Virpil CM3 Throttle - Honest 2.5 Year Review

Here is my honest 2.5 year review of my Virpil CM3 Throttle Quadrant. I upgraded from the Thrustmaster Warthog throttle.
There are also options available from WinWing too which are a bit cheaper.
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My system specs:
VR Headset: HP Reverb G2
Trackir 5
HP Z38C 38" Widescreen monitor
AMD 3950X OC @ 4.3GHz
Nvidia RTX 3090
64GB RAM
2TB M.2 EVO 970 SSD
HOTAS Thrustmaster Warthog + F/A-18 Grip
Virpil T-50CM3 Throttle
Thrustmaster Pendular Pedals
#dcsworld #virpil #throttlequadrant #winwing #hotas

[@CommandT]

Folks, it has been brought to my attention that the red toggle switches can in fact be configured to be 2-position toggle switches in the Virpil software. Here's a guide created by a fellow commenter: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIi0mYh3eNygj9E I apologise for leading anyone to think that this was fault of the throttle - it's just that Virpil's software is not particularly intuitive and I totally forgot about that fact that it even exists in the first place.

[@DaveyCooter]

The control set-up in DCS also allows you to configure switches in both the on and off position. If you open up the drop down menu that shows all of your available buttons, it lists the on and off position. They added this feature like a year ago but did not really advertise it well. It was a real game changer for my TM Warthog throttle.

[@CommandT]

@@DaveyCooter Ohhhh! That's interesting! Thanks for letting me know! I will have a look :)

[@droneforfun5384]

Very helpful review, this is not a ”..unbiased review, but I was having the gear for free from Virpil…” etc, this is a TRUE review. Thank you a lot.

[@delayed_control]

Most fighter jets actually have similar fingerlift detents. If not, the entire grip is lifted instead, or shifted to the side. Same for idle/cutoff, where it's not really an issue anyway cause you're not gonna use it in a fight. I have a lift-through cutoff detent installed using a minimum portion of the the axis. As for toggles: you can set them up in Virpil software to act as 2 way switches with separate inputs in each direction using toggle decoding. You can also use the software to transform encoders on the grip into axes, or to assign buttons to portions of axes. As for broken hat, it can be replaced at home afaik, write to Virpil support about it. You can also pop the hat tops out and rotate or swap them to differentiate hats more easily.

[@CommandT]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into that. As for lifting the throttles to go into afterburner detent, I still disagree with that statement. The only jet I can think of where it's the case is the F-16. I don't even think the F-18 needs finger lifts in the air to go into burner. And absolutely non of the Russian jets need it. But if you have specific examples of where this definitely the case, please do share.

[@theskyscav]

@@CommandT F-18 needs fingerlifts or a certain amount of force for ab.

[@CommandT]

@@theskyscav Yeah, that's my point "or a certain amount of force" - so it doesn't actually need finger lifts, except on the ground I think. And I'm not aware of other jets with AB requiring something like this (I know the F-16's throttle needs to be lifted, but that's the only one I can think of). Usually it's just a resistance point, and you can then push through the detent with force. That's the case on most fighter jets I believe.

[@richarddo7881]

@@CommandT Russian jet lack a finger lift but they also have the 'pedal' located in the front of the throttle to get pass the detent. You depress that and it allow you to move the throttle into AB. Export Russian fighter such as the Mig-21 in foreign service but with Western avionic also has 'finger lift' retrofitted on its throttle. Finger lift is especially prevalent in twin-engine US bird. But I haven't been able to find it on Eur bird like the Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, etc

[@UkraineStar77]

@@CommandT F-14, F-4 need sideways movement. Mig-29 and Flankers (SU-35 is what this throttle is heavily inspired by) all have fingerlifts/paddles to get into the AB gate.

[@EbonySeraphim]

I respect your review that bucks the curve on trashing the Warthog and praises Virpil to the heavens. I had a Warthog from 2011-2022(?) before I got the CM3. I still own the Warthog though it's on a long term borrow to a friend; but I must say I do not miss the Warthog in the slightest even though I still think it's a great throttle. Like you said, the zoom functionality in DCS on the CM3 is damn near perfect. You can only mildly criticize the precision of the axes in general, but when you're zooming in DCS you rarely need fine precision as you also have TrackIR or VR positioning that let's you move your head closer to the HUD or aiming element and you absolutely have fine control over that. I somewhat agree and disagree with the two 5 way hats on the thumb. While I can confuse the two, it's rare and I easily blame myself for not recognizing the clear vertical difference. But it's valid feedback to say maybe they can have a different surface so your thumb immediately recognizes the difference. This is a mistake I only make when I'm not as practiced wtih a particular module + mapping. I agree that someone could come along and make it better with the same, or possibly more, buttons but they are near optimal already. I absolutely disagree with the feedback about the detent system. What they have done is the best, or close to the best, system for swappable detetents with only the VKB Stecs possibly being better. Using the basic allen wrench, or even a basic upgrade to a nicer handle 2.5 hex, you can easily swap both detents in less than the time it takes to load a server/mission in DCS; and I have a fast nVME drive, 64B of RAM, and a 5950x. For DCS there's really only two sets you might care for into afterburner, and one set for idle-stop, or remove them both for helis. So keep those two in a small bag on your desk, with the screw driver, and you can hot swap away without leaving an MP server, and I have done this in practice a bunch. It is NOT like WinWing's Orion2 throttle system which needs substantial work and practice to maybe do it in 5 minutes, and before then 10 minutes. What you didn't mention at all in this video is Virpil's software. The ability for it to map axes to buttons is amazing. Playing an older game which doesn't have axes for rudder? Make it so that within 20% of either extreme axes presses a joystick button implemented in the device's firmware -- done. Have a mode for helis where the whole left/right throttle is 0-100%? Let that be the default. But jet's need to ensure you're at 0% just past the idle-stop detent at rest? You can enable a virtual axes implemented in firmware that does that too. Both axes are active at the same time and you just have to configure it properly in DCS and literally not even think about it. All jet's see the virtual axis that's constrained, but heli's see the raw one. The CM3 (and Virpil Software) perhaps isn't perfect though -- and these improvements I think impose additional hardware costs: but I would find a way to enable all of the rotary encoders on the CM3, to be axes instead. Part of the problem is DCS only sees those rotary acutations as button presses, and when mapped to rotary dials in cockpit, they translate too slowly or not accurate enough often times and it's very annoying and different among cockpits. I actually think part of the problem this isn't possible today is API limits. The CM3 has 5 axes by default. 2 on the TDC, 2 throttles, and 1 flaps lever, and I believe Windows (DirectInput API) supports a maximum of 6 axes. So if those dials were all set to operate in axes mode, there would be 5 (hardware), + 4 = 9 axes. I'm pretty sure Virpil at that point would have to have a firmware that did what WinWing does with mutiple joystick virtualization mode to split things up. Also the software I believe addresses your issue with the 4 two way switches on the CM3. You can create virtual buttons that activate on the opposite position of those switches so up and down are two separate controls rather than "on/off" for one control. While a lot of stuff you'd use "in flight", especially "in combat" are not well mapped to those controls, I think they are perfect for startup procedures. You can also use them for "shift modes", that essentially change the entire set of controls of your hardware on the fly. This is something the mode dial is advertised to do, but you don't have to if you don't want to use 5 modes. Flip it up, and all of those face controls are doing something engine startup related, flip it down, and it controls common in flight navigation stuff. However your conceive of how you want to control DCS is extremely accessible with the flexibility of their software and how DCS allows you to map controls. I would get a hypothetical CM4 that addresses all of these issues in a hearbeat. And I cannot understand how confident and comfortable Virpil's software makes me feel in terms of

[@BumpyLumpy1]

nice to get some more info on this throttle, I've been looking at getting this and i only saw positives. still definitely gonna get this because the issues are not to bad. thanks for the video dude, setting expectations correctly 😉

[@CommandT]

No problem, glad it helped :)

[@richarddo7881]

remember there are also other cheap & good option out there too such as the VKB STECS :)

[@BumpyLumpy1]

@@richarddo7881 eh, i really like the look of the CM3, and i already know that i love this kind of simming, so i might as well get the throttle now so i dont have to buy 2 or 3 Hotas setups before i get this one. however i might look into the cheaper options for my brothers though. thanks mate!

[@richarddo7881]

@BumpyLumpy1 all good. Mig29 is coming to DCS soon so if u like REDFOR the STECS design was inspired from Su-35 throttle :)

[@BumpyLumpy1]

@@richarddo7881 Thats really interesting, thanks for that fact! yeah the fulcrum looks awesome.

[@antongazaryan2532]

Ok, waiting for the review of your new throttle! 😂

[@CommandT]

Ha! Nah, I’m keeping it. It’s fine. I might have a very unique new centre stick though - video might be coming out in a couple of months if I get it working.

[@crashmetwice]

Nicely done! Enjoyed your video. I have the TM Warthog and the Orion2 from Winwing. The Warthog sits on the shelf if that tells you something :) Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Cheers

[@scottredford4801]

This review has convinced me to buy it but only because its clear your review was completely unbiased. I feel a lot of other reviews have been holding back with making any real criticizms of virpil, especially when virpil is pretty liberal at sending free stuff out to reviewers, it feels like they aren't being as critical as they can. Here I was finally able to hear all the pro's and con's enough to make my own decision about whats best for me. Thank you.

[@CommandT]

No problem, glad it helped!

[@clintonadams7942]

I use the 4 red switches for engine on/off for up to 4 engines like the 4 engine bomber in Rise of Flight. This made the most sense to me since you aren't frequently turning engines on and off during flight for obvious reasons.

[@NoFear1979]

You could perhaps use the rotary dial located at the 4 way switch that you broke with your slippers? It seems to offer good control of zooming back and forth?

[@fubarace1027]

I bought the CM-2 when it first released, like you I'm very happy with it. What I find myself doing is levering the throttle by grasping over the "zoom slider" and slightly to the left with my ring finger. This works well so long as I dont need to zoom in and out while I change throttle. Like you, I'm not a huge fan of the T1-4 switches, I wish they were real two way or three way hard switches like T5-T7, but they do work well in Star Citizen, so there's that.

[@tomskst-pierre6981]

I recorded a quick video guide on how to set up the red toggle switches to do what you want: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIi0mYh3eNygj9E Hope it helps! Virpil's soft is not intuitive, but it is certainly powerful.

[@CommandT]

Thanks very much for this! Super useful! I hope you don't mind, I created a pinned comment and linked your guide there of others to see easily too. Thanks very much! :)

[@lijinyan]

The slider on the right grip is the best input for radar elevation but you use that for zooming instead. Which input do you use for radar elevation?

[@CommandT]

I have an up/ down switch which is spring-loaded to Center on my F-18 grip joystick.

[@squid11160]

I have the CM2. It's pretty much the same except without the detent. I'm about 60% confident that you can reconfigure how the T switches behave. CMD/T not using T switches is just wrong Edit: I currently use them as you described for wheels/chute and dump weapons/tank

[@florin5389]

By default T1-T4 only work in the upper position. You can set them up in the software. Most you can think of can be done there.

[@airspro5666]

Thanks, thumbs up . Plus I subed .

[@CommandT]

Cheers!!

[@bomkata]

you can change the T# switches to work as 2 position in the software

[@CommandT]

Yep thanks, a few other folk pointed that out too!

[@PeypaMikko-1842]

Great review. I wish you could test the VKB STECS Throttle, but unless VKB sends it to you, I can't see why you would buy it just for the sake of testing.

[@CommandT]

Thanks! Yes indeed. Maybe some day :)

[@tomskst-pierre6981]

Stecs is imo inferior to VPC as it lacks the "flaps" lever that CommandT was talking about using for Harrier's nozzles. Stecs is also missing the zoom slider axis on the handle. It has encoders of course, but the axis is much more intuitive, smooth and quicker to use. Despite the problems (nothing's perfect), VPC throttle is the best universal throttle on the market imo. Winwing would be 2nd best as it does have the "nozzles" axis (2 of them actually), but not the zoom slider.

[@supermilo]

​@@tomskst-pierre6981it's not got a lever but it has an F-16 style zoom analogue wheel on the right side.

[@AndrewH2791]

Helpful review I was thinking of getting this but for the price of this throttle I can get the TM Warthog Hotas set (that I used to own in the past so know its shortcomings) and some desk mounts if I get the TM set at a discount.

[@kurotenusagi]

I used those red switches a lot when I was using throttle on the desk. When I mounted throttle to better place, I noticed that red switches are too easy to flip accidentally when reaching something else by feeling or by muscle memory. Would be fine if they requires more force. I also tried to use detent for afterburner but that gave arm pain quickly as lifts are somewhat hard to reach and during dogfight you have to enter afterburner so often. Push thru detent works better. Great throttle with some minor faults. Would buy it again if I had to choose now.

[@CommandT]

Yeah I have a similar conclusion :)

[@lucas9467]

if i buy throttle from virpila ,and the whole stick with the base from VKB, will it work?

[@astralagency]

Probably

[@ChristinanathanWesterfie-pr4jj]

Beautiful BABY!

[@eustacequinlank7418]

Great review, really thinking hard on this. I'm using the Warthog (alongside the Cougar throttle), but thinking about a change. I was looking over all the mods for the Warthog throttle that can be 3d printed a while back. TDC, F/A-18C radar elevation in the centre and even a replica Harrier nozzle mod that goes over the grey slider on the right though no constructive mod for how to set that slight wiggle you mention. I feel that such a fix should be easy, but I've not opened it up to clean since I bought it to have another look. I'm seeing WinWing (especially through their sales last year) and I'm liking the idea of modular throttles more and more. Support from them seems sus. Virpil are just down the road from me in the UK... might see if they need part time 'beta testers'! I enjoy the 'replica' side of sim gear also. p.s I saw those lovely TPR pedals sell on eBay for £120 once. Same seller had the F/A-18C Hornet grip for auction which I got for £90! edit: did you sort a fix for the red toggles in DCS? Add Combo and then the number of the switch e.g 01, 01_OFF if I remember.

[@CommandT]

Yeah someone did a nice tutorial about how to set up the red toggles 👍

[@florin5389]

You can configure the T1-T4 red switches to be ON/OFF.

[@astralagency]

There's multiple websites to buy Virpil controls from, which is the official website? Also, how long is the shipping period?

[@CommandT]

Just use the official Virpil website and send them a query regarding shipping and lead times. They reply very quickly.

[@ziljanvega3879]

The T1-T4 switches can be 2 position switches, but you need to modify them in the software. The software takes a bit of time to understand, but it’s very powerful.

[@NoFear1979]

I've mounted a keypad on the side of my warthog hotas throttle. I can't see the keys but what I did to get a orientation without seeing the buttons, was to attach small squares of welcro which is attached with a tape. I put it on center keyes 2, 5, 8. It makes a huge difference for orientating without having to look. You could do something like that with the white buttons B2 and B5 and then get a orientation without looking :)

[@CommandT]

Interesting idea!!

[@jaromirandel543]

In my case on TMHW throttle I miss the rotary axis. It is good for radar elevation and it is simply missing there.

[@YariRu]

I have a lot of VPC devices, and the throttle is the one single one I refuse to use. Because of the bad ergonomics. It's really uncomfortable

[@jaromirandel543]

5:55 - You know that you can assing commands to "button release" in DCS:W?

[@Lionheart1157]

Thanks for the great video. HOWEVER @ 4:58 and how many military fast jets that have a separate throttle finger lever to enter reheat: actually many important aircraft do, for example: F-4 Phantom; F-18C/D Hornet; F-18E/F Superhornet; Eurofighther Typhoon; Dassault Rafale. The F-14, F-15, F-22 and F-35 do not, but I think you will agree the 5 aircraft previously mentioned do matter, and this is probably why Virpil invested in adding finger levers to this throttle.

[@OberstStruppi]

@commandT You can remove the zoom jittering on the zoom lever. You need to set it up properly in the virpil software. I can share my settings with you.

[@CommandT]

Oh really? That would be great! I'd love to know how to get rid of it!

[@OberstStruppi]

@@CommandT I could send you a picture with the correct settings. Do you have a discord or something?

[@CommandT]

@@OberstStruppi Hey! Sorry for the late reply. Yeah if you could that would be amazing. command_t on discord :)

[@OberstStruppi]

@@CommandT Hey m8. I need an invitational link. greets

[@Furnace2552-cz8iy]

I love my CM3 but the joy on the back of the throttle (like a controller thumb pad) has had a small drift since day 1.

[@SeanLally]

Have you tried calibrating the axis?

[@Furnace2552-cz8iy]

@@SeanLally over and over. Even a dead zone doesn't help

[@SeanLally]

@@Furnace2552-cz8iy That's odd and a bummer.

[@artillero_arg8442]

esta muy bueno la descripcion , veo mucha calidad en el producto , pero los pulsadores de la palanca de gases las noto muy invasivas a la hora de usarlas como rallador de quesos (adelante atras , adelante atras...) Es una pena ya que queria invertir en el throttle virpil, pero como Argentina invrtio en el F-16 tendre que inclinarme al Winwing F-16ex o a la version Trustmaster. Saludos desde Buenos Aires Argentina.

[@chikokishi7030]

The push knob on the left side keeps getting unseated. I've had to disassemble mine and glue it down. It has soo many buttons but they are a bit soft and mushy. But at the same time they are hard to push without dedicating your whole hand to it. I dont like the red switches, very few uses for such switches. The software is a bitch to learn, but it's really really great and then you can reprogram all the buttons as you like. Wish the pov buttons were more directionally stable

[@chikokishi7030]

In reply specifically to your red switch comment... In the software, create a virtual button and assign it to the negative red switches. Then on is a button and off is a button. Likewise you can set the 2 ways on the bottom to have a button press at center

[@CommandT]

@@chikokishi7030 Thanks very much. I see someone else created a guide for setting this up in the software. I created a pinned comment for that for others to see too!

[@SurvivorToHero]

The rotary dial is wobbly on mine and that top right hat feels very fragile for sure.

[@Swatmat]

i take it this is not multiplayer compatible

[@CommandT]

What isn't multiplayer compatible?

[@Swatmat]

@@CommandToh, I’m not sure why this comment appeared on this video, it should have been on a DCs multiplayer map mod

[@guid8975]

Да всё что good тоже не гуд. Странные переключатели дурацкие кнопки. Дичайшие углы перемещения ручек. РУД опять делал инженер...

[@KnudsenSK]

You can set all your buttens up and make even the red ones 2 ways with the softweare. Learn your throttel and make a new rewiev after you set it up Thanks kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zpq9n4eCrrOUmZI