Case OVER: Attorney Spots New Font on "Old" Document

[@nonyadamnbusiness9887]

So entering false evidence to a court should get prison time, every time. The way fraud is ignored by the courts in this country is disgusting. The judge should have had the son taken into custody for fraud.

[@douginorlando6260]

Some criminal acts are also used by the elite. That makes establishing a pattern of prosecuting that kind of crime problematic. Same reason it’s illegal to record phone calls without approval

[@schweizerbananen]

In Switzerland the court would have to proove, that the son made the document. It is only a fact, that the document is a fraud, but its unsecure who made it. So ....

[@ninjafroggie1]

@@douginorlando6260 that depends on the state...some states have 2 party laws, where its illegal to record someone without their knowledge, and other states do not have such laws and it's perfectly legal to record calls so long as at least one participant knows its being recorded

[@sx5r]

Oh well, with the court case and falsified evidence the son made damn sure to be written out of the will. And now the mom already has a lawyer to make absolutely sure the will is ironclad. that is quite some punishment (even though I totally agree that that falsifying evidence is disgusting and should be punished)

[@angrysloth]

we wouldn't have a single prosecutor left in america.

[@SCFoster]

My wife was a font designer. She's my secret weapon in these cases. She can spot small changes in a document in seconds with a quick scan. You would be surprised how often this happens. PDF's are NOT secure. They can be easily modified, even if they are "secured". It's the whole reason I came up with a hash methodology that is now part of Docusign.

[@petergaskin1811]

Arial - Calibri - Aptos.

[@okcquilter]

I wonder what she thought about BHO's birth cert?

[@SCFoster]

@@okcquilter Actually, within an hour of it being posted on the White House site, I downloaded it and sent it to her. It was obviously a forgery and a bad one at that. Whomever posted it failed to flatten the layers, so it was a few key click to expose the layers, showing how there was a base document had pixels deleted and then layers of text added. I don't know enough to opine on the subject as a whole. But, that document was a forgery. Probably posted by some idiot staffer.

[@billpugh58]

@@okcquilteroh don’t worry, you all “know” he was born in, where is it you all say now? Nigeria? Yemen? China? 😂

[@ToxiCom-777]

​@@okcquilter I looked at Barack's birth-cert hi-res scan. What I saw was absolutely manufactured. One font was overlaid like paint, and some of the letters/words appeared in that font. The other font was ink that had soaked into the paper fibers; this was the original print on original document. The hard-edge where the two abutted so stunningly proved the sham; it proved modification / alteration... Imagine if They can get away with that, imagine what's really been going on.

[@DustinDawind]

When I was in college I did a summer internship with a company that worked on divorce cases. The one day I completed and printed out a document that they requested and my supervisor was like oh sorry, I need you to reprint this. You used the wrong font. Turned out the company had commissioned a proprietary font to be designed for them. And any documents they produced would be in that font so that if anyone ever tried to claim they had one of the company's documents it would be obvious to them if that was not true.

[@Caderic]

I'm taking notes! No on! LOL Seriously, I am making a mental note.

[@curtisa3069]

I created from scratch my own font once. It's a bit eccentric. Now I think it may be useful if I wish to create a document or contract that can't be altered.

[@VC-Toronto]

A company I worked for licensed an unusual font to "differentiate" ourselves, but after running into problems with emails (especially when sending to others) and other various word processing systems that didn't have the font set installed, the custom font was limited to our mainframe printed documents, everything else was defaulted to a Microsoft compatible font that all Microsoft programs would recognize.

[@mmoarchives2542]

smart company, illinois?

[@Girlgamssilver]

Wise move.

[@swatkins9391]

Attempting to pass off phony docs in court should, at the very least, be perjury worth a minimum of 30 days in jail.

[@izyb6608]

it is

[@Faretheewell608]

@@izyb6608should be a felony - it is forgery

[@Marcoose81]

That's always the solution in youTube comments: more jail

[@lnsflare1]

​@@Marcoose81What do you think the appropriate punishment would be for trying to commit fraud (or worse) against the opposing party by submitting falsified evidence? What do you think should be done if someone was trying to use forged documents to trick the court into forcing *you* to pay over $600,000.00?

[@jesusnthedaisychain]

But like he said, it's unknown if the son fabricated the document or it was fabricated and presented to him. He could realistically claim that he wasn't aware that the document had been phony. Perjury is when it is shown that you knowingly lied. Do I think he was a scumbag liar who was trying to submit false evidence in order to strongarm his elderly widowed mother into giving him money? Absolutely. Can I prove it to the satisfaction of a court? Not at all.

[@redram5150]

“What do you mean my Gutenberg Bible isn’t genuine!” “Sir, it’s printed in Comic Sans”

[@RealPackCat]

or sanscrit

[@redram5150]

@@RealPackCat Sanskrit predates the Bible. Comic Sans wasn’t invented until the 20th century, making its use impossible for Gutenberg during the 15th century

[@TheKatxu]

​@@redram5150I was thinking about comic sans too! 😂

[@jensschakies1414]

one: "It's the original bible!" other: "How do you know?" one: "It's Klingon!"

[@leahdavis-hemphill3959]

🤣🤣

[@jayeff2]

If they produce false documents, then lie under oath, they should spend some time in jail.

[@Rhaspun]

Yes. At least contempt of court.

[@chickensmack]

As a graphic artist, in the 90's, I spent much of my time recreating digital company logos. This was the early days of digital graphics so many companies had only printed versions of their logos. You can imagine how much time I spent trying to figure out which fonts were being used. It bled out into my daily life. When looking at billboards and about any add that passed before me, I couldn't help but call out the fonts being used. It made my wife crazy. This case is where I would have found my purpose. LOL

[@Spaceystace]

My husband tells me about food packaging. I even get show and tell in the grocery aisle. He writes code for manufacturing machines and robots.

[@KarmaKoming]

My favorite... "I sent you a PDF with our logo on it... just use that one"... lol

[@1893Mauser]

Reminds me of a story of a guy pointing out something on tv so often his wife got him a bell to ding every time he saw it so she wouldn't have to hear him

[@grafikschwarzmarkt]

i feel you SO much, same here in 🇨🇭

[@BobWiersema]

@@KarmaKomingThe best is I sent you a jpeg of the logo from my phone. Sure I'll use that. Your new label will have a blob on it.

[@captainsensiblejr.]

Archivist here. The field of verifying the authenticity of documents based on the document content and the paper it is written upon is called "DIPLOMATICS".

[@williamwallace9826]

What a great story. The attorney for the mother deserves a HUGE round of applause for catching that little goof by the unscrupulous son. As a long-time desktop publisher, I am aware of the difference font choices can make in a document. I also know that there are so many fonts available to modern computer users that it can be difficult to figure out exactly what font was used. For that attorney to have spotted that it was Calibri and not Arial, and to have realized that Calibri was not available in 2000, was extraordinary. The mother was extremely fortunate to have had such a good attorney.

[@john_in_phoenix]

It does tell you that the attorney has actually spent time creating documents on a computer, rather than having his secretary type up ALL of them. That is indeed a good attorney.

[@Cheepchipsable]

LOL, do you understand the case. The son was arguing the he loaned them money - the mother admitted in court it was a loan and the dispute is over when the loan was to be repaid. The guy will now have to wait until she dies. The son made the mistake of not getting the agreement in writing, probably because it was his parents and he trusted them.

[@Dallen9]

He might of known about the Times New roman/Calibri issue from his days in collage(or general schooling), If you formatted a Word Document in Times New Roman(which was the Old Word Default font) if a document was printed in a newer word program (2007 and later) it automatically switches the font to Calibri if you don't open the Word document as a word 2003 document.

[@jamessimms415]

I produce a monthly newsletter for a local historical group that involves a large amount of pre-produced information. I’m constantly having to change from Calibri 10 pt. to Times New Roman 12 Pt. in Publisher, even though the pre-produced information is Times New Roman in 12 pt. Plus I’m always having to uncheck Bold & Underline, AND ensure the line spacing is 1 space for consistency. I’ve done it for so long, I can almost always look @ what I’ve pasted into Publisher and tell if the 1 space line spacing isn’t right, usually 1.19 line spacing.

[@CognitiveHeatsink]

​@@Cheepchipsable I disagree. I think it's better stated that the parents made the mistake of not getting the agreement in writing because they trusted their son. The son had to have been a successful business man and better off than the parents to be able to give or loan that money.

[@briangarrow448]

I worked at a wastewater treatment facility for nearly 25 years and the standards for record keeping changed significantly over that period of time. We had plant records, state required records, federal records and other documents from that time frame. The discussion over appropriate fonts was one of those series of meetings that I had the misfortune to attend. I didn’t care, just make sure the document looks professional and is similar to what the other departments are doing. I learned far more information about fonts than I ever thought possible. Or needed to know. My version of hell is being stuck in an eternal meeting where fonts were being discussed.

[@kaboom4679]

The greatest productivity killer ever invented was " the meeting " .

[@famicomnintendo]

@@kaboom4679 🤣

[@alanturing8382]

Sarif or San sarif?

[@davecrupel2817]

So how about that "Times New Roman" sh¡t, eh?

[@BarafuAlbino]

@@alanturing8382 Sans for documents, because serifs blur and look dirty when printed on low quality paper with bad ink. Serifs for books because they form visual lines that help switching from line to line, and for hires screens.

[@gregorylewis8471]

50+ years ago I was asked to look at a document by a legal assistant while at a law firm doing service work on a copier. The document was supposedly done on a type writer in the late '50's and was in courier font. Surprisingly, the document was proportionally spaced. It couldn't have been produced on a typewriter in the '50's. I'll never forget the look on the face of the attorney when I explained proportional spacing!

[@nicholasvinen]

I thought courier is a monospaced font specifically so it looks like the output of a typewriter but I guess there could be a proportional version somewhere...

[@gregorylewis8471]

@@nicholasvinen Typesetters in the '70's had a way of kerning almost any font. We figured out that they must have used a typesetter, forerunner to graphics and word processors. Word processors in the '70's that had green screens usually had one fixed font but would compile a proportional font that the user would have to endlessly print to correct to finally get a usable document. The IBM Selectric had font balls and could tighten up 'i' & 'l' in Courier, but that was it. Bottom line, you were held hostage by whatever printed the document, making allowances in printing that today are just part of a font package.

[@Dallas_K]

Those reading this who are unaware should know that old typewriters mechanically spaced characters to fit within a designated space that was the same for all characters. The characters themselves were designed to fit that space either slightly wider or slightly narrower to best fill the space, unlike computer fonts that can vary the spacing proportionally for each character.

[@Dallas_K]

​@@gregorylewis8471 In the early 80s I used a Compugraphic Compuwriter 2 Jr., a 70s typesetting system that could kern but it was extra time and nuisance to set it up. I would do that to enhance justification visially to my satisfaction as the standard setting merely spaced the words on the subject line. The output was printed photographically on photo paper that was run through a developer tank and then dried, cut and physically pasted onto a layout for photographing to make a printing plate. My keylining ability was challenged in my vocational school printing class by an assignment requiring physically cutting and spacing words and characters to get the effect of full justification. I ended up getting higher marks when I decided to set my type in double size, 24 pt. rather than 12 pt., making for cleaner cuts and manipulation, and then reducing the end product photographically at 50%. I took to the repro camera a month before my classmates. I was given an incredible amount of liberty by my teacher. Today I still do some old-style tweaking where my critical eye finds fault with computer results.

[@kevinfreeman3098]

This is all rookie stuff in my eyes, I once worked out of a "California job case" drawers of type cast the was set by the individual character, I can space a letter, a word, a sentence, a line or a whole document, I could also match the ink and font, also the impression of the type doesn't show up on computers now a days, you need to actually have pressure to leave those type of indicators. Never knew I could have a future in recreating(duplicating/forging) documents or in analizing them, time to update the resume, document examiner, that sounds like a squinty type job...

[@silverXnoise]

The takeaway here is that one does not necessarily need to be a typographic expert, but rather should cultivate and nourish a robust ability to think critically.

[@chipcook5346]

So then, no hope for today's kids....

[@zburnham]

@@chipcook5346 Not if they got educated anywhere south of New Jersey.

[@csickpuppy]

I’ll take “someone who won’t be in the mother’s will for a thousand Alex”

[@robertm5969]

Probably wasn't in there to start

[@katiekane5247]

😂

[@grugnotice7746]

The apparent purpose of the exercise was to spend his inheritance before she died, hence the lawsuit.

[@Cheepchipsable]

Won't matter, since the Mother agreed in court the son was to be repaid after their death. Too bad we are not getting more background here, chances are the parents have nothing, Mum has sold the house and is pissing away the funds. Personally I think the son did loan them the money but the parents decided it was a gift. Always get agreements in writing, even if just confirmed through emails.

[@thejnelson88]

@@Cheepchipsable This comment exactly!

[@weege5.45]

What a great way to get yourself written out of a will.

[@grugnotice7746]

Sounds like that was already happening, but by spending his inheritance before she died, which is probably why he was suing her.

[@LarryH49]

She should alter her will to leave her son exactly the amount of the loan. The residual of the estate should be left to other children or to a good charity.

[@JesusKreist]

The son most likely sued because he was already written out of the will to begin with. Either that or he already had spent the inheritance he was expecting banking on the fact that his mother will soon die as well. Personally or invested in his after Covid struggling company (companies?) and he needed the money *NOW* .

[@weege5.45]

@@JesusKreist Maybe he should have used JG Wentworth. He needed *his* money NOW.

[@mrcoldshower2823]

@@LarryH49 minus legal & court costs 🤣😂😅

[@maxium4x4]

I gave my lawyer the Golden ticket on a land survey during my Divorce, he almost cried for joy. I never throw documents away and it answered everyone's question. The surveyor had made a foot note pertaining to the origin in the document, Bingo! That little footnote 24 years later, came in handy.

[@GuzziHeroV50]

What a brilliant realisation by that attorney. They deserve every penny of their fees for this case. Outstanding work.

[@DecibelDr]

Indeed good work. Note however that the mother (assuming she is right in this case) immediately knew when this document turned up that it must be fake. Therefore it would be logical to investigate the document on evidence of that.

[@robertcola2573]

I can't even imagine suing my parents over anything. Nor would I even consider charging my parents interest. I am constantly reminded how great my family is when I see stuff like this.

[@Cheepchipsable]

It's a lot of money. Maybe the parents couldn't get finance and the son took a huge risk. Either way get everything in writing. Though the other pertinent question is, could you afford to loan anyone $200k? I think your perception would change if it was your money.

[@robertcola2573]

@Cheepchipsable maybe but unlikely. I owe all my success in life to the lessons I learned from them, if my parents needed money I would drain my accounts without a thought. When I bought my house they didn't think my down was big enough so they just up and told me to check my account one day. I sold that house after 10 years and they refused to accept the money back they gave me for a down. I am not rich by any measure, but 17 years in the military has done well for me.

[@Rickettsia505]

I have been telling my mom to "die broke", to spend all her money, live a full happy life, and do whatever she wants with her money. I'm one of a lot of kids, and, with one exception, we are hardworking and independent. Adult children should not be looking for parental handouts. I'm sorry that mom has a snake for a son.

[@mememe332]

I have a thought for the son, he can' t be bad after lending his parents that sum all those years ago. I too would have been miffed if my dad ha died, mum sold up didn't tell me and didn't mention anything. A new man could have entered the mothers life. She could have used the old property equity and be using the son's money to live an extravagant life, there are all sorts of possible outcomes. But he gave both his parents a large sum, dad died, 20 yrs later mum sold up didn't tell him and made no mention of payi g hi back. I don't believe it was gifted i the first place, I think it was a verbal loan and the mother abused the agreement. He unfortunately got desperate and faked the document.

[@blshouse]

@@mememe332 Well, the part where he demands interest in excess of the initial principal, plus triple damages makes me doubt the son was anything but an aspiring loan shark looking to grift his parents. The fact that he created a false document in order to get a court to force his mother to pay reinforces my opinion.

[@markstevens1729]

As a graphic designer who has used Adobe Illustrator and all other computer/software typeset tools since their advent in the 80’s, I approve of this story’s ability to make me smile.

[@mailman63155]

Indeed. Legal documents are not the purview of graphic designers and typically are Times New Roman with default leading/kerning.

[@juancastellon7183]

@@mailman63155 depending on the law firm and the age of the documents. Older documents would be in Courier, and going back further it would be in Pica or Elite. Newer documents would be in Cambria.

[@mlconley]

Times New Roman for ever!

[@xhogun8578]

Me too,think it's great that the font was picked up. I used to do desktop publishing and was a proofreader.

[@Roccondil]

Arial is another common one that I remember always having to change from.

[@janhoelterling4320]

I am surprised "that's it"? Shouldn't there be an additional charge, for fraud, perjury or something else for "attempting to deceive/defraud"?

[@MistDaemon]

Unfortunately, due to personal experience, courts don't seem to like to charge people with perjury even when it can be proven. A family member submitted a petition to the court with claims which conflicted with a handwritten letter, as well as other false claims, but no one would do anything about it.

[@johnsmithers8913]

​@@MistDaemon Yeah, it's one of those laws that are only applied on certain people. I doubt it is ever used on women in divorce court when they claim their husbands do this or that falsely. It's too bad. If perjury was strictly enforced I bet most trials would be wrapped up more quickly and many frivolous cases wouldn't even be attempted.

[@MrTeff999]

Do you think the son was written out of his mother’s will?

[@adamglover6948]

​@@MrTeff999 Hard to imagine otherwise.

[@jimschaefer7827]

@@MrTeff999, I’m pretty sure he won’t be invited to go camping with his mom! 😂

[@floridadad2817]

Steve, this almost exact same thing happened to me and I BUSTED them. I was living in Indiana and had a joint venture investment on a rental property with a lady from Chicago. She tried claiming years later that she was a lender, not a member of a JV, and that I had failed to pay her 25% interest per year as a "lender." Well before she sued me, she sent the documents to me electronically. I hired a forensic engineering firm to evaluate the two documents and found that she fraudulently created the mortgage docs 7 years after I allegedly signed them. Her $180,000k demand ended in mediation where I bought out her interest in the property for $12,000.

[@DAPalomares]

This reminds me of a story of a contract that was submitted into evidence, signed with a gel pen, but the gel pen wasn't invented when the document was signed.

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

It reminds me of an Archie Comics story where Archie and Reggie try to trick Jughead with a fake map to "pirate treasure." Jughead goes searching and comes back with a gold coin. Archie and Reggie run off to search for treasure in the place they sent Jughead to. In the mean time, Betty looks at the coin and then says to Jughead that pirates didn't have machine minted coins. Jughead replies that they also didn't write maps using ball point pens.

[@ColonelSandersLite]

A family member had someone try something kinda like that in a legal dispute some time ago. There was a fairly thick contract, the last page of which was signed. Only thing is, the font used on that signed last page and the rest of the document very obviously didn't match. I don't remember which was which but one was a serif font and the other was a sans-serif font. Once that was pointed out, the other party very quickly settled.

[@suedenim9208]

I remember reading about a case (involving donations received by a church, IIRC) where a notebook with the records turned out to have been produced after some of the dates listed. That's why used what I learned in the boy scouts and went out and bought a bunch of pens, notebooks, tarps, duct tape, and trash bags at widely scatter stores a long, long time ago. You never know when you're going to need something old and/or untraceable.

[@gutenbird]

So you don’t believe gel pens can time travel?

[@ColonelSandersLite]

@@gutenbird It kinda works on terminator rules. The pen can but the gel can't.

[@ColinWatters]

I once found a smoking gun document although it wasn't in a court case. I had spent over a year and at least £10,000 trying to get permission to build a house. Every proposed design I submitted the council refused saying my proposal was "too big". Then I discovered a letter they had sent to the previous owner of the land which stated that "a bigger house might be better". At the next meeting they again refused my proposal so I took great delight in pulling that letter from my pocket :-)

[@kameljoe21]

You got the bigger house?! I am so glad my town is so small that we can not afford to have people complain about what we do. We can build what ever we want where ever we want on our land. We very well intend to do so.

[@ColinWatters]

@@kameljoe21 Well bigger by UK standards. We have pretty tough rules here.

[@AWellesley]

The UK has the smallest houses in Europe. Most new builds are tiny rabbit hutches, with minimal/zero outside space, that wouldn’t be considered fit for human habitation in other western countries.

[@christinebeames712]

Oh how sweet that must have been,x

[@ColinWatters]

@@christinebeames712 When I first discovered the letter I was so mad at the waste of time and money I might have punched the planning officer if he had been there. Good job I had time to cool off :-)

[@TheEMC99]

That's so embarrassing. It's going to follow him forever in his personal life and career. Everyone now knows the lengths he's willing to go to and worse... against his own mother. Absolutely despicable.

[@phillipmalkin1169]

You have to love it when a lie and a cheat get found out as this scuzz bag did. But even more why did his so called lawyer not check that gicumeny was real and genuine article either he was in on the scam or he wasn’t carrying out due diligence. But mother never 👎 has to pay that son a dime but what d sad pet of son we ould go ghat to his mother a bad one ☝️

[@RealPackCat]

The sad part is, he was probably telling the truth in that it was a loan, but he made it easy for the judge to rule against him.

[@Merrsharr]

He probably got written out of the will too

[@philiplubduck6107]

I can understand both sides. $110,000 is a lot of money. Unless this guy is rich (has at least a million dollar home) then I don’t get him just “giving” his parents money. Maybe a few thousand to cover a few months of payments. Maybe even $15,000 as a gift to fix the roof or furnace etc. Otherwise I think he thought it would be paid back when able. I’m guessing the parents are retired and if she moved to a cheaper home then she should have paid him back. If she moved tow similar prices home then I see she can’t cover that. I’d like more info first. But to the false evidence and such is going way overboard. Maybe he has bills due NOW and was trying to get back his money. Even in a pretty crappy investment portfolio that $110 would be worth close to $250,000 so this guy is out of a lot of money. Maybe the mom is getting remarried or dating and has “new kids” that are put on the will. Idk.

[@ba.diecast24]

Even if written out of the will the mother admitted under oath to agreeing to pay the money back upon both of their deaths, making that a valid oral contract. So in the will or not he can collect that debt upon her death

[@chrismccarthy1455]

Our client was an engineer. If he bought a stick of gum, it was noted in his Day-Timer.. He referred to those entries in the witness box when examined in chief as well as cross. The other side got up, and I noticed that the woman was looking down into her lap when answering questions in chief. I brought that to the attention of the Court, and it was revealed that she was looking at her "notes" to refresh her memory, much as our guy had. But...rather than being made contemporaneously, she revealed that the "notes" in the duo-tang folder were made the week prior in her counsel's office. The folder was taken away, and she couldn't answer a single question. Counsel asked for a break, we went outside and resolved in our guy's favour.

[@justinkaufman495]

She needed notes to remember what she was supposed to say? Feels like she could have memorized those.

[@JonFoster48386]

Interesting story/case. I'm an old typesetter from the early to mid 1980's. And yes, typesetting was still a thing in those years but it was for customized work in most cases. One of my employers, the Dearborn Board of Education had a few unique items we printed under controlled circumstances. Back then printing was still a high end skill. Fonts like Times New Roman was a long standing standard but my personal favorite was Helvetica. Things like that really stood out. Every time I hold a document now my first impression is how cheap and low quality the print job is. Gone are the days of good quality cotton bond paper and inks that had unique smells. We could identify the manufacturer by smell alone most of the time. A quick double flick of the wrist told you the bond weight of the paper you were holding. I would be interested to know the background of the lawyer who identified the false document in this story. I'd wager he is older and has a good amount of experience.

[@davidrush4908]

When I was a kid the local newspaper office farmed out printing the weekly paper but still did small batch custom jobs on site. I remember seeing the typesetting machine and the smell of the inks. That and the guy that did it all wore the stereotypical arm garters. Now they format everything on computer and send it out.

[@dashcamandy2242]

In school, I preferred the use of Helvetica or Times New Roman. Those fonts looked great whether you used dot-matrix, inkjet, or laser printers.

[@CognitiveHeatsink]

​@chuck 8094 sadly that's still the standard these days.

[@CognitiveHeatsink]

I bet the lawyer is older and more experienced, but even for a younger lawyer when you deal with enough documents you notice a distinct difference between older and newer documents. Not just the fonts, but how they look and feel. Just as you stated regarding typeset prints versus the prints of today.

[@theoriginalchefboyoboy6025]

Sherlock Holmes wants to be your pen pal...

[@ReiHost]

The moment I saw the title, I knew the font in question would be Calibri. It was kind of a big deal when Microsoft made it the default font in Office software, since many style guides required Times New Roman for college work. Users had to switch to Times New Roman manually, if they noticed it at all.

[@Ausecko1]

yeah exactly, it's so well known I don't know how it could still be a news story - like the big Pakistani corruption case where they used the wrong font, I don't read the news and even I knew this was a thing

[@JohnDough-p6x]

Thanks for suddenly making me feel really old

[@JohnDough-p6x]

Back in MY day, we wrote in Cursive on paper or used a typewriter

[@dexterpoindexter3583]

​@@JohnDough-p6x Should we tell 'em about whiteout for errors, carbon paper, and Gestetner machines for making copies? 😸

[@simon6071]

Reminds me of the anomalies found on Obama's long form birth certificate.

[@cleanwillie1307]

For those of us who remember 20 years ago or so, this exact same thing precipitated the end of Dan Rather's career as a newsman.

[@clarkelliott5389]

I remember!

[@abigalanderson7494]

Every newsman is a paid actor reading a script

[@madmaximilian5783]

@Clean Willie• there was a similar document dispute against Steve Jobs awhile ago, a guy tried to introduce a fake document and he lost big time.

[@mahbriggs]

Yes! You beat me to it!

[@NSResponder]

Sorry to nit-pick, but Rather was never a newsman. He was always a scumbag lefturd propaganda peddler, but he was pretty good at hiding it until the Killian documents scandal.

[@teg24601]

Fonts were the reason Dan Rather was ousted from CBS, after his exposé on GWB, used documents that were written using Times New Roman, rather than actual typewriter typesets available at the time.

[@zappababe8577]

Yet another reason to hate Times New Roman. I'm a retired secretary and I always hated seeing it. It meant someone didn't have the imagination or even the thought to change the font from the old default setting on Word. Plus it's just ugly, the kerning is off and the letters don't line up nicely in tables. Give me Verdana or Helvetica anyday.

[@stephenarbon2227]

@@zappababe8577 I don't particularly like Times Roman, but if the kerning etc is off, it is not the fault of the font, but the software being used. It was designed for the Times newspaper, specifically for legibility and compactness in text, and for that, it does quite well. Helvetica was designed in the 50's to give a 'modern' clean look in posters. It is probably the least legible san-serif font there is for text smaller than 14pt.

[@tduenchan]

Yes and New Times Roman has proportional spacing…something that wasn’t readily available unless you had a professional typesetter working for you.

[@MrSheckstr]

I came here to comment about that story…… it was the birth of the “even though the evidence has been proven false, doesn’t mean that the story isn’t true”

[@sunriseboy4837]

@@zappababe8577 It's great to hear another pedantic, obsessive-compulsive vigilante on the track! I always had to use TNR submitting documents to editors, and I thought it was 'sort of' OK; but yeah, V or H are great!

[@catf8781]

This is why teams do better on every project. All it took was one team member that took a graphics art course, or has a passion for fonts to see the flaw. Don't let anyone tell you that spending time on hobbies instead of studying for law school is a waste of time.

[@hightttech]

Absolutely!

[@burke615]

Yeah, but when you’re committing a crime, it’s probably better to keep to a minimum the number of people who know about the crime. Or you could just not commit a crime, I guess.

[@mattstorm360]

Sometimes it's not the words that matter, but the way the words were written.

[@bmacaulay18]

True professional criminals are few and far between. Rookies are everywhere, and also the one who get caught 99% of the time. It's really the difference between a quaterback in grade school and Tom Brady. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[@nacoran]

And why it's useful do have people on that team with diverse backgrounds. How many companies have made a stupid public statement that they didn't mean to be racist or sexist, or that just is taken differently for some reason.... A stupid example... there was an old show called Herman's Head. Herman got sued for breaking a woman's rib giving her the Heimlich Maneuver. Problem is, the show was set in NY and NY has (and has had for many, many years) a good Samaritan law to protect people who are rendering aid from lawsuits. The show resolves the suit when the woman jokes again and he saves her again and she has a change of heart, but on the show it got way past the point where I lawyer would have spotted it. Law & Order had a problem where the whole mystery was solved because the person said 'Albany' wrong, with a sharp A. The criminal said she was from Albany but said it wrong. It was this big reveal later in the episode... but again, the show is set in NY. It was supposed to show that the lawyer was clever to spot it, but anyone living in NY would have spotted it. (I spot the NY ones because I'm from NY, but I'm sure there are ones for other regions too.) Good reason to have people with different degrees, ethnicities, religions, economic backgrounds, tastes... like you said, one person with a graphic arts course and you catch that mistake.

[@mikebarushok5361]

I saw something similar to this happen with a medical malpractice case. The hospital tried to cover up for the medical providers involved by forging an ECG (among other documents). The original document "couldn't be found" and only a photocopy was provided in the discovery phase. ECG photocopy had barely visible Wite-Out at patient's name, but blatantly had the hospitals new name and logo. Case was decided for the plaintiff, but a separate case was also filled against the hospital which was also decided for the plaintiff and for a much larger amount.

[@esteban1487]

Perjury? Fraud? Charges?

[@dark_winter8238]

My thoughts exactly

[@c-qc-q2021]

Certainly jail time. Waaay beyond, no harm - no foul. Else the son and attorney will do it again or worse the next time.

[@mrcryptozoic817]

And shouldn't the attempt to enter a forgery into evidence be a criminal offense, in itself?

[@cdreid9999]

they never seem to do that unfortunately

[@probablynotmyname8521]

Civil case, will probably adverse costs awarded but it wont go further than that. No one really cares about perjury in civil cases.

[@Justin.Franks]

This reminds me of a case in NC where a friend of mine was the plaintiff (McRae v. Curtis, 2019CVS8163). The defendant falsified multiple documents. One was a lease agreement with a false signature. And two others were discovered because two documents, both credit card statement submitted electronically as a PDF, had (invisible) edit tags in the markup language around the information that was in question (the defendant's address). The issuing bank was subpoenaed for the original statements, which they provided, and the defendant's address did not match the statements submitted to the court by the defendant. Even better, one of those statements was for August 2019, and the issuing bank informed the plaintiff that the account wasn't even opened until October 2019. The defendant ended up with an arrest warrant for contempt of court.

[@tedmoss]

Oops!

[@Yerocco]

That was what, Greensboro a couple years ago?

[@Justin.Franks]

@@Yerocco Yup, that's the one.

[@Yerocco]

@@Justin.Franks I don’t live too far from it but I remember vaguely the details after reading the description. I’d have to look into the case to see all what happened in detail but I do remember there being an issue with a date on getting something signed. I think that’s where the fake documents you mentioned came from at a later point. Dang. Small world.

[@OmnipotentEntity]

Cool story. You mentioned at the end that if the son were a little wiser to technology he might have gotten away with it. To assuage your fears and perhaps give you another tool in your toolbox you might find it interesting to learn that almost all computer printers manufactured in the last 40 or so years have microdots of ink that identify the serial number and model of printer using manufacturing specific codes, it's known as the MIC or Machine Identification Code. For some reason, these are not well known outside of privacy circles. The upshot is if you're a lawyer and you know the method of decoding these dots, you can show that this document was printed on a model of printer that was not released in the year 2000 or whenever, and you wouldn't need the fraudulent document to have been written in a specific font.

[@johnclement5903]

That's why I still use my 25 year old dot-matrix printer. Ain't no gubmint trackable microdots coming out of that thing.

[@walteralcaraz5898]

It might not be fully applicable if the original document is unavailable, say, due to a fire, or a natural disaster like a flood, tornado, or hurricane. Sometimes, if a document has been digitized, they will allow it to be reprinted on a newer printer, and a human verifies that the printout matches the digital version. It is then notarized. The notarized printout will be accepted as legal if the original document was say destroyed, or cannot be read anymore, but the digital scanned version of when it was fine exists. Obviously, the person that notarized it may be called to testify that they indeed saw both versions and verified the accuracy.

[@tinaleanne8230]

Sorry, only partially correct. It is not "almost all" printers. It is only specific *color* printers and copiers and the primary reason is tracking counterfeiting of money. Does not work on text documents because the is no place to hide the dots.

[@OmnipotentEntity]

@@tinaleanne8230 Text documents are actually fingerprinted. The original reason given for the dots was tracking counterfeit money, but like all privacy things, an inch is given under a pretext, and a mile is taken because it can be. Per an EFF FOIA request, "Some of the documents that we previously received through FOIA suggested that all major manufacturers of color laser printers entered a secret agreement with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable." This is typically done with yellow microdots, but other methods exist. Because it is difficult to see tiny yellow dots on white paper, it is quite literally hidden in plain sight.

[@johnridout6540]

@@tinaleanne8230 Yes, only on colour laser devices as the machine identification code is a pattern of very small yellow dots. However, this works very well on text documents as the dots are not visible to the naked eye and there is plenty of whitespace.

[@solandri69]

There was a similar funny story about fonts from the early 2000s. The government released some documents with information redacted out - literally words covered with black marker, then photocopies released to the public. But the document had been generated in Word using a identifiable font. The font was proportional, which has variable spacing between letters depending on the size of the letters. So for example, an 'o' is wider than an 'i'. Based on the distance between the letters on either side of the redacted words, you could figure out what the redacted words were. Apparently this is the oft-forgotten reason why classified documents are printed using monospaced fonts. It was a matter of fact when everything was typewritten. But after computers became the norm, they continued to use monospaced fonts.

[@kurtschlarb9762]

Solandri. Your recounting of this story is much more entertaining and interesting than Steve's. It has some complicated details, but written succinctly. I had to listen to Steve for 18 minutes just to get to yours.

[@marymahoney233]

Great story!

[@GG-08]

@@kurtschlarb9762 that’s weird because this is a completely different story than what the video is about. So how could he have told it better than this Steve guy, if Steve wasn’t even telling that specific story?

[@kurtschlarb9762]

@@GG-08 Maybe not so weird. I saw a video, and was more intrigued by a comment than the video itself.

[@kurtschlarb9762]

@@GG-08 Sorry. I reread my original comment. I can understand why you said that.

[@jackabug2475]

As a graphic designer and a long-time fan of both this channel and the mostly-mythical on-the-stand "Gotcha!" moment so beloved of crime-drama writers, I found this video particularly enjoyable! Thanks for bringing the case to our attention.

[@sophierobinson2738]

I thought it was a lovely “Perry Mason” moment!

[@Seytom]

Reminds me of a binding arbitration I had, where the experience of my client as an investor was key. He told me he had written in "0" for years of experience, but the defendants had written 1s in front of them as if he had claimed 10 years experience. At the hearing we asked in front of the panel for the original. The opposing attorney denied having it, but an assistant assured him they did. "No, you must be thinking of a different document." "No, I've seen it recently." "I'm sure you're thinking of a different document." (Assistant reaches into a pile of papers in front of the attorney) "Here it is!" Sure enough, the original 0s were in black, the 1s in front of them were in blue. We had a lot of other evidence too, but I'm pretty sure that was a key moment for the arbitrators.

[@MarsJenkar]

Honestly, a deception that obvious and egregious would make me doubt everything else that party said or did. _Falsis in uno_ and all that, as an attorney might put it.

[@AFloridaSon]

It's really sad that a son could be this way to his mother, over money. I would give everything I have to just to get either one of my parents back.

[@kele1264]

I feel the same way about my parents, and my brothers. So sorry!

[@rogerszmodis]

Not all parents are good

[@roy19491]

the love of money is the root of all evil

[@AFloridaSon]

@@rogerszmodis That's true, but in this case the son is trying to forge documents just to get money from his mom.

[@dianayount2122]

exactly

[@PikeBot]

This reminds me of when I was TAing an English course in grad school. Everyone thinks that there's no way anyone could notice them expanding the margins to make their undersized paper a little longer; it's such a small difference, who could tell, right? What they don't realize is that they're handing their paper to someone who has spend hours, days even, poring over identically formatted documents. Even a small change stands out in that context.

[@AttacMage]

had an assignment for a science class in my first year that required double spacing and 1 inch margins. we were supposed be to going over a local study in one page. I'll never understand the weird requirements like that.

[@mrw1208]

Have had many students turn in papers that were simply cut-and-pasted straight from the net. Some get a little more sophisticated and cut-and-paste from multiple sources. But it's still easy to catch. What's getting harder to catch is Chat GPT. Unfortunately, we have a very high ranking politician, as in super high, who got busted in grad school for doing straight up plagiarism, and then later got busted for giving speeches that were straight up plagiarism. The body rots from the top.

[@ekothesilent9456]

@@AttacMage super specific details like that let you know that AIs or other machines are grading your papers and can only do so under pre-determined formats.

[@AttacMage]

@@ekothesilent9456 could just be that it was an online generals class that had a bunch of kids taking it.

[@user6122]

@@ekothesilent9456 no it just means a grader wants everything to be consistent

[@srteach70]

My story ... My Ex-wife was behind in child support by multi thousands of dollars. In a contempt of court for failure to pay proceeding, she successfully introduced two check duplicates (carbons) on the DAY OF court. The total amount of the carbons was the total amount owed. The carbons (not the checks) were still attached in the checkbook, and dated one month apart. The check numbers were sequential. This was a time when debit cards did not exist. Court was deferred and she made arrangements to actually pay. I think her lawyer hammered her with possible perjury charges if they proceeded.

[@markuswilkerson4601]

Wouldn't she still have to show her bank statement showing that the checks were cashed by you?

[@Kaotiqua]

@@markuswilkerson4601 Also, this would presume she didn't have a system which used a particular checkbook only for those specific payments, in which case, the sequential numbering would be expected.

[@michaelmurphy2112]

@@markuswilkerson4601 not necessarily. I imagine she just needs to show proof she paid, otherwise a vengeful ex could just "forget" to deposit the checks and make life hell

[@ThrawnFett123]

​@Michael Murphy it's the "checks still attached" part that nails her in this case. Attached means not removed, not removed means not sent, not sent means no possibility of them being cashed whether a vengeful ex wanted to or not. It'd be like if I wrote a bank transfer on the bank website, took a screenshot of it being entered, then claimed it was proof I paid. The fact they were sequential may have also nailed her, assuming bank records of the dates she chose showed insufficient funds. That would be deliberately writing a bad check, and bounced checks are counted as non payment.

[@frankmoreau8847]

@@ThrawnFett123 The carbon copies were still attached to the bindings, not the actual checks. It's still a scam that any lawyer could easily argue against just by asking for proof of mailing and proof the money actually left her account via bank statements.

[@TimeSurfer206]

I KNEW I was holding onto my manual Underwood for a reason.

[@seanmaury7844]

The "trained" 23yo reviewing my service record removed several documents because the font looked fake. The font was a specific "OCR" type used years ago but was very popular. The documents were from the 80's and this guy tried to shred them 😂😂 I found an older staff member to help. It was quite funny but also scary. What else was deemed "fake" because the reviewer had no clue? 😮😂

[@JimDean002]

Go look at how many videos there are of store people refusing to take older money because they don't think it's real. Or the ones who won't take it $2 bill. There's actually one guy who wound up in jail because even the cops thought a $2 bill didn't exist.

[@hautehussey]

Yep. People need to be very careful judging by a font. Most fonts you see now were around in the year 2000, or have very similar counterparts that were.

[@davidtucker3826]

What about if the document was located on an old hard drive and printed today, would that not raise the possibility of the new(er) font?

[@seanmaury7844]

@David Tucker a simple edit of a file followed by printing would produce a new document. It's semantics but documents are hard copies not e-files. This isn't what this topic is about. Fraud is never smart but if he was smart, he would know better than just printing it.

[@vicktorpatriot1430]

​@@JimDean002that cop should have been fired , no retirement and no social security either. Wearing a badge is no excuse to be ignorant of US Currency denominations

[@jasqarmorgan2549]

The horrible thing is, no matter the outcome, the family has come to this point. Feel so sorry for anyone that has such issues with their family that things like this can happen.

[@edennis8578]

It only takes one malignant narcissist with a criminal mind, who doesn't mind suing his elderly mother for triple damages and forging documents.

[@grizzlygrizzle]

@@edennis8578 Anyone who thinks that genetics determine moral attributes (old-school racists, and neo-racists of the identity politics school) should look at the moral diversity within families.

[@13gan]

It's hard to tell what really happened that caused such a familial conflict. I mean, it's possible that the house that was sold holds sentimental value to the son, so when it was sold without him being informed about it, he blew his lid off. It's even possible that the mother's subsequent actions (which may or may not include the sale of the house) after the father's death is the real point of conflict. It's also possible that the son's company has some financial difficulties of his own and therefore needs the money back. Who knows.

[@jasonluong3862]

Speaking of fonts, I remember in high school when I had to write a book report that had to be at least 3 pages long or something like that. I purposefully used a wider font to "stretch" out the report to comply to this requirement. Life is not without its irony where today I purposefully choose narrower fonts so I can cram more words into my reports because I want to cover as much relevant information as possible without making the report look too long that would discourage people to read it when they see how many pages there are. Maybe it's not irony that has bestowed upon me, but poetic justice for my past indiscretions.

[@jguenther3049]

Final Draft screenwriting software gives you the ability to tweak the standard fonts to permit cramming a 125 page script into 120 pages. FD will give you fractional fonts, such as 11.5 pt, instead of 12 pt.

[@GeorgeVCohea]

If a screenwriter can keep a script down to even 125 pages, I would be amazed in this twenty-first century. Movies have been getting longer and longer over the past couple of decades. The latest Mission Impossible film was substantially too long and was merely part 1 of 2! The profit margin must not be a factor in fewer showings or something.

[@holyknightthatpwns]

I don't think it's ironic that you didn't practice writing documents of the ascribed length in high school, and now you still struggle with that skill. Makes perfect sense to me.

[@MarieAntoinetteandherlittlesis]

It might be because you use sentences like “Life is not without its irony where today I purposefully choose narrower fonts so I can cram more words into my reports because I want to cover as much relevant information as possible without making the report look too long that will discourage people to read it when they see how many pages there are.” I barely made it through THAT sentence, I can’t imagine a report! 😅

[@katiekane5247]

I learned the hard way about real estate arrangements needing to be on paper. I was engaged to a guy, owned my land outright & we were trying to buy a mobile home for it. In order to make the best loan, I put his name on the property as collateral. When the relationship soured (imagine that), he tried to say I gave it to him, no marriage plans. I had saved the receipt from the announcements, it pre dated the real estate transfer. I'd have certainly lost my property without it. Older, wiser & single 😊

[@stevebutler812]

Yeah, but you were single. So, still single. Hopefully, not alone though. It's funny how gays wanted legal marriage so badly, and the one group that also fought for gay marriage was the Trial Lawyers Association.

[@watsisbuttndo829]

Similar situation here, I owned my house outright before meeting my future wife, she asked me several years in to add her name to the deeds. Thankfully the deeds were actually kept at a solicitors in my fathers home town several hours away and she didn't enjoy the drive or my dads company so she never got added.Wasn't long after that the relationship strangely soured. I still have my house. Will also not be getting married again.

[@hoosierplowboy5299]

Well done, Katie...😊

[@Locutus]

@Peter Angles Your comment is sort of weird.

[@Locutus]

@Peter Angles Thanks mate. It took hours to come up with that. I also got a first degree burn, giving you that 3rd degree burn.

[@davebrunson125]

2 things you brought up I had to deal with. 1 I was trying to buy a house and there were big problems with the contract. The realtor argued and i said let the lawyer fix it. She sent me the "new contract" a couple days later. I went over it and blew a fuse. She simply printed the old contract in a different font. #2 I was in a custody case, I was charged with a Rule to show cause that I kept my daughter 1 day too many during an extended visit. The lawyer showed me a schedule planner and had me count the days. I skipped over the 31st in his planner. The planner didn't list months just 1-31 days. He tried to discredit me before the judge. I replied November only has 30 days. I didn't fall for his trick and the judge threw out their claim

[@localcrew]

Nice...

[@gordonhenderson1965]

That reminds me of the time I was young and had started submitting invoices for payment and embarrassingly used a 31 day template for every month. That resulted in some very uncomfortable moments trying to convince the boss I really wasn't trying to rob them.

[@humblewisdom8976]

That reminds me when I was in high school in bioligy class. In order to get an A on the project of disecting a frog. I think we had to have labeled seventy parts and in like forty five minutes, or something like that. The task seemed impossible until my partner and I decided that it might help to skip a few numbers along the way as we labeled the parts. We did get an A on the project much to the chagrin of the brains in the class. Neither the teacher or the brains could figure out how we did so well. I don't condone such activities but tell it for the purpose of paying attention to such things. 🙂

[@localcrew]

@@humblewisdom8976 Genius level stuff right here. You earned that “A”, my friend.

[@davegaetano7118]

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."

[@justicedemocrat9357]

Can you practice to shut up?

[@davegaetano7118]

@@lovecats6856 Thanks! I corrected it.

[@justjones5430]

A three minute story crammed into a nineteen minute video! How do they do it? It's amazing!

[@doggiesarus]

Font nerds would disagree.

[@Draxel]

Lawyers!

[@halvarf]

@@doggiesarus For font nerds, this is a 30 second story.

[@Allegheny500]

This story brings back memories, I used to work for Photo Lettering Inc. back in the late 70's. They had several typeface designers on staff including Ed Benguiat who designed about 20 typefaces while I was there and is credited for designing some 600 plus over his career.

[@jordesign]

Ed is a typeface rockstar!

[@anim8torfiddler871]

I remember Chartpak and Letraset layouts using Benguiat. In my youth, I figured that was a made-up name for the font. Clueless as I was, it finally dawned on me that each font is thoughtfully crafted --> every CHARACTER -- by a DESIGNER!!!

[@esteban1487]

Sounds like a real winner of a family.

[@BigTrain175]

Similar thing happened to me. My wife and I (and a third party) were being sued in a landlord/tenant dispute. The plaintiffs provided documents as part of discovery only the day before trial. Three were forgeries including my fake signature and a fourth document was altered. The judge threw the case out of court before the issue of the documents was even addressed due to the lateness. Judge also admonished the plaintiffs for coming to court dressed in sweats. Almost wish the case had continued so we could show what liars they were.

[@PISQUEFrancis]

A countersuit would ensured your use of applicable evidence ...

[@dangdudedan8756]

as a graphic designer that spends hours searching for the right font with an intense hate for injustice, this fills me with pure joy

[@samsonian]

My mother is/was a graphic designer my whole life except a short period prior to my birth and a little after, when she worked as a calligrapher. Being in that business, she has many old friends that are typographers. They’re an interesting bunch, quite talented individuals. Cheers Steve! 🖖😎👍

[@franciswhite4032]

Little Green Footballs discovered the use of a modern computer font on a Memorandum for Record, purported to have been produced on a IBM Selectric typewriter in 1970's. It cost Dan Rather his job.

[@willer3399]

Every news instinct Dan Rather had should have been screaming at him that the document was a fake. That is what happens when you let you feelings overrule your professionalism.

[@_PatrickO]

Rather was not fired for being tricked. He was fired for lying about the document. Had he not lied about the document's provenance or about who authenticated the document, he could have followed company oolicy and would have been fine. There is no way to know how many other pieces of evidence used by Rather wasn't faked over his career. If he was duped by fake evidence, no one would have cared. Instead, he invented fake histories to a document to avoid admitting its real history which puts every report he ever did in question.

[@coolworx]

@@willer3399 Meanwhile... Rachel Madcow is still sceeching about the Steele Dossier.

[@eddiewillers1]

Wasn't that the one about GW Bush and his National Guard record?

[@debbiedogs1]

​@@willer3399- did he ever have instincts re news, or was he always a stenographer to power and merely got worse??

[@Ron-jk8to]

1) Good lawyer for catching that. 2) After suing his own mother for treble damages, I wonder if his mother makes sure to spend every last penny before she dies. Or leaves it to a charity.

[@gavinjenkins899]

Why would you go spending to the last penny? You don't have to leave anything to your son later.

[@magietagie]

I work for a Bank. At one point I worked in the mortgage investigation department. We had a file, where the attorney had contacted us, because they hadn’t received the discharge on a mortgage after a sale of the home. When I looked into it. The attorney had requested a payout statement (which shows the total amount due to pay the mortgage in full.) we issued this. However, the seller of the property who worked as a legal assistant had gotten a hold of the payout statement and had manipulate the statement. Changing the amount due to a lot less. The font was all wrong and anyone looking at it for more than a second would see it. It was a clear case of fraud. The attorney, had released the funds to the seller. So they made a lot more on the sale maybe $200k more. And now was unable to get a clear title because the amount the bank was due was a lot more. I believe the sellers had left the country after the sale of the property. So it was all planned out by them. Not sure what the attorney had to do, or what happened to the property for the buyers. As the investigation was over for us.

[@Foobar_The_Fat_Penguin]

There was also a case where the Pakistani prime minister tried to weasel his way out of uncomfortable questions related to the Panama papers and produced a document in Calibri that dated to a time when the font was only available in beta versions of Vista and Office.

[@HomerNarr]

Exactly: There is a note on the "calibri" page on wikipedia.

[@jasonformann4980]

Had this happen to us but it was a phone message slip, the secretary altered the message we left with a different thickness of ink, was ridiculously easy to see and the judge immediately stopped the trial and put judgment in our favor. The best part the credit company had to pay $3800 in legal fees to our attorney!!!

[@foogod4237]

When a document like this shows up so late in the process, it is entirely reasonable to ask things like "why didn't this come up through discovery?" but there are potentially legitimate answers to that question too. For example, he could say something like "Well, we couldn't find it when we were putting together the documents earlier, but I distinctly remembered writing it back in 2000, and it really bugged me, so afterward I kept digging through all of our files and eventually I found it misfiled in the wrong place, so I presented it as soon as I could after I actually found it." And in another scenario that might actually legitimately be what happened. And if it was actually a legitimate document, that could conceivably substantially change the outcome of the case, should it just be thrown out and ignored because of a clerical error that may not have even been this person's fault, many years ago? It's reasonable for a court to try to err on the side of accepting any evidence that is actually available, even if it didn't come in in the ideal way (which may involve things like delaying the case a bit to give everyone time to review it, etc). In the interest of actual justice, just because some evidence is "late" shouldn't necessarily make it invalid. But then you also get things like this, and the scary thing here is that if he'd just been a little more careful, or the other side been a little less keen-eyed, it probably would have worked, too. (A little-known fact: A lot of modern laser-printers also encode the printer's model and sometimes serial number in effectively imperceptible codes hidden on the page as well, which can also sometimes be decoded and used for this sort of thing (for example, to prove that a document was printed on a model of printer which didn't exist at the supposed time it was created, etc).)

[@walteralcaraz5898]

My father was a juror on a criminal case about 25 years ago. Several pieces of evidence were disallowed by the judge, but were allowed to impugn a witness' credibility (namely the defendant who didn't need to take the stand, but stupidly did so because he couldn't let things go and shut up). The defendant claimed several things negatively (I never met the victim, so no way could I even have been there to kill him), and the prosecution used these two disallowed pieces of evidence, now allowed, to show that the defendant was lying like crazy. My father told me that during deliberation they discussed it and were all going to vote Not Guilty, and the defendant was going to be set free. Until.. that last day, when the defendant opened his mouth and destroyed himself on the stand. Then they all voted Guilty, and convicted him relatively quickly and easily.

[@Kynawrath]

Tldr

[@Grastiars1]

I thought you were speaking BS about printers putting secret codes on pages they print but I was shocked to learn you didn’t

[@blindbrad4719]

That's cool about the secret codes. I really hope the mother in the story did initially agreed to pay back the loan… 😂 😂 😂

[@michaelsorensen7567]

I could see an argument for "if it shows up last second we can't hold trial till we get a chance to look through it properly", but I can also see one side or the other stringing the court along indefinitely if they keep the drip going. Glad I'm not a judge

[@merridethWard]

I love cases like this! I was on path to law school later in life. Paralegal classes. Top of my class. Many debates on obscure Cases. Health got in way of dreams. Watching these cases gives me a spark of life! Thank you

[@calvinlee449]

*heh* We had a similar case involving documents in our Condo Management Board case versus a tenant who also had "rental commercial lease agreements". The board wanted to let everything stay in the past and move forward with new agreements. He had the daring to say "see you in court". Long story short - He used some sort of NYC Lease agreement forms with watermarks which did not exist in that color and some of the other markings were off during the terms he said he had them. He was supposedly a tax lawyer with supposedly over 40 years experience, at the time. He ultimately settled the case before it went to court.

[@BrianBoniMakes]

He presented a false document to a judge, how did he not end up being charged?

[@bradmaas6875]

He lost, and it will follow him for the rest of his life.

[@Trahloc]

​@@bradmaas6875this is why people have no respect for perjury. If we don't punish the obvious liars then the potential ones have no fear.

[@noseboop4354]

@@bradmaas6875 No it won't. He'll still pass any criminal or security background check with flying colors.

[@Tzizenorec]

Steve pointed out near the end of the video that we don't necessarily know that the son is _personally_ responsible for forging the document. Charging him with a crime for the forgery would be extra steps, requiring an additional investigation.

[@mattiOTX]

This is called a civil suit not a criminal one. In civil suits the rules are different and so is the bar to allow evidence. If this were a criminal trial then yea I would expect the state to deal with some shit but private individuals at worst it will be financially impactful such as the fact that when the guy lost he will have to pay all the court charges including his and the other parties attorney fees. Which seems like pretty decent punishment to me.

[@SharptonsRaceCard]

This reminds me of a case where I was called as a witness, because a former patient, after I wrote him a prescription for a controlled substance, had printed out his *own* prescriptions using my DEA number and his home printer. I was subpoenaed to testify that no, I had NOT ever printed out prescriptions from a home printer, using regular copy paper with no watermark. I sat out in the hallway, thinking I was going to have to take the stand and testify that I did not, in fact, break a slew of state and federal laws to give this sister fister prescriptions for Valium and Norco, 600 tablets each, with six refills, thinking that this might be the dumbest legal proceeding of all time. (I was a physician who practiced emergency medicine, so I never wrote more than 6-30 pills of ANY medication, controlled substance or NOT. A pharmacist noticed the conundrum, and called the police when the prescriptions were presented.) Evidently, the defendant agreed to a plea deal that day, and I was told that I could go ahead and go home by the clerk.

[@reginaschellhaas1395]

@SharptonsRaceCard I remember when the special watermark paper was introduced. Very good safety advancement. The forged prescription amounts cried out for attention. As you infer, pharmacists do more than dispense "pills". Glad you got to go home, without having to testify.

[@gwenrichard7507]

110,000$ gift?! What!? Is this why my parents always taught me to write thank you letters without mentioning how much money it was?

[@The_Jzoli]

Hope they paid gift tax...

[@stevejohnson1685]

Along the same lines, my family and I were on a train in Italy where we met an elderly gentleman who was carrying an art valise. We chatted with him, and found out that he was on his way to Venice to appeal a zoning board ruling that prevented him from opening a window on an upper floor of his "apartment" on the Grand Canal. They wouldn't allow him to do so unless he could demonstrate that the window had previously existed, and been closed over. In his art valise, he had a painting from the 1400s showing his building *with* the window in place. I didn't notice if the artist's name had been printed in Calibri!

[@reginaschellhaas1395]

Great story!

[@dokkwalk]

ai bot

[@blindbrad4719]

That artist uses comic sans

[@JokingThief]

Headline that makes you drop everything and watch Steve

[@capt.bart.roberts4975]

I'm still waiting for the end of the probate judges story.

[@Ashas.Garden]

Totally! What a situation.

[@BadDadio]

It’s amazing how some families treat each other.

[@BrentBlueAllen]

I can't imagine suing my own mother for $600k, let alone falsifying a document against her.

[@roy19491]

the son should be prosecuted for public douchebaggery......

[@kathleenkrug-byle1199]

I’m mother and if my son needed money, I’d give it to him, but I know in my old age he will take care of me.

[@sehrgut42]

what about a mother that wants to steal from her own son?

[@madmaximilian5783]

Hey Steve this is another teaching moment, I really enjoy your content and as usual you provide great humor in your breakdown of the case.

[@ambilaevus7607]

Good catch on the font. I miss Times New Roman. Certain letters are easier to read in it. I program now and having i L and 1 getting mixed up in documentation is very common since Times was abandoned as the default. Times minimized errors in my opinion.

[@nicholasvinen]

Serif fonts are easier to read on paper but sans serif is generally better for screen reading.

[@tonyocoffey5175]

In the ‘80s I published a community newspaper in a small town. My competitor was in the habit of “lifting” ads from our paper created by our staff, then selling the space in his throwaway ad rag and crow about how he could undercut our price. Despite a cease and desist order he persisted. I took him to small claims court (simplified claims process) for $5,000 damages. He testified he created the ad with his own hand. I caught him up on the tiny printing imperfections which were on our ad which was published first, and also appeared on his copy of our ad. Only got $500, but it still called for a celebratory jar of Alberta rye whisky.

[@dwtbrown]

My first Trial in 1992 I won in L.A. County with a font that contradicted the Defendant's story (I won't bore you with details). It was produced by their office. Legal Malpractice case.

[@jdlech]

Thank you for the reminder. I recently upgraded my version of Windows, and you just reminded me that there are dozens of old style manual and electric typewriter fonts available for free. Many old style typewriters had their own font, according to model, and sometimes even the make. Many of these fonts don't come bundled with the operating system. And applications like MS Word does not include any of them. But you can get dozens of them for free off the internet, and the internet also has simple instructions on how to install them. And, of course, as typewriters were used, the keys would get worn. There's fonts for that too. This is something the FBI used to help identify the origin of various documents and letters. There's a whole line of expert analysis based on the font and spacing of typewriters - including the strike force of the keys leaving indentations on the paper. I've always found it fascinating that this science exists. You reminded me of all this.

[@RealPackCat]

Couldn't you also buy different IBM Selectric writing balls stored in their own custom plastic cubes for printing with different fonts?

[@johnclement5903]

I remember the good old days, when ransom notes had to be cut & pasted, literally, from random newspapers.

[@shadefangkweep]

@@RealPackCat Yup, there were also swappable daisy-wheel style font discs.

[@osanieslana960]

What is still bugging me about this is no one has mentioned the aging of paper in the matter too. Even if you print a page and then put it in a file that never sees daylight for 20+ years it changes color

[@GrayRaceCat]

Steve never said whether it had been "printed and filed" at the time of the "agreement" or "stored digitally at the time of the "agreement" and then printed for the court appearance.

[@jerry2357]

If it’s decent quality paper and it’s kept in the dark, it doesn’t change colour much. Newsprint, on the other hand, changes colour a lot. EDIT I just looked through a file which has been kept on a shelf (i.e. not specifically in the dark in a filing cabinet) and I found a document from 2003: comparing the paper with a printout I made last week I can’t tell a difference in the paper’s colour. I don’t know, but I suspect that the paper is 80 gsm general purpose office paper (the copy from last week certainly is).

[@JonBoullion1020]

Coffee Grounds and pressure can do wonders for porous materials 😜

[@MoiraWillenov]

@@JonBoullion1020 Thanks. 😀

[@NathanNostaw]

Common trick forgers use is to cut blank pages from books of the correct age. Wouldn't be hard to find some libraries with books containing blank pages.

[@carportchronicles1943]

As someone who has worked in journalism, and layout and design for print media, since the early '90s I found this absolutely fascinating. Font choice is something which is always considered when working on a project, because you are concerned with a number of factors, ranging from readability to theme, but the average layperson simply doesn't think about it much.

[@mikewurlitzer5217]

Dan Rather could have learned a lot from you!

[@amayasasaki2848]

I'm just a little bit of a font nerd. Personally I like Libertinus Sans. Optima is a similar font, but only readily available on Apple products. Libertinus Sans is open.

[@RastaJew]

A large number of colour printers add a barely visible array of tiny yellow dots to every page which encodes the printer serial number and date. This started in the 80s and only became public knowledge in 2004. It's still going on. But mysteriously no one ever talks about it despite its potential usefulness in cases like this.

[@__-bz7wh]

Should be illegal for printer companies to have done this without buyers' awareness

[@xenn4985]

Nobody ever talks about it because most printers dont do it.

[@blockbertus]

@@__-bz7wh its to identify who printed a counterfeit money bill.

[@Generallyannoyed2024]

You can actually find a list my looking up Machine Identification Code (MIC) and yes many many color printers do use it

[@tedmoss]

@@__-bz7wh But it is not.

[@nancyboyer-sneddon379]

Great story! Brought back memory of my days at the University of Maryland, 1985-1987. Had a teacher that told us upfront that we would get an automatic "F" if we used the font "Bookman" on any project. Never been so afraid of a font in my life.😂

[@anim8torfiddler871]

I LIKE Bookman. I bet the instructor had at one point been required to use Bookman RUB-ON Chartpak lettering for all the headlines for some brochure, because the client didn't want to pay for typesetting.

[@Il0vebagels69]

Imagine taking an L because of comic sans or something similar 😂

[@theplasmawolf]

Just in case I ever get called as a witness in a case, I will now write all my documents in WINGDINGS.

[@winchestersons6258]

Comic sans is an automatic win on any legal document

[@randomuser6378]

He actually should’ve used comic sans. That was introduced in 94, so would’ve been a contemporary choice :)

[@MrFixItGa]

Sometimes, I feel like I'm halfway to a law degree just from listening to Steve. 😂

[@Cheepchipsable]

Power of the internet. Hear a few fact, and suddenly you are an expert!

[@KabobHope]

That and a little AI and you could pass the bar.

[@MelvinTheGrate]

Indeed, just like I feel as though I could flawless fly an airliner after watching a bunch of @MentourPilot videos.

[@educationalbrowsing8913]

A similar thing happened to me several years ago. A superior was in the office a while before working hours and used my computer and printer to produce a document but did not realize a serious error had been made. The client notified the boss about the error and I was greeted by mayhem upon my arrival. The person responsible for the error indirectly but pointedly blamed me for it. Fortunately, after the document had already been printed and sent to the client and upon my arrival at work, my printer was in the process of being changed. And the new printer produced a font that had a slight but noticeable variation when compared to the erroneous document. I was able to show the comparison to the boss and redeem myself. If my printer hadn't been changed when it was, so many years later I would still be carrying the blame for the error. Thank God for small-big mercies.

[@dokkwalk]

ai bot

[@randalthor741]

In case anyone's curious about what the phrase "hoisted with his own petard" (often misquoted as "hoisted on his own petard") means, it was indeed coined by William Shakespeare, and a petard is a type of early gunpowder bomb that was used in siege warfare. You would take the petard up to the base of the castle/city walls, light it and run. So to be hoisted with your own petard would literally be getting blown up into the air by a bomb that you just set off yourself, although of course the phrase is used metaphorically rather than literally.

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

If I remember correctly, the saying is actually "hoist by his own petard" but the rest is correct. It's certainly an interesting mental image to conjure.

[@randalthor741]

@@melkiorwiseman5234 the full line from Hamlet is actually: Let it work, For 'tis the sport to have the enginer Hoist with his own petard; and 't shall go hard But I will delve one yard below their mines And blow them at the moon.

[@libbylandscape3560]

Thanks for the clarity.

[@bryanblake8607]

This is why I don’t ask family and friends for money nor give money, you get into situations like this

[@patrickdurham8393]

My grandma told me "Never borrow or lend money among friends or family because it never ends well. If a friend needs help just give them the money and claim a good deed with no other recompense required." I've found over the years that not only was she a wise woman but also oft times that money returned to me in one form or another without ruining relationships.

[@mikesmith-po8nd]

Patrick, I do the same and it works well.

[@evilsharkey8954]

“Neither a borrower nor a lender be”

[@dmitripogosian5084]

Borrow or lend is problematic, but to gift i don't see a problem

[@hearmeout9138]

Even beyond the font, there are other characteristics of documents that change over time. Very old documents experience yellowing of the paper and since they are produced from typically organic sources (wood, hemp, cotton, etc), an older document can be Carbon-12 dated. Certain types of printer ink also degrade over time. Also, just like a font, the type of paper may also change over time.

[@melimsah]

I knew immediately the font would be calibri. I got marked down a point on a 10 point heavily weighted assignment in a psychology class right after the switch in MS Office, not realizing that Times New Roman wasn't the default anymore, and the TA decided it was so against the style guide to knock me from a B to a C. I was livid.

[@ArlynEmrys]

on Windows XP though, so way before NY TIMES alleged create date 🤷‍♂️🤣😂

[@bartsanders1553]

When you defraud the court with forged documents, you need to be careful what font you use. I'm learning so much about how to be an effective scumbag!

[@schweizerbananen]

Best advice: use equipment from that date or earlier. Not just font. (Paper could have changed chemical ingredients too, not to mention ink etc.)

[@williamjenkins4913]

@@schweizerbananen Buy a book from the time you want to date your documents to and remove a blank page to work with.

[@mpf1947]

@@schweizerbananen And the yellow dot pattern most color printers apply to every print that contains the serial number of the printer.

[@crankyyankee2475]

It took my brother and me two years to settle our father's estate, even though he had a will that was notarized and witnessed. Not one person was contesting the will, but the probate judge was being difficult because the notary had died shortly before my dad, and could not verify the notarization. We finally settled the estate after spending a few thousand bucks on a lawyer, and getting my uncle and others that knew my dad's wishes to go before the judge and plead on our behalf. I'm not sure what would have happened if someone in the family had actually been contesting the will, but I am sure it would have been much more expensive and time-consuming.

[@TheIndianaGeoff]

Judges are lawyers too. Just feeding the machine at your expense.

[@Toastybees]

​@@TheIndianaGeoff There's actually no requirement for a judge to pass the bar (for most seats), it's an elected position. It's just highly unusual for a judge to not also be a lawyer because they could accidentally do all kinds of misconduct and get themselves removed from the bench quickly.

[@SRQmoviemaker]

My great uncle died, left a will that was contested and it went on for 6 years, his kids wasted so much money on it all they each ended up with much less than if not contested

[@teenapittman4241]

In my county, in MS'sippi, my husband went before a judge that had inherited her seat on the bench. When her husband died, a sitting judge in criminal traffic, (DUI), court, his wife was appointed to take his place. I'm not sure if it was temporary and/or if it was common to do so. She was a terrible judge. The arresting officer threatened to arrest my husband for distribution of drugs, after he plead 'not guilty', if he didn't change his plea to guilty. He told him that in open court. I looked at the judge and asked point blank, if he was allowed to do that. She looked at me, turned toward the prosecuter and pretended that she and him were in an important conversation and that she didn't hear me. Even after I asked 2 more times. Meanwhile the police officer was ranting like a madman about arresting my husband again. Stupidly, we went without an attorney, because there was no proof that he was under the influence. He was scared into pleading guilty, to the tune of about 1500 dollars in fines and fees. He was pulled over because his truck matched the description of an anon call of someone weaving, crossing the center line, and running other vehicles off the road. Our 8 yr old grandson was with him and kept telling the cop that it wasn't his grandpa. Also the cop kept calling my husband by a different name, almost, like maybe a tag number had been called in and he knew the bad drivers name already. A breathalyzer showed nothing, he didn't request a blood test. My husband had a prescription bottle, with his name and correct prescription, with 2 pain pills in it, in the clutter of things in the slot beside the console. It was confiscated. About a year later the police officer was fired for doing drugs. Seems like I remember that he went to jail for it. I could be wrong, it's been bout 20 yrs ago. As much as I dislike hiring an attorney, we don't go to court without one.

[@danbusey]

Steve, would you consider presenting an episode describing the discovery process? I'd really like to learn about it.

[@WojciechP915]

This is why I print everything in a proper old fashioned font like Comic Sans.

[@pt68picaso]

Great story Steve! Appreciated the explanation of the Latin. Story illustrates life experience is worth something. I've noticed this Calibri font and haven't adopted it. Another twist on the story could be a watermark of the paper manufacturer, using stock that wasn't in existance in an earlier era.

[@josefmazzeo6628]

I find it amazing that the attorney was able to detect the Calibri font which is very similar to to the very common and old Arial font (did he also have access to the electronic file?) .... try it in Word -- type two lines of text in both Calibri and Arial and make the size large to see the differences - they are very close....they are both sans serif fonts. Nevertheless he is a sharp defense attorney worthy of the Perry Mason Award.

[@AHD2105]

I was thinking that too. But I guess Arial I would select, and still do often. But Times New Roman (TNR) was the default. So it's likely it should've been TNR unless like some Arail was selected, of course. If the defense is around 50s, they probably are very familiar with Arial also.

[@ChrisCoombes]

If you're a Mac user having to use Windows for your job, Calibri hurts your eyes.

[@magica3526]

it was made clear in the video you ostensibly watched that recreating it with default word settings gave a result identical if you held them up together beneath a light, a method in which even minor differences are obvious

[@hakonsoreide]

To someone into fonts, Arial and Calibri are hugely different, and even if you're not and have never looked at them properly to spot what the differences are, put the same text in Calibri and Arial side by side, and anyone would see it immediately. Calibri is just another Futura clone (Futura is probably the most used or copied sans serif font), and if you put Futura Light and Calibri next to each other, you will see they are slightly different, but you might not immediately know which is which. I've never liked Calibri, much preferring the older Word default Times New Roman. After Calibri was introduced, I've tended to use Garamond or Palatino Linotype instead, two of my favourite typefaces for printed books, or IA Writer Duospace if I want to make something even easier to proofread or edit, or for printing in small sizes for hardcopy archiving.

[@intercity125]

Arial don't look a damn thing like Calibri.

[@stevenmitchell6347]

There's a market for older printers that use fonts no longer used, too. Forgers are known to use these to fabricate documents for various purposes.

[@jameslaupan6499]

Back in 2002 I was subpoenaed to court for a complaint by a neighbor. It started when she claimed i had a pile of brush in my front yard that she said was against city ordinance. It turned out to be a retaliation from when someone turned her in for housing to many dogs, for which there was a limit, you were allowed 2, and she at times was fostering 4 or 5 at a time. She thought I was the one who turned her in. I found out later the city prosecutor was a friend of hers, so he did all he could to charge me. After 4 times in court the prosecutor brought a picture in claiming it was of my front yard, and had been taken in October, the problem was the picture was not of my yard, it was a stock picture and had daffodils in glorious bloom in the background. Heres the problem; daffodils bloom in march or april in my area, so when I laughed in his face in court he turned bright red, either embarrassed or angry, I think both, and when we were before the judge he immediately told the judge he wanted to drop the case. He and the judge were friends, they discussed kids and exchanged pleasantries before all of this. I wanted to bring the forged document up to the judge, but was told all charges were being dropped "with prejudice" and that i shold be happy of the decision. It was the perfect example of a kangaroo court, and the judge covered for the prosecutor. Had I the money and time I should have pushed the issue, but honestly I just wanted to get out of there, so I let it go.

[@dresengineering]

Sue for malicious procecution/harassment. Your time and money was wasted to defend.

[@Locutus]

Why on Earth, would someone use a stock photo? That's so stupid. The person you're meant to show it to, would know if that's their garden or not...

[@jiefflerenard1228]

I was one charged with a case that did not existed a real Kafkaesque situation. Anybody who would look at it could see the nonsense. The cops forgot to stop and think for a second or did not want to. Not able to afford a lawyer I though to speak for a minute with the local DA, to my surprise he gave me 3 minutes on the spot. I explained the absurdity and the impossibility of the situation which he totally understood. I thought I was saved and he would make the case disappear , no way, he told me I should not confide in him because his job was not to make sense of it but to find me guilty no matter what. (I wish i had a recorder then) . I was so upset of the dishonesty of it all, I found a good lawyer, the only prosecution witness, unstable, turned for my defense and the judge dismissed the case, almost apologized for the BS .The lady prosecutor poor looser was pissed, face red , teeth clenched I think most DA are ego driven sociopaths. .

[@ksc826]

Years ago I was representing a defendant in an auto accident case. Discovery indicated that the plaintiff had, in the past, been involved in a number of rear end crashes. As part of the plaintiff’s case, they introduced a picture of the plaintiff with a neck brace on, allegedly because of the injuries sustained. For some unknown reason, I turned to photo over to see if there was anything on the back of the photo. Lo and behold there was a date stamp on the back from the photo lab showing that the photo was printed several months before the accident sued upon. In final argument I challenged the jury to return a verdict for the defendant, immediately. They were out less than 5 minutes before they knocked on the door indicating a verdict, which was for the defendant.

[@douglasphillips1203]

My dad was on a jury for a case like that. Small town, everyone knew the plaintiff was a crook, finally had a case that proved it. The entire jury didn't even leave the box - looked at each other & immediately found for the defendant. Judge told the plaintiff if he ever brought suit in the county again for an "injury", he'd personally help tar and feather him (that was off the record of course).

[@medea27]

Typography fans for the win! 👍 The devil is always in the detail... growing up alongside the tech evolution (from carbon-copy typewritten documents to inkjet printing & Photoshop) has come in very handy for me in detecting fraudulent documents like this, especially when I worked in banking. I identified numerous doctored bank statements & forms because I knew the different fonts & formatting they used from the 80's onward... dot matrix printouts are pretty distinctive too! If I was that mother I'd be checking all my bank balances and account authorities ASAP - speaking from experience, a son who's willing to sue his mother & submit fraudulent docs _to a court_ is likely to try forging his parents' signatures on other docs to try to get to that money.

[@johnclement5903]

Nothing beats the smell of fresh Ditto papers released during home room. Kids today dont know what their missing.

[@johnclement5903]

On the other hand, there's the rancid cat litter ammonia stench from a stack of real, actual Blueprints.

[@Troy_Built]

A timely video. We held a funeral yesterday. A couple of days ago document was produced was that gave nearly everything to one member of the family. It was decided that it would not be discussed until this coming week after the funeral. Everyone really doubts the authenticity of it but it will be produced and discussed at the deceased's lawyer's office this Wed. That is when the official reading of the will happens.

[@pedroarjona6996]

If the document is signed, as it should be, you can ask for a graphologist authentication of the signatures. They are extremely difficult to fake.

[@vincenthopkins6345]

My condolences for your loss, hopefully you will get the closure you need.

[@Rickettsia505]

In my years in healthcare, there were many incidents of unscrupulous family members trying to get signatures of very ill, and even unconscious patients. Some demanded that we stop pain medications to "wake them up". Others tried to steal the rings off the patients hands.

[@scvcebc]

@@Rickettsia505 That is sad, but sometimes there is a way to get final papers signed off humanely. An acquaintance with sudden, severe, abdominal pain was diagnosed with late stage cancer and was given a very short time to live on very short notice. She had young children and was going through a divorce, so there were a lot of legal matters to rush through. She was in such pain that she was kept too sedated to sign anything. Her parents, doctors and lawyers arranged for her to get a spinal block to allow the opioids to wear off long enough for her to have a few pain-free hours of consciousness so she could give her final goodbyes and also be recorded responding verbally to the legal matters. While a sad story, everyone there said she seemed relieved and at peace at the end. This technique might not work for a lot of elderly people, especially if they have dementia, but this woman was relatively young and healthy except for the aggressive cancer.

[@Rickettsia505]

@@scvcebc that was ethical. However, we healthcare workers have to be on the lookout for the sneaky ones.

[@ArnCital]

Many years ago (circa 1975) I dated a girl who worked for a loan processor for homes. She and her cohorts would forge documents by scribbling a signature and then running a copy in a serial fashion through the copy machine and 4 or 5 iterations later the newest copy was almost illegible and would go into the file as having been signed by the loan applicant.

[@wilfredvanvalkenburgh2874]

Many States have no statute of limitations on forgery.

[@elihernandez330]

He should absolutely get prison time for lying to the court and putting forth blatantly falsified evidence to pervert the court.

[@ninja1antelope]

This happened to me. A contractor submitted a contract that had highlight marks (printer) and different font. Came out the contractor copied my signature river to a modified contract. They still ran to claim bankruptcy… so got none of my money back.

[@robert5]

Lesson never lend any one any $$ unless they are willing to give you "Hard collateral", not promise it to you, sign it over into your name and you take possession. Something you can indeed quickly and easily sell for what is owed. The people asking for $$ will usually refuse, that is your clue to not lend them money. Yes, I did learn this the hard way. Now when ever anyone ask me for money I reply what do you have for collateral, oh, and it needs to be worth twice what your wanting to borrow. The answer is always no and then I reply your answer to borrow is no and then I don't have to put up with them coming back and asking anymore. Now I am known as the a-hole with money who wont lend any of it to anybody, I love that.

[@ninja1antelope]

@@robert5 it was a generational business well respected…. They didn’t advertise as their work did it for them….But also it was 2006. Right in the middle of the collapse.

[@jessicav2031]

These "Perry Mason" events do actually happen! I was once observing a DUI trial. The prosecutor was questioning the investigating officer and then went to introduce the blood testing.....objection your honor! Send out the jury! Turns out that a particular filing requirement for such tests had not been completed in time, and the law gave a hard deadline. The only remaining evidence was the typical "experience of the officer" observing the field sobriety tests. In the end the jury convicted anyway. Seemed pretty obvious that they relied on an assumption of what they were not allowed to hear, but that's juries for you.

[@simmogj]

On that FSTs are so prone to an officer's interpretation or eagerness to make a bust, meet kpi or revenue target. The accuracy is so unreliable they should be dropped.

[@bill9729]

I was involved in a similar case back in the late 1980's, before PCs and fonts were much of a thing. Plaintiff claimed that money he gave to defendant was a loan as opposed to an equity investment (which would have wiped him out in BK). He produced an allegedly contemporaneous handwritten diary in which he highlighted the portions that helped him, using a yellow highlighter. Problem was that the highlighter smeared the ink. Case was dismissed as sanction for falsifying evidence.

[@aurora4xabo665]

What does BK mean and stand for?

[@AndrewKay]

Probably bankruptcy.

[@siukong]

Shoutout to whoever at that firm was able to find that similar case to point to on such short notice!