Very cold starting! Glow plugs failed! - Land Rover Freelander 2

Video showing a technique I used to start my diesel Freelander 2 in recent cold weather

[@tstuart7333]

I fully agree, My LRF2 also dislikes the cold. Brake Cleaner! I'm holding my breath I also blanked of the EGR valve, I done the same 3 years ago with my Rover 75 2.0 CDT1 Conn, it made such a difference to the engine, so responsive and still the same today. Thank you for all the tips and how 2s.

[@Tigermoto]

I know this is an old video now, but the reason the diesel engines are supposed to be cranking is that old 2-stroke diesels could actually be started in reverse. I don't know if modern 4 stroke could do this, but I very much doubt Holts would discount someone using it in an old 2-stroke. They're still around after all.

[@BeavisPits]

Interesting, thanks

[@robertlincoln7312]

Thanks for the vid. I used easy start once and sprayed it through " your " blue air intake, my car started straight away. Now when it gets cold at night I put a double layer of carpet underlay over the engine. This has worked really well and keeps the battery a bit warmer. Take the underlay off the engine before starting.

[@BeavisPits]

Nice idea, may try that!

[@robertlincoln7312]

@@BeavisPits Leave yourself a note on the dashboard to remove the underlay before starting. Cheers.

[@stevegill9704]

My dad always wrapped a blanket round engine of his van every night !! I always thought he was bonkers lol

[@robertlincoln7312]

@@stevegill9704 I promise you, us old people are not bonkers.

[@stevegill9704]

When I started work at co-op as a van lad in 1980 ,the driver would get us to spray easy start through air intake while they turned engie over to get the old Leylands trucks started lol Happy days

[@willineumann9551]

thanks for your video put 3 gallons of hot water slowly on the engine and your car starts 100 %. my Land Rover had the same problem by minus 3 cg .

[@AdeptHavelock]

Weird that you posted this Scott. Whilst my MY15 FL2 starts fine, regardless of temp (-8 deg. being the lowest so far) and obviously still has good GP's) my MY06 Disco 3 is really struggling atm. Rather than use brake cleaner, or easy start, there's a workaround with the Disco where you can pour warm water on the coolant temp. sensor or another, which I've implemented, where you put a 5k ohm resistor and momentary switch in parallel with the sensor. That way, when it's below zero, you press the switch and it fools the ECU into thinking the engine is about 20 degrees C and it adjusts the fuel mapping accordingly. Disco starts first time, and you release the switch. Admittedly, it does sound like a tractor and blow like a Panzer at first, but in a fix it gets the job done! I really need to get my FBH running reliably as a parking heater, but have been waiting for some tips from your install 😉

[@BeavisPits]

Strange that it starts better when thinking it is warmer. You’d think it would be the other way around.

[@alexberry5118]

Started mine on Hair spray last week as I was in middle of nowhere and it was all I could find Also Easystart will work better if it’s warm Used to put tin under armpit when I had an old diesel s2a😅

[@BeavisPits]

Hairspray?! Wow! Good to hear that works too in an absolute emergency! Bet the exhaust smelt nice!

[@jamiebyrne6907]

Glad it's not just my FL2 in this weather. When we had -10 it took me over 40 minutes to get it started

[@Stura_tv]

my car just did not start, back to 0 and it was ok, gotta love an old landy

[@spacefreeman]

Well, I own FL2 SD4 restyled version manufactured for russian market. It is equipped with webasto heater (which burns diesel inside to warm up coolant), so it makes life little bit easier, but I have to keep an eye on the battery, especially in winter time. However, this winter were couple of mornings with -22C, so only second attempt to start the engine was successful. What is important here is keep ~ 25 seconds pause between attempts, glow plugs are heating about that time, although there is no sign in control panel.

[@spacefreeman]

My opinion is based on pretty nice video about glow plugs timings v=59xxQZNOHjg It is russian, but english subtitles are available.

[@BeavisPits]

I’m fitting a webasto. Big project so the weather may warm up before it is ready. I’ve tried waiting longer for the glowplugs to heat up but they are all blown (open circuit).

[@robertharvey9698]

Same engine in Mk4.5 (facelift) Mondeo. I just changed the glow plugs - job jobbed 👍

[@BeavisPits]

Was it difficult to do on a Mondeo? I’ve heard that it is really difficult on a freelander2.

[@robertharvey9698]

@@BeavisPits Not especially, a bit fiddly, but doable. The front crash panel is slightly lower on the Mondeo than the FL, which helps. Go to the Talk Ford forum, and have a search around under the Diesel Engine section. There are a number of posts there, including from me with some Pics. I’ve actually done the job twice as I changed my car and did it on the old one and then the new one. The first time I accessed them by just removing the fuel filter assembly and throttle body for access - as I was only changing the glow plugs. The second time I went the whole hog and replaced the inlet manifold and changed the glow plugs as I was in there anyway. I actually found a very useful KZbin video of changing them on an LR Freelander - so have a search and you will find. The Mondeo, facelift at least, has the 5v plugs with the same control module as you mentioned. Armed with the KZbin video I mentioned and the Talk Ford info you won’t have any problem. You will have back-ache though. For info, on the first car, all four had gone open circuit within 85k, on the second car they were all still good at 88k, so I changed them anyway as I was in there & for the sake of another £40 for genuine parts it made sense to do. Good luck 👍

[@Stura_tv]

same here, just does not like the cold, thought it was the battery which might have been the first case the first time, I now start the car put the aircon on and wait a min before pressing the start again... Magic well so far its working

[@deannabristow7965]

Hi. Thanks for all the information and videos helps lots. My freelander 2.2. 2012 would not start as try 4 to 5 times so I did what you said the 2 stage start and it work. Thanks

[@petermorris3665]

Definitely agree with the 2 - stage start sequence you show here - Mine started much easier today at -5 deg C using that method than it did yesterday at -5 deg (When I forgot to use it). Mine is a 2010 MY / 59 plate and I do get the glow plug delay on the Normal single-press start. Thankfully, I changed all 4 of my glow plugs when I removed my swirl flaps (At around 73,000 miles) and all 4 still worked!

[@BeavisPits]

How hard was it to change the plugs and do the flaps?

[@petermorris3665]

@@BeavisPits Removing manifold takes time and patience. Some fuel line release clips (Green) can be brittle so care needed. Change the Fuel filter at the same time as IIRC it is removed to get the manifold off. Plugs are easy (Run the engine to temp before starting the job and spray release fluid around them whilst your doing the flaps/rod). Hardest part, for me, was removing the swirl flaps / actuating rod from the manifold. Others say this is easy but I found it hard but at least that is done on the workbench. Worth de-crudding the manifold at the same time. Good luck!

[@Ian-2022]

@@BeavisPits You've done a lot of harder jobs so you needn't worry. I also changed inlet manifold gaskets when I did mine. Just take your time 👍

[@russ4972]

Another good vid Scott. Glow plug change video incoming? I actually got a quote from my local garage of £230. Seemed reasonable for the job.

[@BeavisPits]

That is very reasonable! They are a pain to get to, and can also shear off quite easily. Not a job I’m looking forward to!

[@nollaig8353]

Drill a small hole in the blue pipe for the nozzle pipe for spraying..It can then be closed with a self tapping screw.

[@BeavisPits]

I have thought about doing this. Maybe a Fast & Furious style boost button rigged up to a can of easystart! 😂

[@Marcturbo1]

Nice video. The throttle flap is for egr to create more exhaust priority, as its turbocharged. Without it you get antilag, not egr lol. It's not for engine stopping. The glow plugs, once warming increase in resistance so only pull 15 amps. Ohms law doesnt really work like real world if you test cold. Your main issue is poor cranking rpm to be honest. That has a huge impact. 😊

[@BeavisPits]

The issue here was that all glowplugs high resistance (burnt out) so no help at all. It was very cold, well below zero, so even with a new starter motor it would probably still struggle.

[@Marcturbo1]

@BeavisPits I do think it's daft they don't delay. Mine doesn't either. Crappie software.

[@francb1276]

A clue as to why stuff like hair spray and (non-flammable) brake cleaner works could be the propellant, which is usually butane or propane... 😉 Incidentally, (touching wood!) never had any problem with my 2012 model SD4.

[@BeavisPits]

Brake cleaner is naptha/xylene, both very flammable. I don’t think there is a separate propellant, just the volatile gas pressure. Hairspray will use a propellant, butane or something. Older non-flammable trichloroethane brake cleaner should never be used, toxic/carcinogenic when burnt.

[@francb1276]

@@BeavisPits Ah, ok. I didn't know the makeup of the more modern stuff! I must admit I thought trike was now banned anyway for the reasons you say. My comments apply then to any non-flammable aerosol can active ingredients, which will be propelled by LPG now that R12 has long been illegal. I think that makes any can useable but its other contents may of course be nasty (either to people or engines) when burnt! Having said that, I suspect an exception would be aerosol fire extinguishers 😉😛

[@paulpiscina5906]

Took me about 5 mins to get mine going this morning, it was -5 car hadn’t been started for day and a half. Done the two stage start but it just weren’t having it. Eventually it caught but boy it’s never been that bad before.

[@BeavisPits]

Glad to hear you got it running eventually, and it’s also good to hear that it’s not just me having difficulty in this weather!

[@petergarner5991]

Hello, I live in Sweden and we have it cooler than you. I've not had any problems with starting. What oil do you use? If you have a real problem then fit an engine heater. I know in Finland it's law you have to sell new cars with engine heaters because of the winter. Good video, interesting.

[@BeavisPits]

I expect your glowplugs are working, plus you have engine heaters. I’m working on fitting a Webasto diesel fired heater.

[@petergarner5991]

@@BeavisPits looking forward to watching the engine heater fitting.

[@Rpoul87]

Tried out a straight start at -5deg last night (2008 model). There was a few second hesitation and then starts straight off. No symbol on the dash. Changed the plugs last month.

[@BeavisPits]

Working glow plugs are essential at -5’C. Sounds like yours are heating but the bulb has gone in your instrument cluster. Was it difficult to change the plugs?

[@Rpoul87]

@@BeavisPits not too bad of a job. Be careful when moving fuel lines as they get brittle, and a good chance to check and protect the alternator exciter cable (thin blue cable)it’s prone to rubbing through. Also change the manifold gaskets if you’re going down the manifold off option. Interesting vid on the LR Time channel on glow plugs.

[@random-person1]

are people saying that if you dont press and hold the starter button without your foot on the clutch the car will figure out if it needs to use the glow plugs? if so, THEY dont know what they are talking about. most cars will work out of the glow plugs are needed or not, but the FL2 i have, and my friend has the same model (same year) and we both have to press and hold the starter button to make the glow plugs come on!

[@BeavisPits]

The car is meant to work out if they are needed or not, based on coolant temperature. The double press method gives them more heating time and allows the self-check current to fall first.

[@dazer123]

You could also just fit new Glo plugs

[@BeavisPits]

Yes, I will, but it is a major job on FL2, they are very difficult to get to. Not a job for this time of year.

[@dazer123]

@@BeavisPits I look forward to seeing that video dude 😎

[@magnusfranzonuvebrant9519]

Tou are RIGHT!

[@robertrogers8440]

i have recently had a new high speed starter fitted and it wizzes the engine round so fast it starts -10 no problem. before -3 and it was a pig ! why can't you spray into the airfilter, just undo the clips ! Not a fan of sprays and closer to the engine the more brutal the response when it fires up! Thank you very good vid.

[@BeavisPits]

Air filter is almost 3m from the engine, so takes a lot of cranking to get the spray into the chambers. I will try a new starter motor just to see if it helps. I don’t think it will, but I’m happy to spend the £200 and be proved wrong!

[@robertrogers8440]

@@BeavisPits I had the same problem with manitou telescopic from new it wouldn't start below freezing and i had a high speed starter fitted and it starts first time every time now no heating ! Please ask others before investing and see the response, but it must be a higher speed than standard. Bon courage from France.

[@BeavisPits]

What make is your new starter? I can only see Lucas or Denso available. Neither are labelled as high speed.

[@robertrogers8440]

@@BeavisPits I can't see the name on it sorry, the only thing i can is the number H21268 if that means anything ?

[@HoodedCrow100]

Interesting, I was watching your older video about cold starting last night, turning on waiting 10 seconds for the glow plugs to pre warm then starting the engine. Very cold where I am at the moment -6c last night and my old HSE 2007 FL 2 has struggled to start (it will, but slower than usual and sluggish to turn over until it gets going, has new fully charged battery) One thing I've noticed after following your videos is that the my glow plug symbol doesn't show at all on the dash, not even for a second, or when the cars doing a system check, nothing!. I don't think I've ever noticed it come on since I've owned it. Would this be more likely a relay, fuse or electrical fault rather than dead glow plugs? I only ask as I noticed your glow plug dash light came on in this video even though you said they are all dead.

[@BeavisPits]

The light is on the relay trigger side as far as I know. My light works, and relay clicks, but no current through my plugs as all four have burnt out. Check you coolant temperature sensor as that is what the computer reads to decide whether to use the glowplugs or not. Check for fault codes too. If it was me, I’d hard wire a push button from 12V to the glowplug feed as a temporary measure to manual heat them before starting.

[@HoodedCrow100]

@@BeavisPits Thanks! I will look into the coolant sensor, didn't know about that affecting the glow plugs coming on. Will also try swapping the R6 Relay from the heated screen as I know this is working into the glow plugs relay socket as you mentioned at the beginning of the video, wondering if this may be the problem of the dash light not showing. Will ordered a new diagnostic reader and see what it comes up with, cars getting old 15 + years now. Have noticed more things failing in the last few years, most I manage to fix myself, I really like the old girl and I'm loathed to part with her! 🤞🏻

[@tonyrowell6157]

i have this trouble with my fl2 as well beavis it's a real pain in the ass,great video again though,can you tell me please on your gearbox oil change video the oil you use is it for just the manual box or for automatic box too? thanks buddy

[@BeavisPits]

Only for manual gearbox.

[@tonyrowell6157]

could you recommend oil for the auto please

[@rjbfreelander2]

Thanks for the video Scott. wonder what is causing the starting issue though. Seems odd to not want to fire at -6.

[@BeavisPits]

All glowplugs blown

[@hilary2668]

Hi, will you be doing a video on changing your glow plugs, would be a great video, thanks

[@BeavisPits]

Yes I will be. In a couple of months when the weather is warmer.

[@hilary2668]

That's great, I will be looking forward to it, thanks, 👍

[@magnusfranzonuvebrant9519]

Addicted … 😅

[@BeavisPits]

How is it possible?

[@nigelwoodhouse2073]

Burns very hot, causing the cylinders surface to harden which then polishes resulting in a loss of seal between rings and bores and thus a drop of compression making it even harder to start so will then need easy start even in warm weather, thus the addicted effect.

[@jonathanquick2574]

Any one else here from The UK Great Freeze Jan 2024

[@sindyvanstaden9976]

Great info thank you. One question, I changed my glow plugs, tested the new plugs and the relay was swabbed out, but according to the obd it says glow plugs open circuit, I did not test the F4 fuse . what resistance should it be and is it changeable if faulty

[@BeavisPits]

The fuse will be short circuit if good and open circuit if bad.

[@sindyvanstaden9976]

@@BeavisPits thanks for the feedback, my 60 amp fuse is dead and I will replace it

[@filipgraorkovski3063]

Try it with Honda, or, Mercedes on -20° , they will start in about 5/7 secounds. Cheers

[@BeavisPits]

Glow plugs working no doubt?

[@thisispointless29]

Glow plugs or not shouldn’t have too much trouble starting in this temp. No wonder yours doesn’t start with your crank speed being that horrifically slow! Get a new starter motor on there, bad starter could also be drawing massively more currently than a good one which would mean not much power available to power the glow plugs to the best of their ability.

[@BeavisPits]

I actually thought it was cranking pretty quickly. You may be correct, the starter is original so 13 years old now. It could do with being renewed. Even with faster cranking, I think it would still struggle with faulty glowplugs.

[@thisispointless29]

@@BeavisPits I’d honestly say it’s cranking nearly half as fast as mine, mine has had all 4 glow plugs burnt out for years (until i replaced them recently) however never had an issue starting once in all them years over the cold winter months, just a little smokey. Think denso are OE for starter motors for these engines, however the terminal broke off on mine and now has a Lucas one fitted which has also been fine.

[@BeavisPits]

Thanks, I’m happy to spend the money and try this. The starter is 13 years old so renewing it wouldn’t do any harm. It will make an interesting video, even if it doesn’t make the car start any easier in cold weather.

[@MAX19802010]

Мне кажется у Вас свечи накала не работают. Первый раз вижу, что в запуск на дизеле брызгают. Это же не i6. Я в -28 завожу без подогрева Webasto - без проблем.

[@BeavisPits]

Correct! Glowplugs all failed. Webasto being fitted soon!

[@pauldlewis3138]

I always use the 2 stage start and Allthough my car starts ok, I have never seen the glow plug symbol on the dash even in the cold weather below 5 degrees ..... is there a check I can make ?

[@BeavisPits]

The simplest check is to get an assistance to listen to the relay while you start in cold weather. It should click and then unclick after a while, as the plugs get powered. On later facelift models there is no relay, it is a control module so you’ll need to test the output with a meter. Check the fuse too.

[@jonstevens5962]

I use a NOCO on my battery 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@BeavisPits]

What is that?

[@petergarner5991]

@@BeavisPits I think it's a battery start help.

[@richardwallace4509]

Hi b.p. did it start the next day.

[@BeavisPits]

Yes, started fine above 0’C, but needs a spray below freezing.

[@johnmcphee2201]

would it not be easier to change the glow plugs?

[@BeavisPits]

Not really, it’s a major job on the FL2. Inlet manifold needs to come off and then there is the risk of the plugs snapping. I am going to tackle this very soon.

[@stevegill9704]

I have 2011 sports LE , there is no glow plug symbol lighting up on my dash ?

[@BeavisPits]

Your car will probably have the 5V plugs driven by a control module. It may be faulty. The light will only come on when very cold.

[@stevegill9704]

Thanks for the information 👍

[@jockwasher]

You don't happen to be an MSP marketing expert do you?

[@BeavisPits]

Er, no sorry

[@louisjames1062]

Did you notice any difference with the hard pipe inlet?

[@BeavisPits]

Do you mean the silicone ducting?

[@louisjames1062]

@@BeavisPits yes. Over the stock plastic inlet. Iv just done then catch can mod, I’m venting back in to inlet tho.

[@BeavisPits]

@@louisjames1062 no performance increase, but that wasn’t why I did it, it was because the factory duct leaks oil from the joint above the hot turbo. It looks better too!

[@honzabeda3444]

😂 hello - 3 isnt very cold start.

[@BeavisPits]

It is in southern UK! 😂