VICTORY GAMES: The Definitive History

Victory Games made a big impact in its short history, and was more than just a subsidiary of Avalon Hill. In this video, I had the honor and pleasure to interview the former head of the company, Mark Herman, who also happens to be a pretty famous board game designer. I consider this to be episode 7.5 of my Avalon Hill History Series.
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#victorygames
Victory Games, a subsidiary company of The Avalon Hill Game Co, was created in 1982. The company was formed from a core of ex-SPI (Simulations Publications, Inc.) design employees. SPI (Simulations Publications, Inc.) had specialized in wargames that were more complex and more exacting simulations (such as War in the Pacific: The Campaign Against Imperial Japan, 1941-45, whose theme was revisited by VG as Pacific War: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945) than what The Avalon Hill Game Co had normally published.
From 1982-91, Victory Games released a critically acclaimed line of games (such as the Fleet Series), that appealed to so-called "grognards", that had a good deal of commercial success. However, the staff slowly departed over the years for other companies and were not replaced. This fact, in conjunction with the loss of many board gamers to the video and computer games coming into fashion at this time, as well as the popularity of card driven games, led to The Avalon Hill Game Co folding the company in 1989, although a few titles already well into the production cycle, appeared with the "Victory" logo after this date.

[@markherman50]

All I can says is, "Wow". I am pleasantly surprised, in a totally good way. I can see why it took so long to publish. Thanks for creating a history of VG I'm sure the former staff will enjoy it also.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you so much for saying so! I couldn't have done it without your help! Thank you so much for taking time for the interview!

[@UKCommandPost]

VG brought so much fun into our groups teenage years. Now 57, the fun continues, thank you!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Glad to hear the games are still getting some love!

[@ThymeKeeper]

Herman redoing Gulf Strike is major news. I hadn't heard that. And working with Vuca to boot!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Oh yeah! It should be great!

[@boardgameapprentice]

This documentary was awesome! Knowing nothing about Victory Games this was fascinating.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Awesome! Thanks for watching it! Now you'll have to try some of their games!

[@joequinones5246]

Thanks so much for posting. Fantastic interview. I still have my copy of Hell's Highway, Ambush and Korea bought back in the eighties.

[@NoEnemiesHere]

Best Mark Herman interview I’ve ever seen. KUDOS!!!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you so much!!

[@robertmoffitt1336]

Happy Anniversary Mark! Ambush!, I played about 4-5 missions from the base game myself, then a friend of mine joined and we played all the rest of Move Out, Purple Heart, Silver Star, Battle Hymn and Leatherneck as a cooperative game. Loved that series. We the People (which I still have today along with Washington's War) was an amazing game when it came out! We loved it and played the heck out of it. I've since heard that We the People was not well received when it came out, but we loved it. What a terrific walk down memory lane, great vid and an amazing interview with Mark Herman! Loving his current game Rebel Fury, looking forward to Army of the Potomac!

[@LegendaryTactics]

I would love to play the whole Ambush Series. I have played only through the base game

[@robertmoffitt1336]

​​​​@@LegendaryTactics Interestingly enough, we played probably 70% of the missions twice, and many of them three times! There was a D-Day parachute mission we played 4 times! All but the first few games I played of it were played two player cooperatively! So I was playing co-op war games before that was a thing! We got really attached to our characters, and it was just great fun. Great interview, great vid! Brought back a lot of great memories!👍 I still have Across 5 April's and Tokyo Express!

[@simonweinberger7720]

Great video, I love listening to Mark speak, there's still a real passion there

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, and a depth of knowledge as well! I was truly honored to meet and interview him

[@Skyrider68]

A very well done video. I watched it start to finish, and enjoyed learning more about this company and its impact on the hobby. Decades later it is still mentioned favorably, and I better understand why. Nice job LT !

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you so much for your kind words! And for watching!

[@rogerparkhurst5796]

My favorites are the ‘Fleet….’ Series and their reflection on USSR + situations around the globe. The maps were great! I have Hell’s Highway and attempted to play it solitaire, but did not enjoy it. But, based on this interview it looks like I need to expand my VG library!! Thanks for the interview…I grew up with his entire history of wargaming, starting while stationed in Korea in 1975/‘76 and a friend whom I visited in NYC in 1974 and introduced me to SPI! No regrets!! Just nostalgia!!

[@LegendaryTactics]

That's awesome! And yes, you should try and get some of their other games to the table. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@Davidimparato]

Great video! Thank you very much for doing this! Victory was my favorite game company back in the day, and I always love hearing Mark talk about gaming history.

[@LegendaryTactics]

He has a lot of stories and experiences to share! Thanks for watching and for the kind words

[@GrumblingGrognard]

Great video series on the history of these old, now gone companies. MANY THANKS!

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching them!

[@iamkifo]

Thank you for this amazing retrospective!

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome! And thanks for watching and commenting!

[@steveg3981]

Many thanks for this. Brought back many memories. Great interview!!!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@GinaInCA]

Panzer Command was the inspiration for MMP’s Grand Tactical Series, which continues to this day.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Interesting! I didn't know that!

[@GinaInCA]

@@LegendaryTactics Yes, designer Adam Starkweather wrote that in his designer's notes to The Devil's Cauldron. And, speaking of designer's notes, I think that was another noteworthy feature of the Victory Games titles -- not only were their rulebooks very clean and well laid out, but their designer's notes were usually extensive and fascinating to read. Some even today I would consider models of what good designer's notes should be like.

[@gonzoid1968]

Awesome! Along with your Avalon Hill history videos, this is a wonderful gift to the wargaming hobby. Thanks for your excellent work!

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching it! I consider this one to be Avalon Hill episode 7.5, as Victory Games was technically part of the Avalon Hill company

[@ThymeKeeper]

16,000 copies of a game now would be considered a massive hit. Perspective.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, they were different times

[@jbthor03]

Fascinating video. Thanks for all of your work putting this together

[@LegendaryTactics]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@davidthompson7233]

What an absolutely amazing, and I think important, video. Thank you so, so much for this!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you for your kind words, and for watching!

[@rexomatic8667]

I still have so many VIctory games purchased in the the 1980s including Ambush, extensive James Bond collection, Open Fire, Mosby’s Raiders, JB Assault, Civil War. I enjoyed the video. Makes me want to bring out some of those games to the table and check out GMT games.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Then my video has accomplished its mission. Get 'em to the table!

[@TheChillee]

Gulf Strike and Hell’s Highway were both fun, thought-provoking and innovative. I have HH to this day. Ambush, and 2nd Fleet were also played by me. My most-played VG product and one of my all-time favorites is James Bond 007bRPG. The game mechanics are outstanding… a modern day update would be awesome. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@wsclulin]

This was great, thanks for posting! (I'd love to sit with Mark Herman for an hour)

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, he's great! Thanks for watching!

[@KokoLeMakak]

Great video, great work. Keeping memory of wargaming history is an important job.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you! I'm doing my best!

[@campbellmj9405]

I've only VG's Battle Hymn which I purchased back in the 80's. Sadly, I still haven't finished the first scenario (some rules confusion, but I will work through it) and feel duty bound to play the remaining scenarios as well. Thanks for all the effort you (and team) put into these videos, and also thank you for the Avalon Hill history you have done in the past.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you so much for watching! As I said in the description of the video, I consider this video to be Avalon Hill episode 7.5, with episode 8, the conclusion, coming soon!

[@MarkConder]

This is awesome - so many fun memories of VG/Mark Herman games with Pacific War at the top of the (my) list! And Gulf Strike redux is great news too!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Awesome! Thanks for watching!

[@e-4airman124]

thank you so much

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching!!

[@stephanvalkyser3186]

I think I own more than half of the games discussed in this video.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Wow! That's awesome! And I hope they still make it to the table from time to time?

[@rogerparkhurst5796]

Couldn’t agree more with your wife’s and your decision how you raised your family!!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, family first!

[@aleks1939]

Wow, great video and interview! I still have 6th Fleet in my closet to this day. Had so much fun playing it solitaire back in the 80s. Unfortunately, period games like that which don't cover an actual historical conflict don't age too well.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Well, hopefully you can still enjoy it as a game, even if it doesn't line up with actual history

[@simply4est]

Great doc, some of the best games were Victory Games! Though it was never one of the more popular ones, Cold War was one of my favs - I liked how it pointed up that the Cold War was not only a two sided affair. Also it came out back when the popular fear was a rising Japan, not China, so I thought this game was kind of prescient in that.

[@LegendaryTactics]

That's cool, I will have to give that one a go

[@ricardosousa7150]

Ambush still is my favorite solitaire game. Played all... even Dual Shock.

[@LegendaryTactics]

It is a classic!

[@robertmoffitt1336]

@@ricardosousa7150 I played all of the Ambush/Battle Hymn cooperatively with a friend, but we bounced hard off of Shell Shock. Life's demands got in the way of me playing Open Fire sadly. Had it, but never got it to the table unfortunately.

[@SGrey-fk3zf]

25:50 If the Germans had Leopard IIs at Stalingrad...

[@LegendaryTactics]

If only... ;)

[@j.4332]

Hells Highway is one of my favourite top 5 games.

[@teecee5449]

Great vid! As a new gamer I have no memories of VG. Amazing I watched the full vid and interesting to learn how many of the (current) games are reprints/remakes from 40 years back!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, and you should absolutely check them out! The remakes will be updated for today's aesthetics, but the spirit of the game is the same!

[@Demy1970]

I still have my Ambush

[@LegendaryTactics]

I think it's time to get it to the table again!

[@saltytbone]

I missed out on Victory Games as a snobbish kid who didn't like unmounted maps..

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, I have never been a fan of unmounted maps, but the games were so good!

[@aleks1939]

Man, I used to have a game called Warsaw Pact which had an unmounted map that I played all the time in the 80s. It was so much fun, at least to a teen like me. And the best part of it is that I bought it at a buy-out store for something like $3 new. I'll have to look it up on Boardgame Geek because I'm pretty sure it wasn't made by any major game company.

[@mikeleake9488]

I do own quite a few of these games! Including the new version of France 1944

[@LegendaryTactics]

Great! How is it?

[@mikeleake9488]

@@LegendaryTactics the mechanics are interesting - as mentioned the increment system is challenging to manage: you really have to think about what you need to achieve

[@kathykoenig6512]

Allow me to add another "Wow!" to this thread. On a channel that already does awesome game history videos, this one will be hard to top. Now, does NATO play NATO?

[@LegendaryTactics]

Hahaha, I haven't tried it yet! But I would love to! Thank you so much for your kind words and for watching! Is NATO your favourite VG game?

[@SGrey-fk3zf]

1:01:02 easily learned rules?

[@LegendaryTactics]

That is according to what was written on BoardGameGeek!

[@SGrey-fk3zf]

They all bought Apple Lisas? Really?

[@LegendaryTactics]

I'm guessing that's what Mark was referring to. We never confirmed the name of what they actually had, but it looks right!

[@markherman50]

What we bought was earlier than the Lisa, it was just the iconic apple with the monitor and computer in one unit.

[@SGrey-fk3zf]

@@markherman50 Well, dang i thought the Lisa story was kind of cool :)