Very High Lift Coefficient Wings: The latest developments

Рет қаралды 47,945

Electric Aviation

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 118

@Devo491 Ай бұрын

So glad I found you! The YT algorithm just had a win. Your production crew are f'n amazing! Thank you to all.

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

Welcome aboard!

@m.i.andersen8167 Ай бұрын

Yes! It was very interesting. It seems that these techniques are much more energy efficient and have a much healthier design for all flight between takeoff and landing than "true" VTOLs

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

I totally agree!

@markthomasson5077 Ай бұрын

Thanks. For electric aircraft STOL seems a much better solution than chasing VTOL.

@CNCAddict Ай бұрын

Thanks so much for making these videos, super informative and well thought out!!!

@bernieharperyt Ай бұрын

A category missing from this analysis is the Custer lifting duct design. A NASA analysis of the Custer duct reported a lift coefficient so powerful vertical takeoff was possible. The problem they identified was excessive drag and limited top speeds. That caveat is a simple design problem that has a number of obvious solutions. It is crazy they have not been investigated.

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

I have made a video on Custer Channel Wings.

@bernieharperyt Ай бұрын

@ElectricAviation Yes, I was excited you decided to cover it. But I was surprised you never did a follow-up. The drag issue is surely solvable with some active aero tweaks? Also, I wonder why Custer never thought to merge his design with a gyroplane? It's failure modes are trivial when you can save the aircraft with an autorotation landing.

@PRH123 Ай бұрын

They’ve been investigated, a German company was at one point planning to try to manufacture a channel wing based aircraft. The issue is that the design requires a twin engine layout, which immediately makes it too expensive for the light GA market. Those twin engines need to be cross shafted for redundancy in the case of the failure of one, which is weight, complexity and cost. So you end up with a big complex expensive aircraft, the potential customers of which would be comparing it to turbine helicopters, which would have some advantages, such as true hovering with full control. Multiple electric motors though could change this equation, which is an interesting possibility.

@kennethcohagen3539 Ай бұрын

Thank you for this series of videos! It’s very interesting and tells us what to expect in the future. One thing you and your viewers might be interested is the flap set up used by Mike Patey on his Scrappy Aircraft design. Patey used multiple layers of flaps quite successfully on this aircraft. The wings generated enough lift that he could hang motorcycles from them and still fly where he wanted to go. Very cool!

@VickersDoorter Ай бұрын

Back in the early 1970s at school, making obligatory delta-shaped paper planes out of A4 paper, I came up with the idea of adding a 90 degree upturn at the tip and did seem to improve the ability to get a straighter flight line. Now, many years later, as we all know, many commercial airliners have that very 90 degree wing tip feature. Obviously, I cannot claim any credit for what has transpired to be a missed opportunity.

@ThisPartIsAndrew Ай бұрын

Winglets reduce turbulence and even a duck knows you cannot trademark this lol good joke though

@jwadaow Ай бұрын

@@ThisPartIsAndrew It's not a trademark it's a patent application. There are a lot of filed patents relating to different aspects of winglets. The first was in 1897 by Frederick W. Lanchester and the first patented functional winglets in 1910. Anyone could have patented the idea or an adaptation to the idea that is original. They still do. www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/sp-4529.pdf

@JavierChiappa 4 күн бұрын

I think the new wingtips is using multiple "feathers" as condors and eagles do. Probably kills the vortex before it gets to form.

@tucksiver8763 Ай бұрын

Very good video as usual.

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

Thanks for your appreciation

@jfkastner Ай бұрын

Always interesting and well presented! Thank You.

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

I try my best

@peterweinberg4504 Ай бұрын

Some disadvantages of distributed propulsion: (i) no part of the aerofoil will be in the laminar flow regime, increasing drag, (ii) the streamlines will not align with the chord, and the angle will vary with spanwise position, making the aerofoil shape sub-optimal in most places, (iii) a large surface area (the wing) will be exposed to air with a higher-than-necessary speed, generating extra drag, (iv) lots of smaller propellers are less efficient than one big one, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, (v) you will need a VERY long runway and good tyres/brakes when the battery runs out mid-air.

@davejob630 27 күн бұрын

Most underrated comment .

@tedarcher9120 5 күн бұрын

With so many props you can just autorotate

@peterweinberg4504 4 күн бұрын

@@tedarcher9120 No.

@cinilaknedalm Ай бұрын

This is so excting. Distributed propulsion just sounds and is awesome

@AnMuiren Ай бұрын

Excellent presentation. Thank you.👍🏽

@martingraser6938 Ай бұрын

A maximum information in this short Video. Excellent!

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@tbuyus8328 Ай бұрын

Would love a video that looks at the potential use cases of hybrid electric estol: eg a cheaper version of heli-skiing, low-cost island microairports,...@@ElectricAviation

@williambunting803 Ай бұрын

I have a wing concept for a 3 seat amphibian in which I twist the inner two thirds of the wing so the wing transitions from an ultralight configuration (low lift low drag low landing angle of attack) to a microlight (high lift high drag high angle of attack) configuration. The advantage is high angle lower landing speed with a very precise touch down threshold hold. This ideal for short field operation, while the flat wing ultralight configuration allows higher cruise speed. Look at the A380 in full flap landing configuration to get the idea, but in achieving this by twisting the wing leading edge up and trailing edge down there are several other effects that occur to increase the lift for very low speed short field landings.

@rjung_ch Ай бұрын

Thank you, this was very interesting. 👍💪✌

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@SpiritofDaniel 28 күн бұрын

I would like to add that using tubercles like the humpback whale flipper leaving and trailing edge, I have experienced making them on a stainless steel 16/16 water propeller for a pedal-powered catamaran. They can be used on airfoils as well as propellers with great effect. They say you can double the angle of attack with the same amount of drag. This could be the last component for maximum efficiency.

@DANTHETUBEMAN Ай бұрын

Tjat ladt rake ifc was UNBELIEVABLE 😮😮😮😮 thanks for sharing the technology

@JinKee Ай бұрын

Can you put these new shapes into propellers?

@piolenc 25 күн бұрын

Distributed propulsion looks very attractive since it doesn't require elaborate hinged structures.

@johnmarkgatti3324 Ай бұрын

Lots of Fun being had , [ though no mention of the channel wing ? ]. STOL bush planes like the zenith are getting in the air at around 100 ft ,and some of the ultralights are landing in there own length ,plop ! , this is with out to many more fancy add on's . I have seen info on an antinov being able to basically descend in a controlled mushy stall . It certainly saves huge energy ,flying off vs VTOL , and way more efficient travel .

@williambunting803 Ай бұрын

The Waldo Waterman Aerobile was virtually un scalable and did a controlled mush stall landing. I have a dramatic improvement to the channel wing designed which gives it full VTOL capability but with high speed cruise capability. I haven’t built a drone version for it yet.

@free_spirit1 Ай бұрын

I really enjoy your videos. Very good formula.

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

Glad you like them!

@butterflyfpv 12 күн бұрын

Great work my friend! Thumbs up and subscribed!

@ilkoderez601 Ай бұрын

Wait, did I miss that RCtestflight video?!?! I have to pause and check his channel quick :) Edit: That video is 2 years old LOL. Thanks love the channel!

@edcew8236 Ай бұрын

What about Mike Patey's double leading edge slats?

@dutchflats Ай бұрын

Generally speaking, high coefficient airfoils sections have been used on slow aircraft. Their use on STOL airplanes has been around for a long time though.

@cementeagle3596 Ай бұрын

a distributed propulsion seaplane stol performance would be great . so many ponds and lakes and oceans .

@billcawthorne3114 Ай бұрын

I like your teaching style. Presented information is eye opening. why is there such rare examples of this in general aviation? For safety only, this is an example of the slowest speed, reducing the stall speed so dramatically makes for less G loading in an accident.

@martingarrish4082 Ай бұрын

Good technical coverage of e-STOL. Honestly, I think these will be where electric aviation becomes widespread first.

@rags417 Ай бұрын

Would it be efficient to have an effective biplane configuration that recessed into a single double width wing after takeoff ? All the advantages of Fowler flaps and slats with even more wing area for lift at takeoff but reduced drag for cruising.

@georgechoquette5735 Ай бұрын

Thank you for all your videos. Question; Should the propeller airflow be above the wing or below? I would think it should be above, but I don't see that often.

@brianfhunter Ай бұрын

On Both equally. The propeller is just giving More Air Speed for the wing aerodynamics to work. Its like a Combustion engine Turbo, but for wings.

@ulrichraymond8372 Ай бұрын

Can wing tip losses be reduced by introducing a charge on the wing at higher elevation and speeds near the ionosphere

@ThisPartIsAndrew Ай бұрын

Another consideration is to have boundary layer control from a compressed air tank that is filled on the ground before takeoff

@sergeigen1 Ай бұрын

wow, very cool, what an exciting time for aviation

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

It sure is!

@JulianMakes 15 күн бұрын

Very interesting thank you.

@RahulVerma-ce1zg Ай бұрын

This can be so groundbreaking

@RePeteAndMe Ай бұрын

1:34 "high lift coefficient can be achieved" which is offset because propulsive efficiency is trashed. This is why NASA'S Maxwell project stows its (extremely inefficient) distributed props during normal flight.

@PRH123 Ай бұрын

Thanks, good point

@johnwale2886 Ай бұрын

This is an interesting video. I wonder, what are the failure modes of a blown flap design? Specifically, if the engine fails during takeoff, what does that mean for the handling compared to an engine-out situation in a conventional aircraft?

@mrjweate Ай бұрын

For a very short landing in a plane with “blown-wing”(lots of little propellers), you need to slow down without losing lift. But to maintain lift, you must maintain air speed over the wings. How do we address this conflict?

@FeralRabbit Ай бұрын

Good vid as usual.

@ronrothrock7116 Ай бұрын

I an not an aircraft expert, but if I do not miss my guess, an aircraft with higher coefficient are more susceptible to turbulent air. If more lift is obtained from air at low speeds, then high wind gusts hit that wing, then the aircraft will bounce more violently. Is this addressed by any of these craft?

@Tiagomottadmello 22 күн бұрын

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

@FLORIDIANMILLIONAIRE Ай бұрын

Just increase angle of attack the lift will go up to a certain extent

@tedarcher9120 5 күн бұрын

Is that at 0 degree aoa or at max aoa?

@tomellis4750 Ай бұрын

A single engined plane, such as the Cessna in the video, has the engine fixed to the fuselage. Would there be any advantage if it could tilt up and down, perhaps to enable a greater angle of wing attack for take off and landing?

@PRH123 Ай бұрын

How would tilting the engine enable a greater angle of attack?

@tomellis4750 Ай бұрын

@@PRH123 My thought, probably as ridiculous as it is, was that, were the engine lowered, the rest of the aeroplane, along with wings, could be angled up, thus increasing the angle of attack. Were there any merit it the idea, it would probably be easier to angle the wings. It amuses me to have ideas.

@PRH123 Ай бұрын

@@tomellis4750 yes, would be easier just to pitch the whole aircraft upwards, using the elevators, as is done on most aircraft now There were experiments done in the past with aircraft that allowed the wings to freely rotate around the spar, the idea was they would auto adjust to the optimum angle of attack, but I don’t think such an aircraft ever went into production. There was an us naval aircraft that allowed the whole wing plane to move upwards like 5 degrees, for carrier operations, I think mostly to preserve visibility for the pilot when the wing was at high angles of attack.

@ttmallard 28 күн бұрын

From studies & windtunnel charts, leading-edge flaps do well, yet the wing itself cross-section like a ? on its side creates a high-lift vortex w/o the solid the best weird wing that works ! Fwiw 🤷‍♂️

@shiningirisheyes Ай бұрын

Thanks. There exists a wing with blowers set at about maximum top wing that keeps wing shorter length and probably ~25% thick foil with a sorta stepped wing after the front section leading edge. stepped at highest point on top foil . It's sorta like Clark Y wing fairly flat bottom and very thick ~25% thick leading edge It's starting at zero going to top thickest on top ~ 25% . Instead to gradually curve down to trailing edge from top at ~25% thick at top it follows a very steep curved down and a sorta step foil is created that goes down at about ~70 degrees and curves to a stop about mid line of the typical Clark Y foil . From there the foil has nearly flat foil shape on bottom of step to trailing edge.This wing foil shape is virtually all drag as the air comes of the top of the highest point of the foil and tumbles down the steep slope heading to trailing edge .The solution to this drag issue is about ~5% the jet engine force is directed through the middle of the wing where the leading edge has larger intake holes in it to allow ~5 % jet force air be directed too travel down the center of the wing and created tunnel of reduction channels using reduction layer fan shaped tunnels to reduce the flow to make blowers at the exit of the thickest part of wing at bottom of the step wing foil That's about 1/3 the distance from the leading edge.Then at the thickest part of the wing the ~5% jet force is quickly directed in strep new direction to be sent steeply upwards to follow the steep ~70 degrees angled step. EG jet air flows points also nearly a forwards direction relative to travel direction of flight of the foil wing shape. This ~5% jet force from wing slots collides with wing foil descending air from top of wing foil causing the air on top of wing to follow a curved path similar to what s normal Clark Y wing shaped foil would do without the need for the parasitic wing foil shape .This jet forced air is coming from bottom of stepped wing on flatter part going the to the trailing edge .The high lift ratio is higher than Clark Y types but does require directed air flow through center of wing and severe direction corrections redirected air flow is creating losses of power from turbine jet engines which can be in front of wing foil or buried inside such a thick air foil shape. EG foil is not suitable for high speed use but good for high lift slow STOL flight and is not dependent on flaps so much . The bottom of the foil can be reduced in length do that instead to be 1/3 for front of foil and 2/3 rds the length of foil to trailing edge as in Clark Y types to be closer to ~50/50 ratios there by saving on wing weights and giving ~25% plus wing foil thickness ratios and extra strength for wing carrying the extra weight for STOL use. If you sub to me and supply email I will draw you this foil from memory got from book of aerodynamics ~1974 era It's s book which I can no longer find online or on book shops in Ireland so I do not know name of wing foil

@Splarkszter Ай бұрын

AWESOME!

@thamesmud Ай бұрын

Can fulfillany short range missions.

@andik.4235 Ай бұрын

The wing of a Cesna 172 has a lift coefficient of 1.6 without flaps deployed. With its Fowler flaps deployed it is way over 2. Blown flaps had even a F 104 Starfighter, that is not a thing specific to electric aviation.

@The-KP 27 күн бұрын

See also: bush planes with turbo prop propulsion. Unfair comparison I know, just saying that's the other way to get short takeoff and landing: with an overpowered airplane. Not nearly as efficient as the developments we see in this video, which are very excellent and a strong advance in the state of the science.

@z_actual Ай бұрын

I still dont think we are there yet. For the aircraft you drag out of your garage that makes use of unregulated airspace, you wont have 60 m to take off, it has to be almost instant and on a very compact wing plan

@wordreet Ай бұрын

Yep, basically we need under-cambered wings for slow flight, like birds have whenever they want.

@DumbledoreMcCracken Ай бұрын

Well, there are a lot of misconceptions in the video. The most significant is that STOL is a requirement. Making an inefficient airplane, or a complicated airplane, is never a solution to the problem of short fields. A solution to short fields, is making a longer runway. In the long run, that is much cheaper on all fronts. The Princeton University's solution is horribly wrong.

@marcorocchi6758 Ай бұрын

We getting supermaneuverability with this one

@winnersquad9703 28 күн бұрын

Can you make again evtol design competition

@paulrun111 Ай бұрын

Make distributed electric propulsion but propwash only goes over top surface and you will have very very high lift. More than just regular D.E.P. that is the secret now someone hire me

@gormauslander Ай бұрын

Yeah, the entire lifting principle of aerofoils is that the faster air over the wing is lower pressure, so why not direct the propulsion over the wing to artificially increase it?

@paulrun111 Ай бұрын

@gormauslander if the prop wash only goes over top and not bottom it creates a larger difference in pressure in top vs bottom. If it goes over top and bottom the Increase is not as much

@Newtoon Ай бұрын

@@paulrun111 "it creates a larger difference in pressure in top vs bottom" . So... more lift ?

@paulrun111 Ай бұрын

@Newtoon yeah exactly.

@europaeuropa3673 Ай бұрын

Interesting, however, both drag and weight increase with increased lift.

@eduardodaquiljr9637 Ай бұрын

Why not use wider wing to increase wing area and eventually increase lift.

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

Bigger Footprint. Bigger storage space requirement

@MRxMADHATTER Ай бұрын

Take a look a Mike Patey's Scrappy aircraft.

@AM-gx3dy Ай бұрын

Put some ambiance on the background. Not to loud tho

@KuschallRacing Ай бұрын

well, for the interestet audience, who want a plane having 6 seats-space and lift after 6 seconds and can cruise with 65% 190 knts would be the solution we all are looking for...make an aircraft build proposal !!!!!

@nileshyalkar1764 Ай бұрын

very close but missing something

@FelixBrand-p2z Ай бұрын

Make a least drag coefficent video

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

That is a good idea

@ThisPartIsAndrew Ай бұрын

So you're saying the African triplane aviator inventors are actually the forefathers of a new era in aviation

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

Not the Triplane. Because the wings are not in the wake region of each other

@ThisPartIsAndrew Ай бұрын

@@ElectricAviation My joke went over the head. Jokes aside... It is a 100 year old concept. The Nieuport Triplanes were a series of experimental stagger-wing triplanes modified from Nieuport 10, 17 and 17bis biplanes during World War I

@ThisPartIsAndrew Ай бұрын

See also: Traditional Chinese dragon kite aerodynamics

@mikasjoman Ай бұрын

Great now test it with an rc plane, one improvement at the time 🙂

@christopherd.winnan8701 Ай бұрын

How many upcycled HDD motors would be required for a drone capable of carrying a person? Making RC Airplane Powered By Hard Drive HDD Motor. Does it fly? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYCraHqXitekhJY

@ElectricAviation Ай бұрын

I enjoyed your video. Thanks for sharing

@zoodfpv 8 күн бұрын

Good video, but please don't use AI for thumbnails. It looks low quality.

@ElectricAviation 7 күн бұрын

Ok. Thanks

@waynetokarz174 Ай бұрын

You start off with false hoods. Certifications are not lessened , the process will always remain the same. Testing on models has some advantages but air cannot be scaled and therefore the Reynolds’s numbers yield different resultants. They are other misrepresentations in your video.

@marting8798 Ай бұрын

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXqWY4F_q8-pn8U Thanks for great video. Here's a curious question:- Why is there no twin biplane - 4 lrg wings - all 100% distribtd propulsion, max slats/covert/fowler flaps, & leading/trailing whale bumps ie every lift trick in the book = tons of lift x8 x12 more Then put the front prop into reverse. It should go straight up no? Or just hang in the air? If pseudo anti-gravity already exists, why no one tried? Add tiny corner fans & Ai for stability control in hover. To go forward just reverse the main prop. A huge ship even. Why not? Very inefficient for level flight sure, but never stopped bush planes & USTOL comps. Will Ai take 'extreme high lift' to its natural conclusion??