Victoria 2, Advanced economy guide

An advanced economy guide, hopefully cover all aspects that are connected to economy in any way. This is probably the most complex and one of the most interesting parts of the game, that is why a guide is a bit longer than most of other guides are.

[@mekingtiger9095]

Also, one important thing to advice here: GRAB GOLD MINES! Or at least sphere countries that have them. Few players know it, but the world of Victoria 2 already technically lives out a liquidity crisis from day 1. Because of the way the economy and prices in this game work, currency has no real valuation or devaluation, and the _true_ only thing keeping your POPs from affording their goods is a lack of coin flowing through them (I can go on with this topic if you want to ask me, but it basically is about how "demand" in this game only counts towards POPs and entities with currency to put into the trade queue to order goods and how the prices just go back to their base value if the amount of supply relative to counted demand is at a 1:1 ratio). Because of it, Victoria 2 is a game where the richest nation actually is the one that manages to retain the most amount of gold/£s flowing inside and into its system by syphoning it off from other industrialized nations through outcompeting their exportation markets. If you assert control over precious metal provinces, then any new currency generated from them will have to get through _your_ country first before flowing away to other Spheres of Influence. So yeah, contrary to what real world economics say, *MINT AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU CAN!*

[@uncletimo6059]

"So yeah, contrary to what real world economics say, PRINT MONEY!" You don't realize that real world economists are all screaming to print money? And all the nations do so, from Argentina thru Poland and USA to Zimbabwe?

[@mekingtiger9095]

@@uncletimo6059 Printing _as much money as you can put into circulation on the market.*_ Never thought I'd have to explain such figure of speech.

[@uncletimo6059]

@@mekingtiger9095 show me an economist who is against "printing money". hint - so called austrian economics do not count

[@mekingtiger9095]

@@uncletimo6059 Bro, you still don't get it: That piece wasn't supposed to be literal. It was meant to mean "Print so much money to the point where in real life it would cause hyperinflation on the level of the Weimar Republic and Venezuela's". Yeah, you _have_ to print _some_ money irl. No shit, Sherlock. I never meant to say otherwise.

[@uncletimo6059]

@@mekingtiger9095 actually in game, it is not "print" money, it is gain provinces with precious metals (gold). so..... totally different. wording IS important.

[@NEXUS12LETSPLAY]

This was priceless for me. I had my tariffs at 0% all this time, and didn't even think about having enough goods for the factories without having to import. I will be subscribing :)

[@timbovenizer6962]

NEXUS12 meh, if you are maxing the hell out of your tariffs you are killing off your middle class pops which is why people never see 4% clerks. Unless your nation is producing all of the luxury RGOs your middle classes need then you are going to struggle to have a middle class when you have 100% tariffs.

[@ColonelBragg]

I'm trying to grasp this games economy still just recently bought it since it was like the only more paradox game that i didn't own kind of reminds me of HOI3 a little but i always automated that one

[@TheHanspeter8]

You mainly want railroads for the RGO output increase, throughput isn't really relevant to the profitability of a factory therefore the bonuses from the production chains are not really that important as well. You are proposing many good policy choices but sometimes for the wrong reasons e.g. in one sentence you imply that tariffs are also taxing exports, or at one time you mentioned that lowering tariffs might be a good idea to increase the profitability of your industry while saying 5 minutes before this moment, that the factories don't really care about tariffs if they don't have to import (You should say it helps factories because your POP's have more money to spare to consume more goods if they don't spend it on paying your tariffs, therefore making your factories better off). There are many incorrect or confusing statements also regarding bureaucrats and aristocrats (which you only want if an RGO is full and is really valuable, but it never happens that you don't better spend your NF elsewhere). Further it is very beneficial to have a lot of clerks since they increase factory profitability by increasing output + they increase RP, they are one of the best poptypes ever and you really want them to be 4% of your population. Medicine is such an important tech since it's inventions increase pop growth, you should prioritize this tech or culture techs for more RP points and the national focus ones (and the education ones, until biologism, if you have really low literacy).

[@slayzgames]

@ Volodymyr Bondar 1) Use subsidies to cover for losses your factories make. Note that even if you lower your tariffs to for example 0% or even go to -15% certain factories will start making money, however this doesn't mean they are actually making money, let's say that you have an ammunition factory that is losing 3£ a day, if you lower tariffs it will start making 0,5£ a day, it seems that it's making money now, but actually your government is paying the input money for this factory so you are actually still losing money. 2) If you have high taxes and high tariffs on your middle class artisans will lose battle with factories and will be forced to change pop type. 3) If your county is producing enough goods to supply your population then tariffs will make little difference, the best strategy for the late game is to decrease all taxes to 0% and get your tariffs high (from 60 to 100%) if you are making money with this setup then you are managing your economy good. (Note that sometimes this is not possible due to being in others sphere) 4) I personally like to start with state capitalism to make sure that I am the one producing luxury goods for my capitalists that way once I decide to switch to laissez faire my capitalists will have no problems getting luxury goods. Another option is to reduce taxes on rich strata while keeping high tariffs, this way your capitalists will have enough money. If you don't have enough capitalists you may try to reduces taxes on middle strata. Don't forget that National focuses are far better for promoting POPs than taxes/tariffs. If you feel your internal market is weak then you have to consider getting some more industrial and commerce techs or simply getting land that provides certain goods your country needs.

[@slayzgames]

Volodymyr Bondar National focuses really. There are other ways of boosting up craftsmen promotion but not as effective. Lowering your spending on clergymen,craftsmen and soldiers to 20%, having open factories that are not full. And having high literacy. Also subsidizing factories to make sure they have enough money to pay your workers.

[@larsringvold1332]

Slayzer Your government is not paying the input money unless you go below 0% on tariffs. If you go from 20% to 0%, the producers/POPs will simply go from paying the government money, to not paying at all. If you keep tariffs high in the long run, your POPs and factories may only afford goods and resources produced within your own market, which will destroy your economy. Keeping tariffs at 5-10% (preferably 0%) seems to be the generally recommended figure.

[@Jansay34]

Lars McBane Unless you have access to markets which produce the goods you need to run your factories, right? Like how he made an example of Greece with fruits. As long as you get fruits for cheap prices (since they're in your SoI) it matters little if you tax 'em into space or not even though you import fruits to run factories... right? I'm not sure, just confirming.

[@chadjohnson8259]

watching for the fourth time today. I always manage to pick up something new

[@yonkokaido6955]

Everyone gets slaves in vic 2 wrong. in vic 2 slaves are actually quite useful. They have no life needs (less rebels) and they give a big boost to rgo output. This can make up for their lack of taxes and inability to buy everyday and luxury needs (that said they have very low everyday and luxury needs so they dont get as many negatives from not filling them ( everyday need 1 coal nd luxury need 1 opium)) with reforms these can be rounded down to 0 making them unable to revolt while still giving a big rgo output boost. Edit: in other words there are situations to free them and situations not to. And even situations to become a slaver with a starting non slave country (like if you play germany and want to take land in the Caribbean)

[@oLii96x]

They are cheap labour, but their low life needs also mean less demand for goods, and thus factories produce stuff that is less demanded in the population

[@tuluppampam]

Economy in Victoria 2 works very similarly to economy in real life (plus many wonky things, like artisans producing tanks from fruit), so slavery is a poor choice Economy grows with the continue flow of money, meaning everyone needs and buys something, thus fueling the economy Slaves lack needs, thus you do not really want them They can though start an economy by getting you more resources, but after starting your economy you want to get rid of them Taxes aren't important regarding slaves, their needs are

[@Jesse_Dawg]

Very helpful video. Thank you

[@justCan94]

Wow. I found this video while searching. Thank you sir.

[@slayzgames]

@cheapRoc Sorry couldn't directly reply on your comment due to glorious new youtube features.. Anyway I strongly recommend vanilla, New nations mod can also be fun as it's more accurate when it comes to some countries borders, also some interesting events are added, however I don't like the colonization system.

[@adollar6207]

thank you for teaching me :)

[@crackshack2]

begininers of victoria 2 should play prussia or france, theyre great nations to learn the game with because they have a good population, start with decent literacy, and have access to vital resources sweden too if you want a challenge britain is too easy and you may get shocked in the mid/late game

[@crackshack2]

Sotos Pro I guess, kinda hard, at least as an Italian minor trying to form Italy and beating Austria and France in Influence wars. But eh

[@BloodRider1914]

America?

[@fromant65]

Nah, prussia is hard for beginners. The sphere thing is complex. France in the other hand, very easy. Uk not that easy, you have a massive colonial empire to pay attention to. Scandinavia/Sweden is just boring for me

[@Bocator]

​@@fromant65 France can be hard because of Germany if you don't crush Prussia early. As the game goes on even the AI can easily becomes a powerhouse as NGF/Germany, and they'll come for Alsace-Lorraine. Possibly more. Even worse if they got the UK as an ally. Can be quite challenging especially for a beginner. The only difficulty of Prussia/Germany is the early game of sphering some minors, once that's done NGF/Germany is the easiest nation by far. I'd say learning to sphere minors is easier than learning how to beat Prussia/NGF/Germany as France.

[@fromant65]

@@Bocator it's as easy as crushing prussia declaring in one of the minors so they doesn't call all of their sphere by 1842 or sooner, and if you can ally with UK so they don't

[@ssStolengrad]

thanks fore the tip bro never had a more stabel econemy

[@qwinex5570]

Thanks man even tho i knew how to play around with econemy this expalned it alot more for me

[@deisk2707]

If i want to be Industrial superpower #1, i need to have the most craftsman in the world. If i want to dominate most of the world production, i'll have the most clerks in the world.

[@slayzgames]

That is mostly correct.

[@tteedghihh]

Wow, I'm beginning to see how you could use economic warfare in this game, particularly in multiplayer ;)

[@slayzgames]

Yeah it can be very annoying in multiplayer:)

[@TheHanspeter8]

+журналист You really can't since POP's will always prefer the goods produced in their own country, the only way to do effective economic warfare is to monopolize an RGO (like iron) or virtually monopolize it and get a high prestige.

[@crackshack2]

Not just building factorys early game but encouraging craftsmen early game. Without advanced Industry/Commerce techs.

[@loriedesvari3466]

Hi admin, helps fight crime

[@CasaDoSrJoao]

I really loved your tutorial video! You look like an awesome player! Congrats! This video should go to my favorite list. #Brasil Only thing, I aways have problems with coal, is this normal?

[@theknight4317]

0:34 wat??? This game is all about economy

[@loladas9]

This game is all about pop and literacy in reality. Literacy = research, clerks and consciousness Pop - workers and military. Low pop means your factories and RGOs are gonna be shit, and your economy will also be shit. It means you're not gonna get much money from taxes and tariffs. Countries with big pops are always gonna be unbeatable by smaller ones

[@bg3622]

@@loladas9 countries with shit economy tend to lose those pops to constant rebellions.

[@nouser6541]

I tend to make it more about making colonies in africa majority accepted culture and have the economy the thing that sustains the loss of pop to the colonies

[@RokaSoka]

What if you have an unincorporated colony? Do you get all of the resources directly and not have to rely on imports? Also do you get access to the resources of your spheres of influence?

[@tuluppampam]

Nations within your sphere of influence will first trade with you and later, perhaps, with the other nations This means that spheres of influence allows you to access the exports of other nations first (you also sell your stuff first into your sphere of influence)

[@airstrike9002]

i tried what you did as Sardinia-Piedmont but every time i get liberal agitation which screws me over

[@VolodymyrBondar]

Very good! But I don`t understand one thing. Why do we have to increase tariffs to 100%, when: 1) at that moment our factories will be closed, which buying an import, like a fabric factory. 2)Our artisans going to be more stronger, coz the government protects them from WORLD COMPETITIVE MARKET. They try to annoy our factories, cutting its profit. But we need to decrease artisans` amount for middle and past part of game. 3) Our POPs getting cut real incomes and internal market become less. That`s why internal demand is weak, and the world market`s demand closed by tariffs. There is no initiative to increase production instead of developing import substituted branches. But its existence is necessary when tariffs still high. 4) Capitalists buy luxury goods (that`s an import) and AFTER they decide to invest the rest. If the prices get up, cap. will stop to invest or to do it not frequently as usual. What do we have at the outcome? - Poor population. Weak internal market. No initiative to become a capitalist. And ... no strong, independent economic growth! We will not have a future with liberal parties, coz our real industry is too weak to compete in the World Market. Thank you!!! I`m realy sorry for my bad English. I hope, that you`ll understand my idea))

[@vinicioimbriani3482]

porque meu pinto e pequeno

[@Zcirovic]

Pozdrav brate, svaka čast pre svega! Postaviću pitanje na engleskom da bi i ostali mogli da razumeju. Concerning tariffs. You are proposing setting them to 100% in the early so that artisans use local goods, but doesn't that make it difficult for pops to satisfy their needs when buying non-domestically produced goods like opium, fruits etc. ?

[@slayzgames]

Pozdrav, hvala:) 1. You wan't all of your artisans to demote to more useful pop type. 2. Only your rich strata will be hit by this, but you don't want them having money anyway, unless you are a masochist who prefers playing with laissez faire... (Seriously don't, it never works)

[@sync380]

Putting factories in states with the same RGO only diverts workers form said RGO to factory workers.

[@shashwatsinha2704]

Really?

[@hx5525]

@@shashwatsinha2704 Apparently so,another guy made a comment on it a few months ago.But with a couple of techs related to said RGOs it won’t be a problem anymore

[@shashwatsinha2704]

@@hx5525 Yes, Techs are very important. I once captured the coal producing province of India from the British as Hyderabad. I was quite happy but as soon as I took it over, all labouerers were unemoloyed. I didn't have any minable resources earlier so I did not do coal and iron reserach( needed to get beat the British in army tech to beat them).

[@Suleei]

29:25yes i turn it into manual and buy more, but the problem is that the stupid navy stockpile keep taking it, because the minimum of supplying naval is 30%

[@IGaming02]

what is prioritized civilian needs or government needs while using stock pile?

[@slayzgames]

I've got nothing to support this, but from my experience government needs have higher priority when it comes to using stockpile, however have in mind that those goods are usually different, as your government needs goods to maintain naval bases, army etc. While your population usually needs consumer goods and clothes, now it can happen that you are making brigades so you need luxury clothes, at that point, if there is not enough supply of luxury clothes for both your population and army, your army should be prioritized. Again, this is from my experience I might be wrong here.

[@spitfirefrench]

When I put my mouse over the types of citizens on the budget page, I don't get the pop up with details on each type (as seen around 5:20) any suggestions?

[@slayzgames]

+spitfirefrench It must say, do you have Heart of Darkness?

[@spitfirefrench]

yes

[@slayzgames]

There must be something wrong with the game it should show it once you hover over it.

[@user-dm1kq7rd5e]

Umm hello. I westernized with Korea and I am playing with Korea(Hod) and I conquered 20M population of Chinese region. I am ranking 9 and my literacy is about 60 percent. It's around 1900s and I really tried to industrialize but without subsidizes no factories can survive. My tariffs is set to 0 and I am also using state-produced material bonuses, but why my factories just keep losing money? It says my products haven't sold out... Then how can I make my factories sell out all products? This non-sense amount of subsidizes continuously make me to give up the game. I also tried Lassire Faire but only 3 factories were profitable. Is this because of the low demand?? Or huge population of artisans in China ruined my factories? Please help me. Sorry for my bad English

[@slayzgames]

Hi, I can't tell you much without seeing screenshot or save. But I think you might need more technologies. Usually liquor, glass and wine factories make money for me, but you have a lot of coal if you are playing Korea so you shouldn't have bad economy. Go to trade screen and then "Market activity" there you will be able to sort goods by "cost". If the cost is negative that means you are importing it because there is not enough of certain good produced in your country so your factories need to spend extra money to get it. Sometimes if you are importing a lot of stuff you might want to try using negative tariffs, this way your factories will spend less money when importing things.

[@shashwatsinha2704]

You might not have enough maintenance goods( Machine parts, cement, steel). It is a problem many a time. It has been 5 years since your comment, still playing Vic2 or not?

[@philipkollberg]

How did the multiplayer end?

[@slayzgames]

Multiplayer still going on:)

[@alivaja]

Around 28:00. I thought that goods are delivered only in order of your your prestige rank not the whole rank. Also, around 34:00. Are those Factory bonuses only in Hearth of Darkness-expansion, or are they also in House Divided- expansion?

[@slayzgames]

Yup, it goes by rank, there was a discussion on paradox forum about this few months ago. As for AHD, I'm not sure, I haven't played it that much but it shouldn't be too hard to check.

[@Suleei]

whats the meaning that some prices turns into red in the trade screen?

[@slayzgames]

+MrHashimania What exactly? The small arrows next to the goods?

[@Suleei]

no no. the number it self changes some times into red.

[@Atilla_the_Fun]

+MrHashimania It means that the price is lower than the cost (not profitable). Don't build a factory where the price is colored red, unless you are sure prices are going to rise or if you want to be self sufficient in military goods.

[@Suleei]

+monkeytrollu thanks friend

[@fromant65]

Nah, I'll still get my tariffs at 0% or negative. Anyway great video. I'll tax less the middle class

[@okbro3524]

EU4 economy guide when???

[@crackshack2]

im wondering how to get luxury needs fullfilled. I think it may be cuz i dont produce enough liquor and regular clothes for my pops

[@slayzgames]

+crackshack2 Depends on country really, if you are playing a smaller nation and you simply aren't producing enough I suggest you just lower tariffs so your people don't have to pay extra money on imported goods.

[@crackshack2]

Slayzer i got subsidies on imported goods at 15-25%

[@carlhallstrom3330]

You miss a very important part about tarrifs... And thats inflation of your home produced goods. Say you play a large country like russia, they produce alot of timber for example. Yes you will gain a lot of money my having tarrifs at a 100% but the price of timber will actual change over time and in the long run ruin your RGO goods. If the tarrifs are high enough the price will make the pops unable to buy them and the goods start to flood the global market, utterly destroying the price of the goods, tarrifs is good at some points, but note that it hurts your actual trading power by flooding the market with your most usefull goods.

[@rudewolf9747]

who much industry score did u ever get?

[@slayzgames]

Uh I don't know didn't really keep track of it, I usually play small nations, I guess that my most successful industry was with Netherlands in multiplayer game. I guess the highest industrial score was in one of the games with Austria or UK, but from the games I have record of it seems like I had the most with Serbia(Yugoslavia) ~1900 industrial points in my let's play.

[@woahwow8770]

is this still relevant after all the updates?

[@slayzgames]

Pretty much, updates didnt xhange much in terms of economy, I did learn a bit more since I made this guide though.

[@ecthelionti4828]

@@slayzgames Thanks for replying :) I'll be giving this vid a few more watches for sure. Any particularly important new things you learned?

[@slayzgames]

@@ecthelionti4828 Importance of admin efficiency is probably the most significant thing.

[@tuluppampam]

Updates don't really touch the economy because the Devs have no idea what the code is doing regarding it (they even made a lost about them no longer understanding it)

[@stefank4286]

Ive read somewhere that you shouldnt make factories in Provinces that produce coal / iron (or any valuable RGO) because the laborers will convert to factory workers and you will get less RGO output. Does any1 know if thats true? good video btw

[@slayzgames]

Well yes, but it's pretty much player prefrence, do you value having more workers on coal/iron or having your factory produce 20% more.

[@mekingtiger9095]

It's really up to your own personal preference based on what you plan or want. Sometimes you _want_ to keep the labourers. Other times it won't make a difference either because you're so bloody rich on these resources to begin with that you're on a high surplus and your labourers may serve better elsewhere (I've even gotten unemployed RGO workers out there because of overproduction many times) or just simply because you don't need a lot of Coal or Iron to begin with (There are ways to make lots of profit without depending on these RGO's too much in the long run. The furniture industry line is the main example. It doesn't consume any amount of coal to be sustained and produce its goods. And if you're smart enough to grab Britain's Bengal regions in a war at the right time, clothing industry too (It's even more profitable than the furniture line)). It's all a combination of what you're gonna be producing with your other RGO's + what and how many industry techs you have. The more you have researched, the more you will be able to extract/produce/squeeze out of each individual worker, both labourer and craftsman. Sometimes to the point where it doesn't really matter all that much because you're producing a lot of both using few POPs with extreme efficiency either way. This goes not only for Coal & Iron, but for any RGO in the game out there if we're being fair. So again, it's up to you to consider the combination of factors to make your decision.

[@muffinguy1344]

usca tech tips pls

[@slayzgames]

Depends on what you intend to do, it's possible to colonize quite a bit with USCA. However the opening tech order is standard: 1. Ideological Thought 2. Medicine 3. State N Government 4. Idealism Now it all depends on what you intend to do and what your country needs, I guess it's not a bad idea to consider getting Ad-Hoc Money Bill Printing so you can increase your income. Aside from that you will most likely want to get all the education efficiency techs (finishing with Biologism) after that I don't think you should prioritize education techs anymore as you will get that from reforms. I assume you aren't going to fight massive wars so you will only need leadership tree from military techs.

[@muffinguy1344]

Slayzer Thanks for the tips. should i aim for sakoto or what?

[@slayzgames]

Always:)

[@mekingtiger9095]

Nornally, as Russia, I try not to tax my Rich Strata by the time I do reach the mid game. At all. This is so I can get them to afford their luxury goods, which is important. More luxury goods means more consciousness. And more more Consciousness means they become more and more liberal over time. This is important because passing down reforms as Russia is *A PAAAIN.* Even raising the militancy as much as I can won't get so far by itself and its not worth the constant trouble because the Russian population begins too conservative. The Russian Upper House rule at the start of the game is Appointed, which means only the Aristocrats and Capitalists' combined ideologies get to count towards the UP's ideological composition. I _need_ reforms as Russia because I like to play as "Tall" as I can with highest GDP Per Capita as possible, and promoting more capitalists is never worth it for this end since they'll _never_ come even close to outnumber aristocrats. Specially the Health Care reforms are just too good, though the other social reforms also matter for me. It's just a matter of playstyle in my case.

[@xd-ko9oo]

interesting.. i did not consider not to taxing my Rich to pass reforms at all since the rich strata is so tiny in terms of numbers, but then again oftentimes they are the only ones voting. i'll try it in my next game. thanks

[@Gaamel35]

About the tariff slider part : like in the real world, it's a tax on importations. But as long as you produce all raw materials and intermediate components inside your country or your sphere of influence it has no effect at all on your factories. In that case it acts as some kind of global tax on your population (to import tea, coffee, tobacco, etc). I've always seen tariff as a means to tax more without the need to invest in tax efficiency. At 25:40 you say that you earn tariff money through exported goods. I'm sorry, I thought it was only a tariff on importations. Is the wiki wrong? Actually in the real world, taxes on exported goods are very rare (it's mainly about precious metals like gold, because most states realize it might be important to have physical gold inside the country in case of a real economical crisis) France cannot keep 100% tariff in the beggining of the game though, you are more or less stuck with liberal agitation for 10-15 years which means liberal governments->laissez-faire. Luxury clothes and furniture can be very profitable at start if you manage to grab enough tropical wood and silk in asia (maybe sphere japan for that purpose, because the french silk provinces have an awful pop).

[@KatzeArtemis]

Schlesien = Šlesijen

[@shashwatsinha2704]

Prusy= Prußen

[@HiiPPi3]

try playing an unciv or a south american nation in HoD and aiming for first GP, then tell me balancing your budget is easy again.

[@HiiPPi3]

i mean, prussia, really? Good pops, good techs, good modifiers, good litteracy, good RGO's, of course you can play without minding the economy.

[@slayzgames]

+HiiPPi3 Check my other videos and you'll see that I usually play minor nations.

[@friedrickhugo7562]

Odakle si?

[@slayzgames]

Poz, iz Beograda.