How can one turntable sound better than another?

What is it that determines how a turntable will sound? Does the platter, bearings, belt, or the tonearm affect the quality of the sound reproduction? Using a little common sense might save you some money!

[@mArc01H1]

To me, this man is 1000 times more helpful than all of those audio experts with expensive equipment that are out there. Yes, I don´t blame them for they have, yes that´s awesome you pretty superior and amazing set up, but a lot of people are interested in smart, not sleazy guidance in buying the product for reasonable prize when began doing this hobby. Myself being a beginner to stereo set - up, whole technology about vinyl spinning, and this man helped and saved me a lot of money!

[@mericet39]

I am an audiophile and recently spent >£4000 on a new record player, and it's great. But it's my choice. I see quite a lot of anti-audiophile comments. Maybe some audiophiles are arseholes about it but not all. If someone wants a

[@svenschwingel8632]

@@mericet39 the thing is: spending that much money on a turntable can actually be reasonable. Belt-driven models, even in the 500€ range, often offer very poor W&F in the range of 0.2% (some Pro-Ject models come to mind). And there are reasons to get a belt-driven model, lower rumble being one. If you want decent W&F on a belt-driven model that challenges a quartz-locked DD, it's going to cost you. Also, a good stylus, maybe with a nice shibata finish, starts at 200€ in the MM world. MC? Well, triple that. You can get away with a 400€ investment for a decent vinyl setup that gives you a satisfying listening experience. And from there, the improvement curve is a steep one.

[@Coneman3]

Religions give the same feeling 😂

[@RightWing1]

They're called Audio snobs, its not about the music its how much they've shelled out on their gear.

[@vinyl.croatia]

@@mericet39 i bought my turntable for 100€ and it's pretty good. It doesn't have a perfect sound, but isn't that the real beauty of vinyl: not being perfect?

[@velchuck]

Well said! A breath of fresh air! Thank you. I’m just a average guy and on a fixed income! I spent 500.00 for a Fluance RT85. I love this turntable. My amp cost me 170.00 and my speakers were 400.00. I’m happy. I will bet that the audiophiles are going crazy over your video. I applaud you and thank you. Keep up your videos.

[@christopherhachet5184]

I also own a fluance and am Wildly happy with it. I also own a Linn Basik turntable. The Linn Pairs better with the Grado Cart, which I really like for certain kinds of music. I am going to try a few different Carts with the Fluance.

[@DJLNR.]

You made me laugh so much.. I'm with you when it comes to majority of today adding extra nonsense to something so pure and simple when setup correctly. . This video was a pleasure to watch and listen to all the way through. Thank you.

[@chuckheinze7]

Thank you sir! It’s a breath of fresh air listening to you. The word practical has been lost in our present day world. My turntable is a JVC JL-40. I’ve had it since new. It’s a great turntable. Back in the 70s when I bought it, it was I guess a mid level unit. It works for me. Has never let me down, and sounds great. I’m 72 years old now. My hearing is not what it was when I was in my 20s when I purchased the JVC. No reason to replace it. Even though I’ve thought about it. No, I think I’m going to go for a new cartridge. Thanks for your practical approach to hi fi. Keep up the good work.

[@johnhoffmanpaintings8512]

lol I have the jvc jl a20 and have been thinking about upgrading it to a fluance just because Ive had it for 30 odd years .....and the sony system it sits with for coming on to 40. not gonna happen now :-) I'll just keep experimenting with cartridges when it needs changing. so far Ortophon have been the best.

[@robertjermantowicz-uw3iw]

A cartridge upgrade is the best choice!

[@SparkY0]

Thanks for the shaving advice. I tried it today and my stubble has a much richer and deeper bass.

[@mus1970]

That's not a rant, that's just thoughtful and sensible. It all boils down to what you enjoy and how you do it. Some people want to buy bragging rights with super expensive audio/brewing equipment? Fine for them. I'll enjoy my own setups, humble though they may be. ("Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" is a great motto to live by!) All the best from the Netherlands, John

[@reworkfpv7359]

How refreshing, someone who understands the concept of diminishing returns and that the world does not revolve around the mighty dollar.

[@jgeaton]

Only recently I discovered your videos and a have to say I am hugely impressed. Not only is the advice and guidance you provide refreshingly simple to follow and honestly presented, your presentation skills are a fresh approach compared to most of the you tube videos I have watched. Your attention to detail in terms of lighting and audio recording is streets ahead of most others. I often turn to you tube for guidance on my hobbies and more often than not find the presentations are so hard to hear and see I end up turning them off with frustration. Please continue to cover all aspects of the vinyl world as they are both entertaining and helpful. I have just started to renew my interest in vinyl and am about to purchase new products from turntable to speakers and amplifiers and your guidance will give me greater confidence when making my choice. Many, many thanks and good wishes,

[@TheNoncritical1]

Having my Rega P3 played with a cartidge I was auditioining, and then hearing that same cartridge played on a Linn LP12, convinced me that tables not only sound different from each other, but some sound markedly better. If I could have afforded it I would have taken the Linn home with me. I still have the Rega, thirty eight years later, because it's a table that sounds good enough to enjoy music with, but I have no doubt that there are many tables that can outperform mine.

[@johnschofield3940]

I bought a linn sondeck as part of the Naim Linn £1000 system in 1983. This involved a LP12 Basic arm Naim Nait 1 Amplifier and Linn Kann Speakers. This system was advertised as better than any other system regardless of cost UNLESS the other system contained an LP12 Turntable *which was roughly half the budget of the £1000. After buying this system I did nothing but play records, very frequently for the next 20 years. I didn't upgrade anything- all I bought were records- lots of them mostly secondhand. If you are buying a turntable then save £2400 to get the simplest Linn Sondeck (which is oddly enough slightly cheaper than I paid for mine- allowing for inflation). Still not happy then look for used turntables like the Ariston RD11S, or the Thorens, or whatever you think. Having said all that let me say that in a Facebook Linn Owners group are the kind of zealots that make me glad I don't play records much anymore- and there taste in music is just rubbish... I've just paid £10000 for my all singing Linn Sondeck and I'm going to play a remastered/repressed Dire Straight LP ... erm no thank you stopped listening to that a long long time ago. If you love music and I mean really love music get a phone a dac, some good headphones and spotify because really all that truly matters is listening to music reagrdless.

[@tcoakley2265]

Would agree with you about the Linn. Listened to Rega 1, 2 & 3 & also Linn in the mid eighties. Clear improvements at every step on the price ladder, & the Linn was amazing. Like you I bought the Rega 3, but only because I could not afford the Linn. Had to replace the motor in the Rega a few years ago, & it sounds pretty good still.

[@engjds]

Isolate it on a shelf attached to a solid wall and you will negate the adavtantage of the 3 point suspension the Linn has, then its down to motor, arm and cartridge, get a Shure V15 iii on a sme3009.

[@skunk12]

When this video covered belts and RPMs, all i could think was "You spin me right round baby. right round. Like a record baby right round, round, round"

[@stofferrussell]

skunk12 Dead or Alive! Great tune.

[@robertjermantowicz-uw3iw]

That's Peter Burns - RIP!

[@Eyelonso]

I want to thank you very much, I'm looking into buying my first turntable and have been going through so many videos that go overboard into the parts that make up these machines. It has clogged my mind and made me feel that my budget wasn't sufficient enough for this hobby. I knew that there was going to be some diminishing returns, the only problem was the line had been blurred within these videos that pushed for higher end setups. I am more confident in knowing what to look for in a turntable and for that I am grateful.

[@brit-in-czech]

Thanks for making me feel good about my modest setup.

[@ianarthur3412]

If these audiophiles ( audio fools) had a shred of honesty they would acknowledge that they are first and foremost aesthetically driven audioists striving for the best looking thing they can create and convincing themselves that the sound must be on a par with the expenditure! Great video that validates all I feel about this hifi industry and the all consuming snake oil jargon ..... I added a cable sheath and rubber trousers to my 1dollar per meter basic audio cable (2m per cable) and it looks great, sounds great and more importantly does it’s job....( if anyone ever asks...I’ll say they cost $100 each and let them marvel )

[@SS-qy9ec]

One massive thumbs up to you! So true! You could waste so much money for minimal audio gain. If an Audiophile could pay for a band to play live in their living room, they would still say “ oh, if only I had blue curtains it would sound better”! Well done for making the vid that says exactly what I have felt for so long!👍

[@SPDATA1]

I totally agree 👍

[@Gamer420life]

This is a must watch for new LP enthusiasts. Learning sooo much.

[@rolandwagenfuhrer40]

True, so true!

[@jhareng]

Ok if you just want audio, but with that setup is never ever gonna tell any difference hence the few biased opinions. Quite a lots true as well, mine didnt cost that much because i did all the work myself rather than pay stupid amounts out on marketing hype.

[@PokeySoggybottom]

Thanks a lot Craig! I've finally decided to get back into vinyl after a 30 year hiatus and I consider you a 'one-stop-shop' for helpful and interesting information without getting too persnickety with the audiophilic particulars. This rant as you say (surely somewhat cathartic for you!) may have stopped me from going down that rabbit hole or up that garden path as you suggest! Your channel is indeed a boon to us regular folks who value great sound on a budget. Also loved your video on how to set up my record player properly. Thanks again!!

[@BPaul803]

This video is just a good reality check. Around 3 years ago or so my sister had gifted me one of those crosley cruiser things. Obvious points aside, I knew that there was better out there. Now being a student, money must be allocated elsewhere, but I remember reading up as much as I possibly could on what this crazy record collecting world offered. The following summer I came across a teac-300 in my searches. Naturally, this is not necessarily an "audiophile" deck but damn the thing is gorgeous. I fell in love with it. Most of that summer was spent saving remainders of my paychecks for it. When that package arrived at my door it was like I was 6 years old on Christmas morning again. I still use that deck nearly daily. Although I have since replaced the cartridge a year later. It's quiet and the speed is stable to my ears. It's does what it is supposed to do; play records and add some color to an otherwise greyscale color palette on the days I require its service. This hobby is meant to bring joy; not elitist snobbery because some have the money to throw around

[@vinylcity1599]

Brian Paul your right! I have a Sony, it's not the best in the wold, but it sounds fantastic! And it pretty safe on preserving my record's!

[@ferranmelero7727]

Brian Paul destroy the crosley

[@BPaul803]

Ferran Melero as I had said, that crosley has long since been replaced. It served its purpose. Being so bad that I relegated that thing to the dumpster as soon as time and money would allow

[@BPaul803]

vinyl City 2 and there is nothing else one can ask of their turntable. May your Sony continue to serve you well!

[@rlwings]

Brian Paul Lol, It's funny, I just read the first comment (Yours) after watching this video and you say you bought a Teac 300... Well, I just bought the same turntable myself and I am having the exact same experience! ... I love this thing. And yes, it looks really beautiful. It's really well made and sounds great! ... I live in Toronto Canada and I found it on sale at a local retailer, so I had it price matched at Best Buy to get an extra 10% off the difference. Best Buy had it for $499.99 and the local retailer had it on sale for $269.99. So I got it for $250. (Prices are petty high in Canada)... But I think I just might go and buy another one for the other room... Now that's luxury. :) ... Nice comment by the way.

[@kenp1508]

You are a breath of fresh air and very down to earth. I think you are one of the few people online who understands something about hi-fi and the point of listening to music.

[@garygracious9902]

HI Craig. Thank you for taking time to make these videos. You've really put things into perspective and have put my mind to ease.

[@fredzep01]

i am reviewer from a top UK magazine, and when i put a empty Walkers crisp packet on top of my closed record lid the bass just snaps into focus ohh it's phenomenal.

[@philip6502]

😁

[@BlankBrain]

Leaving the dust cover open when playing makes a difference on my turntable (when playing loud music). If it's down, low notes can make it vibrate and feedback to the cartridge. Static can be very difficult to control in low humidity. I found that cleaning the record on the platter with a grounded carbon-fiber brush helps a lot. Grounding is important! I have a Sony PS-X75 turntable that I bought, I think, in 1982. It has several unique features that gave it noticeably better performance than my previous (pretty good) turntable. It has a computer controlled "Biotracer" arm that responds up to 10 Hz. So, like a camera lens stabilizer, it gets rid of low frequency sounds like people jumping on a wood floor in the room or bumping the cabinet. It tracks warped records flawlessly. It also has a magnetic head under the platter that compares the speed to a quartz clock and adjusts. Here's the problem. The processor chips in these turntables fail at a high rate. They are unobtainium. This may be due to bad caps in the PS. The lubricants dry out and may cause the motors to draw more current. Due to "stuff," I haven't used the table in six years. I need to re-cap and re-lubricate everything in it before I use it. The turntable was not designed to be serviced, so it will be a challenge. If it works, great. If not, I've read that someone replaced the processor with a Teensy++ 2 micro-controller (with lots of time spent programming). Some old gear is worth repairing.

[@TheSkratchmaster]

That's because of the feedback - the sound coming out of your system is making the lid vibrate on your table - I think this is more concern about the platter feedback, not due to the needle on the record... but Craig is dam right - to the normal guy listening to music, platter doesn't matter what so ever!

[@jnc1771]

The saying is an audiophile spends money to listen to the perfect sound, whereas an audio fan spends money to get loads of good music to listen to.

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

Well said, Jnc.

[@bkkersey93]

Of course there's nothing wrong with doing both however.

[@Algabatz]

... one might even argue that the audiophile spends his time listening for faults in the sound.

[@Andersljungberg]

audiophiles are also looking for the best possible release of a particular album. and they can spend a lot of money on the single disc

[@ENGLISHISBEST]

An audiophile drools over hifi gear & even buys all the magazines or anything to tinker with the sound system but they don't stop there because looking & listening for the perfect sound is a an obsession. The average buyer who loves music will be more interested in the band or artist & albums & relax instead of listening for background hum or perfection etc. There's so much choice for all types of listener in any price range. even go second hand to get good for cheaper.

[@simonheffernan1767]

The centre platter bearing and platter matt can lower the noise floor. This helps the cartridge produce a more 3-dimensional sound. The inertia of a heavy platter can stabilise the wow and flutter. The wow and flutter can make the difference in sound quality. The platters dampening is very important. The little differences add to the best sound you can have.

[@yyams]

There's always gains to be had in such a mechanical system that come with advances etc in engineering. It's an incredibly simple concept but not being able to afford a fancy thing doesn't mean there's not value in a fancy thing to the person who finds it to be a benefit to their sound. As we all know, advances in build/engineering/price get into the sphere of demising returns, but there's nothing wrong with deciding your own place on that ascending ladders of price to performance. As mentioned, it's an incredibly fine device reading the incredibly fine vibrations in a spinning disc and turning them into incredibly fine voltages amplified many times to make music happen. Little things matter. A transformer vibrating away, a bearings smoothness, the ability for a tonearm to present a cartridge such that the needle can be presented at the right geometry relative to the tiny wiggles in a groove that represent sound. That little needle has a hell of a job and it's a testament to our age when modestly priced gear can do the job happily. That needle we hate to touch or drop etc has to guide the arm round an entire record and keep itself deep in the groove making wiggles, the poor thing. The chain after the record player, amplifiers, speakers, the room and speaker placement therein, etc etc. Everything matters. IIt's just a case of finding your own place in that accumulation of bits and pieces. Getting into vinyl shouldn't be expensive, but neither should it be capped at whatever price point one person believes is the best anyone could reasonably need. Of course more expensive gear, chosen wisely for the engineering that money pays for, can produce increases in "performance" of a mechanical device like this. That doesn't mean it's essential, nor does it mean it's irrelevant. For a first turntable - Try it at any price, the price you feel you can afford. There's always better (and different) out there, and if you want to strive for it go for it, love the process and journey. If you love the sound out of the first player / cartridge / phono stage you try, then play that sound you love and be happy. There's a place for everyone in the hobby of listening to music.

[@michaelrobert5535]

I was fortunate to live close to a great audio shop in the early 80's. One thing the owner was keen on was recommending gear that offered great bang for the buck. He lent me a Thorens turntable to try out (I had a fairly high end JVC). The difference was considerable and I bought the Thorens. I believe it was around $300; nothing crazy. Then he gave me some great setup tips. All that to say that yes, turntable X can be noticeably better than turntable Y. I always paid attention to the mass of the tonearm because vinyl was always a bit imperfect and the lower mass tracked more reliably. De-coupling the vinyl and tonearm from the room, for my ears, sounded better. However, the arrival of the CD made all of that irrelevant for me. While I thought the sound quality of CD's was only slightly better than my vinyl setup, it was the QUIET that sold me. I also liked how the CD removed the mechanical guesswork and let me just enjoy the music without messing with adjustments and setups all the time. I get a huge chuckle out of these cheapo turntables on the market today. Even in 1980 I wouldn't have let anyone hack up MY vinyl on one of those.

[@zogzog1063]

Metal platters do need to be damped. What you have to bear in mind that your hearing a 'dead' platter is not helpful. The vibrations come from the ambiance (and sound) of the room, the bearing, the reflected vibrations originating from the stylus in the groove. A moving coil signal is magnified up to 10,000 times. This will result in a coloration of the sound. You can do a lot of upgrade for very cheap. Maglev feet, good mat. Also effort in good setup and clean records are a free upgrade. Agree about the tonearm. I bought an Origin Live Encounter tonearm for my Technics. It cost about 3 grand. It was useless and sounded no better than the stock Technics arm.

[@antigen4]

were you listening through headphones at the time - listening critically?

[@michaeltb1358]

Maybe that just meant the arm could not correct problems with the turntable

[@geireinarsen3422]

I absolutely LOVE your contemplative approach to these matters - and who doesn´t like to be humoured by a decent rant? Subscriber from now on!

[@TheMrkaninja]

I don't know about you, but when I shave in the downstairs bathroom the bass response from my turntable increase dramatically.😉

[@OrionRahl]

@Vinyl TV: Even if I wasn't particularly interested in the subject matter, I'd still love this video because you have an excellent way of cutting through the bullshit. You present your arguments well. I'm clicking the Subscribe button.

[@andyj34]

Great video with a lot of sensible talk. Keep up the good work

[@andywray3446]

This is one of my favourite videos on the reality of getting a decent system together. My wife bought me a "decent" turntable as a birthday present. I have never had to replace it. I did add a decent cartridge and a good phono pre-amp stage and now have everything I would want from my setup. I've never stressed about the turntable or the arm as the cartridge and the rest of my system had far more impact on the sound. Well done on this video.

[@cartoonworld1000]

I love your channel and your videos. Keep it up sir and stay safe and healthy during this troublesome season

[@tdaonp]

Love this. The best anti-snake oil video I have ever seen! I'm an ex studio/audio engineer and life long (52 at the time of writing) audio freak and the amount of nonsense regarding sound quality I have heard is frankly amazing. As Greg says: think it through!

[@Burt0351]

I tested my turntable by playing a record on it, it sounded good so it's good.

[@Lord_Scabtree]

Using your ears? Both of them?? Smh tsk tsk! 😉

[@Tony-pk6ql]

Thank you soooo much for this video. I found myself scoping out a new, more expensive turntable, more expensive amps and speakers- all of which were beyond my means. Your opinion was exactly the Reality Burger I needed for lunch. Again, many thanks from Rockland, Ontario.

[@ezoxon2571]

I'm a newbie to Vinyl spinning and love watching his video as I can really learn a lot. Thx for sharing your valuable knowledge.

[@TheCookofthehouse]

The day you were born I was already 12 and daily listening to the Beatles Records since I was 8. I played my 2 LP, albums I should say since they are the American "Meet the Beatles" and "The Beatles Second Album" on a Dansette (those who don't know what a Dansette is, please look for demos in KZbin). My affair with music however started a few years before that, while listening to old 78RPM classic music with both my Grandfather and my great-grandfather. The mono AM radio was a must on Wednesdays cause television was still a few years in the future, not many but at the time it didn't exist for my Family. I ended up inheriting all the sound equipment that existed at my Grandparents home and my own home. I have three vinyl set ups at home and a total of 30 more turntables, 4 open reel recorders, a piano six pairs of Loudspeakers, and so on in what respects phono preamps, preamps, amps valve and solid state from the humble NAD 3020 to a pair of Rotel Michi RHB-10 SE and a pair of BAT VK 60. I've never sold an item but have stopped buying many years ago. I have heard music reproduced in many, many different systems and I can guarantee you that a better system produces a better sound but only up to a certain level. From then on, benefits are not proportional to the costs and it all ends in your capacity as an experimented "listner" and an attentive person. The final result is mainly subjective. Yes I understand what you mean but don't forget that the sum of many small improvements helps you better exploit your system capabilities.

[@edwardgiovannelli5191]

I recently bought a 40 year old Technics SL3200 from Goodwill for $40. After spending a peaceful afternoon carefully disassembling, cleaning and lubricating it, then replacing the fixed RCA cables with sockets on the back (the cables were all chewed up), and installing a new cartridge, I have a wonderful 'new' turntable that sounds every bit as good as any other turntable I've ever had, and far nicer - to me - than any of the new units I see on sale today for 10 times the price. This thing is solidly built and is ready for another 40 years of service, no pretense needed.

[@rolandwagenfuhrer40]

I did exactly the same, even the same sl3200, and i am just happy with it.

[@dominiccook9167]

Ive always been very happy with my old Trio KD-2055. Its Solid,Heavy and never gets howling.

[@BoxerTys]

Thanks for this video Craig, it makes me smile a couple of times, and i couldn't agree more on you, keep up the good work !

[@tedtimmis8135]

Very thoughtful and interesting. I replaced the cartridge and stylus on my turntable and did notice a sonic improvement.

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

Me too, Ted Timmins. I noticed a substantial difference when I replaced my cartridge with the installation of a new cartridge that has an elliptical stylus.

[@yogarl7]

Oh, so glad as it's only 85% of a turntables sound!

[@Peter-ii4xq]

You are not allowed to hear those differences because a lot of people are not able to.

[@MrSweelinck]

I think you've missed only two things. 1. The cartridge is important, that's where 99.5% of the difference is. With your Fluance, for instance, what is the difference between an RT-82, RT-83, and RT-84? Only the cartridge. 2. Isolation of the turntable. If the thing is put up on a "noisy surface" where it is mechanically coupled to vibrations like footfalls or a motor it will pick up those noises. This is especially true of turntables with a lightweight plinth. I'm guessing a big part of the reason you like your Fluance is that it is made out of a hefty piece of MDF. A turntable that uses a hollow plastic box won't sound as good and I think that can be demonstrated.

[@martinmullen71]

I love the rant, good sensible comments and ways of thinking.I have a vintage Thorens TD160 Mk ll its 46 years old I’ve just replaced the belt which cost me £9 on eBay there were other belts with the word Thorens on them, they were £40, but this is the first belt I’ve had on there that’s perform properly when switching from 33 to 45 without jumping off. A good friend of mine says just enjoy the music. I’m playing the same vinyl on there that I was playing all them years ago and don’t see the point of upgrading as it’s not a format that I use all the time, but I still enjoy listening to my classic vinyl rock albums.

[@DaveMichalakChannel]

I got a Thorens TD 160 from a friend. I gave it to my 39 year old daughter. I think it needs some going over, but she loves it. 50 years is a long time. She needs a new AT 95EX cartridge. Enjoy yours.

[@eddied80]

Thank you for this video! I just upgraded my extremely entry level record player with a Fluance RT-80 Turntable (on sale). The only “upgrade” I’ve made was purchasing a $12 rubber mat since static is an issue in my apartment. With that said I did a lot of research to arrive at a Fluance turntable and in the process have seen all of the audiophile videos about everything else I “need” to upgrade which can be overwhelming. Your video brought me back down to earth! I enjoy digging for & playing my records more than shopping for audio equipment. I, like you, am a normal guy who loves music. ❤🎶🎵

[@chinmeysway]

Ah static. Seems records are just like that? I just wonder if it collects dust more but have t looked to to it. Also a regular non audioperv here.

[@brazenbull636]

People should look at their turntable more like a musical instrument than an audio player. I got a stock lp120 with a vm540ml cartridge, a Schiit Mani preamp and some decent studio monitors. Puts out the best audio I've ever heard. Just keep it on a solid surface and don't bump the damn thing..

[@pierredoe6936]

Because I was a film photographer, I often compare TTs to cameras when explaining them to newbies. The camera body is basically there to hold together the two important components that will make a difference in you final image: the lens and the film. A TT is similar in that the two main components are the vinyl and the cartridge; the TT itself holds the two together. You can also compare rpms and shutter speeds. If you shutter speeds vary with every photo you shoot, you can never know what results you will get; if your rpms vary during playback, it can get very annoying. That said, I agree with most of what you said and I believe you only forgot a couple thing. First, the fact that when you spend 35000 dollars on a tonearm, you WILL hear a difference, whether you do or not, simply because you'd feel like a fool otherwise. And I don't think people who have that kind of cash to throw away like to pass for fools. Second, and unfortunately, you did not mention linear tracking TTs. They make a difference when they are of a certain quality. So maybe they don't fit in your idea of a budget for a TT. I own a Revox which cost me about $200 while I have good quality regular TTs which only cost me $50 to $70... But there's a difference I think most people can hear. Most people who actually listen I mean. To a lot of people, let's be honest, music is nothing more than background noise. Ask your friends when was the last time they sat down and did nothing but listen to an album and you'll understand what I'm saying.

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

Well said, Pierre. I am involved in photography, amateur, and understand your comments.

[@brucegelman5582]

All true...😉

[@mikesweatmore2408]

Nice work it all makes sense.I have had a lot of turntables as I use to repair them.i used to pick up old turntables from local dump most were just thrown out as people got rid of them.now it's very hard to find.but it's still nice to listen to records.love vintage record players.

[@metastaticmince2386]

one of the best videos ever ;-) thanks so much for humor and validation...way to go!

[@pcno2832]

20:22 I think the significance of the ringing is that if you have a motor, bearing and drive mechanism introducing rumble, some of the frequencies in that rumble might incite the platter to ring, making the rumble even worse. This being a direct-drive turntable, the rumble generated might be so low that the platter will never ring significantly. As for the speed, 35.3333/33.3333 is 106/100 which is about the ratio of one semitone, which nearly everyone would hear. At 33.5/33.3333, the notes might sound a bit off to a trained musician who is in the habit of tuning instruments perfectly, but many people would not hear the difference. The point is that turntables should be viewed in terms of the presence or absence of flaws like wow, flutter, rumble, noise pickup, speed error, etc. If you can't discern any of those things, improving your turntable probably won't make a difference you can hear. So, when I hear people saying a given turntable "sounds great", it's a little like hearing someone say that the drain in their kitchen sink works fantastically; if it's not slow or clogged, how much better can it work? The one exception to that might be the effect of tonearm mass, friction, tracking error, etc. on the sound of a given cartridge. If you take the best cartridge in the world (after arguing over the definition of that), take it out of a state of the art arm and put it in a 1970s BSR changer arm, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would claim to hear the difference; I don't know if I would. It would be a fun experiment, but I won't lose any sleep worrying about it.

[@andrewscott1253]

I suspect, with a good cartridge, you'd pick up all the mechanical wurr of that BSR deck's motor, and the click clack of the underlying changer mechanism in supreme definition. I remember those BSR decks well. However, to a point I do share your opinion. I own a couple of Technics SL1210 direct drive TTs and I am convinced, that's as good as it can technically be with respect to accurate rotation and convenience. However, what you get with more expensive turntables is more acoustic isolation. My Technics are good enough, I do not think the minor improvements a 10K turntable might bring are worth the return on investment. I'd put that money into a better cartage/stylus, amp, speakers, more records and keep the change.

[@lincmerc1581]

I remember how radio stations used to custom tailor their sound with the analogue processing equipment. (Mostly compression, treble and sibilance) Nowadays, the digital sound of everything goes out the same. Receivers, speaker systems and phono cartridges can make the difference. Over focusing on the turntable itself, can be like chasing the end of a rainbow.

[@MagnumOpus007]

This is great! Keeping it real, and telling it like it is!! I'm trying to learn all about the variables that influence listening to vinyl and I'm finding so many contradictory things out there, much of which doesn't make sense to me. I appreciate this honest perspective.

[@robertjschroff6307]

I absolutely loved it! ( laughed a lot! 😂 ) Thanks man. 🙏🏻😃

[@Titanius1066]

Above about $600 it is definitely the case of diminishing returns for a turntable. I went from an Audio Technica to NAD turntable about a year ago. Switched out my cartridge and did notice a sizable improvement in sound quality. A friend has a $2k Clearaudio table with the same cartridge and honestly didn't hear any major difference. He's happy, I'm happy but there is a heck of a lot of snake oil when it comes to home HiFi. Thanks for the good advice 👍

[@timwimer5370]

Honestly you hit the nail right on the head with this video....people are getting ridiculous with all this hype and products that are costing thousands of dollars that dont make a difference..thanks again for making this video!

[@dlokazip]

Thank you for this video. I've been using the same Pioneer PL-S30 turntable that my parents got me in the mid-1980's. I have never replaced it. Over the years, three things made a significant improvement in my record listening experience. 1. Figuring out how to adjust the speed. (It ran fast from the factory.) 2. Switching to an Audio-Technica AT-95E cartridge (now with an ATN95EX stylus) 3. Getting a Pro-ject Record Box E phono amp. That's it. I've always adjusted the counterweight correctly. The cartridge is properly aligned. I change the belt every few years. The anti-skate still works. The auto-return still works. I can switch from 33rpm to 45rpm with the touch of a button. Why change?

[@WingManDan55]

Great video! I couldn't have said it better myself. I am exactly like you. Back in the 70s I bought "higher end" equipment, and enjoyed playing my music. Flash forward 45 years or so to today, and I am getting back into this as a hobby. Wow! It seems that no matter what you look into these days there are the "snobs" and know-it-alls out there ready to rip you for what you have. Record players, cartridges, cars, cameras - you name it. It's crazy. It's as if "they" want to make you feel inadequate for their pleasure. Unfortunately I have let "them" bother me to the point where I have unsubscribed to many of the web sites. Or, I will stay subscribed just to ask questions now and then. There are still folks out there that like to trade ideas or help - and I try to help out when I can= , but too many times the "experts" or folks with mean spirited comments, or people who just throw out wrong answers, will jump in and . . . . Well, you know what I mean. Anyway, keep on playing those records and tapes and enjoying them. :)

[@JR3059]

You sir, are one down to earth dude. I am proud to be one of your new subscribers. Always looking forward to seeing your new posts. All the best.

[@MarkPMus]

All I can say is that you need to try upgrading your belt. I did replace the belt on my Rega P5 from the standard black to the upgraded Rega White Belt which is about £10 in price difference. In other words it’s beer money. The difference was subtle but nevertheless it was there. Likewise furniture does make a difference esp stands for speakers. People will get anal about the “correct” material these stands are made from but provided they provide adequate isolation from room vibrations you’ll hear much tighter rhythms and less sound colouration. The difference is actually quite amazing - and I’d say the same about having a rigid structure for amps, CD players etc... The platter and sub platter are also important. But as long as the platter is reasonably resonant free and heavier at the edges it should be resonant-free enough to provide faithful reproduction. I do applaud the fact that you advocate common sense in Hi-Fi. But there is a happy medium where a turntable retailing at £1500 or $2000 will give satisfyingly more audio fidelity than a £200 one where all the components are manufactured down to a price. It is because manufacturers spend their lifetimes tweaking and designing and tinkering and putting equipment out at ridiculous sums of money that technology eventually trickles down to prices we can afford. I live in a titchy tiny apartment and don’t spend money going on fancy holidays or meals at the finest restaurants. Neither do I have kids to drain financial resources. I’ve chosen to to splurge on Hi-Fi and cameras. My first TT was a vintage late 60’s Goldring Lenco GL75 bought for £70 in 2004. It was exciting and sounded fantastic - better than today’s low-end Regas and Projects I would venture - but there is every difference in the world between that and my Rega RP8 which has the exotic belts, power supplies and motors and in Hi-Fi terms is fairly reasonably priced at roughy £1500. I also think it’s a shame you didn’t mention the one area of vinyl setup where improvements can be made and again the money spent doesn’t have to be ridiculous and that is the stylus. The most basic requirement for faithful reproduction of what is on the record is that it should be a diamond elliptical tip. These can be either cheap or expensive, but it’s not unreasonable to spend about £60-80 for a basic good quality cartridge with a diamond elliptical stylus. Think Ortofon 2m Red, Goldring 1006 or Rega Bias 2. Exotic fine line styli are quieter and fit the shape of the record groove better but if you do have a £250 turntable the price spent is overkill and they’re a pain in the jack to set up and keep clean. A conical or spherical tip belongs in the realm of the Crosleys and GPO’s. Thanks for this video, you’ve given me something to talk about.

[@quanle2400]

Oh, I watched this video and listened carefully without skipping any second. I have to say that I'm really love it. I love the way he sharing and delivering the information, slowly and clearly. It's easy to understand for one person who come from a country where English is not the main language. I'm total agree with him. He makes me have to think when hearing any idea from audio master people. For me I only need an basic thing for equipments, then spend money for the vinyl music I like. The best thing when listening music via physical device is the feeling. It makes the life slow down and spend the time to enjoy the music. That's all to me. Thank you for sharing your opinion. I love this video.

[@Trojan0304]

Good advice, my old Pioneer 518 & Technics 1600 mk2 still keep me happy after all these decades.

[@markmarkofkane8167]

Before watching, I would say yes. It depends on the Cartridge, tracking, and electronics. And other factors. I will watch and see if I am right. P.S. the good thing about turntables is you can listen to stuff that was never released on CD or mp3. I listen to all formats.

[@jeffsims8270]

A-MEN! The whole reason I originally started listening to vinyl is because I had obtained releases that will never reach other formats-mainly local/underground punk.

[@sador42]

The only thing I will mention is the ATLP120, mine had a noticeable rumble noise from the motor that the stylus did pick up (only barely, but it was there if I listened really hard during quiet parts of songs, but mostly I only heard it between tracks!), I only heard it on HEADPHONES at higher volumes (mostly in the silence between tracks or in very quiet parts of songs) then I would normally listen but there was a slight difference between that turntable and the DENON DP300F belt drive turntable I purchased from Best Buy for $200 (which was less than the ATLP120!) to compare the sounds to. As you mention in your video I had to listen at extreme volumes to notice any difference (and then I heard the rumble only between tracks really during the silence) but I was able to hear a slight difference. I sold the ATLP120 to a friend and he LOVES it, he does not hear the rumble himself mostly because he does not listen on HEADPHONES or at extreme volumes and he does not care much what the silence between tracks is supposed to sound like!

[@thomasrandleman7057]

Great honesty and extremely helpful. And “great personality!” Thanks for you videos👏

[@Wichard1969]

really appreciate your honest talking..congrats! and thanks for the advise . keep it up!

[@svenschwingel8632]

There is physics. There are measurements. And then there is voodoo. An example: a rumbling direct drive system will transmit low frequency content into the platter and onto the record which will then be picked up by the stylus, altering the bass performance. Which is why it is crucial to dampen the platter on direct drive turntables. Belt-driven decks suffer less from motor vibrations yet often have substandard wow & flutter in the entry-level range (yes, I am looking at you, Pro-Ject and Rega). Direct drive decks usually shine when it comes to W&F. The cable capacitance between the turntable and the phono stage, along with its terminal capacitance can also influence the sound, especially for MM cartridges. Which is why you usually choose a short cable with as little pF/m as possible. And these won't cost an arm and a leg. At the end of the day, when your half-decent turntable is set up properly with a well-aligned cartridge, standing on a really solid foundation, there isn't much you can invest in periphery to improve the sound. Because from there, it's the cartridge itself, using clean records, a clean stylus and good care.

[@gmo4250]

I know you are questioning a lot of things without actually listening to any differences. I appreciate your opinion, but I would honestly say that tone arms can make a huge difference to the sound, I did not believe it would, but my ears were not lying to me. Keep up the good work.

[@nattyco]

Thanks for all that common sense. There is far too much snake oil in audio. The problem is a lot of KZbinrs are being paid, or gifted equipment, to spout rubbish. I like your lava lamp.

[@iliastakidis5771]

This video was so helpful. Thank you man!

[@sidvicious3129]

I have to agree with dixielandfarms, as I can agree with your overall point that you don't have to spend a ton of money on any component to get good sound. Craig you are also right that the audiophile community does have its share of snobs, but it is also wrong to draw conclusions about products that you either have not heard or tried due to their expensive prices. These arguments regarding the price of anything can be raised, the price of a home, a car, a by cycle, a motor cycle, a vinyl record, a comic book, it's all relative. The problem with your argument comes down to what it always comes down to and that's money and if or not someone can afford something. Parts of this video is showing your bias/snobbery toward someone that can afford to spend huge amounts of money, which is also wrong. A 35,000 tonearm is not your reality or mine, but for someone else it is and there is nothing wrong with that. None of us can spend what is in someone else's pockets. Never ever be jealous of anyone's debt and enjoy what you can afford and more importantly be happy with what you have. There are vinyl records that cost thousands, and to some it's worth it and to others it's not. A Brand new Harley Davidson motorcycle isn't cheap for some, but worth it to others, just like an expensive boat or a million dollar home. Before I say something is snake oil and somethings are, I like to do my own research and I'm blessed enough to have a great audio dealer that I have built a relationship ship with (90 percent of my system is used, but of great quality) so I'm able to try before you buy and I have come across things that were great and some not so great. To give the impression that there is barely a difference between tables isn't true, but those differences aren't as large as manufacturers state either. I don't know if you have ever had or heard a Rega turntable especially an older P3-24, but they tend to play faster, which adds to their prat-pace rhythms an timing, but bass performance is nowhere near as good as a technics 1200. My point is your argument can be made with anything including people and it's a circular argument. What's next amplifiers sound the same, the important point is buy what you can afford and most importantly enjoy the music. Discontentment looks bad on anyone regardless of the size of your wallet and no one should be scolded because of their purchasing decisions. Your sounding like the type of snob that you claim to hate and your videos are usually great. Take a chill pill and don't get worked up about what some one else has because in the end money doesn't buy happiness.

[@mikemadden2729]

Try listening on LSD. It don't cost very much & it lasts a long while.

[@michaeltb1358]

So every magazine reviewer just imagines the differences they hear? I will never forget the first time i heard a demonstration of the difference a speaker cable could make. It was amazing. Since then there have been so many attempts to produce the best cables. It may be a case of diminishing returns, but the returns are still there.

[@pranasvaicaitis42]

Differences are there, but main thing which does the job is cartridge, stylus and integrated preamp, if there is such. As for cables, it makes difference but how big are they? Very depends on a cost and other equipment.

[@brucegelman5582]

The cost/ benefit is microscopic.Most of it is group think and rationalization "after" the purchase.Snake oil all the way.

[@davidreece1642]

Just found your channel (nearly 4 years after published), great vid very informative. Hello from England.

[@mccarthyd6603]

Great video. I have been researching getting a new Rega for about a year....non stop on various forums. I have had a SL-1300 with a Sumiko Pearl for about 3 years. My plan was to sell my Technics and use this towards a Rega Planar 3. Upon getting ready to sell my TT....like an idiot in trying to upgrade I accidentally messed up the auto start mechanism on the tonearm and it would not play correctly....was so pissed at myself! Looked for a repair shop to fix this so I could list this on EBay and get my beloved brand new Rega 3....with all the upgrades(New Belt, Subplatter and Counter Weight) When I dropped off my TT to Dr. Dan in Denver(Who has over 35 years expierence) he gave me a loaner unit to use in the interim because he did not want me to be without vinyl while waiting....great guy! I took home the loaner....a Hitachi PS-48 with a Shure cartridge from 1976. Upon the needle hitting the vinyl was completely blown away how awesome it sounded and how great this vintage unit looked. Spoke with Dr Dan and told him I had to have this TT!!! We worked out a trade after he fixed my TT and it is the best move I have ever made! I have used my Deerhide slipmat wired to my Vincent PHO-8 Phono Preamp thru my Yamaha Receiver and I have a Nagaoka MP-110 on order. This unit sounds absolutely amazing and looks great. He added custom RCA jacks and it is perfect....goodbye Rega....funny how things happen for a reason....never would have thought this would be my dream TT but it is....I would put this against any newer TT for sound and looks and take this....just my 2 Cents... *******SLIGHT REVISION TO PREVIOUS POST*********** The ironic thing of talking with Dr Dan and his vast experience in Audio....when we met initially....I was asking him various questions about the research I have been compiling for 3 plus years on various forums.....Anti Skate, leveling, VTF, etc.....he finally cut me off and gave me the best advice......he said I am doing WAY too much research and trying to reinvent the wheel!!! He said if it sounds good and your are happy than that is all you need to know...all the other stuff is BS! This TT sounds amazing...I am sold and am done constantly researching Steve Hoffman Forums to try and find the perfect TT.....I have found it and ready to move on and invest in vinyl.....

[@DaveMichalakChannel]

Is your turntable able to hear pre and post echo on your Vinyl? Have you used a record clamp to deaden the plastic's ringing? Have you isolated the TT from the platform it is sitting on? Have you ever tried a moving coil cartridge? Good Luck "D".

[@mrboat580]

Still have my DD Hitachi from around 1980. It just never quit. It exceeds the capability of the source. I replace the cartridge with the same quality standard that it came with. I figure that Japanese engineers who designed it, knew how to optimize it. What has been the best upgrade? Cleaned/restored all of my LPs and continuous maintenance after the fact.

[@DJMikeBrady]

I bought a U-Turn orbit, and the motor noise was ridiculous. Sent a recorded sample to U-Turn, and they agreed that it was bad, but then said it was in spec, but as a "favor" they replaced the motor anyway, and gave me another belt for my trouble. *IF* the belt was actually the culprit, and a smoother belt would have eliminated the motor whine, I would probably still own that turntable. Instead, I happily gave it away to someone who wouldn't notice it. So I could see a situation where the belt could make a difference, but I didn't test it out myself because I wasn't interested in spending the money on a belt that PROBABLY wouldn't have actually changed anything. Also, there's a very successful youtuber who does Vinyl-oriented videos, who claims that his Deer Leather Mat gives him "punchier bass". That was the last video I ever watched from him...

[@veniceog]

Changing the mat made a huge difference for me. From the stock felt to an acrylic mat, it was immense. Actually, before I did it, I used another record first and experience it for myself. I have a Rega glass platter and acrylic work better on it.

[@mikemadden2729]

Equalizers work better than anything. 'Audiophiles' be damned! You might need 2 in series because so many recordings are so bad. Not to mention speakers. Get an analyzer & pink noise generator & see. You'll never be the same again! 'Studio monitors' are generally atrocious.

[@vsmichael1]

That belt had not a thing to do with motor noise period. Belts are not motors, belts only make noise if its had a baD spot in it causing a bump as it hits the spindle.

[@dredrotten]

​@@mikemadden2729) Madden by name Madden by nature. lol

[@mikemadden2729]

You shoulda been with me on some of my acid trips. Best sounding music ever! Even saw God on 4 hits once! He rescued me from the apocalypse I found myself driving thru, ready to have a heart attack! He appeared as a bright Light & nearly vaporized me! He was very cool, helped out & everything turned out OK.

[@CedricKarlFonk]

Hello Greg. I do.not have the words to tell you how delighted I am that someone (apart from myself) has publicly pointed out all these issues! I have been collecting records since I was 12 years old (back in 81) and I have had many TT's since then, some were cheap and then when I understood the mechanics behind a good turntable, I upgraded as I went along (and more money to spend on better equipment) I looked out for all that you mentioned in this video. I completely agree with what you said and I am glad you have what it takes to make such an educational and eye opening feature. Spot on mate, simply spot on. I have argued with fanatics, mainly on social media, on this subject but they keep insisting they are right and that they know best. Yeah.... if they say so. When I posted images of my AT1240, someone said 'not bad for a second choice..' I don't know what he meant by it, but seriously?? Thank you so.much for posting. X

[@jeffsims8270]

Craig, not Greg ;-)

[@elmometso4190]

Really, informative and good video about vinyl. Clears so many things, thanks.

[@DavidKennaway1]

I agree with some things that are said about speed but the platter and plinth do affect the sound. Feedback will get to the stylus. I have just changed a mdf platter to acrylic with a big change in sound. Tighter bass and more stable sound stage. If you don't think this makes a difference listen to a linn. Tonearms also make a difference. A cheap tonearm will not track properly and will add distortion to the transients that you can hear. I agree that the more you spend the differences are minimal. 1% better in a number of areas add up.

[@ScottGrammer]

Craig: While I agree with much that you say, and I appreciate your refreshing honesty and the way you debunk certain "audiophile" beliefs, there are some things you've said with which I disagree. As for the turntable coloring the sound, it can and often does. The platter can have resonances that are excited either by the stylus tracking the music, or by vibrations from the motor, or by noise in the room (including the music being reproduced by the speakers, if any). These resonances WILL color the sound. Then there's the bearing. A properly designed and lubricated bearing will make almost no noise, but this is not always the case. Also, a worn thrust bearing (the bearing that holds the weight of the platter, mat, record, and stylus tracking force), or spindle bearing (the bearing or more often, sleeve, that keeps the platter from wobbling) can introduce noise which can be heard on its own or which can excite resonances elsewhere. The tonearm and headshell often have resonances that can color the sound, especially with low-compliance cartridges, which transfer more energy to the tonearm and which also receive energy from the tonearm more readily. The tonearm bearings usually are not a problem unless they are worn or over-tightened, but in some cases they can be loose or out of alignment, and this can cause the cartridge to become misaligned - and as you've correctly noted in other videos, cartridge alignment is absolutely critical. In auto-return (semi-automatic) and fully automatic turntables, the mechanism that causes the return process to start at the end of the record can cause serious distortion because for the last centimeter or so of the record, the movement of the tonearm towards the center of the record is impeded by the auto-return mechanism. This is a major contributing factor to the inner groove distortion you've so rightfully bemoaned. The plinth can often ring like a bell, especially on cheap turntables. And since everything is mounted to the plinth, this is obviously an unacceptable condition. And then of course, there's the dust cover, which SHOULD BE REMOVED WHENEVER PLAYING A RECORD! A dust cover standing up in the air while playing a record is simply a big diaphragm, catching sounds out of the air and transferring them to the plinth and then to the platter, record, and stylus, all while adding its own resonances to the mix. Closing the dust cover helps, but not as much as removing it. With all that said, I still agree that the cartridge and its alignment are perhaps the biggest contributors to a turntable's sound quality, good or bad. OK, there it is. I've had my little say. Now off to work to fix some vintage audio gear! :-)

[@Strong4life7]

Your experience is valued greatly thank you

[@bobbyyounger7632]

Thank You sir, this is most helpful and beneficial vlog which I came across at just the right time, was contemplating a more expensive turntable when the one I currently own at half the price sounds great. AND cool shirt dude !

[@floriankeller]

thanks for that healthy clip! only one thing: "theoretically resonance yes it can happen". ever used turtables to dj in a club? yes it can happen big time.

[@johnmichaelrichards]

Something important I learned in the late 70s as an avid music listener and a hi-fi dealer was to learn to listen to the source material and not the equipment it's being played on. Audiophiles are too often indoctrinated the opposite way. If you like what you hear on your system then be happy. A Mini will get you from A to B just as a Maybach will.

[@Gemuk-man637]

Audiophiles are people with mental problems.

[@jenshoefer7944]

And 99.99% of the people can neither fully utilise the ability of the mini or the maybach. And so it is with the claim of hearing differences...it's imagination coming out of "brand" proudness and ideology voodoo...sure, lab equipment can measure the difference, but definitely not the ear of a 50+ years old self proclaimed audiophile

[@vuch9208]

Your video was very entertaining! Thank you for making it!

[@fishin11]

Bravo bravo, standing ovation!!!!!! I’ve said this for YEARS!! I’ve always said that 95% of the good music coming from a turntable is the Carthage. The the turn table itself!

[@coalyard4570]

Bottom line is, if you isolate and lower the resonant frequency of ANY piece of audio equipment, you will improve it's sound. This usually shows up as improved soundstage and depth, better transient response and decay. Or, disposing with the "audiophile" words, it's gonna sound more natural and easier to listen to. When it comes to getting great sound, fundamentals go a long way.

[@paulkelleway8032]

Why?… you can lower resonance by treating the room, you can’t isolate a piece of equipment in. Room that has sound waves flying around off walls etc, those sound wave still reflect off equipment regardless of if they are on an isolated stand or not. If someone is jumping up and done next to your equipment then an isolated stand will help, but I don’t jump up and down while listening to my music, for that reason, I’m afraid you are talking nonsense. If you have some scientific measurements to back up your statement then I’m all ears!

[@chinmeysway]

Buncha hoershit. resonant frequencies have to do w speakers and a room. Not a lamp or a turntable. Get over soundstage btw. Not everyone wants to think about a damn stage while enjoying music. So limiting to not let your mind wander. It’s just panning. It’s not a stage every time !

[@thomosburn8740]

A new belt (depending on materials used) could dampen vibration between motor and platter. Rubber would't sound like a gel or plastic material. Better feet or spikes can mechanically decouple the turntable base from external vibration, in the same way that a turntable with stock feet sounds different on a suspended wood floor than it does on a stack of brick-o-blocks in your basement. This is not audo-foolery, it's physics. The stylus is like a microscope. Any vibration created by the turntable getting into your plastic record will be picked up by the stylus, and greatly magnified. This is why folks clamp their records, worry out the platter or arm bearings, and spend nutty money on vibration-resistant racks to stack their gear on. I have two Project turntables, one has a much heavier platter than the other. The one with the super heavy platter has a lower noise floor. It's just physics.

[@vpvirta]

First of all, what a sensible and down to earth video of the topic. I quite enjoyed and laughed a bit! There is so much information and also misleading information about turntables all over the internet. Your rant is definitely very clarifying and spot on! Thanks Craig!

[@raymundcadiz7205]

Yup, spot on! 🎯

[@brucemcmillan5317]

Very practical and honest evaluation about the need to be realistic in the balance between loving music and the equipment you have to play it with! Great analogy, closer shave downstairs ... compared to upstairs?! Good advice. Thanks for keeping it real. :)

[@ProjectOverseer]

Since making this, Craig, you've discovered that decent Turntables do make a difference as do arms and cartridges AND phono stages. You don't always need to spend a fortune either. Love watching your journey 👍

[@eugeniahobbs41]

Phono cartridge more significant than TT.

[@mikemadden2729]

As are the better recordings, along with equalizers with tons of tone controls!

[@andreasleonlandgren3092]

Both are important i find. But you are right as well.

[@nicholasroos3627]

The phono stage you feed also needs to match that cartridge. RIAA EQ curves need to remain as such. No handwaving or audiofoolery involved.

[@rolandwagenfuhrer40]

The most important thing is the artist who plays the music.

[@dirtyths]

Not quite. A bad turntable can make a great cartridge sound dull and harsh. I install a lot of Nagaoka MP110's on many different turntables at the shop, with greatly varying results. The worse was on a Fluance RT81. I even changed it for another one, thinking it was defective. It was not. The sweet MP110 sounded like an Ortofon OM5 on this piece of crap.

[@Prosonic]

i really appreciate the debunking of the cost of such things i have more issues with my glass cabinets vibrating from my music than tone arms :)

[@danootto6382]

Fairly nicely done there Craig. I thought you were going to blow it several times, but you followed your own advice, and brought it together. I don't really fall into your 3 categories. I'm a vinyl realist. I own Fluance RT85 . You, by your mat experiment, showed that the material of the platter can be an influence to what happens in the system, and I feel via my many years in equipment, that motor drive noise, and vibration, can come back to an audible interference. Fluance has on my tt, a monitoring system that tests the speed some 500 times in length of time. I set up a simple inexpensive isolation for my tt. It is mounted on the wall on simple big box store shelf brackets. I secured my shelf level, then put a second shelf on with cheap rubber feet keeping the shelf from easily keeping anything major from reaching theturntabe.. simple 25 dollar set up. I also do not care what the rest of my system sits on. A low cost receiver by Carver, coupled with Klipsch floor speakers. ADC equalizer adjusts the frequency to taste. Whole system. Most on sale ran under $1200 (paid out over time). The sound is very good, with no colorized sound, that I didn't want. I disagree on tiny nonsense parts of your talk, and feel you're spot on in the majority. Only points lost on your platter ring, proved somewhat incorrect on your placing of the mat on the aluminum platter. I also advocate belt drive, in most cases. Sound/vibration isolation is somewhat important, but as you said, close your eyes, and can you really discern? Good job overall kiddo.

[@djscheisse]

test the activity of different tuntables with a stethoscope when playing. then you will understand. control of resonances - which potentially can influence the tracking/sound - is development goal on tt´s

[@rael2099]

Then I'll have to substitute my speakers and headphones for a stethoscope to really appreciate the music. 👌 Any audiophile stethoscope you recommend?

[@panzrwagn]

Somebody once said the perfect tonearm was a combination of infinite mass and zero friction. A phono cartridge generates a signal that is the relative motion of the cartridge body to the needle. The signal gain of 60-ish db - a million times - is enough to amplify to either be heard or to modulate the signal off the recording and thus color the sound. Aluminum resonates differently than carbon fibre. Miniscule perhaps, but in the right circumstance, with the right equipment, audible. If one belt has a rougher finish than another, that noise difference between the two could either mask or modulate the bass in some audible way under the right circumstance for somebody who was in fact listening for such things. Right now I live in a downtown apartment where the acoustics are bad and the city noise level intrusive at times. Hell, half the time I'm lucky if I can tell what song is playing, so those differences are lost. When I move back into a single-family house with a quiet listening room, and proper acoustics, those things emerge. Do they matter? I have had the opportunity to listen to 'record players' on which the owners have spend over 6 figures. And they were breathtaking. Can I get 99% of that for $10,000? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. Is that last percent worth $100,000? Not to me. Is the improvement from a say, $1,000 system to a $10,000 systems worth it? To me, yes. So the philosophical debate of value - is that last 1% worth the effort? That's what wins the Superbowl, the Olympic Gold Medal, the World Series, and sometimes, your life. Few of us have the capacity to find that 1% in most arenas of life. But when you do, the experience is one of a lifetime. And that's what this is all about, the quest - in some area of life - to have that peak experience. For some it's bowling, other golf. Some ski, some scuba, some climb mountains, and some race cars. And some listen to their stereos. Very closely. Don't argue that is doesn't matter to most people that's a d'oh. No activity matters to most people. The question is a little more nuanced and focused. Does it matter for the people who care?

[@arifriedman4779]

Craig, I've been doing the stereo thing for a very, very long time. My father was an electrical engineer who built our very first home stereo....to military spec standards. I have owned more equipment (both high end and low) than I can even remember. I feel I am enlightened enough to respond to this video. You, my friend, are so "spot on", so correct, so insightful; that I have to applaud you loudly!!! I enjoyed this posting to no end (as I have other videos of yours). Please continue to be a voice of reason in the wilderness of stupid hype and voodoo science. You are so correct - It comes down to the music....not the sound. Be well and continue to be a light to all of us....seasoned or green to this thing called "stereo".

[@keithmoriyama5421]

It's not always about the music, for me it's about SOUND. I love building super sounding systems. Owning s P.A. company and several recording studios, it's what I have done all my life. Sound engineers do not listen to music; they listen to sound. Do you really think that after mixing all day I come home and put on my stereo for enjoyment??? I own 7 systems, not one of them have a 'snake oil' component in sight-- I know what I'm doing and being in the business I can score premium gear for next to nothing. Thankfully the wife loves music and she uses most of the gear.

[@mechanicalslrlounge5138]

This video is brilliantly funny and informative, thanks Craig!

[@SlowMenThinking]

In 2 years Ill be 50 when I was 20 I bought a Thorns TD 165 second hand. 4 years ago the I replaced the Belt, I replaced it because changing the speed from 33 1/3 to 45 was becoming a pain in the ass It had been like this for about 10 years. The worn out part and the new part did have a impact on the music and it seemed more like placebo effect,. One day I decided to measure the effect and yes for the first time I actually managed to measure it, Not with my test equipment that I would have used in the day but with my computer equipment I use to record my own music, it ended up as a being a wow and flutter that was not relay perceived as something a human could here. There was no frequency response changes measured or over all pitch (speed) issues between the belts. I betting the belt I replaced was the original belt and it only got changed because it was falling off when I was changing the speed using the record speed changing mechanical belt leaver from the 33 1/3 to 45 position.

[@JeanOffTheLeash]

Audio engineers use scientific tools in order to measure the differences between a $300 turntable and a $10,000 turntable. And no doubt, there's going to be differences. The question is, is your ear a precise laboratory with perfect measurement? NO! If the only tools of measurement we had to use were our ears, $10,000 turntables wouldn't exist, because the ability of human ears to truly decipher differences is actually quite minuscule. Humans don't have great hearing in the grand scheme of things--especially people who have been listening to music at loud levels for many years (I swear, all "audiophiles" are 50+ men with diminishing hearing). Thus, we have the bullshit with "audiophiles." It's not about the music for them. It's essentially a pissing contest of who can engineer or acquire the "best" system. It essentially becomes a never ending quest to satisfy some strange desire of acoustic perfection, whether you can hear it or not. Dude, it's a needle being dragged atop plastic. That's it. That's the medium. If you can't thoroughly enjoy a record unless it's on a $10,000 system, I feel very sorry for you. When I was in high school, I was happy to listen to mixed tapes ripped off of FM radio waves. Me and my friends recorded our music on a crappy 4-track recorder and replayed it on a Dell PC with computer speakers. We had a blast. What this man is saying is that audiophiles are completely wrong when they say you can't get beautifully accurate sound from an inexpensive system. This doesn't mean a Crosley plugged into a portable speaker. We're talking about quality equipment that has been properly set up. I would love to do a blind listening test between my ~$800 system and your system in the same room with same record and see if 10 random "audiophiles" could tell the difference. Luckily for me, they've already done such tests and the results don't look so great. One such study showed that only a tiny percentage of self-described audiophiles gathered in a room using a blind test could even decipher between a CD player and a record player, let alone between two different quality turntables. Vinyl is about the experience of collecting and caring for the medium. It's about the intimacy that one has with an analog format. It's not about an endless pursuit of making sure my TT is has the best metrics according to a lab test. You're missing the point. And just to use a nice metaphor, I'd like for you all to read this story about Tom Petty's quest to reproduce his favorite kind of coffee, which just so happened to be Folgers brewed through an industrial coffee maker at a diner he visited. To him, that was the best coffee he'd ever had. It wasn't fancy. It wasn't special. It was available to anyone who might visit that place and spend the $1.50 for a cup of joe. That same experience can be re-created with a modest turntable setup, and we enjoy them just as much as your $10,000 one. Don't tell us there's a difference, because A) it doesn't matter and B) I guarantee that you wouldn't be able to tell if there was. www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/tom-petty-death-biographer-warren-zanes-731414/

[@Matasky2010]

I would really have to question HOW HIGH was Tom Petty when he had such a satisfying experience with a cup of Folgers at a diner?? LOL!! RIP dude...And now on the coffee forums there's a bunch of people fighting over the legitimacy of Folgers as a true quality coffee...

[@stofferrussell]

Wonderful comment! Yes it's all about the experience and also for us older folk, reliving memories by replaying the records of our youth!

[@niallms83]

Boom! Absolutely right. The audiophile nonsense is just that. Nonsense. I used to work in HiFi and had deaf customers (not even joking, they had hearing aids) claim they could hear differences between cables. Go onto any forum and you’ll find people swear they heard a difference when they changed their wall outlet to an audiophile grade one with carbon fibre faceplate. It’s just complete gullibility and stupidity and a total lack of respect for science. I love records but the format is objectively flawed and spending huge money will never fix that.

[@SuspiciousAra]

TLDR yes or no?

[@MARTIN201199]

You’re totally wrong. There’s a huge difference. $9,700

[@Tnapvrvideo]

You touched on the two most significant features of any turntable. Speed control is #1. Motor noise is #2. Beginning with speed, you CAN hear speed variations in the playback of a recording IF IF IF you have a very expensive stereo system that has the capability to extract and reveal subtle nuances and intricate details within the recording. I HAVE been to high end stores to test this assertion, and platter SPEED IS AUDIBLE. A high end system that highlights a single pluck on the guitar string, a single strike on a piano key, and/or the momentary alteration of a singer's voice will sound different if you play the song at 33 1/3 and then again at 33 1/2. Of course, you have to be listening with excellent focus to hear the difference in the playback. But, it is there. I am of the mindset that a turntable should have SPEED control. I was born in 1960. I lived through the vinyl era. I owned a basic, mid-level, direct drive, Pioneer turntable, and it had speed control and a strobe light. It had two metal knobs that allowed you to adjust the platter speed either faster or slower, as needed. I used those speed adjustment knobs with every album because albums have different thicknesses and different weights. Having SPEED adjustment capability is a must. Motor noise is the other determining factor when purchasing a turntable. That's pretty basic. Turn it on, if you hear the motor, look elsewhere. Speed adjustment was a basic throw-in feature back in the day when I was listening to vinyl. My basic Pioneer turntable had it. Now, they make that a very expensive add-on feature to every turntable which is pathetic. I am CD only these days, however, if I were to get back into vinyl, I would buy a used turntable on eBay that has speed control. That's how important that feature is in my experience, but I refuse to pay $2000 or more to get a turntable that offers that simple yet important feature. eBay has vintage turntables that cost under $750, and they are superb! In conclusion, I agree with with everything else this fellow said. I think he is spot on about all of these absurd 'snake oil' assertions being made these days with regards to turntables an audible playback. He and I disagree on one feature: speed. In the end, unless you have, or plan to have, a very expensive stereo system, I would air on his recommendation to ignore the speed concern. Great presentation!

[@guingo2457]

Very good and realistic advices from your videos and helpful information as well , and addition that you are a musician and working with a lot of sound and record equipment, your ears are the best tool to give us that kind of knowledge thank you keep doing a great job I’m from El Salvador and for me are very interesting videos to watch!