Viewer Was Sued and Lost! And Never Knew About It - Ep. 6.583

A viewer's question addresses how he was sued and lost - without ever knowing about the lawsuit.
www.lehtoslaw.com

[@papatutti59]

I took a renter to Court who ran out on me in the middle of the night. They produce a document saying they could break the lease with no repercussion. I told the Judge I never signed any such document. I asked to Judge if I could see the document. As I finished reading the whole document, I started laughing out loud. The renters used two different colored inks pens and signed my first and last name wrong. I won my case.

[@davids7550]

By happenstance, I found out I was being sued years ago, but was never served. I went to court at the appointed time and my case was called, but no complainant was there. I explained to the judge I was never served, but was told that point was moot because I showed up. Since there was nobody from the other side there, the judge dismissed the case with prejudice. As I walked out, the other guys walked in. I did not stick around to watch the fireworks.

[@cryogeneric]

What were you being sued over and did you know the person who was suing you? Just curious

[@DeliciousDeBlair]

I had this happen to me MULTIPLE TIMES!!! I got SUED WITHOUT NOTICE!!! In MY case, however, I was NEVER served, AND they STILL judged AGAINST me!

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@DeliciousDeBlair Sadly, some judges don't care about due process. They'll just assume that the papers were properly served unless you've got substantial evidence that they didn't serve the defendant. Sadly, the judge may not care due to the people that don't show up.

[@olstar18]

Reminds me of a divorce case I heard about. The guys wife was trying to get full custody and claimed he had moved but she didn't know the new address and got permission to serve through the newspaper. Fortunately someone that actually lived in the town was able to tell him so he could show up and point out that he still lived in the same house and questioned the reason for her lies. I wish I could remember the results of the case though.

[@driedbrainfreeze2149]

Had a cc co. sue me and never knew it happened. 0 notice and was ruled against.

[@stephenbaker9475]

I had a phone call from a company that said that they had tried to serve me papers three times in three days and they were sending the police to arrest me. I am a disabled veteran and hardly leave the house and said as much. They called me a liar and said that if I didn't pay them xyz amount right then the police were coming to arrest me. I laughed so hard and said I was waiting for the police to get to my house so we could shoot targets. They couldn't get off of the phone fast enough.

[@fayereeves6568]

That is hilarious 😅

[@robkeyes5882]

Sir. This is a typical scam. Just ignore the crooks. As per far credit collection act of 1978 ssi and military benefits are untouchable up to and including double of your monthly benefit

[@stephenbaker9475]

@@robkeyes5882 I think you missed the point of my story

[@inukithesavage828]

Ooh, you can shoot targets and be arrested at the same time! Efficient!

[@benztech2262]

I’ve responded similarly to a very similar scam.

[@markhenderson9778]

Duringy my divorce I was out of the country on a training course. I informed my lawyer I would be away and gave him other contact details in case something happens. When I return, I found out I had a judgment against me which basically would have left me extremely financially challenged. In a panic I call my Lawyer and he was unaware of any rulings against me. It turns out the other Lawyer lied and told the judge he had served me and my lawyer and since neither of us showed up to court they rule against me. My lawyer straighten it out in the end. When I asked will the other Lawyer be disciplined or held accountable, my lawyer said no but the other Lawyer now owes him a huge favor at some point. That's great for him but all the stress and added cost to fight this left me hating lawyers even more.

[@rosebarnes9625]

Did you have to pay your lawyer to straighten it out, or did he do it for free or include it in the "flat fee" he was already charging you?

[@markhenderson9778]

Rose Barnes I wish it was a flat fee. I am sure my lawyer didn't charge me fully as he was also shocked and frustrated with what the other Lawyer did. This was my second lawyer during my divorce. The first ones fees were escalating quicker than I could support and with little progress. Also after one court hearing the 1st lawyer was extremely concerned how my ex-with was after the hearing. My comment to her was is she her for me or for the ex-wife. Plus she just kept pushing I pay the higher side of support calculation and not supporting my push for the lower side. Basically I had a very bad experience with lawyers and divorce.

[@rosebarnes9625]

@@markhenderson9778 the reason I asked: if the other lawyer's punishment for fraud was owing your lawyer a future favor, that was your lawyer's payment for fixing the problem, period! If your lawyer billed you for the time he spent fixing the problem, then your lawyer is comitting fraud by billing you for his time when he was paid by the other lawyer's future favor. Otherwise, if he bills you for the time he spent fixing the other lawyer's fraud, he needs to file professional charges against the other lawyer and get him officially sanctioned if not disbarred! I'm seeing there is a "Good ole boy" network in the legal profession that is just as bad as the one for CEOs and Law Enforcement.... no wonder lawyers are despised as much as politicians....

[@audimaster5000]

Wow that must have been a test of patience and so shitty, it’s likely hard to get over. I understand supreme courts deal with such a lawyer submitting a false summons. To prove that and bring such case to supreme courts I would imagine would have been more expensive to your sanity and upfront costs in the hopes you prevail. Then whatever happens with a judgement, would it be worth it? Ya know. Obviously I’m just making a KZbin comment that entertains half-ass speculation.

[@ctaukus9146]

Mark Henderson Every state has an ethics board right. You should find out who yours is and contact him about the attorney. Give them his name and insist that he is disbarred

[@chuckhancock4551]

I had a similar issue where I didn't know I had been sued until I received a notice of garnishment. That process server is in prison for fraud and I ended up getting more than my money back. :)

[@MrBluman999]

I hope he rots. Glad you got your money. :)

[@LordZordid]

I shared office with an elderly man who was appointed by the court to serve summons. He used this as a way to keep in shape. The argument was that many of the people served lived sorta inaccessible places and it was a fun challenge of getting to them. And people who know they are wanted or have something to hide are notoriously hard to find. So he would massage the old brain cells by doing some detective work. Other bailiffs I have spoken to do not seem to enjoy their work at all!

[@Iowa599]

Awesome quote! "The difference between stupidity and genius, is genius has it's limits."

[@ffggddss]

*its limits Fred

[@Iowa599]

​@@ffggddss I went possessive, and forgot the rule: "Its is the possessive form of it, meaning 'of it'. ... Its, without an apostrophe, is a possessive form, where an apostrophe is usually required. " www.bristol.ac.uk/arts/exercises/grammar/grammar_tutorial/page_13.htm#:~:text=Its%20is%20the%20possessive%20form,%2C%20meaning%20'of%20it'.&text=Its%2C%20without%20an%20apostrophe%2C%20is,an%20apostrophe%20is%20usually%20required. "The general rule is that the possessive of a singular noun is formed by adding an apostrophe and s, whether the singular noun ends in s or not. The possessive of a plural noun is formed by adding only an apostrophe when the noun ends in s, and by adding both an apostrophe and s when it ends in a letter other than s." www.thepunctuationguide.com/apostrophe.html Well, writing is my limit. . . I'm glad it's only that, and that isn't in another way.

[@nickknickerbocker6415]

""AWESOME ""🍎🍎

[@christinekelly8766]

Nice

[@LarryLMelton]

In Texas we have Rule 106 (Method of Service) wherein if all other methods have failed (listed in Rule 106) then the court may authorize service by “(2) in any other manner that the affidavit or other evidence before the court shows will be reasonably effective to give the defendant notice of the suit.” Back in the 1990s, I worked with a Deputy Constable who mainly served civil papers in a mostly affluent area. In this area, there were many entitled people who believed they were smarter than the law and went to great lengths to avoid service. This Deputy Constable took it very seriously when he believed someone was intentionally avoiding him. He used the language in (2) to justify nailing the paperwork into the very expensive front door with a 6 penny nail. This came to light when a person complained that this practice caused damage to the front door in the hundreds of dollars. While not the best solution to the problem, the Deputy Constable was not disciplined for his actions due to his liberal interpretation of Rule 106. The elected Constable did tell him to never do this again. While I understand the politics in this matter, I do believe that nailing the paperwork into the front door would be reasonably effective to give the defendant notice. Ahhhh … I miss those days. Society has become far too litigious for my liking. No one seems able to take a joke anymore. Larry from Texas

[@Dervraka]

Same thing happened to me, I got "sewer served" in Virginia at a residence I hadn't lived for over three years, where I supposedly signed for the service documents. Didn't find out until the outfit tried to garnish my wages for a "summary judgement". I got it taken care of but I had to pay out over $2,000 in legal fees for a lawyer in Richmond, VA to go to court, get the case reopened and the summary judgement thrown out after demonstrating that I lived and worked in Colorado and could not have been served at that address in Virginia on that day (because luckily I had paperwork showing I was on a business trip to South Korea at that time). The lawyer said this is really not uncommon, that process serving outfits will often "sewer serve" and even fake signatures if they can't locate you. (Oh and for those wandering what the term "sewer served" means. I had to ask my lawyer myself after he used it several times. It's slang meaning when the process server couldn't locate you at the residence on file, they apparently just tossed the paperwork in the gutter and reported you were served, hence the only entity that actually got served the paperwork was the sewer.)

[@chekovcall2286]

(:

[@muzvid]

You mean, on top of forgery, process servers litter?

[@floydlooney6837]

process servers who do that need to be arrested

[@rosebarnes9625]

Yes, in your situation there was no statute of limitations issue, why was the process server not prosecuted?

[@bryanwoods3373]

I saw a news clip about some men joining on a suit because they had been named in paternity suits and were not aware until after the time frame to contest. One was in jail, and he has the visitor list to show no one talked to him that day much less the server.

[@thisiscompletelyreta]

This is something I’ve been wondering about for a while. It seems extremely easy to sue someone and then “accidentally” write down an incorrect address for them so they never actually receive it and then have a default judgement against them

[@almostfm]

My mom got sued right after my dad died by his first wife and her two children, who claimed that she was entitled to half the value of the house, because of the time they'd lived there. Fortunately, mom was able to prove that the house was purchased seven years after dad and the first wife got divorced, so they obviously didn't live there during the marriage. and the downpayment came from the sale of mom's previous house. While the matter was winding its way through the courts, my half-sister called, and she wondered why mom was so cool to her. Mom explained that she wasn't very happy with being sued by her. My half-sister was horrified, because she'd never signed it, and hadn't even known about it. So she checked with her brother (my half-brother) and found he hadn't signed it, either. Turned out that the first wife had forged their names. It finally gets to court, and mom's lawyer produced the proof that the first wife and kids had never lived there, and sworn statements from my half-sister and brother stating that the signatures were forged. Mom won the case, obviously, and got her attorney's fees paid by the first wife. The judge ripped the first wife and her attorney a new one, and told the first wife that he had half a mind to file charges against her, at which point my mom asked that the judge not do that because it really wouldn't have served any purpose.

[@adamorick2872]

She should have let the judge push charges. Perjury should always be persued

[@warrensteel9954]

@@adamorick2872 yep. Need it on record so she can't pull that crap again.

[@knghtbrd]

@@adamorick2872 Guarantee that someone who gets away with this kind of crap once will do or has done it again. That's reason enough IMO.

[@matthewk6731]

People are too forgiving. Myself included. A big problem is that when I've tried to go after someone, the Criminal Injustice System, does very little and the bad guys don't learn their lesson. The lesson that good people learn is that most people in charge are useless and/or corrupt so it's not worth it for good people to even try.

[@yegfreethinker]

I agree with the previous posters stating she should have pursued the charges. If this situation were a different; like if this were someone who had done some illegal things in the past but has long since then reformed her (the forger) character then I'd say by all means don't pursue charges; however this woman was anything but penitent considering she was right in the middle of perjuring herself in order to commit fraud. Considering that this woman had zero repentance at that this time, I'd have demanded pursuit of the maximum charges that could have been brought against her.

[@CoreyGemme]

It shouldn’t be hard to find who the server was if they have to sign their name on it or the attorney hired them. Why isn’t the person who forged the signature’s going to jail?

[@CoreyGemme]

Steve, you kind of dropped the ball and left us hanging with one big huge question unanswered. What could you do to the forging process server? Shouldn’t he be going to jail? what legal actions could be taken realistically?

[@Cherijo78]

Here in Washington State that's perjury in the second degree which is a class C felony, which carries up to a 5-year prison sentence and up to $10,000 fine. It says so right on the affidavit of service that you sign. I know because I've signed that paper twice when acting as a server. Even if they were somehow to negotiate it down to false swearing, that's still a gross misdemeanor with up to a year in jail and up to a $5,000 fine. We definitely don't treat it as a joke here in Washington.

[@stewartthompson72]

@@Cherijo78 How often does that really happen though? It seems like any time someone in the Justice System is caught doing something wrong, they all circle the wagons, and there are not any consequences for the transgression(s).

[@jonathanhains814]

@@Grauenwolf the judgement survives the forgery, hilarious.

[@byronwatkins2565]

At the very least, someone should lose his license to practice. Is this not the purpose of licensing tradesmen in the first place? If the lawyer cannot demonstrate that he was skillfully and intentionally deceived, then he should not remain an officer of the court. Due diligence is the lawyer's responsibility; once he has failed that, how can the court ever trust him again? And once the process server has cost a lawyer his license, he should expect more rigor to accompany future proofs of service.

[@jamesgalvin3051]

I was sued in a Federal Court 18 years ago by a Pro Se litigant, service was allegedly made by the required "person over the age of 18 not a party to the action" (her husband). Since I was never actually served the Pro Se obtained a default judgment, requested a transcript of judgment and promptly filed in the State court system. The County clerk is not required to notify regarding the filing and as a result this 18 year old "judgement" prevented me from closing on my house years later. You can imagine the "nightmare" of attempting to void the Default Judgment.

[@bleacherz7503]

Motion to vacate in the original jurisdiction

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@bleacherz7503 you can file, but there's no guarantee that they'll grant the motion. If it was a relative that may encourage the judge to change it.

[@GirlofNicky]

End qualified immunity for goverment and their employees now.

[@GirlofNicky]

This is collusion of the government with unscrupulous lawyers. All, invluding the sloppy judge should be disbarred.

[@GirlofNicky]

including

[@chrisbaker8533]

I'm reminded of an ongoing case where a certain person was dodging being served. She was brain dead enough to talk about it on Twitter. The court didn't take kindly to that. It sucks to be served, been there done that.

[@TidewaterC]

I once worked concierge in a large condominium building. A guy drops a summons for a person that no longer lived there on my desk. I told him that I know that unit was sold a couple years ago and they didn't live here anymore. He just says " I don't care" and walks out leaving me with the notice.

[@mrwess1927]

Send it back to the judge/court explaining the issue

[@jadedandbitter]

By explain he means "reporting the server for fraud"

[@matthewlemon523]

I love this channel. You explain the basics of what is going on, without getting too much into the weeds about it.

[@robertscheu9771]

and if he does, he cuts it out

[@stewartthompson72]

My experience is that Process Servers lie about having properly served someone all the time, and many Lawyers are complicit.

[@keithbrookshire]

One of my best friends is a process server. He takes great bragging rights that only once in five or six years has he not been able to serve someone face to face.

[@michaelwarren2391]

ALL process servers ALL the time??

[@DesperadoTheTexasScratcher]

Being a process server myself, I’ve never lied about not serving anyone. I actually do my due diligence. In my state, lying on that form is perjury. It becomes aggrivated perjury which is a felony, when it involves a key witness. It’s not worth my certification

[@tman1129]

As an attorney, i can tell you there are reputable process servers, and fly by nights... the good servers are harder to find, of course! And they work hard at what they do!

[@terriesmith8219]

Most lawyers are corrupt just like majority of politicians. Atleast 99% are corrupt. That is just my opinion, not factual statistic.

[@Ripu2]

The county I live in, the sheriff's dept serves all summons.

[@copcuffs9973]

An estranged wife listed a new address with the court, for her and a minor child she was sueing to get child support for. Estranged husband verified that new address with the court clerk. He then paid for process to be served at that address. Estranged mother didn't appear in court, 50/50 petition for joint custody was ordered. Husband was taken back to court. Estranged mother claimed that she was never served. Judge said Service was given at the address you gave the court, and verified beforehand. Mom claimed she was never served because she never lived there. Mom claimed she gave a false address to the court so that Estranged husband could NEVER serve her paperwork. SMH no contempt No penalties for false information to the court.

[@atticstattic]

source?

[@mbburry4759]

Is it really that suprising with the way divorce proceedings are usually handled?

[@nickv1008]

Lying in court is the new fad...even the FBI doing it in FISA court...its like the judges just dont care. As in "new" I mean last 60 or so years.

[@copcuffs9973]

@@atticstattic Asking me to doxx a guy?!

[@atticstattic]

@@copcuffs9973 Asking where your information comes from,

[@mironkorzalko7761]

Sold an investment property. Some months after closing my lawyer says we owe thousands for miscalculated closing costs. I told em both to kick rocks n settle it between themselves as they were both responsible for reviewing the closing papers and finalizing the deal. Hired a new lawyer after that.

[@JonBoy470]

The sad thing is sewer service is so often effective. Speaking from experience it really ruins their day when you actually show up for court.

[@CoryRwtfyt]

I had the same thing happen in Indiana. Never got served, lost, and couldn't appeal. Only found out because the sheriff showed up to deliver the lawsuit execution orders.

[@samramirez2160]

I'm so glad you mentioned the fact that as an Attorney that you are an Officer of The Court. So many Lawyers seem to forget this.

[@fluxsmith_]

I was active duty military (stateside) and lost a lawsuit in Utah by default. They got away with it by serving the Secretary of State, and publishing in the want ads of a local paper for three days. Apparently it was legal, but it shouldn’t be.

[@sirstephen9825]

You have been protected by the service member relief act.

[@JamesBrown-tx3sb]

Had an insurance company send my summons to an address in Georgia for an accident in Ohio and all party’s involved lived in Ohio at the time of the accident and law suit I lived in Ohio and still do. End result I lost the case and lost my license for failure to appear had to fight to get license back then sued the insurance company for what they did.

[@richardbeckenbaugh1805]

I had some checks stolen, filed affidavits of forgery with the local police and court. The guy who stole them used one at a local fast food restaurant. The employee at the counter took his I.d., noted that it didn’t match the check and took it anyway, writing his I.d. on the check. The restaurant sued me in small claims court. The manager of the restaurant was the one who showed up to argue the case against me. The judge went off and asked why he was suing me when an affidavit of forgery was filed BEFORE the check was used AND the person at the counter knew the check was forged. The manager replied that it was company policy because the amount was small and most people don’t show up for court and they get default judgments against them. I showed up for court, so he knew he’d lost this one.

[@robertscheu9771]

@@richardbeckenbaugh1805 those fast food policies arent very smart... the time waste for a manager for every single case surely doesnt exceed the value gained by some unpaid burgers and cheese fries... keyword cost of opportunity... i bet the franchise holder of this restaurant wonders why he has such small margins

[@jaywhoisit4863]

I dont even know why this was recommended but I watched the entire thing and found it interesting.

[@lawrenceanderson6167]

My friend is a process server and serves in all boros of NYC. Because NYC had problems with process servers saying they served at same time, NYC has put in so many requirements onto servers now. For instance, when my friend serves, he must document it on a worksheet, take a picture of the worksheet (which in his phone has an app that documents the time) . He also takes a picture of the building where he served and that is time stamped in the app. A lot of trouble to go through cause a few lazy servers want to play games

[@wayneegli8379]

It should require adequate documentation. What you are describing sounds like a 5 minute task. Oh, the horror. A process server actually has to properly document a service. SMH.

[@IncogNito-xx7to]

Actually that isn’t that much trouble, because once he has done all that, he’s done, and never has to worry about it or deal with it again.

[@christinekelly8766]

What a good judge. To go the extra mile and check out for him/her self the mystery of place date and time

[@dakota9821]

You mean, actually doing his job? 🤡

[@ScottRoofwalker]

I had something similar in my divorce in Missouri. I was served, and signed for service. Upon taking the petition to my lawyer he showed that we were missing a page in the petition. We contacted her attorney who acknowledged the missing page, and said he would get us the page. A few weeks go by and suddenly I am divorced. Upon going to the court and pulling the file we found that instead of sending us the missing page her attorney wrote an entirely mew petition for divorce and tucked a copy of the previous notice of service on the back of the new petition. The court took it and never noticed that the date of service for two documents filed weeks apart was on the same day AND that the second petitions service was a photo copy. Judge never cared and would never address this issue. Such is life

[@danratsnapnames]

ya. be happy that it was that EASY. most divorces suck the life and money from you for the rest of your life.

[@johnallen6039]

It happened to me that I got served I had been waiting for papers regarding a mortgage and did not think anything of it and signed. Turned out it was for a suit against someone with a similar name not the same name. I contacted the law firm immediately and they said they would take care of it. Next thing I know I get notice of a judgement against me. In the end I had to hire a lawyer to fix this even though it was obvious that I was not the person in the complaint (John not Jean, residence in a different province etc.) didn't save me any money but you want these things straightened out.

[@osmanvincent1975]

As long as you are answering legal type questions: I live near the city border where most of the block is Oakland and only a few buildings are in Berkeley. There are probably 20 other similar split blocks along the border area. The City of Oakland has been unlawfully giving out Oakland street sweeping tickets here and elsewhere in Berkeley for decades despite many many warnings and letters. There appears to be no signage anywhere indicating where street sweeping begins or end or where the city boundary is. Many of the people who get these tickets are patrons or employees of local businesses who have no chance of knowing where the boundaries are or understanding concepts of jurisdiction. I have not be able to find a semi-local class action lawyer willing to consider suing a city. Any suggestion? Feel free to use this any way you want.

[@KeoniPhoenix]

So when it comes to street sweeping on streets that are shared between two municipal corporations, there likely is an agreement on responsibility of the street sweeping between the two. The only argument that can really be made is that you have a signage problem and that as the street is shared between the two municipal corporations, at least the city with the larger portion should be installing the appropriate signage. I consider it mandatory that city and town boundaries be properly signed, but also that important issues of regulatory control of the street parking should be posted as well, however believe it or not its usually not required under state laws. Where I live parking restrictions are only posted at the town line and rarely along the streets as state law and court practices have allowed for nearly a century now.

[@AccessAccess]

Don't most states have a statute of limitations on collecting a judgement and other debts? The company, if it even still exists, has probably long forgotten about the judgement or would be unable to collect it in it's current state. So it might be best to just leave it alone rather than risk reopening the case doing something that would make the judgement collectable again.

[@jonsmith1259]

Steve, what are the rules in Michigan? How long are judgments good for, and can they be renewed prior to the expiration date? How many times can it be renewed?

[@jasonchinn539]

It's between 3 - 7 years in all states, except s##thole Ohio, which is 14!! State was concocted to devour the soul of working people...

[@juliesczesny90]

In CA, you have Corps who keep buying old debts, paid or not - and mail to you, that they're willing to make a deal, on the alleged debt owed. They keep reselling this info, long after it's fallen off your credit. Different companies will send you these, even 30 yrs later. But if you respond, told by a Credit Co, it resets the timer, and will destroy the credit you spent decades rebuilding.

[@edparker9837]

That happened to me in the late 90s. I was living in River Rouge (Wayne County) and was sued and didn't know about it until a year later. I had to file bankruptcy because of it. I'm wondering if it was the same process server you commented about.

[@donc9751]

Very interesting situation! Theres some shady debt collection agencies out there that will try suing people in Hope's that they dont respond or didnt keep receipts that showed you as paid in full on a matter. This happened to me years after I had received a letter showing I was paid in full. Had I let it go or not kept my receipt and papers it could of cost me a lot of money! Moral of the story, keep those important documents! This happened 10 years I think after I settled the matter. I ended up consulting a lawyer then sent a copy of my paper work along with a letter to the Attorney of the company suing me and he followed up with a dismissal or something letting me know that the suit had been dropped. I bet plenty of people have been stuck this way and ended up paying!

[@thatgirlwhousedtohavereall5549]

That happened to me. It was a satellite tv company.

[@driedbrainfreeze2149]

Sounds unscrupulous

[@dewaynemiguel3349]

I'm in california and I have full custody of my kids my EX went to court to try and take our kids from me,she has a bad drug problem,she went to court lied forged the papers saying I was served thinking she would automatically win,I was in New Mexico when they said I was served,lucky the judge didnt give her the kids but the judge almost held me in contempt for not showing up at the hearing how come when I proved I was out of state she didnt get in trouble for falsifying the papers.

[@naoway336]

Did you file a police report?

[@dewaynemiguel3349]

@@naoway336 no I showed the judge when we did go to court 6 weeks later

[@naoway336]

@@dewaynemiguel3349 A judge doesn't open cases, the police do.

[@bobfognozzle]

I am compelled to give you just one word of advice...SUNSCREEN.......!☀️

[@zWhistler]

Thank You for all the knowledge you share.

[@lloydvandever9647]

I love your comment on stupidity. "The difference between stupidity and genius is genius has its limits. " The one that I use, and I don't know if I heard it and started using it or if I came up with it but I've used it since high school over 40 years ago is, "The difference between stupidity and ignorance is that stupidity is permanent." Love your show. Thankyou.

[@JKArcade]

Thank you for this well articulated explanation of process serving in this case.

[@stevenwright4664]

Had a similar issue many years ago. I used to get mail from Wolpoff and Abramson (now out of business for being scumbags) titled notice of intent to sue over some alleged debt owed. My lawyer said it was their standard tactic and not to respond. I subsequently moved from MD to VA and the mail stopped. Several months later my payroll dept called to let me know they would be garnishing my wages per a court order awarded to Wolpoff because I failed to appear. Called my lawyer and let him know, because I had never received a summons. Sure enough, they claimed and had signed testimony that I was served at my old address. Problem is I hadn’t lived at that address at the time they claimed I was served. My lawyer was able to prove to the court there was no way I could have been served at that address and the judgement was reversed with prejudice. Cost me $500 but better than the $10k judgement those slime balls got off their sewer service.

[@chuckandy3d249]

Happened to me, unfortunately for them I told them that I never had a loan through them so I just filled out police report

[@grayaj23]

It's a thing: Contesting service often counts as a waiver of service. "I was never served so I didn't know" means "You know *now*, so let's proceed with the lawsuit."

[@hellermountain]

"You never want your life to get 'interesting', when 'interesting' is in quotes." --- You are wise. I will tell my people about you

[@joatmon3282]

Ancient Chinese curse. "May you live in interesting times."

[@Caeser194]

In Pennsylvania when a judgement is served,the company has 20 years to collect,after 20 years the judgement goes away. interesting story.

[@brett76544]

even liens, but here is a way to refresh them. We have this one property on our sewer system that never paid the tap in fee (for capacity) or the connection fee (saddle and inspection) in 1986. Then has never paid a sewer bill. They are on a water well, so the phrase is try to shut my water off. Now that he is trying to sell the property, house with 250 acres and the realtors and lawyers are talking to us. Now if we went with forcing a sheriffs sale, we most likely would not get the full amount.n plus the infamy that goes with doing so in a small town.

[@JosePerez-zt8si]

I have a default judgment in Lancaster pa, I live in ny I found out because i got a letter from collection agency I went to Lancaster pa to find out and they said that they served me and they cannot do anything, all that happened while I am living in ny. So to make the story short I found out that ny does not accept default judgment or confession. So they would have to refile here and have discovery meaning they would have to show that I own the money they said I own. It's been 6 years since I told the collection agency that I haven't hear from then since. By the way the judgement happened in 2008 and they contact me in 2014 for the matter.

[@Caeser194]

@@JosePerez-zt8si statute of limitations may apply

[@mikejoerger3333]

Pretty much the same here in Florida judgments good for 10 years and then you can go back and get it renewed for another 10 years after that it goes away

[@norman3605]

Many if not all states have a limit on the time a judgement remains valid and enforceable.

[@AMERICANPATRIOT1945]

The mere fact that news of the default judgement somehow made its way to this defendant is proof positive that the process server could have somehow arranged for service of process to somehow make its way to the defendant as well, no excuses. It is time we force all of the nonsense in our court system to stop. It is time we mandate that dishonesty and all other forms of ethical violation voids all and resets all back to pre judgement times. This should include contracts as well as court cases. Dishonesty is never within its rights and those who are dishonest are never within their rights in regards to their dishonest behavior. First, all frivolous cases must be banned, SLAPP and otherwise, with severe penalties for filing them. Lawyers must be held personally liable for all expenses incurred for filing frivolous cases. At the beginning of the case, when a defendant declares a case to be frivolous, the judge will have the power to make that determination. If the jury should have final say over this plus the power to decide guilt or innocence. If the defendant is ruled not guilty and the case is ruled frivolous, the plaintiff and their attorney should be forced to pay the full costs of the defense. Next, any legal professionals, no matter their position, who are caught lying or committing any form of fraud, should be permanently disbarred and jailed for a minimum of then years. There are enough honest people who are capable of serving in our legal system. We don't need the bad ones.

[@mndarmstrong4473]

I love my local Enterprise Car Rental office, but someone at the Corporate Damage Recovery Unit tried to hold me liable for hail damage on a car I'd rented. Massive fail. I sent them a copy of the rental agreement, which showed NO damage and was signed by a rental agent. I also pointed out that I'd elected the Collision Damage Waiver, so I wouldn't be liable for damage in any case. Lastly, I pointed out to them that the rental had occurred in late December in Colorado, that we NEVER get hail in December, and that we didn't even get measurable snowfall until after the car had been returned. A few weeks later, I received a letter: "Dear Sir: We've decided to absorb the cost of repairs...".

[@rosebarnes9625]

I would have responded, "Dear sirs, I have decided to take my extensive business elsewhere..."

[@tomgcooktown5019]

"Opine". I like a person who knows & uses the English language well. TgT

[@yadayada752]

He has all those dictionaries

[@nickv1008]

ABSQUATULATE AND OPINE NO MORE!

[@oregongaper]

Indeed, cromulence like his is rare these days.

[@DePaul31]

Thanks for opining on this facet of civil law

[@RibbitHopX]

A year after I bought my house, I found a summons taped to my door with the name of the former owners' tenant. I called the attorney listed on it to let him know.

[@nitrokcf]

Twice I've had my house go up for auction and didn't know about it. The only way we caught it was some guy knocking on the door to see if we knew our house was up for auction and did we want to sell our house. Each time the lawyer said they served us and WE WERE NEVER SERVED. Don't take it personally, love your Videos, but I despise attorneys and process servers.

[@sidneybear]

Thank you so much Steve, first time I viewed your comments...VERY IMPRESSED. I look forward to more videos.

[@jameskiehm546]

Steve, I had similar situation as described. I had a second residence for work in another state. I had been there for several months. One day I noticed my pay deposit was about $600 less per pay period. I determined the short pay was due to a garnishment. I was never served. I determined who had sued me and it was valid, student debt for one of my kids. I owed the money so rather than fight, I just kept paying through the garnishment. I felt I had no case to appeal the payments only how the payments would be made so I just let it proceed and the debt was paid. Key is I was never served but they knew where I worked and were able to garnish me. Also my LinkedIn account was up to date so they had to have looked there for my employer. We are a country of laws but this process felt really shady to me.

[@MichaelGackler]

When I was sued and served (in Michigan), I wasn't given the option of signing an acknowledgement. I would have signed it just to cooperate.

[@PeaceChanel]

Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste and Thank You for All your efforts to support this Great Cause 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ 🌷 ☮️ ❤️

[@bkohatl]

Judge Judy had a case a few years ago where a woman was suing her husband from whom she was separated. She used a relative to perform service. Turns out that she had set up a meeting for custody exchange with him far away from his home. Knowing the service was fake, she went to court and won a default judgment. Judge Judy called the woman an operator and verbally castigated her for her dishonesty. The woman kept saying it was legitimate. Judge Judy was so angry she said she was going to send a copy of the case in her court to the judge of the other case. She told the young man to leave Judy's Court and go to file an appeal.

[@richardcramer1604]

For a second there I thought you were going to quote the Chinese curse which says “May you live in interesting times".

[@gwspangler9231]

There have been times when I have worked days and evenings on weekdays and during the day on the weekend. I have a po box known to family and companies I deal because I have neighbors that steal my mail and anything else on my porch, so a process sever would have to be very lucky to serve me.

[@jimmylove3413]

I have similar situation , thanks for your knowledge and input.

[@roadtrip2943]

So a lawyer presenting defective process as valid gets him in more trouble than lying to a FISA court

[@Absaalookemensch]

Using this system, lawyers can constantly file civil action against people for even the slightest legal reason for just enough money to turn a profit after filing and legal fees. Coordinating their efforts, they can have a constant influx of money.

[@Pwnulolumad]

You are a good man Mr. Lehto!

[@MrSmith-on1qz]

So the way the justice system is set up is based on a high trust society, yet the more ppl learn how it actually works will create a low trust society

[@skippylippy547]

This was a GOOD one! Thank you Steve. :)

[@robertrettig7110]

Steve, I watched enough your shows to know that no matter how bad a lawyer or judge is, they seemed to ultimately not pay any or very much of a price for their illegal or unethical behavior! And we wonder how we've become a two tier system of justice in this country nationwide!

[@DVankeuren]

The serving process should be held to a higher standard, this is ridiculous.

[@MrTStat]

Of course he reads everything, he is a lawyer for god sake

[@TheHermitHacker]

This happens all the time! Sad, but true.

[@christophermcelligott1593]

When are people going to learn that being a landlord is in no way, shape or form easy money.

[@JTA1961]

Even worse with a room/house mate. It sure sounds good at the start...

[@boprosplumbing]

I've worked as a contractor for property management companies and seen a lot of renters. I can assure you that the standard mentality of renters (atleast in my area) is "my landlord owes me the best things for the next year cuz i pay a lot for rent" "he better just replace the entire A/C system, instead of just fixing it" "i don't like the way the water heater looks, i'm going to call yall next week and see about replacing the water heater too." ($5,000+ for a/c system, $1200-$2000+ new water heater). Not all, but many property management companies would say "don't tell the home owner any pricing, we have to mark up any prices yall give us. So give us good pricing so that we can make some money off the work you do, if you do this, we'll give you more work" constant push and pull, usually the landlord is the one who suffers because renters feel super entitled. Interestingly enough, i have worked for renters who enjoyed my service and knowledge so much that they would hire us once they bought their own home. The interesting part is where many say, "i might just go back to renting, it was so much easier when i didn't have to worry about paying $5k for a new A/C system" or "do you know how much they wanted for new carpet! i tried to get the landlord to pay for new carpets while i was just renting, but now that i own it, i might have to just keep these ugly ones a couple more years." lmao just thought some landlords might appreciate a contractor's insight

[@naoway336]

I couldn’t get my landlord to fix anything. Didn’t help that the company had a new landlord every other month it seemed.

[@pauls5745]

I always enjoy that saying that is actually an ancient curse, "may you live in interesting times"

[@dixiechampagne2892]

I feel his pain. Remember that "complicated" (lol) case I mentioned in a Live Chat? There are similar issues, just more people involved in multiple states. I've got about 11 months left (I think) to decide how I want to play this. I'm not willing to spend money suing broke people, so it'll likely come in the form of multiple professional complaints against the petitioner's enablers. Thank you for doing this episode, great information

[@jasongarrett5437]

I knew a coworker that had to get divorced from his ex-wife again after he had been divorced for years, been remarried and had a two-year-old child with his new wife because the judge said the legal service the ex-wife received wasn’t good enough. There was no dispute that she got served by a process server at her work (she admitted she got that), she got an email from his attorney reminding her of the trial date, and she got a phone call from his attorney the day before trial reminding her of the trial. The judge said it made no sense, now years later, that she wouldn’t have shown up for trial, so he asked the ex-husband if he called her the day of trial to remind her, and because he didn’t, the judge threw out the original judgement and ordered a redo of the divorce. And of course I asked for clarification to make sure this wasn’t just a request for a modification in child support or child custody, but he said even his attorney was shocked that this was an actual redo to determine asset and debts and the whole thing over again. Fortunately, this wouldn’t happen anywhere else because family court isn’t a real court-they make it up as it goes along.

[@Cherijo78]

That should be a direct appeal. It makes absolutely no sense.

[@rosebarnes9625]

As Family courts do everywhere....

[@robertgolding]

Just saw this video, very happy to see a shout out for us Croweaters (South Australian nick name). I'm not actually on the island as it is small and remote, but have lived all my life in SA, except for occational month here and there, and love the slower pace of life here.

[@sthompson4049]

It pays to follow the correct path in all areas of our journeys .

[@gjsherr]

Alternate service by mail should include a copy of the summons and complaint sent RESTRICTED. This service is much more expensive that 1st Class, includes a return of service notice from the mail carrier. A RESTRICTED article must be signed for, either by the addressee or their agent. USPS will keep trying, and leave a pink slip so the article can be collected at their office. Once the article is delivered, that article is legally deemed to have been opened AND read by the addressee "at their peril". No other mail delivery offers that legal status.

[@stephentthomas]

I know someone who was sued by her late step father's other children to recover funds that were used to help cover her college tuition prior to his death. The process server claimed her attorney was served. No one showed for court so the judgement was made. She LEARNED about it much later when her tax return was intercepted. She did not even HAVE an attorney. So no one was ever truly served. She AND HER NEW HUSBAND had to doctor their tax withholdings on the front side for years to delay full payment of the judgement and stretch it out over several years. The amount was also much higher than what was originally gifted. So, in the end, she paid for only half of the portion of her tuition not covered by scholarship, then - over several years - paid for over 3 years worth of FULL no-scholarship tuition. It was FIFTEEN TIMES the amount gifted.

[@oinkoink870]

Having had a crooked prosecutor wanting into my banking records. An Investigator whom we had previously hired tried to serve papers on my dad, at one point one of the doors of the apartment house opened, the Investigator/ server threw papers that bounced off the bricks and hit a guy . The crooked investigator exclaimed "He's served. That was the start of his problems because earlier he had been getting money from city of R.R. at same time we hired him (he knew). The city court didn't appreciate me on behalf of my dad, claiming not served. The other problem they then couldn't get to me. I was trailed and crooked lady nextdoor to apartmentswould call them. I was house sitting for someone that winter. My Dad who had "been served" had died 8 years previously. Prosecutor was upset at loosing law license for four years after having my church pastor jailed on made-up false evidence. She then hired to work for city my old house is in during those same 4years.

[@oinkoink870]

Prosecutor used criminals to cause problems for people! She used her position, n dug up dirt on almost anyone so she could have her thumb on them . She JUST GOT FIRED !!!!!!!!! It shouldn't end there. IRS etc etc.

[@bill2489]

The term is “sewer service” for papers that are never served, but sworn that they were. In New York City, there was a similar problem to the Detroit situation, where in landlord tenant court, a heavy volume process server did not actually serve the papers and landlords would get default judgments and evictions. As a result, thousands of judgments were vacated. And now a process server must take a picture of the address he served and submit that with the metadata from the picture as part of the affidavit of service.

[@apegues]

This happened to me and I was living here in the States, I only found out about it when it showed up on my credit report. It was for $600 and my attorney suggested that I dispute it with the Credit reporting agencies because it would cost more to deal with it using my attorney.

[@jeremyashford2145]

I have had sign-for parcels left at the house when the courier has signed on my behalf, without permission.

[@luvverboy93]

I have a bunch of medical debt. Most of my medical debt has gone to collections. I have gotten "served" by mail, with no court date on the paper fallowed by a default judgment showing up the next day fallowed by a bank notice 2 days later saying my account has a lean on it. And I have been served in person for a separate bill also with no court date. They said I would be contacted with the court date and information but that was over 6 months ago. I've also received letters from law firms saying that I have a default judgment for other medical bill even though I've received no notice at all. Very corrupt system.

[@josephmazzeo9413]

Interesting...I've heard of this type of incident before...years ago I got sued by a credit card company (I am in NYC)....one day when I came home I found the summons/complaint taped to my front door, as well as 2 copies mailed to me, one certified...at first I thought I was not properly served but after checking with an attorney yes I was properly served....it doesn't have to be in person with a process server. It does seem kind of unfair the guy was out of the country I guess that is not an excuse, but then the attorney screwed up there too by dishonestly "flash serving" so many at once at the same exact time. What's interesting is that they could serve a recently deceased person, and when they are discovered dead weeks later their estate could have a default judgment against them!

[@atticstattic]

_Lehto's Law: Are You Being Alternately Served?_

[@murraystewartj]

Loved that show.

[@cholesterol6703]

"Ground floor: lawsuits galore, wigs and haberdashery, ..."

[@denisrhodes54]

Mr. Humphries: I’m Free!

[@bohemoth1]

Service via the Newspaper in the Legal Section.

[@Elldallan]

A fraudulent filed proof of service should be an automatic dismissal with prejudice. Then the plaintiff can sue whoever forged the proof of service for whatever damages they were seeking in the complaint.

[@Dr.M.VincentCurley]

When I was teaching at Master's Institute in San Jose in 2001, I got a offer to teach in Long Beach through Anderson Consulting, but only for a week. During that week, apparently, I was "Served". A process server had broken into a secure building where my office was and shoved the papers under my door while I was gone for that week. What are the limitations for process servers to break the law in such cases? It took the full 90 days for Anderson Consulting to pay me by the way, I don't suggest working for them.

[@ffggddss]

@Theodore Misc *It's Fred

[@HealingSwordsman]

Based on the comments this seems to happen a lot? This is scary... i am definetly losing faith in our justice systems.

[@C.O._Jones]

The same thing happened to me. I saw there had been a summary judgment against me for not showing up to court when I had never been served. I never did anything about it because there are zero assets in my name, so there’s nothing anyone can ever collect. Haven’t officially heard anything about it, ever. The suit was BS, anyway.

[@2Jeezuzisreal]

It's as if the courts hardly care and the penalty is not hard enough. Forging is like stealing my most personal posession. These public officials should go to jail like any thief.

[@JTBlotzer]

I had a similar situation one time that had a different resolution. In 2007 a debt collector had sued me for an old credit card debt in Pennsylvania (where I lived at the time I incurred the debt). In 2007 I was living in Georgia so naturally they were unable to serve me. Over a period of about two weeks, I received a few voicemails from an attorney stating that he was serving me by phone since I had the same cell phone number. After 2 or 3 months I received another voicemail from the same attorney stating that he had received a default judgment for the amount owed. This was in August or September 2007. The problem was I had been in Iraq since January 2007 and didn't get the voicemails until I returned from Iraq in April 2008 (Verizon's cell service didn't extend to Iraq). I called the attorney, he said he would have the judgement set aside (The Servicemembers Civil Relief Act barred the lawsuit). I don't know if he actually had the judgement aside but we worked out a payment arrangement and that was the end of it.

[@everettsykes1774]

This happened to my cousin. His attorney told him that he should fill out a certificate of domicile with new address. That way if any processes are served to old address it puts the ball in their court and it's on them for not doing due diligence .

[@fredricunderhill204]

This is closer to routine in collections than you might think. In the 2008 crash, the M.E.R.S. procedures encouraged banks to destroy original documents and work only with electronic images. This caused 10s of thousands of people to be foreclosed even though they never knew there actions against them. Hence now you sign documents in blue or colors.

[@InuKun2008]

Yeah, in Virginia the plaintiff can ask for a private process server, but typically they'll simply do a copy of the Uniform Summons by first class mail, in addition to having a sheriff deputy (as it's only $10) deliver a copy of the summons at least 30 days prior to the initial court date (typically it is 60 days before hand that the court will give the summons to the plaintiff or their attorney to mail). I only ever saw a private process server once, and that was when I worked at a local UPS Store where I lived several years ago. Someone who had a mailbox with our store (but was behind in payments as the mailbox had the plastic shield in place behind the door to stop them getting their mail), was being sued. But UPS Store policy said that unless we were given a court order to disclose who the assignee of a given mailbox was, we could not disclose who had a given box.

[@fermitupoupon1754]

In my country the only people who can serve court papers are court agents under oath. These people are court employees, their background checks were done by the national intelligence services. If some yokel came up to my door and said "you've been served" without wearing the proper uniform, without showing ID etc. I'll call the cops and we'll see who ends up in court. These court agents have to be under oath while they serve papers or their testimony that they did in fact serve papers will be worthless in court.

[@666mandrake]

The thing that happened to me is I signed up to a dating app, eharmony and they had these Terms and conditions where the renewal of the membership is automatic. I was not aware of this because I never read the fine prints, obviously. Long story short, they said I was not eligible for a refund of the 1 year membership renewal ( 400 dollars) and that they would only refund half because of how nice they are. The credit card company (mastercard) informed me that I was totally responsible ( obviously) and that even if I close my account and get rid of paypal... It was still possible for eharmony to have access to my account. Unless I can prove that I have discontinued my membership. Which by the way, is very hard to do because they dont want to cancel your membership. Still, the guy at the credit card company told me that if I send proof of the offer for a half refund, it would be sufficient to protect me. So, be careful around dating app, some of them are thieves that hide behind fine prints to get you into a long membership that you would not agree to otherwise. Even if you read the fine prints, you would need to sue them in order to get your 400 dollars back, who does this? The credit card company and paypal are way too eager to just take your money and give it to the dating company. They dont care if eharmony is following the terms of their own fine prints. So, you have very little protection.

[@craigstephen3216]

Had something similar happen to me. I was in Iraq at the time.

[@lyrapsi]

Wanted to thank you for doing this. Your videos are very informative and interesting.

[@stephenjacks8196]

My Ex and I were taken to Court and missed hearing. Opposing Lawyer said we were served but did not have a return of service affidavit (or receipt for certified letter). The Judge wasn't happy with our motion, but then became upset at the Lawyer for brazenly lying to him.

[@donloughrey1615]

In the '90s one of the cable tv companies (I forgot which one) got a judgment against me for $200 not returning the box (false) when canceling the service. The box was returned at the same time that my wife canceled in person on her lunch hour. The person told her to "just leave it here, I'll take care of it". We did not find out until a few years later while refinancing or house. The bank said pay the 200 or no refinance. We had no idea there was problem, it wasn't on our final bill either. Dirt bags probably counted on that it would cost a lot more to contest it. They won, but we saved thousands on interest.

[@jesse957]

The attorney or party needs to renew the CA judgment every 10 years in court by filing the correct forms to the court. If the judgment is not renewed, then the judgment is forever lost and gone.

[@rickpockrandt8237]

It’s true of the statement… “the process is the punishment!” It is just so frustrating to be dragged into court, the costs, the time, the frustration, the depression,… being dragged before elitists and opportunists…, ever see an overworked court appointed do anything more than cross the T’s and dot the I’s for you?

[@dashcamandy2242]

Similar problem ongoing in CT. I won't mention his (Shiff) name, or the fact he has multiple complaints with the Bar (improper service/failure to serve, harassment of Defendants in their workplaces, stealing thousands of dollars of Defendants' money through two methods: continuing to take automatic payments far beyond the judgment or accepting a one-time payment to satisfy a debt and then charging multiple times a month in addition). I've been a victim twice (non-service with the subsequent default judgment), my mother once (same thing), and my mother's boyfriend has dealt with the harassing workplace phone calls, taking automatic payments far beyond the full debt, and on FIVE separate occasions the attorney who **isn't named** Shiff has drained his checking account below $40 on his payday after all debts had been paid in full. Mom and her boyfriend had to run down to the ATM as soon as his paychecks and military pension were direct-deposited because it would ALL be gone at precisely 8:01 AM every time. Some of these debts were in the same name, but a completely different person (decades of age difference and completely different SSN on the account) but due to the default judgments on cases he knew nothing about, he was legally required to pay them, plus interest, late fees, attorney's fees - even paying for the Marshal to serve him, and when the Marshal was asked on the phone about one case, he said he had no knowledge or record of that particular case, but he got paid for it, and we should take it up with the lawyer if we had a problem with being charged for service two years after the debt was paid in full! When you call the attorney, you get the receptionist, who rudely informs you that she cannot discuss confidential matters with external parties. She cannot tell us the debtor, the date of the court case, NOTHING, despite the fact my mother's boyfriend is the one asking about the cases he is directly involved with. It got so bad with this lawyer, Navy Federal Credit Union has multiple fraud investigations ongoing, and even after closing one account and opening another one in the same Credit Union didn't help because "somehow" the attorney (I won't mention Shiff's name, I swear!) managed to get the new account number and began stealing more money. We finally hit the breaking point and opened an account in another bank, and magically there has been no problem since - aside from threats of further litigation, until we retained an attorney and threatened him with a substantial lawsuit for all the money he stole, all the cases we paid for that weren't our debts, and offered to provide television interviews with ALL the local media.