Video 16: Using iTrain Tutorial Series - Preparing a Locomotive for iTrain (Part 1)

[@AmazeTase]

I didnt realise how powerful this software actually is Bob! The ability to amend speed profiles etc is totally awesome. I just need to get my layout finished now lol

[@bobfuller]

Me too, Tase. Too busy creating tutorials!!! LOL

[@geoffrouse9406]

Thanks bob now I understand more about loco profiling, it appears I have a lot of work ahead. Great video.

[@bobfuller]

Yep, you're going to know speed profiling inside out by the time you finish.

[@bryanlane62]

Many thanks Bob, I so could’ve done with this video about two weeks ago before I attempted to do the speed profiling in my first couple of locomotives ! Looking forward to the next one on the fine tuning.

[@bobfuller]

Better late than never, I guess. :)

[@bryanlane62]

Bob Fuller Absolutely :-)

[@mikeuk1954]

Sorry to sound thick! Was this test an actual loco moving between measured blocks and not just an iTrains screen. I assume speed profiling has to be done on actual track? Or am I missing something?

[@bobfuller]

Hi Mike. Yes, it needs to be performed with the actual loco on the physical track.

[@mikeuk1954]

@Bob Fuller thanks so much for replying. That clears that up. Just watched another video of yours actually showing the engine moving.

[@Hal-Zuzzu_Model_Railway]

Grest video. Very well explained :) I set CV 3 & 4 to 0 I found the max speed of 120kph at 189 on CV 5. Spot on. When measuring the minimum speed, it returns a value of 18.5kph with CV 2 set to 0. How can I set my minimum speed to between 3 and 4kph with CV 2 only going down to 18.5kph, please?

[@bobfuller]

Thank you. Would you mind placing this question on the iTrain forum? It is easier to provide better responses on the forum, and also others will be able to share their experiences and learn from the answers. Cheers Bob.

[@Hal-Zuzzu_Model_Railway]

@@bobfuller Will do Bob :)

[@kite7214]

Hi Guys. I just upgraded to Professional version and now watched your decoder programming tutorial which was great. I have Lenz and Zimo loco chips, both of whom have Railcom. Presumably, I need to enable Railcom on them? Not sure if they come with Railcom switched On or Off? Thanks a lot, Keith

[@bobfuller]

I'm not familiar with either the Lenz or Zimo decoders but, yes, Railcom needs to be enabled. Usually in CV28, but consult the User manual for that particular decoder. If you have any problems, PM Iain Morrison via the forum. He uses the Zimo decoders, if I remember correctly.

[@RudyCosijns]

Hi Bob. I guess that this is specific to DCC loks. In case of loks that have been read through the controller (Marklin CS3 or LODI Rektor), does this CV table creation still needs to be done? I would assume that the lok characteristics and CV values have been read through the controller, and would have been transferred to iTrain when interfaced?

[@bobfuller]

Good question Rudy. The objective is to be able to change some CV values within the loks decoder. How you do that will depend on the Command Station you are using and the type of decoder fitted in the lok. Step 1, (the creation of the CV table) only needs to be performed if you have the Pro version of iTrain and want to take advantage of iTrain's CV programming feature to allow you to conveniently alter a loks CV values from within iTrain. I'm not familiar with the CS3 or LODI so I'm not sure how CVs are changed if using those. Please ask on the forum if you need more info.

[@Julian-zc4ik]

Hi Bob - at approx the 4 minute mark you show a table which is titled ‘you can also experiment with these settings’ if you have sound enabled locos. I do have some sound enabled, so at what stage would you experiment with these CV’s please? Because I can see how important it is to set both CV’s to zero to then follow the rest of the steps as you outline subsequently for preparing locomotives for iTrain. Many thanks in advance for the advice, Julian

[@bobfuller]

Hi Julian, if you have a sound decoder you only need to change CV 3 and 4 to the other suggested values if the sound is out of sync with the trains motion. You may find that there are no sync issues with a value of 0 or 1. If you are new to iTrain, just leave the sound turned off, and get everything set up and working with a value of 0 or 1. Once you are confident with the procedure and you have been able to get a few trains stopping accurately, you can then experiment with other CV3/4 values, but only if you see/hear any sound sync problems.

[@Julian-zc4ik]

Thank you for taking the time to reply Bob, all understood and thank you. Julian

[@rogerstonham3631]

Another great video. Can you clarify about the track being used. I assume that iTrains must knows the distances between sensors.

[@damenfeld]

I use DR5088RC current sensing feedback decoders therefore there aren’t any discreet sensors to measure any distance between them. When a loco is within the section of track powered by the feedback it is constantly ‘sensed’

[@bobfuller]

The next but one tutorial will be about the three different methods of Speed Measurement. That will hopefully make things clearer.

[@rogerstonham3631]

@@bobfuller OK thanks I wait with eager anticipation!

[@MsShaun666]

Hi Bob, Many thanks for another great vid. Delighted to see all your and Ian’s efforts are being recommended on the iTrain forum. Is there anyway I could have a copy of Ian’s Zimo Default Set file? Cheers S

[@bobfuller]

Hi Shaun, Send Iain a PM on the forum and include your email address. I'm sure he will oblige.

[@MsShaun666]

@@bobfuller will do many thanks...

[@royendersby2980]

Hi Bob I have done some speed profiling and found that I cannot set Min and Max speed values on the Hornby R8249 chip as they are not present. How can this be done on chips like these?.

[@damenfeld]

Regrettably Hornby have chosen not to implement the NMRA standard CVs within their decoders this making it impossible to set these values. The effect of this is that you will be using a reduced number of speed steps for the locomotive control within iTrain. As an example, if the top speed is measured at 130mph yet the prototype top speed was only 80mph then the speed steps above 80mph will not be used. Similarly at the lower end their may be a range of speed steps that are effectively not used as the loco may not actually start moving until several steps have been issued.

[@royendersby2980]

@@damenfeld Thank you Iain. I suspected that was the reason.

[@andymacc]

Hello, 90% of my 20 trains are the more modern manufactured Hornby Sound or TTS sound fitted DCC steam locomotives. From what you’ve explained to Roy, am I going to struggle using iTrain, block detection and accurate running/stopping times when running trains under computer control, even if I do the speed tests correctly from driven wheels because of this. Don’t want to invest in this system on a Mac with Digikeijs DR5000 and the detecting units for the go between from computer to layout if so. Thank you

[@royendersby2980]

@@andymacc Hi Andy don't let that put you off. I have generally found that with the speed profiling and playing around with CV settings and the adjustments in iTrain you can pretty well get a train to stop in the right place, but every loco is different!.

[@meljones7238]

Hi Bob I'm back into watching your excellent tutorials again. I don't have a layout but have got involved with someone building a very large layout and have been nominated, amongst the group, to be the Itrains expert as I have confessed I have watched your tutorials in the past! I'm delighted but much learning to be done! I'm getting to grips with layout design and blocks but have a problem. Part of the layout consists of an over/under section. 2 incoming lines split into 6 of which 3 go down a level directly below the upper level but then come back out and rejoin. Have you any advice on how I reproduce this in Itrain? Many thanks Mel P.S. I am the guy from Adelaide but still haven't met your sister yet!

[@bobfuller]

Hi Mel Good to hear from you again. It's difficult to give proper advise without seeing the layout plan, but my initial suggestion is to terminate the 2 incoming lines with "Link" elements. Then, on a second tab, draw the other part of the layout, starting with two "Link" elements, then splitting into the 6 lines, etc, and terminate that section with more "Link" elements that connect back to the first tab where it rejoins with more "Link" elements. So, in summary, split the layout into different tabs, using "Link" elements to join the tabs. But the best advice I can give you is to post your question on the forum, with a drawing of your layout, and attaching your iTrain .tcdz layout file (even if it is only partially constructed). You will then get a much more thorough and constructive response, and ideas from people that are much more experienced at layout design than I am. p.s. my sister is still living in Adelaide (but now single...). She's a nurse at the hospital.

[@meljones7238]

My thanks to your response clearly disappeared into the ether! So many thanks. If you have a few moments there is a new Utube channel Magic Mike Trains. Mike has terminal cancer but this is his project, I'm loving being allowed to be involved. His passion is addictive. My job is Itrains control and hopefully watching the video you will see, as a complete newbie, how big my job is. One question, when I run diagnostics I'm informed that blocks/feedbacks don't have an address. What does this mean? What do I have to do? I'm just so excited I've managed to create blocks, sensors, feedbacks and when I go to the control panel and press a point, it changes. So much to understand and complete to allow Mike a "play" with what Itrains can do! With your help I can give it a "Bloody good Crack" as we say in Australia. Thank you Mel

[@bobfuller]

@@meljones7238 These tutorials should answer your question. What are the types of feedback sensors used on the layout (current sensing or infrared)? Tutorial 08: iTrain 5.0 - Blocks, Feedbacks and Groups kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJmuiYiJdsyYn5I Tutorial 09: iTrain 5.0 - Defining Feedbacks kzbin.info/www/bejne/r57VmYeYapukhaM Tutorial 10: iTrain 5.0 - Defining Blocks kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp_HhZapqcljgdk Send me a PM on the forum and include your email address. I will then reply by email and you can send your layout file to me so I can help.

[@SteffenUrban]

Great video!!! Question about the inertia simulation: My locomotive has a braking sound that will sound prototypical. Will the CV setting 3 and 4 and the inertia simulation settings affect the braking sound?

[@damenfeld]

The CV settings, especially for sound locos, can be a bit of a moveable feast as how far a loco travels before stopping with CV4 set to 3 with one type of decoder is generally very different to how far the same loco would travel when braking using a different decoder. Even between “identical” locos using the same decoder you will generally find that the CVs, acceleration, braking and reaction delay will be different due to the range of external factors influencing the model. What I provided the tuning that Bob describes as a very good primer for most locomotives however this must be read in conjunction with the decoder and sound project instructions as the manufacturers all have different interpretations of the values and how the work with their installations. I am sorry that I can’t provide a definitive answer that covers every decoder, sound project and locomotive but the permutations are simply too expansive and hence I have provided the mechanisms that you will need to adapt to your specific installations. I hope that this is useful Iain

[@777Teren]

Hello Bob, thanks for video and I have qustion about installing the Java please if itrain5 was installed without it these no problems for it work properly.

[@bobfuller]

Hello Oleg. Java must be installed. iTrain will not work without Java. The lastest iTrain 5.1 installation software includes the Java software. Run the installation program and it will automatically install iTrain and Java.

[@777Teren]

@bobfuller A lot of thank you, Bob.

[@bobfuller]

@@777Teren If you want to try iTrain before purchasing it, make sure you request a trial license. Click the "trial license" link on the Web page and fill out the form. You will then be sent a license key that will unlock the full features for 2 months, and will allow you to use the forum for support. Always use the forum for support rather than using comments in the videos. The forum gives far better support and is easier for us to help you.

[@MissedrBones]

Great video once again Bob and very well explained. Does CV6 (Speed curve modifier (Mid point)) play a part in any of this?

[@bobfuller]

No, CV6 is typically used for 3-point speed tables. In iTrain we aim to populate all the speed steps so that iTrain has better, smoother control of the train.

[@damenfeld]

The need to alter CV6 is dependent on whether the decoder that you are using automatically calculates a suitable value for CV6. You will have seen that I am using Zimo decoders which do not require you to alter CV6 if you leave it in default. Other decoder manufactures may require you to alter CV6, some will not even allow adjustment of CV6 and you should always refer to the manufacturer instructions for your specific Decoder on which settings will need to be adjusted to provide suitable running.

[@royendersby2980]

Hi Bob. I'm using a two feedback measuring system to set my speed profile. However when I set the loco off it doesn't stop and reverse at the end of the Block, it just carries on. I have tried it both ways and the feedbacks do clear after the loco has past.

[@bobfuller]

Hi Ron. Have you clicked "Change Direction" located just below the CLEAR button?

[@royendersby2980]

@@bobfuller Yes, Just double checked. It appears to be ticked as a default. I did get a reading on an earlier setup, but on the initial speed readings it over ran to the end of the layout and had to be physically restrained until the speed decreased!. So I changed the blocks that were being measured to avoid that, they are quite long 290 & 220 plus the add on section for a point 25cm. Could this be an issue?

[@bobfuller]

Does it happen with all your locos or just this one? Could you post your question on the forum and add your layout file (.tdcz file). I think we need to see the layout file to see what's happening.

[@royendersby2980]

@@bobfuller Tried a different loco, same result. I'll post on the forum. However, One thought, I have just realised the 2 feedback sections are on different DR4088's I wondered if that might be the issue.

[@royendersby2980]

No was the answer to that one.

[@bryanlane62]

Hi Bob, something has just occurred to me. As iTrain is taking over the speed curve of the locomotive, does bit 4 of CV 29 need to be on or off ? Or doesn’t it matter ?

[@bobfuller]

Hi Bryan, iTrain does not "take over" the speed curve. All iTrain does is effectively "record" the locos existing speed profile, so that it knows the speed associated with each speed step (i.e. if iTrain sends a speed step 10 command to the loco, it knows that should achieve the associated speed shown in the speed table). It's essentially just a reference table for iTrain. So, iTrain itself does not change or take control of the speed profile (except indirectly if you use the decoder programming feature to change CV values). The speed table that is set by CV29 bit 4 remains in place. iTrain doesn't care if you use the 3 point speed table or the custom speed table. iTrain does "take over" the inertia simulation, which is maybe what you are confusing it with.

[@bryanlane62]

Hi Bob, many thanks for the clarification.

[@toots.007]

Hi Bob Have you any experience profiling a Hornby decoder, it looks like you cannot set the top and bottom speeds. So I do not get a good bottom speed I have been setting a linear speed profile starting at 4mph and finishing at 90mph this works but I would like to create a curve profile. Any advice?

[@bobfuller]

I don't have any experience of the Hornby decoders but other iTrain users have. Search for "Hornby Decoder" on the iTrain forum and you will be able to read quite a few posts related to this subject. If that doesn't help, post a new topic or PM Iain (IainM). He has quite a bit of experience in answering this question.

[@jamestennant-eyles9870]

SOUND NO LONGER SYNCHRONISED. Hello Bob, I’ve taken your earlier advice and joined the forum but so far have not hear back from administration. Ive now completed all videos up 16 and have got one loco (new Bachman GWR tank), set up. Next is reaction delay. All has gone well except that whatever I set cv 3 and 4 to , (2 to 5 as per your video, or 33 and 44 as originally supplied), the sound on the loco is no longer synced. The chuff rate is far too slow. I have not yet discovered how to turn on sound when using itrain manually, so I can only test the sound by driving the loco using the DR5000. So two questions, how to get loco sound when driving locos manually in itrain, and how to get the chuff rate correct. Ive scanned your further video titles and searched Google and KZbin and have found nothing. Any advice very much appreciated.

[@bobfuller]

Hi James. Sorry to hear that you have not received a reply to your forum post. That is extremely unusual. I cannot find your forum post. What is your forum user name? Which section did you post your question in? What is the title of the post?

[@jamestennant-eyles9870]

Sorry Bob, I did not make myself clear. What I was saying is that my registration has not been approved yet, so I am not yet able to post. Hence my questions to you via KZbin. Best, James

[@bobfuller]

@@jamestennant-eyles9870 I am about to go on holiday for a few days, so I have asked Iain to respond to you. He will hopefully be in touch in a day or so.

[@damenfeld]

James, syncing sound on locos is notoriously difficult and can be very problematic. As we suggest in the video, the iTrain recommendations for CV3 and 4 do not replace the manufactures, or sound project composers settings when sound synchronisation is required, and you should use these in preference to iTrain settings. In this case, that would be values of 33 and 44. You may however find that getting a reaction delay setting that works will require a large value to be used, this cannot be avoided. There is not currently a global setting to switch all sounds off or on within iTrain, and you need to do this either using an action within iTrain for each loco or by using the function keys defined for each loco. This will be resolved by with the provision of a global sound on/off capability.

[@jamestennant-eyles9870]

@@damenfeld Hello Ian. Thanks for your reply. I have listened to video 16 again and I have not been able to find anywhere where it says to leave cv 3 and 4 at the manufacturers original values. I can only find a box that pops up on the screen at one stage suggesting trying vales 2 to 5 to sync sound. Anyway I’ve now put the cvs back to manufacturers original and sound is restored to be correctly synced. I’ve been trying instant routes and the problem is that with the higher cvs the deceleration is so gradual that the train does

[@kite7214]

Nine months on ....and watching it again. :-) Keith