Victor for Victory! The VTR-9B (and derivatives) and it's failure.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

I didn't know this video would go this way, thanks for the views everyone! I will have an upcoming #battletech video every week going forward, dropping on Tuesdays. I have down the line right now: The Kintaro, The Guillotine, Clan 65 ton 'mech overview and the CoreTek 275 Mafia (Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Wolverine). I am not sure the order they will release, but probably pretty much as stated there. If there are other 'mechs you want to talk about, post it here!

[@schaddenkorp6977]

My only issue with your video was your pronunciation of “Steiner” as “Stainer”. It’s Sty (like pig sty) + ner (like saying nerd).

[@roguedexx938]

Battletech making a real comeback.. I’m a fan through novels and video games from the past. I’m back playing MWO and eventually MW5

[@ambientlight3876]

The standard Victor's main claim to fame is that it's a terrifying shock trooper in urban areas and built up terrain. It can jump behind most targets, unload its weapons and then jump away before experiencing significant reprisal. It's simply not intended as a front line fighter like the Atlas or the more efficient Hunchback. Used as intended the Victor can take down much larger opponents like the before mentioned Atlas if given the opportunity.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

As a heavy cavalry 'mech it does well, but again, there are better options that do similar things most of the time. The biggest claim to fame of the Victor is that it ends up being "common enough" that people will be fielding it compared to other specialized options.

[@roguedexx938]

I saw one of my Fav BT novel characters next to the Mech he was named after…. I subscribe immediately 🎉

[@christopherlants3712]

Makes an incredible urban fighter.

[@ImperviousSC]

I actually really like using this mech in Mechwarrior 5. I don't pilot it myself, but I really like it when piloted by one of my lancemates. I personally dislike piloting anything slower than 64kph in the game, therefore I need my lancemates in mechs that can keep up and the Victor is one of the heaviest that can keep up. My lancemates never use jump jets effectively, so I drop those and swap the SRM4 for a SRM6. The mech works great with either the AC20 or a Gauss as the primary weapon. The AC20 variant draws a lot of attention, so I can more freely target things without worrying about drawing all enemy aggro. A victor with a Gauss rifle is just a good solid assault mech in multiple range brackets. Regardless of which one I give to a lancemate, it has ballistic, missile, and energy weapons, so this is useful for training my lancemates with all different weapon types in the long run too. If I don't have the drop weight available a Hunchback is good as an alternative, but I found that I have the weight available more often than not to run a Victor.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

The Victor falls in the "it's good enough at what it does" category, which makes it a decent choice... Until something better is available.

[@nurgle333]

It's great as a lighter Highlander, one of the hero ones is awesome I couldn't figure out to do with the basilisk one though

[@ImperviousSC]

@@nurgle333 lbx 10, medium lasers, 3 srm4, and guardian ecm, and drop he jump jets for heat sinks and armour. It's kinda half way between a gauss and ac20, as it has better range than the ac20 but less than the gauss. The guardian ecm is super nice. Again, i give it to my lancemates. I tried double lbx, and it's good, but not good enough imo. Too much weight for both the guns and all the ammo you chew through limits everything else on the mech.

[@nurgle333]

@@ImperviousSC my OCD can't stand unused hard points even unused jumpjets russle my jimmies a bit

[@atmosdwagon4656]

Victors are very good mechs in MW5 for player usage because their primary weapons are arm-mounted, which offers the widest field of fire, while sidestepping the biggest problem of the Atlas and Highlander. On top of that, they get Jump jets, making the Victor the heaviest shock trooper style mech you can field that can actually move faster than the speed of smell. As far as safe and practical A.I. cohort mechs go, they're up there with Battlemasters and Awesomes, though I'd personally replace the AC/20 with an LBX/10 or Gauss Rifle pronto just to bump their effective range up. All that said, they're pretty crap in the tabletop.

[@thepbg8453]

Funny you say 'it never was a force changer', because last night I was in a IS vs clan game set in 3049. My Victor got disabled early when lucky crits took out its dual ammo stores for its Gauss, and it spent the rest of the game ignored by the enemy. By the end of the match I advanced on the sole remaining enemy direwolf with a fairly intact lance, and the thing took out a semi fresh Wolverine, and badly mauled a Black Knight to the point it was limping. However he ignored the Victor after losing its main weapon, and I managed to close and DFA'd his direwolf and his ATM ammo, blowing up half his mech in the process. While the victor did go down the next round I was very swift to mop up the now crippled direwolf. So a mix of what you said, but it massively turned the tide.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

The Victor is just that, a situational 'mech that does great when it does but is just average at best in most other situations.

[@Nostroman_Praetor]

In Mechwarrior 5 Mercenaries, The Victor is your character's dad's mech. Even if its ultimately not the best option, battletech gets by on good enough. Even if you never plan on using it, sentiment for keeping it around may lead you to try it out. Its a fairly modular mech so you can repurpose it for a number of things.

[@WickedPrince3D]

I always called the Victor, the "Victim", because of it's lack of ranged weapons it usually gets murdered before it gets more than a shot off. Though the gauss rifle variant would be superior.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

I have done some pretty nasty things with it recently, often because it doesn't get primaried before getting in range on tabletop.

[@WickedPrince3D]

@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn For me any mech that can one-shot kill is primary target; thus any mech with an AC20, or Gauss Rifle (or Clan ER PPC, etc), is always target number 1. The last time I went up against a Victor in tabletop was shortly after the Clan introduction. I came up with a silly close-combat "vulture" - 4 medium pulse lasers with targeting computer, 4 streak 6-packs, with reasonable ammo and enough heat sinks that it only overheats based on it's movement IF all streaks launchers hit. Using the targeting computer to target the torso I think will hurt most with the lasers usually lets me completely strip that area's armor; then I pepper with SRMs to finish. I saw the Victor on the field and had to maneuver to not get destroyed by his ranged support before I got within my 12 hex range. Then I stripped his right torso and peppered it with SRMs until it fell off. Victor player was not happy. His allies decided maybe I needed more attention and continued to harass me. -Which is exactly what I'd have done as them. But I still managed to dish out enough more damage to cover my tonnage. I haven't played tabletop since the group I used to meet with weekly collapsed - decades ago now. But we played regularly for about five years. Admittedly the clans were the big reason most quit. Unless everyone was playing Clan tech, and could pick the Omni's that were good, not just barely decent; it wasn't fun anymore.

[@ARCCommanderOrar]

Well, the algorithm blesses me with another Battletech content creator! Blake be praised!

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

I'm just starting in creating Battletech content, but it seems to be popular enough for me to work hard on it.

[@KageRyuu6]

With its primary 3/6/9 ranged brackets and jump jets it's clearly best used for city and jungle fighting. In which case the only thing I could argue against is the weapon placement and missing hand, as having them torso mounted and a second hand would make it all the deadlier in melee. While the Gauss upgrade does significantly improve its flexibility at a modicum of its firepower.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

Going "back in time" to the our Succession War era, it wasn't that bad. Nowadays with all the options, it doesn't do much.

[@AnonymousONIagent]

In my ilClan narrative games I have been running a (very expensive) custom ClanTech Victor with a HAG-40, a Streak SRM-4, dual ER Medium lasers, and a targeting computer. I don't take it out often due to repair costs, but when I do it is an absolutely terrifying thing to behold.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

I played around things and made a "cheap" Victor C, if needed, I can find it and post it here.

[@z3r0_35]

What I tend to do with Succession Wars-era Victors when running campaigns in MegaMek is I take out the AC/20, stick on a PPC and an LRM-10 to cover long range, and max out the armor to 15.5 tons. Alternatively instead of the LRM-10, I'd increase the SRM launcher complement to a pair of SRM-6s with two tons of missiles and add another heat sink. The former option basically turns it into a giant Vindicator, a decent jack of all trades that can handle just about anything decently well. The latter keeps it an effective brawler but also lets it hit things from further away than 270 meters (9 hexes), so faster units can't evade you as easily.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

The problem with Battletech is that a lot of people think "customizing mechs on the fly" is something that can be done since all the video games let you do it. Such a massive refit of the 'mech would be almost impossible without a full factory or facility to do it.

[@z3r0_35]

@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn Not true. Extensive refits like this can be done even in the field provided you have the right facilities and equipment...and a few weeks or months to spare. Any merc company worth their salt will probably have access to such facilities if they're working in the Inner Sphere (the Periphery is another story). Fortunately, Battletech is a game built around prolonged campaigns, so there are mechanics that can simulate the refit process and how time consuming it can be.

[@arcdecibel9986]

Yeah, this was my favorite mech as a kid, since it SEEMED to do everything I wanted. It had jump capability, it had decent speed, it had some armor, it packed a punch, and it looked cool. Sadly, it's just not very good in most roles BECAUSE it tries to have all those things with the wrong tonnage. That Pitban 320 engine is a monster to lug around when a lighter chassis with a smaller engine would be more efficient, or the mech could drop speed. Good call on the highlander being a better-designed platform for the Victor's intended roles, as well as others.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

In the end, during the Succession Wars, it was the 'mech you had, so it was good enough. When options become available...

[@mathewkelly9968]

If you just look at it as the Heavy trooper mech it is the Victor is fine . As a Capellan i like put one with a Catapult and a pair of Vindicators . And later this turns into a Sniper for Capellans especially with Stealth Armour .

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

The problem is that with this type of mobility (with the jump jets), it really fits a cavalry role better than a trooper role, in the same family as the two lighter gunslingers, the Clint and the Enforcer. It can be used in that role, but it is not where it would shine.

[@jacobbronsky464]

I really like the 10L ! It's really Vindicator-esque in its do-it-all way.

[@banner1390]

I like this mech a lot. At least in the strategy video game BattleTech. The Jump jets and 20AC is great!

[@WolfHreda]

HBS Battletech is responsible for me liking half the mechs I do now. The Blackjack, the Jagermech, the Vindicator. All mechs I originally didn't care for, but came into possession of as a merc leader and grew to adore.

[@liljenborg2517]

The Victor (and the Zeus) suffer from the "lowest weight bracket in their class" problem that you also see with 60-ton mechs, like the Dragon, and 40-ton mechs like the Clint and Hermes. They're given the mobility of mechs in the lower weight class, but the weight curve means that they're engines will take up a HUGE amount of their weight and you have to sacrifice armor and firepower for that one extra movement point. You actually get twice the bang for your buck buying a pair of Hunchies (C 3.5-million) than a single Victor (C 8-million) - as you point out in your video. This is a problem in every weight class (medium, heavy, & assault) that the lowest weight mechs in the class just suffer from the Engine Rating weight curve. The temptation is to make them as mobile as a mech only five tons lighter rather than the "standard" movement for their weight class, but that ends up taking a huge chunk of their mass and you usually end up with mechs armed and armored as lightly as mechs far lighter, and all you get in return is a couple of points of melee damage and a point or two of internal damage. Take for example everyone's favorite 80-ton mech. Instead of going for making it as fast as a heavy, the Awesome has the movement profile of other assault mechs, and it's got room for 3 PPCs and enough heat sinks to consistently fire two of them and alpha strike with all three with minimal heat build up.

[@aquarius5719]

It looks like sort of an ambusher mech. Unlike a sniper like the Awesome, it can only snipe with AC20. But it seems better to use all of its weapons combined. So Victor must sneak until it reaches mid range for medium laser. Then stop and fire.

[@liljenborg2517]

@@aquarius5719 Like a Hunchie or and Urbie, yes, the Victor is actually a pretty nasty customer in a city or in very hilly terrain. It's very mobile for an 80-ton mech and great at hiding in alleys, gullies, or side streets to hop over a building or cliff and drop an AC20 round in someone's back armor, or finding short-range sniping spots atop hardened structures. And, though lighter than average armor for an assault, it does have the armor to take a few return fire shots. I do prefer the later iterations with Gauss Rifles. It makes it a great leader for a raiding lance.

[@pitbullseatkids2682]

dropped a follow, looking forward to your vids on battletech/mechwarrior

[@Taurevanime]

I love the Victor, and while I agree that there are better more well rounded mechs out there, that are even jump capable such as the Highlander. The Victor does do something that I cannot think of many other mechs that do it much better, and that is have the 4/6/4 movement profile while packing a 15 ton ballistic weapon. At least not without going to the much more vulnerable XL engine. And the same goes for if you want to go faster. One interesting thing is that in the succession wars era, the Victor is a very common Federated Suns design, as is the Enforcer. And they both share the same movement profile, and operate around having a large autocannon in the arm. This makes them very nice lancemates, and someone that can pilot an Enforcer, can easily upgrade to a Victor. But in later eras there is a speed disparity as the Enforcer adopts an XL engine for more mobility. Though they do pair well as lancemates still, despite the speed difference.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

The Victor is a solid design, but it is a risky one as well. In Succession War era, it is a scary thing as it is mobile and packs that 20-class. Later on, the Gauss Rifle does help it quite a bit.

[@Taurevanime]

@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn True, but I do like to take out the 10D if I know I am going to be fighting in dense terrain.

[@LeaderoftheFates]

I love the hero victor you get in MechWarrior5 the basilisk armed with two lb10-x, two medium lasers, and three streak 2 srms, equip with jumpjets a guardian ecm suite.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

What I hate about it is that TECHNICALLY it's not a legal setup as you can't fit 2 IS LB-10X the arm. The "legal" setup for it would have one in the arm and one in the torso. But yeah, I use the BSK all the time in Mech5, it is fantastic.

[@LeaderoftheFates]

Very true I chalk it up to hero mech engineering.

[@hideshisface1886]

It is basically within the cursed weight bracket - the lower end of each weight class. The types of mechs that either do not know what they are supposed to be, or mechs that must sacrifice way too much to maintain mobility of their previous weight bracket. These kinds of mechs often try to be two things at once, and end up not being that great outside of fairly specific scenarios. These kinds of mechs have to deal with all the drawbacks of being higher weight bracket, while also being compared to some of the best of the previous one. Things like Cicada or Assassin have to deal with good light mechs, such as Jenner, or Firestarter, which basically wipe the floor with them in most aspects. For heavies like the Dragon or Quickdraw, you have amazing mediums, like Wolverine. And finally Victor or Zeus have legends such as Black Knight or Orion, or Marauder. On this "border" weight you don't get much of a bang for your buck in most cases, though there are some nasty exceptions, like Awesome.

[@KageRyuu6]

Incorrect, 75-85 tons is optimal for 4/6/4 Standard Engines, so there is no sacrifice beyond c-bills, if anything there are only more benefits for going 80-85 tons for the extra structure and more potential armor.

[@hermes7587]

Every Mech with an AC/20 has huge sign on it: "Priority traget! Shoot me first!" This applies especially to the Victor. It the most mobile of the AC/20 carrying Mechs in the 3025 era but it does not have the armor for staying in a protracted fight. Fielding a Victor gets you a lot attention but it is a huge gamble. Either the Mech manages to close in and hits something or it will be destoryed trying. It is a high-risk Mech that might produce spectecular results or not. Unfortunately it is also quite expensive and will tie up a good portion of your force value. This makes fielding this Mech a huge gamble. If you are only interested in the AC/20 try the much cheaper Hunchback 4G or the sturdier Charger 1A5. Personally I prefer the more reliable Grasshopper in the close assault role.

[@schaddenkorp6977]

What I did with the Victor in my 3025 merc unit was to turn it into a better Quickdraw. LRM 20 w two tons of ammo, SRM 6 w one ton ammo, four M Lasers, 14 heatsinks, and the rest was armor. Still has some heating issues, but nothing too terrible.

[@tehpw7574]

interesting angle you provide in your video, sir. There are some mistakes (the B has all it's secondary weapons in the left torso; the arm is free to punch, the 9S model was a succession war version (may have been a one-time refit and not a production model). Everything was mostly correct... please, continue.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

Weird, I could have swore that the medium lasers were in the arm, must have been a weird refit that kept popping up at the factory from the Periphery. I will see what the boys on the floor tell me, but I trust you!

[@dragooncerberus33]

I think what needs to be taking into consideration for weapon of war is cost, maintenance, and manufacturing. The victor as a stand alone mech, is in the kower tier for what people use it for. Still it is my favorite IMHO

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

It is one of those 'mechs that is produced in large enough amount that it will be available to almost everyone, at almost any point in time. Variants and refit kits are where the problems start to pop up.

[@mathewkelly9968]

11:08 oh you one those guys who thinks this is a Davion mech because they held Quentin for a couple of years ........ Is a Hildco Mech ergo Capellan mech . Manufactured on St.Ives , Styx (CC) and Quentin . Edit the later acknowledgement of Liao's the Victor saved a report to the Maskirovka

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

Flanagan's Repair and Refit is already in Maski's list, and I will be happy to remind them why messing with us is not the best plan. *Laughs in Periphery*

[@DIEGhostfish]

Lu wei bing embraces the lack of a LAA and doesn't put that useless false elbow on the gun arm which lets it fire over hills better

[@derekburge5294]

Good video! Appreciate anyone doing BT content. The LBX20 is short range though? 0-12 isn't what I would call short.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

It's not a Gauss Rifle, at the very least, and it doesn't match let's say a large laser. It is better than the AC/20 in that regards for sure though!

[@derekburge5294]

@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn Very valid points, certainly. I always classified them as squarely mid range. Shrug.gif!

[@Reverb154]

Give the Victor a RAC/5 and it can work pretty well.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

It's what Davion did. I agree it works fairly well.

[@verysilentmouse]

Subscribed for battletech content

[@nurgle333]

My brother's favorite mech

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

I understand why. It's great... In its niche. Or with the various upgrade kits.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Even the downgraded Highlanders without the Gauss in the Succ wars era were way rarer than the Victor, not as rare as a King Crab or possibly even the normal crabs or wyverns

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

It was not THAT rare. Factories were churning them out, just that there were fewer factories than for the Victor. For a mercenary outfit or a militia unit, sure, not going to be something you can purchase. For a house military or a military command? You could likely procure them with some elbow grease.

[@sachikomine9816]

Victor's an overgrown Enforcer.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

Or Clint.

[@kris220b]

what is up with the davions and slapping rotary ACs on assaultmechs?

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

Technically a RAC5 has a damage potential of 30, which is pretty enviable on an assault 'mech. Problem is that this is the best case scenario, with all bullets hitting, ect... Never a real fan of the RAC in general.

[@kris220b]

@@ProfessorHeyTeeEn RACs seams neat on a rifleman or something like that ( case and point, hired steel ) not on a victor or atlas III

[@JasanQuinn]

The Liu Wei Bing is literally the "Made In China" version of the Victor. I suspect they got away with it because nobody argues with a 120mm shotgun. Not for long, at least!

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

Made in China, but it works fantastically well.

[@clydecraft5642]

I came here to say babang and jumpjet away after discount highlandering your ass

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

That's the thing, for a merc outfit you might want to go with the Victor, but for a military outfit, the Highlander is generally the better choice. Also, bang bang big gunslinger 'mech. Maybe I'll do a series on the gunslingers.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Feels weird to noy have a lower armon the victor when it is always drawn with an elbow and rhe AC20 can stick into the torso

[@macrux152__8]

Any mech with an AC20 on the arms with such LITTLE armour is just asking for it to be shot down. The Hunchback/Atlas has it on the torso, And even when you take out BOTH ac20's on the arms of the King Crab? You're not gonna get the lrm 15 + LLaser on the torso's. What does the victor have? 2ml's and an srm4. Yeah, Jump Jets aren't gonna be worth that.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

As discussed, in city fights or canyons maybe it will be worth it, but that is limited in use.

[@Llangion]

You have a wonderful accent, What is it?

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

My ancestors were from French Canada, then my people have been Travelers within the Inner Sphere and Rimward Periphery. Flanagan's Repair and Refit facilities on Artru is now my home as I get plenty of engineering work there :)

[@thexsoar]

The Hunchback is clearly a superior Mech. Just ask any Hunchback pilot.

[@DIEGhostfish]

I will say I like a gauss victor be it in mw5 or HBS.

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

There is a reason why EVERY upgrade kits go for long range rather than short range punch. I think the Lu Wei Bing did a good balance with the Light PPC and MML, however.

[@aaronmaclean3889]

Lu Wei Bing best victor out there ( that isn't a victor but i don't care)

[@ProfessorHeyTeeEn]

It is like the Mustang to the Pinto indeed.