Viewer Request - Babylon 5 White Star VS USS Defiant - Both Ways - Star Trek Starship Battles

[@timothypage252]

Given that the Minbari were starfaring for 2 at least millennium when they built this, not to mention the millions of years for the Vorlon, whose tech was folded into the design, how could they possibly lose, realistically? Also: WATCH BABYLON 5. Don't know about anyone else, but I'd be game for a watchthrough series of that.

[@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818]

And the Mimbari where also living in a rigid caste based society which is notoriously bad for being innovative and is well known for creating an extremely stagnant society. Plus the Federation's space faring history does not start with humanity. There are federation members that have also been in space for thousands of years, the Vulcans at 1500, and the Deltans at 4500. So this is a bad argument.

[@shep9231]

Yeah. the Minbari were out in space a lot longer then humans... Oh waa.. p[lease. tells me they are stagnant in terms of progression.

[@shep9231]

The Minbari take way too long to get anything done. Caste based societies tend to be rather long on order and short on brains.

[@alexslgato1735]

The issue is not that a whitestar could not defeat a Defiant - of course it could, but lore-wise they would not be so one-sided. The real Whitestar had a self-repairing, learning skin that acted like a hull polarizer but with some increased efficiency and learning capabilities - it did not block the shots, just dispersed them to something manageable, specially beam weaponry - an Earth Alliance Hyperion (from a race starfaring only for 200 years) and a Centauri Vorchan could still fire their regular pulse cannons and damage them significantly. The issue comes from the in-game default mechanics used on that outdated mod translated badly (basically the very old B5 mods for the game used energy shields for everything, including, for example, intercepting torpedoes on the EAS Omega, and for that, they made them stronger whan what they really are, since the Omega in-lore was decent at intercepting torpedoes, but could not block a beam of energy, and the issue with STBC shields is that they excel at the latter, so they had to buff the B5 beams to ridiculous levels to bypass those shields (for reference, that modded whitestar can one-shot the original EAS Omega mod on 0.5 seconds only firing the beam because of that beam buff, as if the Whitestar was a Shadow Battlecrab slicing the ship in half, when the Whitestar beam is not nearly as strong)), which makes the ship stronger than what it really is and makes the combat purely being "the whitestar wins unless extremely dumb" instead of "the whitestar with patience and a bit of Ivanova cunning can eventually deplete the defiant shields and eventually hurt the armour and destroy the defiant, but with two or three defiant quantums fired at the same time, even the whitestar at max will not survive". Plus, there are two things that that "age-makes-might" line of thought does not consider: different technology bases, what the Vorlons decided to give were merely toys, and a civlization stagnating and/or dark ages. Vorlon cruisers and jumpgates have energy shield technology, whitestars do not. On Babylon 5 every time a race has shields or forcefields it becomes a game changer - the Shadow Battlecrab death ray cold be blocked by a shield, the Vorlon thirdspace gate could resist a ton of incoming fire and never had their shield fail except for a very minuscule Sheridan-shaped hole on the other side, and the Shinindrea equivalent in role and size to an Starfury could go toe-to-toe with a Whitestar thanks to their forcefields. Also in the comics the Dilgar tried unsuccesfully to steal Abbai planetary shield technology because once active made them impossible to attack. And very few of the Younger Races have anything like an Energy Shield.

[@tarn1135]

Different universe different rules

[@pyrolight7568]

White Star, the AI was just being completely moronic.

[@shep9231]

The Defiant. Because armor AND Sheilding.

[@shep9231]

Defiant, the AI was being inept. ;)

[@stephendaurie9344]

The White star is one of my favorite ship designs. The white Stars were designed to be used in packs to take on larger and more powerful ships, wick was mentioned in an episode of Babylon 5 when they were first interduces However with their firepower and shielding, they can easily take on ships on their own. I would like to see you use them in a pack against larger ships

[@michaelcook7107]

I don't know, I think it kind of looks like a plucked chicken.

[@deepdivedylan]

1:56 Retro Badger: If we stay out of range... 2:04 Also Retro Badger: Our quantum torpedoes missed, which is not a good thing...

[@RetroBadgerGaming]

It was a brilliant plan....until the torpedoes missed... I like stating the obvious 🤣

[@superzentredi]

I love both ST and B5 but I just can't see much from Babylon 5 matching Federation weaponry and shields. Federation shields have been shown to easily handle 100s of megatons of explosives thrown at them. Even the old Connie was damaged but survived a thermonuclear blast at close range without shields. The Black Star (Minbari Cruiser, much superior to a White Star) however fell to a thermonuclear device in similar proximity.

[@mayhemuk76]

Great fight, I would love to see the Whitestar Vs the Courageous Class.

[@stevelapierre4776]

😨Crikey... Admiral.. love, love that ship wow.. had to take a screen shot.. oufff. lol😨I too had no idea what happen. usually the A.I. is on kill mode..lol but it hardly attacked. hmm still well done Admiral.. and funny showed, the Babylon ship shields came on full and then kaboomed.. that is strange.. Yes you must have hit something but no subsystems.. still great battle Admiral.. !!😊🖖

[@erichidalgo8153]

In the Star Trek vs Babylon 5 parody remake (Star Wreck: The Pirkinning) the Whitestars got wiped out by the Defiants.

[@xheralt]

Because the author wanted it that way, not based on any objective standards or mechanics.

[@erichidalgo8153]

@@xheralt So are warp ten salamanders and the Ent-D birthing Verdiform city.

[@aquariandawn4750]

Even though that was a great freaking movie, the white stars built with vorlon technology, you might as well be a godship.

[@alexslgato1735]

@@xheraltthe author there nerfed the Pirk Fleet vessels, left them without shields, and still won.

[@Thy_Boss]

@@xheralt Yes, but what you haven't grasped is that this would be true by definition. Star Trek and Babylon 5 present two different fictional worlds with rules that form no coherent point of comparison between the two. They are both technology-as-magic, soft science fiction, focused on narrative and not hard science; to try to meet the two on points where there is no matching scale or heuristic means authorial decision-making is ultimate.

[@hughtonne1775]

did ya'll forget the Sensor Jamming the Minbar used? It placed heck with anyone trying to get a bead on there ships and made them nearly untouchable because weapons would always fire wide instead of dead on. It was a contributing factor to why they were feared as The military power of setting, seconded only to Vorlon space magic and Shadows horror inducing cyborg nonsense

[@al-eemahmed847]

my request was fulfilled!!! omdz thank you

[@50Golf123]

I’m trying to figure out why people think that Babylon 5 ships are more powerful than Star Trek… They’re two different universes which I understand but Trek’s tech is off the charts compared to B5. To make the game fun I also get making the ships equal to or a little more powerful. Granted both use particle weapons, but the energy output is not the same. Also B5 doesn’t have shields. Trek universe weapons would punch through their ships. I love the White Star though. And the Narn Cruisers. Awesome designs.

[@KallenSC]

Nope B5 just took other way, they weaponry is way more powerful and ships having huge and thick armors

[@scottperry7311]

Babylon 5 designs have very powerful weapons and no shielding. They rely on heavy armor or organic armor to tank hits. If you look at the technical analysis of what the Babylon 5 weapons do its very remarkable, they cut through 10 meters of super armor like its nothing. I do not think its pratical to compare the two universes, since they are so fundamentally different.

[@stuchatterton6550]

White stars were in part based on Vorlon technology, millions of years old. In addition, they could take their hyperspace engines offline and divert all of that power through the weapons systems. Add to that the Minbari jamming tech that meant that obtaining a weapons lock was impossible... I'd have to give it to the space chicken.

[@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818]

jamming is not foolproof and can be beaten, and star trek ships have demonstrated the ability to overcome it. The only reason Mimbari jamming was so effective against Earth alliance was because of the tech disparity.

[@stuchatterton6550]

@@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818If you can merge technologies from the Vorlons, do you not think their jamming capabilities could not also be improved and that tech gap be maintained? You have a point. Up to a point....

[@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818]

@@stuchatterton6550 Except there is one little problem, as a friend of mine just pointed out, the whitestars dont have the Jamming tech in it. And here is the thing, the Vorlons are extremely ridiculously stagnant in their technology. They may have been in space for millions of years, but they dont have millions of years of actual tech development to back it up because of just how stagant they are. Not to mention, because sci fi writers tend to abuse jamming and use it as a plot device to force close range napoleonic style combat, few of them actually have any idea how jamming and ECM works. and more specifically that Jamming only works against active sensor system. Jamming is flat out useless against passive sensors and any guided projectiles that have the ability to home in on radiation sources. In fact trying to jam a radiation homing missile is only going to make your ship a more attractive target, that's the principles in how HARM missiles work. The federation has demonstrated that its photon torpedoes have a home in on radiation capability way back in the 23rd century, guaranteed that 24th century photons and quantums are more advanced in that department. Jamming also only works against the sensors its designed to beat. A radar jammer is only going to work on radars and will be completely useless against an infrared sensor, no matter how advanced the radar jammer is. The radar jammer could literally be a million years more advanced than the infrared laser sensor, but if the radar jammer doesn't operate in infrared frequencies, it will do absolutely nothing to the infrared laser sensor. Federation sensors are extremely multi spectral, operating in ranges from low frequency radio waves all the way into the gamma ray spectrum, and also operating using several exotic particles such as subspace sensors that babylon 5 factions have literally never seen before. Thus their jammers will not work on subpace based sensors at all because its not designed to operate in. Plus there is power differences. The white star still use fusion reactors, Starfleet uses matter antimatter reactors, which is a lot more powerful than nuclear fusion.

[@stuchatterton6550]

@@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818 Remarkable assumptions there. No jamming tech? Vorlons and by extension the Shadows stagnant? Despite their rivalry over all that time? And of course lets not forget humans were involved in the design and manufacture of the Whitestars. Lets take all the best bits of all this amazing technology, but don't worry about upgrading any EWAR capability! In fact. we don't need it!! Lets leave it out altogether!!! Fusion engines? Heh. I don't think so. A few more things for you to think about - adaptive and self healing armor, the kind of agility required to engage fighter craft, and combat telepaths. Thank you for playing. Please try again.

[@kendrakirai]

Even with jamming tech, most of the Defiants weapons are forward fire and don't need any sort of lock, just fire when and where visual motion prediction says you should. You can *eyeball* that. Really, the fact outdated earthforce ships can deal any sort of damage to a White Star means the Defiant would tear it apart.

[@TrentonBennett]

I think you might have knocked out their sensors early on. That's why they pretty much stopped firing at you. It was definitely an interesting match and I think keeping at a distance from the White Star did help you out a lot.

[@philipholliday4682]

Yes but the whitestar can repair it self

[@alexslgato1735]

Yeah, that whitestar is overpowered, specially since the whitestar does not have shields. There's a more balanced and complete one in a super babylon 5 mod.

[@xheralt]

What it does have is an semi-organic hulll that regenerates. So, in _game mechanic_ terms it is very much like shields can can be knocked down little by little, and then partially rebuilt. It had to be built using Star Trek tech rules to appear in this game, recall.

[@shep9231]

@@xheralt The Defiant has armor plate. Plus the Defiant has teliporters.

[@alexslgato1735]

@@xheraltI get it, that's why I did not say it was absurd - however, what is true is that that old whitestar mod is from an older STBC mod where no new game techs were built to supply that so they used purely ST tech, including warp drive, while KM has techs to help with that, such as ablative armour, hull polarizer, point defence, jumpspace drive, etc.

[@alexslgato1735]

@tfunnily enough the Whitestar ability is actually quite mirrorable by using the STBC shields and stock features, but the issue comes from the fact that pretty much other things other Babylon 5 ships did, like intercepting torpedoes was not, but in very old STBC mods it was done only with shields... that meant that their base, their Omega-class mod, had 15 thousand shields for each side because "An Omega could surely intercept a few photon torpedoes (stock ones deal 600 damage)", however, one thing where those Babylon 5 ships could not do, was to intercept beams like they had a shield, so the attempt at balancing the B5 ship mods between each other for those old installs was to buff their beams, hulls, and non-torpedo weapons like 10 times more than what they should do, so according to that logic, an EAS Omega-class Beam should have enough power to take those shields down in an instant, so like 1k-5k each beam power at least (for reference, an Stock Akira-class starship has 9k shields and 250 damage phasers, and a Sovereign-class has 15k shields). Also at the time other ships with similar issues were being released, like the Andromeda from Gene Rodenberry's Andromeda, which for some reason released with 50k shields each side, or a random TIE Fighter with 1k power blasters, so those ships were also used for comparision for non-Trek battles.

[@Poleet1971]

Magnetic Discharge Beams Vorlon defense system

[@sea77]

HOOORAY! Thank you so much!

[@leeroberts1192]

The Defiant would just beam a quantum torpedo aboard the White Star, probably be the White Star's main reactor

[@Anarchist86ed]

White Star's did not have shields, and could be taken out by Earth force weapons, which were allegedly inferior. It was fast and maneuverable but against a defiant? No. White Star was another ship that had to aim its weapons at a target, Defiant could still fire on it without pointing its cannons at it. And without shields, their quantums would rip through it. The Minbari didn't even really create the White Star, they needed the Vorlon to help. And they would have lost the first shadow war without Human technology.

[@nel1962]

That really is true. White Stars have been destroyed or mission crippled by Omega Destroyers which would not match up against any 24th century Federation ship. Much as I love B5, the problem is that they’ve never really tried to quantify the tech or power scaling of their universe. If a Minbari Sharlin is vulnerable to 3 megaton nukes then it would be absolute fodder for any Federation ship. Are we to believe that a White Star is magnitudes more powerful than a Sharlin?

[@Anarchist86ed]

@@nel1962 Their only advantage was their weapons, and I believe their stealth tech was eventually circumvented. A Sharlin is tactically inferior even to an NX class which would have been faster, more maneuverable and also had phase cannons that could fire from multiple directions. The Sharlin had its forward pointing weapons. Even an NX, flying behind it or off to its side... with some photonic torpedoes... it's over. They couldn't even defeat 22nd century starfleet ships. And even if their weapons failed, they still had transporters that could beam a weapon onto a Sharlin and destroy it from the inside. The Minbari had no such technology, or shields to prevent beaming.

[@hunter7]

White Stars were most effective hunting in packs so really we should see 3 White Stars vs a GRAND NAGUS!!! As some background info on the White Stars, they didn't have shields in the same way that they do in Star Trek, but their hull could "learn" to absorb types of attacks over time. Their strengths were mainly their maneuverability, speed, and damage output relative to their size, but they mostly attacked in groups of 10-12 and could take down much, much larger targets normally reserved for capital ships. So really the most apt battle would be about 10 White Stars vs 2 Borg Cubes.

[@LAWLESSKING]

Whoa the new weapons animations and sound effects on that Defiant mod are fantastic def gotta grab that one

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

Stand-Off Distance against ships using pulse weapons is always indicated. Fine battle.

[@davidprinzing8059]

It's hard to know. B5's scifi leans far heavier on the fantasy than the science, so as far as power scaling goes so it's difficult to gauge if it's accurate compared to other franchises that work harder at rooting power structures and scaling to science. This whole fight seemed a lot more similar to a DnD session where the White Star had three low D rolls in a row in the 2nd fight.

[@Sagchannel77]

Great video, like to see a omega class destroyer vs. a galaxy class.

[@getothechoppa114]

Omg smiley....im back! Dude ive missed this channel so much. Had no phone to watch 😕 But on the bright side my son just watched ds9....never thought he'd ever watch any star trek. He loved ds9, his favorite character is Garak..good choice really. And my first video back is the defiant...absolutely lovely🖖🖖🖖

[@RetroBadgerGaming]

Welcome back buddy! That’s awesome! DS9 is a good one to start with, plenty of laughs! Garak is the best Spy… ahem Tailor in the Alpha Quadrant. Of course, it also features one of the best ships in the franchise 😎

[@lordradam5409]

White Star has a "biological" ablative armor, that should take some hits, but no shielding. ALSO: watch B5, it´s a great series!

[@KallenSC]

Yes but B5 ships have much powerful long range weapons too, which most crazy st fans forget, they use heavy particles beams, that would even push back most little st ships, causing heavy hull damage.

[@MisterMarin]

Request: White Star vs Goa'uld Pyramid ship. 🙂

[@shep9231]

Giving this one to the Goa'uld ship.

[@getreal6124]

We have to remember the white star, with the exception of its main concentrated Lance beam. Is a laser-based only ship; this means its tech is approx 300 years behind the Defiant, as that would normally be 400 years if laser pulse shots only. The only thing the White Star should be able to do is run circles around the Defiant and be near impossible to hit except with standard phasers. ALSO, WS is only able to have a devastating beam weapon IF they come to a full stop, divert all power from their jump drive, and channel everything into it. It is roughly equivalent to using a deflector as a beam weapon against the Borg.

[@aquariandawn4750]

Whitestar is built with Vorlon technology, a race that's virtually an Ancient race.

[@alexslgato1735]

​@@aquariandawn4750 what the Vorlons decided to give were merely toys, and a civlization stagnating and/or dark ages has been knwn to affect many Ancient Races eventually. Vorlon cruisers and jumpgates have energy shield technology, whitestars do not. On Babylon 5 every time a race has shields or forcefields it becomes a game changer - the Shadow Battlecrab death ray cold be blocked by a shield, the Vorlon thirdspace gate could resist a ton of incoming fire and never had their shield fail except for a very minuscule Sheridan-shaped hole on the other side, and the Shinindrea equivalent in role and size to an Starfury could go toe-to-toe with a Whitestar thanks to their forcefields. Also in the comics the Dilgar tried unsuccesfully to steal Abbai planetary shield technology because once active made them impossible to attack. And very few of the Younger Races have anything like an Energy Shield.

[@aquariandawn4750]

@@alexslgato1735 where did I say shield technology Alex? I'm not going to treat you like an adult because you don't know how to stop misquoting people. I have no more attention for you little boy

[@KallenSC]

😂😂laser???😂😂😂 Dude that false spreding by st fans......NO! B5 weapons are based on heavy ion particles tech, and pulse tech, which both are known in st Universe, and first one is Deadly for most st tech shielding

[@Lookbutalsosee360]

The white star is a living vessel if I am remembering it correctly the ( memb- Arie) if I remember are the ones who finally sided with us against the shadows! So it’s a mix of living being and organically grown hardware..

[@alternativefashiongothicga7]

Lyta is on board the defiant

[@noahbody9875]

Quark let her leave the Dabo tables unattended?

[@StGeorge1243]

Wow this was recommend by me, thank you. As for the fight, if the AI on the white star was any good the fight would of been over just as quick as when you was flying the white star. White stars like to do staffing runs and use there superior speed to get out of harms way

[@draconiangaming4856]

Cant remember if i asked for this or not but loved watching it, its such a hard call to make both are designed to be small manoeuvrable over powered ships, both have alot of fire power, if ur goin by lore then the whitestar would have won due to the vorlon adaptive hull which can alter your take lots of damage and then dish it back out Would be interesting to see a minbary fighter vs a fed fighter

[@RetroBadgerGaming]

Thanks for the info! I've added your idea to the list :-)

[@birdmonster4586]

It's good to see the Whitestar getting it's due. It was a seriously powerful ship and I think people tend to default to "star trek has shields, so it should win" But anyone who's seen B5 would know how powerful Whitestars are. I think the Whitestar only lost in the second round because the AI was bad. As for B5 and Ds9. Those folks out there that have watched both and know the background know that DS9 pretty clearly pulled a lot of stuff from B5's original series bible that the creator submitted to Paramount ~1989 for consideration. Paramount rejected the idea, so the creator went to another studio. But low and behold, both shows went into production and came out around the same time and both shows have a shocking amount of similarities. Now, Both shows are great, and both were only made possible by very talented people working very hard. But I think it is about time people acknowledge that there was some funny business going on. Here are just SOME of the similarities between the show: *Both take place on a space station. *Both commanding officers start out as commanders, not captains. Later they are "replaced" in some way by a captain *Both stations are located next to a wormhole-like structure: Babylon 5’s jump-gate vs. DS9’s wormhole. *Both “wormholes” are artificially constructed. *Both shows have a main protagonist who is a religious figure of sorts. B5’s Commander Sinclair is Valen, a figure of great reverence within Minbari society. DS9’s Commander Sisko is the Emissary to the Prophets and is revered by the Bajorans. *Both shows feature a human as a religious icon for an alien race. *Both show’s main protagonist is turned into a messianic figure; both disappear at the end of their respective series. *Both series take place just after a devastating conflict for the human race. In the B5 universe, the Earth-Minbari War has devastated humanity. In the DS9 universe, the Borg have attacked Starfleet defenses. *Both show’s main protagonist took part in that devastating conflict. *In DS9, a major war erupts between the Dominion and the Alpha Quadrant - many races join together to stop them; in B5, a major war erupts between the Shadows and the younger alien races - many alien races join together to stop them. Both Space Stations become strategically important during a major war. Both shows have a willful female as second officer. B5 has Susan Ivanova, a feisty Russian, and DS9 has Kira, an aggressive Bajoran. Both shows have their willful first officer make peace with their father; the death of each character’s father features prominently in the show. Both Narn and Bajor were peaceful agrarian races before being enslaved by their respective antagonists. Both DS9’s Cardassia and B5’s Centauri were expelled from those worlds via terrorist movements. Both DS9’s Cardassia and B5’s Centauri later return to those worlds. The Centauri conquer Narn; the Cardassians retake DS9 and express a desire to continue “on to Bajor.” Both shows have an ambitious character who longs for the days when his people were strong and respected; these characters both align themselves with the central antagonist in order to return their people to glory (DS9’s Dukat and B5’s Mollari). Neither of these characters has much influence left in the beginning of their show; they are elevated by their association with the central antagonist. DS9 gets the Defiant; B5 gets the White Star. Both ships are small, agile, and sport a new type of armor.

[@alexslgato1735]

Ok, first with the part we agree on, it is known that DS9 and B5 aired nearly at the same time and that Strazynski sent Paramount his B5 draft BEFORE DS9 began. Even Strazynski throught that DS9 development crew knew nothing about following that pre-B5 draft, but someone on the higher spheres of Paramount suggested part of those ideas to the DS9 cast. Now with the part we disagree on: It is not that we tend to default to "ST has shields, it should win", it is that: * "B5 has few shields, but when shields appear (Vorlon dreadnought vs Shadow Battlecrab, Thirdspace Fighter vs Starfuries, Thirdspace Fighter Point-range vs Whitestar, entire Babylon 5 contingent plus a decent part of the Anla'shock and Minbari fleet vs Vorlon Jumpgate, Dilgar Fleet vs Abbai planetary shielding), the other side is usually screwed or will get a phyrric victory because they need a ridiculous amount of firepower to punch through those shields or energy forcefields", "Many ST factions have shields". This could mean anything, even that B5 shields and weapons are more powerful to compensate, but it then gets countered by the following: * "B5 ships usually get one-shot by a nuclear megaton blast point-range even with defences on" while "ST ships rarely get one-shot by nuclear megaton blasts and even consider them low-level tech". EDIT: Federation shields can also resist gigaton-level mines. * Additionally, "among ST shields, some are powerful/advanced enough to literally dive inside a sun (albeit the Federation only began using multiphasic and metaphasic shields later on the 24th century)". so then we conclude that "Many Star trek factions have enough edge defensively and offensively that, barring outright First-One ships, a 1 vs 1 would usually end on the ST civilization victory". Now, that doesn't mean a whitestar cannot take down the Defiant shields and destroy the ship, just that it would take its sweet time to do so, enough time for the Defiant to destroy the Whitestar if the Whitestar does not act smart (after all, we see on the Battle against the Clark forces that a Whitestar can still be hurt - if slightly - by a single Starfury fire).

[@MAZE4]

The Defiant is a powerful ship, and ordinarily I'd give it the win, but the white star has Minbri tech, so it's probably the winner.

[@shep9231]

But the Minbari tech was not fully defined. Nor was it fully explained.

[@alexslgato1735]

The only thing the Minbari tech would give the Whitestar is the ability to instantly spot a cloaked Defiant because most younger Races sensors and communications are Tachyon-based. The Minbari stealth system is based around Tachyon tech, which Federation ships do not use for target locking, or can switch to other sensors. The edge here would be what the Minbari applied about Vorlon technology, but the technology applied wo the Whitestar is the one seen on Vorlon Fighters and small destroyers, which excludes the Vorlon shields and powerful weapons, so the battle would still go in favour of the Defiant, albeit not an insta-win and the Whitestar could still take down the Defiant easily with a bit of cunning.

[@EdricLysharae]

*Looks at video length* "Yep, Babylon 5's ships are operating on a whole other power regimen."

[@RoadHead62]

That White Star beam weapon is Vorlon-Minbari hybrid technology, and VERY powerful, almost to the point that it would almost need to be nerfed, or it could potentially one shot a Death Star. They were ships built specifically to go after larger, much more advanced ships. It's easily on par with the Asgard beam weapons that the Daedalus battlecruiser class Tau'ri ships all carry, the one that one shots the Ori motherships.

[@FluppyBagoo4016]

Don't know if anyone.. remembers B5 Minbari ships have stealth mode which makes lock on almost impossible

[@alexslgato1735]

We remember, but it is known the stealth mode made the lock almost impossible on primitive sensors, more advanced sensors had that issue lessened or solved, remember the Centauri sensors were still good enough to lock on Whitestars and then a Vorchan firepower was still enough to destroy them; and the Earth Omegas produced after the Earth-Minbari War could finally lock on Minbari vessels even if sometimes they glitched.

[@pyronuke4768]

I think the computer just didn't want to engage that second round because it's tactics were downright awful. It kept showing you it's weakest shield and rarely shot at all.

[@xheralt]

This was probably accurate. The White Star's weakness, at least in the STO setting, is that it's weaponry is pure forward arc. No broadside, no chase weapons aft, which the Defiant was able to finesse via maneuver. Whitestar was also _maneuvering_ like a Star Trek starship, aka what Ad Astra Games's Squadron Strike calls "Mode 1", where your inertia magically follows the nose of your ship, and airplane-like wide sweeping turns are required to change direction. "Boldly going forward 'cause we can't find reverse!" That's a serious _limitation_ for White⭐. In its own realm (Mode 2) it could run away from you, then when you give chase, while "coasting" away from you at its full former speed, it could flip end over end in an eyeblink and serve you its full "forward" arc weaponry, then flip back to present less damaged shields/armor to you, and THEN re-engage its engines and or maneuver jets to run more or change direction. Or, while "facing" you, decelerate with the full power of its mains, possibly down to zero speed relative to the map, meaning it will be back in your face a LOT sooner than you were expecting, if it keeps its thrust on full!

[@alexslgato1735]

There's also the weakness that Whitestar has no shields, it's pure armour - an intelligent armour that repairs itself slowly and elarns a tiny bit in how to block purely-energy-based weapons, but still regular armour.

[@Nobody_important_at_all]

It's never explained in trek but I theorize the reason trek ships maneuver like planes is that they only achieve a high rate of sublight speed is the impulse engines providing directional 'thrust' like a jet engine and the maneuvering thrusters of trek are not capable of moving the weight around of trek ships like you see in B5. In lore the defiant weighs 355,000 metric tons whereas from what I was able to find, the white star weighs in at 77,100 metric tons. I'd believe that rating too because the star had a semi organic hull and none of the other ships sans fighters and the drakh could maneuver like the white star in B5. Nearly every capital ship of B5 did wide arcs at speed as well btw.

[@kellyevans3254]

It looked to me like you had a head on collision with the defiant in the first matchup collapsing the forward shields. I don’t know anything about Babylon 5 so I can’t say anything about the power-scaling of the universes, but the mod looks to be a good match for the defiant.

[@23GreyFox]

The White Star can take some punishment for it's size, because of Vorlon technology (one of the ancient races). But the White Star has no shields and would not survive 1 minute against the Defiant. She would have problems to penetrate the shield, much less the Defiants armor.

[@paulharris7660]

Borg lasers went straight through enterprise d shields. So im guessing white stars laser cannon would do the same. B5 laser all cut through the opposition, plasma for 2nd weapons. Im guessing white star, on shear maneuverability would win.

[@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818]

One laser is not the same as another. The borg laser is so powerful because its backed up by a massive ship with tonnage that's twice than even an executor class super star Destroyer, and over four thousand times the size of a Galaxy class starship. Saying that the white stars laser cannon has the same firepower as a borg laser is absurd as saying a .22 caliber long rifle cartridge is the same power as a 16 inch naval gun because both are gunpowder propelled projectiles. And maneuverability is no where near as important as so many sci fi writers make it out to be.

[@alanbaker2347]

The White Star is a cool looking ship

[@nortzman01]

A missing and possibly critical element is the Whitestar ability to maneuver. If you recall in show, that ship pulled 180 degree turn in about a second. Defiant just doesn't have that ability. Defiant would need to offset with its cloak. The question then become, who's tech is superior...Romulan cloaks or Mimbari scramblers? Even in real-world combat, ECM and ECCM are the biggest factor in air battles today. Even being able to detect someone doesn't mean you can effectively target the,

[@johntate5284]

When you fought as the White Star, you fought as those ships were used in the series which is close quarters. The beam weapons definitely have an effective range. When you fought as the Defiant, you were obviously attacking at a range beyond the effective range that the White Star could respond to. The Shadows could have used your skills:)

[@FreeThePorgs]

2 ships, similar design and role in there fleets. A small and fast heavy attack ship, can’t handle a direct slug match against a heavy warship/battleship but otherwise powerful for its size.

[@SkywalkerFilms1927]

I was not expecting to see the White Star move so quickly, nor be that small. Given the White Star's shape, could it take on a Romulan D'deridex?

[@williamshafer9110]

It supposedly as big as the connie

[@RedVexHK]

Gotta remember.. the White Star uses Bio Armour... it has no shields...

[@oliverrichardson7856]

More Babylon 5 please. Babylon 5 ships vs Babylon 5 ships. Love earth force omega destroyers 😊

[@alexslgato1735]

On a completely unrelated topic, my 1.0.9 babylon 5 super-pack mod has been released, now there are working turrets in-game.

[@RetroBadgerGaming]

Thanks :-) I was using an older install it would seem 🖖

[@tigdamch.6321]

Yeah seems like so many Babylon 5 packs just have their ships way too strong xD Fun to watch non the less.

[@senatus]

Agreed. A Minbari Warcruiser, the strongest Young Race ship, was completely blown away by a pair of 2 megaton mines. Said mines detonated many hundreds of meters or more away from the Warcruiser and were *still* lethal. Photon torpedoes would obliterate the much smaller White Star.

[@alexslgato1735]

Mine is not, it is closer to reality (the one on this video is not my pack).

[@17wolf359]

Being a fan of both genre's, I have to say the Defiant would make quick work of the Whitestar. Yes it has Vorlon & Minbari tech, but if you a recall, a nuke that wasn't even a direct hit took out a much larger Sharlin Warcruiser and photon torpedo, but especially quantum torpedoes are way more powerful than nukes. Whitestar's don't have shields and were easily damaged by beam weapons in B5.

[@s.patrickmarino7289]

If you are going to cross pantheons, I think the Minbari ships would wipe the floors with a single Starfleet ship. The Minbari were an elder race that was traveling the stars before humans learned to walk. They were always ethical and quite nice until something triggered them. Then, they went a bit bonkos and fought to the extermination of the other race. The only war they lost was against humans. Just before they destroyed the last of humanity, they captured a human to examine. Then after looking at us, their religious cast surrendered and helped humanity rebuild. The only two races in the B5 universe that were nastier in a fight were the Vorlons and the Shadow. Those were two of the very first races to achieve sapience and travel space. The White Star ships were a combination of Minbari and Vorlon technology. I think they were the only ships that managed to damage or destroy a shadow ship. Thank you very much for that episode.

[@senatus]

Narn cruisers disabled a Shadow ship by severing a few of its "spines." Just because a race has traversed the stars for thousands or even millions of years doesn't mean that race is X times more advanced...time in and of itself /= progress.

[@sharonec5419]

Any chance you coukd do a Narn cruiser verse some Cardassians. That I would love to see.

[@garypalmer997]

1. do more babylon 5 vs startrek ship 2. I always thought startrek would be stronger just cause they have sheild and the majority of bab ships don't have them.

[@alexslgato1735]

The Whitestar mod used there is overpowered.

[@dannolives]

Walk with me retrobadger Walk with me in the dreaming

[@josephmanno4514]

Loved both series. The Defiant would CRUSH the White Star.

[@generalmehk]

I'm beginning to think you should put a link to the ship mods you're using in your video descriptions because I would like to know which defiant mod that is

[@RetroBadgerGaming]

I would love too. However, KZbin won't allow me to post links anymore. All of them are available on Gamefront.

[@conjie1986]

got me wondering if there is an excaliber mod (new destroyer class for the interstellar alliance)

[@doudyk7692]

Hello, I must say it was truly a nice match, but even if Defiant is 1 of my favorite ships in St. Univers The Whitestar would win cuz of the combined tech of Mimbari and Vorlons and the power she commands -- The Ai was piloting, and fighting like noob -- Look at that from The B5 point of view The Vorlons are ones of the few oldest races in the franchise much older then The federation itself -- Theyr ships are alive something like race 4872 but the ship can fly itself and some of the tech is combined within the Whitestar. I think that the Defiant will have more chance in hit-and-run or attack using cloak tactics, not being hit.

[@alexslgato1735]

The issue is not that a whitestar could not defeat a Defiant - of course it could, but lore-wise they would not be so one-sided. The real Whitestar had a self-repairing, learning skin that acted like a hull polarizer but with some increased efficiency and learning capabilities - it did not block the shots, just dispersed them to something manageable, specially beam weaponry - an Earth Alliance Hyperion (from a race starfaring only for 200 years) and a Centauri Vorchan could still fire their regular pulse cannons and damage them significantly. The issue comes from the in-game default mechanics used on that outdated mod translated badly (basically the very old B5 mods for the game used energy shields for everything, including, for example, intercepting torpedoes on the EAS Omega, and for that, they made them stronger whan what they really are, since the Omega in-lore was decent at intercepting torpedoes, but could not block a beam of energy, and the issue with STBC shields is that they excel at the latter, so they had to buff the B5 beams to ridiculous levels to bypass those shields (for reference, that modded whitestar can one-shot the original EAS Omega mod on 0.5 seconds only firing the beam because of that beam buff, as if the Whitestar was a Shadow Battlecrab slicing the ship in half, when the Whitestar beam is not nearly as strong)), which makes the ship stronger than what it really is and makes the combat purely being "the whitestar wins unless extremely dumb" instead of "the whitestar with patience and a bit of Ivanova cunning can eventually deplete the defiant shields and eventually hurt the armour and destroy the defiant, but with two or three defiant quantums fired at the same time, even the whitestar at max will not survive". Plus, there are two things that that "age-makes-might" line of thought does not consider: different technology bases, what the Vorlons decided to give were merely toys, and a civlization stagnating and/or dark ages. Vorlon cruisers and jumpgates have energy shield technology, whitestars do not. On Babylon 5 every time a race has shields or forcefields it becomes a game changer - the Shadow Battlecrab death ray cold be blocked by a shield, the Vorlon thirdspace gate could resist a ton of incoming fire and never had their shield fail except for a very minuscule Sheridan-shaped hole on the other side, and the Shinindrea equivalent in role and size to an Starfury could go toe-to-toe with a Whitestar thanks to their forcefields. Also in the comics the Dilgar tried unsuccesfully to steal Abbai planetary shield technology because once active made them impossible to attack. And very few of the Younger Races have anything like an Energy Shield. Also do not forget, the Shadows are far older than the Vorlons, yet the Vorlons win, so that purely "age-makes-might" mentality is flawed.

[@doudyk7692]

@@alexslgato1735 Yeah, I totally agree, but you forgot one thing how can you hit something with the torpedo if you can't lock on it? The question is will it work against Defiant? It's nice to find someone other who knows some nice stuff from B5 and can write it down. Ty

[@alexslgato1735]

@@doudyk7692Minbari stealth systems worked against Tachyon sensors, and only primitive ones, which are those which many of the Younger Races had, more advanced tachyon sensors like Minbari's or the newer more modern DX-419 tracking sensors equipped on the Omegas could lock on a Minbari vessel. Federation sensors are multi-spectral and use a ton more things than tachyons (such as gravity detection, which was crucial for detecting cloaked vessels and spotting quantum microsingularities, with the latter being a tech both Romulans and Minbari use, and the Minbari never felt the need to cloak their quantum microsingularity gravity effects because most Younger Races sensors are not sensible enough to detect minuscule gravity eddies within a gravimetric field (with notable exceptions such as the Technomages, but you could say they are kinda cheating on this one because their techs and sensors are Shadow-based and are already accustomed to making tech look like magic and being and spotting subtlety), which is one of the reasons they stick to jumpspace beacons to guide them through jumpspace).

[@admiralcasperr]

Shields on a White Star? That's a first. It's also extremely sluggish compared to the show, usually it can turn 180 in about 1.6s. It should be flying circles around the Defiant. They Fusion cannons on her should also be able to intercept phaser cannons and torpedoes. While it wasn't shown in the show directly, the cannons should also be able to degrade beams too. In B5, a typical White Star tactic is to strafe a target at high speed, overshoot it, flip around and blast it from the other end while flying backwards.

[@JCinLapel]

I think that people under estimate the size of a white star because B5 ships are so big. I think a colser fight would be the Galaxy X because it also has a heavy beam main gun and the size is a little closer but I think the Galaxy X is still out massed. A Big Fish or the largers Mimbari dreadnaugh not counting fins are the same size as a borg cube

[@paulcadden4967]

What shields? White stars don't have shields. The vorlon defense field was sposed to dispense some of the energy of incoming weapons but it they are not shields. In universe, star trek should always win due to shields. Without shields, B5 weapons could be as or more powerful, and base armour is better, so they should win

[@KallenSC]

IT is more powerful and armoring is much much stronger than any st

[@theidajawho]

Why does the Bab5 ship have shields? Gonna call bogus!

[@SeeHere2]

Howabout shadow vessels vs a borg cube

[@brentbartley6838]

I'd have to go with the Defiant. Whitestar's pulse cannons in the show didn't seem any more powerful than other pulse weapons and don't seem on par with Defiant pulse cannons, very rapid fire and devastating. Though Whitestar's single main beam seems like it's a bit more powerful than type 10 phaser strips. But I'd imagine Defiant's shields and armor would weather a few hits from that. Whitestar can only fire in a forward arc. Defiant has near full coverage with it's phaser beams so it can fire constantly in a maneuvering fight. Big advantage in Defiant's favor are the torpedos, especially with Whitestar's lack of shields. Photons would likely disable a Whitestar and Quantums would probably obliterate it. There are no equivalent weapons shown in B5. Pretty much all shown weapons were energy, particle or plasma beams or pulse weapons. The only capital ship class missles/torpedos I know of in lore are nuclear missles on the Warlocks and Star Trek is well past nuclear weapons being a threat to a shielded starship. Whitestar's armor is crystaline based I think and probably optimized for energy dissipation. And a full Minbari Sharlin class war cruiser was taken out by a couple nuclear mines. Concussive force from photon or quantum torpedos would probably break apart a Whitestar without too much trouble. And I never got how Minbari stealth tech made them so impossible to hit. Yeah if radar/lidar can't get a lock an electro optical sight should still work. They weren't invisible and Sharlin's are big. I doubt Starfleet sensors (as undefined and all capable as they are) could be jammed by Minbari tech.

[@moriartybayts]

Lamborghini vs Datsun..if anyone was witnessing this travesty they'd have shot down the Defiant for trying to scratch the self-healing paint.

[@darth368]

I believe Trek tech is more advanced by at least 200 yrs I believe at least from what I was reading

[@gregkelly2145]

Not more advanced than the Minbari or Vorlon factions. The Vorlons were 'first ones' and had civilization for millions of years. The Minbari were a space faring species for at least 1000 years. The White Star had Vorlon and Minbari technology.

[@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818]

@@gregkelly2145 its not how long they have been in space that matters in crossovers, its the feats of their technology. Minbari ships can be killed by single digit megaton nuclear warheads. Standard trek photon torpedoes are at least 64 megatons, with quantum torpedoes being multiple times more powerful. Of course trek is inconsistent in its firepower scaling with some low end feats being less than that, though most can be explained by dial a yield technology, while high end feats get into gigaton, teraton and even higher levels of insanity. And if you want to talk how long factions have been in space, many federation member worlds have been in space far longer than humanity. IE the vulcans have been in space for over 1500 years, and they aren't even the longest space faring federation member. The deltans, at least according to some sources have been in space for at least 4500 years.

[@jacoby1234ification]

I will say that’s a tie depends on the commanding the ship

[@anignorantbrit]

It is not even close the Defiant wins hands down. For a start it is capable of faster than light propulsion something which nobody seems capable of in the Babylon 5 universe. Which means their sensors and tracking systems would not be capable of detecting because they would have never encountered it before. Second their weapons are also capable of faster than light travel such as photon torpedoes again something the B5 universe has no defence against. Finally, the Defiant has deflector shields tech again something which seems to only be given to the Vorlons in the B5 universe. So it really isn't even close.

[@alexslgato1735]

Actually it is possible their sensors could track it and intercapt torpedoes if possible since B5 sensors are tachyon-based and thus also work FTL, but they would be surprised about a ship or weapon coming at FTL. The game changer that would tilt the balance towards the Defiant's favour would be the energy shields. Every time that a B5 ship has shown energy shields, it means that that ship is going to win under a normal confrontation, or at least be capable of going toe-to-toe with a fairly higher ship class.

[@hardline2a]

How about white star vs andromeda

[@UncommonKnowledge587]

Given that Vorlon technology is way ahead of most of B5's races technology, I'd say the White Star would be able to destroy the Defiant 🖖

[@alexslgato1735]

Yes, that is true, but the battle would not be one-sided however.

[@russellhowson9565]

I love the Whitestar but there's no way any ship from Babylon 5 would stand up to ships from Star Trek (except maybe the Shadows) namely because B5 ships don't have shields, its just not a technology that exists in that universe. Besides FTL, it's mostly a hard sci-fi series.

[@DennisBisansJr]

Can we see 4 borg ships from the futer and 5 time ships.

[@sea77]

The White Star is a better ship; it would wipe the floor with most federation ships. In show, it would never just continue running from anything (even the Shadow Sips) once they started attacking.

[@acebrandon3522]

OOOooohhhh!!!!!😳

[@PKPhoenix83]

Excepting things the Third Space Aliens, nothing in B5 even comes close to 24th Century Starfleet. The Defiant could do this battle with her shields down and she'd win.

[@ArmouryTerrain]

The Whitestar is the better ship and almost never fielded on its own. Sadly the Defiant should be able to win every fight by teleporting a bomb onto the Mimbari ship. This is a one sided technology gap.

[@shaneseverns4012]

I thought the Whitestar was going to launch the fighter it has.

[@davidhain2996]

who's to say that the federation shields would stop the white star weapons? They certainly didn't stop the dominion at first, and if they didn't get their hands on a ship and reverse engineered it (the dominion ship), they may never have won the dominion war

[@terencesmith9404]

The Whitestar is a combination of tech from a race called Minbari who are at least a thousand years more advanced than us, and the 2nd race called the Vorlons who are about 3.5 billion years more advanced than us. You decided how the Defiant would match up 🤔

[@alexslgato1735]

The "age-makes-might" mentality there does not totally align because of a few things I already mentioned on other comments: a civilization stagnating or entering dark ages (like both Minbari and Vorlons have done in their own way), that the Vorlons only gave the Minbari the most basic pointsof their technology (so no Vorlon shields nor weapons, only a self-repairing skin and upgraded Minbari beams) and that every civilization has a different technology base and progresses differently. An example of how the "age-makes-might" mentality is flawed are the Shadows vs Vorlons fights - the Shadows are the second oldest of the Old Races remaining on the galaxy (only behind Lorien's species), while the Vorlons, among the Old Ones, are noticeable younger than the Shadows by a few million years - and yet on same-number battles, the Vorlons win more often than not, and with little losses - the Shadows advantage there is numbers and that the Vorlons react slow to changes due to usually not needing to prepare huge fleets to combat other Old Ones (specially the Shadows) directly.

[@BC-dn6oq]

The Vulcans were already warp capable by 850 BC; so if we go by the ‘age’ argument, they’d certainly be easily able to beat the Minbari.

[@aaronwalker1615]

Yeah, the whitestar technology is of lower technology level than the Federation Starships...The Whitestar doesn't have shields 🛡️...It has bio organic armor , has laser and plasma bolt 🔩⚡ weapons....Not even a challenge for the warship Defiant....

[@RetroBadgerGaming]

Thanks for the info :-)

[@sciguyjeff]

The whitestar has the ability to adapt to weapons fire. Should have wiped the floor with the defiant

[@Incogneto1981]

Put the White Star against the F !!! PLEASE !!!

[@theone2519]

The White star is far more manoeuvrable, we have seen it spin, flip at high speeds making it almost impossible to target,

[@michaelescamilla5385]

hold on the white stars don't have shields they had armor if i remember have to watch babylon 5 now lol

[@Crantock-l1v]

B5 had far more maneuvreable ships, the white stars in particular were insane, interestingly, this game seems to have removed all the unique features and just made them differernt looking startrek ships.

[@retluoc]

Unfortunately, I know very little about Babylon 5 except for some of the main cast... Bruce Boxlightner, Claudia Christian, and Bill Mumy (I used to watch Lost in Space reruns as a child). Danger, Danger Will Robinson 😆 I have no idea how this will turn out, but I'm rooting for the Defiant. From what I could tell from the first fight, that primary beam weapon on the Babylon craft is distance based (like plasma torpedoes). My advice... stay away and use the quantums. Hahaha... in the first few seconds, you said exactly what I was thinking. Me too... not sure what to think either. The AI just seemed to go evasive at the end. I would give the edge to the Babylon ship if it can get close and use its primary weapon.

[@alexslgato1735]

For reference, on Babylon 5, the Whitestar does not have shields, they have an organic skin armour that acts like a self-repairing and self-learning hull polarizer.

[@AnimationCPU-y2k24]

Ever who programmed the White Star must not have watched B5. This was one of the worst representations of a ship I have seen so far.

[@aquariandawn4750]

You need to watch Babylon 5 to understand the the white star is built with a technology from an ancient race called the Vorlon. They're basically gods

[@alexslgato1735]

No, Vorlons are energy beings. The "gods" thing was genetically-engineered propaganda added the the Vorlons along with most types of telepath in the B5 Universe. Also they went stagnant on their tech and only gave the Minbari some toys to work with.

[@aquariandawn4750]

@@alexslgato1735 there you go misquoting me again I didn't say that they were gods. Stop it

[@alexslgato1735]

@@aquariandawn4750well, you said "they're basically gods", when actually they are just energy aliens, same way we do not call Medusans "basically gods"

[@alexslgato1735]

@@aquariandawn4750ok after reading some more comments, sorry if I jumped to conclusions about your comments too early.

[@Dr.Westside]

The white star would have been cut to pieces . It has no shields .

[@scottperry7311]

The AI did a horrible job and just had the White Star flying around most of the bottle not using it weapons. Not a good comparison. Also, the White Stars were far more manoverable than the Defiant. The White Stars could move sideways and even backwards in the physics of the Babylon 5 universe. The White Star could almost always have guns on a target. I love both ships, but his is such a bad simulation, and the universes are so different it hard to calculate an outcome.

[@Palmerrip]

B5 will always win. Seeing as DS9 was a stolen thing from JMS.

[@johnfisher9692]

Let's not forget Star Trek technology is compete BS tech and massive gaping holes in it's apparent logic and is incredibly fragile. How many times in TNG series did Work drone "Shields holding, warp engines offline" when hit by much smaller ships. If the magnetic containment on the matter/antimatter reactor hiccups even for a micro second, ships goes BOOM!, yet how often did that happen? And the White Star is a small cruiser not a full on battleship like the Defiant. Put it up against a full Minbari capital ships.

[@keithculvahouse1191]

A white star would not of gone evasive. they would of gotten really close and kept fighting.

[@philipholliday4682]

The whitestar can move a lot better than that she could out turn the defiant with ease

[@scott3002]

The White Star was 100 meters larger than USS Voyager. Babylon 5 universe much overscaled compaired to Star Trek.

[@curtisb3866]

I don't think it was a true showing of the white star, B-5 is a favorite of mine I have watched the series many times one of the main tactics is its speed and sudden turn and fire the white star in this just sat there even trying to keep distance should have been much harder.

[@brettstowell4029]

Valen was with the Sisko

[@RobertP-zk8vh]

the white star loses everytime phasers vs laser and no shields vs shields and ablative armor and quantum torpedo's

[@aquariandawn4750]

The USS Defiant doesn't use any Vorlon technology.

[@alexslgato1735]

The Whitestar does not use Vorlon shield technology either.

[@aquariandawn4750]

@@alexslgato1735 did I say shield technology? How do you plan on Miss quoting someone when everybody can read what was said in black and white? I didn't say shield.

[@alexslgato1735]

@@aquariandawn4750sorry, I've been in the equivalent of comment war-zone between Babylon 5 fans and Star Trek fans in another KZbin channel and in that channel they used "but this has vorlon technology, this doesn't" as a very-used excuse of telling people that a ship with vorlon technology would trump any other ship just because "it's vorlon technology, the vorlon had shield technology capable of trumping a shadow battlecrab death ray". Sorry if I misunderstood and assumed the meaning behind those words.

[@Ronald006]

The defiant is an over rated and over used vessel starfleet wouldn't send an escort vessel into deep space it's only designed for short term operations outside of the loan from the Romulans the ship wouldn't have a cloak in order to comply with the treaty. Starfleet would have sent a Nebula or Galaxy Class or Sov to engage a ship like that in deep space. outside of the Dominion or Borg conflict's the defiant's only job was to protect DS9 other than that it has no real use in the fleet.

[@darkmatter1152]

They do when theres 10+ of them. Pulse phasers are devastating.

[@Ronald006]

​@@darkmatter1152@darkmatter1152, not when it's outclassed by the Sovereign and the Promethus class starship dedicated to combat and exploration vessels.

[@darkmatter1152]

@@Ronald006 defiant's pulse phaser output is 70,000 Terrawatts

[@Ronald006]

@@darkmatter1152 the defiant might be strong, but it's no match for a dedicated combat capital ship. The Sovereign class is the latest and most advanced warship in the federation's fleet. It is so good it's the federation's flagship, and Prometheus is a long-range tactical cruiser. Both of them can hang in combat situations longer. The Defiant is a tough ship, but it can not fight on the same level as capital ships. It was barely able to stop the Lakota.

[@darkmatter1152]

@@Ronald006 big e is not most powerful uss enterprise F was or any Oddessy class. G is not ass powerful, but on star trek online the USS ENTERPRISE-G ECLIPSE CLASS is most most powerful. It should be Canon. And Titan-A should have stayed. Then eclipse class G would be new ENTERPRISE. I will always go with that.