Vigano is not a Catholic. Traditionalists are a different religion.

[@MeLLoStAr00]

How ironic is it when you say traditionalist want a new radical change for the catholic church when in reality they want to go back to the old traditional church that they once were if they wanted new change they wouldn't be traditionalist and what bases do you have to say they're all not gentle and charismatic?

[@Straight-Outta-Scripture]

I think a slight correction. Tradition exists in the now as it did then. We dont need to "go back" we just need to reinstate.

[@murphyorama]

I listened carefully to what you are saying. I'd like to know what your interest in Catholic theology is and why you believe yourself qualified to discuss it and why you lump all traditional Catholics as one group, which they most certainly are not.

[@challengable]

This young man is better suited for judging himself rather than others. May he spend his time moving closer to a life following and loving Christ as Vigano has. His apparent resentment is making his work here a waste of time to Catholicism. Don’t take him too seriously and support him in his journey toward the faith of our fathers. Pay him no mind. Pray for his continued conversion

[@dawidtrybula]

Mate, why don’t you just comment on something you have got a clue?

[@ricparks7441]

Because KZbin loves to let knuckleheads like this get on their website and spew any form of idiotic nonsense they can dream up!

[@mattt6355]

Need to be careful not to promote stereotypes about a group of people. Where I go to a traditional Mass all the people are very gentle, kind and welcoming. The topics you mention rarely ever come up in conversation.

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

I believe he's talking about rad trads, not all trads. The biggest issue with trads (not to be confused with sacred tradition or ecclesial tradition) is that they want to impose on others what and how they should operate, even when they're doing nothing inappropriate.

[@hiltonchapman4844]

@@EdwardBray-i1w Re your "...The biggest issue with trads ... is that they want to impose (their own views) on others..." That characterisation applies to any category of human being, not limited to "trads" of any stripe. HC-JAIPUR (12/Jul/2024) .

[@tomthx5804]

It depends. A lot of "trad" Catholics are very miserable people, obsessed with causing trouble, declaring themselves better than anyone else, and they like to start endless fights. I find them quite demonic. Yet, as you say, some are very fine people. But when you crawl into schism like they do, the devil has great power over them and corrupts them over time.

[@VivaCristoRei9]

agnostic yaps about apostolic theology (he has no idea what he's talking about)

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

No, he actually did say many correct things, and others, not so much. I think you'd be wise to, at least, listen and learn.

[@VivaCristoRei9]

@@EdwardBray-i1w list some examples of what you think is correct

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

Vigano is no longer a Catholic, you accuse the Pope of wrongdoings without proper evidence, that you misnomered "trads" are not following true Sacred Tradition just your own idea of tradition, you reject or reform your own interpretation of Christ's proclamation that "thisnis my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail againstbher," etc.

[@VivaCristoRei9]

@@EdwardBray-i1w sede vacante

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

@@VivaCristoRei9 you're a sede, then?

[@marcokite]

You seem a really nice guy but I have NEVER heard such drivel in my life. You ignore the fact that the Latin Mass in the west and the Divine Liturgy in the east grew slowly over 300-400 years under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The banal Vatican II liturgy was quickly written in the 1960s by committees which included protestants! Since when has a committee come up with something Divine? Come on brother.

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

Pretty sure he's a witness. He has mentioned somethings that are very much witness dynamics, and absolutely not Catholic

[@TheGringoSalado]

Great Books (nope modern man doesn’t need) Great Liturgy (nope modern man doesn’t need) This young man’s intellect, as with most of us in the west has been formed in such a way. The result: perfect consumers

[@MasterKeyMagic]

Acts 15

[@tomthx5804]

No one may reject the Novus Ordo. If you do, you are evil beyond evil.

[@TheGringoSalado]

@@tomthx5804 😂

[@jeanpollock3206]

Dear Sir, I understand that it's tempting to have people listen to you and to be "popular" ... but please - educate yourself on the Catholic Faith. Consider that anyone you wrongly influence, you will be responsible for. Read the Alta Vendita. Please.

[@stsplit8973]

You told him well. Just like that, he talks about the Catholic Church, which he knows nothing about.

[@brewcity2317]

😆😆😆 Yeah... you look like the quintessential intellectual, and theologian, in that T-shirt and jacket. Let me guess... you're a rival to St. Thomas Aquinas?

[@whiterose41380]

Your ad hominem speaks volumes, and gives your side no more credence

[@brewcity2317]

@@whiterose41380, is this "your side's" theme song: *Gnarls Barkley - Crazy (Official Video) [4K Remaster]*

[@whiterose41380]

@@brewcity2317 not sure what that video is, all I know is I’m in communion with the pope and his bishops, and therefore Christ

[@brewcity2317]

@@whiterose41380, yeah, Orthodox Greeks, Orthodox Russia, would dispute that. The Novus Ordo is Lutheran. And my liberal Catholic mother told me that. She supports the Novus Ordo and holds staunchly to the belief that the Catholic Church made a huge error when the Church adopted things from ancient Rome, like vestments, of the Basilica architecture, and I hazard a guess the Latin Language. She also told me, before Obama got elected, that Obama was using the Community Activist strategies she her self was trained in during her younger years. My mother can't imagine anyone outside the Catholic Church could go to hell except maybe Adolf Hitler and child killers, women having abortions except. I trust my mother when she says the Novus Ordo is Lutheran. And unlike "Conservative Catholics" (not Traditionalist) I know what people like you are up to. You all are using Catholic teachings against loyalist of Christ. Traditionalist are in union with Christ, not you, not Ciaphas, not the Devil, not Martin Luther, not Judas the Betrayer. I suspect Bergoglio is not even the Pope. I have no problem using Inquisition, which has been done to Vigano, to rid all Liberal Catholics from the Church. Christ is King.

[@Alfieruben-j1l]

This here is living proof that Empty vessels make the most noise.

[@tomthx5804]

Yes - Vigano is an empty vessel

[@dreamhigh-g3p]

"THE DRAGONS OF VICTORY" YES YOU ARE A DRAGON. I'M GLAD YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE A "DRAGON". I'LL PRAY FOR YOUR SALVATION DUDE.

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

He may be representing a video game with colorful animated dragons as the characters.

[@josephmoore5949]

I was going to listen to what you had to say, but then I read the following: "If you are a traditional catholic who supports Archbishop Vigano, I as an agnostic am more catholic than you." Not going to convince people to your viewpoint with that kind of arrogance.

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

It's simply true because I'm more in union with the pope.

[@whiterose41380]

⁠​⁠@@TheDragonsofVictoryI would say this is probably true only if you are baptized and confirmed in the church. Otherwise I would put you both on about the same level, though you just might have more faith than they do

[@TheGringoSalado]

2:17 this young man is what makes of Sophists

[@user-mj4nc1lg4h]

this video is proof that the way is narrow and its better to be safe than sorry and be a traditional catholic thank you.

[@marcokite]

You're right! Traditional Catholics ARE a different religion because they're ACTUAL ROMAN CATHOLICS. The problem of course is the Vatican II Church of Pope Francis which has separated from the 2,000 year tradition of the Roman Catholic Church. I assume you're an agnostic of some kind? maybe New Age? One day I suggest you explore Orthodoxy.

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

He sounds like a Jehovah's witness

[@mbioneda]

OMG. I absolutely disagree with you announcing that Traditionalist are a different religion. Study first the Catholic Theology and research further since Catholic Traditionalist will never get out of the Catholic Faith and are even willing to be persecuted or became martyrs just to defend the Catholic Faith/Church founded by Christ. If you have an ax to grind or disagreement with Archbishop Vigano , I as Traditionalist Catholics and other Traditionalist should not be singled out and generalized by your belief .I am not a privy to whatever personal motive you have in mind or believe in something.

[@abcxyz12335]

I agree absolutely. You, Mr. Dragon, know nothing of the Catholic faith. You better get off this channel with your false videos and incorrect information. Don't make money out of Abp Vigano's excommunication order.

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

He is correct. Traditionalism is NOT sacred tradition. It's fundamentally Prot theology and false ecclisiology. It's similar to the points schismatic Orthodox profess.

[@RebekahArmusik]

Novus Ordo is the ‘new’ religion. This stance in itself is heretical speak.

[@Sicilian1S]

Catholic church was not founded by Christ, the catholic church was currupt from the begining. Jesus is the rock not peter.

[@Sicilian1S]

​. Catholicism was false from the beginning. Look at the catholic inquisition. Lasted 600 years in 15 countrys burningand killing Christians ,jews Muslims. .

[@R14-m4z]

Get your T levels checked ASAP bro.

[@duaneadams5210]

Traditionalists are NOT a different religion. We are what we were for centuries. We' are NOT the ones who changed, that's why we are called "Traditionalists" and did not introduce anything new. You are the one who changed and abandoned what we were and now you have the nerve to say we are a "different religion" ??????

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

Stubborness is not a virture. We must sometimes adapt.

[@RaffyJoaquin]

@@TheDragonsofVictory Are you saying Roman Catholicism is evolutionary and adaptive?

[@RaffyJoaquin]

Right on @duaneadams.

[@RaffyJoaquin]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3u7ZKKOgdishpIsi=snNWw49HMXTZuYDn pretty much answers everything you tried to state. Not trying to pick a fight. Genuinely worried about folks like you. By the way...Dragons have always typically been associated with the Devil and the demonic. You might want to consider changing your channel name.

[@robbyjenkins7339]

adapt from tradition ?

[@NewMediaNewsKB]

Another pope Splainer?

[@louisramos90]

Nonsense

[@portagoosey]

Wow, you have some nerve judging traditional Catholics when you're not even a Catholic! Let's all listen to the weird dragon guy with the funky hobbies. That's very important ya'll!

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

He's smart. Super ignorant of the faith. But cunning enough to have set this whole thing up as a means to grow a channel based on strong controversy and in the process cause further division within the church, and potentially earn money if he can trigger enough people.

[@PoppiD93]

Are you envious of Viganò because he had the balls to defend the truth and you don't?

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

Sure, I don't have the balls as an agnostic to admit Vigano, a non catholic (he officially is) is right about Francis not being the pope.

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

Yeah, Vigano is NOT defending anything except McCarrick. He was defending McCarrick.

[@tonysabell7737]

You seem an intelligent man. And a well meaning one. Bergoglio is a usurper. He is not really the pope and if he was canonically elected it was through a corrupt institutional church that he became pope. He has sold out to the world. That's not Catholic. He has made a deal with secular powers and thus alienated himself from his office and his God.

[@PoppiD93]

@@TheDragonsofVictory How is Viganò non catholic? And how is Francis?

[@PoppiD93]

@@EdwardBray-i1w Are you high? Viganò accused McCarrick.

[@johncurry6260]

Satan is referred to as a Dragon in Revelation/ the Apocalypse, a liar and a murderer. You should also know the Dragon loses.

[@elizabethwallace-donnelly.2356]

My GOD. You know nothing about Catholics... Unbelievable. 😮😮😮.

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

He's on obviously not. He uses witness lingo.

[@martinzfjr]

Hey bro. I'm Catholic but got swept up into the whole trad movement years ago and got out about two years ago. Just wanted to cheer you on and thank you for your work. A philosopher who helped me get out of the movement (who ironically attended Latin mass) is Rene Girard. Look him up and read about the scapegoat mechanism and mimetic rivalry. It explains so much about the trad movement and other ideologies. Keep it up!

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

Thank you brother!

[@MatejKovacicIllustrator]

You’re the dragon, like the devil?

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

More like Spyro

[@chanchingcheng8204]

​@@TheDragonsofVictorygayest reaction one could imagine

[@marcokite]

@@TheDragonsofVictory - erm....St Paul DID meet the Lord Jesus Christ (who you call 'Jesus') on the road to Damascus.

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

@@marcokite He said he saw a bright light and heard a voice. After Jesus had ascended. That's not meeting Jesus the person.

[@tomthx5804]

Because your Vigano is demonic, and you love him so much, you have devils on the brain.

[@MasterKeyMagic]

Im with you against the reactionaries but that doesn't mean jump off the ark.

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

Where's the flood?

[@MasterKeyMagic]

@@TheDragonsofVictory Entropy

[@CuellarDesi]

The crusades were a necessary response to the Muslim expansion. As a soldier I can tell you that atrocities always happen in war no matter how much you try to avoid them. It’s the terrible side of the reality of war and should never be justified. I don’t understand your statement when you said that traditional Catholics try to glorify or make excuses for the crusades and the inquisition and all the horrific human rights abuses that took place” you’re conflating the necessity of the crusades with the systemic persecution within the Christian community that was the inquisition.

[@allabouttruth4547]

Watch Pax Tubes videos on the Inquisition and Crusades, both were entirely justified

[@protasiocanalita6436]

Nice try dude, if course you know that you are saying a spsnder and a lie. There are consequences with your words .the more people read you newsthe more feathers you accumulate to your one sake of feathers .enjoy your life ok. It doesn't get any better that this lifetime.

[@doloressoriano6535]

Ur young my dear read history. U hve too many cobwebs in ur mind. Clear n clean ur mind pls

[@Jerds]

That’s truly not a fair assessment as the Holy Father just met with the Institute of Christ the King and has reaffirmed several times that the FSSP and the Institute are good to keep doing their thing. The problem is a subset of “traditionalists” which aren’t a different “religion” per se, but are a radical, schismatic, and break away group that do not fully adhere to Catholic doctrine. There are plenty of traditionalists that are in full communion with the church, Byzantine and the approved Latin mass groups. The cult of vigano and those like him are the issue. It’s not good to lump everyone together like that cause it’s just plain not accurate

[@mussman717word]

AMEN! I'm a Norvus Ordo bro myself, but I like the mod Trads who don't go off the deep end. It's a shame that so many freaks have hijacked your side of things online, the Taylor Marshall clones and whatnot.

[@cindymay4606]

Like you are qualified in something you dont even know about. You were not born in the vatican 2 era and have no idea about the latin mass..

[@hillhokan4378]

traditionalist are in a different religion by following what the church always teached. Yeah, a different religion from the heresies of the second vatican council, we are following the true catholic religion.

[@DrexelGregory]

Vigano is a disgruntled former employee

[@Catholic-orthodox824]

Exactly. God's in control. God doesn't need you to inflict justice here on earth on his enemies. Trust in God's divine Justice. If Pope Francis dies unrepentant then God will inflict Divine Justice. So there is zero need for you to slander and go on the offensive towards those who are enemies of Christ. Allow God to do that. Focus on your own repentance, focus on getting rid off your vices and live a Holy life. May Christ Almighty Bless you and your loved ones, Amen 🙏

[@bernardbujard9944]

I am a cradle catholic, and I think you're right. And, God will prevail! Pope Francis is our Pope. Whomever is against him is not united to our Catholic Church which is the True Church: The only Church Jesus Christ has given us to follow Him and be truly His friends and be happy forever. It's all in the Bible, in the Cathechism of the Catholic Church, and in the Magisterium of the Catholic Church which has been inspired by The Holy Spirit. Our happiness is to receive Our Lord in The Holy Eucharist.

[@Jimboken1]

Profoundly ignorant drivel. And our Faith is not personality driven.

[@stellar6072]

Thank goodness he's not catholic...he now has a chance to be saved.

[@Alfieruben-j1l]

You’d be funny pal , if you weren’t so tragic 😢

[@stellar6072]

@@Alfieruben-j1l not trying to be funny…trying to lead Catholics to repentance

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

​@@stellar6072 This is just sad....How many have you saved?

[@stellar6072]

@@user-cg8if3eq7d I agree it's sad. ANY biblical Christian knows God does the calling, and Christ does the saving. NOT the pope....

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

The sad thing is your blatant ignorance. No catholic alive believes the pope saves anyone ​@@stellar6072

[@joelpenley9791]

“He is not a Catholic, because he was just excommunicated. Officially.” Thank you for letting me know that you have no idea what you are talking about. Only had to waste 1 minute of time.

[@mussman717word]

He's not at all wrong about that. It's just a factual statement.

[@TheGringoSalado]

Brother you defend a materialist Protestant version of Catholicism

[@mussman717word]

@@TheGringoSalado You defend a schismatic protestant like Viganò, kid. Pssht! 💩

[@a.t.c.3862]

Dear Dragons of Victory, thank you for your contribution in defence of the Church and the Successor of Peter. From the comments by rabid tradestants, you are clearly hitting the spot. Please keep doing it. May the Lord continue to guide you.

[@CapturingDemons]

This man is not your ally. He is not pro-Catholic of any stripe. He is a secular progressive.

[@tomthx5804]

Vigano is just nuts.

[@Nilunam]

I agree 100% with you about Vigano and the schismatics but I respectfully disagree with you regarding the Crusades. Historical facts reveal the Crusades were initiated in response to centuries of the muslim wars of expansion that resulted in the subjugation of christian lands by force.

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

True. These were native Christians who wanted to defend their homes from foreign invaders.

[@foxx441]

Wow…this was the most ignorant, uninformed commentary on a Catholic issue that I’ve ever heard on KZbin. Do yourself a favour, and do some In depth reading on traditional Catholicism befor you embarrass yourself further. So wrong on so many levels..Sad.

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

I don't have to read anything, I lived it

[@CuellarDesi]

Also the church Jesus was speaking of was our faith. That’s why he uses the metaphor of the rock as he’s used the metaphor for building your house on a foundation of stone. And why he names Peter Little Rock in Greek after he said he believes Jesus is God through faith not proof. The gates of hell can not triumph against your faith. But you can’t see that fact if you look to the church for salvation. And as far as you’re statements that everyone’s religious claim to feeling connected to god is equally valid yet the pope is the end all be all … lol man you are lost. I pray you wake up and open your eyes but you’re so confused about so many things that it seems you’re just making things up as you talk.

[@Sicilian1S]

Peter is not the rock, Jesus is always the rock. Catholics are currupt from the begining 600 years of the inquisition, now you're the true church. We are not filtered through a catholic church. I am free on christ. I'm not praying to mary or going to purgatory. This is insane

[@whiterose41380]

Your position has no ground in historical christianity, and was made up to justify the protestant revolution

[@patriciagrenier9082]

HE IS A CATHOLIC ❤ unlike the false heretic francis, who excommunicated himself 🙏

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

Who, THIS guy? The video kid? No, he's not, he stated clearly he is agnostic

[@mussman717word]

You silly prot.

[@mussman717word]

Silly pr💩t.

[@WhiteLightning777]

Pope Francis and Vigano are some of the main reasons I decided to become Orthodox instead!! No human except Christ is infallible.

[@mussman717word]

That's like going on a hunger strike because you don't like marinara sauce (Francis) or vomit (Viganò).

[@WhiteLightning777]

@@mussman717word Actually, I genuinely love Orthodoxy. The divine liturgy is to die for!! Besides, this IS the original church. They refrained from being swept up by the Vatican, which is purely man made. I'm Antiochian to be exact.

[@mussman717word]

@@WhiteLightning777 They do have beautiful liturgies from what I can tell, but it's important not to get too carried away with aesthetics. That's what's happening to the V(omit)iganò folks I mentioned above. I love my Orthodox brothers and sisters, and I pray for an end to schism nearly everyday. That said, they uphold some pretty basic theological doctrines that fly right in the face of even the Eastern Fathers, i.e. denial of the filioque and the Immaculate Conception. I presume by "the Vatican," you're referring to papal infallibility? If that concept is "man-made," then why do the first seven ecumenical councils affirm Roman primacy? Have you ever read them before? Are you aware that Eastern Catholic rites exist that also have incredible liturgies but are in full communion with Rome? I really don't mean to come at you too hard, but this is important stuff. I'll be praying for you. God bless!

[@WhiteLightning777]

@@mussman717word I've read those, no indication whatsoever that Rome was anything other then another Holy See before the schism. The filioque is just a poison pill designed to sow division. It has zero theological value. It worked with diabolical efficiency!!

[@MT0707]

I just subscribed to your channel. Rock on, brother.

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

Thank you Mr Fox!

[@MT0707]

@@TheDragonsofVictory don't be discouraged by the comments. You speak calmly and rationally. The comments are angry and without any hint of wanting a reasonable conversation. Yet they claim that you lack theological training or understanding. Typical actually. I used to be staunch trad catholic, too.

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

@@MT0707 I'm mostly just entertained by the commentary. And it helps prove my case so well. But it's still nice to get a little positive in there too so I greatly appreciate you becoming a Dragon!

[@MT0707]

@@TheDragonsofVictory yes, the comments are very entertaining. Nothing you've said is wrong. That's what I experienced, too. Granted I was not part of a community like you were. Nevertheless, I faithfully attended TLM. When I was a seminarian I would sneak out of the seminary to attend TLM. My mind was formed in the traditional Catholicism and you're very right the obsession with sex is so prevailing in trad communities and very damaging to the psyche. I don't know where I am now. I still attend Novus Ordo Mass but I'm finding too many problems in the church. It's actually scary to think of the possibility of leaving the church. I've spent so many years learning, out of my own volition, about theology and so much energy spent on trying to be a "good Catholic" and never fully finding peace living under the threat of going to hell and feeling "not good enough" for God to love me.

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

@@MT0707 I feel ya brother. I felt the exact same way for a very long time. What I can say is that I don't know if God exists I just know their version of him doesn't.

[@gnomueaux]

Dripped out as usual

[@TheDragonsofVictory]

You need swag when you're stickin it to the man

[@Mooseman327]

Frankie Bergoglio is not a Catholic. But you can pray for his conversion.

[@mussman717word]

You're such a schismatic 💩

[@mussman717word]

You're a schismatic 💩

[@jperez7893]

at least you give a fair judgement that the viganites are schismatic and not catholic. because love him or loathe him, francis is still the pope, and to be catholic is to be in communion with the pope - that is the distinguishing and overriding difference between everybody else

[@chanchingcheng8204]

Mate stop inventing words wtf is a viganite, ... Jperezites need to be stopped!

[@andrewmarvell4604]

Podex perfectus est.

[@clarkkent5442]

I'm trying to figure out where he stands. yes, these traditional American catholics are teetering on outright pprotestantism. a lot are already sedevacantists and the rest are almost there. but he seems to be very agnostic on mainstream Novus Ordo mass. has he left the church all together? you don't know where he's at besides a critic of the American traditional Latin mass.

[@user-cg8if3eq7d]

He is agnostic. He said so

[@inregnumdei]

Vigano is awful, but that doesn’t change how awful of a pope Francis has been. It doesn’t change the rightful criticisms of the righteous bishops that actually value the Church’s real moral mission. It’s not the “traditionalists.” It’s literally any orthodox, conservative Catholic in the hierarchy. Pope Francis has encouraged confusion which is clear enough to anyone watching. I guess Brian Holdsworth is just some religious bigot without any degree of tact or moderation. Or literally any Catholic cleric or layman who was not a heretic pre-1920. Also, you’re incredibly presumptuous about the reason people find the TLM beautiful. It’s the mass of the saints and the Novus Ordo is too when done reverently. What I admire about the TLM is I know I will find reverence for the Eucharist, the peak and summit of Christian life. The TLM is the mass that brought Aquinas and Pio to tears among others for the beauty of it. “Traditional Catholicism” is like saying Conservative Conservatism. This is ridiculous hatred on your part.

[@PoppiD93]

How is Viganò awful?

[@inregnumdei]

@@PoppiD93 He’s an open schismatic. And just schizo.

[@EdwardBray-i1w]

​@PoppiD93 he's a heretic trying to establish a parallel church with him as a Pope, professes heretical.views, played defense to McCarrick and tried to blame Pope Francis when it was him. There is a lot of bad with Vigano.

[@mussman717word]

Francis has been great. If you're confused, then it's your own fault.

[@inregnumdei]

@@mussman717word Vatican finances and actually orthodox bishops disagree.