Victoria 3 - A Premature Launch

Paradox seem to have rushed with the announcement of Victoria 3 without properly considering and honoring the game that held on it's own the entire series... And that's in spite of Paradox and not because of them.
Victoria 2 was not great on release and only after 2 DLC's the game was pretty much abandoned by Paradox, despite this Victoria 2 managed to become of of the most loved games in the Paradox catalog and yet there was little mention of it in the hype of Victoria 3.
If Paradox were to truly honor the game that by now has proven itself as an immortal classic I have no doubt that more people would be playing Victoria 2 and as a result would be much more excited about Victoria 3 which up until this point seems very promising.
Paradox failure to honor the game that is such a staple of the Paradox community is truly disappointing and I hope that in the future this will change, especially now that remastered games have proven their profitability.

[@__________________1892]

Your Point is that Victoria II. has Problems so Victoria III shouldnt be realesed ?

[@xionkuriyama5697]

Yeah, this is a weird take from them. Thought they'd talk about issues they had with info we have on Vic3, which would actually be interesting.

[@Haseo7502]

lol. Exactly

[@NB-yu4lj]

I don’t CARE!!!

[@StrawberryCheesecake94]

At first before I fully finished the video I was weirded out too but if you think about it Vic 2 has been out for about 12 years they could've brought mod support or proper multiplayer at any time. He isn't arguing vic 3 shouldn't be made just that something should've been done to fix vic 2's issues.

[@rhzyo]

There's clips of Vic 3 online it looks good

[@noorhanisahabrahman4929]

Rushed?...its been 11 years since victoria 2 released

[@GuardianKikko]

I honestly don't think it is worth updating Vicky 2, it would probably break mods and that is if they still have the source files

[@TheIronWorkshop]

It would not break mods if you simply allow Victoria 2 to use the Steam Workshop like HOI4/CK3 and EUIV do. And surely Paradox have the source code for the game, why wouldn't they have it? It's their game, their in house engine.

[@regretaos8766]

@@imperialnerd7026 Personally I do not think EU4 is not popular or less played than hoi4. Tho I'm not entirely sure.

[@actonvogt5216]

I really do not understand the point of this video. There are problems with Vic 2 and therefore 3 will be impacted?

[@KitteridgeStudios]

It doesn't make much sense to me either. According to this logic, a lot of video game sequels wouldn't get much of a gathering. The same points could easily be made for HoI4.

[@arisaheishi2035]

@@KitteridgeStudios I think that the point of the video just applies partially and in a minor scale, but I don't think that the launch wil be impacted

[@boass]

Yeah? Like does he want paradox to fix Vic 2? Why would they do that when they’re releasing a sequel…

[@jnliewmichael4235]

Your suggestions would probably be a patch, (might be a big one, might be small onen, I couldn't know), something like the 2015 Christmas patch. UI Scaling is probably relatively easy, though I dunno how much work replacing/fixing the multiplayer system could be. Also, remasters are a whole different thing. That would be an actual big commitment. So yeah, I can see the point about UI Scaling. But the point about not patching Vic2 affects Vic3 sales seems to be too much of an exaggeration. Almost the entire playerbase of Hoi4 probably never played Hoi3 before playing Hoi4.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

Which is why I did not suggest a remaster, I only mentioned them as examples that tech limitations can be overcome even with really old games. One of the biggest ways games gain an audience these days is througth streamers who play the games, Victoria 2 is a difficult enough game for newcomers, making it even more difficult for them with these technical issues is something that Paradox could have taken care of. And a bigger Victoria 2 player base = a *potentially* bigger Victoria 3 player base. This way both we the players get a game that's easier to run, play and enjoy multiplayer with and Paradox in turn enlarge their Victoria franchise player base.

[@jnliewmichael4235]

@@TheIronWorkshop Hmm, sure, I guess. Don't get me wrong, I too would like something like the Fallout 3 patch that came out recently (Which not only made the game actually launchable, but also made it suprisingly more stable.) cause for me, Vic2 has bugs like "Alt-tabbing" in fullscreen has a chance of: -causing ridiculous screen tearing (bottom half of the screen black, the top half a streched out mess) - becoming discoloured (rare) -straight up crash are massive pains in the arse, and they can probably fix them with some work. (Among other small bugs (Dead country units, for example)). I will say, the video itself is still kinda weird. My guess is from the hostile vibe that seems to permeate the video. (Though could be something else.) Maybe it's cause mentioning "fixing some elements of Vic2 might be good" does not warrant the kinda stand-uppity tone. But yeah, I understand your points.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

Exactly, and it is this kind of stuff that Paradox could have fixed while we wait for Victoria 3, I really love Victoria 2 but as time goes by it becomes more and more difficult to enjoy it as it becomes more difficult to run without all kinds of issues popping up.

[@_Narkoth]

I'm very confused by this. Why would Paradox update that old of a game? There is no significant gains to be made by doing this. Yeah that game hasn't aged well in some technical respects, but why bother updating it? UI scaling is not gonna actually convince new people to go out and buy this game, that wasn't holding them back before. Also "just add steam workshop support" is not that simple of an operation. Again, Paradox would have to get several people to familiarize themselves with the ACTUAL backend of the game to figure out the backend first, and then be able to add in the updates. That's several weeks worth right there that they could, just instead be working on Vicky 3. Also, saying that they only gave the game two expansions and trying to make that sound like they didn't put much more effort in the game after launch is rather an insult. Most games never see expansions after they are released at all, not to mention this game came out in the era of physical copy releases were still a big thing for PC, I still have mine. Very confused points you are making, that honestly, make it seem like you just want a free update, or something. Which is fine, but there isn't a chance that them not updating Vicky 2 will have any noticeable affect on the potential buyers of Vicky 3.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

You say this as if Paradox is a team of 5 people working in their garage. Is there no possibility in which Paradox can put a few people to update Victoria 2 without stopping all development on 3? Game developers are actually capable of working on a couple of projects simultaneously, shocking isn't it? And yeah just two DLC in Paradox's case is actually a low number when you consider the long life cycles of their other games.

[@geovonnigreen8529]

@@TheIronWorkshop yet they could have more personal actually working on Vicky3 and other games to put out for their Fanabase, why would they update an old game such as Vicky2 when they can just release a far better version the sequel- adding new things will do little to nothing to gain a bigger fan base without them advertising and why would they advertise that when they can use that space for vicky3.

[@Minedodge]

@@TheIronWorkshop Even if they didn't take a Vic3 dev, they would have to take away a developer (or multiple depending on how big the project would be) out from whatever project they're working on to figure out how that old code works in the old engine which is likely outdated. After this is done they need to get this old clunky mess which has not been built to work with Steam and make it work. Not to mention the effort it would take to fix multiplayer, which is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Game developers are capable of working on a couple of projects simultaneously, however it decreases their productivity in both the projects. All this effort for a minor update which only a couple of people will really care about and will probably be fixed in Victoria 3 is just not worth it in the eyes of Paradox.

[@warpbeast69]

@@TheIronWorkshop That's a retarded hottake. It's a super old game that needs to be reworked properly. This is a hottake by someone who hasn't touched an inch of programming, you can just put people to work on old code and expect it to make it work within a few months. It would take more than a year to make something worth and then the public of Victoria2 is extremely small and NICHE, core systems are still very archaic to newcomers and it's not attractive to get into. A WASTE OF MONEY

[@pandaotu]

@@TheIronWorkshop Victoria 2 began development due to a forum poll that decided Victoria 2 would be the next game made. Right after Victoria 2 came out the Clausewitz engine was launched with EU4, to go back to Vic 2 they would have to relearn a 10 year old engine that the developers for have since left the company. The economy was developed by a single person, and so no one at paradox today knows how it properly functions and can code it correctly without critically breaking it.

[@Rio-gk7jx]

I understand that Victoria 2 is unfinished. But that doesn't make Victoria 3 a Premature Launch, the game might launch fine. And Vic2 is very much outdated on graphics and game mechanics, so there's not point at all to even update Vic2.... You should change the title to "Why so many people want Vic3 while it's prequel could still be improved"

[@bemusedalligator]

this... has to be satire, right?

[@Haseo7502]

of course that must be a satire

[@gabrieleporru4443]

ironic, I would have said, rather than satire, throwing it around every time makes it lose a bit of its meaning every time

[@greywind243]

1. The issue of UI scaling feels like such a..first world issue to say the least. Not everyone has a 1440p monitor and some play on laptops that are native 1080p. Looking at older titles: hoi3 has no ui scaling and launched a year before vic2, ck2 got ui scaling with Holy Fury, euiv got ui scaling with Emperor. With that mindset, we should've gotten an update for hoi3 before hoi4. 2. Gamespy was something I don't think many people saw coming when it failed and with many games, it more than likely just wasn't worth the migration. Steamcharts doesn't go back far enough but peak player count has only gotten higher as of recently with peak player count being above 1k consistently only since 2018. If the code is as much as mess as what pdx states and what others say then, it may not be worth it. They didn't move hoi3 over and you could almost stretch eu3 as being in the same boat due to eu4 being launched in a weird between of the end of Gamespy. 3. Vic2 is older than workshop, which yet again, could be a coding issue. We heard time and time again how messy the economy was and we see how it randomly breaks. I don't want to say that PDX *can't* overcome the technical difficulties within the game but more of is it worth it? We see in ck3, hoi4, and now with vic3 that opening their games to a wider audience is their primary agenda. Fixing up vic2 only benefits those who already play it. Using vic2 as a hype train is..difficult as vic2 and vic3 won't play the same. I highly doubt that when they abandoned vic2 all that time ago that a vic3 would ever be in the works to be fair.

[@DreXav01]

I really like your videos but I'm sorry to say you are really out of touch with this one... the playerbase wants Paradox to give its best shot at Vic3, not divide their resources at updating ancient buggy Vic2 so it can serve as a demo to the franchise!

[@undogmatic]

The title of this video is rather misleading, I find. I think a title like "Victoria 2 deserves to be remastered", or "Victoria 2 shouldn't have been abandoned so soon" would provide a clearer message as to the content of the actual video. Victoria 3 isnt' "rushed" or "premature", per se. We need the sequel. Rather, Victoria 2 has been abandoned long ago in a way that it shouldn't have been. Victoria 3 would be premature only and if they release an unfinished product, like the EU IV's "Leviathan" update, or No Man's Sky, or even Cyberpunk 2077. Then, sure, it would be premature, unfinished, unpolished. And I think these are the community's biggest fears: another opportunity lost for a great and satisfying release; our money being spent on a product that isn't worth the money, and we probably woud run into trouble when requesting a refund on steam given how slow paced the gameplay is (2 hours is probably not enough to try it and come up with an objective evaluation), and so on. Nobody wants that after being punished by these combos of bad releases as of lately in the gaming industry.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

The idea is that Victoria 3's announcement was the perfect time to announce the update for Victoria 2, and if working on the update for Vic2 delayed Vic3 announcement for a couple of months we could live with that. Having access to a Victoria 2 that has these minimal features fully working would allow anyone not familiar with the series to play it and get to know it better.

[@gmc6456]

Wut

[@Claseeimperial]

makes a video of how to make flags for the puppets

[@NerfMaster000]

Yeah, no. Premature my foot, we’re long overdue for Victoria 3 in fact.

[@kinemod1252]

4:19 the only one that this hurts is you or people that like vic2 more than vic3 in the future. It will have absolutely no impact on the games launch

[@clutrike7956]

Uhm.... ???????????? ok ??????? what ???

[@omkarchakraborty1739]

OK GUYS IT'S HAPPENING EVERYONE BE CALM

[@KarmaTheNarrator23]

Nope, sorry

[@omkarchakraborty1739]

@@KarmaTheNarrator23 Lol I was sarcastic

[@kossmusic]

I'M CALM! YOU ARE DON'T CALM!!! WE NEED CALM! OMG!!!

[@Decrupt]

Premature? It’s been more than a decade?

[@vasiliosmitropoulos5590]

I do not see a point of updating vic2 now, sure they could have done that 4 years ago, but it is better for all of us for them to work on vic3

[@TheIronWorkshop]

It should have been done before VIC3 was announced which is why the video is called a premature launch.

[@Haseo7502]

before you mean 6~8 years ago. Now its too late to spend time/money with updating vic2

[@johnecoapollo7]

I understand the sentiment behind this (I love Vicky 2, I've been playing it since 2011 and spent more hours than I probably should have on it) and I appreciate it but the rest is a bit off tone. The implication that they shouldn't release Vicky 3 because Vicky 2 still has a few mistakes is rather ludicrous. I haven't seen it brought up for any other game and it would be a waste of the developers' time.

[@Arya-zo6nv]

Well, it's already too late to improve Vic 2 and I'd rather have them to solely focus on Vic 3. I don't want their focus to be further divided. Also there's no need to put more effort into baiting player, because if the game is good, they would come naturally.

[@firstonestudio6286]

How can i custom newmap mod

[@hussienbintalal91]

So you want Victoria 3 or not?

[@giovannimuciacia2428]

he's just assblasted because he failed to set up a lan multiplayer game in 2021

[@smiles826]

I think pdx has a workload capacity, they can only work on so many things at once. If they start working on a victoria 2 remaster they cannot work on something else. Additionally, during the pdx con stream they clearly said that the code for vic2 is a mess with parts beeing written in assembler. They could either rebuild it from scratch or try to work their way through the spaghetti they created. As much as i would love a victoria 2 remaster with all the goodies you mentioned, even i think its a waste of ressources to rebuild a game that has insanely outdated designs 10 years later.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

Adding UI scaling and Steam integration is hardly "rebuilding" the game. It baffles me how everyone suddenly knows so intimately the inner workings of Paradox and have decided that the company will simply collapse if they add 3 features to one game. I haven't suggested a remaster in any capacity, that would indeed take up too much time and resources, what is suggested in this video is the bare minimum and can hardly be as difficult as is suggested. I also find it funny how people who mostly use this channel to learn how to mod the game and in most cases have zero understanding of coding suddenly are also experts at the Victoria 2 code and how efficient or non efficient that code is, all the while not even having access to it at all since afaik the source code was never released. The Victoria 2 mystery code/coder rumors have been reject by Paradox as is seen here: i.redd.it/j5gr1jog02e61.png The people who made the game are still on board, suggesting that they could not figure out their own work is laughable and is certainly not a valid reason for why the suggested changes could not be implemented.

[@sirreginaldjohnston]

3:31 that clip fits so well with the music

[@tahaaydos9385]

When paradox made vic2 they didn't have a coding convention. So vic2 code is hard to read and write. Trust me they would make billion Dlcs if they could.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

EU3 was a mess code wise too, and yet it had 4 expansion packs... This has nothing to do with it.

[@gamesxx-fc6yo]

4 expansions for Paradox y beta male

[@tequt]

@@TheIronWorkshop The amount of expansion packs a game gets does not determine a game's quality. EU4 has a lot of DLC and some of those were really bad and game breaking on launch.

[@Holypikemanz]

goes with my theory that anyone who says "trust me" is low IQ trash.

[@xess4168]

The reason paradox hasn't updated Victoria 2 other than security reasons, is that they simply have forgotten the code, and those employees who built the code and the game have since left paradox. Paradox simply does not have the original source code, nor the know-how to code updates into the game mechanically. So as of right now, if it is not broken, and works fine enough to not crash a vanilla game most of the time, then don't fix it and now have possible game breaking code.

[@Stefan-me7ww]

Your point of view: if my father smoke cigars, I will do it as well? It's a point of view, but a very unlogically one

[@thecakeisalie6392]

I respectfully disagree with this video.

[@kharbetterthanyou8552]

When is it getting released?

[@Rio-gk7jx]

~6 months, give or take a few months

[@kharbetterthanyou8552]

@@Rio-gk7jx but its going to be minimum couple of years to for it to get good because of their dlc policies

[@Rio-gk7jx]

@@kharbetterthanyou8552 Probably, but let's hope it's worth playing at release🙏🙏

[@karolean8342]

Title: Victoria III Video: Victoria II On a more serious note, I don't think Paradox games need remasters, it's not like first person shooter games or RPG's with compelling stories or alternative mechanics that made them fun. EU4 is an improvement over EU3 as HOI4 is, compared to HOI3, and even though some people still prefer the old games over the new ones they're such a niche that realistically speaking, it isn't worth it to remaster old games with outdated gameplay loops that will hurt how modern Paradox Games are perceived as well as making most new players dislike it for its lack of content and/or quality of life features. I don't see why Victoria III would be rushed and I'd even bet that it will sell much more copies and be much more enjoyed than Vic2 ever will (in the same way CK3 is more successful than CK2).

[@tropicalfruit4571]

To be fair I think if their older game were more "readable" and more graphically appealing they'd see some small revival. I started my paradox games adventure with EU4 (still my favourite, don't care what ppl think of that) and I believe the 2nd game I played was CK2 when it went free to play. You can very clearly feel CK2 is an older game and for me it's in that point between "too old" and "acceptable" and it's probably due to similarities to EU4. I though a few times of trying Vic2 but the game just looks too old for me. Call me normie, but at that point I don't know if I want to learn it, CK2 killed me mentally with how unintuitive it was, and I spent like 8 hours watching EU4 tutorials when I first got it because I legit had no idea how to play and the game doesn't try to show you. And the hate EU4 gets is the fact that it's simple; well if it's simple and yet hard to learn then there's an issue. I can also admit, once you know the gameplay loop it is actually quite simple but I didn't get that feeling with CK2, there was always something I couldn't understand, and to jump into an even older game that looks like shit (no offence to anyone but it does look terrible) is just too much effort for me.

[@deadshot8050]

This is gonna be very controversial with this one.

[@castoxmods]

Why did you stop making CK3 vids?

[@Aravothian]

Wait. Does he play Victoria III?

[@mcboat3467]

No

[@Holypikemanz]

classic downer

[@Kilgorio]

Wow

[@redacted5052]

I think your mistake here was making a series of small, niche complaints about Vic2 but an extremely broad title, that tries to tie into the Vic3 hype. If you’d called this 5 things (or however many, I gave up at the 2/3rds mark) Vic2 missed that Vic3 MUST have, youd probably have been fine. You could always reupload under a dif title and do some not so scientific comparison testing.

[@iamxevicho5170]

cheeseburger

[@cezard1470]

Dude,I will ask you here if your discord is closed,why was I banned?

[@ignis4176]

Even with my hopes for a succesful Victoria 3 release fading (in particular after the last DD), I don't see why you focus on the issues of Victoria 2, a very old game by any standard. Moreover, as a professional game developer, I can tell you that the first two points you talk about would require a massive amount of work (multiplayer may be feasible, depending on how has been implemented). I don't know about the steam workshop as the projects I've worked on were never supposed to be moddable, but from what I've gathered from other steam configurations and setups it shouldn't be that difficult.

[@NardoVogt]

I found the last DD brilliant. Exactly what I was hoping for.

[@alligator94gaming2]

I own Victoria 2 but it never worked so I have never played it

[@hamidboaaouid6329]

longe arabic

[@empireofitalypsstimfromano5025]

The Problem Wich You Apparently Have No Clue About Is That They Pretty Much Can't Since The Guy That Made The Extremely Unique Code Of Vicky 2 Is No Longer In Paradox. Early Paradox Didn't Exactly Follow Coding Regulations.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

Clearly you have not watched the video carefully since I only suggested a graphical refresh that would allow scaling of the interface and changes to Workshop integration... Neither of those things have anything to do with the complex economic system of Victoria 2

[@war_devourer9618]

Dude

[@BlueHawkPictures17]

What

[@jakejmullin]

Doesn't seem worth allocating development resources away from just making Vic 3 better

[@KroganWarlord]

yeah no

[@clmdcc]

Victoria 2 did not get mass updates and DLCs as Paradox at the time had the much more profitable games of CK2 and Shortly after EU4, back then Paradox was fairly small studio, and it was the success of those games that turned Paradox into what they are today.

[@dylanroemmele906]

Might've been one of the worse videos I've came across in awhile.

[@dima9171]

Warfare is ruined in vic3.

[@GODVxXxV]

You are asking for vic 2 remaster while vic3 is coming out soon. Totally unnecessary

[@tropicalfruit4571]

What a twisted narrative... So Victoria 3 announced itself prematurely because... Victoria 2 has issues? I don't understand, there's no arguments for your thesis, so to speak. Do you think updating Victoria 2 would make any change on Victoria 3? Like... what? I am *SURE* that the devs are aware of all the issues of Victoria 2 but why would they be wasting time on fixing an outdated game rather than creating a new one with better engine and with better and more in depth ideas? (or at least what they think is better). And what is that in the description? Don't you think that honouring Victoria 2 is making a better Victoria with all the newest shit? If you think about it, if they only had 2 DLCs they might as well put them in the base game of Victoria 3 and theoretically you have a better and fuller Victoria experience. I don't know man, that video is a complete miss, I'd give it an F if that was a school thesis; video just fails to support the statement it makes.

[@xevicho9110]

Yeah this video doesent make much sense

[@xarmi6308]

Bruh I wish I could see how many dislikes this video has, because I'm sure if I had seen them I wouldn't have watched this and wasted my time.

[@NerfMaster000]

Fucking KZbin, the only way now to see if a video’s worth watching is to check the comments.

[@xarmi6308]

@@NerfMaster000 yeah

[@rzu1474]

Yea. No. This is dunb

[@Blxz]

Wasted 5 minutes of my life.

[@Jaredonian]

I feel like if the video was made better, or explained better. A bigger point can be made about Victoria 3 and the actual reasons people want it. Which for the past 6 months have been completely eroded away due to the "new" or "safe" paradox players who have either never heard of Victoria 2, never played Victoria 2, or have ever even wanted to play the game. These people for the most part dislike Victoria 2, and go with the sayings, "its a broken game from 10 years ago, and since it was from 10 years ago, it was garbage. Paradox is actually making something people want to play" this is the new "model" paradox player, as one, they are the antithesis of the 2016 - 2019 paradox players from hoi4 and stellaris, which garnered I'd say, people that are unsafe for a companies reputation. So paradox due to that have been trying to grab at a larger base of people and at a larger goal at extinguishing the 1st generation, and 2nd generation player bases. Victoria 3, was described to be a honorable sequel to Victoria 2, well, too bad that statement only works if a large amount of people want to play Victoria 2, and were waiting for a sequel. Spoiler alert, they had to alienate their original audience, so now, Victoria 3 is a Victoria game only in name. As the only parts of the game that have a resemblance, are that fact that they have pops, and the fact that they are based from 1836-1936. Now you could say, "dude you need to adapt and overcome the changes that were needed from this broken game thats 10 years old." That is partly true, but wouldn't a game that is supposed to be dedicated to the very loyal players that have been playing vic2 for the past 10 years, actually be given a sequel? NO! Instead, its stellaris 2, I don't think stellaris is bad, Stellaris is a game that actually good, but Paradox doesn't really like that old player base, and they have to make their game more "accessible" to people. That which has garnered a very annoying player base that sucks up to paradox and defends them at every inch. CK3, and imperator are dead games to me, as one was killed by the playerbase, back when they were widely still the hoi4 and stellaris playerbases. But somehow, Ck3 has one of the best reviewed games in history. Probably because the entire floc of new players overran the paradox fanbase, and they've never played a paradox game before, or even a grand strategy game before, so thats going to be the best review they're going to give to the game. Even though CK3 is a shallow game just like imperator, because it had mana, paradox really just had a dumb downed ship and fix later game. Somehow people think CK3 is better then CK2? Just because some redditors thought some random stuff was funny, oh please. When the top reviews are about inc***, you know theres a problem, and people looking forward to paying money to features that should already be in the game at launch. In one of the reviews "dumb fun" is mentioned about how its so great. Too bad dumb fun only lasts a couple of hours when you will go back to wishing for an overall better playing experience and better game. This review sums it up well: "I really do not recommend this game. There are some neat ideas and some fun mechanics, but when it comes down to it, there's really not much to do in it. On the off chance you make it through the first five years without being ganked by massive armies you can't hope to fight, there's not much waiting for you. The politics is simultaneously incredibly simple and frustratingly convoluted. Intrigue isn't exciting, you can't really wage war because everyone has a million allies. The rock-paper-scissors of soldiers is pure luck. Not to mention, you remember Gavelkind from CK2? Literally everybody's least favourite feature? They made it so that Gavelkind is MANDATORY across the entire map until the Late Medieval era, even though that isn't historically accurate. They also made it so that you no longer get claims on the land you lose. I guess since there's barely anything to do in this game, they're hoping that constantly reconquering the same provinces will keep you engaged. This game is a waste of your money and I feel ripped off. I might not if it was 10-20 bucks, but 100? I wanted to like it, and there are some things like the lifestyles or dread mechanics that I think have a lot of potential, but when it comes down to it this game is just un-fun and trades both realism and gameplay for pointless frustration. Go buy CK2 instead. That one actually properly goes on special and even vanilla CK2 has way more to do in it. Add in a few DLC and it makes this game look like a joke. Come to think of it, when was the last time Paradox made a good game?" Too bad that voice will never be heard because the swarm of redditors is too large to stop from them influencing the game, rather then someone who could spend some time reviewing the mechanics. I mean it shows, the KZbinrs shilling for Vic3, (especially that one proud bavarian guy) who forgets about any of Victoria 2's mechanics, and says that hes never played it. But makes reviews about how great paradox is doing. Like as if Victoria 2 never existed. At least the spudgun guys care. Don't even get me started on the crackpot bullshit. If anything, it made people realize how Vic3 isn't going to be a successor, its going to be Stellaris 2 but in the 19th century. Yes it would be nice to have Vic2 updated or remastered, also the comment: "But the point about not patching Vic2 affects Vic3 sales seems to be too much of an exaggeration. Almost the entire playerbase of Hoi4 probably never played Hoi3 before playing Hoi4." Is kind of ironic, because the last part has applied to the first part. I genuinely now hate both the paradox pr, and the fandom. As it has been molded into something i've disliked about other games for the past 5 years.

[@TheIronWorkshop]

I agree and disagree with what you said, CK3's biggest flaw for me was indeed its lack of content compared to CK2 and whenever this point is raised it is immediately shut down with the argument that you can't compare a game that just came out and has no DLC and expect it to have the same amount of content as the previous game. And there is merit there but I am convinced that Paradox cut too much, for example the next DLC they are bringing back character items, something that probably could have stayed in the game and be there on release and yet Paradox made a deliberate decision not to include that aspect. I still had a good time in CK3, it was actually too easy compared to CK2 and that is something that will hopefully be dealt with with updates and patches. It is true that a new generation of players is now the majority of the Paradox community but I don't see how it could be any other way and while some of them no doubt prefer simplicity we did all witness the backlash to Imperator Rome's mana system which shows that there is only so much abstraction and dumbing down players are willing to accept in a grand strategy game. I've stopped reading and watching Vic3 dev diaries because I don't want to form an opinion about the game before I play it... Stellaris in the 19th centaury may actually work out fine, we will have to wait and see. Despite a vocal minority in the comments I think most of the viewers of this video understood the point I was making.

[@based_dragon_0110]

This is the worst take.

[@wickedAberration]

I loved Vic2, and I'm pretty much loving everything I've heard about Vic3.

[@takumu781]

@@wickedAberration same here, I'm cautiously optimistic tho. From what I seen people are just mad that they can't cheese the ai with just being able to move their army around. Personally I think this new system could be good if done right

[@generalmark7630]

I think this victoria3 can be a Epic fails if war are crap

[@TheIronWorkshop]

Honestly I stopped watching/reading the dev diaries since I want to play the game for the first time without any preconceived notions and explanations on how the game works and plays so no idea about that.

[@generalmark7630]

@@TheIronWorkshop until i see warfare i was hyped. Now i am terrorized how War work because automatism like Battle planner in hoi4 Is crap...and the war are like a risk

[@TheIronWorkshop]

As I said, I didn't read/watch the warfare dev diary but as someone who experienced the tedious effort of commanding 20+ stacks of units over the vast Russian planes while at the same time invading France, some automation might be a good idea but I'd agree that I don't want Vic3 turning into HOI4... The two should be very different games.

[@muhammadabdullahhanif8860]

@@TheIronWorkshop I dont think it would be like HOI4, because they said in dev diary is there is no unit that you can manually control on map.I think you should watched cracked pot theory video by One Proud Bavarian to have an idea about new war system. Also there is more dev diary about war to come, we must wait and see it.

[@Sushi3477]

@@TheIronWorkshop it’s going to be the HOI4 air war system, just for entire regions of the map and for ALL warfare. At least that’s what the DD sounded like to me.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

Paradox, games workshop, Disney... the list goes on, I don't know why these people are mismanaging their successful businesses with so much vigor... is it really so joyful to shoot yourself in the leg time after time? Cause every small business creator with an absolute piece of art under their belt seems to grow big with it, then the creators reach a point that they seem to be too busy indulging the profits of their creation so much they can effort to run their growing business so they start employing professionals to do that for them, including new CEOs, and they bring in their profit oriented pationless careless management and sink the entire ship before jumping to another one passing by...

[@MrDainemudda]

Why the hate? Paradox has a history of buggy launches, ignoring/ridiculing the fan base and abandoned games and VIC2 is very well a symptom of that.