Vinland Saga Fell Off...

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Күн бұрын

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@lotoro2634 Жыл бұрын

I think that the scene with the shaman would have been better if he didn’t actually see the real future, but rather a bunch of nondescript events of destruction. Since he was on all sorts of drugs at the time, I think it would have made sense if he hallucinated and saw Vinland as a barren wasteland (sort of like what Niskawaji’j saw in her dream). That way we still end up at the same point in the story, but without all the supernatural BS.

@LeoArmada Жыл бұрын

Exactoooooo. A late response but this is exactly, the perfect solution for this problem. It fixes the problems i had, while keeping the events vague, as in, we could've said, that the visions, were just exaduration of his emotions and fear or smt like that. THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SOO MUCH BETTER!

@minosserimmaldelli6352 Жыл бұрын

You made a very good point and explained a lot about the weird feeling I had when reading the whole shaman seeing the future thing. But I don't think it is a religious vs. non-religious debate here. The way I read it is that we as humans make things up, fantasies to justify our actions, like vikings justifying using violence by believing they will go to valhalla, or recently with Ivar saying we need to have weapons in case the natives want to go to war, but he doesn't have proof that that's what they will do but he still believes this, a fantasy to justify and consolidate his identity and pride as a warrior (that's how I interpreted his character from the stuff we have from the manga currently, maybe he'll change later). And so I thought that the mangaka to create conflict in this arc would make the shaman have some visions about how the nord people are bad and make him an antagonist but the problem is that the visions that he has are real, the things he sees will happen in the future, which makes the theme that the mangaka presents, of the unfounded beliefs of people leading to unnecessary violence and how these beliefs can be challenged to sway people to become better, completely useless, because now beliefs formed by having a dream with no concrete foundation can be true. This means that there is no reason to stop having unfounded beliefs since maybe your beliefs might actually be true. The swaying of people into stop believing in unfounded stuff can be seen in a chapter where Thorfinn and Canute capture a band of pirates with members from the disbanded Jomviking, in this chapter it shows how beliefs can be challenged and the result is making these members become better people and join Thorfinn's crew. To summarise, the theme of unfounded beliefs leading to violence was turned on its head with these beliefs being actually true, and I thought the shaman would have a vision similar to his apprentice where she saw herself walking in a desert, I thought the shaman would have a cryptic vision like that which would make him an antagonist but instead it was the actual future (also the panel with the nuclear bomb was amazing). In conclusion, I completely get what you are saying with this video, but I personally believe in the mangaka's talent and thoroughness with everything he explored in Vinalnd Saga, so I don't think the series for me is mid yet as I loved the small but complex dynamics of creating a settlement and managing it, with the communication problems and how to solve these. Like I said in this very long comment, this is an unfounded belief, and I will need more evidence to affirm whether or not Vinland Saga is mid now.

@sssssssssss8238 Жыл бұрын

I agree with what you said but I wouldn’t call it mid

@chicken29843 Жыл бұрын

I really don't think the shaman seeing nukes is supposed to be a religious thing.

@rodvincetolosa9386 Жыл бұрын

His vision really didn't prove his religion at all, it's been well documented that taking drugs makes you see crazy shit. He just saw what his subconscious wanted to see, he already had his own inclination to one opinion and he just wanted it to be validated. Hence when he took the drugs his mind validated it for him. Although I would agree that him seeing the literal future was a bit jarring, I didn't really mind.

@lucianmasgras2600 Жыл бұрын

Look, I kind of understand your point, but i do have to point out a few things. After that you are free to think whatever you want. I have 3 points to make: - First. Character wise, this arc is incredible the evolution and the showcase of various type of ideologies is really well done, and in my humble opinion it isn't wise to call mid such an amazing arc because of what i think is a bit of a nitpick.The author made an incredible masterpiece, while also taking the huge risk of going for the seinen route.Even if what I will say may be wrong in your opinion. I think we should cut him some slack. -Second. While the author did previously negate the existance of religion, Now what the native american saw in my opinion isn't real.You see one interesting thing i noticed is that if you delete that chapter out the story , it still makes perfect sense.Why is that? Because he just went mad with untrust( just like some of the nords did later on), and adding the fact that the ritual was an enourmous amount of mushrooms, psichedelics and drugs it is plausible that he just snapped and went bonkers.What he saw wasn't real, He saw what he wanted to see. -Third. I also think that the point the author is trying to make is: there is always going to be some kind of conflict. It may start with visions, Tradition, Money, Religion and such... The goal is to make sure that such conflict does not fall into violence and war. You cannot make a place without conflict but it must not degenerate into violance (That is also why politics where invented(even if they are not doing a good job)).You need conflict for peace to exist, just like you need light to make a shadow. Now you are free to have your own opinion on the matter, i just hope i helped you get past these little imperfections. Srry for the bad english

@tox_anituber Жыл бұрын

Bro your English is flawless.

@LeoArmada Жыл бұрын

if we start going to the point where, we delete chapters from a story, i think that already sends huge signals as to how big of a negative impact it had. Not to mention it isnt just a single chapter problem. The man was saying spiritual reasons as his main argument twords removing the nords for many, many chapters, which goes back to my point in the vid. On top of that, its not a nit pick, again, the viking dying in the Baltic, was a small piece, a side quest, in a large war, here, this scene kicks off the main conflict and the antagonistic actions of the Shamen. Also with your last point, i agree, that was his point, however, the way and execution of that point, was terrible, and there could have been better ways to go about things.

@spitanime 9 ай бұрын

LOVED this analysis, all i could think of after watching the high shaman was "fuck" "so now wat?"

@UrsGreineder Жыл бұрын

I can understand the feeling that the nuke was a bit weird. BUT it never validates the superstitions the shaman held. It doesn't actually matter whether or not he sees the actual future or just random senseless destruction brought by outsiders. Afterall, he doesn't actually see spirits of his ancestors or whatever he just hallucinates those events. His religion is never proven to be real by the author, because as you yourself said this guy was smoking weed (taking psychedelics) in order to see a vision which he is clearly hallucinating. I think it would have been better if it was just random destruction he saw, however the conflict isn't changed in any way because of the specifics he saw. The plot would have moved in the same direction anyway, the shaman wants the nords out no matter what (because of superstition) and tries to instigate a conflict in order to show that the nord are actually bad. Never are his actions justified and as a reader you should be on Thorfinns side because he didn't do anything to the Lnu. The plot has always been driven by religion because people in this manga believe in it, Nords wanting to go to Valhalla --> do war all the time, Knut talking about Christianity and how it influences him (rebelling against god), the Shaman is just another example. He believed the nords to be a threat and manifested his beliefs in a vision caused by drugs. If you now think that you can talk to spirits by consuming drugs that is a different point. I however don't think he actually could communicate with spirits it’s a hallucination just like Hellheim was for Thorfinn; in that it gives you a look into their psyche and how they perceive their surroundings. Therfore I don't have magor complaints about this part of the story. I think it’s a weird nitpick, that drags the manga down for you when it doesn’t affect the story in anyway, which was one of your main criticisms of this ark right?

@mikakee5154 Жыл бұрын

nah I dont think its that big of a problem that pushes the arc to mid. Youre making an elephant out of a mouse, but interesting video nonetheless.

@TurdBoi666 Жыл бұрын

why do you think he sold bad copper. Ea nasir was truly a despicable man

@tickmop Жыл бұрын

Peak editing? Yes!

@chicken29843 Жыл бұрын

Yeah honestly I can feel its decline, its not bad and there's definitely still some potential but i really feel skipping greece was a bad idea. The pacing is lightning fast after they leave for greece. Mangaka shoulda taken his time with the building funds part. Hilds arc couldve have been done more gracefully i think as well. And also Gudrid just needs more characterization. Cutting to thorfinn and gudrid already married after a really awesome scene for them is pretty lame tbh. Feels like an entire arc is missing. Also the tone felt much less serious in the Baltic sea arc, very shonen at times. Like Sigurd using a barrel to bulldoze through a bunch of Vikings like theyre fodder, despite it being heavily established multiple times how these guys are highly skilled soldiers. Still a lot of awesome moments but i am admittedly frustrated

@suhank_ Жыл бұрын

You're exaggerating. Those visions were more for the audience than they were for the Shaman. He already disliked the settlers, he took a bunch of drugs and saw convenient hallucinations that fit his narrative. That's it.

@fishfuckstv Жыл бұрын

The most unrealistic thing in this final arc is that the natives were peaceful and didn't try to scalp the new settlers.

@LeoArmada Жыл бұрын

Ironically yeah. As if the natives didnt do the,, lets call it, butchering, of each other nearly every other week.

@rezon5752 Жыл бұрын

Lol

@talex3844 Жыл бұрын

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. There were hundreds of American Indian population groups scattered across the Americas. Some were warmongering conquerors whose life purpose was to conquer surrounding territories. But others used political savvy and diplomacy to completely bypass all of that crap. You can see this so clearly in the differences between the settlement of Jamestown vs. the settlement of Plymouth. In Jamestown, there was serious concern about self defense from the American Indians nearby, but in Plymouth it was a whole different ball game. Rival American Indian populations were desperate to establish themselves as permanent trading partners with the Puritans, and this competition kept all of the population groups in a sort of power equilibrium. Because the Puritans weren't as quick to violence as the Jamestown settlers, they established very peaceful and mutually beneficial diplomatic relationships with the American Indians. You can imagine it looking a LOT like the power dynamics in the manga itself. I cannot disagree more about Vinland Saga falling off - these themes of mutual destruction as a result of paranoia are some of the biggest motivating factors for violence and the biggest obstacles for human progress throughout all of human history, and it's distilled so clearly in this chapter. You can feel Makoto Yukimura's reverence for history in the earlier chapters, and you really feel it even moreso in the new stuff. As a history teacher myself, it's only my favorite thing ever of all time.

@rovite359 11 ай бұрын

Ngl the most unrealistic part is the whole show, especially after his revenge arc. He's literally the seienen ver of Naruto's talk no jutsu

@SaulFavela-ld8kt 10 ай бұрын

@@LeoArmadaah yes, the singular tribe of “the natives”

@kreatywnyczek7503 Жыл бұрын

Vinland saga is amazing. I love the story and im waiting for more. If you dont enjoy this manga than watch mha or naruto or some other demon slayer garbage... Your opinion is mid.

@person-og6zw Жыл бұрын

Do not spread hate, my friend. You have your opinion, but it doesn’t mean that you can hate on another’s opinion. Spread love, not hate ❤😌

@niezuleanu5241 Жыл бұрын

@@person-og6zwtrue. We have no enemies ❤

@kev1310 Жыл бұрын

clearly didn't watch and read the manga and the video.

@bondrewd5935 Жыл бұрын

Look a toxic fanboy Who didn't even Watch the video🙄

@oofballjenkins3659 Жыл бұрын

Mha isn't bad 💀

@darnis6497 Жыл бұрын

I've been saying for a while that people should drop the manga after chapter 100. It's not worth it to keep reading. Like how Hokuto no Ken Isn't worth reading after Raoh is beaten.

@LeoArmada Жыл бұрын

One of the very few people that understand its issues without just blindly liking the manga as if it has 0 flaws.