarggle]

@@Tacklepig Man, I bet you thought you busted out this sick intellectual paradox.

[@DammitBobby]

This is THE most terminal case of capitalist Realism I've ever seen.

[@Izzrules]

EXACTLY

[@batty_babette]

Ooooooo that's a great way to put it!

[@billhicks8]

Mark Fisher is spinning on his Burial vinyls

[@DammitBobby]

@@billhicks8 off topic, but Untrue is unironically my favorite vinyl record I own.

[@brendanmccabe8373]

I recently reread Capitalist Realism and about half an hour after I finished I watched her video and I was completely venerated in my cause to look over it

[@TheMattastic]

"I don't have an ideology. Anyway, here is my entire system of ideals that informs my political identity."

[@Radhaun]

"Humans and chickens are different" Somewhere in history: *Diogenes waving a plucked chicken around*

[@kidkurmudgeon-0_o]

Harvey Birdman objects

[@Ksrwilhelm]

Diogenes is humanity's greatest genious.

[@leftistthought2572]

@@Ksrwilhelm he was at least history's first Punk.

[@inigo137]

The mere fact that he could handle the cadaver of a featherless chicken and no a human shows they are different.

[@Monkeyshaman]

@@leftistthought2572 Greek philosopher is as punk a job as delaware accountant.

[@Anarchovamp]

I remember when marx famously said “I like borger king a lot”

[@kadboodle]

Favorite part of kapital tbh

[@O1OO1O1]

Defeat capitalism, he would, if he didn't succumb to his only vice, the King.

[@KArchine]

"Hmm. 'Borger King'."

[@jeffreyherrera5069]

Was this before or after Carl Jr. opened his own borger restaurant, in defiance of the King?

[@CaptIronfoundersson]

That's ridiculous. Marx preferred Wendy's.

[@diegosanchez894]

When someone says "I don't have an ideology" they are terminally neoliberal.

[@Liz-xq2wi]

It sort of reminds me of white people saying they don’t see race.

[@diegosanchez894]

@@Liz-xq2wi Or when people claim a news source is "unbiased", or that they look at the evidence "objectively" or that are always praising "common sense". It always reeks of unexamined assumptions.

[@redacted5078]

When people say they dont care about politics they're inmediately neo liberal. No questions

[@DanielBurtonDidYourWife]

the late Michael Brooks has a 9 minute segment on his show about this exact topic.

[@darklordphatty555]

Shit this is so accurate 🤣😆

[@jammartusia]

I come from Poland and was born just after country escaped from the soviet union. I acknowledge the awful parts of communism in the past, but I really appreciated the socialism parts which were still in place when I was a child. I used to live in a small town but I had a dentist and a nurse in every school, free sport/art/dance/whatever classes funded by my town council. Every few years I was measured, weighted and vaccinated at school, for free. We've had a cinema and an artificial lake to swim in summer and skating in winter. All stages of my education were free of charge, so were almost all my medical needs. Nothing is perfect, but I can see how my childhood was different from childhood of my British or American friends and still I think I've had more possibilities to get education and healthcare without engaging my parent's money into it.

[@caesaroctavianus3054]

Your country didn’t escape from the Soviet Union and wasn’t oppressed, your country was taken over by what were essentially CIA agents. Stop the propaganda

[@carlcarlington7317]

"Uh yeah we shouldn't get rid of child labor because if we did then how could we boycott child labor?"

[@toericabaker]

lmaoooo she's so self centric. " But what's in it for ME?"

[@rogue8533]

Yeah, lol

[@Hilfiata]

What's the current alternative to child labor in countries with economies and people who rely on child labor for survival?

[@carlcarlington7317]

@@Hilfiata paying working people in any country a loving wage so children don't have to work. If your worried that this'll increase the cost of living in the first world instead of costing the capitalist their profits, that just seems like a point against capitalism.

[@Hilfiata]

@@carlcarlington7317 That would be absolutely amazing. Now, how do you go about actually making that happen?

[@KristenNicoleYT]

Her reasoning seriously boils down to “if we didn’t have capitalism, then I couldn’t make as much money promoting veganism”

[@DavidLindes]

Ah-hah! Now the truth comes out... Thanks for spotting this!

[@Shimansaji]

She’s VeganTM (C) (R) as PC would say.

[@tatiana4050]

I think its more than that. I saw her video on "controvercial vegan views". And only reason why she is ok with dogs and cats not going vegan is cause "vegan animal food is made by small companies and they are less trust worthy". Like she would do it herself if she found big brand but she couldn't so she bought cat food from another big brand.

[@KristenNicoleYT]

@@tatiana4050 Can you expand a little bit on what you mean? I’m not sure I follow your logic, so I don’t really know how to reply, but I’m interested in understanding your point of view!

[@tatiana4050]

@@KristenNicoleYT i think she her support for capitalism is based on some fundamental faulty beliefs. Rather than just caring about money she gets. Like that was example of simping for capitalism not related to her income. For some reason she believes bigger means better, maybe something like "bigger means it has been successful, so it can't be bad, and definitely comes under larger scrutiny so definitely passes through rigorous inspections, and small company can just do anything, and there must be a reason why it hasn't been successful enough to become big". Which clearly ignores that smaller company has more control over their product. As well as being very strict and controlling about the standards will result in smaller companies. And regarding the indirect quote, she made a video about her controversial views. She said pet cats and dogs should ideally be vegan, and that there exists vegan food for cats but she doesnt trust it cause the brands that make it are very small, so her cat wasn't vegan. I used to like her, but this plus the BLM video and her protecting vegan teacher, and comparing prejudice against vegans to homophobia. She turns out to be a completely different person.

[@irinka8319]

i’m literally losing my mind at the fact she thinks neoliberalism is “pro-welfare state” LMAOOOO

[@Xondar11223344]

Ronald "Welfare Queen" Reagan and Margaret "I hate the poors" Thatcher both LOVED the welfare state, don't you know?

[@mynamejeff3545]

I took psychic damage at that line holy shit

[@alexscriabin]

tbf neoliberalism is "welfare" for corporations and corporate executives lol

[@esztersimon2210]

this is like the third video she made that arguement and thousand of people have been correcting her in the comments, but she still thinks she is the one getting it right

[@irinka8319]

@@esztersimon2210 yeah its insane watching her double down on this when people have proved her wrong and educated her multiple times. i used to be a fan (didn't know about her eugenics take) but this is just way too insane. i guess she decided to go full mask off in 2021

[@ohohnoy]

Urgh, I used to watch her. She actually was the one to get me to commit to veganism so I had a soft spot for her. I finally had to unsubscribe after her BLM video wich had some crazy bad takes. Sad to see that she's gone even more of the rails.

[@beveledeggs7494]

Same here

[@katieosborne5203]

She’s had several bad takes in the last year.

[@ATurtleAteMyTrex]

same :(

[@oliviacole7427]

same she got me to become vegaterian sad to see her go down hill

[@Universal_Pig]

I really appreciate her work doing take downs of dangerous fad diets. But every time she steps outside of speaking about nutrition and food and tries to comment on politics it’s just SO bad. Poorly researched, poorly argued. Gaping logical holes. It makes me question how true any of the other stuff she’s said about nutritional science is tbh.

[@GrimReader]

"Neo-liberalism is left-leaning" I vomited all over my red and black flag

[@okonx003]

Cool, then she should define herself as a social Democrat

[@GrimReader]

Holy shit that's a lot of likes

[@ericbuhne3488]

It was nice to learn that I apparently learned nothing from my political science degree. Supposedly everything I was taught, literally everything, was wrong. Thanks unnatural vegan for showing me the truth 😊

[@russaz09]

I'm new here. What flag?

[@ericbuhne3488]

@@russaz09 anarcho-communism if I’m not mistaken

[@noviatoria2436]

"I'm not pro-capitalism, I'm just anti-anti-capitalism" How can anyone say that and think it makes any kind of sense?!

[@hollandscottthomas]

It's the unnecessary extra backflip in the mental gymnastics that breaks your leg on the dismount.

[@Kirbyoto2098]

People are acting like this is ridiculous but it's pretty easy to explain in theory: someone who doesn't like capitalism, but thinks the alternatives are worse, would be "anti-anti-capitalism" without being "pro-capitalism". In the same way that a lot of leftists aren't pro-Biden, but they are anti-Trump. Even though in a binary system that amounts to the same thing, the distinction is important to a lot of people. Whether or not she's sincerely "not pro-capitalist" is debatable, of course, but it's not an impossible statement.

[@omarqasirov8754]

"not pro fa. Just anti-antifa"

[@Eon2641]

@@Kirbyoto2098 That would make sense if she didn't just finish a video arguing in favour of capitalism without a shred of real criticism. While a neutral position could theoretically exist (even though it would be extremely unlikely in reality), in practice her "neutral" is just being a capitalist while being unaware she's a capitalist.

[@Kirbyoto2098]

@@Eon2641 Yeah I'm not defending her, just the statement. "I don't like x, I just hate the alternatives" is a valid logical statement.

[@senoraraton]

"Jesus christ you can't even be a dishonest anti-communist right". ROFLMAO

[@JohnnyAppleseed-mq9lb]

She graduated from the Sargon of Akkad school of reading studies.

[@mysticalquilava]

Carl of Swindon, you mean lol

[@consentclub8431]

Why is this so accurate

[@jaylenecanales9703]

26:26 considering she made a whole video about why she shouldn't have to care about BLM bc BLM activists don't care about veganism (erasing the existence of black vegans ig), I'd say you can't expect her to care about the material conditions of bipoc under capitalism

[@FloydBunsen]

Yeah. Her point is that animal lives matter, bur then just disregards human lives.

[@lunali7209]

vegans like her equating black ppl to animals is so racist and why poc dislike white vegans

[@danielludwig647]

That’s just next-level anti-intersectionalism. Absolutely bull-headed.

[@Xondar11223344]

@@danielludwig647 I'd say it's straight-up racism.

[@dontnoable]

Comes as no surprise she'd be erasing Black vegans even though I've seen her demanding evidence of white supremacy in the vegan community from Black women vegans. Unnatural Vegan deserves nobody's time.

[@The5lacker]

"All my homies hate GDP" Can confirm, I'm a parasocial homie and I too hate GDP.

[@MCAndyT]

same

[@orion0915]

Can we get "Fuck GDP, All my homies hate GDP" on a shirt

[@kevinlittrell3407]

The last time I heard this person, she said she wasn’t an intersectional feminist because she doesn’t want an “oppression Olympics”. Such logic

[@rot6254]

oh god

[@consentclub8431]

sounds about white

[@lucyla9947]

Wow, literally all Intersectionality is is saying look at all these oppressed groups, maybe all of their oppression stems from the same issue? An Issue we can then deal with. Literally it's promoting the coming together of the oppressed to stand together as one, not an argument as to who is more oppressed. Look at the fight for Asian equality it was much easier once all Asian-Americans unified together AS ONE. Why shouldn't it be the same for unifying all oppressed groups into one?

[@doctorwholover1012]

@@lucyla9947 right ? Intersectional feminism is literally there to AVOID minorities having to play oppression Olympics, by validating and acknowledging how different aspects of oppression can impact people with different ratios; like a gay black man experiences oppression differently to a straight trans disabled white person, but they both get fucked over by the same systems. That's the entire point of the intersectional aspect....... incredible

[@jaelikesjackalopes]

I reeaaaalllly hate when people try to dismiss criticism of something because there isn’t (or they refuse to see) a “viable alternative” because how are we supposed to begin to imagine alternatives when we refuse to criticize the current situation?

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

It’s especially funny when you consider that, as a vegan, she probably needs to make this very same point to people about eating meat and dairy.

[@TheCommunistColin]

POV: your boss telling you why unionizing is bad after she's announced her intent to fire you tomorrow

[@MrMelkor98]

She's like this one kid in class that gets good grades because they constantly put up their hand to make a meandering point vaguely gesturing into the direction of an argument, without ever making one. She's basically doing an impression of a well-informed person.

[@Disentropic1]

Yes! This aesthetic drives me nuts too because it's _obscenely_ effective. Normies seem to read these behavioral cues as demonstrative that the person is booksmart and a sharp thinker. She doesn't make a single cogent argument in the video, and shamelessly spews "conventional wisdom" uncritically, all while signalling that she's being 'scientific.' For one, I want to know what motivates people to act this way. Given how many conservatives establish their political orientation around anger at liberal coastal elites, encouraging them by playing the role to a T is horrifying to watch. Ostensibly, she should want to put an end to this antagonism, and yet something tells me it's either _more important_ to her that she maintain this clever 'identity,' or worse, that on some level she even benefits from the dynamic. I'm really worried that superficial crap like this is really what defines politics on a cultural level, and that cultural conflict has become the dominant political force in our society. What's the most effective way to deal with people acting like this?

[@sjs9698]

@@Disentropic1 'What's the most effective way to deal with people acting like this?' a: laugh at them & proceed to ignore anything else they try to say. b: as demonstrated in the video above, dismantle their pseudo-arguments methodically. c: something considerably less ethical than either of the above options. (effectiveness is ofc somewhat subjective)

[@Ahmgcats]

I think what's moreover frustrating to me is that she is *generally* well informed, so it's clear that she knows how to do reasonable research which makes it sooooo blatantly obvious when she's limiting her capacity for research to support the narrative she currently agrees with.

[@cafeidiom]

After her video on BLM, and her recent video on D'Angelo Wallace she's firmly put herself in the 'yikes' category.

[@beveledeggs7494]

Had to unsub after that horrible fucking video of hers

[@goobertron9099]

@@beveledeggs7494 What happed I’m too scared to check lol

[@user-xb5bz4fu9o]

@@goobertron9099 same lmao I used to like her but now oh god

[@bumblenbee4013]

@@goobertron9099 baaad things.

[@vojislavl6665]

Who is this person? And what she say on blm?

[@biel96]

I used to watch her videos debunking diets and stuff, until her videos on BLM. Those were... rough. Never watched anything else from her

[@skyclaw]

Finally, an argument stupider than, “All anticapitalism is inherently antisemitic.”

[@IndieGinge]

Damn Idk, that's a tight fuckin race, I don't know who wins

[@slowbro596]

lmaoo at long last, we have arrived

[@thewingedporpoise]

I'm not sure but also, doesn't that kind of feed into antisemitic beliefs

[@noheckinway7732]

Hi! I had no idea this was a thing thank you so much for ruining my day by bringing this to my attention! I will cherish this moment for many days

[@una877]

@@thewingedporpoise yeah it def does which is makes it even more ridiculous

[@DavisPeck]

Ah yes, the classic "socialism is bad because [describes capitalism]"

[@goobertron9099]

SOCIALISM IS BAD BECAUSE I CANT EXPLOIT CHILDREN 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@dylanwight5764]

@@goobertron9099 Pfft, not with THAT attitude

[@SparklesNJazz]

well actually, no, socialism is bad because [describes socialism]. *see Russia, Cuba, China, and North Korea for reference, to name a few.

[@DavisPeck]

@@SparklesNJazz okay liberal

[@erickpm7596]

@@SparklesNJazz *sees cuba's 238 deaths by covid *sees usa's 456,000 + deaths by covid

[@AcolytesOfHorror]

"Yes, molten lava is cascading towards us, but what's the alternative? The evidence suggests that we have never taken a helicopter, which means a helicopter will never work! I'm not like, pro-lava, but I'm definitely anti-anti-lava"

[@sugaredoleander409]

there's definite past evidence of helicopter crashes ergo it would be pointless to ever attempt helicopter travel again. sure, a lot of those choppers were shot down but who's to say it's not an innate flaw with the helicopters themselves? lava is the only system that's been proven to work long-term.

[@extremekiwi101]

@@sugaredoleander409 fuck, this is such a perfect comment

[@no_peace]

Is anyone buying that shit? She's the worst

[@maxwhitehead1759]

her, a clear and obvious genius: "harm is only harm when it hurts people" me, blood streaming freely from every orifice: "god of course it was all so simple"

[@Secretname951]

Harm is when your feelings and beliefs hurt :’(

[@shadowcween7890]

​@@Secretname951 Harm is when parm but with an h because it's a substitute (vegans don't eat parm)

[@colinouille2786]

wouldn't that mean harming animals doesn't harm animals?

[@jensendsflowers]

I unsubbed her after her "Do Vegans Need To Talk About Black Lives Matter?" video. Her comments weren't just hurtful and incorrect, they were stupid too.

[@sanityisrelative]

Same.

[@beveledeggs7494]

Same that was so horrible

[@bibliophilecb]

Same, something about her always rubbed me the wrong way (people who base their entire persona on being “logical” and therefore superior to others often end up being assholes) and that video unfortunately confirmed all my worse fears about her and then some.

[@fortunamajor7239]

Thank you. I was like ... I know this woman can't be THIS tone deaf. 💀

[@thisisjustaflashback]

i'm so glad that i somehow missed that video because i haven't heard anything good about it. but i've unsubscribed from her recently too. very bad vibes lately. she used to seem so sensible but i see what Chris H is saying. a lot of her arguments are pretty pathetic.

[@anarcopablo]

"Ecology without socialism is but gardening" Francisco Mendes - brazilian activist and syndicalyst

[@TheQuixoticRambler]

quote of the day

[@flotin9743]

Viva!

[@jamieduggan4297]

I love that. A new author to read

[@anarcopablo]

@@jamieduggan4297 although Chico Mendes didn´t write anything, he´s still an interesting figure. Most of his renowm comes from his passionate leadership in defense of the Amazon rainforest and it´s local and indigenous population, and subsequent assassination due to it.

[@Khandrake]

When your brain is so fried by capitalism that you can't think outside of capitalism

[@xCorvus7x]

Come on, it is difficult to think outside the box, especially outside of a box wherein you have grown up and lived all your life and that has all kinds of locks and tricks to prevent you from leaving it. Though, I understand that one may marvel at her insistence that all alternatives to the status quo have to be theoretically developed in full and tested scientifically before put into praxis (as if that had been done with Capitalism). This is the safest way to never change any thing, especially since reality is not a lab: you can't control the conditions of your experiment. Ideas have to be put into praxis to gather such evidence, to test them.

[@The_gaming_archaeologist]

My brain isn't that fried yet, but I do want to learn more about other options besides Capitalism.

[@tatiana4050]

@@The_gaming_archaeologist i just wonder what texture would fried brain have.

[@DecepsisOvermark]

@@tatiana4050 if it was deep fried, then crunchy.

[@tatiana4050]

@@DecepsisOvermark cause it has high water and fat content so i was thinking more in detail, Like sure it will be crispy if fried im breadcrumbs. But how would it behave on its own, would it act like mushroom, or more like meat

[@zeeenno]

Her take is like reading Animal Farm and thinking “well, I guess we have to continue to be exploited by the farmers because the anti-farmers might be hypocritical” ...which seems to be how capitalists interpret the text eventhough Orwell explicitly stated that everything he wrote was in favor of democratic socialism.

[@yorkshiremgtow1773]

But is Capitalism actually exploitative of peoples' labor?

[@mynamejeff3545]

@@yorkshiremgtow1773 According to socialists, yes. The value created by a worker isn't paid out in full, instead they get a fraction of that value paid out in the form of wages, while the so-called surplus value is pocketed by the employer in the form of profit. No matter how high their wage is, a worker is never paid the full value of their labor, unless they are their own boss (which is quite rare). Of course, if you aren't a socialist you'll probably disagree, but in that case it's quite useless to even ask whenether capitalism is exploitative of labor, because you already made up your mind.

[@yorkshiremgtow1773]

@@mynamejeff3545 But this isn't true, because it doesn't take into account the additional input from the employer. Let's suppose a busker earns $10 per hour by themselves. A bar-owner speculates that hiring him for the evening will increase revenue, so the busker agrees to work there for $15 per hour for three hours. The extra revenue made is $100.. Has the busker been exploited?

[@mynamejeff3545]

@@yorkshiremgtow1773 Like I said, it's useless to even ask this question if you already made up your mind. It's like a monarchist asking an anarchist whenether the divine right of kings is "unjust authority", knowing full well what the answer will be. Some people really like arguing I guess. Look, doesn't matter how well-paid a worker is, in whatever *completely hypothetical* scenario you can come up with, the worker is still not paid the full value of their labor, which is exploitative. The bar's owner still pockets most of the money the barkeep made that night. Socialists argue for collective ownership, where profits and expenses are shared by workers. You can't just make up a story and expect people to agree with you lmao.

[@yorkshiremgtow1773]

@@mynamejeff3545 Yes, I've had to create a hypothetical scenario here, so that both of us have all of the relevant information to hand. Imagine if I said 'did DeLorean exploit their workers in the short period of operation before they went insolvent' - it would be very difficult to answer this, because we don't have all the facts to hand. Hence, why I've presented a hypothetical here. If the busker has been exploited of his labour working at the bar, by how much has he been exploited?

[@noctembra]

"I'm not fascist, I'm just against antifa" Also I really think more vegans need to realize that a MAJOR chunk of animal suffering is because of maximizing profit margins and other issues under capitalism.

[@wildhearses]

yeah, I've never met a person who "wants" factory farm conditions to exist of things to suffer, those markets were just unregulated and also lobbied to the point they were pretty immune. I think alot of vegans realize that- I def think if you're not going to be vegan knowing where your meat comes from and cutting back can go a long way ect. This particular person just seems to be using veganism to feel like a good person when capitalism has worked for her, she's been allowed to remain delusional and privileged.

[@henryviiifake8244]

"I'm not racist... *🅱️ u t"*

[@alejandrogangotena9033]

maximazing profits is rooted in human greed. It was part of feudalism as well.

[@wl415]

Yes sadly many vegans are very privileged and ignorant to capitalist issues. A small but growing portion are a lot more intersectional as am I. You will not believe some of the shit I’ve heard these people say.

[@SparklesNJazz]

antifa is interesting because while they claim to be anti-fascist, they’re actually pretty damn fascist because they demand ideological conformity, aka agree with me or i’ll burn down your house/city/rob your business/dox you/slander your name etc etc. sometimes you gotta look a little deeper than the name

[@vanyaaaa334]

I used to follow her before she started sharing her terrible takes on disabled people and BLM, god I’m so glad I unfollowed her for good this is so embarrassing

[@jay1603]

I've followed her for ages and she just KEEPS spitting out these weapons grade bad takes and I think it's time for me to go too...

[@quackgoesthegooose]

What were her takes on disabled people?

[@jay1603]

@@quackgoesthegooose I think she said (out loud and in public) that there was nothing morally wrong with aborting a child purely because you find out they will be disabled

[@naturalburial8375]

@@jay1603 She also explained the morality of the death of disabled people based on so-called sentience in the over-used "who will you save, dog or human ? iamverysmart" thought exercise

[@wmdkitty]

@@jay1603 I'm pro-choice, but I do think that it's undeniably ableist to abort a potentially-disabled fetus.

[@Boggythefroggy]

I used to watch this lady’s videos where she’d dunk on other annoying vegans, but stopped when she made a weird video against Lindsay Ellis’ Dumbo video. I guess I sensed something weird going on underneath cos this is just baaad. Like how would she not recognize capitalism leads directly to the exploitation of animals for consumption because the animals become a commodity for profit..?? The reason we get giant farms with less regulation which lead to suffering of animals is capitalism? Man this hurts my brain lmao

[@romancandleofthewild]

I never saw that dumbo video but I dipped out after her blm vid where she denounced intersectionality and said vegans don't need to support blm.

[@wildhearses]

@@romancandleofthewild I haven't watched this video but heard about it and it's super telling she also jumps to defense of that tik tok "vegan teacher" person when they compare eating animals to being nazis or whatever... so you can cross human rights streams when it suits your agenda of not giving a shit about black people, ok... also the whole comparing marginalized human rights to animal rights is just like not a great look. I think I realized she's kind of out of touch years ago but she seems like privileged trash that just got a rise out of freelee being slightly worse.

[@Ahmgcats]

It was her tweeting about women being irrational for being afraid of getting assaulted when they go out at night for me.

[@origamioctopi]

@@Ahmgcats dang the ice cold takes just keep coming from unnatural vegan

[@sanityisrelative]

I dropped her after the BLM video. She showed up in my feed the other day after watching D'Angelo's videos about that vegan teacher person as a response to him and I just couldn't bring myself to watch that take. I hadn't seen/heard about the other things mentioned in this thread.

[@helenarneson9384]

her whole reasoning really seems to boil down to “i like feeling morally superior to other people by being vegan, and if we did things that would actually meaningfully change living conditions for animals i couldn’t feel that way any more.”

[@alexiswinter6948]

She's not vegan. She's vegetarian. She talks quite a bit about backyard chickens and eating eggs.

[@amoureux6502]

@@alexiswinter6948 she talks about it but I don't think she personally eats eggs

[@noahatlas5240]

GO OFF 💀💀💀💀

[@paiganism]

this what i wanted to come comment essentially-her argument completely boils down to her Enjoying being able to vote with her dollar & that she’s allowed to spec into this “moral” choice....which feels like she prefers a crueler system as long as she gets to sit on her high horse above it. we need a system where no one is “voting” with money to begin with.

[@vincevince2414]

@@alexiswinter6948 she never said that. Only that people with backyard chicken who take care of them, don’t exploit them to have more eggs and doesn’t kill them, could still eat egg in a vegan-called diet. Which makes sense as veganism is about animal cruelty, not the intrinsect nature of what is in your plate. And I said vegan-called diet because the point is about making it easier to tell people what’s your diet. I’m Vegan is simpler than I’m Vegan but still eat some eggs sometimes as I have free range chicken in my backyard that won’t be kill for food or overfed to produce more eggs.

[@rebeccahwilson3673]

I used to watch UV until her BLM video. Super cringe. She has said that she used to be super into Any Rand.

[@thepants1450]

Ayn Rand? Seriously? That explains a lot

[@hollandscottthomas]

That actually explains a lot...

[@ZijnShayatanica]

_Y I K E S_

[@aerenrose3528]

Hey,the fountainhead makes a great paper weight. Ive flattened so many curved posters with a copy i got when i was 14 for a christmas present

[@slaughterround643]

A n y R a n d

[@toericabaker]

Yaya I couldn't believe her BLM video. She has had this coming. Her flippant dismissal of everything left has been repugnant to watch. How does she have the ego to hand wave away an entire economic branch of study?

[@McHobotheBobo]

Whyte peepol, amirite?

[@ashtons8626]

@@McHobotheBobo we are disgusting

[@McHobotheBobo]

@@ashtons8626 Certainly the ones that parrot the bullshit of western empire, they're holding the world back and making us all look bad

[@gizmodobaggins7040]

@@McHobotheBobo "western empire" lol

[@kylewilliams8114]

It's like she's trying to be woker than woke. Spoiler alert: just makes her an ignorant Karen in the guise of a wokescold.

[@theaureliasys6362]

Neolibs: "if I can't see the harm myself, it doesn't exist."

[@twinkiesmaster69]

As someone who has never been shoot by a gun I can confirm to you that america doesn't exist

[@raziraphale]

Her saying something can be unjust without being harmful has genuinely haunted my brain for the last 2 years. Sometimes I'll have a quiet moment to myself and my brain's idle mode is just trying to think of a possible example of an unjust action that doesn't cause harm. I still don't have an answer. Free Me

[@an8strengthkobold360]

I guess it's like, whites lies? Idk

[@sairassiili]

Its like a zen riddle.

[@tangentfox4677]

I have a possible explanation for the idea from my life experiences. Multiple times I have been the victim of a crime, harm was done to me, and the person who committed the crime got no punishment or very little. Some would call this injustice, but the lack of punishment is not causing harm. The harm was already done. Another way to look at it, some of these crimes caused me so little harm that it doesn't really matter. There is injustice, but as far as I care, no real harm. (It's a fucking stupid way to approach these things, but at least I can imagine scenarios where it makes sense.)

[@SnoFitzroy]

@@tangentfox4677 That's a really interesting take! My knee-jerk reaction is "please don't validate her ideals she's terrible" but no this is actually a really interesting way to think about it. That said, I'd still counter that even if said harm was extremely minimal, it is still indeed harm, and she implied zero harm from injustice was possible, you merely encountered a really tiny amount of harm from injustice, which is not zero harm, which my autism brain wants to plea "she's TECHNICALLY incorrect anyway" on lmao

[@danlovegrove6972]

@raziraphale She made a response to this video (which I would not recommend watching because you will not be able to withstand the extreme cringe - I am serious; I believe you would cringe hard enough to cause yourself actual harm, I know I did) and near the start she explains what she meant by harmless injustice and like... it makes some kind of sense, but I'm unsure how useful it is as a concept in general and of course in the specific it doesn't actually help her overall point even a little bit.

[@PeterEhik]

"See I hate politics in my movies but I love watching action movies where American soldiers waltz into a foreign country and kill bad guys....ooooh yeeeeah". That's what that lady sounds like

[@americanliberal09]

I'm guessing that you're talking about the right-wing crowd who'll love to say that.

[@benedictdwyer2608]

@@americanliberal09 yeah, the type mad at non-binary people in COD

[@americanliberal09]

@@benedictdwyer2608 Yeah! Agreed.

[@FrancisR420]

@@americanliberal09 right-wingers and right-wingers who call themselves Centrist

[@americanliberal09]

@@FrancisR420 Agreed. That happens a lot with these so-called centrists.

[@blushingsigh]

Let us remember two things - - Unnatural Vegan used to be a huge Ayn Rand fan. I sometimes wonder if she truly stopped being one. - That lady last year was involved in some uh kerfuffle - when she said that vegans don't need to speak up on Black Lives Matter. Damn that video was very problematic. - And I think she did a troubling video that came across as ableist ...

[@k4rapace874]

yeah, i unsubscribed because of her blm response (i didn’t know any of the other stuff, but i’m glad i do now)

[@olive4228]

Yeah same. And it pains me a lot because I liked her. She helped me a lot in balancing out my diet more, not neglecting proteins, thinking about my daily food needs and stuff. But man, her views on ... sooo many other topics are just gross and uninformed as hell

[@werelemur1138]

@@k4rapace874 Same. She could have just not said anything but she had to go and put some effort into showing her ass.

[@franciszekdo]

yeah i remember her video debunking objectivism, disappointing turn of events

[@37macherie00]

thank you for this comment. Especially the Ayn Rand thing. I wish I would've downloaded her BLM videos so I could remember what she said. She was talking about if single-issue activist organizations need to say that they support BLM - arguing that they don't. As if the subject of "do single issue activist organizations have to talk about other issues" is a black and white one, not one with a vast spectrum of greys. also like, she was operating under this belief that they have to forever talk about the intersection of BLM and their organization's focus ----- when... who was saying that? Oh right, literally no one. she was literally like, I support BLM, look at my twitter. in her follow up video, the amount of care and respect she has for the movement showed in the last 5-10(?) minutes when she suddenly talked about Animal Crossing, and that was the end of the video. ((in her regular videos, she'd end the subject, thank her patrons, and the last 5-10 min would be a nice wind-down chit chat, sometimes about Animal Crossing - when I was a subscriber, I loved that format)) like literally interrupted herself and started talking about AC. and then the video was done. I was in shock.

[@Alicehad3cats]

Oh my god yes!!! I unsubscribed from her when she kept spending time explaining why she wouldn’t make a support video for BLM on her channel even though she’s not racist instead of just making a support video. Was a major red flag to me

[@marygreenway485]

Absolutely. Before I knew about the BLM issue, she lost me when she framed owning pets as unethical. We can't go back in time and stop domestication, so what do we do? Release them into the wild? Sterilize them all so that they go extinct? How is responsible pet ownership unethical when it keeps them safe from injury and disease, provides them with a reliable food source and substantially elongates their lifespan? It's unethical by default just because they didn't technically "consent" to being pets? What?

[@kieronhoswell2722]

I would’ve thought that you love red flags.

[@O1OO1O1]

Why? Mike Rowe once made a video explaining why he didn't participate in the ice bucket challenge. It wasn't a red flag, he had a good point.

[@jaylenecanales9703]

I'm so happy other people in here are talking about that video, I watched her videos on and off for years bc I disagreed with a lot of her takes then she made that blm vid and I just cut her content out of my life

[@thepants1450]

@@O1OO1O1 what?

[@EMSpdx]

Thank you for this- I rolled my eyes and shook my head. Especially this part @24:20 onwards: factory animal farm workers HATE, HATE, HATE working at these places. Many of the people who work at these places suffer PSTD, develop depression and suffer from the effects of being exposed to concentrated animal waste. More regulation and a socialist leaning government would mean a safer and kinder work environment, a better ecosystem and a more efficient and equal way of distributing plant based protein for everyone, and not just those who can shell out loads of money for a Beyond Burger.

[@saranicole5898]

I remember unnatural vegan! She said women shouldn’t be allowed to get their tubes tied because its possible that 0.000001% of them will eventually regret that decision

[@elenapopovic2527]

Lollll, pls god just end humanity already. Were done here

[@kylewilliams8114]

I regret being born, can I prevent parents from ever having children because they might not want to exist after they exist?

[@valawee]

WTFF I can't believe some people still think like that.... also if people regret that, adopting is always an option...

[@oathboundsecrets]

Omg seriously? What?

[@GoldryBluszco]

Capitalism: I want maximum pig flesh for maximum profit Anarcho-Communism: The pig is our friend, lets share him for maximum pets

[@goobertron9099]

**UNLIMITED RADISHES AND HEADPATS FOR THE PIGS*

[@siamsasean]

"I'm not a fascist, but I sure am against those people who are against it!" Dang, where have I heard THAT before?

[@beth4928]

"I don't have an ideology" I dunno ma'am, eugenics is quite the ideology, and getting defensive when called out on it is....hm! Bad!

[@dylanmcmahon4902]

As an anti-capitalist vegan I'm hype

[@nixpix814]

Because animals were treated so nicely in all communist regimes. Wait.

[@dylanmcmahon4902]

@@nixpix814 what?

[@nixpix814]

​@@dylanmcmahon4902 Let's go slow. You hate capitalism and want it destroyed and dismantled at any cost because animals are harmed in this system. There are regimes with that exact motivation who has done what you wanted. The results was 100 million people dead and no one gave a shit about the animals either. So maybe it's time to reconsider ones priorities? Maybe voluntary trade and property rights isn't such a bad idea after all?

[@yee7218]

@@nixpix814 I don’t think they wanted an argument under their comment, but comparing deaths under “communist” countries to animal rights is absurd. Also, where did you get this 100 million number, because if it’s from the black book of communism that is known to be inflated. Also, comparing 100 million deaths under a state that claims to be communist to the BILLIONS harmed by hunger under capitalism is silly. I also personally believe an idealistic communist state would result in less excessive meat waste. Isn’t that what vegans want? Less unnecessary animal death due to companies wanting profit? No more farms where they underfeed animals just so they can make a lot of money? I don’t understand any of the arguments people are making lol.

[@dylanmcmahon4902]

@@nixpix814 my guy I said 7 words how the fuck did you build this strawman

[@Madhatter1781]

Neoliberals are right leaning. Hot take, I know, but come on, lady, neoliberals are just right leaning. Capitalism is right wing, neoliberalism is *all about* capitalism, therefore is right leaning.

[@Tacklepig]

...that's not a hot take? Everyone knows that. All of liberalism is right leaning. The only reason people assume different is because the US has a cultural hegemony in (english language) online discussions, and there is literally no left wing politics going on in the US.

[@Madhatter1781]

@@Tacklepig Sorry, apparently "Hot take, I know" didn't convey the sarcasm very well, but it was there to be sure.

[@Madhatter1781]

@Jack-a-Lopium I'd argue that PragerU does try to go for a false sense of diversity, with speakers like Candace Owens and whatnot. Lots of old men yes, but they could certainly take her into the fold

[@aslamjm]

How capitalism is right wing? Right wing mindset ( feudalism and monarchy) is older than capitalism. Capitalism and new age business are breaking social the structure. A black millionaire is a revolutionary position

[@WraithReaper09]

@@aslamjm Because Capitalism can not exist without exploitation and it runs on the same hierarchy that Feudalism and Monachism runs on. Not that hard to see.

[@dustind4694]

"Injustice is not harm" Welp I'm out, I'm opting out of the human species, I am now a potato.

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

Be careful with that declaration she is a vegan and potatoes are fair game to eat.

[@Chris-qb8pl]

@@FakeSchrodingersCat some people have a vore fetish, lol

[@andreasanders7322]

She has a response video up where she avoids talking about TS's critiques at all but instead says the sentence "market socialism is not anti-capitalist" in a smug tone. She is insane.

[@davidtaylor142]

Her entire personality is just assuming she's right because she's smart and then never doing any research

[@nataschavisser573]

A quarter of children in my capitalist country are stunted and there are multiple people begging for food and money at each traffic intersection. I would prefer "socialist" bread lines to this.

[@nzuckman]

We already have bread.... Car-avans in Texas

[@worldangel7]

this woman literally just reads google definitions of things and then rattles off poorly researched and bad opinions why does anyone care what she has to say?

[@lpsmadgirl23]

Bc the only thing she is actually knowledgeable abt is veganism, she has helped a lot of ppl switch to veganism, and she use to go after vegans who promoted harmful ways of thinking which I’m unsure she does anymore seeing as she goes out of her way to defend the vegan teacher, someone who said that all black people should be vegan bc black people were treated like animals so we should know it’s wrong

[@ItsTumbleTime]

It’s Onision-level argument skills. Like literally, that’s what he used to do in his videos.

[@traitwopronounwncethess2566]

all of her education comes from highschool level propaganda and first page google definitions

[@prnightsteel]

she argues simultaneously that we have to stick to capitalism because without any alternatives we'd be screwed, but is also fervently against trying any alternatives. Ok...

[@sjs9698]

haven't you heard? there are NO alternatives capitalists are fekkin eejits.

[@knishofdeath]

As someone who has been vegan and an anti-capitalist for like 24 years, I thought the pro capitalist argument was cringe

[@zalafinari]

Humans make it hard to be human sometimes in general.

[@toppersundquist]

To paraphrase the old classic, "95% of humans give the rest a bad name."

[@scottsbarbarossalogic3665]

Reject humanity; become the cat nongender-specific person

[@aqueercommunist]

@@scottsbarbarossalogic3665 voidpunk gang

[@sourgreendolly7685]

@@scottsbarbarossalogic3665 Way ahead of you, buddy!

[@noireisbest6786]

@@scottsbarbarossalogic3665 That sounds like fun, just vibing with some fellow catpeople online.

[@tiffanyferg]

this vid is a banger, thank you

[@gmc5618]

Incredible to see you here!!

[@beetljam792]

was not expecting this crossover

[@saraangel6696]

you brought me here with your ig stories, ty

[@awkwardnerd.]

Wait you're here 😁😁😁

[@dialiaga]

Wait, is a crossover gonna happen?!

[@Bloomingtide]

She is so pretentious and self-righteous in her wrongness, omg.

[@victoriagrace5134]

What's worse is that she often claims to do her research and correct herself when she's wrong. Clearly this has been shown to not be the case now lol

[@sunsundks3891]

@@victoriagrace5134 Hey,maybe she'll correct herself soon

[@Ewr42]

@@victoriagrace5134 she used to do that, at least on veganism and diet stuff, like why milk isn't deadly, gluten is only bad for celiacs, banana diets are bad, backyard eggs are ethical and rice is about just as bad as meat for the environment She should've just stuck to those topics instead of going out of her niche topics to show her stupidly simplistic political views based off of hearsay and personal opinions And I used to trust her as a based and woke source of information about veganism. But how the fuck did she remain blind to how capitalism makes veganism elitist?? But capitalism will make poor people rich so they can buy impossible burgers everyday, right? Wait, increasing poor people's buying power is closer to social-what????

[@Alex-ph5ir]

Unnatural Vegan also did a whole "all lives matter" type thing after the George Floyd protests. I think there was at least a video and a community post, but I'm too lazy to look it back up. In any case, she got a lot of criticism and then doubled down. She has a true gift for sh*tty takes

[@artemkanarchist]

Solidarity from a russian vegan anarcho-communist!❤️🖤

[@ashtons8626]

*based*

[@johnparsons9294]

Oof, and I thought being vegetarian was hard in Russia

[@artemkanarchist]

John Parsons well, it used to be so half a decade ago, but these days local vegan products are becoming more available. I for instance buy seitan and tofu from an actual anarchist commune - it’s really affordable and tasty. But the government oppress and incarcerate anarchists in Russia so it’s a lot easier to be a vegan than to be an anarchist here 😂🤔😢

[@daedreaming6267]

@@ashtons8626 and breadpilled

[@johnparsons9294]

@@artemkanarchist Well I'm glad to hear the veganism bit has improved at least! I found vegetarianism difficult there, but that was some years back (I think the last time I was there was 2012.) And yes, incredibly sorry for the politics you have to live under, it SUCKS. Lots of things and places and people I miss when it comes to Russia, but especially having come out as trans and started transitioning, I don't know that I'll ever go back

[@mimmikibilly]

I peaced out from her channel when she said (I don't fully remember what her point was) that she doesn't have to fight for black people's rights because she's fighting for animal rights or something like that, as if she didn't talk about feminism and other social issues on her channel before. Vegan doesn't equal good.

[@SJK1123]

in her most recent video she agreed with the perspective that activists who don't incorporate veganism into their activism are hypocrites...... meanwhile shes made 2 videos trying to explain why she shouldn't have to talk about BLM as a vegan

[@mimmikibilly]

@@SJK1123 Yeah I know she made 2 of those. That's disappointing. She sounds smart but at this point I have some second thoughts.

[@LazuliScarab]

15:24 lady, you are standing in a burning building, arguing that it is illogical to leave because the fire might be outside too.

[@dreamof_me]

She’s come out with a lot of problematic stances in recent years, from her nearly pro-incel tweets, her video on BLM, and now this

[@wschippr1]

Oh it got worse, she said anti-vegan sentiments is as bad as homophobia, defended a person who said coming out as queer is selfish, and said that being gay is a choice (well that acting on being gay is a choice, ya know, the something homophobes say). And the when people got angry, said they were just too emotional.

[@happytofu5]

@@wschippr1 yuck, I totally missed those videos of her... really sad, I used to look up to her :(

[@jdmmg4904]

what were her nearly pro-incel tweets? i missed those...

[@SpaceWolf96]

@@jdmmg4904 I assume the comment refers to her "cheating" tweets but I'm not sure, of so there is a whole video about it on her channel to further explain her point, but basically she said women can't really get angry at their partners for cheating if they "withhold" sex for them for long periods of time because it's a physical and emotional need.

[@jdmmg4904]

@@SpaceWolf96 Thanks :)

[@TheRenaSystem]

ThinkGoo actually talking about veganism? Thanks BrainSlop

[@celanba]

Never thought I'd see the day

[@Skeleton-bs7zy]

nice

[@aislingbones1854]

Regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, someone claiming to "not have" or "not believe in" any ideology is a huge red flag. They're telling you that either A) "I am a grifter trying to pretend my ideology is objective fact." or B) "I have been grifted into believing someone else's ideology is objective fact."

[@americanliberal09]

But it is a fact that not everyone has an ideology, because all ideologies regardless of their forms are just artificial constructs. And it is the exact same thing with religions, too. So, therefore there is nothing wrong with some people who don't wanna be classified with any particular ideology. It's not like people just wake up one day, and just discover the fact they're this particular "ism", though.

[@yoissy]

@@americanliberal09 an ideology is just a collection of beliefs.the names and grouping are artificially constructed, but even if you don't have a name for your beliefs,they are still an ideology

[@americanliberal09]

@@yoissy Yeah. I can see that, dude. "but even if you don't have a name for your beliefs,they are still an ideology" Nope. Having no name for it doesn't count as an ideology. In order for something to be classified as an ideology. It has to be an organized system of doctrines, principles, and tenants. So do you understand my point?

[@yoissy]

@@americanliberal09 I do, but I do think most people do have a some sort of principles which guide their beliefs, whether or not they realize it if you want to net call that an ideology because they don't recognize it as one that's ok, but I think the main point still stands

[@americanliberal09]

@@yoissy So you wanna believe in something that's not there, right? I really hate to break it to you, dude. But not everybody has any principles to live by. So, therefore, it's really possible for most people to live their lives without a need for an ideology, though.

[@miguelmartin901]

This woman: "Socialism is scary" Green anarchists: "Eat your greens syndie boyyyyyy...!!!"

[@nico6143]

*Green* Anarchists? Jesus, how many flavors of Anarchism are there!? What do Green Anarchists believe in?

[@KatieTheDev]

@@nico6143 anarchists, but more environment? Idk, isn't socialism inherently environmentalist?

[@nico6143]

@@KatieTheDev I mean, not inherently but I could see the same thought processes being used in such a way. I'm a liberal, but as I understand it if socialism actually managed to "go off", and Emperor of Antifa Thought Slime were to hit the socialism button, then there would be environmental benefit in the form of less shit being made because the incentive to over produce wouldn't be a thing anymore. My main concern is if the system is practical IRL, and what the consequences of abandoning captialism would be. Honestly, I'm just here because I'm a politics nerd

[@KatieTheDev]

@@nico6143 no, it's inherent. Under socialism, there is no incentive to be cheap about things. When the state controls the means of production democratically with the workers, there is no reason to continue pollution. There is, however, incentive to keep the environment healthy. There is no real cost to it, and climate change is dangerous. Therefore, it is a necessity that socialism be environmentalist. Socialism is for the workers. Environmentalism keeps the workers healthy and happy. We must be environmentalist to survive. Pollution is a mistake caused my capitalism. Socialism is the cure.

[@KatieTheDev]

@@nico6143 as for consequences of abandoning capitalism, there are no real negatives. The only ones who will be unhappy with it are the bourgeoisie. They will lose power. All workers will be equal. The power imbalance caused by capitalism will be gone, and we will have true, proletarian democracy. What the US has is bourgeoisie democracy. Under proletarian democracy, the workers control everything. There is no money involved in making decisions. There is no lobbying. Only the needs of the workers. That is what we care about.

[@christianj5950]

as a european i laughed out loud at her definition of neoliberalism. pro-welfare spending. lmao.

[@consentclub8431]

Margaret Thatcher is rolling in her grave

[@jellokween1680]

Just shows her ignorance

[@shadowcween7890]

Neoliberalism is just a fancy term for one who believes in (The new idea of) Free-Market Capitalism®

[@LeBonkJordan]

@@consentclub8431 her piss-soaked grave

[@Valaron748]

Time for some of that vegan beef, seriously though UV is a bad take factory, and this is coming from another vegan.

[@kylechristophermiller8742]

I second that

[@AveryCreates]

I can't stand her. I've refused to give her a single view for years now. I just get my secondhand embarassment fix by watching other vegans tear her thoughts apart.

[@scootypoot3205]

I've been watching her for a little over a year now and the more I watch her the less intelligent I find her to be.

[@naturalburial8375]

@@kohhna I unsuscribed a while ago because of her ableism. Edit : she isn't transphobic at least but still racist and ableist so yeah

[@enaidealukal4105]

some people are just extremely talented and well-practiced at... pure idiocy

[@Chris_Tinacan]

> Be Thoughtslime > Claim to be vegan > Shoot fish in a barrell for half an hour

[@mattpluzhnikov519]

I hereby nominate this for some sort of Underappreciated Comment/Rapid-fire punchline delivery award! 🤣😂🤣😂

[@gaelanmccann324]

Maybe Thoughtslime is one of those vegans who eat oysters because they believe animals without a central nervous systems can't meaningfully experience pain. I.e. Unnatural vegan might be too dumb to feel pain.

[@howl9955]

LMFAO

[@HuckleberryHim]

> Claim to be vegan > Completely excuse all abuse and exploitation of animals if the person who does it doesn't have European ancestry Ah, of course, veganism. The ideology that says only white people are capable of causing harm, indeed.

[@NaomiALJ]

@@HuckleberryHim papa he gave good reasons as to why specifically indigenous communities - not all people who aren't European - should be left the hell alone. Sure, we can feel that ideally everyone would be vegan, but its super shitty to target these communities who've experienced an incredible amount of violence already vs, idk, factory farming which is torturing millions of animals and destroying the planet?

[@ahcnp2]

So I THINK(?) her argument about "socialism just makes it a choice" is that she thinks the important part of Veganism isn't the moral choice to not consume animal products to reduce suffering, but that you're doing a boycott. It being a boycott is the important thing, so if you aren't reducing the income of a guy who is rich from selling hamburgers, you aren't doing veganism, and if you're anticapitalist, you're just reducing all rich guy incomes. We need to control people with money, so that by everyone boycotting the right things, the richest person will also be the most moral, non-cancelled person. Which is just the most backwards crazypants take but also the only reading that seems to have any kind of flow If-Then logic?

[@Tacklepig]

The thing is, there isn't a moral choice there even WITH capitalism, if you understand how the system actually works. You literally can't choose not to participate in the system, unless you live self-sufficiently in the woods. The interesting thing is, there actually IS a contradiction between veganism and anti-capitalist thinking (kind of. Like it's not a big deal), but it's the exact opposite of what she's saying. Basically all (legitimate) animal rights positions ARE inherently criticisms of capitalism, and thus already addressed within anti-capitalist thinking. If you're a vegan, you basically have to be anti-capitalist by default (unless you're really dumb and don't understand your own position), making the label of "vegan" itself just seem like a very, very pretentious dietary choice. Like she's right that there's something there that should give you food for thought, but it's actually MORE anti-capitalist.

[@Spamhard]

It still just makes no sense when the majority of packaged vegan products are still unethical in how they're produced, packaged, marketed and shipped. Yes, one involves the death of animals and the other doesn't, but the capitalist side of it will always involve exploitation of workers, the ruining of land and environment, and mass production. Plus often a shift load of unnecessary plastics which go back into the environment and kill millions of wildlife anyway. It's definitely some backwards logic, for sure.

[@abcdisaster]

She's also made very... white comparisons about racism.

[@diegoarmando5489]

The Price is Right loser horn kept playing through my head everytime I heard that "definition" of neoliberalism.

[@Juice1300]

Bweow bwo babwoooooow

[@dontnoable]

This could have been effective for jarring us into seeing beyond the hegemonic idea of capitalism running through her takes as we behold them!

[@AtomicBananaPress]

I'm just a stupid meat eater, but did she just make the "You can't be moral without religion" argument with veganism and capitalism?

[@mimmikibilly]

You're not stupid, you just have your life to live. Maybe one day (if you can afford it in more than one way and if it doesn't harm your health) you'll manage to change your meat supplier if it's currently coming from massive production or you'll start your journey towards a meat-free diet, but it's not my place to say that. That is something that you must want to achieve yourself. I wish we could all be at least vegetarian, but I understand that it's impossible for a number of factors. Scientists are developing alternatives to butchered meat and I think it's a great compromise for everyone, since most people don't like to know that their dish suffered before being made. Please don't feel attacked by the last sentence. I mean well.

[@AtomicBananaPress]

@@mimmikibilly thanks for taking the time to compose this response. I definitely try to source what I eat as humanely as possible, but yeah, it's a struggle getting over my baser instincts. Luckily I have a few friends who have been vegetarian for a number of years that I can look to for advice when I make the plunge, I never thought I would even consider it, but it's definitely becoming more and more of a direction I'm thinking of taking.

[@tavrosnitram]

@@mimmikibilly i dont eat vegan (despite an arguable ability to) because i dont personally buy into the idea that the supermarkets which buy the products will actually buy any less of it if they stop getting my order of a few pounds (for about 5 people) of beef a week. im of the mindset that they have quotas to fill and will simply throw out whatever isnt bought, like they literally already do. so it seems silly to me to forfeit personal pleasure to try and fail to reduce the profit of meat industry. theyve already profited from what theyve done. whats the argument for stopping consumption of meat? it kind of seems to me like a drawn out version of an "i think we should improve the meat industry somewhat" "yet you eat meat! curious. i am very intelligent" meme. not to say you act like that of course but thats just my perception of the arguments ive been given. id appreciate comradely input.

[@Eon2641]

@@tavrosnitram I get where you're coming from, but I'd just like to point out that vegans don't think they are personally hurting a companies pocketbook enough to change their minds. They think that enough people going vegan will. Enough people not buying animal products definitely would incentivize companies to reduce the amount they stock, and they would therefore profit less from animal exploitation. Like, their order sheet isn't written in stone and passed down from a higher power, they (or rather, an algorithm) make an educated guess at how much they would sell in a given time period based on statistics like weekly sales figures. Now it's true that they order more than they need, but only enough to cover potential outliers. Speaking as someone who's done orders and stocked shelves for a living I can attest to that personally. Now, you can make the personal choice to not be vegan for a whole bunch of reasons (I'm not vegan either) but when it comes to the logic behind veganism discouraging companies from producing animal products, it's unassailable.

[@TheRainstorm97]

@@tavrosnitram Yes it's about you *and* all your friends and family choosing to buy a few pounds less of beef a week, adding up to a big loss, and simultaneously buying more produce or specifically vegan alternatives, and the demand shifts as a whole in the market so that smart investors will ultimately be the ones changing the industry. In the short term there probably will be a lot of waste of meat (as you pointed out, this does already happen) but that short term increase of waste is just because the industry is still barreling in the same direction and the meat was already processed and the cows to be slaughtered afterwards to make more meat have already been born. Once it changes there will eventually be a net decrease of meat produced in total, and the idea is that the waste is worth it for all the future benefits. This is of course all in a capitalist system still. I just want to also say that, as I'm not vegetarian (health + financial reasons) I eat as little meat as possible. Small things like Meatless Mondays are already making a big change in our social consciousness and vegan alternatives are becoming more popular by the day. You don't have to be fully vegan to do some good. Whatever you cut out or source ethically still matters. That said, there are clearly still some vegans who are living their life as the "I am very intelligent" meme. I'm seeing that as it becomes easier to be vegan and less unusual, there are fewer outspoken self-righteous vegans yammering about how chicken farming is the biggest holocaust. So there's another reason to eat less meat...

[@michaelsanophale7265]

Somebody start the countdown to UV's inevitable pivot into ecofascism.

[@mimmikibilly]

I hope not, but who knows? Maybe she'll learn after a while.

[@celanba]

She's been called out multiple times, with a lot of suggestions for how to improve from multiple people, and she refuses to, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[@noemibolivar5945]

I mean, once you're at the point where aborting potentially disabled fetuses seems good to you, you're basically already there. She probably just hasn't realized it for herself yet.

[@naturalburial8375]

With her ableist and racist takes she's already half-way there

[@Eon2641]

@@noemibolivar5945 Not surprising, considering she hasn't figured out she's a capitalist.

[@radisk5973]

Everybody who's making a bad point always starts by completely misunderstanding what neoliberalism is lol.

[@EmeraldLavigne]

Ah, yes, noted fans of government spending and social safety nets, Shuffleshuffleshuffle Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Regan.

[@AnnDVine]

veganism depends on capitalism in the same way that environmentalism depends on deforestation

[@DiMagnolia]

YES. WELL SAID.

[@shawnhornett]

Without capitalism you eat any damn thing you find. 🤣🤣🤣

[@rethinkingeconomics7349]

Socialism also depends on capitalism. Capitalism begets socialism. Nobody’s going to want to get beyond capitalism if there is no capitalism.

[@yorkshiremgtow1773]

@@shawnhornett 'Without capitalism you eat any damn thing you find'- that is, if there is anything after you've spent time hunting around for it. With Capitalism, you are allowed to grow your own food. Without it, you can't.

[@shawnhornett]

@@yorkshiremgtow1773 Exactly. "Any damn thing you find" meaning grass , leather, bugs, pets,

[@sweetpeacampbell3413]

capitalist realism really is such a hurdle, like how stunted is the social imagination of the defenders of capitalism.

[@Bluecho4]

To be fair, they are the victims of generations of propaganda by Capitalism. Forgive them, they know not what they do. (They're still dumb, though, and need to be called out on their dumb opinions).

[@raycearcher5794]

Also, a lot of people seem to be confused about the difference between capitalism and capitalization, and arrive at the conclusion that if we need capitalization (which we might) we therefor also need capitalISM (which we don't).

[@zeeenno]

“WE CAN’T TRY ECONOMIC SYSTEMS WE HAVE’NT TRIED, GUYS!!!”

[@corhydron111]

That video where she says having, feeding or helping cats in any way is unethical because they are carnivores still lives in my head.

[@pond666]

wtf??? really???

[@corhydron111]

yeah. in her tiger king video she repeated all of that too. she said supporting carnivorous species causes more death. like I don't know what she thinks the ideal outcome is in this situation. global caticide?

[@pond666]

@@corhydron111 what the hell??? isn't veganism supposed to be ethical precisely BECAUSE it's possible for people to not eat meat, CONTRARY to other species??? lmaooooo

[@ONeill01]

She is a consequentialist, taking the logical extent of anti-animal deaths, this is not veganism, it doesnt take the value and suffering of the carnivorous animals in question

[@Eon2641]

@@ONeill01 Okay but... if you think about that position for more than three consecutive seconds, you realize it leads directly to an overpopulation crisis and far, far more death than just keeping a healthy population of predators? How does she live like this?

[@kellyloganme]

Not joking: "Is anti-capitalism anti-vegan?" was cut off by an ad for a Wendy's baconator. Tied to the phrase "anti-vegan" maybe?

[@stinkywizzleteets4740]

The irony is palpable.

[@spurgo]

OMG! I unfollowed her because she tought intersectionality was harming the "vegan movement". Thanks for sharing!!!

[@errohaze2683]

That's such a dumb take... intersectionalism would only build the vegan movement in my opinion. If you isolate yourself from every other civil rights struggle, you're not gonna have a lot of allies!

[@wl415]

As a vegan it pisses me off how people who claim to value all sentient lives couldn’t care less about humans lives. Some of them are extremely out of touch it’s like I’m constantly having arguments with people about social justice.

[@ben1147]

Human beings are scummy, doesn’t mean I don’t support social justice

[@TaraMooknee]

Yep I'm watching this a second time GIMME THAT JUICE

[@annesophie22]

Tara, when I see your comments in a youtube video, I always feel validated in my viewing choices. (also, big fan of your channel! and of the cow!)

[@noodlez9825]

fancy seeing you here tara! :0 i love your channel btw!

[@vxx363]

omg i love your channel sm

[@TheDiamondNet]

Hey! You're here! I just watched one of your videos a minute ago. I love your vids, and I'm glad you're blowing up!

[@annabethwashere]

omg hey queen

[@autolycuse2554]

4:10 To be fair, her 1/4 of a million subscribers seem to be turning on her. All of her videos on social issues tend to get massive ammounts of dislikes.

[@thepants1450]

She lost over 1k of followers for this vid I think

[@O1OO1O1]

It's not turning, it's feedback. That's the system working.

[@wendyheatherwood]

Yeah, I was an occasional viewer of hers (I missed her comments about BLM) but between this, her defence of That Vegan Teacher and her monogamy video I'm out.

[@miaumiau679]

listen, i dont really like zizek but she's literally the definition of ''pure ideology'' lol

[@alexscriabin]

zizek himself is pure ideology when he whines about "the transsexual ideology".

[@Scribe]

@@alexscriabin *sniff*

[@schonlingg.wunderbar2985]

@@alexscriabin Kill your heroes, I guess ...

[@glitch373]

Alexander Scriabin mind sharing where he says such things? I do like zizek but I don't think I could continue to if he is anti-trans. From my understanding though his controversy on the subject is more about how he thinks the right wins if we fight them on identity politics, and that instead we should focus on economics. Of course the response to that is why not both, but I guess it's a critique of twitter activists who are ignorant of lefty economics.

[@Scribe]

@@glitch373 The anti-idpol argument is inherently flawed. It's just repackaged class reductionism. Any movement that caters to some marginalized people while excluding others is doomed to fail. A truly intersectional approach needs to look at where class, race, gender identity, sexuality, etc converge in order to improve everybody's material conditions.

[@fi-aaa-na]

_me, a non-vegan, settling in to watch a half-hour video of vegan discourse_

[@thefrantasticmissfine]

"Without Capitalism, being vegan would just be a dietary choice!" Yes

[@shelbypowell9919]

As would staying home with one’s family, taking up a hobby, or adapting new skills to improve the quality of ones work

[@anarchopal481]

@@shelbypowell9919 why would you eat your family you monster

[@cloudthief8918]

Wdym? Wouldn't it still be a moral choice if animals are unnecessarily being killed?

[@davidpeppers551]

@@shelbypowell9919 We of course could say everything is a matter of choice. Under a dictatorship, a tyrannical boss or whatever, we all still have choice. The freedom we have in making these choices without grievous harm comming upon us differs greatly from situation to situation. A child with an authoritarian parent can do anything they want also, but do they even know they have a choise at two, at three, five, ten, whenever? Not all "choice" is equal, nor would all "choice" actually be considered choice by those involved. Saying everyone has choice is also an arguement which many people use to absolve themselves from any responsibility for their own actions, especially when those actions involve other people.

[@sayso2135]

Not really. I wouldn't buy clothes made of skins or other things containing animal products for the same reason, it's not just a diet for many vegans. For many vegans, myself included, it's an ideology of opposition to exploitation and killing of animals.

[@ZijnShayatanica]

When she said neoliberals believe in a "welfare state" & having a social safety net, my soul cringed out of my body & I never want to associate with a vegetable ever again. I had to actually pause the video for several minutes just to get my bearings before continuing. 😌

[@henkhenk4396]

Neoliberals believe in a welfare state like christians believe in sin, they acknowledge it's existance and really want to get rid of it

[@ZijnShayatanica]

@@henkhenk4396 Sounds about right!! 😆🤣

[@Tacklepig]

A lot of neoliberals DO believe in social safety nets, just very heavily means tested ones. Or at least they pretend to. You gotta see that in a lot of countries with "normal" political systems (read: not the US), neoliberals infiltrate basically all political parties. In europe you get weird shit like neolibs running as candidates for socdem parties (honestly, one of those basically ruined german politics in the 90s...Gerhard Schröder, if the name is somehow recognisable internationally. That guy did what the nazis never managed and killed german social democracy)

[@ZijnShayatanica]

@@Tacklepig Good point. I think the key is that they never disclose at what point there's been enough evidence for their effectiveness, thereby they can continue to say it could never work. Lolol 😬

[@diegosanchez894]

"this pont is hotlly debated among leftists", yeah, like everything else.

[@yoosh9034]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

You are completely wrong we lefties are of a single mind on.. um wait no um I had something for this. Anyway leftists don't just endlessly debate everything and certainly do not call out each other on minor doctrinal failings incessantly nor do any of us demand levels of ideological purity and declare our specific and narrow definition of leftist as the only true form. And I denounce you as a crypto liberal who is even worse then Biden for even suggesting this./s

[@reneelucero2923]

as an ancom...true

[@chironchangnoi]

@@yoosh9034 well played

[@AD-qq9bk]

@@FakeSchrodingersCat I'm dying!😂

[@davidpaddon4529]

"I can support the exploitation of humans but i draw the line at animals"

[@gracebates3336]

In a nut shell

[@victoriagrace5134]

I'm not kidding that's so close to what she says. She once defended fast fashion because "it's better than the other jobs those people would have".

[@seekingabsolution1907]

@@victoriagrace5134 has she never thought "these animals have access to regular food and Healthcare, they would never survive in such large numbers without us" was an equivalent stupid argument that could be made against vegans?

[@sealogic4552]

@@victoriagrace5134I know I’m necroing an ancient comment, but holy shit is that some Scrooge shit right there