VFR into IMC, loss of control and collision with terrain, EC130 T2 VH-XWD near Mount Disappointment

Following our investigation into the VFR into IMC, loss of control and collision with terrain involving Airbus Helicopters EC130 T2, registered VH-XWD, near Mount Disappointment, north of Melbourne on 31 March 2022, all visual flight rules pilots need to develop the knowledge and skills required to manage the risk of inadvertent flight into instrument meteorological conditions.
Read the final report: www.atsb.gov.a...
Helicopter Association International/US Helicopter Safety Team '56 seconds to live' online training: ushst.org/56se...

[@kiandrah8517]

Why wouldnt they be required to have instrument rating qualifications if taking on paying customers in that region though? A person getting on a paid flight assumes the pilot has all the required skills, not just the bare minimum licence.

[@chrisnoname2725]

Why do you assume all aircraft are rated for IFR?

[@VerticalFreedom]

@@kiandrah8517 not required for DayVFR

[@johnlacey155]

@@chrisnoname2725 this machine would at least have had an AH though? I'm not a pilot, and was allowed to fly a twin engine aircraft into cloud once. I didn't even know at first, because I was so focused on the instruments to maintain altitude/heading. It was no problem though, I think because I'd spent so much time flying the computer simulators. Wouldn't it make sense to require VFR pilots operating commercially to at least demonstrate the ability to hold an altitude and heading in IMC, even if they are not fully IFR rated? That way, even if caught out in IMC, there would be a possibility that ATC could talk them through?

[@chrisnoname2725]

@@johnlacey155 for planes you have to be able to but helicopters you don’t. I am pretty sure the helicopters i flew didn’t have an AH. The thing is it’s a helicopter. Sure there are areas where there won’t be anywhere to put down but most of the time you will have a paddock or somewhere you can land and wait, so it’s not as bad getting stuck near cloud as in a plane. I had to land in a paddock near kilmore gap and wait for the cloud to move once. Also most helicopter operations are going to require you to be in vmc anyway. Scenic flights, mustering, powerline inspections, sling loads, spraying need visibility. Most helicopter pilots will never need to be anywhere near going into cloud. It’s expensive so it’s unfair to make everyone do extra training that they’re never going to need. This pilot did something that the majority wouldn’t have done or even got close to doing

[@johnlacey155]

​@@chrisnoname2725 thanks very much for the explanation, that makes sense. All very sad at the end of the day.

[@bernie2108]

In my basic flying training I was introduced to imc. Wore a shroud to limit view to the instruments only, instructor monitoring. Now qualifies SEP land,[16 yrs], I avoid flying if a risk, and even if a sea fog rolls in gain height above use vor and radio for vectors, life is precious.

[@paulcoote3094]

Simple, require instrument imc rating for carrying passengers.

[@brodricj3023]

Not possible. There is not that training capacity in the system.

[@jimiemick]

Concidering the cost of IFR add on for helicopters Wouldn’t happen unfortunately. When I was doing my FAA conversion from CASA cpl they couldn’t believe we don’t do any IFR at all. Only certain company’s can teach it and it’s a nice pretty penny

[@brodricj3023]

@@jimiemick Not quite correct. In the CASA CPL-H flight test full panel and limited panel instrument flying competency including unusual attitude recovery is tested by the examiner. Refer to MOS Part 61 Appendix 1.2 para 3.4

[@philstanton231]

Some helicopter pilots think it the wild west out there. More professional attitudes need to be adopted and enforced.

[@chrisnoname2725]

Timid pilots aren’t safe either. Also you’re not going to fly helicopters if you want to just go around gently everywhere. You want a unicorn. I also haven’t seen any helicopter pilots outright being reckless either, even in ag work except in this case i would count it as reckless to either not have or not use an AH

[@Swaggerlot]

Presumably the pilot had a commercial licence and thus a reasonable number of hours logged?

[@N17C1]

Microflite staff once told me they take people with a minimum of 2,000hrs and preferably with 300h turbine time. Apparently anyone with less time is not competent to fly tourists in VFR. It seems their standards did not help in this case. Relying on 'hours = competence' is a major issue in aviation.

[@wallywally8282]

Commercial pressure, oh and stupidity!

[@MiguelAlejandro1969]

Porqué no usó el autopilot ? Ese helicóptero lo tiene,incluso NAV !

[@user-de2zo1bw4d]

Just make IFR compulsory for Commercial Flights

[@user-jq2rf4nf3o]

IFR is a transportation system air port to air port via air ways... IMC is weather conditions No flight services in the field

[@user-de2zo1bw4d]

@@user-jq2rf4nf3o “Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) are rules which allow properly equipped aircraft to be flown under instrument meteorological conditions (IMC).”

[@user-jq2rf4nf3o]

You'll fly where there is NO airway and kill all on board, IMC is weather IFR is a system. Air port to air port. Ever fly in IMC? You don't file for it. 45+ years no I rating - Lots of specials some IMC never used IFR - Helicopters are in a totally different world. ARMY tactical @@gargy2002

[@TonyTony-rd4rj]

IFR = Instrument Flying Rules.. They put those instruments in the machine to help the pilot fly the aircraft and should be used.

[@user-jq2rf4nf3o]

gizmos won't fix it if pilots don't have basic IMC training - IFR isn't the answer - Army tactical maybe

[@VerticalFreedom]

There’s no such thing as inadvertent IMC! That’s a Pilot way behind the aircraft making piss poor airmanship decisions 😠

[@chrisnoname2725]

Because cloud never moves and customers don’t care about getting to their destination?

[@brynwatson1439]

If you clearly have no knowledge of actual human decision making in uncertain situations and have nothing to offer beyond simplistic reductionism with the benefit of hindsight maybe you shouldn’t comment…

[@benhalicki9749]

I've been boxed in by weather before. Was clear as day at time of departure and nothing forecast.

[@VerticalFreedom]

@@benhalicki9749 hmmm that’s called piss poor airmanship from the gitgo! After 4 decades of flying, 10,000+ accident free hours, 10yrs in the Himalayas, 2yrs in PNG, 1,200 high altitude rescues I never let that happen….not once!

[@benhalicki9749]

​@VerticalFreedom sorry mate, didn't realise you were there.