Villainous Review - with Tom Vasel

[@onethousandxp]

One note: All of the artwork is new illustrations based off of the movie stills, and each Villain had a different artist!

[@matofilipovic7818]

That is good to know. I am not a fan of reused art from other media. Marvel board games are doing that a lot :S

[@markraphael7975]

you probably dont give a damn but does someone know of a way to log back into an Instagram account..? I somehow lost my account password. I would love any tricks you can offer me!

[@brockbeckham7045]

@Mark Raphael Instablaster =)

[@JonTalbain777]

I bought this game based on this review last year, and since then bought all three expansions. I played it a few times with friends, but lately I just try a few solo variants I made up (the game does not come with one) when I feel like bringing it out. Here are some thoughts: -The game's expansion villains play much better than the core ones. Ursula and Jafar suffer from the worst design, and now that I have a cast of 15 villains I almost never use them, but the other core players (Hook, John, Maleficent, Queen Of Hearts) still hold up well. At 3 expansions, 9 new villains, I feel like the game is pretty much done, though one more might be lurking about. I was able to fit EVERYTHING in the core box except for that darn cauldron, which was nice. I hate multiple boxes. But if you are getting the game, I recommend planning to invest in at least one expansion. The best one in my opinion is the one with Scar, though they are all really good. -The game's most annoying flaw is getting piled on in the endgame when the group senses you are close to victory. If you are playing with people who are good at disguising how well they are doing it helps, but not always, and it affects certain villains much more than others. In a way, this forces you to play smarter, and interact with guile, more like a villain, which ties into the theme, but not all players will see it that way, particularly children. Thus there will be times a flagging player will focus on an arbitrary enemy and ignoring other threats, bring them down (kingmaking). There are gamers who hate that above all and this is not the game for them. -I really wanted a solid, at least semi-deep Disney universe addition to my board game library and this fit that category perfectly. The components (except maybe for the power tokens and cauldron) are excellent and the art is superb. The game's mechanics work very thematically, particularly with the expansion villains. With Scar, you need to position your hyenas to ambush Mufasa and his pride, which feels completely different from Hades bringing out titans and pushing them to Olympus, or getting though all those dwarves to poison Snow White, or getting your taxes stolen by Robin Hood and company, etc. Scrutinizing the different strategies and weaknesses for each villain is a lot of fun. The game is far deeper than you might expect but still very easy to teach and set up.

[@deanmartin1907]

I've played this four times now (once with 4 players, the other times with 3 players), and I've seen every villain played. I'm amazed at how balanced it is. Each game I've played, there were multiple players set up to win in the next turn or two at the end of the game. Last night, Captain Hook won but both Ursula and Prince John would've won on their next turn. We're having a blast with it, and the replayability is through the roof since by the time I've played all villains multiple times there will be new villains available.

[@ChrisWood]

Dean Martin Interesting. One of the things that concerned me about this game was how reliant certain decks were on getting good draws. Many of the archetypes seem to want to burn through their decks as quickly as possible to find their win conditions, and I don’t think there are any shuffle or top-deck manipulation effects in the game. Did you see that as an issue in your play-throughs?

[@deanmartin1907]

I didn't see any issues with top-deck draws in games I played. In theory, it's possible, I suppose, but you can often lock out key actions with Heroes if you Fate that player, and the game seems pretty well designed in what actions can be locked out for each particular villain to slow them down a little. We did have one game where Hook got out the Neverland Map very early (it's needed to get his objective rolling), and he didn't win that game. (Note also that decks that are reliant on good draws often also have more discard actions available to them, so they can manage their deck more efficiently -- again sometimes those actions are also able to be blocked to slow them down.)

[@fireant202]

Chris Wood the main issue there is that I can be very frustrating to be a card dependent villain and play most of the game only to discover your key card was at the bottom of your deck. By the time you find it you might be so dismayed that you stop having fun.

[@achammer]

They will never make Cruella de Vil her winning condition would be killing 101 puppies LOL dont think that will fly

[@londonrhodes2429]

@churhclothes24688642 My god. Please use more punctuation. I promise I'm not the grammar police but I can barely read that shit. edit: I wouldn't even have left this comment except for the fact that you seem to have a good point. It's just hard to decipher it.

[@andrebrynkus2055]

What about simply getting a number of dogs from one side of the board to the other? Captain Hook literally has the win condition of killing Peter Pan so 'defeating' some puppies isn't worse.

[@RFieth]

I don't think Frollo's winning condition 'burn every gypsy in Paris at stake' is much better...

[@ktoon4725]

In reality it would probably be something more like “Defeat 5 puppies” or “Capture 5 puppies”

[@FishStyx]

I would imagine her deck more like prince John's but with puppy tokens. So accomplishing tasks earns her "puppy" tokens and she needs like 30 to win or something

[@TheShapingSickness]

12:04 "nice to see an excellent..." Dice tower seal of approval

[@neilerredge5358]

This game is totally open to expansions! Cant wait to play mine

[@AlfonsoSRT]

Yes, I know! I'd love to get expansion for Hades, Scar, Frollo, Dr. Facilier, Shan Yu, Radcliffe, the queen from Snow White, Madame Mim, Yzma, Cruella...

[@fuyuhanasan]

Alfonso ST how about the ultimate villain, Chernabog?

[@RhinoBarbarian]

I am hoping for Shan Yu from 'Mulan' and Yokai from 'Big Hero 6.' I think they could have a lot of fun with those two characters.

[@TheFranciscoFm]

@@AlfonsoSRT Yeah.. but no one of those is... slick as Gaston ! No one's quick as Gaston ! No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston's!!! Lets kill the BEAST!!!

[@ThiagoGuido_]

They definitely heard you!

[@devon2337]

Prince John's mini is not a goblet. It's a crown and you put the small side down.

[@SkinnyMood27]

I made that mistake too lol

[@labyfan1313]

That makes more sense. I just saw a better picture of it and the small part at the bottom is King John's collar then the large diamond shape is his head, then the crown is on top.

[@AegixDrakan]

Just played this with some friend and wow it's really great. I love how every villain has their own completely different and thematically appropriate mechanics.

[@karlisimo]

My gf and I got this to play while staying at home during the corona crisis and love it! The only thing is that Ursula is such a pain in the ass to win with haha! But a great game - took us 30-45min to get into since we're beginners, but after that, the mechanics and the strategizing are really fun.

[@khew1]

I'm in the same situation. Mines arriving through the post from Amazon today. Have you played it since?

[@richardshort2001]

Can we just talk for a second about how awesome a company Ravensburger is? They make such a wide variety of excellent games and have been around for so long, but manage to keep adapting to a quickly and vastly changing market. Props well deserved.

[@kur1su74]

Ravensburger just distributes this. It is made by Wonder Forge.

[@mapanzer]

Not just a distributor. Wonder Forge has merged with Ravensburger NA, and the founder an CEO of Wonder Forge is in fact now CEO of Ravensburger North America.

[@kur1su74]

@@mapanzer Oh thanks for that!

[@SaltTheFries86]

@@kur1su74 It's made by Prospero Hall.

[@RetroMaticGamer]

On the idea that parents might think this promotes bad behavior from their kids... WOW. I played a lot of Mortal Kombat and have yet to rip anyone's spinal cord out. Still, there are a lot worse kids could take after... Disney villains are usually not just bad people doing bad things for the sake of being bad. They have depth and dimension, are relatable if a bit flawed, rarely seek to do anything truly immoral, and might even be seen as the hero of the story from a slightly different point of view. Frollo was trying to fight temptation to do what he thought was right by God. Gaston wanted to kill a beast that terrified his fellow townsfolk. Mother Gothel just wanted to NOT DIE. Hook and Maleficent wanted justice for wrongs done against them. And even those who craved to rule, like Scar, John, and Jafar, had no intention to harm anyone until someone tried to stop them from acquiring the titles they felt they were entitled to. If these villains were psychopathic murderers, torturers, or worse (as many comic book villains are), Disney would not have presented them in family films. Frankly, I'd worry more about Disney HEROES than villains being a bad influence - Robin Hood and Aladdin are thieves; Peter Pan is reckless and violent; Kuzco and Maui are egotistical assholes, and a number of princes are okay with smooching non-consenting and/or unconscious women.

[@TechnicolorSprite]

And Cruella de Vil just wanted a nice fur coat.

[@xJAMESVICIOUSx]

"I played a lot of Mortal Kombat and have yet to rip anyone's spinal cord out" i just died laughing at that. Thank you.

[@narutosan1377]

"I played a lot of Mortal Kombat and have yet to rip anyone's spinal cord out" I just got slayed lol.

[@pawjack]

"Yet"

[@shagua2]

Retro-Matic Gamer can I « steal » your arguments for my ethics class ? I think it’s a good exemple of moral relativism

[@KLUNE]

Is good for 2 players? I want to get the game but I'm wondering how good is as a 1v1 duel game.

[@stevedickson9240]

Yes yes it is. I just played if for the first time with my gf and it’s very fun just 1v1

[@mastaangler7055]

I agree with @Steve played with the wife last night she was Ursala I was Jafar. She beat me one turn left 😂

[@CoasterMagicX2]

A lot of people in the comments giving the theme some crap. One of the reasons this probably didn't get a Seal of Excellence, is because of the fact that if you don't like this theme then most likely you will not like this game. (Not Guaranteed obviously) If you really like the theme you will probably really like the game (unless of course you seem to find light games really boring and would rather play the Campaign for North Africa for 1400+ hours). That's really my rating. If you like the theme, get the game. If you don't like the theme, then don't get the game. The game is really woven into the Gameplay in an absolutely splendid way. SU&SD never watched any Disney movies so if you listen to their podcast (live at Gencon), you get a good idea of what it's like to not enjoy the theme.

[@kur1su74]

SU&SD don't know how to fun.

[@mastaangler7055]

Not a big fan of Disney but I liked it, Getting the expansion tomorrow so I can play as Hades 💪

[@taserrr]

I think it's sad when people buy things for the theme. Gameplay should come first no matter what, it's not a painting or a movie that you just watch, you're playing a game. I always ask myself when finding these popular themes, would this be good without the theme? Too many garbage games with a well known theme slapped on it like star wars, the lord of the rings, the simpsons, game of thrones etc.

[@ConeDefense]

The villain pamphlets don’t seem top notch quality... could’ve easily been built into the player boards or a separate board hand out. Those will be beat up in no time.

[@KH-ft4ut]

Sadly you cant trust Tom when it comes judging to quality components. He's like a used car salesman in that regard.

[@Bodyknock]

I don’t know about the quality of the pamphlets but I do think they look like a clever way to quickly get new players up to speed on their own villain.

[@Minnesota_Central]

They're so smooth and nice however.

[@GameWeekendChalbie]

I’m so happy you liked this. I bought mine but haven’t been able to play yet. This review made me even more excited to get it to the table

[@patrioticmarine7445]

Coudln't help but wince and think that some of those cards were being damaged in that beginning sequence whey they were being dropped on the table.

[@ipsonfromkijetstudios]

How does the cauldron work?

[@GretSeat]

It holds stuff

[@rrutter81]

Prince john is a free win imo. Just get to 20 while captain hook, and jafar ditch cards to unlock their last realm. we played 2 games and prince john won both handily.

[@alexsherry1238]

But since all players know that about him, he should get fated to delay that. So, the balance for him comes more from the players having good game sense.

[@ThePorpoisepower]

One of the features of the Fate deck is that, as much as I love asynchronous game mechanics, it can be very difficult to learn how to counter other players with out knowning their game mechanics thoroughly... where as the fate deck simplifies it a lot, sure players more familiar with the mechanics of the differenant villains can counter more effectively, but It doesn't sound like I need to spend half an hour figuring out the best action, no matter what I do it'll impede the other player.

[@laureng3922]

Question about the lock. When playing Ursula can the lock be moved to where she is? We're not sure. I have the lock at the Palace, but my oponent wants to move it to the Lair where I am. Is this a legal move?

[@TheShadesOfBlack]

Maybe too late but yes. You just can't go back to the place you're in

[@jameswoodard4304]

Why do you pronounce Jafar as if it was Javer with a French accent? It is a normal Arabic name that is pronounced exactly as it appears to an English speaker.

[@warholcow]

Why do you have nothing better to do then troll on the internet? He obviously didn’t know how correctly say the name. Not a big deal.

[@beekayboy]

would really like the same concept/game with Marvel Comics Villains :)

[@JaKamps]

or even Star Wars possibly

[@Bodyknock]

And since Disney owns Marvel that might even be a thing someday. 🙂

[@JaKamps]

Or, how about Thanos, & Vader as playable villains?! (Doubt these would happen.)

[@MelkhorX]

I'd just go play Legendary: Villains. It's been done, and that game is extremely solid.

[@Bodyknock]

MelkhorX I like Legendary Villains but it is not at all the same game thematically or mechanically as “Villainous but with a Marvel supervillain.” It’s comparing apples and oranges, the two games aren’t even in the same genre of board game.

[@silver5465]

Just played this today and wow! One of my new favorites for sure, can't wait to keep playing this one!

[@RhinoBarbarian]

Wonder if they'll ever add 'The Hunter.'

[@yourbeardlybro5887]

Can this be combined with other core Villainous games? (Such as the Marvel edition).

[@prekkoy]

it can be combined with any villianous expansion EXCEPT marvel. marvel is completely standalone

[@yourbeardlybro5887]

@@prekkoy Thank you :)

[@mastaangler7055]

Do allies fight heroes in the same Realm without Vanquish?

[@RubyWish]

In order to defeat a Hero, you either need to perform a Vanquish action or play a card with an Ability that says a Hero can be defeated.

[@mastaangler7055]

@@RubyWish thanks Ruby.✌

[@yoroshiku137]

I played the game twice. Neither time it seemed like anything happened. You have to wait for one of your opponents to target you to bring out a hero that you need for your objective. So if you are playing it with two or more other players, then there might be a chance that you don't get targeted and you can't do anything to move towards your own goal. You have to hope that someone will try to attack you so you can thwart their plan. I really wanted to like it, but I just couldn't.

[@GretSeat]

You can get heroes out on your own whim

[@BurdisPhoenix]

Is there any interaction between players ?

[@GretSeat]

Fate Cards. And certain "Condition" cards can be played during ANY players turn, from your hand as long as the conditions are met

[@dysongibson4936]

Great review. Please don’t destroy the cards with elastic bands lol takes me back to 1994 MTG days lol

[@Vaole]

I love to bridge cards, especially when they are not sleeved

[@mastaangler7055]

Still have all mine!

[@Phillyfan9307]

Bummer that they left out Scar.

[@koalabrownie]

They need to keep some popular ones out so they can sell it to you later in an expansion.

[@mariplayz7748]

Scar’s in the New Expansion pack

[@Strandvideo]

Why a seal of approval (and not seal of excellence)? From the video I didn't really hear any negative that contributes to the rating of approval? Would be nice to have more explanation.

[@BliskMyth]

My only concern is that players don’t really know how well their opponents are doing on their goals.

[@fearanarchy]

It is also likely to be prone to engine-building, etc where there can just sometimes be a bad run that keep you suppressed and your opponent, playing an easier character can run unopposed. I just wasn't a fan of the pamphlets. I'll wait for someone else's copy as my kids are still too young to get into this yet.

[@deanmartin1907]

You can tell pretty easily because everything except your hand of 4 cards is open information. For example, you know if Captain Hook has Peter Pan out and is getting close to defeating him, or how much power Prince John has (he needs 20 to win), or if Jafar has already found the lamp and summoned the Genie, etc. You can also see what actions each player has available to help you determine how many turns they may be away from winning (this is part of the strategy of using a Fate action, because it can reduce their number of available actions). I've found that it's very balanced and even getting one objective out early still means you have a bunch more steps to win and also can make you a target for Fate, which will slow you down.

[@thedicetower]

Seal of excellence is VERY rare for us. Seal of approval is still great!

[@Strandvideo]

But what's missing in the game that makes it less than excellent?

[@nightkids29]

When is it coming out

[@bcroswell]

It's out now in the US. Target had them put on 7/29

[@nightkids29]

cool, I will check it out, hopefully they arent out of stock

[@Vampa219]

need a live play of this one with you guys. Especially with the way you guys get into character when playing games like Sheriff

[@adbirk19]

Is it just me or does the Prince John deck not work it people don't give you heroes?

[@GretSeat]

It doesn't need to give you heroes, his goal is to get 20 power.

[@adamchristensen2648]

Each villain basically plays through their respective movie up to the finally. Ursula gets Triton to sign a contract, she has the crown and trident in her lair. She wins the game. Then goes mad with power, grows huge, and Eric runs her through with a ship. Jafar manages to get control of the genie and the palace and wins the game. Then gets tricked into turning himself into a genie, etc, etc... Really cool how they did that with the totally asymmetric gameplay that is crazy thematic. Not a perfect game, but a really good one...and far and away the best Disney themed game.

[@GretSeat]

What would you say is the best Disney themed game?

[@grog3514]

I really don't get how people like this game. This game has bombed in every game group we tried it with. It is exceedingly boring. It has some nice references and nods to the movies if you are a disney fan but the gameplay is TERRIBLE. I really disagree with Tom on this one which I almost never do. This essentially a game where people come together to play a game of solitaire by themselves. And since it is so asymmetric, there isn't even the tension of a race. The thing that gets me is that for most characters, fate cards are actually somewhat helpful towards their goals. Also it requires everyone to have a couple games of this under their belt to understand what the other players need to satisfy their win conditions. To make matters worse, some characters are very difficult to check at a glance. Malificent will often have allies covering up her curses and since they look like any other card in her deck, no one knows how close other people are to winning their game of solitaire. This leads to people having to constantly give reports on their status which is really tedious. I think this is one of the worst designed games I've ever played. I really like the theme but I really don't think this deserves to be called a game at all. Its just move here and play a card or two and hope that someone gets bored enough choose your fate deck to help you win faster.

[@jessebruning6738]

Just played my first game tonight, and it went very similarly. Too many cards that dont do anything at the start of the game. Too much durdling around before you have a clear goal. Too much take-that for the target audience. A learning game of this is going to be 2+ hours, and somebody is going to win by surprise, or even accidentally.

[@fireant202]

Yeah I love the components and general quality here but I too came up with the solitaire comparison. Only in this version of solitaire your friends will occasionally come by and mess with a bunch of your painstakingly laid out piles of cards. The game really needs something to focus the players’ attention since the asymmetry makes it very difficult to keep track of everyone’s progress. Some kind of central board of semi-shares goal would help focus the game. Or at the very least something to fix the grind. My games generally go like this: first 30 min everyone figuring out their deck/puzzle, next 30 min slow progress towards victory, last 30 min plus everyone blocking each other’s win condition till someone happens to finally win (much to everyone else’s dismay but also relief). Other games have this same stall out in the third act but here it is especially dull since you had so little interaction up to that point.

[@guillermoz4914]

Best game ever!

[@rididdy]

Totally agree about missing out on Scar and Cruella.

[@TheFranciscoFm]

What about everybodys favorite guy? No ones slick as Gaston No ones quick as Gaston No ones neck's as incredibly thick as Gastons He needs to get an expansion and kill the beast once for all!!!

[@vrika4280]

Did not noticed until now, they are expansions.

[@Xhawk33]

Awesome to hear. My copy is in route, should be here soon. Also, the expansion potential with this is almost limitless. There will be tons of villians to introduce in the coming years.

[@CreatedBy_official]

I saw this at my local game store and was really curious about it. I'm a huge Disney villain fan, but don't want a bad game. Bc of this review, I think I'll go get a copy!

[@japethcefre]

What happens if the power tokens at the cauldron runs out?

[@RubyWish]

Power is considered infinite. You can grab other tokens or coins to use as additional Power.

[@john-michaelkirkconnell]

Shouldn't the Queen of Hearts' win condition be to behead Alice?

[@robsevendaysaweek]

I’d love to see this with a generic fantasy theme

[@billko4342]

I want it with starwarsss🚀

[@jameswoodard4304]

So...they could technically put Darth Vader in this, right?

[@devilsummoner7814]

Or Thanos by that logic yeah. Although i would prefer the Emperor over Vader, since Vader is a lackey not unlike Kronk is to Yzma.

[@josevelajr]

@@devilsummoner7814 There's now a Marvel edition of this with Thanos!

[@captawesome42]

"will this teach my kid to be bad" - i hate parents like this...just...you are the worst people possible

[@adamchristensen2648]

I hear ya. If anything, it should teach kids that a game is just a game, setbacks happen and you have to think to overcome them, and you don't always win.

[@Deokiev]

Machanics seem fine, but this looks like literal multiplayer solitaire. You don't play against other players, you play against your fate deck. Other people merely take the role of AI for it.

[@mattmorgan2525]

It's more like you are playing as a villain and simultaneously as the other players' heros.

[@dankester5607]

All the rave revews... did I play it wrong? I used Maleficent in a 2 player game and won on like my sixth or seventh turn, and never had a fate even come up. Just bounced back and forth between the spots with no fates on them, gathered energy and burned through villain deck to get curses.

[@pigletandpo]

Your opponent is supposed to fate you to stop you from winning.

[@adamchristensen2648]

Your fate actions target a different player using their fate deck. Their fate actions can target you using your fate deck.

[@TMAXXPUNISHER]

I intentionally avoided this game BECAUSE it was Disney. Maybe I'll spring for it now. Well see

[@Razorgirl]

“Allies” should’ve been called “Minions”.

[@MastigosAtLarge]

...King Neptune?

[@johnmarino657]

"jah-faar"

[@nayira94]

I don't think the base characters are balanced. Prince John is way too easy, and Ursula is almost impossible to win with. Her objective is ridiculously complex compared to other characters.

[@shaunagator]

It would be nice if you would edit your audio to drop/minimize all the loud inhales the mic catches whenever you pause between lines, it could be a much more professional presentation with that one small fix!

[@simbalionsnowpaws765]

Where Disney Pixar bad guys border game

[@nickhayes1626]

No Horned King, no Gaston, no Ratigan???? C'mon Disney!!!!

[@AnishChari]

Nicholas Hayes Expansions baby! Also that Snow White witch.

[@stephanberger3476]

Neptune?? Triton!

[@sirbearrington3677]

Love the reviews, love dice tower, met Tom over at coolstuff in hollywood and all I can say is great guy. with that said when he says symbology at 8:21 all I could think of is William Dafoe in Boondock Saints kzbin.info/www/bejne/onjCgJiwobmNZ6M

[@christianvalentin1697]

I've never commented on KZbin before, but I thought the EXACT same thing hahaha!!

[@garrisonpalmer4553]

Darth Vader expansion?

[@Bodyknock]

Saw this in the store yesterday and thought it looked like a cute game to play with my nephew on a family visit. With the review I might even give it a shot with my friends too, the gameplay looks kind of cool. Also the fact that Disney owns Marvel makes me wonder if maybe they will have a Marvel expansion for it someday. Pixar and Star Wars would work too. Either way the fact that Tom mentioned expansion packs coming and the overall asymmetric gameplay and nostalgic aesthetic definitely increased my interest. P.S. My only gripe with the theme is that they picked Robin Hood and Alice in Wonderland as two of the movies. Disney’s Robin Hood is kind of “meh”, there are better Disney films for sure.

[@donblack1571]

This game is fun

[@trevor7861]

Bring on Frolo and Ezma!

[@thecaryou]

The game looks great but for me the theme actually kills my interest which is to bad but to each his own.

[@hondito]

Zha-far? :)

[@michaelrodriguez3129]

David Phillips ah man you made me laugh hard

[@johnnyportalatin5962]

jeezy

[@Shawnacy00]

Mwahahaha!

[@BliskMyth]

Tom is blind by the theme and production of this game. One of the few time I disagree with Tom.

[@adamchristensen2648]

It isn't going to be a classic, it has it's issues, but it's still a good game. You can plan ahead, set up combos, and directly attack your opponents plans. Yeah, it relies on luck of the draw (heavily for some characters), the fate cards artificially lengthen play time, etc. There are worse games out there from big name publishers and designers. This one is alright.

[@MeanNGreen17]

Theme is such a turnoff for me. 😢I’m just not a fan of Disney stuff.

[@elementindustrial]

I’ve played this game today. The game feels and plays like multiple player solitaire. I wouldn’t buy it for my collection. In my opinion, low replay value. If it didn’t have a Disney logo, this game wouldn’t thrive amongst alike/similar games. Great review though!

[@jessicajudge9326]

*channels william dafoe* It's ssssssssssssymmmmboliiiism. Symbolism. Not "symbology" you're not studying it.

[@x.RMUCB.x]

Jessica Judge 🤣 That exact reference popped in my head immediately too!

[@IamKnucks]

Jxahfar.

[@greginfla_1]

Omg such a boring game... theme yes... but game play?