Viking Weapons and Combat, Part 2 (with William R. Short)

William R. Short of Hurstwic (hurstwic.com) answers questions about Viking weapons, iron-making, and combat from Patreon supporters of Dr. Jackson Crawford (University of Colorado) in a Patreon-exclusive Crowdcast conversation recorded July 30, 2021. William R. Short and Reynir A Óskarson's new book, "Men of Terror: A Comprehensive Analysis of Viking Combat," is available soon: www.hurstwic.com/shop/books/men_of_terror/index.htm
For more about Hurstwic and Viking-age weapons and combat, visit hurstwic.com
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Hurstwic on KZbin: kzbin.info
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawford.com/ (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
Jackson Crawford’s Patreon page: www.patreon.com/norsebysw
Visit Grimfrost at www.grimfrost.com?aff=183
Latest FAQs: vimeo.com/375149287 (updated Nov. 2019).
Jackson Crawford’s translation of Hávamál, with complete Old Norse text: www.hackettpublishing.com/the-wanderer-s-havamal-4275 or www.amazon.com/Wanderers-Havamal-Jackson-Crawford/dp/1624668356/
Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Poetic Edda: www.hackettpublishing.com/the-poetic-edda or www.amazon.com/Poetic-Edda-Stories-Hackett-Classics/dp/1624663567/
Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/The-Poetic-Edda-Audiobook/1982597550?qid=1542115406
Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Saga of the Volsungs: www.hackettpublishing.com/the-saga-of-the-volsungs-4098 or www.amazon.com/Saga-Volsungs-Lothbrok-Hackett-Classics/dp/1624666337/
Audiobook: www.audible.com/pd/The-Saga-of-the-Volsungs-Audiobook/B07L44HRNH
Music © I See Hawks in L.A., courtesy of the artist. Visit www.iseehawks.com/
Logos by Elizabeth Porter (snowbringer at gmail).

[@rellsw02]

You can tell that viking age history Is his passion. If you mention anything about that time period, he will go on for hours full of excitement.

[@saftobulle]

Just a conversation between Santa Claus and a cowboy. Epic.

[@aesir1ases64]

A cowboy and Santa Claus talking about Vikings, now thats a cool scenario!

[@peterplotts1238]

Yeah. Imagine Santa Land decorated with skulls.

[@Stephen_Curtin]

Many people have brought up Roland Warzecha's work and point to it as being a better interpretation of Viking Age combat. I am fairly skeptical of the idea that Norsemen were particularly brutal in their combat methods, but I am still looking forward to reading this new book. I sometimes think Roland takes certain ideas too far, so it will be nice to hear ideas from the opposite end of the scale. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

[@jd10410696]

I was thinking the same thing

[@TheBottegaChannel]

Thank you to both professors for taking the time out of your schedules to talk on such fascinating topics. Gotta say though, from my personal research I've found an easy way to explain how a sword is balanced to a person. Lighter hilt to blade ratio: provides less counter balance to a lever action. Makes a blade act like a cleaver or machete. Hilt that weighs 1/3 of total weight: Allows blade to shift fulcrum on various axis most efficiently, akin to chefs knife being held at the bolster. Heavy hilt to blade ratio: Causes blade to seem overly light and requires over correction in order to be used properly ( in long blades). Think pocket knife or pairing knife for small knives or holding a hammer upside down ( striking face forward) just under the head and the bottom of the handle sticking up. Hope this helps!

[@Redfield70]

Just preordered it. GREAT Q&A!

[@Tina06019]

We met Dr. Bill Short at the Higgins museum years ago. That led us to buy his book, Viking Weapons and Combat Techniques. His research is truly in-depth. Thank you for doing another discussion with him, Dr. Crawford.

[@jacobanderson7006]

Happily back for part two. I am excited for this book to come out.

[@vikingshaggy2786]

I never knew swords were more common. That's good to know

[@ArtyFartyBart]

Thanks for the amazing and informative video Drs.

[@ericraymond3734]

I've learned how to use swords with a similar weight and length to Viking-era swords. What contributes to the agility of a weapon is (a) lightness, and (b) a balance point closer to the hilt rather than far down towards the tip. Conversely, a heavy weapon with a balance point towards the point will deliver more power in a chopping or slashing blow.

[@MichaelLoda]

The book looks very interesting, something that I was looking for, gonna buy probably. Also I love Will's beard, I want to have such too when I get older

[@datmofugga]

Dr short is a great guy. I have met him multiple times. This book is a great book to read

[@peterplotts1238]

I had no idea that the Vikings were also skilled rock chunkers. Men after my own heart.

[@Sindraug25]

At what point did they lash the ships together? Were there people who would do it while everyone else was fighting before joining in themselves, or was there a mutual understanding that the boats get bound together before any fighting starts?

[@snailmessia]

DUDES! How about some lectures in Scandinavia???

[@jeffberry5773]

Guys, thank you for this in depth discussion! I have one comment as a former Army guy with some combat experience; deception is the goal you want to induce in your opposition. That can come from improvisation but having a system probably passed down from father to son to defeat the opponent and be drengr seems to be the goal….

[@blakewinter1657]

I'm pleased to see that Mr. Short has said that the hammer grip was likely used. I have very little experience using these swords, but the little I hvae done did suggest that a hammer grip would be very effective. I actually think the short grip works very well for this - compare it to the Indian and Afghan Tulwar/Pulwar sword! But Mr. Short has done far more research on it, and I am excited to see what the book has to say about this.

[@damonhawkes2057]

Gotta say though this is great stuff, it's obvious William R. Short is not deeply entrenched in actual swordfighting, which makes it a bit awkward when he is talking about the subject. Of course no written sources exist for viking swordsmanship like they do with later medieval manuscripts from italy and germany, but if you use a viking sword and actually practice HEMA and sparring with it (like many historians and HEMA enthusiasts here on youtube who specialize in swordsmanship) a couple things become apparent: 1. About viking grips: yes 4 inches is enough to get your hand around the grip. Making many proper cuts/swings with it is another matter, you quickly realize that as your wrist rotates the pommel digs into your hand with the swing, eventually causing bruising and blisters. You aren't just holding a sword, you're using it. He says "exotic" grips aren't necessary. Well, finding the most effective grip IS necessary to understanding how a viking would have used their sword. There has been a ton of research into this as he says himself, but then he discounts it all just because that isn't the grip that delivers the most power. Again, you're not using a baseball bat. A medium power but properly done cut with a good slicing draw and edge alignment will do way more damage than a clumsy but powerful "hammer strike" as he puts it. 2. He talks about measuring the "destructive energy" a sword blow delivers. But of course a sword isn't a blunt object, it's power comes from it's ability to cut. Edge alignment, the draw of the cut and more are determining factors in an effective sword blow. You aren't smacking something with a baseball bat, you are making a cut, with a rotation to it, using as much of the blade to deepen the cut in a slicing motion as possible. I'm not trying to hate on him or anything I just wanted to point out a couple of nitpicks because I'm a nerd. I'm also not a historian just a sword and history enthusiast, this is just my take. It was a great video and I will probably give his book a read.

[@PalleRasmussen]

I very much agree. Roland would have been a much better choice for a guest. He is the expert on Norse swordsmanship.

[@damonhawkes2057]

@@PalleRasmussen I'd say beyond the specifics of swordfighting it seems like he did extremely thorough and robust research, I really like his approach of layering evidence. And I assume when you say Roland you mean Roland Warzecha? If so I think that would be a very cool guest to interview on here, but of course he is not a historian in the same sense. I am glad this interview happened as well.

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@damonhawkes2057 yes I mean Roland Warzecha (I wrote the full name and linked to his channel in a post below), my friend since 1996.

[@damonhawkes2057]

@@PalleRasmussen no way, that’s cool. I watch almost all his videos. Huh I can't see your post in the comments for some reason.

[@PalleRasmussen]

@@damonhawkes2057 Strange. I can assure you that he is a very nice guy. I met him on the competetive "Western Style" reenactment scene, which is where he started. He did find our lack of use of sources and limited target zones frustrating though, so he started looking into those two things and eventually focused on I33. I quite like him.

[@ofoten7054]

It would have been interesting to see Q&A with Frode Iversen - Museum of Cultural History.

[@samp9418]

This was really interesting ^_^

[@deananderson827]

Regarding the discussion about Women Viking warriors discussed starting at 54m, some might find this text interesting from a leading Russian/Central Asian scholar given the links Vikings had with Central Asia. It is directly relevant, of course, to Classical reports of Amazons but there may be some similarities with Vikings. "In the last decade a considerable quantity of female burials with weapons dating from the 4th century B.C. have been uncovered. For the most part they are amongst the burials of ordinary nomads, more rarely amongst those of more well-to-do nomads. In a number of burial grounds the graves of armed women make up as much as 37 percent of the overall number of female graves. Most often, as is also the case with the male burials of ordinary Scythians, only arrows are found in these burials; but there are female burials which contain a more or less full range of weapons including, along with arrows, one or two spears and, rarely, a sword… The presence of armed women in the ranks of nomadic societies of the Middle Ages allows us to suppose that the presence of armed women in Scythian society is to be explained by a specific historical situation, associated first and foremost with the particularities of the life of nomads. When the free male population was engaged in fighting wars, the organization of the herds and nomadic home rested with the women. So it was necessary for women to have weapons and to know how to use them." (Sinor 1990: 106) Sinor, Denis. The Cambridge History of Early Inner Asia. Vol. 1. Cambridge University Press, 1990.

[@cesar_145]

Just stumbble uppon this docuvideo. Very interesting. I'm an archaeologist with 27 years of field resech in the mayan area. I hope I could talk to you and the specialist you invited. I hope you will answer.

[@ericraymond3734]

Listing to this, I'm thinking that a good English translation of "drengr" would be "steadfast".

[@jerryjonas8178]

When speaking of Vikings, are they talking of all the Scandinavians or just the raiders?

[@andrewlerdard-dickson5201]

Mr William Short of Hurstwic......l have just ordered Two of your publication's as of this date 28.4.2022....."Viking Weapon's and Men of Terror"......have you read "The Viking Art of War" by Paddy Griffith ? And as soon as I am able to obtain some of your DVD's in a region 4 format .....l will obtain !! At least with book's one doesn't need to concern themselves with a worthless dust collection.

[@md_f_dnn]

U should check out glima, apparently it's a style of wrestling that claims to have it's origins with the vikings

[@datmofugga]

The book speaks on glima

[@GreatistheWorld]

Interestingly the background on how these women would go to war, daughter of nobility that adopts a wholly male identity only to return when the job was done, is exactly how the historical Mulan played out. And she did so for ten years, as the story tells it, her former comrades were surprised to find out she was a woman

[@karamlevi]

When it’s cold... power moves are easier then subtle ones.

[@sirseigan]

Intresting that Drengr here is described almost identical (not exactly but very similar to) how the world "karl" is used (at least in rural Sweden) as it has an element of fullfilling the "manly ideal" (where trustworthiness and dependability is crucial) rather the just the gender. I also wonder if there is an element of service in the meaning of drengr, that is not part of karl. I wonder this because in Swedish a karl is per definition independent in nature, only bound by his word. However a "dräng" is in a modern context a farmhand, a free man but employed rather the employeer. Further I wonder if other "folk-wrestling" of Scandinavia then Glíma has been looked at? For example "ryggtag" (back grabbing) known fron the Gutish games or "kragkast" (collar throw) etc. Another interesting obsevation/reflection is that the word "fáng" which in modern Swedish would be "fång". That is still used in the setence "slå fång på" which means to grab someone (or something) by on the move throw ones arms around them/it and hold on (for all you are worth). It is also part of the words "fånga" (to catch) or "fånge" (prisoner). As such any grappling make sense to be named fång/fáng/fong 🙂

[@vikingshaggy2786]

25:12 sword talk

[@weonanegesiscipelibba2973]

44th gemyne

[@demon13doc]

In my profession we call them "Battle Buddies." That's what Drengr brings to my mind anyway.

[@Alphqwe]

Jackson Crawford, would Beowulf be considered drengr? I know that he's most likely legendary but the tail was widely told and believed in.

[@grimble4564]

Considering that his character was defined by being reliable, courageous, and extremely capable, I'd say yeah. I think drengr probably equates best to the modern idea of a man's man, and beowulf was all about being there for the homies and never skimping out on an opportunity to prove himself.

[@seanbeadles7421]

Love seeing scholarly discussion and perspectives on ancient combat…refreshing compared to the many HEMA types on this platform that have no methods yet claim to be valid experimental archaeology..

[@insaneweasel1]

The statement that Vikings believed that all attacks should be at full power is contrary to the writing of a late medieval fencing master named fiore de liberi. He states that over committing to a strike can leave you open to a lethal counter attack. And my experience doing medieval fencing this is correct, and since human nature is not fundamentally different now than it was 1200 years ago I suspect that the Vikings in practical combat probably had similar opinions.

[@dirksharp9876]

I also don't like how he tries to relate every part of their existence to agricultural work. It seems obvious they would have invested a great deal of time in martial training.

[@bond_3239]

@@dirksharp9876 but that’s what the sagas state. Vikings were part-time warriors who spent the bulk of their time fishing and farming. Post Migration-Period Scandinavia didn’t have standing armies. Did they train with their weapons? Certainly. But everyone owned an axe, and usually a spear, both of which have function outside of a martial nature.

[@dirksharp9876]

@@bond_3239 The sagas don't state that. Some of the sagas certainty do but you can't possibly read like the Volsung Saga and say "wow these were all just good simple farmer boys" or something like that it's asinine. If you were a jarl, the bulk of your warriors were freemen and most would have worked the land or fished or something as the years passed. But I highly doubt a jarl or free man working those fields would look at working the land as anything but a necessity, much less as a virtue or a way that relate. When the work was done it was done, when there was a harvest, sacrifice to Freyr or whomever and that's it until next spring. People don't realize how much downtime would have came from that, these were not specialized fields of work or the equivalent to modern wage work where people work 40 hours a week doing one position year-round. Vikings would have been training for battle, learning about ships and how to build and maintain them, smithing, how to trade well, surviving off the land, etc. Until they took on a wife or wives. Even then I doubt they would want to farm very much if they were successful. Look at all those Gothic cathedrals from around Europe and consider how every class, from lords to the lowliest peasants contributed to the building of those beautiful structures -- they achieved this without computers or industrial machines and tools. It took generations to build just one, but that's how much down time from agricultural work people had back then.

[@bond_3239]

@@dirksharp9876 nothing in my response hinted that I thought they were “simple farm boys,” or that jarls employed slaves as soldiers. Aside from that, I appreciate your long-winded backing up of exactly what I stated- Norse people were primarily farmers and fishermen, and went out viking to make their fortunes. And the Vikings that raided (instead of traded) were doing so as much for new farmland as they were for silver. And, again, the sagas DO state they were farmers, ESPECIALLY the Icelandic sagas, where so-and-so were constantly ambushing their neighbors in their farms, or raiding the neighbor’s farm over a slight or insult. So much so that the Icelandic government has archaeologists that will, today, take you on tours of the farms the sagas took place at, as their ruins remain and are quite visible. Sorry, but average Vikings were primarily farmers. It’s in the historical record.

[@dirksharp9876]

@@bond_3239 no need to get defensive, Mr. Small here puts too much emphasis on domestic utility was my point. Didn't read most of your post btw.

[@oberonking471]

Lost. In. The. Process

[@madbikerwolf8664]

Thank you for the video, Dr. Crawford. Two suggestions for the future: When a guest is speaking for a longer time (more than a minute), go to single panel and instead of split panel. Second, move the camera just a bit farther away. Place it where you'd like another person to be standing if you were speaking face-to-face (pre-mask). Along with that, remind the guests who are active speakers that they should be even farther back from the camera so it does not seem as if they are about to jump through the camera. (I realize that your guest's setup is out of your control for the most part.) I make these suggestions with the intention of helping your channel be more pleasing to the audience and thus increasing their reach. I appreciate the work you do and enjoy your content. Thank you.

[@radagast7200]

Nah. I enjoy this look. Adds character.

[@Tina06019]

You aren’t wrong, but I like this split screen just fine. Maybe it would be a little better if Dr. Short had been sitting about 8 inches further back from his camera, though.

[@ericraymond3734]

The Vikings couldn't adopt Eastern-style composite bows because the sinew-based glues used to hold them together degrade rapidly in a moist Northern European climate.

[@sirseigan]

Perhaps that is the case but in Birka there is several finds that indicates eastern composite bows of especially Hungarian type. Also both the Sami and some of the Finnish tribes used a wooden composite bow (pine and birch) that is glued with bass-skinn-glue and the wrapped with birch-bark that is heated to seal tight against moist. Birch-bark was somewhat staple-goods when it came to make things water tight as the pitch in the bark seals tight when heated. It was also use all over Scandinavia as a water tight layer in roofs (similar to modern day tar paper/ roofing felt/ roof membrane. What I am trying to say is that there was known work-arounds for handle the moist in composite bows.

[@ericraymond3734]

@@sirseigan I didn't know about the Saami wooden bows, thanks for that information. There has been one archaeological find of an Eastern-style laminated horn now in Iceland, so they were not completely unknown. But the Norse were brutal pragmatists about fighting. The fact that we don't find a lot of those bows being used to equip armies is strong indirect evidence that there is something that prevented this, and it is known from experiments that animal-sinew glue is slowly water soluble. My guess is that the reason wooden composite bows were naturalized is because having a lower pull they didn't require an adhesive as strong as was needed for the steppe cavalry bow, but that adhesive could be waterproofed as you say.

[@cwmyr]

That has been massively overstated. Applying glues, varnishes and skins over the bow mitigates much of that. The Asian composite bow was used in southern Siberia, Mongolia, India, Tibet and Korea, so it’s definitely suitable for extreme weather.

[@dirksharp9876]

@@cwmyr Still wouldn't last long at sea.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

Did William Short try to use any of the weapons of the period against anyone else? Did he consult with Roland Warzecha who is one of the foremost re-creators of Viking Combat? Actually using the weapon systems would give you a different understanding of their style. Mindlessly hacking at an opponents shield will likely get you stabbed or your hand cut off

[@bond_3239]

He’s got numerous videos of himself and his team demonstrating these techniques. He was also, for years, the owner/operator of a Viking combat school. Look up Hurstwic.

[@Valdyr_Hrafn]

I wonder if it wouldn't have made a lot of sense for women to mostly play-train their children with weapons. It would seem a very advantageous and effective way to do so. grown woman could do much less accidental harm to a child due to sexual traits like lower bone density. and they would be able to train the children while the stronger folk of the village went raiding. and and should it ever happen for the village to get attacked it would be way better defended than if no one there knew how to fight when the strong people were all gone. DISCLAIMER: This is all based on thought and has no basis on any studies as far as I know. doesn't mean no studies exist who could support this idea, just saying I haven't used one to think of this

[@sirseigan]

If somwhat later sources and organisation is something to go on only a few men went raiding at the same time and the majority of the able bodied men would be home. If we take the Swedish "ledung" system (know from 1200s but reflects a much older style of fighting hence belived to be a much older organisation just written down then) as an example each "attung" (1/8th of a village, about 10 barrel-land or about the amount of land needed to feed a ordinary extended family homestead for one year) was a ticket to go. If you owned more you got more tickets, hence more chances to go, if you owned less you were paired up with others that own less to share one ticket (the one being home longest had to go). Then a "hamna", meaning two attungs (2/8th) supported one man with provition and gear in exchange of part of his loot. From this we can deduce that about every second household sent one man raiding. An ordinary avarage household held about 10 people (approx husband and wife, 2-4 children, 1-2 farmhands and/or relatives and 1-2 thralls - perhaps even grand parents). That would most likely mean on avarage about 3 able bodied men (excluding children and old men) per household (even thrall-men had to fight to defend the homestead, on the penalty if death). That means that about 1 man out of (2 × 3 =) 6 was sent raiding at the same time. So the home region would be far from defenseless. Each "folkland" (think district) where in general divided into "hundreds" meaning they could muster 100-120 men raiding. In Sweden that meant 3-5 ships while in Norway and Denmark (who in seem to general have had slightly bigger ships) it meant 2-4 ships. Norway and Denmark had very similar "drafting" systems in place as Sweden (not identical but very similar). The numbers is not exact but it gives a clue on the proportions. What I am trying to say is even in times of raiding the villages and homesteads would be far from defenceless even if we exclude the women, children and elderly. With that said I think early "weapons play" could for sure have been done by women and older kids/teenagers. There is also an old custom to send the slightly omder kids away to be taught how to be an adult. Originally it seems that the maternal uncle/aunt played a crucial role here but later in the viking age a trusted man (often of a bit lower status) would be compensated for taking the child in a put them to training to become an adult. This could(!) perhaps maybe included weapons training (as the skill is a part of being an adult man).

[@philippedefague3835]

So basically internet trolls are the Vikings of the internet?

[@ericraymond3734]

Women warriors can't have been common in the Viking era for a brutally simple reason. Remember the U.S. Womens' Olympic soccer team getting skunked in a pickup match by a team of boys aged 15 and under? The disparity in strength and agility required to use impact weapons is *that* great. And an especially high barrier in the power-based styles that Short argues the Vikings favored.

[@JarlVikingr]

Dr William Short in your book "Men of Terror" in chapter 11 page 185. You say in the Heimskringla that this cover's the history of the King's of Norway and their Dynastic Battle's, but sadly you have no comparable book's on the King's of Denmark and Sweden, backed by eyewitness account's. So what is the "Knytlinga Saga" and Saxo Gramaticus'es history of the Dane's book's l-lX......all about if these are not the history of the Danish King's ? I do have all of these 3 book's in my personal library, and l have read all of these book's cover to cover.....indeed without argument that you are correct about the Heimskringla being about the history of the King's of Norway ! But according to your account in your Book "Men of Terror' that there is no history of the King's of Denmark ! Then what is the Book's Knytlinga Saga and Saxo Gramaticus'es history of the Dane's about, if not about their history ?, Because l get the impression from my horrific abilities apparently !, get the impression that is exactly what these interpretation's l got from reading those booktitle's........P.S. can you clarify you opinion on this ? P.S. also the claim is that the "Knytlinga Saga was written by Snorri Sturlsson son..... therefore would be from the same method of sources as his father's used.

[@inkoftheworld]

Jackson has resting frowny face, lol. If women had to pretend to be men to fight, did men pretend to be women to sew?

[@ACruelPicture]

Well, Ođin had to pretend to be a woman to do magic so yes

[@snokelpops]

Is that your happy face or do I detect a hint of ambivalent antipathy?