There's A Problem With Using Samples

Howdy! Today I want to talk about the weird nature of sampling, modern music creation, and how one artist became labeled as a thief.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Soundgym
0:22 Video Start
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[@VenusTheory]

Thank god this video is finally done - I've spent the last 5 days editing and putting this all together! 😅 What do you make of the whole situation? (REMEMBER: we're here to discuss the track similarities, not personally attack NotLö) 📢 Soundgym ► soundgym.co/?aff=9058

[@sentimentaltrash]

Watched it and loved especially Benn Jordan’s take of robbing yourself of that joy and instead creating anxiety. I appreciate the nuance take & video! Im more then ok with people using samples; especially to learn from, i also think it’s cool how people can make music in areas that they aren’t so good at; like I’m pretty ok with the music side of things but suck at drums; so drum samples have been amazing - vice verse when someone is new to theory! What I very much dislike about this situation is the submitting it to labels with something that isn’t really your work, failing to take accountability & then mentioning it’s hard being a women (yet so many of us wouldn’t think to do this). I’ve got so many thoughts about this. I think if you are booking yourself as a professional, teaching people production, submitting to labels I do think you should personally hold yourself to a higher standard then that of beginner.

[@SwiftDreamer]

I think using loops can be a great tool sparingly, but if your whole track is a bunch of loops coming from the same source material, how fun is that? Where is your creativity?

[@darkusprodtv]

Your attention to quantify this situation from different points of views with that chill PS4 Home Screen music is very much appreciated and respected 🙏🏿

[@markleonard8514]

750 tracks released so far this year. 750. So, here is how I deal with making my samples unique: I have a dedicated chain in my mixer that I work into. That is also how I have released 750 tracks so far this year. I use Loopmasters and I generally just run with a combo of free files and my library. I have logs. No one using those samples will have anywhere near the same output as I do. I'm confident. -switchMark

[@sam0x2b]

​@@SwiftDreamer maybe there is no creativity because some thing called money was of interest and it somehow became more important than music over the course of the history?..

[@Hardcrafter2807]

When it comes to the royalty-free samples and loops I have, I generally tend to exclusively use one-shots, or percussion loops that can just sit in the background of the mix as extra ear candy. I try to write the chords and melodies myself, despite being poor in music theory lol

[@davecavan983]

Same criteria. One shots, percussion loops (usually tops, I don't like kick drums in my drum loop samples), and the occasional VERY changed vocal sample/chop.

[@ptkelly80]

A lot of legendary musicians never had formal theory training, and just because someone went to a conservatory, it doesn’t mean that their music will be memorable.

[@Bronwyn031]

No music theory experience my friend? Well, let me introduce you to our Lord and Savior... SCALER 2. Scaler 2 is literally the "Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A and Start" of music production. Look into it.

[@maximustheproducer]

You are not poor in music theory just trust your feelings! You got this! Trust!

[@-pauI-]

everyone is coping, you need to know music theory, there will be many times you can hear what you need to write next in the progression but can't because you have no idea what the chord is and bruteforcing it is incredibly time consuming to the point you will get sick of the track.

[@Skrenja]

The main melody in A$AP Rocky's "Praise Da Lord" is a default Logic midi loop called "Andean Stroll Panpipe 02." They didn't change it at all. 😂

[@kingofdjembe]

And there are a lot more like that. I used to have a list of "famous" Apple loops. Rihanna, Usher, etc.

[@clubdoompsx]

Idk why... But that makes me love that song even more now 😂

[@albertostang]

As a pro producer, I think using samples and splice packs in your production is valid. These packs provide unique sounds that can spark ideas, and can be manipulated, chopped, transposed, to blend seamlessly with your own style and vision of a song. In fact, lots of big producers use splice. However, it is important to note that using multiple samples from a single pack to recreate the pack's demo is not the wise approach. As with any tool or technique, it is not the tool itself that causes issues, but rather how it is used.

[@wapbamboogie7213]

Literally the only sensible take in the comments.

[@blairmalott3628]

FULLY AGRREE

[@thesundrinker]

I agree. It's also a good way to learn how to make sounds. I've been inspired to create things from loops that I just wasn't getting with say a particular one. It's also a good way to lean into HOW to arrange a song, how should my stuff sound. Any system will be abused. Nothing is purely original and lot of people have made a ton of money of other people's money songs and in the end get praised for it. Depends on how popular the thief is. I see it sort of like going to the grocery for a steak. Sure I can raise a cow, butcher it, process it and eventually get a steak out of it but is it worth it? Sometimes, but not always. They are time constraints to life and some people aren't even looking to make a buck but a fun beat.

[@thomasgustafsson7962]

I also think using samples is valid for inspiration. But when you alter them in some way by chopping, stretching, reversing or putting on some effects at least you put your own touch on them. Or use a sample, build a track around it and them remove the sample and you have your own track inspired by a sample. From an artistic perspective I always want to make some change the samples i use except for drum samples. I think the biggest problem here is also that NotLö has done this several times in a systematic way. Could be money or could be because of a dream of standing on stage and wanting to do it without having to pay her dues. It takes some time to learn to produce quality music.

[@nuh-uhbro765]

I’m glad there’s a thread her of people with a decent IQ. It’s ironic how people try to be “a better producer than you” by wearing different hats that have nothing to do with producing. Maybe you are a better sound designer, or a better musician, but you’re not a better producer than anybody if your beats still sound like crap.

[@theriguyayylmao3761]

This coming out right before Scaring the Hoes is great because that album serves as a tremendous example of how samples can be used in an incredibly creative way totally counter to the whole NotLö issue.

[@ashtmslf2315]

MY MILKSHAKE BRINGS ALL THE BOYS TO THE YARD

[@MrMarcLaflamme]

NotLo used the samples in the Lego set to build the track shown in the instructions. While this is possible, the whole point is to use the samples in your own creation. Benn said it right - while the song was created, the feeling of creation wasn't there. Building something from instructions is cool and the result is pleasing, but nothing beats the feeling of making something your own.

[@user-kl1vy3wo4k]

I don’t the she built anything. She literally took the demo track and released it.

[@Sharpened_Spoon]

And you’re supposed to use legos from different sets to make your own unique constructions. True artistry comes from seeing beyond the bounds of the set provided and knowing which parts of different collections work well together.

[@eijffelbridge]

I myself hate using loops, because of the reason you mentioned. It lacks the joy of creating something of yourself.

[@c31979839]

It's like doing a paint-by-numbers, then trying to sell it to other as an original piece.

[@Iyamcole]

well said

[@quarmat]

Well this is my story: fell in love with French House in the late 90s/early 00s, loved the Daft Punk flipping samples technique. But I did not want to use others material. So I write my loops, sample and flip'em. If I hear - say - an old Disco brass+drum fill i'd like to use in a track of mine, I just try my best to recreate something very similar but not quite the same, neither in melody nor sound. I end up learning a lot in music production of genres that are not my own, learn a lot in sound design, and most of all I can make any micro adjustments to the very source of my sample if I need to. Time consuming? oh yes. Quite technical? mostly yes. Incredibly satisfying? hell yes.

[@foodstampz]

Wait..how do you do the d.p. sample flipping technique ? Is there a video ?

[@nospacesWFT]

This is something I've given thought to in a similar way. Daft Punk's sampling endeavors also ran into the issue of cultural theft/appropriation from funk and disco pioneered or performed by Black American musicians; so writing an original piece of music in those styles and bouncing it to audio to then manipulate it in a French house track would be challenging, but rewarding.

[@made.online2149]

@@nospacesWFT By this metric, how is imitating a style for your own gain any less appropriative than sampling it? Seems more a glorification of intellectual property laws than any sort of real stance on justice.

[@made.online2149]

It's a fun approach and I've been doing it with a lot of flavorful Playbox sequences I created. But resampling self-made material does not possess the same magic that flipping beloved tracks does. It just feels like a capitulation to the money machine. Everything is a remix and sampling should be available to all, not just the label-backed rich.

[@wildnugget1675]

This. One of the best ways to do it is listen to something you enjoy and then try to recreate it with different sounds, or tweak it slightly. Don't just 1:1

[@GetInTheRing777]

The spirit of Hip Hop is needed in this analysis. The art of sampling is to create something new from what already is. Unfortunately for NotLo they got caught in that space between stealing and transforming.

[@normannutbar424]

I once found a synth patch called ‘Zombie Hyperdrive’ in an arturia preset pack. I fell in love with it and wrote an entire song around it. I was half way through the song when I learned that I was basically remaking a song called red eyes. I ended up contacting the original artist and releasing it as a cover, with his permission.

[@thedevilsadvocate5210]

how much does it sound like red eyes

[@normannutbar424]

@@thedevilsadvocate5210 I had never heard Red Eyes at the time, but it was based around the same synth arp, so it was far too close to call it a different song. It was only really the bass line and guitar solo that was different. It’s now a note-for-note cover. It’s on the music platforms as OverClone, Red Eyes.

[@thedevilsadvocate5210]

@@normannutbar424 What about the rest of your songs? More packs. It all sounds good. I would think a lot of people use samples from packs

[@normannutbar424]

@@thedevilsadvocate5210 the rest of the songs are all very unlike RedEyes. They’re all early 2000s original metal songs. It’s my old band from when I was a teenager. No vocals though and pretty crap really. I’m just pleased to have it immortalized on the streaming platforms.

[@romeoraymond]

Is that the Thomas Azier song ? 😭😭😭@@normannutbar424

[@prodbyboba]

As a hip hop producer, sampling is something I experience a lot. I’m always leery to use melody loops without much variation as I want my product to sound different than someone else’s. However, to outright say “sampling bad, make your own stuff” is just not true. From the amazing sampling skills of J dilla, 9th wonder, and the Alchemist, to simple flips like the Cymatics loop from Miss the Rage, I think too nitty gritty ruins some of the fun of it. There is no way J Cole is going to make a whole soul album just to chop it up for his actual album to claim he made it by himself. Make stuff to make stuff, but be honest where you got it from. Push yourself creatively, but have fun as well.

[@amrenmurray]

This. I think a lot of the mess that we seem to experience with sampling could be avoided with producers at every level just being honest. Reaching out to a producer or creator and asking if I can sample something of theirs has been nerve wracking, but it saves a lot of heart ache and guilt later on. I haven't gotten into anything particularly complicated, but I have written an apology letter...😬😓 Doing things right the first time is way more fun and exciting.

[@narvi5779]

One of my favorite artists who I follow on Instagram simply just posted a video of someone grabbing a sample and then destroying it in a grain delay with automated parameters and whatnot and the entire video took about 10 seconds to end. I think that justifies stealing any piece of audio you want if you can turn it into completely new audio. And there's a nostalgia factor that no one seems to be aware of. Randomly throwing a nostalgic sample into your track for a few seconds or some random nostalgic sound can create awe in the listener. Hearing sampling used this way for the first time is still a memory that I associate with stopping listening to normal music and trying to find the most trippy experimental stuff possible. I think just use sound however you want.

[@anachroclast8712]

​@@narvi5779Shaperbox has been amazing for chopping up samples. I've been having a blast with it, fun way to make samples totally unrecognizable. I still won't use copyrighted samples though.

[@narvi5779]

@Obsessive Audio I think at a certain point it's impossible to tell if something is sampled or not. Using grain delay alone is enough to make a sample unrecognizable. I feel like just using delay with wet 100 would be enough to confuse an AI lmao.

[@woodycook3133]

Don’t miss Fatboy Slim, The Chemical Brothers, The Avalanches

[@TreetopCanopy]

Another reminder that copyright infringement is different from plagiarism! Licensing can be complicated, and it's important to discuss the nuances with creators of all media

[@nomore6167]

I'd add to this that there is a very big difference between royalty-free and copyright-free, but many people conflate the two concepts and treat royalty-free as if it means copyright-free.

[@Seriouspup]

Yea the word plagiarism is a good one for this situation

[@boimesa8190]

@@nomore6167 could u explain the difference?

[@boimesa8190]

What would you say are the main differences?

[@nomore6167]

@@boimesa8190 "could u explain the difference [between royalty-free and copyright-free]?" - Sure. I'll speak specifically with regard to U.S. copyright law, but I believe copyright laws are very similar worldwide. Under copyright law, if you want to use part of a copyrighted work (for example, a sample from a song), then you must pay a royalty (a per-use fee) to whomever owns the copyright to that work. If you're performing live, that means paying a fee for each performance. If you created a track and you're selling it, that means paying a fee for each sale. If you created a track and it's broadcast via radio or streaming, that means paying a fee each time it's broadcast/streamed. Royalty-free means a licensed piece of work (for example, a sample) can be used without paying those royalty fees. You still need to obtain a license from the copyright owner and all other copyright protections remain in place unless otherwise stated in the license. Copyright-free means a work is not protected by copyright, so from a copyright perspective, everyone is free to use it without restriction (though other intellectual property laws may apply, such as trademark rights if two people/companies use the same audio/image as their branding).

[@yetispaghetti5754]

As someone who is absolutely in love with the Oldschool Boom-Bap style I completely agree that the artist needs to personalize the samples they use. A lot of Boom-Bap is Mostly if not all sampled, while still being completely different from the original songs. Songs like Shook Ones pt II (Mobb Deep), NY State of Mind (Nas), and Mathamatics (Mos Def) all sound so different from the songs that they were sampled from. Sampling isnt just an easy way out, sometimes its a key part of the style, just make sure the song still ends up being a new vision entirely rather than just the same song with only a small set of changes

[@JesusGreenBL]

This is something worth being aware of for content creators too. On my main channel I had to take down a bunch of my videos including a specific music track, because while that track was offered for anyone to use freely - it turned out the person who created the track had apparently sampled another track without getting proper permission and they were coming after KZbin channels using the song as a result. I exclusively use tracks from the official KZbin audio library now just to play it safe.

[@SwiftDreamer]

Sampling vs using loops and whether they are creative or not will be argued until the end of time. I think Sampling is very underrated, though I'm inspired by Dilla. I think Sampling has gotten lazier, and loops are used as a crutch too much, but I have hope someone new will come soon that will push the envelope again and inspire the new generation to be different

[@sethsapp-pl3tg]

Look up knxwledge some of his stuff is on par with dilla

[@SwiftDreamer]

@@sethsapp-pl3tg I know who Knxwledge is

[@Doit4mojo]

yeaaa there’s so many talented producers out there that are inspired by dilla, madlib. But god damn is there sooo many of them. Not to mention a lot of it overlaps each other. There are ones who are really furthering that tho (mike, cities aviv, knxwledge, earl sweatshirt) i feel intentions have a lot to do with it u can’t package something like donuts in a nutshell really

[@ANLATCHNOON]

It really aint lazy nowadays. And since you said you were inspired by dilla, the following producers in the modern day use sampling very well, to make the sample; their own: Madlib Clams casino Kenny beats Jpegmafia (yes, he self produces) Christo whitearmor Scrim (from $uicideboy$)

[@carlosp.1846]

Can we mention DJ Premier, Pete Rock, Q-Tip De La Soul, etc etc etc please? Dilla came after… way after. Thanks!ˆ

[@jonathanryan124]

Some collages are artful, some are not. The power in art is the act of doing something. I like what y’all said about robbing themselves of the creative process, outputting a product to be consumed rather than an artifact of actual experience. I could care less about the legalities, I’m sad for them cause they missed out on being creative

[@Bestmann3n]

That's a really weird take unless you are a millionaire who can afford do live for your creativity. The music industry is exactly that, a standardized industry in a capitalist economy and in that environment the "creative process" is already completely undermined by profit incentives. If you take your art seriously, then you should start by thinking about how your artistic integrity is compromised by your own commodification of your "art".

[@jonathanryan124]

@@Bestmann3n hahaha I’m poor af but I’m still creative everyday. Art is a practice. You can in fact be creative and reap its benefits without being in any ”industry”. If you take a moment and realize the act of making art is all that matters. Not the outcome.

[@darkuniversesound]

Thanks for putting such good hard work into making important questions and dialogue happen! i'm a longtime singer/guitar guy who has jumped into dawless production the past few years, and i feel like i'm really truly still just entranced with the novelty of the electro playing experience.... i've made my own stuff but i'm using one-shots that somebody else made, loops that someone else created, and bass and leads using some of my own sound design, but also some synth presets that someone else designed! Basically, the entire thing almost is stolen from the beginning, right down to those ubiquitous beloved Roland drum sounds.... i even love using the stock patterns that come with all the groups available in Native Instruments expansions, and just fooling around with the stuff already on there for a while! IT's so much fun, and i didn't even have to delay my gratification for endless hours while i created drumsynth sounds from init waveforms, sound designed everything from scratch, etc etc before i could even begin Note One of a jam! 🤷‍♂️ i guess i'm trying to say that from a traditional musician and instrumentalist's perspective, the entirety of modern mass consumer music-making is based on stealing - or more accurately borrowing - other people's sounds and having a lot of fun with them! i say borrowing, because hopefully you're giving something back to the musical community at large by showcasing your fun and maybe encouraging others to have some as well 🥳.... Money seems to be the main sticking point for most people in these matters; did someone get paid off of someone else's material? Did original creator get compensated properly? Who's making what dough where, and when? 🧐 This is pretty much, as usual, the exact opposite of having fun, where basically everyone has no fun because everyone has to figure out who's making what money.... And music, and music appreciation, gets lost in the shuffle of the rush towards the chunk of change.... And this obsessive focus with remuneration is not going to shift any time soon, so unfortunately there will be a difficult road ahead in convincing people that the music ITself is honestly the most important thing, and who did what with which is just not really very meaningful in the great, cosmic scheme of things 🙄🤷‍♂️ Just my two cents.... Thanks again for encouraging meaningful dialogue in our world 🙏🌌

[@davidpurple3698]

Thanks for the video. Don't overthink it - if collecting samles creates great music, listeners don't care and no one should spam them. As you said - you create samples to be used. Your last guest talks about making music as an artist - its about making what You want and what you makes you - and an ordnance - happy about.

[@danpreston564]

I bought my first sampler in 1993. It could hold 15.625 seconds of 12 bit samples. I only used it to sample 'found sounds'. I still don’t like using a commercial loop. I want to create. I have drum machines. I have synths. I want to make my own music. I sometimes like to sample and chop up things or reverse things and see what happens, but it needs to be overlaid with my own sounds. I don't mind people using sampled sounds. The Orb are one of my all time favourite acts, and they are primarily based on samples, but not commercially available samples.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

Taking a sample and making your own music around it is perfectly fine however doing what Notlo did is just lazy and basically cheap and gets no respect from Me and I see her as a rip off because thats what she did. Akai demo songs are dope maby I should just take those stem them out, put them in My DAW do a little rearrangement add some basic effects and there thats My next 5 albums finished lol. I would never do that or never use something like Niko midi cord pack because it undermines My own original created music because everything I put out even if its 100% My own will be believed to be made by someone else. I have made very nice piano melodys of My own for decades and if was to now to use Niko midi cord pack then everyone would think all My own piano melodys was created by Niko or I was heavily influenced by Niko and I dont like that. I'd have to point out "This was My own created melody nothing to do with Niko" Then someone will says "Yer but you can only make melodys like that because your copying Niko" I wouldn't even have Nikos midi pack on My computer for that reason.

[@datapusher-OG]

@D T Day Depeche mode also used stock emulator samples though... 🤷‍♂Cest la vie

[@lazerboomerang]

I think the most rewarding thing is to use samples in a creative way. Getting inspired by it, using it, but in a way, either through processing/changing or implementing them into your song in a way that no one would ever recognize it is there. That is something I love to achieve with samples and love when artists achieve that in a way I am totally surprised. Mainly, samples are often a very good starting point, from where you can get inspiration, but then go along to find your own voice within it, change, re-arrange and produce it so it fits your own unique style and is no longer recognizable as a sample. I produced songs where samples were a starting point, but in the end, the final product had nothing to do with either the melody or the sound of the sample. It doesn't matter, how you get inspired to be creative, but in fact, that you get inspired at all. Daft Punk made some amazing songs with samples (of course not from splice, but from old records), by putting their own spin on them, taking those original ideas and turning them into something entirely their own. But then again, that is a very different thing from just releasing the demo track of the sample with some of your own ear candy and vocals.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

Exactly I'll use a sample because its sparks off a creative idea. I made a dope track recently using a preset melody off of a VST sythersizor, it's a very long evolving 10 second loop and sounds great so I just kept that exactly as it is and built My track around it and it sounds great.

[@lazerboomerang]

​@@HOLLASOUNDS Like Andrew Scheps always says: It doesn't matter, HOW you arrive at your destination, but THAT you arrive at all. In the end, it is important, that you don't blatantly steal 1:1, but actually create something entirely new and original with it. And tbh, I often enjoy listening to songs with the sample in its original form but having a complete different song built on it.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

@@lazerboomerangWhile the sound is actually being generated from a VST sythersizor preset, I used it like a uncut sample I actually bounced out the audio. When it comes to actually sampling some one elses music I often dont chop it up very much, often I just loop 3 bars and play the last loop out to the 4th bar and that's it.

[@fearofaflatearth]

The art of sampling is a nuanced form of expression and genre where often the creativity is in how little a sample can be altered to create a new sound. That's not what happened in this case haha! Great video, thanks for sharing the story

[@steven4217]

What an extremely interesting video and the interviews you included with the experts was surely a true example of going the extra mile. Great job

[@kornelkovacs2181]

I just found your channel recently and I have to say it's truly a real gem. You're the reason I didn't give up on music and found my way of music making. Can't thank you enough!

[@VenusTheory]

Ayyyyyyy well thank you! Really glad to hear that, that's exactly what I want. Cheers! ☕

[@joshuawallwork6678]

Do you have any links to your music

[@ronniesnakehissiii9413]

Never heard of her, but for so many demos to be used in her catalog, I'd be interested in learning how long she's been producing. Seems like she got big enough to have tour dates as a beginner producer. What I took from the version of the story from here, NotLo "sampling" was like putting a 500 piece puzzle of The Mona Lisa together and then framing it, then charging folks to view it at a gallery!

[@LeftCat]

Hah! That's a really great way to describe it!

[@movement6514]

Women have it far easier to be booked

[@Arcessitor]

@@movement6514 I remember the case study by this feminist student who thought the EDM community oppressed women. She found out that just because she's a woman she immediately got booked to massive shows and events to play the Billboard top 100 and was shocked. It was the funniest thing.

[@vansteenbergenlaurens]

@@Arcessitor women that can actually produce and show that off in a video/stream w/o male help are ultra rare but I hope it will happen. This industry needs to be less superficial

[@DenhamDocherty]

Shes fairly well known in the underground/Experimental bass scene flew onto my Rader with a song called Catnip 2 years odd ago. ( a longtime fave) Pretty much song release has been on well established labels with international Reach ( I'm From Perth,Australia ) her newest release have been inconsistent lackin "flow" the is in her older tunes. This is likely due to said sampling.. odds are she will iced out of the scene. as the Genre Is based around wacky exciting sounds and carving out a unique space and burnt on of my fave tunes to DJ, the real outrage here.

[@d0tghost]

Your videos are always incredibly calm and peaceful, something unique that I don't see a lot of music based channels doing; keep it up, I'm always here for it

[@omnipop4936]

The scary part is that sometimes a sample pack can *_itself_* be partly comprised of loops outright stolen from some random, obscure artist's song. So, if you utilize the pack, while you might be in perfect compliance with the loop company's terms of use, you might still be vulnerable to some original artist coming out of the woodwork to sue you if your song becomes huge. Didn't Vengeance have a sample pack that turned out to be problematic in this way, years ago?

[@skeebopboopittyspoobiddybo9400]

Lol that's crazy. Glad I don't just drag and drop and call it a day.

[@OrangeNash]

Think of all the kick and snare samples on the sample packs by now. It must be millions of each. Nobody every created all those themselves. My guess is that a significant percentage of drum hits on sample packs were taken from a previous sample pack and altered slightly. Or not even altered, in some cases. They probably all trace back to a handfull of samples from the 1980s!

[@GoingOrbit]

And this is why I like to avoid sample packs.

[@horizon95official]

Me personally, I have steered away from using melodic samples and have mostly stuck to one shot samples for things like drums, as that is mostly what I use from my sample library. With one shots, whether it be melodic or percussive, you still have to do something with it to make it your own, similar to presets in synths. I stay away from any kind of chord or melodic sample pack as for me, I enjoy the process of writing my own chords and melodies. I'm currently studying audio production in uni, and I've seen some other people who just whip up tracks by throwing together loops in garageband and making a tune in a few minutes. I could never see myself doing that and claiming it as my own when I've done little to no work.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

You hit the nail on the head and that's why people like Me and you are not making a living off of are music because We care to much about are own sound and respect are selfs to much to ever undermine our creativity however some people are here for that quick money. Matlo basically see a quick money making scheme by ripping off of demo tracks from sample packs, I could just rip off Akai demo tracks and I'd have over 100 tracks ready to upload by tomorrow. To Me that sort of behaviour is similar to a prostitute dignity and self respect sold out for cash.

[@prod.kidmizu]

I feel you on the last part, after making a lot of beats I can easily whip something fire up from scratch in 10 or 15 minutes. With more time I can make something even better. All it takes it practice and many producers are lazy, or just trying to make a bunch of beats for profit

[@imraan6405]

If NotLö made something completely different but wit the original sounds it would be creative in a way but this is just an outright rip-off imo.😐

[@dynamicphase8239]

That's my same though about this situation. If you're going to use loops from sample packs, why not just take different loops from different sample packs and come up with something different and, maybe, original? I feel like it's next level lazyness

[@kahyui2486]

@@dynamicphase8239 true but she did exactly what non musicians do. Which is make very small tweaks to the original sound and then put it in their videos and legally speaking the license allows for that.

[@SDDTV]

5:27 5:31

[@SDDTV]

5:41 6:14 6:27 6:28 6:41 6:46 6:48 6:50 6:54 😊

[@johannjohann6523]

Thank you for this well done, informative, and enjoyable video. Pro quality all the way. I'm a musician but I don't know much about the business world of music, but always interested in hearing how it works, and learning about it.

[@Soupy_bass]

This is a really well produced video man. Good job and congrats. Also out of nashville and have heard that phrase a ton

[@KaisuiSTFC]

I always think about this and how it affects the music panorama in general, since i began music production i decided to stick to a couple of very strict rules to try to keep my content as original as possible, one of those is NOT USING MIDI PACKS (specially that one appearing on my KZbin ads every five seconds), i avoid "pre-made" melodies, melodic samples, recorded instruments, i just use percussion loops, kick samples, hi-hats, noises and mostly "atonal" stuff, then i process them a lot to make them fit into my projects also some synth presets, that i try to modify to make them fit into whatever i'm doing. Probably NotLö is being pressed to put out music at a very constant rate or maybe is just another victim of laziness... i think we will never know.

[@athomesongwriting]

This aligns to how I approach this. I find that I use more little percussive things to add texture under the other parts that I am playing and creating myself. I may also just listen to the various parts and try to emulate the style, but not copy, if that makes sense. You can learn a lot about groove by dissecting some of these loops. Honestly I pay for Splice and hardly ever use it.

[@yousifal-dailami8687]

same, i use one shot drums and would prefer them being unprocessed, i also use raw instruments (not with granular effects or anything at all really). no drum loops no midi shet no presets from synths even. i am not convinced that using these doesn't affect the originality of the music. plus who the hell thinks like: i want to make music and then doesnt make the melody nor the rhythm not the sounds... i guess i got a little bit too excited edit: ok they just said that in the call lol. but i guess now i know who would do something like that, someone who thought: i wanna make MONEY*(and fame and all that stuff) and starts copying things from anywhere.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

Notlo in My opinion literally just copied the demo track did some minor changes and called it her own and that's just lazy and no I have no respect for her for doing that. I make My own stuff but I also sample but usually the sample is short and used as a stab sound to make a new melody out of it. I like to take something and be inspired to build a track around it and basically the track only exists because I built it around a sample I was inspired by.

[@monat_son]

Ill go with the victim.

[@krytenfivetwothreep2485]

@@yousifal-dailami8687 Most musicians, when they want to make music, don't make the sounds themselves on account of most musicians playing acoustic instruments that have a set sound. I do sometimes use synth presets, although I usually tweak them a bit. I mean, why waste time making a sound from the ground up, when there's a preset that's like, 90% of the way there already?

[@rebstez]

People nowadays refer to sampling as taking a sample from a sample pack and using it as it is in their own music. Older generations of producers know that sampling is in fact taking a piece of music or a tiny bit of information from a song or some sample pack and twisting it or warping it until it fits your own song or idea. J Dilla was a fan of this, Liam Howlett from Prodigy based his whole sound on that technique, Daft Punk, Burial, Noisia did it in their first album Split the Atom, i also remember watching a doc about Pink Floyd where they talk about taking some cash register sounds and making their track "money". Sample packs today are specifically made for genres, which leads to lack of creativity, downloading an "Insert genre here" sample pack and using the projects or the wav loops from that pack. That will produce a generation of uncreative individuals (already has) and will boost up the noise in the industry. As a result from that we have a lottery where some people that cut thru that noise and some people don't. Many of the makers of sample packs are producers that just didn't made in the industry and they started to make samples as a way to survive and make some money. Whos to say that if the guy that did the original sample pack couldn't have a successful music career if he just released them as songs. We owe a lot to the makers of sample packs, half of the electronic scene wouldn't be alive if Vengeance didn't exist. The way to solve this is just by opening our eyes a bit and giving credit where credit is due. I love a good sample pack, but if i need to copy paste it in whole and write my name on it then i would rather stop "making music". And remember, the guys that make the sample packs are the guys making the scene and what is popular at the moment.

[@ZombieflesheaterZFE]

This. I was always a bit speechless when some people asked in forums or social media groups thinks like "where do i find samples to make music/ to sound like artist x", sometimes i asked how long they tried to find them/how long they "make music" wich was always a few days to a couple of weeks. for them making electronic music consists of using samples that sound like someone else to recreate that sound and thats it. like playing with Lego, sometimes even rmisinterprete that as "being inspired" by the artist they copy. explaining carefully, that finding their personal sound which can take "a bit longer" than a few weeks, researching sounds etc is a (if not the) main part in creating music, sometimes resulted in a bold reply along the line of that they do not which to get further with producing music than this.

[@psirensongs]

I really appreciate this video- I just want to point out that it's very funny that Jon is talking about not being allowed to use loops, but uses a stock image that is completely unedited (aside from cropping) for one of the tracks showcased on his website; I know because I used a slight edit of the exact same free image for an album cover years ago, and have likewise seen it used in other places. Most humorously, by my college's brightspace where they used a crop of it for a course banner.

[@PenMarkArt]

My basic rule is don’t use loops, unless I chop it up *drastically* Originally, back in college, I didn’t like sampling at all, thought it was cheating outright and avoided it. Years later, I learned about sound design and found the transformation of sounds really creative. My compromise now, is just to only use *some* one shots, and process them into my new creation. Loops make me uneasy, but I’ll still chop one up for occasional effect. Keeping that creative-journey intact is most fulfilling to me, and using one-shots ALONGSIDE original synthesis is nice balance.

[@hazeentertainmenthiphop]

Um, I guess..

[@pooppyybuhhole]

You’re thinking about it too much. Just have fun and enjoy creating music.

[@OrangeNash]

Seems to me that the really succesful musicians don't get hung up on ideas of purity. They copy, steal, borrow and always have done. Used to be copying chord sequences. There's only 12 notes, theres' nothing that hasn't been done.

[@Gallanitte]

You are slowly but surely becoming one of my favourite KZbinr. Your videos are thoughtful, interesting, bring a new light on things debated time and time again, witty and funny but most of all: so well prepared! Few KZbinrs actually script their videos, so their it becomes a mess of edited chops that I can tolerate only up to a point. It happens to everyone to mess up here and there, but having whole sentences made up of edited parts is excrutiatingly annoying. I know that you spend a lot of time preparing your videos and put a lot of thought into them. I sure hope you can continue to do so because I am staying tuned.

[@ragdolltk]

I was mad at the beginning (being i had watched this in real-time) how this video started, BUT after watching, i thoroughly enjoyed this take. I want to add that the deeper issues are how she gained a following of 13k, releases on pretty big labels in the dubstep sphere, had some big producers come to shield, and were getting good bookings really showed the darker side of the industry pushing specific individuals while walking over talented individuals.

[@samrogers7657]

This is one of the reasons I became disillusioned with making music and DJing. I’m not prepared to kiss 🍑 for bookings etc

[@fishcakes5626]

Exactly my thought. I buy sample packs (ghost syndicate being one of them) and never has it crossed my mind to do what she did. Here I am, an independent producer trying to get booked, play shows, gain a following, etc, and there are people doing this instead of making original music. I suppose this story makes me want to shift my production techniques a bit but it doesn't change my goal of making my tunes sound unique

[@msmith323]

​​@@fishcakes5626I slaved for years, thought that having a hit was the reason I was born...I found the industry isn't interested in good music. It's who you know, not what you play. So don't play their game. If you love music, just make the music you love, the music you've always wanted to hear, own it and be proud. Play it loud, & give it to your friends. It's honestly a better way

[@fishcakes5626]

@@msmith323 Thanks for the insight! I try to keep this in mind when I create music; Bottom line is it’s an art form for me. With that said, if people like my art and will pay to see it live I’ll definitely not shy away from the opportunity to turn a profit

[@GameInterest]

I've been watching this channel for exactly one day now, and I love it. I've wondered a while if something like this would happen with sample sites.

[@chloeme3589]

At the end of the day, it's art. If you have fun while doing it, feel like you are following your purpose and passion and feel satisfied with what you do, you're golden! I used to feel like I have to completely change a loop and then I let that go. If I like a loop the way it is I'll use it as is. Like he said in the video, as a loop creator, he doesn't care if you modify it or not. Just make music, do what makes you happy. Edit: I'm as stated above only talking about using loops and in no way condoning stealing songs or demo songs ;)

[@derrikc9961]

Yes judge, I did steal but "at the end of the day" I felt satisfied. You realize they stole the entire demo song, not just a loop?

[@TedBilk]

@Derrik C honestly don't care as long as she credits and pays the artists for the samples she used, music making is for the music maker to enjoy however they want

[@chloeme3589]

@@derrikc9961 obviously stealing a song is a whole different thing. I'm talking about using loops, not stealing demo songs.

[@acehood3552]

Exactly bro. If I'm ever in need of some quick inspiration I'll go to Splice or Looperman, and sometimes I'll chop it, flip it, reverse it, pitch it, bop it, or whatever, but other times I find it perfect as is. This whole thing mindset that you HAVE TO alter the loop somehow to feel like a true artist is just silly to me. But to each their own

[@NVLLMEMORY]

I'm really glad that this video came across my feed today. As an aspiring electronic music producer, I've asked myself these very questions nearly every day that I practice. I think, for the most part, that how I felt was sort of validated by your thorough analysis. I'd like to thank you for producing such a well-written commentary on something that is such a pressing matter. I find there are days where I worry that, if I try too hard that I'll burn out and this passion of mine will fade; I think Mr. Meyer raised some incredibly thoughtful points on the matter. Doing research, experimenting and learning are all things that I've already been doing, and it feels so great to hear it from someone who's so versed in the industry.

[@warringtonruncorn]

Music is there to be copied and remixed. It was copied and remixed by everyone for all of human history till licensing and publishing added money and lawyers to the bargain. However, this seems that NotLo went out of their way to try and recreate the demo track, missing the entire point of the creative process, and was in a web driven desire to "create more content" rather than express anything.

[@AutPen38]

I was struck by Benn's story of how he made a demo to be included in FL Studio and someone uploaded it apparently as an attempt to pass it off as their own work and get some clicks and likes, which is a bit... sad. What seems to have happened to some extent with NotLo is that her recreations of demo tracks accidentally became popular, so people thought she was more talented than she actually is. Assuming she didn't set out the whole thing as a big scam from the word go, I can sort of imagine how one popular (if creatively bankrupt) upload of a remake led to another. If the public or a record label says "Have you got any more tracks like that?" and no one had noticed the lack of originality in the first upload, it must be quite difficult to admit that "Yes, I have others, but I copied them too."

[@DirtySecretz]

Another brilliantly insightful and thought provoking video! Pretty coincidentally I recently had someone comment under the preview of a track I'm working on saying something along the line of "Isn't Splice great!", I imagine rather sarcastically implying the main sample I was using in a track had come from Splice. I have always tried to steer clear of using melodic loops from sample sites in my productions for the very reasons you mention in the video but in this case the sample was actually from a track released in 1980, a year before I was born. I heard something in that funk/soul track and thought it could be flipped into a great house track. Even before I tried it I did a search to see if anyone had done this before, with the fear me using it just adding yet another version to the saturation out there but thankfully there had been only one person who'd sampled it before. However what I think this does prove is that, certainly from one group of people, there is this opinion of how and when you should use loops, and that using any type of melodic sample from a sample provider is 'cheating'. Does the fact I took the sample from a track released over 40 years ago differ from me taking a sample from a sample pack and doing the same thing? I've definitely done both but I always believe it's what you do with the sample that counts and that given the evidence, (certain) people will judge you on your laziness. Not the crowd on the dance floors dancing to your track, they couldn't care less!

[@BeatMax2023]

Thanks for the nice video. All your videos are really nice and informative and well produced. :)

[@bricelory9534]

Well-rounded and interesting thoughts - I recognize this is a super nuanced and complex issue, especially since so many artists enjoy hearing their work sampled (at least either when it's credited and/or creatively changed - creating a sort of musical conversation/collaboration). My initial impulse is that ethical issues arise when the used loop/sample is not either a part of some larger structure or is clearly distinct from the original without requiring a concentrated A/B test, which is obviously a very subjective position. For this case, I think I'd personally have a hard time distinguishing that they were two different songs if I heard them casually, five minutes apart. To me, that is not enough change to not credit the source within the title.

[@TachyBunker]

To be honest that is just another reminder to always find niche libraries, or to mangle samples a lot to turn them into something you wanted first instead of them inspiring a track. Maybe it'll make it lose some magic, but if going against the current is safer and very doable (and much more fun) then so be it :)

[@TachyBunker]

@AlgoCompSynth by znmeb no no, to be honest i think i used a ton of sampled that are still recognizable but that no one uses/makes a copyright with. Things like freesound, zero g, akai's, etc... just the old CD ROM's that a lot of underground and media composers used from the 1990's to 2010's, less now. This is my niche, the point of finding one is that it's now very unlikely i'll encounter copyright issues with it. I still cut things though. But i disagree with that "you can create anything just do it," i have a very limited view on aspects of a sound compared to the sound designers making them, so it's more inspiration.

[@sub-jec-tiv]

Or just make your own music

[@eklipseRomania]

My 2 cents: For one of my albums, I used the ejay sample packs, which are older than most people here. I only got one fingerprint warning and it was solved in a few hours without any negative repercussions. Zero regrets. Sampling can be theft or art, it's up to you as the artist. If you, as an artist, can sleep well at night then it's all good.

[@TachyBunker]

@@sub-jec-tiv trust me it's not laziness to use samples lol. I'm willing to bet you dont consistently hit more than 130 stems per song you make.

[@gatergates8813]

​@Tachy Bunker nah, its laziness-what you think is a tool is really a crutch

[@johnfowlertrailrunning]

I’ve just watched this again a year later and it seems even more meaningful this time. I’ve started browsing through Splice occasionally and even a drum app but only for inspiration, in a similar way to which you might get inspiration from a song (dare I say it these days!). For someone approaching their 60’s making electronic music as a hobby but also for releasing, some of the info you present in this video comes as quite a shock, thinking that the sample packs are fair game for song writing and releasing! Loving your videos of recent years, fascinating topics, please keep them coming dude! 😊

[@JeremiahHartmanPhotography]

What sucks is when an artist on a label uses loops or sample packs the label then goes after everyone that might has used that same loop/sample pack and copyright claims it....even though its royalty free. It creates a HUGE problem for everyone especially on youtube (and im assuming streaming services too). I used loops in my production infancy but will not touch them now because of all the DMCA claims on my videos. Id sometimes have 5 labels trying to claim my song at the same time causing my videos to be put in KZbin purgatory until all the appeals were done.

[@365OTG]

I think "sampling" in hip hop and "sampling" in other genres versus "samples = Loops" are all nuanced things. Great topic. I didn't know these nuances cause a major wall in conversations between producers in different communities. I learned a lot

[@ZynetESLD]

YOOOOO DUBSTEP SIDE

[@harryruckus]

Very well done!! I didn't realize bootlegging and leaked music was still a thing, tbo. However, I'm only mildly interested in that stuff since there's infinite released music out there to listen to. Plus I'm still a big aficionado of the album itself as a format + well thought through tracklisting (getting old I guess..). Anyway, grabbing unreleased acapellas with the aim of producing dedicated instrumentals is a beautiful thing to do. And very Hip-Hop as well which I always support to the fullest ❤

[@yophosy5419]

Thank you - great "discussion" - my view is this - composers and song writers have a toolkit - chord progressions, arpeggios, key changes etc etc and the more you know the easier it is to take these and make them your own - Moonlight sonata - "simple" arpeggios (if these did not exist most Genesis keyboard playing on theior first few albums would be silent!) - Bowie vs Marc Bolan - "we both stole from Chuck Berry" ... with more musical knowledge (in the past 10 years of playing with Ableton) than when I started listening 60+ years ago I can say that very little in the world is new - McCartney based his (imho) worst songs on music hall and Springo based B to Run on a Beatles song and S & Garfunkle used old folk songs - Bob D*lan would not know an original tune if he fell over it (imho) - Bad Boy by BI and bro' is based (bar 1 note) on a folk song - so while I think the lady in question was VERY cheeky, very few, if any, music writers throughout time can claim to be totally original.

[@SynthDesigner]

Really great breakdown. Thoughtful and well put together.

[@daibando9893]

Now I have a whole new topic to spend time reading/learning about: acoustic fingerprinting. This is a really good vid, as usual. Thanks for making and presenting it.

[@VenusTheory]

Welcome to quite the rabbithole - the different content ID/fingerprint systems make sampling and things suuuuuuuuch a massive headache. Makes sense why so many music libraries ban it though - all it would take is one song to become moderately successful using the same loop or something similar enough to where it trips the alarm bells.

[@nickstene1384]

Great content as always. Many thanks!

[@Scyber_Official]

These problems have been plaguing the music industry since the mid 2000s and I'm glad that more musicians and producers are starting to address it. 💯

[@frankfrank7921]

Address what? If the sample pack gives you the right to use the samples any way you see fit even in your own commercial music then they have no recourse. If these sample pack providers started tightening up their limitations on what you can do with their samples their business would suffer in all likelihood.

[@tuxievous420]

Exacty^ these people releasing the packs are getting paid so it is what it is. If you don’t like the released track then don’t buy and move on Wilma

[@ThenVersusNow_]

@@frankfrank7921 Nobody cares that she used the samples. The sample packs come with a demo song to display the pack. The packs state you cannot use the demo song commercially at all. At least four of her songs were literally the demo songs with minor additions.

[@DJeMo]

​@@ThenVersusNow_ yeah seems there's alot more at her antics judging by some responses, sad times....

[@frankfrank7921]

@@ThenVersusNow_ Well, that's very different. The video touches upon that but is also all over the place. Obviously if she exceeded her rights with the samples then she should be drawn and quartered.

[@RyenElwoodo]

As a person who was just about to buy their first sample pack, really appreciate this video. Great breakdown, great content.

[@sustomusickillsyoutube]

Invest in learning sound design!

[@thedevilsadvocate5210]

buy a sample pack if you can afford it and want it

[@cameleon8840]

I always enjoyed your content, but I especially loved this video, thanks for that !

[@amateurmusicstudio]

Thank you for the video and for bringing such a topic to discussion. It was interesting to learn about all of the issues related to sampling. I have never used samples but created everything from scratch so this was all new to me. Interesting and informative video. I rather feel sorry for those who use samples in their production: when you hear something and it inspires you to create something new - that is exciting but using that in your own production.... I understand that not everyone has the same abilities but possibly a lot of people want to be doing the same and that is where the problems lays as far as I can tell... Sampling provided a way for everyone to create music - it is perfectly fine if you do that for your own pleasure but I think it becomes an issue when you try to commercialise the product. Thank you for your time and effort creating the video!

[@pippin210]

Really interesting video, so much more thought provoking than "just another gear demo"... Musicians have always borrowed from each other, but I guess the thing about loops and samples is that detecting their use can be automated. To me, as long as everything is properly attributed and (where necessary) paid for, I don't see the problem.

[@mass-1128]

This happens a lot in the EDM industry. Please do more of these videos.

[@vatogomareli]

13:00 it’s gold right here! great video

[@CraigRodmellMusic]

This was very interesting and thought-provoking. Thanks, Cameron. (And by the way, when I started watching this, I had just finished up work for the day on realising Bartok's 3rd Piano Concerto. It's a piece of music I absolutely love, and always wanted to perform. So now that I have BBCSO Core for my orchestra, I'm doing it!!! I think it's awesome that there are tools like BBCSO Core out there that make things like this possible for people like me.

[@gjindancer]

As a Native Instruments user I would rarely use melodic loops, though I have once or twice on ipad Garage band when messing about. I'm much rather record my guitar or play a vst and just use a few vocal samples if I dont have a singer available. I totally get why Hip hop & Rap do this though and If you re-contextualize it is not straight stealing :)

[@VenusTheory]

Such a tricky thing though isn't it - for those who can't play melodic instruments (ie: a drummer making a track or something) it becomes so messy to consider loops these days because of all the content ID systems out there and the definitions of what makes music legally 'similar' with melody and such being an integral part of the majority of the definition of a creative work!

[@SamuelHereAmI]

I love Maschine

[@nitroanilinmusic]

I haven't listened to all NotLo examples being claimed, just the one at the beginning of the video, but going by my gut feeling and that example alone, it seems to me not a case of theft or even plagiarism, but a case of bankrupt creativity. The artist takes one sample from a sample pack and does the bare minimum or most obvious thing with it, no wonder it's going to sound similar to a demo for that sample.

[@AutPen38]

I don't know the details of the case or how many "reconstructions" she uploaded, but the thing I don't really understand is why someone would try and pass it off as their own work. I'd be far too embarrassed to send it to a record label if I knew that it was so unoriginal. I can imagine a label asking "Have you got any more tracks?" but I'd say "Yes, but it's mostly just remixes of construction kits". I guess she got caught up in narcissistic loop due to the record label interest and thought "I'll tell them later" or "Maybe no one will ever find out". Either that or she's one of those younger people that thinks that "creativity" means copying someone else's homework and pretending that you didn't. (We live in a culture where - thanks to things like memes and reposts - intellectual property and creativity has been eroded. Many young people don't see it as "wrong" to repost someone else's photos, words, or music, without giving credit. Many seem to delight in getting popular on the back of someone else's work.)

[@esteban.t]

I released a song last year with one free loop from landr samples through oneRPM, and after the initial revision, my track upload was cancelled because another artist had used that same exact loop on a song he released previously, so yes, there's issues like these when using royalty free loops. They either have to be taken out completely (which in this case I did) or modify it altogether to not land a copyright strike.

[@nohnnadda]

Pro tip : When im done with a beat, I always upload to soundcloud, private. Bc it acts as a soft Copyright test. I used a sample from Splice not too long ago, and someone else had used it and uploaded to all platforms. By uploading to soundcloud first, i avoided a headache. Love.

[@HyruleDude]

What mic and preamp do you use for your video audio ?

[@jacksonmade3667]

I’ve talked about this with all of my music friends at this point. In a perfect world, people would use samples as a catalyst to create their own things. I can’t really knock anyone because I don’t know what you’re hearing in your creative mind. Everybody’s creativity deserves some space to be heard or shared. My conflict is that I definitely feel a way about the cut and paste situation, or people using exact samples to re-create a track that was made to be “Sampled” I find it difficult to have an issue with that, and at the same time, say that everybody’s level creativity has a space. Up until recently, I didn’t want to use any sample that would be recognized by Shazam, but let that go because I trust my creative ear to steer me in the right direction. It’s a gray area unfortunately, but I just focus on staying true to what I hear in my soul. Besides create and share with others, that’s all one can do.

[@msmith323]

That's how acid house was born. 'Acid burn' meant lifting a sample off a record, years before acid became known as LSD

[@emodate]

I think there's an unfortunate downside with using samples but I think that's also due to how terribly in demand music is these days. I feel we have a massive pressure to complete the music as fast as we can. In my case as a film/media composer I've come across many situations where I have to produce a track in 1-2 days whether is replicating an original track to make a sound alike or making a beat in the same style as another type of track. In the end I don't feel like I've made anything that I really care to share publicly as I don't want to be one of those guys labeled as a copycat. I do my best to insert as much originality to make it as different as I can but that little bit that is the same or similar keeps me away from feeling good about a project even if it's for parody purposes. That said when I do resort to using samples I feel sometimes that I can only stick with samples because the samples all sound good together and anything that I make on my own will be inferior to it. It's a double edged sword, and you feel extremely dependent on it. Just random thoughts but I can see the positives and extreme negatives on it... Great video man!

[@projectlookingglass4807]

your awesome man.. keep making videos like this, people (including myself) need these type of videos to question our own ethics of creativity ; inspiration vs stealing or cryptomnesia vs. plagiarism ... I love "change a word - change a third" phrase tho lol

[@RealMusicHype]

Great stuff, keep it up!

[@knopperdog6960]

I personally use loops and samples as place holders, and if I do use samples, I at least make it unrecognizable. I find it way more rewarding to fully make my own music. It's not the same when you have your own melodies stuck in your head than when it was written by someone else. I think music making is a very personal thing, you put a little bit of your "soul" into it. It takes basically 0 talent to kit bash a sample pack to make a semi-decent track in 10 minutes. Being a producer is trendy now, and like everything else, people will try to take the easy way, and I think that ruins the experience for everyone, especially if your entire track is made out of virtual riot presets. I don't think you should be making music if you're only in it because its trendy, or for fortune and glory. That's why we have a lot of shallow music out there and it's kind of sad. I think producers should always try to do better, challenge yourself. You'll never learn if you just take the easy way.

[@abzfreedomfighter6724]

💯👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@Microphunktv-jb3kj]

I avoid mostly as well.. because tbh.. 90% of samplepacks are compltee GARBAGE nowdays... so much trash samplepacks out there because of democratization of music production. the less u use the more control you have over the sound... it's pretty hard to make something out of a loop, so it wouldnt start sounding really repetitive fast. i mostly use only samples for stuff wich is not achievable with synths, like real world instruments , jazzy stuff, u know all the warm fuzzy stuff in deep house

[@johnhawkinshawkins1284]

Big Fish are selling sample pack that cannot be used in any commercial music! That's right. For hobbyists only?!?! I'm lucky I spotted it in the nick of time. It's called Primal Drums, currently half price. I'm talking about ALL the samples in the pack, not just the demo. Read their licenses on the details page. The tiny print is different occasionally. And there's no warning.

[@sam0x2b]

an thats coz their job is to exploit people who want to be paid at least something to be better of the time they invested into learning how to make music. copyright through the corporate lense is bullshit!

[@dead_art]

Magix does that too. Their sample&loop packs for Music Maker DAW and Music Maker Jam app are not free but they are all for non-commercial use only, and that is hidden deep in the muds of their "license agreement". Actually, I wouldn't notice this myself until it was pointed out on a forum. As a hobbyist I … sort of don't care, but as a creating unit that has the ambition to be able to call my creations my own, I ditched it altogether.

[@ZynetESLD]

...so why even sell such a thing then.

[@nomore6167]

That's why you always have to read the license in detail (and always ask questions that are not answered in the license and save the answers in writing). One big issue is that "royalty-free" doesn't mean what many people think it means. Many people think it means literally use the samples however you want, including making a song from them and then selling that song to another artist who will sell it as their own. People often conflate royalty-free with copyright-free, but the two are very different concepts.

[@dead_art]

​@@ZynetESLD because they can.

[@backpackbeatzzz265]

Very interesting video man. I definitely enjoyed that you didnt pick one side or the other to demonize. That made it feel very balanced in opinion

[@annedeoedipus7849]

I love video rants. Rants in general, I’m a fan.

[@lucasbowerman2664]

I think that there is a artistic difference between using things that are meant to be samples- like royalty free samples, and sampling existing music or audio and recontexualizing it. Royalty free loops are normally not modified when used in songs and are often used just to finish a project quickly. I think that kind of feels artistically lazy. Taking audio that was not intended for music production- whether another song, audio from another source or foley and using that as a sample in your own music while recontextualizing it I think is a different art because it takes talent to both find those samples and see how they can fit in your vision of the song. Its one thing to go to splice and type in 130 bpm guitar loops in A and another to crate dig and find a cool sound in an old recording and then pitch it and edit it yourself into a track. No one would say that Fatboy Slim or Burial where ripping off the artists they sampled from- or being lazy in their sampling. The sampling in those artists work is the art itself.

[@sam0x2b]

why does this apply to music but not, for example, to games and films using stock sounds? just like that "metal pipe falling" sfx. was playing some Burnout Paradise and noticed it in there too, *seems fishy* but seriously, if its royalty free, and it was used unchanged -- well, youve raised awareness, some people will stop listening to creators' songs, are we done after?

[@alexkissmusic]

I generally have no problems with using percussion and shaker loops in my music, although I will often modify them to fit the groove, but I always stay away from anything melodic. It's kind of a common sense I think? Great video, and a very interesting subject.

[@Nahwan8]

Great vid with coolest guest 💯

[@sameerdodger]

The thing is when talking about copyright/stealing is that one really needs to separate the legal aspect of copyright and the artistic aspect. A lot of people confuse these two things yet they are very separate in nature. A legal fight is completely different battleground to discussing that artistic integrity of someone who has stolen/copied/sampled/covered or even just 'inspired by'. And even then, both are subjected to their own respective opinions. I think more than anything its just important to discuss these things, not to find an answer (because it's almost impossible) but to make people aware that there are different perspectives. Also point out when an artist has sampled as to give respect to the original and also pointing out the the 'sampler' has not made this as an original creative piece. Then it's up to people to decide for themselves whether they support that artist, because everyone has there own individual limits/boundaries. For example those 'boomer' rock fans you mentioned in the vid have a hard limit to copying (which i ofc find silly as nothing is original). Hell if someone samples an 80s track, adds some tape distortion, effects and stuff I would count that as a new piece whilst being a homage to the original. Myself, personally would not support the artist mentioned in this because it really goes past the rather forgiving line I have regarding sampling.

[@Gooden_Eye]

I can't imagine not altering any samples I didn't make myself. Using DAW makes it so easy to create, so I am focused on making my own original content. Videos like this are important for the music community to call out plagiarism.

[@oxicemusic]

These lazy artists are people more interested in the results of a good song than making a good song.

[@Gooden_Eye]

@@oxicemusic true, it's easy being a copycat...it takes talent and guts to be original

[@Weaverbeats]

I appreciate the video but I think comparing this situation to sampling is in rather poor taste. I also think you should have focused a bit more on the fact that she has copied multiple demo tracks in the past. Overall it feels a bit like you're downplaying it or don't want to step on any toes. I don't think people would have cared if it was just one track or if they weren't released with rather large labels.

[@Assortment54321]

This is why it's best to sample from individual stems and modify them. I am in the process of producing a trip hop thing under my sigaretto brand and I dread the thought of not making something unique.

[@williamscsharpwalkthroughs4316]

A fascinating topic, great video

[@stianskandsen5272]

As a complete beginner I find some samplepacks to be helpful. I mean starting out, it can be daunting to navigate through all the different VSTs and figure out what you need to make your own unique sounds. It can also be expensive when starting out. I also don't have the required skill yet to do all of the editing. I want to learn though, but that is something that needs to be done step by step. For me it is also just a hobby, I do not aspire to become a professional musician.

[@timshady7099]

Me too man. I love producing but its just a hobby and I dont plan to release any tracks. At most I'd like to have a collection of my own tracks that I can roll out in a DJ set, but even DJing is just a hobby for me.

[@andypender]

Don't let these scaremongering people put you off...you bought a sample pack...use it...there's nothing wrong...majority of people listen to music to enjoy it not to analyse all the nitty gritty stuff

[@computrhead]

I like this video. Music should be sharing. One person can take a loop and create something amazing. It’s about making it unique enough to call it your own. Anyways, very entertaining video.

[@middaymeds]

But that's not what happened here. Iterating upon a loop is fine but she took the full songs and made very minor changes, keeping the form completely intact.

[@computrhead]

@@middaymeds Perhaps I should of been more specific. When I meant when I said unique was to make major changes to the loop. What she did was take the samples with very minor changes. I do agree with you on that.

[@SwiftDreamer]

Like Weaver pointed out, Notlo apologizing for using samples in her apology glosses over the problem with her tracks: she basically modified stems of a finished track someone else made and called it her own with no credit. It gives using samples and loops a really bad name

[@computrhead]

@@SwiftDreamer Yeah, it certainly does.

[@sam0x2b]

​@@SwiftDreamer maybe, just maybe, there is a problem with someone hoarding rights to the samples?.. and most "royalty free" licenses have clauses that disallow you from crediting the sample pack in the track metadata

[@antiloop5297]

HELLO DAWG! ^

[@AngryCagen]

What a great talk. I've been playing music since E.T. was phoning home. Mostly guitar, bass and of course who doesn't love jumping on the drums in the jam room whenever you get a chance. But in the last couple years I have been playing the keyboard. And as far as using samples, I played with them and created songs, and while I felt I spent more time recreating or changing the original sample...hell maybe more time messing with them than a tally playing and laying down a track myself. Long story long....I never got the rewarding feeling and high I get from playing and creating my own. Like if you have been at it it all night saying no ti everything you lay down and then you finally get that sound you were NOT looking for and it's the stuff dreams are made of. Like you did a live a few weeks ago and it's beautiful, but you keep ending the bar with the audio "that sounds terrible"... among other words you say. But I get it. Every musician has ti be it's heaviest critic. New ti the channel and love the chats you throw out. Thanks for sharing. Much appreciative of the topics you cover and your take. Until your next Rant or Chant, take care my friend.

[@whizgigger]

I've released 2 albums. Literally 50% of the sounds within are barely modified samples and loops. But in my case, I don't feel bad or dread the day I'm "found out" because there's nothing to find out. I TELL people where I get all my loops from. I actually list them in the credits of every track, and even my KZbin artist profile & Spotify profile explicitly state the groups & sites I get loops and samples from. I'm not pretending I created them, and in fact whenever one of my friends says, "Hey man, your music is pretty cool" my immediate response is always "it's not really my music, they're samples, I just mixed it". I guess what I'm saying is: I totally get why someone uses loops, but I absolutely DON'T understand why someone wouldn't admit to have done so. If anything, I ENJOY the reactions of people when that lightbulb goes off on their head and they think, "oh my god I could make cool music too". I can only hope I've inspired someone somewhere to make music. The fact that NotLo used samples doesn't bother me, it just makes me confused why they didn't admit it up front. I feel like 99% of people listening to music don't even flinch at the concept of using sample packs intended to make music to...make music with. They just say, "Yeah, that's what they're for". Nobody is listening to Daft Punk and thinking "wow, they sure play a lot of instruments really well for two people". Nobody is stomping their way up to a DJ booth to admonish the DJ of playing other people's tracks. Just be upfront about your sources and I don't see an issue.

[@oxicemusic]

Nah man, you cant release two albums because you just mixed them. I wasn’t gonna disagree until you expressed that backwards train of thought. Whatever though, do you.

[@GaryR55]

Thanks. I had never heard of "bass music" until you mentioned it. I had to pause the video to look it up. Hmmm....I kinda like some treble, in fact, the entire sonic range in music, myself.

[@wired-up5677]

It's a blanket term for songs that are a mix of trap, dubstep, Halftime dnb and experimental , very focused on the low end and sounding amazing on a subwoofer

[@GaryR55]

@@wired-up5677 You should tell Wikipedia about that. They said it's just drums and bass.

[@maimonester]

Thanks for another great video!

[@SteveNilsen]

This is an exceptional well done video!

[@TheSzyko]

This is the same discussion as with using presets without changing a single thing. Some huge artists within the techno genre did this many times, but only us producers care about those things. In the end, it’s about how you use presets/samples and what you create around these ideas. I use a lot of samples, but change and resample them until you can’t recognise the originals anymore. Use others ideas and change them to your fitting. Don’t steal, get inspired. Much love Cameron, really love your content and talks. Super refreshing to hear some insights from other artists. Keep it up!

[@shadzsta]

I would imagine this also happens with some of the presets in VSTs like Falcon expansions where one single keypress and you are listening to a looped combination composition of drums, pads and sequencers. Then the first person to publish a song based on the presets gets the ID that everyone gets a warning about using the same preset.

[@jesse52175]

I can't recall the case name, but I know there was at least one instance where someone got sued, and it came down to the fact that both songs used the same preset on a Nord synth.

[@PlugInGuruVideo]

Go back in time before the internet. The Roland D-50/Korg M1 & Wavestation we prime examples of “dang Enya used THAT sound too?” This isn’t new but a bigger deal since we’re now swimming in a bazillion loops. 😊

[@shadzsta]

@@PlugInGuruVideo funny enough I did actually buy the Korg M1 VST the other week for some reason as a late night impulse purchase :)

[@FinalLifeForm]

Hilariously satisfying. Thank you for making this video.

[@stevewright8201]

This is a great take on modern sampling, when i fist stated making music (a very long time ago) samplers were very expensive and computers couldn't really handle audio, so every millisecond of sample time had to be squeezed out of the machine. there were sample CDs of course, but you had to curate and edit everything in the sampler. (ie build up your own packs on a song by song basis) it was difficult but hugely rewarding.the limitations of the machines pushed you to be more creative So I find sites like splice really suck the creativity out of making music. It's just too damn easy to be lazy. when iv'e used melodic samples or more than a couple from a single pack it kinda devalues my own perception of my music, I end feeling like a fraud and hating what "i've" created. I feel it's so much more fun and rewarding to use found sound or create my own samples from scratch. I just takes time and some work.

[@patrickpostlewait8453]

As some people have said already, what NotLo and others have done just using whole loops or tracks without much alteration simply deprives them of the rewards of learning to make music. This is a symptom of our current culture, where instant gratification is an option in every facet of our existence. People doing things simply for recognition miss out on learning and creating for the sake of it, that kind of zen feeling of getting totally absorbed and lost in a subject. Back to sampling...as i bask in nostalgia and the glory of De La Soul's catalog being available on streaming, it's definitely not a requirement to make a sample unrecognizable to make something new out of it. Dilla's chop on Stakes is High's main loop is fairly straightforward, but all of the programming, arrangement and songwriting were strong enough to make it an iconic classic. Of course, it's hard to compare to now, where so much more effort was required then to even find and filter a good section to loop. No keyword genre or bpm tags in a database to just search and instantly pull up.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

They dont care about the music they found a way to make cash and a following bringing those demo songs to a wider audience most of whom would have no idea, its cheap nasty and Notlo will never be respected by Me ever. She could come up with some incredible music all her own original creations but I'll aways think "ahh Notlo the rip off artist copy past girl whore".

[@s.j.warden801]

I agree with everything you said, just wanted to add on to the last part there - I believe the beat tags/key tags etc are a cheat code, but If you treat websites like tracklib as you going to a record store and just spinning what catches your eye - the feeling of digging feels the same. I tend to listen to tracklib records from all over the world for hours digging for nice loops. Cheers mate!

[@patrickpostlewait8453]

@@s.j.warden801 Yeah, I can totally see what you are saying. I'm not even against the ease of use of new technology if it helps creative workflow. I really like what Tracklib is doing, and that's a brilliant way to explore new music.

[@Bestmann3n]

it's not a symptom of instant gratification, it's a symptom of the fact that we live in a capitalist economy. Nobody under capitalism is able to do anything just for the sake of creativity, except people born into money.

[@HOLLASOUNDS]

@@Bestmann3n Notlo is a ripoff simple as that, I put her in the same category as Unison midi pack users lol.

[@leodaslowlymovin7610]

So, since the beginning of this year, I’ve been on a bit of a vocal kick. Trying to make as many sounds out of my vocals. And on this journey, it has been very interesting learning how to make percussion out of my vocals, bass sounds out of my vocals, trumpet sounds out of my vocals. For me sampling is not just the process of taking a sound, but learning how to manipulate the sound and creating your own sound out of it. I always run back to the same sample from a friend of mine, and I always create a new song out of that WhatsApp message that he has sent me. And all the songs I create are completely different from each other. It’s less about the sound source for me, it’s more, so what does that sound source inspiring me, and can I create something different. I always give accreditation to the artist that I sample from, because that’s where I got the inspiration from, without that artist, I wouldn’t have this song. And yet I’ve been leaning more away from using samples to other people have created, and just recording my own iPhone record.inns of sounds, I find in the environment, usually for atmospheric stuff, but sometimes I’m able to find a sweet environment where I could create some unique sounds that are more melodic. So If you were a sampler, your joy isn’t sampling. But your joy is also in creating new, sounds that you have never experienced before from the environment that preexisted your sampling. So, definitely take the plunge challenge yourself see how you can create those new sounds from recordings of your own. And if you find a recording of somebody else’s, definitely try to challenge yourself to see how you can make it uniquely different.

[@chrisconnelly6742]

Thanks for a logical out look on this

[@SgtPowell]

Sampling is an art, and like any artform, it can be done brilliantly or poorly. Producers like Prince Paul, The Dust Brothers, Cut Chemist, Bob Power, The Bomb Squad, Dr Dre, etc. are masters. Uploading a barely modified version of a sample pack is the 90s hip hop equivalent of when Diddy did Karaoke over a Police song. It may be legal but it's weak. It's a shame that the art of sampling existing music has become so complicated, prohibitively expensive and basically a boondoggle for lawyers, because the golden age of Hip Hop could've been even better if not for that fateful lawsuit involving Biz Markie which had a major chilling affect on the creativity of producers back in the day. The laws surrounding this need to be revisited and treated more like when an artist wants to cover another artist's song. Compulsory License law is the way forward.

[@neoconnor4395]

Bands like Igorrr could use a thousand samples in one song and you wouldn't even know because of how meticulous the arrangements are. It sounds like Igorrr, not whoever they might have sampled. Same goes for Skrillex.

[@thejollyjoker187]

Amon Tobin. An entire career and an entire discography based on samples, yet no one ever complained to him for stealing their music. A true artist.

[@maykstuff]

Igorrr and Skrillex in the same sentence and yet it’s perfectly valid. What a world we live in!

[@neoconnor4395]

@@maykstuff I feel like Igorrr is king of the DAW.

[@leeroyglasscock]

Never heard of Igorrr, but I am a Skrillex fan and can tell you that he’s very skilled when it comes to manipulating and mixing audio (obviously). But I can argue that a large majority of his sounds are self-created. The vocal chops, for example, are from artists who go into his studio and record a phrase. He’s also a sound designer and knows how to diligently use wavetables and LFOs to craft most of his sound selection.

[@wesleyreimer3868]

Igorrr is such an amazing artist! His projects are so creative and weird 🤘😊

[@MM4F]

Hey Man, good video… I’m sorry though, this will certainly put me in the ‘stop asking the same question’ prison.. How did you make the background music at the end, just reminds me of The Forbidden Planet.. Love it.

[@rebirth4119]

Its also weird because it seems like context comes into play at times. The Sonic Frontiers game has a dubstep soundtrack that pretty heavily utilizes Ace Aura bass samples(from the Chime/Ace Aura Disciple sample pack) to a point that anyone who's heard one or two songs of his will automatically know that those are his samples. This is especially the case since a lot of the bass loops used were originally from Ace Aura's old/new songs. But in this case it feels more like an easter egg than an insult because the song is just meant to support gameplay rather than be the selling point.

[@lyrixFH]

I have Frontiers and I didn't even notice this

[@jordanWAH]

I've done a couple of tracks using only samples, but after that, I mainly try to make the samples myself. Those 2 songs I did use samples. However, they are basically unchanged besides mastering and maybe effects. Now, it feels like it's not such a great idea in the future.

[@soundgold5666]

One of the most needed videos ever made