Vickers Heavy Machine Gun

/ forgottenweapons
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I may be a bit biased here, but I believe that the Vickers gun is one of the best all-around firearms ever made. It was designed during an era of experimentation and craftsmanship, with a quality and care that would make it today prohibitively expensive. It was exemplary in action, and served in every environment on earth through six decades and in the hands of 50 different nations. It was an infantry gun, an aircraft gun, an armored vehicle gun, and a shipboard gun.
Captain Graham Hutchison recorded this account of the Vickers in action during an attack on High Wood in August 1916 (exerpted from “The Grand old Lady of No Man’s Land by Dolf Goldsmith):
"For this attack, [ten] guns were grouped in the Savoy Trench, from which a magnificent view was obtained of the German line at a range of about 2000 yards. These guns were disposed for barrage. On August 23rd and the night of the 23rd/24th the whole Company was, in addition to the two Companies of Infantry lent for the purpose, employed in carrying water and ammunition to this point. Many factors in barrage work which are now common knowledge had not then been learned or considered. It is amusing today to note that in the orders for the 100th Machine Gun Company’s barrage of 10 guns, Captain Hutchison ordered that rapid fire should be maintained continuously for twelve hours, to cover the attack and consolidation. It is to the credit of the gunners and the Vickers gun itself that this was done! During the attack on the 24th, 250 rounds short of one million were fired by ten guns; at least four petrol tins of water besides all the water bottles of the Company and urine tins form the neighborhood were emptied into the guns for cooling purposes; and a continuous party was employed carrying ammunition. Private Robertshaw and Artificer H. Bartlett between them maintained a belt-filling machine in action without stopping for a single moment, for twelve hours. At the end of this time many of the NCOs and gunners were found asleep from exhaustion at their posts. A prize of five francs to the members of each gun team was offered and was secured by the gun team of Sgt. P. Dean, DCM, with a record of just over 120,000 rounds."
The attack on the 24th of August was a brilliant success, the operation being difficult and all objectives being taken within a short time. Prisoner examined at Divisional and Corps Headquarters reported that the effect of the Machine Gun barrage was annihilating, and the counterattacks which had attempted to retake the ground lost were broken up wjilst being concentrated east of the Flers Ridge and of High Wood.
In 1963 in Yorkshire, a class of British Army armorers put one Vickers gun through probably the most strenuous test ever given to an individual gun. The base had a stockpile of approximately 5 million rounds of Mk VII ammunition which was no longer approved for military use. They took a newly rebuilt Vickers gun, and proceeded to fire the entire stock of ammo through it over the course of seven days. They worked in pairs, switching off at 30 minute intervals, with a third man shoveling away spent brass. The gun was fired in 250-round solid bursts, and the worn out barrels were changed every hour and a half. At the end of the five million rounds, the gun was taken back into the shop for inspection. It was found to be within service spec in every dimension.
During its service life, the Vickers was made in .303 British, .30-06, 0.50 Vickers, .50 High Velocity, 7×57 Mauser, 7.65×53, 8mm Mauser, 8mm Lebel, 7.7 Japanese, 6.5×54 Dutch, 7.9x57R Dutch, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R, 8x52R Siamese, 11mm Vickers, and three different 40mm cartridges.
The Vickers was retired from British military service in 1968, having finally become obsolete. Its GPMG role was taken over by the FN MAG, and its long range indirect fire role performed by 3″ mortars. The Vickers was a weapon which required training and dedication to master, but rewarded its users with phenomenal endurance and a wide range of capabilities. Among all contenders, only the Browning machine gun can attempt to compare to the outstanding qualities of the Vickers, and even the Browning fails to match the elegance of the stalwart Brit.

[@swanner95]

Britain: Builds a gun still fit for service after 5 million rounds fired Also Britain: Builds SA80

[@hainhatphung1371]

Also the Sten. Don't forget XD

[@johnharlow486]

Hey, its kinda ok. Just needed a helping hand from HK. At least when it runs out of ammunition (which is unlikely due to stoppages) it makes a hefty club.

[@scottwhitley3392]

The SA80 A2 is a very good rifle tbf

[@bamboozlednoodle6513]

Scott Whitley still heavier than it should be

[@scottwhitley3392]

Josh Van Aken I don’t find it that heavy tbh, and it’s a nice weapon to fire

[@terryneale8663]

My father fired one of these for a while during WW2, he alway said if you put enough lead through the barrel it made a nice cup of tea. Not sure if that's true, but he did go fishing in France with hand grenades so you never know.

[@rich999uk]

Old scholl

[@fishofgold6553]

Terry Neale "Not sure if that's true, but he did go fishing in France with hand grenades so you never know." This part made me laugh.XD

[@kirkmattoon2594]

Yes, In Robert Graves's memoir Good-bye to all That, he says that when he was in the trenches in WW1 sometimes the runners would be late bringing up the morning tea, so they would run through a belt or two to heat up the water in the jacket, and brew up with it. The tea had an oily flavour, but the Tommies weren't choosy.

[@73North265]

I have read memoirs of RN destroyer captains who went fishing with depth charges - one way to get rations for the crew

[@brianj.841]

I read marines and PT-boat crews in the Solomon's, and else-where, also fished with grenades.

[@wescoleman6390]

19:33 "You don't see guns with this kind of infrastructure on them anymore." This reminds me of my favorite description of the Vickers from Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. "But the Vickers in the back of this truck was to other guns as the bandsaw was to other saws. The Vickers was water-cooled. It actually had a f***ing radiator on it. It had infrastructure, just like the bandsaw, and a whole crew of technicians to fuss over it. But once the damn thing was up and running, it could fire continuously for days as long as people kept scurrying up to it with more belts of ammunition."

[@nightofthunder5509]

miniguns prob modern equiv

[@evanbarnes2484]

Great quote! I was thinking of this when I started watching the video. I'm pretty sure the used it to take out a plane in the book

[@pikekeke]

I was thinking the same thing. Where the assistants do some quick math to make sure they've saturated the ditch they're shooting at.

[@chrisball3778]

He must have read the book. I'd been thinking of that description throughout the video, and then he mentioned 'infrastructure' right near the end. That was a really fun little Easter egg for Neal Stephenson fans. Glad other viewers noticed it.

[@alexeytsybyshev9459]

6:30 the crank handle repeatedly hitting the knucle in slow motion looks hilarious to me.

[@Ryan-qf5rg]

At least someone saw it. Drove me nuts lol.

[@tanveerhasan2382]

looks painful

[@guest6398]

Instead of M1 Thumb, they had Vickers Fingers.

[@andyjones6643]

Ditto

[@brentfarvors192]

I image not so "funny" for the poor saps on the front lines shooting it...?

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

5,000,000 rounds fired on a single Vickers gun and still within spec, really amazing

[@quistan2]

He said it was an anecdote, so I wonder if there is any documentation on that that test, or if its just legend.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Oh, I missed the anecdote part, was watching and working at the same time. A million round test seems reasonable though.

[@laxityazathoth1423]

Vegas Cycling Freak I think he might be getting mixed up with the machine gun bombardment at aubers ridge ( iirc ) where a couple of million rounds where fired by 8 vickers guns. I try to find a link. The weapon had a reputation for great solidity and reliability. Ian V. Hogg, in Weapons & War Machines, describes an action that took place in August 1916, during which the British 100th Company of the Machine Gun Corps fired their ten Vickers guns continuously for twelve hours. Using 100 barrels, they fired a million rounds without a failure. "It was this absolute foolproof reliability which endeared the Vickers to every British soldier who ever fired one."[2]

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Very interesting Laxity

[@laxityazathoth1423]

Just did the sums. 5million rounds at 500 a min =10000 mins which is 6.9 days. Factor in barrel changes every 30 mins and that figure goes up quite substantially never mind the time taken to reload the weapon. Also having been in the British army you might get to jolly a few hundred rounds but the QM that signed off on using up 5 million rounds would have been dragged off to the local hospital and checked for a traumatic brain injury.

[@lptomtom]

That reliability is fascinating...crews were supposed to change barrels every 10.000 rounds, which meant hourly changes during WW1. That 5-million rounds test must've been something to behold, I wish there were pictures of the insides afterwards. Can you imagine how dirty and worn it was? EDIT: here was the result of the test "At the end the gunpit was surrounded by mountains of boxes, belts, cases, debris; a large cleft had appeared in the stop butts where the bullets had destroyed the butts. We took the gun off its tripod and back to the workshop. We inspected and gauged. No measurable difference anywhere. It had eaten barrels, they were changed every hour to 1½ hours, but mechanically [the gun] was unchanged. It had consumed just under five million rounds of .303", non-stop (my notes were for Mk VII, not Mk VIIIz, so I presume zones etc were for Mk VII)."

[@mrb692]

Good thing for the Germans then that there was only ever one Vickers gun at any given machine gun nest and that none of the others along the line had overlapping fields of fire.

[@chiphailstone589]

Dirty, not worn, as note, it was still within working specifications. Maxims guns fired at each other all across the fronts, as te Russians used them too. Truely "The Devils Paintbrush"

[@ghdfhsfnfgbadfhsfh]

@ because the brits only ever had one gun.

[@geraldmahle9833]

@@mrb692 I'm sorry, but where in the world do posters get ideas like this? I don't believe any of mrb's statement. Tripe. Bullcrappy.

[@mrb692]

@@geraldmahle9833 Rereading it now, I’m thinking it was a joke, like how the Germans popped up every time they heard a Garand *ping* over the din of combat because it an American was reloading. How do you rush a gun that can fire 5 million rounds without a hiccup? Do it when they’re changing barrels, obvs

[@anzaca1]

11:48 British Armourers: *put 5 million rounds through a Vickers gun* Vickers Gun: "That all you got?"

[@SabreXio]

*spits out brass* Hey! I didn't hear no bell.

[@TallboyDave]

"I can do this all day."

[@reichtangle7734]

@@TallboyDave Well it fired for a week straight!

[@abriannaaguilera2123]

Vickers MG: I didn't hear no bell!

[@sorrenblitz805]

"Who else wants a little? Huh?"

[@42degreesouth]

Very enjoyable video. Brought back many memories. In 1958, I was 16 years old and a qualified sergeant Vickers instructor in my high school military cadet unit in Sydney, Australia. We would get to fire the Vickers at the annual camp. Still remember the order, "Two taps, left and right, fire when ready!". Our ammunition belts at the time were canvas rather than the chain linked style used here. I also remember in preparing the weapon for the range having to make the barrel seals watertight by packing it with asbestos fibre. Health and safety was not an issue barely a dozen years after the end of WWII.

[@archygrey9093]

I heard that canvas belts had a habit of gripping bullets too tight when they got wet and shrunk. Its interesting that they still used them after ww11

[@matty6848]

Rob that’s amazing can’t believe you got to experience firing a Vickers machine gun. A true relic from the past.

[@Wotsitorlabart]

@@matty6848 A true relic from the past! I'm sure Rob isn't quite that old.

[@MarvinT0606]

did you ever make tea with the barrel water like those Great War veterans supposedly did?

[@billolgaau]

@Rob Walls I was the same age as you in 1958 as a Sgt Vickers Instructor from Coffs Harbour & fired at Holsworthy Range. The Army gave a demo & the Vickers jamed "Crank on roller twice" to clear (Well not quite) - They put the Vickers in the back of our truck with us & one of the kids lifted the safety & pulled the trigger & a bullet went through the back of the truck, through the steering, windscreen & out over a 6 pounder Anti Tank gun crew! (The truck driver was the VERY white guy standing next to the truck after that)

[@shkotayd9749]

Five. Million. Rounds. And the fucking thing was still essentially good to go aside from barrel swaps?

[@sillygoose210_6]

Shkotay D built to last I guess

[@pathowgate2544]

British engineering 👍

[@cracklingvoice]

It's not only the five million rounds, it's that all those rounds were fired through it in only seven days. I don't know of any modern infantry weapon that could handle that kind of load and still be functional afterward, much less fully in-spec.

[@pic7062]

I have a feeling the electric motor turning the barrels of minigun won't last running through 5 million rounds.

[@Fennecbutt]

No. Modern technology is much superior. The motor would outlive almost all other parts of the minigun. Don't be an idiot.

[@Muskatnuss1701]

That is the weirdest episode of Half in the Bag I've ever watched.

[@dyveira]

Yeah, when I heard the music I had to look over at the video and figure out if I'd accidentally switched videos or something.

[@LawrenceofCanadia]

YEP.

[@Skiddings]

That's right Jay

[@LessDevoid]

Is Ian replacing Mike?

[@anr1593]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed

[@postscript67]

When I was in London recently I saw the Machine Gun Corps Memorial at Hyde Park Corner. It has a statue of David and a couple of Vickers guns in bronze. On the plinth there is a rather grim biblical quotation: "Saul hath slain his thousands but David his tens of thousands."

[@james9311]

Interesting

[@murphy7801]

TBF alot war memorials in the UK from ww1&2 don't paint war as a good thing. Which I think is appropriate.

[@brentfarvors192]

@@murphy7801 Seeing as how the WW1 death toll has still not been surpassed by any accumulative wars, since...Pretty accurate a description!

[@gray4953]

My great grandfather was a British machine gunner at the Somme (he survived) ... in one night his unit war dairy says they fired 140,000+ rounds

[@renegadedonutshorse]

Can't even imagine

[@mweston25]

gray one of my great great grandfathers was a british Machine gun operator and was killed on the first day of the Somme another one of my great great grandfathers was also killed on the first day of Somme but was a German Officer.

[@keithsimpson2685]

@@mweston25 Drives home how insanely pointless that war was. Soldiers should have killed their officers not each other.

[@numbers4851]

@@keithsimpson2685 even then a lot of junior officers like lieutenants and captains weren’t real involved with the politics.

[@murphy7801]

How was his hearing?

[@Simplehistory]

Soldiers would urinate into the cans in WWI if out of water to stop overheating

[@NetGhoul666]

It's not stupid if it works.

[@napalm390]

Kuddlesworth NA16 minutes ago And you can make some tea or coffee with the hot water.

[@steveholmes11]

Bear Grylls got his training in the Machinegun Corps.

[@Kingstone1981]

Would the salt from the urine not become a problem once there's too much of it? For example it would clog something.

[@RevRaptor898]

That reminds me of an old story floating around the army. So it WW2 the African campaign, a bunch of Brits and a bunch of Aussies both are ordered to march to some shit hole town to capture it. It's going to take em a few days to get there and every evening when they stopped the Aussies would dig a large shallow hole and seal it with a tarp then they pissed in it and then they all stood in it for a while. This happened every night. Needless to say the Brits found this pretty weird and eventually one got curious enough to walk up and ask what they were doing. One Aussie turned to him and answered "We're standing in a puddle of piss mate" and that was all he said. When they got to their destination the Brits soon figured out why as their feet were pretty messed up but the Aussie's feet were totally fine.

[@kenwatkins7097]

Great presentation.My grandfather,William Watkins was awarded the Croix de Guerre by the Belgium King in 1918.He was using a Vickers MG while serving with the New Zealand Machine Gun Corps 1915-1918.

[@charliespurr7325]

So THAT'S how they load those belts with ammo! I always thought it must take far too long to manually load those belts one round at a time during wartime for only 30 seconds of fire.

[@johnsalt1157]

In fact the Vickers belt-loader, as issued, was a huge brass device that looked very much like a meat grinder. Very few now exist; I have seen one fo the few still around at Richard Fisher's Vickers MG collection, website here: vickersmg.blog/

[@Lappmogel]

I don't know for a fact but i bet a lot of guys spent their ''time off'' in the trenches and dugouts manually reloading belts.

[@johannesmichaelalhaugthoma4215]

Given the preponderance of human wave attacks in Korea and Vietnam as well as the heavily infantry-centric wars in Africa over the last 60 years, I seriously question the official obsolesence of the Vickers. If I were defending a Firebase in Vietnam, and I had a choice between an M60 and a Vickers, I know what I would pick.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Agreed, hell you don't have to tie it down! Mount it on a vehicle (like a Humvee) with the condensing can and everything, it can happily chug along while that vehicle can go where that firepower is needed the most!

[@theduchyofmilanball3157]

I suppose one other angle you can take is that a vickers isnt necessarily compatible with mass production. As Ian said, these are expensive pieces of equipment, and compared to other machine guns, even contemporary ones, theres a notable increase in expense.

[@KirbyZhang]

if you kept flashing at the attacking infantry in korea or vietnam, you would be dead in five seconds.

[@floydvaughn836]

@@theduchyofmilanball3157 Vickers: 2000 lb Sterling. Victory: priceless.

[@tomsoki5738]

@@theduchyofmilanball3157 Doesn’t matter when you have tens of thousands in stores and they don’t really ware out

[@kamilleirvin910]

I see you trained it to pee outside. Mine always goes on the carpet.

[@zloychechen5150]

remove the carpet

[@Stealthgato]

The carpet really ties the room together, man.

[@WolfgangBrozart]

He peed on your fucking rug.

[@kellychuang8373]

Kameron Irvin Can't even picture peering in that also causes problems later on as I heard and stunk up the barrel. Also heard that this type of machine gun was used to make tea and coffee.

[@Crlarl]

Fuck it, dude. Let's go -bowling- shooting.

[@tassiehandyman3090]

16:54 "the assistant gunners job is to take over when the gunner gets killed..." You know, the British Army had always been the same - they don't bugger about, they call a spade a bloody shovel. "Spare" was clearly not deemed as agreeable as "Assistant", but the intent remained the same...

[@pgprentice]

Brings back memories. Fired one of these in the 1970's walking in shots on 45 gallon barrels at 1500 yards. Great to shoot and a pig to transport. The Union of South Africa retained a large inventory of surplus Vickers machine guns after World War II. Many of these were donated to the National Liberation Front of Angola (FNLA) and National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA) during the Angolan Civil War.[26] Angolan militants were usually trained in their use by South African advisers.[26] Small quantities re-chambered for 7.62mm NATO ammunition remained in active service with the South African Defence Force until the mid 1980s, when they were all relegated to reserve storage.[26] Six were withdrawn from storage and reused by a South African liaison team operating with UNITA during the Battle of Cuito Cuanavale, after which the weapons were finally retired.[30]

[@rupertmcnaughtdavis3649]

My father got paid an extra thripence a day for being a Vickers instructor in WW2.

[@smasher.338]

Must have been a jolly good time.

[@xGOOFYJELLYFISH]

0:36 "hello and welcome to another episode of half in the bag"

[@vertigo4236]

Is Ian replacing Mike?

[@okloshbrokla8154]

@@vertigo4236 OH GOD OH GOD GET THEM ON THE SHOW

[@Oldfart2225]

In the early sixties this was the first gun I ever fired: A full belt of 303 (only Americans call it '303 British') at a target (a small pond) about 2000 yds away and downhill at the Singleton (Australian ) Army Camp. Almost all the shots hit the target area, evidenced by the water being kicked up. Ears rang for about three days. I was about 13 and my dad was an instructor (previously an infantry company commander in New Guinea in WW2). He had a high regard for them and their ability to sustain fire. There was lot of interest in them (and NBC warfare) when he taught at the School of Infantry during and just after the Korean War, mainly for countering Chinese mass attack tactics.

[@TJ-wg3ud]

Its pretty amazing that these guns were so incredibly well built that 100 years later they can still run a whole 250 round belt without any issues. I have an m1 carbine that is half that guns age and im happy when i only get one malfunction in a 30 round mag.

[@winchuni22]

My great uncle liked the Vickers. The Bren was his favourite and he said it was so accurate that with a single shot it could be used for sharp shooting it was that accurate.

[@max1manus]

5:11 No!

[@max1manus]

5:27 I regret nothing.

[@jakthesmack]

hell yeah make it rain!

[@letsgoiowa]

I hear nothing now.

[@dgk2256]

ClazzyDonkey ke4im>*

[@dgk2256]

ClazzyDonkey h4 jru

[@freddyhayes239]

21:40 That Vickers gun is marking It's territory!.

[@HaloFTW55]

It’s probably somebody’s fetish. The MG publicly peeing while being filmed.

[@nigelwigglwattle]

@@s.walker5574 its the American potato digger that did that

[@Dezzasheep]

Good enough to brew your tea with.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Yeah it, well, dumps on anybody in range...you'll move, unless you like being full of lead!

[@macronaria]

This is such a well done channel. Props to you, Ian, and anyone else that helps you out on a regular basis

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Thanks!

[@markhammond4265]

My Dad was in the MG Coy, 60th Rifles pre war. During training they went into a bunker to experience the effects of 2 Vickers in elevated distant fire on tiles, 'the beaten zone", apparently it was an awesome experience. They modified a Vickers, for a service competition, polished the lock, adjusted everything up, got 1,000 rpm out of it (and a rocket when the OC heard it firing). I srill have his sets of armourers drawings for these guns, in their blue issue box.

[@Jpdt19]

Amazing

[@DrBreezeAir]

Love the shirt Ian. The music made me feel like Mr Plinkett is going to show up at any moment.

[@somedude3766]

DrBreezeAir but it is Burt not Bert I think...

[@DrBreezeAir]

Most likely.

[@williamrance5086]

One very informative video. Very nice, as a Brit, to be educated on a little British military history by a knowledgable gentleman from across the pond. Thank you very much. Kindest regards, Bill.

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Finnish loader, Czech ammo and a Russian belt? :D From the side it sounds like a diesel-engine, just happily chugging along :D

[@alastairgrant77]

We used the Vickers in action up counrtry in the Aden Protectorate or South Yemen in 1964/5. We used mark 8z ammunition which extended the range which was further then the 3 inch mortar. The 81 mm Mortar had a range of 4600 metres and so replaced the Vickers for long range work, but at the same time the GPMG was introduced which being belt fed was more effective than the Bren and so became our medium machine gun. It still in use today.

[@hotty3]

"Turn your volume down now.." I think you meant to turn your volume up, Ian :)

[@MrTehPenguin]

Well Im now the new treasurer of my school's firearms club so I think I will try to get $22,000 so we can have a club Vickers

[@epauletshark3793]

Which school is that? I have never heard of a firearms club in a school.

[@MrTehPenguin]

@@epauletshark3793 Embry-Riddle in Florida

[@kingdomibo7863]

@@MrTehPenguin i’m coming to florida

[@Gman-109]

IT's actually very cool that you had missed a link in that belt, to demonstrate how that malfunction is cleared - Ian did that so fast you'd miss if you blinked, very pro. Great video on a great piece of our military history.

[@Operator588]

"These are pretty much obsolete noone uses water cooled guns anymore" Meanwhile maxims and vikers being used by both sides in ukraine currently.

[@EnterpriseXI]

Give the guy a break this video was posted 5 years ago there was no war in Ukraine at that time

[@Operator588]

@@EnterpriseXI Wasn't pointing it out to disparage ian, but to highlight the absurdity.

[@EmperorJavik]

@@EnterpriseXI The war in Donbas, which saw Maxims being used by both sides, started in 2014 and the Ukrainian Armed Forces officially adopted the Maxim in 2016.

[@amperzand9162]

I'd actually really like to see some shooting at the 2,900 setting, if you could find enough open space to make it safe. Be very cool to watch the beaten zone from that through a gopro or something.

[@randolfiserman5201]

In Ukraine during the civil war they brought out Maxims from storage to use in fixed machine gun positions. As of course any machine gun is better than none.

[@prof_kaos9341]

I have seen videos of old WW2 trenches being dug up in Ukraine/Russia to yield boxes of Maxims, MG42s, MP40s etc still in their grease paper. Maxims come in a box of 4 and MG 42s 10 in a box. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXrNanmudrV0l7s

[@badpossum440]

@@prof_kaos9341 there are trees in Russia with maxims/vickers imbedded in them.

[@prof_kaos9341]

@@badpossum440 i have also seen this footage. I thought the trees that had grown up thru helmets lifting them up were the freakiest. The weapons i talked of were still useable. I have also seen a ww2 era soviet spg with either the 120mm or 152mm in a kids play ground fixed up and driven off. And i have heard of t-34 gate guards being repaired to use in the current Ukraine conflict Watch "FOUND A FORGOTTEN CACHE OF WEAPONS OF WWII / WWII METAL DETECTING" on KZbin kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXrNanmudrV0l7s

[@utubeballbag]

Can't imagine how crazy that would feel being the guy sent to get your grandads world war 1 machine gun from the basement to fight some cunts with tanks.

[@terranempire2]

Still using them now.

[@prof_kaos9341]

Using special extended range .303 ammo in 1942 gave the Vickers a range of almost 2 miles. At that kind of range the gun shot an oval spread of about 3-5 yards. At 2nd Alamein after the 2nd NZ Div took Kidney Ridge a Brigade of British Tanks who initially refused to advance reluctantly did so when given the covering fire of a reinforced NZ MG Platoon of 6 Vickers which used the "tap" method shot 15,000 rounds in this area denial fashion similar to a mortar barrage. Strange they would not advance without this support, 130 tanks with 2 MGs each and a cannon needed the support of 6 Vickers.... Source "Freybergs Circus" by Noel Gardiner (commander of the MG platoon).

[@slammerf16]

The tankies can get very precious about getting too close to dug in troops without them being supressed.

[@matauboy]

Firing the whole belt is where the expression. ..." Give it the whole 9 yards," comes from.

[@constableodo9738]

This isn't actually true.

[@myramadd6651]

The music makes this video. Reminds me of the old Mr. Rogers neighborhood eps. "Today boys and girls, Picture Picture will be showing us loading the ammunition belt for the Vickers heavy Machine Gun. Won't that be fun?"

[@quistan2]

Ian IS the Mr Rodgers of mechanical lead chuckers.

[@myramadd6651]

Its a beautiful day at the firing range, a beautiful day at the firing range!

[@fordhemi789]

Won’t, you be, my loader!

[@leshenderson571]

Thank you very much. I used the Vickers in the NZ Army. It is certainly an amazing machine gun.

[@maximilianvonspee9329]

Am I alone in the feeling that loading magazines or belts and cleaning guns is therapeutic? It's such a steady mechanical process that relaxes my mind

[@DevilbyMoonlight]

us brits didnt swap the MG for the mortar, 36 years ago as a young Rfn I can remember being trained on the L7 GPMG (known as the 'jimpy') in the 'Sustained Fire' role which we were told replaced the vickers , in that role it did use the same sighting system as the 3inch mortar though - the C2 sight and I was trained on both

[@Punisher9419]

And you can make some tea or coffee with the hot water.

[@OlaJustin]

Kuddlesworth NA well, that was of course what the water was for! Cooling was fine, the brits just go to lengths and bounds for their pudding and tea! ;)

[@Punisher9419]

Moral is important in combat. If something like this can be used to make the crew that operate it a little happier then they will probably perform better. Same in tanks people make it out to be a joke but any hot drink will make that person feel nicer so they can perform their task for longer periods of time. Or at least that's the theory.

[@fjubben]

They could even route the steam right into the teapot!

[@skepticalbadger]

If you had ever touched or smelled the water from the jacket, you wouldn't suggest this. It's full of oil, gunshot residue, & even traces of asbestos.

[@Punisher9419]

That's all nutritional.

[@s.sradon9782]

In company of heroes you get this absolute Chad that just picks the whole damn thing up and runs around with it on his shoulder.

[@terrycostakis6284]

One of your best videos that I’ve seen. If I owned that gun it would be sitting in the middle of my living room. It’s elegant.

[@sb-ant6457]

My Grandfather drove one of those in WW1 in France, no job for a New Zealand painter.

[@FamousEccles]

Likewise, but mine was from the Island of Anglesey.

[@GeoffSayre]

I gotta say Ian, this was an excellent video and I think my favorite so far. This style of editing and presentation worked really well and I had a blast watching this old work horse pouring lead down range.

[@khazh17]

OMG, I don't know why there are 2 dislikes. This is super kool and I have to say, your voice is so good, your knowledge about weapon is very wise. I'm bad at English but after 2 years follow you on Forgotten Weapons Channel, I can speak and write well. I like history, and though this, I learn a lot about what they have done in the past. Each time, each country, they has shown their cultural on their weapon. I love what you did. I hope I can watch more interesting video from you and your team. Thanks for enlighten me :D

[@clarencewatson8366]

I've shot a Vickers at a range and it felt so stable and effortless, like it could keep going for days.

[@greggwonder2199]

Nice video. Very educational, time well spent. Can't imagine the horror a soldier experienced facing those weapons 100yrs ago.

[@sammni]

Is it true these things can be used like a mortar at extreme range? Dropping bullets behind obstacles over long range

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Yes.

[@babakzekibi315]

wow

[@mkevhne]

sammni yeah I heard that these and some of its clones are the most accurate machine guns ever built not even modern machine guns can match their accuracy

[@doorguner01]

sammni what goe's up must come down!

[@Ant1815]

+ZERO94AIC Accuracy isn't necessarily always a good trait with machine guns. It's very often preferable to have a certain amount of 'bullet spread' in order to better facilitate area suppression.

[@monochromaticlightsource9153]

You gave them the whole Nine Yards!

[@richardbruce8111]

GREAT Information Ian ,as usual! A handy way to understand the change from Maxim to Vickers is to understand that Vickers simplified the "lock" as the firing assembly is termed they reduced the 3 stage operation of the original MAXIM to 2 stages 1 stage draw cartridge from belt, 2 stage move it down to breach fire then on extraction the case simply drops out bottom of gun ... no problem (unless you have British pattern baggy tropical shorts!& hot case becomes friendly! The Maxim lock moves the case down 3 stage & posts it out a hole under the water jacket so you always see a stream of fired cases flying out under the water jacket . The change allowed a slim casing same depth as the water jacket. the original Maxim design has a much deeper casing (bigger) The Germans actually produced the 08/15 as a "lighter" gun fitting a pistol grip trigger & SHOULDER STOCK! & an gynormous attached spool magazine! My Daddy got wounded by a Turk Maxim on Gallipoli running towards the gun he got a bullet thru his thigh& calf ,4holes & missed the bone The NZs took the gun turned it on the Turks till it jammed then it was taken to NZ as a trophy currently in national NZ museum on loan from the descendants who inherited the gun their great uncle captured ! usually a fabric belt was guided by gunners mate he also 'fed' the belt, see how the steel belt flails round in your excellent slow motion clip!

[@petere7197]

PS. A long-dead relative of mine told my father that he, and his unit, had spent 3(?) 4(?) days retiring from the Japanese assault, and it was only when they passed by a Vickers gun crew that they knew they were at last safe. See 20:05 onwards in this film for how good it actually was. Nice Brodie, by the way!

[@Reckec]

Ouch... Ian, the slow-mo of you shooting shows the toggle hitting your finger. It looked painful.

[@spyderxtra777]

known by troops in the field as the "knuckle whacker"

[@OlaJustin]

spyderxtra777 you would think that they could have extended the grip by a tiny margin but I guess they wanted the soldiers to be alirt and not fall a sleep during the boring WWI battles. :)

[@SgtKOnyx]

Ola Justin because the deafening noise of the gun wasn't enough

[@Broken-Flesh]

SgtKOnyx And ungodly artillery barrages.

[@stc3145]

«Nobody uses water cooled machine guns anymore» But today they do

[@richardphillips1041]

I love your videos, your delivery is informal, fun and packed with detailed information. You really know your stuff and your enthusiasm about your subject is great to watch.

[@jakthesmack]

Truly awesome pieces of firearm history. Fantastic video as usual Ian!

[@TheAirBudd]

Ian, I remember either you or Karl said that the euphemism 'the whole nine yards' might have come from the maxim/vickers. If that's true, it's officially the most badass euphemism ever.

[@patriciabelchiere9688]

My dad was in the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers , a Machine Gun Regiment. Where did he mainly serve in the Western desert I asked. Basically the wonderful men helped anywhere and everywhere that there was real trouble. Dad got the MC.

[@patriciabelchiere9688]

The men put their lives in the hands of the Vickers and it never let them down.

[@dinsdalemontypiranha4349]

I've been watching your videos for years Ian, but I still run across older ones that I haven't seen yet. This is my favorite video so far! I love the gun and I love the history that goes along with it. I'm not the engineer that my father was and my best friend is, but one of my degrees is in history, focusing on the history of Germany right after the end of WWI, and to a much lesser extent the other empires that collapsed around this time, so I'm interested in the war too. Thanks!

[@nickakers5454]

5.....million....rounds non stop & all they done was changed the barrel....that is bad ass

[@tonysstudio7037]

yo that's how a machine gun should sound like

[@juggy666]

What an awesome piece of work, thank you so much. The historical context was brilliant and most appreciated you really helped understand the evolving use of this iconic weapon. Fantastic!

[@MichaelSabo]

Great channel; I love hearing the history and facts!

[@Ashfielder]

I'd love to own a Vickers gun at one point… but I live in England.

[@quistan2]

Its hard to get your freedom to bear arms back, after you've surrendered your arms.

[@Ashfielder]

We're allowed shotguns and bolt action rifles, as well as semi automatics but they're under several restrictions.

[@Ashfielder]

I'm pro gun personally and am beginning to gather vintage rifles and shotguns, but to be fair, everything else was banned for a pretty good reason. One too many shootings for our government's liking, plus the IRA was able to get armed quite easily, which is never good. You don't want a major terorrist group being easily armed when they're a stone's throw away.

[@quistan2]

Terrorists dont need guns to do acts of terror. But if they do need a gun, they dont care about the laws that govern them. Anyhow, obviously I was not blaming you (one person) for an entire country for deciding to cut up and destroy millions of beautiful antique weapons, and ban millions of others.

[@Ashfielder]

It is a damn shame that so many historical firearms were destroyed, and cartridges like .455 Webley and .303 British basically died off, but we haven't really had any major shootings since the bans, so we know it works. Similar to what happened in Australia. At least the historical rifles survived, such as old bolt actions and semi automatics.

[@wattlebough]

Let’s not forget that when referring to the British Army anything they did the Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders also did. Add to the British Army another 800,000 troops from Canada, Australia and New Zealand who also had the Vickers, Lewis Gun and trained the mad minute with the SMLE .303 and is it any wonder the German forces couldn’t win the war.

[@tenofprime]

A large part of why Germany lost WW1 and WW2 is that it has limited domestic resources compared to the other powers. They simply do not have the raw material, manufacturing and manpower to outlast the combined forces they were up against in both cases.

[@coolkidsclub9943]

I think it's easy to forget that Imperial Germany of WW1 also had the Austro Hungarians backing them (who weren't as useless as the Italians in WW2), and had already knocked out the Eastern Front by the end of the war. I hate to give a lot of credit to America, especially since they had waited so long to join, but their addition to the Allies really did help them numerically with at least a million more than these present British, French, and other Allied troops, as well as plenty more on the way. It's also important to remember that the British army had the tough job of dealing with the Ottomans, splitting their own forces for a lot of the war away from the Western front. Most of the Allied victory can be attributed to their use of collective strategy with things such as the Tank (which the British did use effectively and the Germans were behind on), their impressive navy that was actually matched by Germany for most of WW1, the French diligence to fight in such battles like Verdun, and the Russian Empire's good early planning that almost was massively sucessful such as the Brusilov Offensive. The American intervention is unironically a very determining point in the war. WW2 is a different story entirely and Germany could not have won at all in their situation, but WW1 Germany and the Central Powers did have some very solid moments.

[@tenofprime]

@@coolkidsclub9943 it is also important to make a distinction between the US's help before and after they entered the conflict directly. The government remained neutral for quite a while but privete industry was cranking out supplies for the allies from the start. It is part of why the US tends to not be seen as neutral in the larger scale and I would agree with that view. When your nation is selling weapons to only 1 side of the conflict is it truly a neutral power?

[@paulallen8109]

@@coolkidsclub9943 From 1916 onward Germany had no chance to win the war and already knew it could no longer win it by going on any large scale offensives. So they tried to slug it out and win by "superior tenacity". Small problem however, the German economy couldn't sustain the war and the situation for the German home front became increasingly worse. You see unlike the British and French who had products they could barter with and both kept their Pound Sterling and French Franc level throughout the war Germany had to abandon the Goldmark and adapt the Papiermark floating currency and financed they war by lending money to itself. As the war progressed longer than expected they had to print ever more money. By 1918 the Papiermark was worth roughly 40% of its 1913 value. Since the Royal Navy managed to maintain the naval blockade of Germany from 1916 (following the Battle of Jutland) Germany was slowly being starved into submission. Germany was well aware that it would inevitably lose and hence resumed unrestricted submarine warfare. The situation was desperate so they gambled high, and lost. " It's also important to remember that the British army had the tough job of dealing with the Ottomans," The Russians fought with the Ottomans throughout the war and did conquer land in Anatolia and the Caucasus mountains. The Arab revolt helped the British take over control over the Arabian peninsula of the Ottoman Empire. Both the French and Italians were fighting the Ottomans too. "The American intervention is unironically a very determining point in the war." No it sped up the inevitable and probably saved Germany from going the same way as Imperial Russia - having the revolution spread like wildfire in the country and lead to a civil war they could ill afford. As a matter of fact the German high command hastily agreed to the armistice since the German revolution had already started over a week before the armistice and they feared Germany might be lost while they were busy fighting the war. Even Hitler was well aware that failing home moral was one of the contributing factors to the German public becoming rapidly disillusioned with the war. The Americans played a rather small role in stopping the Spring Offensive of 1918 and the honor of stopping it goes to the Commonwealth troops of Australia and Canada who stood their ground. You also mention the number of German soldiers appearing on the western front. Well, the Spring Offensive ultimately failed because the achilles heal of the German army was the bad logistics. Fuel was scarce by 1918 and there simply was no way to transport German troops fast enough to different sectors of the front to exploit their numbers. Obviously it was very difficult to move heavy guns through territory which had been bombarded to a desolate wasteland. And the German logistical problems simply stretched back to the mentioned Naval blockade and German's lack of resources and their inability to ship in more, as well as the German economy buckling under the war. Another factor to consider is that both the French and British outproduced Germany by this point of the war in artillery pieces, machine guns, shells and aircraft. Four times more aircraft engines were being produced than they did in Germany. And since rotary engines were fairly popular (in the famour Fokker triplane for instance) and they needed castor oil they were forced to siphon castor oil from downed French and British aircraft. German civilians were also urged to hand over their precious metals to support the war and in some places in Germany even steel pipes were dug up from the ground to "remedy" the shortage. By the time the 1918 Spring Offensive bogged down to a halt Germany's last chance of winning the war was over. From 1918 onwards Germany is lost, with or without the allied 100 Days Offensive. Even if they're not defeated in battle their own home front will disintegrate and they will have their hands full dealing with revolutionaries at home. In fact it took a full 9 month WITH the armistice already in effect before the German revolution finally was struck down in 1919. Yes, the nazi idea about being "stabbed in the back" had some basis in reality, the illusion being that Germany could have won had the revolutionaries not been around. And yes, Hitler maintained production of civilians products in the first few years of WWII to prevent a repeat of this very scenario. To him it was important for the German people to feel like they weren't in a war. The Brusilov Offensive came close to knocking Austria-Hungary out of the war but even if it didn't it still ended Austria-Hungary as an effective force among the Central Powers. On top of that the 14 different nationalities fighting in the A-H army didn't speak each other's language and had very little desire to fight for an emperor who all treated them like disposable cannon-fodder and second rate citizens. Bulgaria wasn't going to last once they found themselves at war with Romania in the north and Greece to the south. Once the French landed in Greece and the Salonika front worked itself upwards and the Serbs were hellbent on taking their own land back the dice was already cast. The last chance Germany and the Central Powers had to win the war was in 1916. Had Germany won in Verdun (difficult considering the British offensive at Somme and the Brusilov Offensive making Austria-Hungary scream for German assistance or all would be lost) and defeated the Royal Navy at Jutland the war may have gone their way. Last of all. While German troops did transfer from the Eastern Front following the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in February 1918, a million German soldiers *remained* stationed on the Eastern Front to secure the conquered land and "pacify" the locals (historically a very bad idea). After the war Ludendorff actually said:"We shouldn't have bothered with Russia at all and simply retained the old pre-war borders and just demanded economic compensation at the treaty. Ironically our victory in Russia lost us the war." Ludendorff actually had a good point because the idea was to use the newly conquered territory of Russia to feed both Germany's civilians and their troops. Unfortunately the war had devastated the land it would take years before it could yield enough crops for this to work. Way too many economic and geographic factors work against Germany so the war is clearly lost from 1916 onward. Germany was the one which was forced to assist the ever more vulnerable Austria-Hungary and Ottoman Empire. The Arab revolt proved impossible to contain and your average Polish, Czech, Slovak, Croat, Slovenian etc etc soldier had little allegiance to an *Austrian* emperor who didn't speak their languages. Independence movements for those nationalities existed prior to the war already and when it comes to the Poles who have had their country carved up three times in history it's little surprising they wanted Poland to be reborn once again.

[@coolkidsclub9943]

@@paulallen8109 I commend your dedication to your reply! I recognize and agree with the majority of what you said, and taking into account economic issues and Austro Hungarian nonsense, it seems less likely. However, I feel like you give a little too much benefit of the doubt to allied forces. French forces, for example, were practically ready to throw in the towel by 1918, and the German Navy was equal to the British for a good part of the war. Germany should have went for diplomatic solutions in 1916 for their best chance at a real victory. I do take issue with claims of bad German logistics. Many times Germany had the best logistical decisions due to their best implementation of long range artillery, the best adaptation and recognition of machine guns, and took the most daring (albeit risky) actions. The Galipoli invasion, for example, was an outright Trainwreck for Britain, while Verdun, which was costly, was still a numeric victory for Germany. The German war economy wasn't solid enough, and their allies were too unreliable, but Germany itself was solid enough to where they could have won. I also believe if they hadn't gotten the US involved (which supplied France a lot when their production was suffering) via the Zimmerman letter and attacking US Cargo, then they could have had more realistic foes. In Summary, I agree but also wouldn't give that much credit to the Allies, who are making equally bad decisions. I also wouldn't make Austro Hungary out to be quite that weak and hopelessly unfocused. While it was close to its expiration, they still fought well in some campaigns and gave Germany an Ally to take blows from Russia/Italy.

[@richardmeyer418]

Still in use in SADF in 1982 - I was offered a chance to go on a course on them then. Rechambered to 7.62x51 obviously.

[@blueguitarbob]

More like this, please. The discussion of tactics, and how weapons were designed to facilitate those tactics, is fascinating.

[@joshthomas-moore2656]

2:15 machine gun replaced with a mortor. that just shows how good at fireing over hills the Vikers was which was a party trick the gun had. So say you were on a hill and on next hill on the far side you had some enemy troops, just call up the Vikers so long as its in ranger you can litralliy rain bullets down on the enemy.

[@SpLiC3]

Really informative Ian, for example i had no idea about the "tap" method of area suppression.

[@kacasio1]

Im really liking the new style Ian, really enjoyable mix of talking, shooting, B roll. I really enjoy your channel!

[@johngarland1641]

My grandfather was in a machine gun battalion in ww2,spent 1999 days firing one of these.

[@heyidiot]

I am nost impressed by the consistent commitment throughout to the wearing of that crazy helmet.

[@nickjohnson710]

*most

[@Valiran9]

What amazes me is that the Vickers doesn't have any descendants using modern materials, like the MG42 or Browning M2 and M1919 do.

[@teethgrinder83]

It's so refreshing to have a gun video done by an American who isn't being all bombastic and just gives you interesting facts in an engaging way-thanks

[@ricardodavidson3813]

Outstanding video, thank you! As can be seen the rate of fire is not as slow as is often assumed, it fairly churns out bullets, but as Ian observed it jumps about a bit on that tripod, it's a question of tripod design and reciprocating masses in the gun. I have a genuine "Vickers kit" Barr & Stroud rangefinder which I restored to full working order, it has a peculiar tripod fitting. Three points: a) The delay in producing machine guns before WW1 has to do with the "high velocity controversy", when the target shooting lobby stirred the waters to such an extent there was doubt whether .303 was going to remain as the standard caliber, so they hung back before investing a fortune in new MGs. The Germans avoided this as they had recently adopted a pattern, the French weren't changing as they had so many weapons in 8 mm Lebel, but many European powers and the US had adopted small calibers with very high sectional density projectiles. b) The .303 round for this would be the Mk 8, a boat-tailed bullet that transitioned from supersonic better and gave much better long range performance. Combined with cordite, which burns very hot, it caused much higher barrel wear. An acceptable trade-off in an MG but riflemen were prohibited from using this round (they did anyway...). c) It takes real balls to have your knuckles a fraction of an inch from that flying handle and keep your attention on the target!

[@TheHoodmailbox]

Fun Fact: They used to use asbestos blankets to pick the gun up to move if a position was about to be overrun.

What's the advantage of having the crank handle come so close it would potentially hit the gunner's knuckles? Wouldn't an extra inch or so of clearance be advantageous in order to have fewer gunners with hurt knuckles?

[@jonprince3237]

No, there was a specified way of placing the hands on the grips taught during training (shown in the video) that means your knuckles are always far enough away from the crank handle to make it very unlikely to be hit.

[@donjones4719]

@@jonprince3237 Ian showed exactly the officially specified grip you mention, and said that's the grip that gets his knuckle rapped. And you can see why, there's very little clearance by his knuckle - so he had to use a lower hold.

[@RedOrm68]

I'd say less high grade metal used = less weight and less cost. Ian did mention that one gun - without trimmings - cost the equivalent of $ 10.000.

[@slammerf16]

I think it wakes the gunner up if he dozes off....

[@gabenplznerf1093]

The pacing of this video is very nice. Your videos are constantly getting better and better.

[@gilthew2855]

Thanks for that. Amazing engineering. I haven't seen one since 1964 when it was part of Austrailan range training at Duntroon Royal Military College. It was literally firing history

[@Deliverygirl]

Does it hurt when it hits your fingers at 6:50? It does look kind of painful.

[@jakthesmack]

mentions it later in the video. definitely doesn't feel good lol.

[@skepticalbadger]

Deliverygirl This is why your fingers are supposed to sit low on the grips, with the index finger wrapped over the top as Ian's are, but the middle fingers that pull back the safety levers much lower down than he has them here.

[@kellychuang8373]

Deliverygirl Yeah that really does look painful. 1 of those things early automatic machine gunners had to deal with while operating that.

[@hadrianbuiltawall9531]

User comfort wasn't a thing in those days. Consider the typical tank - large steel box containing up to 11 men, an unreliable engine, various weapons, ammo, fuel no seat belts and probably a bucket to crap in. This wasn't a compartmentalised box - everything was in the same box. Crew would frequently pass out from the heat and fumes. And then there's spawling requiring already stressed crew to wear the equivalent of medieval chain-mail so they don;t get cut to shreds by their own tank.

[@kellychuang8373]

Yeah that's true really hard to imagine living in those days let alone operating weapons of that time period.

[@flyingninja1234]

Nice T Shirt by the way. Tremors is a favorite of mine.

[@quistan2]

Nice catch, I should've caught it myself.

[@stevek3036]

Very interesting information about the history, design and features of this gun and all the reviews you have done. Balanced and objective. More please

[@jameswyre6480]

One of the best KZbin moments. I really appreciated the ‘tap’ in action.

[@kjhlkyu]

20:15 Now imagine that for four years

[@MrBandholm]

I know that modern guns are deadly as hell, and intimidating... But the sound of this gun just going on and on and on...

[@eisenkrieg553]

bandholm Are we really sure that these types of guns are obsolete? They seem great for base defense.

[@MrBandholm]

***** I don't think that dedicated base defense MGs are a thing... Other MGs seems to cover that particular job good enough.

[@eisenkrieg553]

bandholm I just don't want to discount what this weapon and surely others like it are capable of. I don't like to dismiss something because of its supposed obsolescence.

[@MrBandholm]

Oh I agree that it is a nice weapon, and all... But it is a bit like the battleship, it still can do a job, but it is rather expensive to keep for just one or two jobs, when there are other systems that can cover the job good enough, and being better at other jobs at the same time.

[@eisenkrieg553]

bandholm But that's just it. The Gatling gun was pretty damn obsolete, but the concept was re-envisioned and now look. That application isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And Battleships might have a role again with advances in ballistic technology. The railgun or coilgun or similar has the ability to give renewed purpose to such a dinosaur. Obsolete today does not mean obsolete tomorrow.

[@BuggaBoy69]

This is still my all time favorite video on forgotten Weapons, it just encapsulates Ian’s witty approach to firearms education

[@davidrichards2237]

"Most of these expert rifle men would become casualties." I just about cried.

[@ianc4901]

"I'm a lead farmer motherfecker" !

[@angryyogbuscus1578]

"I need a big gun that fires a lot of bullets."

[@cj4ebay]

thank you for providing a lot of knowledge on these weapons without the fluff. Love the channel.

[@papabeanguy]

Ever since i found this channel it has become my favorite on youtube

[@Vidar_Odinson]

was expecting the old intro music there :)

[@mark-wn5ek]

The music is sooooo Mr. Rogers. "Oh hello there!...It's a wonderful day in the trenches, a wonderful day in the trenches, oh would you be, oh could you be my Vickers!

[@johnqpublic2718]

Been waiting for this one. thanks for all the hard work!

[@neilbone9490]

Vickers were built just up the road from me at Crayford, Dartford in Kent. Still a local amateur football (soccer) team called VCD formed by the workers.