Rainwater Harvesting: First Flush Diverters A Waste Of Money?

[@barrylitchfield8357]

The title of your KZbin video was about "first flush diverters, and are they a waste of money". In my opinion, they work. When I open the bottom of the diverter, dirty water runs out. It's doing what was it was designed to do. You barely discussed why you think they're a waste of money. Your reply would be appreciated. Thanks.

[@0900McShizzle]

There’s a lot of misinformation here which I’d like to address. The sun does not clean the water using UV! The roof collects dust particles,bird poop and leaves. The sun will neutralize a lot of these contaminants through UV radiation but these shouldn’t be allowed to get into the water storage because it will start to beak down in the presence of water making it septic. A properly designed first flush helps remove these contaminants and it helps in reducing the amount of silt/soil that ends up in your tanks hence reducing the cleaning frequency! The first flush must be emptied after every rain since the roof is actively collecting stuff that will accumulate in the system.

[@diyertime]

I agree. First flush is important. Take a look at your flush water after a season where pollens and dust get on your roof. Yuky. regarding waste, the waste in the first flush is a nit. Most rain comes a lot at a time. Letting the first .1 inch clean the roof and not get into your tank is important. If you feel that the maintenance of the system is too much you should either hire people to do it or not do it at all. We have been on only rain for 8 years. Best thing I have ever done.

[@alwayslooking701]

The rainwater harvesting expert, engineer, lecturer and author needs to be asked: "If the first flush is so beneficial to improving the water quality, then why isn't the water in a first flush diverter incredibly clean?" 😂

[@duncansh81]

My understanding (which is early in this process) is that he was saying the inside of the storage tank has a scum layer and a biofilm. That would make it similar to a septic system. This water would be great for plants but not so great for drinking water. Letting in some organic material (bird poop, leaves, etc) adds to the scum layer and it will eventually be broken down.

[@josephbarker91]

The point made in this video is that the first flush isn't effective.

[@korndawggy1801]

So, don't drink it. If that doesnt work, just quit saving rainwater. Pray for rain and some raindancing.

[@lucasdog1]

I always see the first flush built with a tee going to the storage tank. I'm no engineer, but I built mine with a wye going to storage, so the water has to travel uphill to the tank. With the tee, once the first flush has filled, any late coming debris goes into storage. With the wye, mounted so water travels uphill, any late debris heavier than water falls back down into the catch leg, Any debris that floats is trapped above the wye until the rain stops, when it can be removed by draining the flush pipe. My storage tank looks and smells clean inside. Also, if water is scarce, the water removed from the flush leg doesnt have to be wasted. Plants dont care if they are watered with dirty water.

[@vineshdevchander1894]

I did the exact same build using à y joint rather than a T joint

[@ThaDiscoFreak]

SOUNDS LIKE A WAY BETTER SETUP

[@jarnevanbec2886]

A "Y" could be benificial, but you have to be carefull for airlock then (so you have to end in a "T" at the tank)

[@Southern195]

We are in the process of putting this together. Wish I understood what you mean. 😬

[@lucasdog1]

@@Southern195 The Y is mounted with 2 openings pointing up and one down. Water from the roof goes in the top and straight down into the first flush catch pipe. the angled opening of the Y uses an elbow to turn this pipe parallel to the ground and go to the storage. When the first flush leg gets full, the water level will be above the Y, and water going to storage will have to go up hill, making particles that are heavier than water settle back down into the first flush leg.

[@moodlemech]

That tank is transparent, perfect for algae to grow. I think the order of importance for rainwater collection goes something like this... 1. Gutter guards to avoid leaves 2. Good roof material like Colorbond steel 2. Rain head filter (as shown in video) 3. A sun-proof tank that is perfectly dark inside - unlike the video (ever seen how clear water is in a deep cave?) 4. Then finally, now you can worry about extras like first flush diverters, tank flushing etc...

[@Nihlink]

Grill cover does a good job of uv protection

[@suburbanbiology]

Nice work. I agree that first flush systems are not as effective as most people think they are. I am considering making a video showing test results of water fresh out of the spigot vs fresh out of the downspout during a rain event. Thanks for the good information.

[@vociferonheraldofthewinter2284]

In our situation, I'm disabled and my husband is aging. I have to design a system that requires the least amount of maintenance long term. Living in the rural high desert is already a lot of work and I can't be adding to it. I don't know if I can get potable water out of such a system, but I can get water that's clean enough for secondary uses (laundry, toilets, showers) That's fine enough for me. The less we pull out of the aquafer, the better.

[@rongray4118]

It is absolutely fantastic to be in the High Desert of Northern Nevada with no trees to drop leaves on our roof and to have a metal roof... looking forward to getting our 1200sq.ft. metal roof installed with the First Flush.

[@AgoristsAxioms]

So...... What is the alternative then? I am wholly unconvinced.

[@alwayslooking701]

Posters who have found numerous faults with this set up have had their posts deleted. If you want to see whether your post has been hidden, sign out and then revisit the page to see if you can see your post. Mr "engineer and rainwater harvesting expert", if you want to help people rather than shamelessly plug your book and give bad advice, stop deleting the positive comments from others who obviously know more than you do.

[@naligao1]

Not really an effective first flush diverter. With that setup (which reflects a lot of diy builds). The dirt collected will simply transfer into the main tank. There needs to be a self drainage line out of the first flush so that it empties itself out of the dirty water and ready for the next rainfall. Careful with any leaf diverter specially undersized ones or the type that installs inside the gutters. They're intended design to stop dirt can also stop rainwater from entering the inlets. Hail and meshes never works well together.

[@davidtramontana7117]

I have 2 collection systems on my house with a 10 and 12 gallon flush tanks that I drain after each rain. There is almost no smell from my main tanks, where as the flush tank water is rank. So I know it's doing something. I'm only using for lawn and gardens.

[@tjinnes]

I cant find the calculator you said would be in the links. Can you put it up? Thanks.

[@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403]

Thanks for this info! I just added gutters to my chicken coop/run and have a 55 gallon tank that feeds their water feeders. I was trying to decide if I needed a first flush diverter for my girls. I tend to go overboard, so it's nice to have people such as yourself let us know that we don't have to do everything blindly without at least finding out if we're wasting our time.

[@balznothiger906]

the FF you are showing is by far too small. Most models are. In metric the rule is the first 2 mm of rainfall off your roof must fit into your FF. So the larger the roof the larger your FF.

[@chimeranzl9147]

@3:32 to cut passed the marketing part

[@dlv0187]

Great video! Although, I would collect rainwater even if my government said not to. No one is in charge of rainwater, especially inept governments!

[@dachee]

If I am not wrong, Nature is incharge of rainwater.

[@michaelfrusciante4923]

Thank you very informative, what is the minimal you would use for a small outdoor cabin. I just bought one ibc tote. Just me and my girlfriend, Blessings

[@unpopuIaropinion]

8 minutes video - 1 minute information

[@TheBooida]

can you comment on how to figure out if your tank will freeze in the winter based on size and temperatures where you live?

[@jamesgfg6043]

Your ibc tank is uncovered. Any issue with algae growth or is it a contributer to the 'biofilm' you talk about elsewhere? Thank you.

[@LincolnHawk-bk5yr]

I can't believe some of the catchment systems on KZbin. These guys are spending hundreds of dollars on PVC pipe and fittings for absolutely nothing. Cut a hole in the top of your IBC tote the same size as your downspout, insert downspout and caulk. Take the lid off, lay a piece of screen on hole, secure it with a bungee cord or wire. Now you've got your vent and overflow all in one. First flush? My garden and lawn does not care if there is birdshlt in the water, if fact, they prefer it. If I ever have to drink from my water totes, I will filter it through a bandana and then put it through my Berkey. For what they pay for fittings, I can buy 3 more totes. Ridiculous. The guys who do these Rube Goldberg systems are definitely the hobby preppers.

[@JAMESSMITH-fn8kx]

What are your thoughts about using a UV pond clarifier in a IBC tank after catching the rainwater from my roof? I am thinking about buying the TetraPond UVC-5. I plan on doing additional purification if I choose to drink the water.

[@patrickmertz2426]

I regularly clean my Mother in Law's first flush unit and some time back removed the putrid remains of a dead bird. As you said they need regular maintence or they are a waste of time. Great video, thanks.

[@beaudjangles]

How did the bird get past the leaf diverter?

[@patrickmertz2426]

@@beaudjangles There are no trees near the house so one was never installed. The first flush still traps plenty of "crud" that washes off the roof and is worth having.

[@kingscairn]

System obviously didnt have a pre screen at entry from gutter

[@patrickmertz2426]

@@kingscairn Would a pre-screen not sort of defeat the purpose of the first flush unit?

[@annettemarin2050]

​@@patrickmertz2426 9

[@PeterWilson-dx2mx]

This installation and poor advice are poor examples for someone who promotes himself as a rainwater harvesting expert.

[@fullsleevetats]

The description alludes to a "FREE Essential rainwater harvesting tool kit", but there is no such tool, link or download available from the site. Was the tool removed? Or was the site redesigned and now the link was lost? Or is the tool no longer free to download?

[@onlyjumi]

SO WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE? It's disappointing when someone says something is a bad idea but does a bad job in providing what the alternative and preferred method is. Do better. Unsubscribing.

[@shaho3125]

So where would that lead be coming from? Particles in the atmosphere? Roof shingles?

[@markbtw7987]

Would it make sense to just put a ball valve shut-off right above the tank and below the overflow? That way after a drought, you could block the tank before the first rain. That's my plan, because you make a good point that the sludge in the first flush diverter could become septic if not cleaned which seems like it would be difficult. Turning off the valve manually is more involved but it's probably better to be more involved with your catchment system anyway.

[@WhoWouldWantThisName]

I am now leaning away from the idea of using a FF and instead doing what you suggested. We get lots of rain, except in the summer, and I'm thinking I can live with a good amount of water wasted upon first rain to ensure we don't have an eco system forming inside my piping and tanks. I'd rather have to turn a valve every now and then. Besides during the fall and most of winter and spring it rains more here than it doesn't so after the roof is washed off it would be safe to just leave it be until late spring when it stops raining every day.

[@markbtw7987]

@@WhoWouldWantThisName I built my system about 3 months ago like I was saying and it has worked really well. When I have a good reserve of water built up I just turn the ball valve closed and unscrew the cap at the bottom of the downspout so at that point it's just a normal gutter. I kind of like to run the tank down anyway so I can get a batch of fresh water when I need. The past month or two I get a good rain just about when I'm running low, so I just let it rain for an hour or two and then turn it on so I can start collecting. For filters I just use gutter-guard and pantyhose where the PVC screws on at the top of the tank. The pantyhose catches a lot of crud so I do have to change it every couple months but that's not really expensive or inconvenient. Then I just have a little 50 mesh in-line strainer before the water pump and to my surprise it hasn't needed cleaned yet. I look in the tank every so often and it's full of beautifully clear water. Pretty good system in my opinion, definitely glad I went this route. Your video helped me decide against the traditional first flush and I appreciate it!

[@WhoWouldWantThisName]

@@markbtw7987 Wow, if you only have to clean the pantyhose every couple months that's really good I would think. May I ask what kind of roofing material you have? I have regular asphalt 3 tab roofing and I think the sandy little rocks that come off of them will be the biggest problem in terms of debris making things clog or jam up Also, I am thinking I want to run a couple of barrels, or more, in the basement for the winter that way they won't freeze. if there's any special considerations you can think of related to indoor barrels with such a system I would really appreciate your two cents.

[@velociraptor7307]

How much do you spend having a good clean roof ? It is way cheaper to have a firt flush system rather that keep cleaning the collecting roof. On top of that what if the roof has some kind of abrasive layer such as asbestos? First flush diverters are not a waste of money, it depends of the type of roof you have to harvest the water.

[@Intellistan]

Video is at 5:01

[@ESLinsider]

Interesting. 4:28 or so you said the UV rays sterilize the roof. Would a certain color roof affect that? Or what about if you are in a rainy area with little sunlight? Does that sterilization still work?

[@0900McShizzle]

There’s a lot of misinformation here which I’d like to address. The sun does not clean the water using UV! The roof collects dust particles,bird poop and leaves. The sun will neutralize a lot of these contaminants through UV radiation but these shouldn’t be allowed to get into the water storage because it will start to beak down in the presence of water making it septic. A properly designed first flush helps remove these contaminants and it helps in reducing the amount of silt/soil that ends up in your tanks hence reducing the cleaning frequency! The first flush must be emptied after every rain since the roof is actively collecting stuff that will accumulate in the system.

[@aaron4135]

This man has no clue what he is talking about when it comes to water.

[@KatyWantsToGo]

Hey man, your link to the book is no good…

[@raymondjarvis1090]

OMG. congrats for trying but you have no idea . Too much intellectual theorizing when you miss the obvious practical things. For a start the strainer is far too small and is a poor cousin to the original Leafeater brand that does work by proper design. If you set up a first flush diverter properly and understand it's operation correctly, they do work. The comment from 3in1 Supadiverta are very relevant.

[@3in1Supadiverta]

Looks like all of my comments have been censored. 😳 A pity because they were of positive benefit plus they had a large number of likes.

[@msf2126]

only in the usa and canada would there exist ANY law restricting a person collecting their own water to use in their own home . insane

[@joeveneklase711]

Why isn’t his tanks wrapped?

[@savannaswildnatureworkshop7810]

Good video...but sooooo serious..lighten up a bit..smile once in while..it will work wonders for your mood and stress. Give it try ! Savanna

[@richardlove4287]

I alway thought that a good sand filter and a pool cleaner used one a year would clean the water tanks out nicely.

[@vinceamato1201]

Look at 4:34 !! The screen is open. Pulled away from the frame. Also manufacturing error on screen - it's not flat at bottom to discharge the debris. Who designed that? YES That flush diverter IS a waste of money.

[@senoJSR]

Rain water, generally, has insufficient levels of minerals, and drinking it, in the long term, is not a good idea.

[@Thelivewire64]

Missed spelling: (Do flush diverters play the important role they are though to?) Thought to?

[@justin6125]

Imagine "needing permission" to harvest rain water 😂😂😂 nature has given us everything we need to live and survive "Man" has taken that natural right away from you!

[@theusconstitution1776]

Or in some places when you buy 20 acres of land and you drill well now these politicians want to put a meter on that well they want you to pay for the installation and the meter and they want to charge you for that water! These people are getting out of hand😡

[@markovnikovrxn2007]

I clean my roof often and always found particles going down the pipes from the roof after rains. I have a flush diverter, but agree if there is no enough rain is waste to have it. Trying to have the cleanest watrr posible into the tank I installed a sediment spindown filter (basically a housing with a mesh that pass water but trap the dirt and send it to waste) have a sediment filter. Although thanks were having significant less dirt inside, the filter is easily clogged. So i let the outlet a little bit open, but again, i waste water doing so. So, i was wasting to much time cleaning the spindown filter, and occasionally i forgot to do so and i wasted days of rainf caused it was clogged, so no water reached the tank. I found that the pvc pipes had a film inside black/green, even flung algae. So i consider that the worst contributor to dirt in the water tank were the pvc pipes. So filter should be closest to the entrance of the tank. Window screen and some type of cloth or pillow filler i think is the ideal material to solve the problem but at a hight were you reach it easily for maintenance purposes. Anyone found this problem with the pipes?

[@tfildaed]

Unless pipes are drained after each rain, film on the inside of them will occur in warm areas.

[@markovnikovrxn2007]

@@tfildaed yes¡..agree.. thank you.

[@sergei971]

You can always use a reverse osmosis system or maybe just add a sediment filter plus carbon filter and UV light to treat the water. That should do the trick. Run a small water pump using solar.

[@EdwardVanNatta]

I am looking for about your product place lace me a message . When I post this , I am looking for information no this . Nerf machine you have can help me appreciate thank you very much have a safe day all how can I find your book or any other books you have

[@TheOffGridTinyHouse]

mine failed after 2 years i am very disappointed

[@lauriestrachan2777]

The first flush system depends on a light plastic ball flirting up to close the valve. These balls crack and full with water quite quickly, ruining the point of the system.

[@kingscairn]

Thats just dumb - goes to maintence once in awhile - lazy , unresponsible people should have nanny's their whole life - stupid should hurt

[@lauriestrachan2777]

@@kingscairn You know nothing about me, my house (which I left a year ago) or how often I used to carry out maintenence on my water system or even the nature and quality of the system itself yet you abuse me. That makes you a moron. It's you who needs the nanny.

[@TheScottEF]

Not all plastic is the same. You could use PETE and that won't crack for decades.

[@peteroldroyd7531]

ANOTHER MORON !!!

[@RobCooper]

Somehow I knew sludge and biofilm were going to be the solution to not needing the first flush.

[@0900McShizzle]

That’s because his set up is wrong! He doesn’t empty it after every rain fall plus it’s under sized leading to dirty water from the roof finding it’s way into the storage tank

[@JustinStraussner]

When you said there is no evidence that this improves high quality…water, I know you you were about to say H2O. 😜

[@livingoffthegrid6956]

Thank you so much and I subscribed! 😊

[@prepping_essentials]

Great video - Thanks

[@lukewarm2075]

High Quality H2O

[@lauriestrachan2777]

That should, of course, be floating.

[@neilcalliou896]

Where would all of that lead come from? Pollutants in the air? Thanks Rob!

[@VergePermaculture]

Yes. Coal power.

[@neilcalliou896]

@@VergePermaculture wow I don't think I want to know. What's in fort Saskatchewan's rain . Thanks again Rob.

[@MaximumEfficiency]

aliminium/barium in chemtrails

[@JR-of5hp]

@@MaximumEfficiency shhhh , we’re trying to keep that a conspiracy theory lol

[@JAMESSMITH-fn8kx]

UV Clarifiers

[@stevelucier8346]

Dupe!

[@RobGraham048]

i have seen rainwater flush system done for less than 20 USD. just build it yourself, they are not that hard. Not sure why anyone would pay 70 for one.

[@jasonmeanshealer]

I need to learn how to do this

[@PeterWilson-dx2mx]

The presenter claims to be an engineer and expert yet he lacks the ability to recognise problems and innovate solutions.