SHRILL THIN TOP NOTES??? I don't think so! Part 2

[@ygorcoelhos]

My dear KZbin experts and oh so internationally reknown scholars, put one little information into your minds: nobody who actually heard Sutherland live multiple times ever thought her high register was shrill and thin, not even during her later career, let alone during her prime. Actually if there is one thing even her detractors conceded was that her top was incredibly well developed, keeping virtually the same vocal size, color and dynamics of the middle voice (a really rare feat), and many people praised her for her huge top notes that could only be compared with those of dramatic sopranos (with the caveat that those dramatic sopranos could not sing High D and High E flats as often and easily as her, or even hit them at all). Develop a stronger high register? She had basically the best high notes of the last century not just in terms of size, but also accuracy, pitch, ease, color, homogeneity with the other registre-se. You people should really get off your imaginary high horse and stop delving into such ludicrous fantasies. I know the lawless and open room of KZbin is your natural habitat, because here the stupid with an agenda can be even more vocal than the wise and prudent, but at least play with more honesty and less "alternative facts". Lol

[@MrStpendouslvforjo]

I couldn't agree with you MORE!! You saved me the effort of having to defend La Stupenda....who was THE GLORY of opera and voice. The only point I would add - is that Joan was such a consummate professional that she would often sing even when she was quite sick...and maybe then her high notes might have been "off" - maybe thin or dry - but as she said herself "I'm only human"!

[@MrStpendouslvforjo]

Great post Vinicius! I commented quite a bit to other comments - and enjoyed the debates! Of course , you know , that I absolutely ADORE our Joan!

[@nathandavis3002]

Her high notes, or at least her high Eb did start to thin out a bit into the late 70s and 80s, but they thinned out only in comparison to the titanic Eb she was capable of in the 50s,60s, and the first half of the 1970s. And her high D never shrank at all really, even at age 63 she was capable of blowing the roof off the house with one of them.

[@sydneyr.cauveren7857]

Talk all you want...Dame Joan was, and simply remains, the greatest coloratura soprano EVER. The 63 times I heard her in person, remain as fabulous memories of a voice that absolutely no other soprano could match to this day. What a wonderful lady she was to meet as well!

[@АркадийХаритонов-ъ5ц]

по мне вообще величайшая певица из тех кого сохранила запись. На счет колоратуры. Сазерленд драматическая колоратура. Лирическая колоратура типа Мадо Робиен выше и подвижней. Это разные голоса

[@magicmonkichi]

One always had a sense of stability with Dame Joan. Sometimes singers now adays my 'inner self' kinda 'gets ready for the top' and i'm not sure it'll happen. With Sutherland, for me, rock solid I knew it'd be there!

[@davidallen508]

Just the way I talk myself ; Dame Joan always delivered the goods.A true champion.

[@gustavotbf]

HUGE!

[@eddyjohn1022]

Amazing, Wonderful and Thrilling to listen to.

[@Capetenor1]

And how about the incredible accuracy and flexibility, freedom and blossom of those glorious, ringing, spinning, laser-like and powerful top notes that never (to me, live or recorded) sounded stressed (perhaps toward the very end of her career the bloom was diminished but still better than many of a younger age).The upper register sounded organic to me and not as an artificial extension tacked on. I have been listening to her for 50 years and I am still astounded by her singing.

[@danielintheantipodes6741]

Joanie Forever!

[@Tkimba2]

She was magnificent. Period

[@eloyguevara9447]

el sentir.........esta en el cerebro...............el corazon.................y el estomago..............y eso gobierna nuestro ser................este sonido es una pasada................................curativo......................y apasionantemente bellisimo.................imponente e imposible..............solo por ella era realizado...........................le cueste reconocerlo a quien quiera........................callas...............renata.............y monserrat..........las mas grandes............pero la gran diosa joan sutherland........es algo inaudito..........................

[@TheRicharddeacon123]

I saw her many times and I won't go into all the tehnicalities as I only studied piano for 13 years, but when I hear those high notes with just a tiny bit of vibrato, I just can only describe them as shimmering gold/silver/ pearls .Let's not forget the actual beautiful timbre of the voice. One only has to hear one bar of music and one knows it's our Dame Joan. Rightly so, what was called the Opera Theatre of our beautiful Opera House in Sydney, is now called the Joan Sutherland Theatre as she sang there so many times.

[@ЛюдмилаСевастополь-ы4у]

Она моя любимая певица!!! ❤

[@jimbuxton2187]

The glory of Sutherland is she would back off and sing lightly in the upper registers but they came out huge any way! She never tried to beef up or push out those upper notes !

[@BrunoACFernandes]

She may have lost some elasticity and strength in her top in her later years, but she was NEVER shrill. One of the most astounding voices ever.

[@bellini7verdi]

LA BELLEZA ESTA EN SU VOZ...............................................PARA SIEMPRE...........................................

[@grantparsons6205]

Sutherland was one of those few extraordinary singers whose top notes didn't thin out relative to the rest of the voice & were powerful & rich, really right up to (nearly!) the end of her career. Recordings don't always do justice to the sheer size of the voice, which was huge in the theatre. To repeat the comments made by thousands of others, we can only imagine what she would have done in spinto or dramatic repertoire...

[@luizgonzagasouza4472]

Thank you Vini Soaris. Master.

[@nornsnornsnorns]

Incomparable

[@Capetenor1]

Just delightful to hear all those Dame JS supersonic highnotes!

[@gayoperadude63]

Well in Traviata and Trovatore there are written in the score Dflat or C#'s. May Spinto Dramatic Sopranos transpose Sempre Libra. As for Trovatore they sing alternate notes, but well within the style of the the work.

[@-giakhanh--kayden-8337]

Sutherland had the most secured, expandingly beautiful top notes in the whole 20th century. Which idiots said she was shrill ?

[@aceofspades8634]

Can anyone tell me the name of the arias in this video? I only know some of them, but I would be very interested to have the full list. Much appreciated! 🙏

[@marylambcarter]

BRAVAHHHHHHHHHH DAME JOAN FOREVER !!!!!

[@bellini7verdi]

UNA PASADA TOTAL....................COMO SIEMPRE CON LA GRANDISIMA JOAN SUTHERLAND...................................ES DE OTRO MUNDO.........................................

[@wilsonwatt9283]

I heard Sutherland across her career in many roles from 1966 to 1989 live. Although her voice changed somewhat over time there was never a time when she was "shrill" or "thin" in the house. If anything, it was her middle voice which she had to rework at least twice over her almost 50 year career. While Bonynge's need to have her stick to certain unusual and sometimes almost unknown repertoire so that his mediocre abilities as a conductor would be hidden [if you conduct Esclarmonde for the first time in over 100 years no one will say "oh you should have heard ……. conduct it] impeded her maintenance of her chest register and robbed us as an audience of some of the great roles she could have sung she herself was never shrill or thin or weak in her singing.

[@ЛюдмилаСевастополь-ы4у]

Сам ты посредственный! Ричард Бонинг -гениальный дирижёр!!!!😡

[@Shahrdad]

I seriously doubt anyone ever accused her of shrill or thin high notes, as it was universally acknowledged that her high register was the most glorious part of her voice. The middle got cloudy starting in the mid-1960s, and the bottom remained the weakest part of her voice throughout her career, but the high was and remained glorious to the end.

[@schneevongestern9898]

Records never do the real live voice justice. Never. E.g. I find Diana damrau rather unpleasant in recordings but loved her live sound. The overtones are only perceived when listening actually live. Same with sutherland. All who heard her live, especially in her younger years, said that her higher range was enormous and blew the roof off. And the her voice overall filled the room. Also in the middle range, which grew when she matured. I'd give anything to go back to 1960 and listen live to her voice in its absolute prime. It must have been overwhelming.

[@ygorcoelhos]

Where does the first excerpt come from? Sounds great!

[@finners62]

Handel's Rodelinda 1959 June I think.

[@lucasitzia4871]

Sutherland and Bonynge adored Tebaldi's voice, and they also appreciated her as a woman and friend. Bonynge claimed to have been enslaved by Tebaldi's glorious voice when he listened to her live, in Naples, and he statued many times than there's no better Puccini than Tebaldi's. No comparison is possible between Tebaldi's first octave and Dame Joan's... Sutherland's low and middle registers were weak and started to wobble since the beginning of the Seventies. Her 1970 Norma at the MET proves that what I say is true. She never developed chest resonance because of her fear to lose top notes. Many people don't remember that high level singing requires not only trills, coloraturas, secure top above high C etc. (skills almost useless for the late 19th century great repertoire), but also diction, legato, smooth transition between registers, dynamics... Sutherland, in my opinion, is the most spectacular soprano in the Belcanto repertoire... but it would had been better if she had avoided Suor Angelica, Adriana, etc. Tebaldi is the best soprano in late Verdi and Verismo roles. Listen to Dame Joan's recordings of Otello, Aida (in duet with Pavarotti)... and you'll see that no comparison is possible. She never had dynamic skills Tebaldi showed in her prime.

[@ygorcoelhos]

Well, it is true that Sutherland and Bonynge loved Tebaldi's voice in her right repertory (spinto and full lyric roles without many high notes or higher tessitura, that's why Tebaldi expressly refused to sing Amelia in Un Ballo and Leonora in Il Trovatore). All singers have their natural instruments and should respect them and know their limits. I think that's also something that clearly differentiates the great singers who are also wise musicians from those who are not (and both Sutherland and Tebaldi excelled in most of their career decisions). However, I fail to understand why you're comparing Tebaldi and Sutherland to the latter's detriment (really, my friend, not having Tebaldi's nearly unsurpassable phrasing does not mean Sutherland was bad in those respects, Sutherland actually had an amazing musicality, immaculate phrasing and an impeccable sense of the vocal line even in the most intricate music, spanning from the baroque to the 20th century opera, that's not a negligible feat. Not being an equal to Tebaldi in the Italian mid-late romantic repertory (that's where Tebaldi's musicianship really shone through best) is not a good argument to suggest Sutherland was not excellent in it, I don't know why some opera fans still think in such terms "if not the absolute 1st, then it's rubbish"). Finally, I have to say that it's not fair to compare Tebaldi's prime recordings with Sutherland's Aïda duet recording made in 1977 and her Otello (I assume you mean her only extant Otello recording, because the excerpt in The Art of the Prima Donna is an amazing piece of singing, with heartfelt and extremely tasteful, subtle phrasing and control of dynamics) sung in 1981. Granted, of course Tebaldi was better in that repertory (after all, unlike Sutherland she dedicated her life to it, Sutherland changed a lot of things, even in her own vocal technique, to excel in the coloratura repertoire, especially of the late 18th-early 19th century: choices and sacrifices need to be made either way). However, what I mean is that you're using a singer's recordings when she was in her decline to compare with a soprano specialized in Late Romantic repertory and who left us recordings in much younger age and mostly during her prime. If that comparison should be a bit fairer, even if still totally dispensable, you should compare Sutherland to recordings of Tebaldi in the late late 60s/early 70s in those respective role - where of course the difference between them, in vocal terms, is unsurprisingly much lower.

[@lucasitzia4871]

@@ygorcoelhos I completely agree with you and probably I've not been able to clarify what I meant. As you can read below in my answers to Operamyworld, my comparisons with late recordings (Aida, Otello, Adriana, etc) don't respond to the purpose to denigrate Dame Joan, but to highlight the flaw in the reasoning of those (Operamyworld and others) who cite Vien diletto, recorded by Tebaldi in 1968, or lowered Sempre libera, to say that she is an overrated singer. However, I have to say that Sutherland should have avoided Suor Angelica and Adriana, roles that didn't let her to show her best. I am Italian and I must say that in a certain repertoire the lack of correct diction is particularly annoying. It does not seem offensive to me to say that, even during her prime, Sutherland did not have certain extraordinary qualities of Tebaldi. Try to compare Addio del passato, or the whole part of Violetta except Sempre libera. Nevertheless, Sutherland was one of the most important Violetta of her time. I never meant Sutherland is rubbish, NEVER.

[@agnieszkakruszyna4625]

BUT any CHEST participation on these high E-flats! Any note without CHEST? Blasphemy! 🤣

[@JoanSutherlandFan]

HAHAHA Perhaps it's because Joan knewt how to sing properly ;)

[@agnieszkakruszyna4625]

@@JoanSutherlandFan No! If you want to hear properly sung high note, listen to C6 in this Tebaldi's O patria mia! kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpPMaJ2fiLJgaNE And imagine how beautiful would be E-flat in such free, unconstricted sound! 😝

[@agnieszkakruszyna4625]

@Antony Lias You are competly right. I was just ironic in comments above, because it's how look standard "technical tips" of Mister Opera/Silver Singing Method.

[@crisha721]

what is the name of the first Aria? Thanks for the video :)

[@JoanSutherlandFan]

Dopo la notte oscura - Rodelinda 😘

[@crisha721]

@@JoanSutherlandFan thanks

[@ransomcoates546]

Her E flat always had a flap, not outrageous, but not homogeneous with the rest of her range. You can hear it quite plainly here. And she began lowering things to avoid E flat relatively early after her rise to great fame. The D was always solid, but the E flat most definitely flapped.

[@YortOK]

Quite an apt description of Callas, thanks 🤣😂😅

[@Gav640]

Hi, what is the name of the aria from the second selection with the high trill?

[@JoanSutherlandFan]

"Ombre, piante, urne funeste!" it's a long piece.

[@nathandavis3002]

Thin and shrill! Tebaldi's high notes were far superior! That comes from her strong use of chest voice! Take her high c in o patria mia for example! Of course I am being sarcastic and mocking another certain youtuber who i dont need to name even. Of course it is also true that Tebaldi's high C in o patria mia was an excellent example... Of a high B! 😂😂😂 joke aside i do adore tebaldi in verisimo roles where her high notes or lack therof are less of a proble

[@Ukie88]

Tenors are thin

[@eloyguevara9447]

demasiado para el cuerpo................................

[@bellini7verdi]

UNA VOZ........................MAS HAYA........... DE CUALQUIER CONCEPTO.................................

[@mislavhilc]

LOL...