Visual Inspections - Scuba Tech Tips: S08E08

Some divers believe annual visual scuba tank inspections are pushed by dive stores to make a profit, not true. Alec shows the steps, special equipment and time required to properly visually inspect a scuba tank for everyone's safety.
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[@deebsdeebs8664]

Excellent video - cannot thank you enough for these. Just received by Cert number for tank vis inspections from PSI-PCI. These videos reinforce the learning.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Glad it helped. A

[@rickkinney2544]

"Candle on a string" "You want the valve to stay in the tank" - LOL. I love your sense of humor. Your videos are not only interesting and very informative, they are also just plain fun to watch. I can't wait for the next time you guys have your Sea Hunt get together down here in Florida. I would love to hear some of your stories in person. Some time, if you think it's worth the time, can you go over what has to be done to a regular cylinder to make it a Nitrox safe tank? How it is cleaned, etc. Thanks.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

That's a common request Rick so I'll run it by Kevin. NITROX. Thanks for your comments and support. We're looking at another Sea Hunt event. Don't know when but it'll be well publicized , if nowhere else, right here. Take care. Alec

[@Phil-wu3qj]

“The devil is in the details!” That’s why I love this guy! Not that he’s on the back 9 yet, but I hope he’s training the younger dive shop technician because mediocrity runs rampant in our country these days. Keep up the good work, Alec.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Thank you and I try to raise the skills of divers to keep our sport growing. A

[@markstengel7680]

Hi Alec, similar to jets fuselage lifecycle. Thanks for performing keeping divers safe is the goal. The minimal charge is absolutely well worth every penny. I'd pay $30 once yearly anyday vs catastrophe. Take care Alec...

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

I'm amazed at how much people will spend to have their dogs groomed but then squawk at the price of regulator service. Do they think the dog cares?? Alec

[@Rustfish]

How about a video on the different methods and process to blend Nitrox?

[@owenmougenot712]

Hi Alec. That was quite interesting. If that second tank has a crack it would be good to show a picture of the crack in your next video just to drive home the message. I see where the guys comments are coming from, there are many dive store operators that don't take the time you did to do the vis. Thanks Owen m

[@323wagon]

Wish our tank hydros were every 5 years, here in NZ we have to hydro every 2 years and visual every other year, with multiple tanks if feels like they are always being tested and its not cheap. The joys of the hobby we love

[@ts440s]

Why can't I have a neighbor like this, the house down the street is for sale it's in Florida just in case the ranch is too cold.😁

[@ahmadalghamdi6145]

Thank you Alec

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Thank you for watching. Alec

[@markaskren1484]

So Alec, I have been diving as a certified diver since 1972, I appreciate and enjoy the novelty of using the gear as used over the years. I have a prized posession of twin 38's spun in 1942. They have the 1" FIPT threaded necks with the 1" x 1/2" NPT reducer bushings. They are fitted with the 1/2" post style K valves and a double yoke cross over to attach the regulator to. The tanks were spun in 1942, when I aquired them I looked inside to find a spotless unblemished interior. I sent them out for hydro, less the valves and bushings. To my expectations they passed hydro. This is the second hydro they have had since 1942. I am a pipefitter and I also have experience in fitting equipment for gas service in excess of 15,000 PSI , YES! I said 15,000 PSI. Pipe fittings are rated for specific pressures. I readily recognized the original bushings used in my doubles as aquired were rated for 3000 PSI. However there were no such markings on the bushings I could tell by looking at them that they were not 150 PSI bushings that one may typically find at the local hardware store. Nonetheless I found a pair of 304 stainless steel 3000 PSI bushings to swap out for the steel galvanized ones as installed in 1942. I have no concern or worries whatsoever filling them to the rated 1800 PSI and I have a great time using them. I havent seen or heard of catastraufic issues using these cylinders as configured with a 3000 PSI rated bushing but I would understand concerns using a typical 150 PSI bushing that one would typically aquire at Lowes or Home Depot etc. What is your experience and POV re my using and filling these using my own compressor for my own use! Like I said the rated cylinder pressure is 1800 but the bushings are 3000 PSI rated. I dont see any problem with this scenario and I think its a very divable system today as it was back in 1942. Enjoy your insight and Utube Vid's All the Best !

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

You have the knowledge and experience and safety concerns to ensure your tanks are safe to use. Most divers do not, so bushings generally are no longer allowed. Oftimes a regulation is in place to avoid a potential problem. Many older tanks are banned from use, not because one of them has exploded, but to avoid that catastrophe. When we prepare for our Sea Hunt events where every piece of gear must be authentic (meaning from that period - 1960s), we also ensure that everything meets modern standards. It's really not hard to dive vintage gear and adhere to safe standards. From what you have told me I'd say your rig is fine. Take care. Alec

[@user-pe8hf5xx2x]

Боже, в этом дедушке жизни на двоих меня. Молодец! Вот такой контент должен быть в топ!

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Спасибо за просмотр, мой друг.

[@azizkhan8554]

Hi Alec, Big fan. Any tips on caring for a transmitter? Happy to see your channel at 16,000 subscribers! Keep up the great work!

[@jeffgreenfield4174]

transmitters should be screwed onto the first stage or a high pressure hose hand tight. A best practice is to remove the transmitter before packing the regulator set for transport and storage. Just remember to attach the transmitter before opening the tank valve once you get your gear together or you will probably shock yourself and those around you with the load rapid rush of air coming out of the vacant high pressure port/end of the high pressure hose. I keep a couple of high pressure and low pressure port plugs in my save-a-dive kit in case I have a problem with the transmitter or mistakenly forget to pack it.....that way I can still dive ( i haven't removed my spg as of yet and would probably stick it in my save-a-dive kit if I did so that I could still dive if my transmitter goes toes-up).

[@ehabmourad2326]

You could follow the specifications of the device to check the valve of the scuba cylinder valve

[@WOODY11780]

Agreed 100% . Thank You .... NAUI / PADI Divemaster Since 1990

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Thank you Woody and keep on diving you kid. A

[@jellyfishattack]

Another great video. I'm guessing you won't do one on hydrostatic testing (there can't be that much to watch) but it would be interesting- unless you've already done one. I've watched a lot of your videos but not all of them (yet). Sea Hunt forever. 😃🔪🐙😀

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Can't recall doing a hydro video. It wouldn't be hard. Let me think about that. One problem these days is finding a hydro testing station. Years ago many dive shops had their own. No more! Thanks for watching. Alec

[@davedonati206]

Hi Alec I agree, better safe than sorry.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

That's why I'm still here at 75+. A

[@davedonati206]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Keep up the good work Alec! I’m a recent subscriber & getting many great tips from your channel! 👍

[@alaind831]

interesting timing as I just took my 3 tanks for their first ever viz last week! (I'm staggering them so I always have 2 valid at a time as it takes ~2 weeks to get them back - one guy seems to do all the shops in the area for hydro and viz). What you missed to mention: some Alu viz take extra care to look for early sign of cracks/fatigue, like the old Luxfer (72-88) that fatigued. Also explosions in Florida were much more common I believe because ALU tanks were (and still are ?) filled at many places well beyond 300psi and thrown away every 5 years as they fail hydro.

[@Teampegleg]

You are thinking of cave fills, they only do those to LP steel tanks these days. And cave fills are hard to get outside of cave country and a few tech oriented dive shops.

[@toriless]

Usually viz in done in shop and hydro is sent out to the one place in the area that does that. viz should take less then a week. Even a regulator rebuild should take less then a week and it is a lot more work.

[@MrRodgerMoore]

Hi Alex, love your work. Some ideas for potential videos to follow. Any video on long term storage of gear (3-6-12 months between dives). Also any truth on not storing tanks flat or full of air for long periods of time due to the risk of corrosion on the side when laying flat? This was the first I have heard about it .Also any ideas on how long the air is good in a tank? Months or years? Thanks :)

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

You're a mind reader Daniel. Look for a new Scuba Tech Tip on tank air two weeks today. I know you will like it. Thanks for watching.

[@elmo319]

The expanding and contracting of the tank when filling and depressurising is actually called cyclic loading

[@tomasvaldes2688]

I just started working at a dive shop, this video is super helpful. Got any more tips for a newbie?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Glad it was helpful! Lots more ideas so browse through the playlists. Thanks for watching Tomas.

[@Rustfish]

Good video! VIs are going for $25-30 USD here in S. California. There isn't a lot of competition though. I'd imagine they're much cheaper in Florida.

[@Teampegleg]

You'd imagine wrong. $20-25 USD in Florida.

[@alaind831]

I guess we have it good in N. California (Santa Cruz & Monterey) as they are $17-20

[@scottselkey4460]

$15 in Orlando

[@alaind831]

with a fill ? that's not too bad as fills alone are 5-10 here. I see some ads on craiglist for $10 VIP while you wait (no fill), which I may try next as I don't like being out for 2+ weeks

[@scottselkey4460]

With an air fill yes. Nitrox is a few dollars more. Orlando SCUBA Partners.

[@Floodbait_117]

I dont know if it is out of the scope of what you do in the shop but I would love to know how a tank is hydro tested Edit: no sooner than I posited this you started to talk about it

[@jacquespoirier9071]

there is an important distinction to do on the nature of a visual inspection and an hydrotest inspection, the visual inspection is mostly related to the quality of the air stored in the tank, the hydrotest is more related to the safety of the tank, at first to disqualify a tank that is prone to a catastrophic failure and the second benefit of the hydrotest is to avoid the progression of micro cracks by blunting their tips, it is the principal reason why they pressurize the tank at 5/3 of the nominal filling pressure. the design ofa diving tank is a compromise between a fool proof design and the weight of the tank so periodic testing is the price to pay for that. on the welding industry, there is an intensine use of pressurized gas tanks and the diffirence is that the logistic of inspecting tanks is transparent to the user so most of them function by tank exchange even if you own your tank, so, you from a refill to another, it is not the same tank you have in your hands.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Exchange tanks are most common in industry. I don't think that would work well in scuba. It's a good point that tank design is a compromise. Some divers are dismayed when I say that tanks could be designed to last forever and never corrode or need testing. They always want to know why they don't make them that way. The answer is simple - too heavy and too expensive. Take care Jacques. Alec

[@robotsforroboticists]

Thanks for the video. What percentage of tanks that you see fail the visual inspection?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Too small to measure. I'd guess maybe 1 in 500 at the most and they are usually very old tanks too. Old 72s from the 60's and 70's or early aluminum from the 70's and 80's. These tanks should be removed from service anyway. What tool or toy do you have that is subject to extreme pressure and abuse that has lasted more than 20 years? Think about it - lawnmowers, cars, refrigerators and so on. 20 years is like, 1998! If you are still using a tank from the 70's, it has cost you less than $5 a year. Take care. Alec

[@toriless]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter - I have lots of equipment that old that works. Although my cars usually get too old after 20 years and need replacing. For me, who cares of a refrigerator fails. You empty it and get a rid of it. My coffee grinder from the early 90's failed recently. So what, it cost me $16 to replace it and not one got hurt. Ironically, old appliance are more reliable. A 1983 GE refrigerator was made in the US and can still be good but a modern one is made an china and the quality is junk. My 25+ year grinder was US made. The new one is from China probably last only 1 to 5 years.

[@Khamcity]

I have to disagree with the statement "throughout the industry worldwide it has been decided, that one year is sufficient to have a visual examination". This is not the case in Germany. We have a law for gas cylinders in general. It states, that cylinders for breathable air need to be inspected every 2 1/2 years. At every one of these inspections, the tank is inspected visually and it is weighed. Every 5 years, there is a hydrostatic testing. Then again, the testing can not be done by the dive store. Only special examinors (usually engineers) are certified to do that. I don't know, why there s this big difference in inspection intervals. I don't hear of many accidents with cylinders, especially not bursting cylinders. Is it, because we mostly use steel cylinders? (Aluminum tanks have the same 2.5-year-testing-intervals here.)

[@jeffgreenfield4174]

It is the same in Belgium.

[@cue1gonow]

I'd love to hear your take on "oxygen clean," and the fallacy that goes along with it.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

'Oxygen clean' is a bit of a con. Scuba gear doesn't need to be oxygen clean if the enriched air (NITROX) never exceeds 40%. There is no danger to that level but 'oxygen clean' is now used to market gear and to sell unnecessary service. Now let's be clear. If your dive store fills with NITROX using the Partial Pressure method, your tank and valve must be oxygen clean since 100% oxygen is put into it. But not the regulator necessarily. One of the problems we faced as store owners was when renting NITROX tanks. It was a problem that we discussed many times without a solution. Basically, if the tank was O2 clean, filled with Nitrox and rented out, it was impossible to know if it was still clean when it was returned 2 or 3 days later. A typical scenario is that a diver would use the tank for a couple of NITROX dives and then, since the next dive or commonly the last dive didn't require NITROX, he would fill that tank with regular breathing air. Obviously he did that to save a few bucks but now that tank is not oxygen clean. How does the store owner know?? It's not likely the diver will tell him. The only solution was to clean every rental tank after every return - prohibitively expensive. The solution at my store was to NOT rent NITROX tanks. Not good for business but safe! Most dive store owners simply ignore the problem and carry on as if there is no problem. Good question Matt. Alec

[@alaind831]

or the solution is to have pre-mix nitrox at the store (like the boats I get on have - they add O2 somewhere along the line) - then nothing the customer owns has to be O2 clean. Voila! Q: how is filling regular air making the valve suddenly not O2 clean ? when you pre-fill with 100% O2 then add regular air, don't you have the same problem ? where do the oils (that can bust in flame with pure O2 I believe is the issue) come from differently ?

[@cue1gonow]

Thanks, Alec. Exactly what I was getting at. The idea that as soon as any of my breathing apparatus touches anything but pure O2 or "Oxygen Clean Air," the rating is devalued is really planning for a worst-case scenario, and that 99% of air fillers wouldn't remove an "oxygen clean" sticker as soon as they filled the tank with anything non-compatible is complete horse sh*t....

[@MichaelWerle]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter "'Oxygen clean' is a bit of a con. " Ok, that's a bit of a harsh blanket statement. YES, for recreational NITROX diving, "oxygen clean" is unnecessary. But once people start tech diving with mixes all the way up to 100% pure O2, it starts becoming more interesting. Are you willing to fill standard gear with 100% O2 to 150 bar or so?

[@spizrink7946]

Would it be worth my time and money to get a full test done on some steel 72 tanks for the 70s that still have air in them. Idk if I could resell them for profit if they pass.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

It would depend on the cost of the visual inspection and hydro test. If both pass, its a great selling point however check the prices of these tanks before investing. If testing costs $70 (guessing), and they sell for $65, decide to keep them yourself and be a cool vintage diver or pass.

[@seikibrian8641]

Question, and I don't know if you talked about this before: Back in the '70s my local dive store would immerse a tank in a barrel of water when filling it. Nowadays they don't. What was the reason for doing so, and why don't they still do that?

[@ts440s]

I think it was to keep the heat down while filling.

[@jeffgreenfield4174]

compressing air into a tank causes heat. Water baths were used and in some places still are used when filling tanks to keep the tanks cool. The reason why this practice has fallen out of favor is that if the fill station operator is not careful they can get water in the valve or the fill whip when deconnecting/connecting the tank to the fill station....the little it of water in the tank can cause big trouble as under pressure oxidation (rust) can occur more quickly negatively impacting the life of the tank. I believe in the early days of the practice of water baths it was also thought that if the tank explodes it would be safer if it happened in a vat of water than in open air....as if the water bath would provide protection to the operator working in the vicinity.

[@alaind831]

look for how to fill a tank tech tip. lots of discussions of water bath fills... and no water doesn't protect against explosion (doesn't compress).

[@rickkinney2544]

I asked this exact same question on his Tanks #1 video and he gave a really good explanation. If you get a chance, check it out.

[@toriless]

@@ts440s Yeah, I have felt the heat after a fill. All those molecules being compressed produces heat. It is basic law of physics. For every 100 psi increase in pressure, the temperature of the gas stream increases by 7-8 degrees.

[@benheckendorn2696]

Hi Alec, I got a high respect from all who does this inspection, I think you need to have great eyes to see the scratches. But when the tank was open and empty, don't you need to clean it? I wonder how it looks like if a tank need to be cleaned.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

The inspection light and training tells you if it needs cleaning. Picture white dust from aluminum tanks and brown powder from steel. That simple Ben.

[@benheckendorn2696]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I didn't know that, this is really simple, I thought it's like to search for scratches on a car.

[@leah854]

Hi , is there a course I can take to legally inspect tanks ? I'm in Australia . Thanks Alec you do a great job

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

I'm not sure about the good old down under Australia regulations but in Canada and the USA, PSI is an official Visual Inspection trainer for scuba tanks. Check them out to see if they have classes for you: psicylinders.com

[@leah854]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thanks Buddy

[@ehabmourad2326]

You are an excellent teacher, but what do the numbers S08E08 mean?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Hi Ehab. S08 means season 8 and E08 is video/episode 8 of that season. It is a standard used by many TV shows to track seasons and episodes. Thanks for watching. Alec

[@OverlandTT]

My local dive store charge £32.50 for a visual inspection (i think thats $54 Canadian). But what price do people put on their life?

[@jeffgreenfield4174]

what is the frequency requirement in the UK? Here in Belgium (possibly throughout the EU but I am not certain) the requirement for a visual is half the time between hydrostatic tests....so for a SCUBA cylinder that means a visual at 2.5 years after the last hydro date stamped into the tank.

[@alaind831]

$17.50 at my shop (Just dropped 3 tanks) - typically $20 but it's yearly.

[@HypnoticAbyss]

when a take is no more good, does the owner of the tank get money for recycling the tank? or discount on i new one? i know this could vary depending on the dive shop. was just curious. Thanks!

[@jeffgreenfield4174]

not typically....if a tank fails a visual (due to excessive corrosion or pitting) or fails a hydrostatic test the tank is condemned. Depending on the testing facility they will do a one or more of a number of things to the tank to indicate the tank is no longer servicable...one thing I have seen is a series of "X"s stamped into the tank over the data that was previously stamped into the wall of the tank. I have seen cuts or holes made in the tank as well to prevent it from being filled. Typically the shop/test facility will give you back the tank and you can take it to sell it for scrap, recycle it, or re-use it for an arts and crafts project. Some folks will use there condemned tank for low pressure applications such as working with a low pressure air compressor in the garage for things like paint air brushing, filling bike tires, and other utility type thigns...of course this depends on the state of the issue inside the tank. If a shop gives you a discount on a new tank it is just to keep your business/good customer service...I have never seen a shop have a program specifically to address replacing a condemned tank, but there are lots of shops in the world and I have only been to a scant few of them.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Good question Phoenix and great reply Jeff. Scrap tanks aren't worth anything. We used to toss out a dozen a month at my store. We had a scrap guy who came around once in a while but I had to fight to get $5 for an aluminum 80; nothing for steel. Generally, if the tank fails, it just fails, doesn't get an updated hydro stamp and is returned. Years ago we had the idea that it was our responsibility to destroy the tank, ruin the threads, XXX out information on the neck, drill a hole or whatever. But after a couple of customers complained, we stopped doing that simply hoped that no filling station would fill a tank without a fresh stamp. I know some divers who took their tank to a second store - and got it stamped!!! The hydro test is not 100% objective so that's possible. We had a Trade-In program at my store that was very successful in getting rid of failed or even old tanks. Any tank was good for $100 towards the purchase of another new tank. Effectively we sold the new tank at cost although maybe got a few bucks for the boot, carrier, valve caps, etc. But, as you say, it kept customers happy. No one likes to throw out sports equipment. Even $100 is welcome. Take care guys. Alec

[@alaind831]

whoa you were very generous with $100 rebate towards a new tank. That recycle guy could turn that 0-$5 and make $50 easily reselling them to divers :) As for not destroying a failed tank that is a good thing as early on hydro testing would frequently fail on Worthingtons (and others) HP hot dipped galvanized steel tanks, as they require special 'pre-stretching' before doing the final 5/3 test. I know I was worried when I first got mine tested to make sure they knew the steps, and what they did if they failed, because I didn't want someone filling the thread down because they didn't know - many complained online on new tanks being destroyed with no chance of second test or really proper testing....

[@toriless]

No, remove the valve and take the tank to a metal scrap yard to recycle it. If it s steel you might even get some decent money for it. Aluminum they will just take for free.

[@data790]

I need my 12 L doing. I learned the hard way. A few weeks ago I took a 15 l I got second hand and pressure tested it a year ago. It passed and all was good. Anyway, come dive day and the 1st stage was leaking at the valve. I decided to use my 12 l instead. Good choice. I took it to the shop and we agreed it needed a new valve. Champion I thought. We took off the old valve and OMG. The tank was coated in brown oil or moist rust. So, what did I learn? The tank can pass a pressure test, but if I dove with that tank I would be getting ill from the air. I am wondering if a good cleaning service and visual would keep that tank going another year? I left it at the shop 3 weeks ago and haven't heard anything. So maybe taking it to another shop for the visual and retest. Made me think about the other tank. In norway they say hydrostatic tests should be done ever 2 years, not 5 as in the UK. So even though it seems fine, the inside is a different story. I learned my lesson. If the valve wasn't defective who knows what would have happened on that dive?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

If the 15L passed the Visual Inspection the air fill may have been bad to put moisture and/or oil inside to let sit for a year. With rust and oil inside the tank will need a tumble cleaning, watch S10E05 Tank Tumbling to see why and how it's done. That could have been a disaster dive breathing from that tank. Good to know your a lucky diver Marc.

[@data790]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thats what I tell the missus. Love the videos, sir. Enjoy the summer season.

[@ts440s]

How should you store a tank long term, I've hear with at least 500psi is that true thanks.

[@jeffgreenfield4174]

500 psi is not an absolute thing...the idea is to store the tank with some pressure to keep moisture from forming in the tank. The air from a scuba compressor is dried to prevent introducing moisture into the tank which will cause oxidation (rust) quicker under pressure. Storing a tank with air in it helps prevent moisture form the ambient air diffusing into the tank....also many shops will require a visual inspection before filling if you bring them a completely empty tank even if one was just recently done because they can not guarantee without a visual inspection that the tank was not emptied while diving and there is no moisture in the tank. Another thing to note is that it is recommended that a tank be stored standing up if being stored for a long period of time....that way if there happens to be any moisture in the tank or any forms due to condensation if stored in non-temperature controlled area, there will be less surface area in contact with the moisture minimizing the potential area damage could form. A tank lying on its side presents a much larger surface area for moisture to spread over which can lead to much wider spread pitting, corrosion, etc.

[@jellyfishattack]

@@jeffgreenfield4174 Very though and well said.

[@mikesw214]

why are you not using bore scope?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

You could use a bore scope but the purpose is a visual inspection. If you see a problem with the eyes, then fix it. Using high magnification devices expand what could be minor to look really big. It also make VIS cheaper without the need for super expensive gear so more locations can do it.

[@aeromotive2]

remember Alec.. ppl speak on the internet from a position of ignorance and arrogance. I should know, i do all the time lol. Keep it up, ill agree with whatever you say my friend

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Thanks. What is this internet you speak of? Never heard of it. A

[@jellyfishattack]

I don't want my local dive store guys getting hurt either.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

They should get danger pay! Partly the work they do and partly the crazy divers they serve LOL. Take care. Alec

[@golanpeled8960]

Dear Alec, aren't you ignoring the fact that there is a difference between private and commercial tanks, so standards should be different? Second, since the tanks started to be visual inspected did tanks stopped to explode or valves to fl?! In other words , did anyone checked why a year and not 4 months like Australia or 2.5 years like in the UK. my personal experience is that my tank was more damaged from hydros and visuals since the amount of usage combined with the visual condition inside [sparkling steel] didn't justify the hydro. maybe the best way is a combination of usage and time, number of fills and and time from last hydro. there are people who claim that the visual is more important then the hydro, what do you think?

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Each country has its own standards for frequency of hydro tets. In North America it's 5 years for scuba tanks. Other tanks (non-scuba) can be 10 years or even more. The visual inspection program was originally set to be an annual examination. Some jurisdictions want it every 6 months; some less often. The choice of frequency is NOT related to accidents. There simply aren't enough accidents to provide any such data. Generally the frequency is related to the environment where the tank is used so, for instance, visuals are required more frequently in Florida than in Michigan. Personally, I think the visual is most important. The hydro test is a test of the metal elasticity and, excepting accidental abuse of some kind, scuba tanks should not lose elasticity to the point where they fail a hydro in their normal lifetime. Scuba tanks are good for hundreds of thousands of fills so unless you make a thousand dives a year (it's not that uncommon) and live to be 100 (not so common), your tank will last forever. You are right, Hydro tests are hard on tanks, perhaps (guessing here) equal to 10 fills, but even that would have no adverse effect on the life of a tank. Alec

[@golanpeled8960]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter thanks for the very aducating answer, as always. my ranting about hydros is that I had a tank that was sparkling inside [Poseidon 300 (Faber steel)], but after the hydro it returned with rash. and I had no way to make it just plain metal inside again. since I'm using it my self, it turns out that I dove with it only 100 times at the most. think about it, 4 hydros a lot of visuals , for nothing ... I guess if every tank had his log, then this tank would stay like new for many many years, hence probably not practical...

[@golanpeled8960]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter btw, I saw one site that recommend inflating the tank to 30 bar if it's not used for 3 months or more [I think they rely on Faber recommendation] but the claim is not about safety but rather on the steel fatigue. to my best understanding the repeated filling [in out in out.. ] is what causing the fatigue not the the pressure? do you think it's important that the Tank will be low pressure on storage? I keep mine with pressure so I can adjust my regs before diving. if it will be empty I wont be able to do it. and one more remark, is that it's a good idea to replace the air if the tank was standing for long period, they say the oxygen level is dropping [and it make sense too].

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

I've had this discussion before but here goes: 1. if storing a tank for a long time, say 6 months or more, empty it to about 150psi (10 BAR). That reduces the pressure on the inside and allows the tank to shrink to it's normal, unpressurized state. 2. air does not 'go bad' in a scuba tank. Oxygen is not 'used up if sitting in a tank for a long time. Let me add that a steel tank with any moisture inside will rust and rusting uses up oxygen from the air so technically oxygen does get used up. But, over a reasonable time, 6 months to 1 year, very little is used. Since you can safely breath air with as little as 15% oxygen, that air is still good. After all of that, combining the 2 theories, if storing your tank for a long time, let most of the air out to reduce the strain on the metal. Obviously you will need to fill it, with fresh air of course, before you go diving. Problem solved. Alec

[@Shoe1724]

Alec I love your vids been following you for years but i have to disagree a yearly VIP is a ripoff. Modern tanks do not need to be tested yearly. And there are no shops charging $10 . All the places around me average $20 a tank or more for a O2 VIP.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

You're right Shoe. Modern tanks do not NEED to be tested every year - IF the diver can guarantee it was never emptied. No other high-pressure cylinders require a visual test - only scuba. Unfortunately, it's the result of diver negligence or stupidity. The nature of the sport is such that divers tend to treat tanks like skates or skis and simply don't give them the respect they need. So the sport stepped in to protect the fill operators and divers. If you could guarantee to me that your tank was never empty, I'd simply give you a visual sticker at no cost. But you can't. And you're also right about the cost. $17 to $20 seems to be common. Still pretty cheap considering the $400 course needed to be an inspector plus the tools and the time to do the job. Even the stickers cost money. The cost of keeping everyone safe. I understand that there's about $2500 worth of safety switches in new cars - a switch to prevent starting the car unless your foot is on the brake, a switch to stop you from changing gears unless your foot is on the brake, a switch to prevent starting car if it's in gear and so on. I don't need them! I'm sure you don't either but, we got 'em and we pay for them. And we still have stupid drivers who get hurt! Oh well. Welcome to 2018. Thanks for your input. Alec

[@alaind831]

emptied tank AND valve left open for air/moisture to get in/out and corrode, otherwise a closed valve is still a shut system. Even with that some ALU tanks will fatigue and require visual to test. If I recall you said SLCs (Sustained Load Cracking) are uncovered by a visual inspection - NOT a hydro test. Also could you still get moisture in if you get bad 'wet' fills (a local shop insist on re-cleaning tanks when doing well known large charter boats and charge 3x - needless to say I no longer go there and have my own tanks now).

[@toriless]

@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter - Many of types those switch do not exist on my car except the annoying brake one. Being in park should be enough to start the damn car! My car just has an endless siren if left in neutral with the brakes on when the engine shuts off. It also will not lock the doors if you radio is on, how annoying!! The stupid headlights stay on after shutting down and locking unless you take it to a dealer to change that, etc. The Japanese are nuts!

[@peterjulianphotos4659]

Try Australia where a hydro is mandatory EVERY YEAR - then you'll stop complaining.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

The Australian government is notoriously "nanny prone". They believe that citizens are inherently stupid and must be protected from themselves at every turn. I don't disagree that many people are dumb but passing so many rules isn't helping. If you never let go of your child's hand, he will never grow up. It takes hundreds if not thousands of fills to affect the metal structure of a scuba tank. Annual tests for such a problem is pretty silly. Take care. Alec

[@leah854]

Hydro is every 5 yrs , visual every yr in Aussie

[@toriless]

10 minutes, to write down numbers, try 1 minute!

[@toriless]

More like $20-30.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Please give me a hint about what you're referring to Tory. I have to keep watching the video to find the comment you're discussing. Alec

[@bpkmm3048]

Alec, you said $10, 12. 15 bucks for a vis. Mine is being vis inspected now in the Lower Keys for $25. That's what he's referring to.

[@Richfxx]

Move to the us so you can enjoy sed free speech, awesome videos

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Hmmm. Interesting. If I call the Canadian Prime Minister a jerk in public, no one threatens to kill me. Free speech is the ability to speak your mind without fear of reprisal, being able to share your opinion without getting beaten up. I love the USA, visit often and have hundreds of close friends in America but nope, I am not leaving Canada. Thanks for watching. I hope you are getting some good ideas from the vids. That's why I do them. Take care Richard. Alec

[@toriless]

Uh, you must be real slow. Again, it takes about minute to brush the threads, not 5. Any mechanic knows this. He is certainly right about the light and shadows. Probably really only 20-30 minutes depending if work needs doing and how much air needs removing. High tight plus 1/8th (up to 1/4) turn like all plumbing.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

Didn't I say 30 minutes???????????? Well, there are mechanics and there are mechanics! There are plumbers and there are plumbers! And then there are regulator service technicians. 1. The part should be inspected first. Unlike wheel nuts, a reg service tech will not just start brushing a part without checking it out. It takes time. 2. Brushing, if required, means dislodged dirt, corrosion, grease, etc. A reg service tech must ensure that stuff doesn't fall into the tank or onto other parts or even onto the bench. Again, these ain't wheel nuts!!! 3. In my heyday, I was able to complete 4-5 reg systems a day and maybe a couple of visuals in between for a break. Many service techs struggle with 1!! But, I have fired on the spot employees who tried to rush a job by sacrificing cleanliness and care. Occasionally a problem reg, in bad condition or very sophisticated, can take all day. Or a bad tank. 4. There is no comparison between auto mechanics or plumbers and regulator service techs either in techniques or materials. Mechanical torque tables, sealing materials, greases, etc, simply do NOT apply when servicing regulators. First, despite appearances, regs and valves are made of brass. Regular tightening procedures will lead to disaster. Second, reg manufacturers have very specific assembly procedures for every component which must be followed for proper performance and the diver's safety. Third, 3000 psi or more - I always have that fact on my mind as I work on tanks and regs. With respect to the valve, once the valve base hits the tank top, an additional 1/4 turn with either strain or strip the threads. Quite frankly, once the valve is properly seated by hand, you couldn't possibly turn it an additional 1/4 turn!! Proper torque is 50 ft/lb for a 3/4" valve in an aluminum cylinder. That's less than the torque for wheel nuts on my wife's car (75 ft/lb) and a lot less than my F150 (150 ft/lb). Sorry, but I don't let my Uncle Joe who's been a mechanic for 30 years, fix my regs or check my tanks. And I do not refer to my 'Handbook of Mechanical Values' either. Interestingly I was an auto mechanic for several years a long time ago but I don't let that experience affect my regulator service methods. I'm thinking that you want your LDS Service Tech to hurry through all the other diver's regs and tanks so he can take his time on yours and do a good job! Take care Tory. Thanks for watching and for your comments. Alec

[@williamsweet7511]

I'm ok with inspections and required stickers, but it should be free or a minimal fee. It's like going to get new tires on your car and they do an inspection of your fluids, brakes, wiper blades etc... If it's a safety issue just do it and pass/fail the tank. It only takes a couple minutes and your business with increase. Charge more for the cylinder fills and give the inspection away for free.

[@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter]

If only so easy to do. Inspections VIS and hydro and government requirements so laws have to change. Not every LDS does tank VIS or hydros, most send them out so do they charge more for air than someone who does it in house? Lots of questions but the process has worked well for over 50 years. A

[@seikibrian8641]

First!

[@OverlandTT]

and?