2023 KTM 300 SX VS 350 SX-F VS 450 SX-F | 2 Stroke Versus 4 Stroke | Laptimes and Comparison

[@andresbraun4718]

All 2 stroke fans know that a 300cc with modern technology is the ultimate dirt bike

[@jpesicka492]

Wrong. I think they are shit. In fact I know they are.

[@mxcollin95]

Yup!

[@1176hambone]

Indeed

[@easley421]

Was just at the Kawasaki shop talking to the guy who works there. He rocks a KTM 300 and swears by it. If I had the money I'd buy one out right. Even with these cylinder issues I see online

[@jasoneardley2202]

Hell Yeah I added an ec 300 to the collection it’s bad ass🇺🇸💪🏼🦅

[@MMACHMP]

They should allow the 300 to race 450SX and MX

[@chalo212]

It would be incredibly fascinating to see! I truly believe 2 strokes should conquer once again!

[@jaysoniorg2950]

I love seeing these direct comparisons! It makes sense that the faster rider was faster on the 2t for sure. It also makes sense that the "one per month" rider was fastest on the 350. It might even boil down to physical fitness, realistically. Awesome video though!

[@DavidMinkCCCMD]

I picked up a 300 SX this month. I have one track day on it and it's insane. Great power. Amazing handling. Easiest to ride bike I've ever ridden. Coming off of a 2007 YZ250 that I have a lot of parts in and time on. If you're on the fence about getting a 300 SX, do it!

[@JoshStreetDesign]

If I've been on a 350 XCF for the past few years do you think I would like this 300 or what? I'm just super fast on my 350 and so used to it I'm not sure how it feel about the two stroke...

[@jkell411]

It won't change, but I really think the sport would benefit from a reduction in displacement and the elimination of restrictions between a 2-stroke and a 4-stroke. Meaning the displacement limit is set regardless of the amount of strokes. I also think a 200 cc cap in the small class, and a 350 cc limit in the big class would be optimum. It would be better for amateurs as well as the pros.

[@bruceeads631]

I agree with everything you said I would only add that maybe there could be 3 classes 200 350 and open

[@ericmiles1852]

I agree 100%

[@richardthoonsen8206]

people are riding 250 2 strokes vs 250 4 strokes every where in europe exept for the mxgps, the 4 strokes still win most of the time. mainly because the best riders are on big teams wich focus on the 4 stroke mostly. equal displacement is something that should be accepted everywhere in my opinion.

[@johnrickey5631]

a 125 four stroke would never stand a chance against a 125 2 stroke

[@jkell411]

@@johnrickey5631, that's why I said the limit should be 200cc... Just read the whole comment.

[@whatisaray]

This is going to help me a lot on the showroom floor because I feel like so many people overthink it. All great bikes different personalities all fun. As always Michael thank you for filming things like this

[@franzv3172]

Keep these up! Only thing I would like to see is just a few more testers...both those testers can ride a bike very well. I'd like to see some slow vet dudes like myself : ) Thank you for these tests!!!

[@ericmiles1852]

Im 51. I havent ridden a 350 but i find it hard to switch back to the 2stroke if you havent ridden one in a while. Mainly on a track. Front end high on jumps and such. Thats a yz250 with flywheel weight, lowend pipe and geared down one tootg on the rear sprocket. I tried to smooth out the power. But im pretty sure the KTM 300 with EFI is a whole lot smoother. I wish yamaha would make a 300 efi electric start.

[@romainbrb6935]

@@ericmiles1852 minarelli developed it already for Yamaha, 300 TBI with electric start. The engine is coming out in the Fantic enduro for 2024. So I’m sure it’s gonna come out for the Yamaha bike too.

[@Zarigueya007]

I’m 50 and os the best bike I have ride

[@SreidMX]

I feel like the Moto crowd is just now finding out about these 300 two strokes. The off-road world has been this way for so many years it’s crazy

[@ericmiles1852]

About time someone has some accurate data. I had an '09 450 and a '10 yz250 2stroke. I set them up identical. Same grips, levers, bars, seats, pegs, tires, i tooth up on the rear on both bikes sprockets. Same brand chains and sprockets and same air filters. They were interchangable. My laptimes were always within a second. The only things at that time. Which was around '12 when i had both. Was the 2stroke felt a little narrower in the middle. And if i didnt ride for say 6 months. The 450 was easier to get on and get comfortable the quickest. It would take me a day or so to get back up to speed and not be sketchy on the 2stroke. I have a 250 4stroke now (yz250f) and its just like your just there. Its just smooth and no real power to catch you off guard. Its like your just sitting on something and riding. No thrill factor. You can ride all day and never get tired. Its decieving in that i can put in more laps and not even realise i did. But if i had to choose, i would say own all three

[@Tmac327]

Mike you & the Vital MX Crew do an outstanding job, this was a great comparison! Keep up the awesome work and here's to an amazing 2023!!!

[@antrikkos116]

✊✊✊ 250 sx review would be great Can’t wait for mine to arrive

[@jeffgongas7808]

My son has his. I think you will like it! 5 hours on it. No issues at all as of yet, trying to fine tune what fuel to run etc to keep running good and also cool.

[@mxcollin95]

Damn the sound of that 2-stroke ripping brings back a lot of awesome memories! ✊

[@killerballs]

i ride a 2010 gasgas ec200 and ive been on plenty of 4 strokes. they just dont do it for me. 2 stroke could even be slower bike and still feels more fun imo.

[@taylorlatch2635]

Outside of pro racing, the 2 strokes never really died. You still see them everywhere. I'm glad they've at least somewhat survived in this sport. Now we have 2 strokes, 4 stokes, and electrics. Just need a rotary powered bike now lol.

[@parkcitymacs]

Great job. Do the same test with current factory KTM riders!! The dirt bike world has been injected with fun and tons of videos on the 300 now that KTM has ditched many TPI versions for 2 strokes that are strong powerful again in XC and motocross models. This was a great video to present a more fact based comparison. It was amazing to watch how fast Musquin was at RedBull rhythm on a new current model two stroke. It would be great to see a “hidden lap time” test with the factory KTM riders . Webb, Musquin, Pless…. Add the husky guys too! Toss in a purse of cash, for each model, so they don’t show bias. How far off are they on outdoors versus supercross tracks with a 300 versus 450 and even the 350.

[@matthowell1626]

If two-stroke bikes were invented yesterday, people would be raving about how awesome they were. It's only because of the displacement handicap in racing that they fell out of favor.

[@rickstrom6097]

Great review I've said for a while now to AMA needs to go with pure displacement or in the short term let the 300 sx and other 300's race with the 450 COME ON MAN!

[@tonyjones8623]

Dang, the throatti growl of the 300 2stroke is off the hook 💯

[@michaeljkasnter]

KTM we still need a 500-cc 2-stroke!!! Bring back that Nostalgia. Let’s get at least 70-hp

[@chalo212]

I raced my Jr years on 2 strokes, the 50cc, 65cc and 85cc. I remember the first time I rode a 4 stroke was a CRF150F and absolutely never looked back. Bought 2 250Fs then turning to the 450f (also 2). All of those bikes blew up, for one reason or another and were extremely expensive to repair. Was about to call it a 'career' and decided to try with 2 strokes again... Riding styles are definitely different and racing results are affected but man, what a joy they are to ride and maintain! Havent had an issue with my 250 2 smoker yet but its still too soon to tell. I would definitely give the 300 a chance over the 4 strokes regardless power outputs and lap times. Unless you are completing against Tomac, I wouldnt buy a 4 stroke! They are too robotic for me now! 2 Strokes are the SH*T!

[@mattcowlard4662]

Hey I'd love to see a KTM 300 Vs a TM 300 doesn't matter if it's the 2022 TM 300 I don't believe they have changed much

[@michaeljkasnter]

When your 52, a modern 4-stroke just never felt like the complete package. A four stroke is missing tbe smell/the sound/simple maintenance/rebuild ability. Running to my KTM Dealer to snag the first 2024-300-2smoke🎉🎉🎉❤

[@Peppermx]

Can't wait to see a video from the KTM 300 SX vs Beta 300 RX

[@Zarigueya007]

I got it. My new 300 SX is amazing. But still 3h of use and slow map. I think that the horsepower is similar than my previous 150SX but with more hp and torque in all the powerband. Sometimes the bike feels heavy in slow corners. (85kg vs 99kg) but once you gain speed everything is better. I love it.

[@oldguy1960]

Thanks for doing this test answers a lot of my questions. Awesome.

[@JustinBernoskevich]

I had my heart set on buying the new KTM 350 this year, but then I rode the all-new GasGas MC250 and was blown away at the rideability of that bike and how much fun it is. Nothing compared to the 2-strokes of the past. Most likely going with the GasGas MC300 now!

[@douglayman1843]

I ordered a 300SX, can't wait for it to get here!

[@GoProBlizzard]

Awesome video, great content ML.

[@j-sammys5549]

Awesome video guys. Love how you reference the weekend warriors and racers perspective! Every bike comparison should be doing that. Cheers

[@davidjmichaud4422]

2 strokes are fun, if you give it a chance. 4 strokes are fun also, but it isn't the same.

[@braaap690]

300 are too fun! And make great snow bikes too!

[@JayJay-mt2fc]

Need a comparison between the Beta Rx300, Tm Racing 300Mx and the Ktm 300Sx

[@mikeschlup5279]

Beta 300 race edition....

[@kirkdunn1379]

Beta looks bad ass, best looking bike imo......support though might be spread thin idk.... 300 xc is probably perfect all arounder

[@AverageBikeGuy]

Excellent review @vitalmx ! Great to hear from regular to fast riders opinion on the bikes

[@racereadyoffroadcoaching]

I'd love to see a YZF250 with airbox mod & ECU tune Vs a KTM350! These reviews are great by the way. Keep em coming :)

[@lukekelly5115]

The 350 lmao

[@stevefowler2112]

Re: 2 stroke MX bikes vs 4 stroke...I grew up racing when the AMA started switching to 4 stroke and they let the 2 strokes run for a while too...But they made the 250 two strokes run in the open class...that should tell you all you need to know.

[@russel419]

I want the 300sx to race the 250cc amateur classes. The 4t guys had the displacement advantage for to long.

[@eugenespreutels8305]

Great comparison, just what I've been waiting to see, honest, straight forward lap time comparisons. Interesting the 300 was fastest, especially on those drier, faster tracks.

[@mikedisano]

I would love to see the 300s racing against 450s!!

[@BeansBikesBandaids]

The 2 stroke is making a comeback boys

[@eric6rock]

TBI Two Strokes for the win 🤘

[@dereknagy4072]

Great vid more riders should watch these ,prefer this to the 450 / 250 shootouts etc ,you usually buy the brand you like anyway just shows you all these bikes are in the ball park in terms of overall performance , buy the one that turns your cogs thats why we ride 👍

[@scottpeters8640]

300 for the win ! That bike must be just fantastic. I also love the 350 and wish other brands would try to build one of those.

[@josephdowney4919]

Great video! Next do 350 ktm vs husky vs gas gas lap comparison.

[@russellcarter213]

Why two of them have the same motor. The third one is so close you might see one HP difference.

[@Phooku]

Please find away to compare Jamie's Twisted Development yz300 to ktm 300

[@chrisvids1820]

Cool bike. I ride a 1996 KX250 because it is a bottom and mid range beast. I think id really like this 300

[@Corteum]

What's the weight difference between the bikes? 2-stroke much lighter?

[@rcafmaintainer3723]

Awesome comparison.

[@DUNEATV]

These 350’s are awesome! 👏

[@alexarmstrong1134]

Thank you This was great insight 👍

[@MotoMatt418]

Well this is good news considering I put a deposit on a 350 earlier this week.

[@motoxmatt]

Great information! Thanks!

[@pbm457]

I would like to see a comparison between a modded 350 and stock 450 keeping total cost in mind for the judging.

[@raymondsiewert2720]

I can't believe Cole was 11 seconds a lap slower than Jacob ! I know Jacob is a National rider and super fast, but Cole can really scoot around the track for a guy that rides once a month . 😵‍💫

[@vitalmx]

Jacob was nearly on the podium in 250 Supercross just three years ago.

[@michaelchiappetta1702]

Just picked mine up… what rear sprocket would u guys run on the 300sx? He mentioned hearing. Would you go to 50 or 52 t? Thanx

[@dandersen464]

Interesting choice of music

[@shawntblin5423]

That 300 is calling me!

[@davidj.diehlii6607]

RIP camera lense @5:42

[@scottpeters705]

So many of the things that ed us to the 4-stroke revolution could have been altered if only the AMA and manufacturers raised displacement of our smokers to 165-175cc for the "125 Class" and 300 cc for the premier class.

[@leftyeh6495]

You can tell they're not 2 stroke guys. A simple changing of the pipe and silencer makes a huge difference on how they ride. Pro circuit or bills make pipes that pull to the moon, fmf has the gnarly that pulls hard off the bottom but signs off early, and the fatty that's just a nice boost across the board.

[@stretch34318]

I'm curious how the 300 can hold up to the 350 and 450 on a mx style start.

[@poullinneberg1876]

Not a ktm fan but awesome they Are beeing the firstmovers on the tbi Leeds Hope yamaha does the same Thing know the fantic is coming with tbi and e start

[@denots42]

I would love to ride one of these my yz450f was a beast compared to my old 01 kx 250 built for racing but the way yamaha made them they were too wide in the front and the weight distribution just felt a little off to me I wanted to try a 350 but I heard so many stories of them blowing motors quickly and backed out of buying one

[@glennfloyd8135]

I think the beta 300 vs KTM would be good content also.

[@Natedoc808]

And that settles it, ditch the 4 strokes and let’s get mixin’ gas and haulin’ ass!!

[@aklaunch]

GREAT!!!!!!

[@craighoffman6876]

The first tester is legit fast! The 300s are great for weekend warriors in off road and slow/difficult terrain too. They don't flame out in the slow stuff, and they don't overheat nearly as easily as a 4 stroke. If ya want to ride 5 Miles of Hell type stuff, a 300XC or XC-W with a fan on it is hard to beat. Riding an old school carb'd '18 300 XC here.

[@NONO-hz4vo]

I used to think the same thing but if you really are a weekend warrior riding local areas that don't look like Erzberg you are probably best off on a 200 2t. Even a yz125 is just as fast as a 300 in 99% of the riding and a so light and small it is easy to climb and maneuver up any trails that aren't extreme enduro style. My TE300 could climb up anything and have power to spare, but you can trade in that unused power for fast reving, light weight controllability, and smaller chassis. It starts to feel more like you are riding a trials bike than a dirt bike. I wish KTM would revive the 200 for trail riding. I don't know if I would give up my 250sx because it too is a lot of fun to rip through the woods and handles the long climbs with big rock faces well enough while still being a blast on the track.

[@craighoffman6876]

@@NONO-hz4vo Ya, and updated KTM 200 would be sweet. I rode 125s for years, rode a 500 back in the 90s in the CA desert, what a ridiculous machine that was 😆 200cc two strokes are ideal for back East woods riding. I live in Colorado, so my riding pretty much starts at 5,000 feet and can go as high as 12,000, where the 300 has to be revved like a 125. My 300 wears a higher compression head which is good for restoring the low end in the thin air, but if I go to Moab, which is more around 4K elevation, it can be a little much. Overall though, for the mountain West, the 300s pretty much rule for us mortal folks. 450s? Nope. No thank you, I am not Taylor Robert...

[@NONO-hz4vo]

@Craig Hoffman Good points. I am mostly in the foothills of Tahoe so 2-5k elevation with very narrow and steep trails where speeds are much slower than the more open Moab or CO riding

[@craighoffman6876]

@@NONO-hz4vo Sounds awesome! The older I get, the more I enjoy technical riding, as it relies on experience and the speeds are lower when I bail. I am too old to do the high speed in the desert hit a "no see um" with the resulting blue sky/brown dirt washing machine spin cycle over the bars thing anymore 😆 My 300 with it's gnarly high compression head enhanced low end would be a handful in your lower elevation riding area.

[@yamahawolverine466]

@@NONO-hz4vo Take a look at a Beta 200. If you're not hung up on EFI, it is the modern KTM 200 XC-W.

[@txmotoco]

Love Vital

[@Zarigueya007]

Anyway, even you are in 20’s or in 50’s without a minimum phisical training, you are playing with your security and health. I think technical skills are 40% and physical are 60% of your capabilities to ride at least 15 min without unnecessary risks. Such a miss grip your handlebar, or feel difficult to unaccelerate due your arm pump and overall lack of Ressistance and strenght. We know that riding twice a week, coming from zero, can work in approximately one month. Then more or less you begin to feel capable of control your bike and body. Instead of be like a dummy from the second or third track lap. Is really important. Any kind of training works, but the best is the best training: RIDE!

[@stanmartin-ij6rl]

So how would the 300sx do in the woods?

[@da5863]

I’m very very suprised that the 300SX doesn’t make more WHP on the dyno than the 350, 44 is incredibly low for a KTM MX 300 I know dyno’s vary but YZ250’s make 44WHP as well. It’s weird especially because KTM rated it at 54, it’s not losing 10hp to drivetrain loss, also the torque number is absolutely horrendous it’s less than even a MX 2 stroke 250.

[@romainbrb6935]

Racetech dyno reads really low, some 250f are around 35/36 hp on theirs.

[@toddkurtz7635]

To get high peak horsepower numbers you need high rpm. The 350 revs much higher hence the higher peak number. But as you can see from low to mid throttle the 300 wins. Peak horsepower numbers are not very important on bigger displacement engines. Low to mid is much more important in my opinion.

[@Corteum]

300sx already on the 450's heels as it is! Imagine with a 350 kit ---- thing will shred 450s.

[@russellcarter213]

I thought the same thing, a 328 or a 342 just a little bit is all it would take.?

[@mcchoco1019]

Nothing will shred 450 in Track , not even in drag race since 2011 2012 450f got 52 58hp and have much more rpm

[@Corteum]

@@mcchoco1019 We saw from the example in this video alone that a 300 is almost on par with a 450. and that's with less rpm and lower displacement. Also, a KTM 150 2-stroke puts out 42+ hp. That's up there with 250 4-strokes. So you can imagine what a 350 2stroke would be like in the hands of a good rider. But each to their own! :D

[@daneg]

4-strokes definitely have a more forgiving power delivery, but it has always bugged me that 4-strokes are allowed ~2x the engine displacement. Of course a 250cc 4-stroke is going to pull away from a 125cc 2-stroke. What I'm curious about is the actual weight and the practical weight of the bikes. 2-strokes were always so much lighter and felt more fun to handle. Have the modern 4-strokes resolved this issue?

[@vitalmx]

They're getting better but they still have more inertia character. The roll speed is getting better and can be improved further with aftermarket mapping options.

[@harrypeterson9287]

Back in the day every MX bike was a 2 stroke. Nobody was really even attempting to build a high performance 4 stroke bike so at first the double displacement rule made sense. It didn't take long before bone stock 450s were making 50+ HP, now some are cranking out over 60HP which rivals 500 2 strokes. As far as weight you're usually looking at about 10% more weight give or take when comparing a 125 to a 250f or a 250 two stroke to a 450f, in some cases there's actually overlap when using the lightest 250f and 450fs as examples. They still turn more sluggishly under acceleration and feel quite a bit less controllable in the air.

[@maxrpm2215]

Good point about the RPM more RPM = shit load more $$$$

[@pbau7769]

What is the msrp between these three?

[@holeshotinspectionllc2412]

🔥

[@jakewood4329]

Yah love the new 300 but wish the would of left 2stroke alone as far as kick start an carb! Estart an injection just more problems an $$

[@corey-em8kn]

Makes me wonder for the gearing on thr 300, up a tooth in the back to pull corners in 3rd or a tooth down to make it 2nd longer? I got mine a month ago and I've heard the gearing needs changed more then once

[@mikemajor5291]

I believe they are calling for adding a tooth to the rear. I’ve also seen similar feedback

[@barnescycle]

@Mike Major I just got my 300xc today, basically the same but slightly lower gear ratios than the sx. I think it's gonna be all-around the best bike, I have a 22 250 honda and a 17 450xc I plan on doing alot of back to back comparisons but I'm a old slow vet guy

[@metalofthedeath]

That was probably the worst music ever for a dirt bike video. It’s like your showing bikes from the Martha Stewart collection

[@mekarestnation]

why its always the same audio issue? you cant hear conversations because of their audio level, sometimes you cant hear them at all, they put the engine sound over the conversations....so hard to leasten..just saying

[@wtfftw24]

Two strokes is a better technology. If we think it was not developed till this 300 infection.. today two strokes would be even faster 👍🔝

[@levileatherman2055]

A new 125 VS the old 2001 rm 125

[@levileatherman2055]

Maybe a 90s yz 250 the 2000 yz 250 VS the 2006 yz 250 ....I could never get that 2006 forks figured out

[@leftyeh6495]

Well, 2006 and 2024 yz250 are pretty much identical. Just slap a new set of forks in there😂

[@bigdkay3052]

i wonder what the 300 will do with: high comp head porting remap aftermarket exhaust ms109. vortex ECU probs unlock another 10hp plus

[@westtigers220986]

nothing about the 250sx?

[@zackk695]

I was looking at my specs on a 1990 KX125 and it says 38-40hp depending on what you read. Now I was about to head up to KTM and get a 125SX but just read it’s 30-32hp. Something is not right. They would t go backwards in time would they? I’m 230lbs and want a lower powered bike but surely expected to have more HP than my 1990 KX125. I don’t get this at all. Someone educate me please.

[@vitalmx]

A 1990 KX125 doesn't make 38-40hp, it makes probably around 26-27 on a wheel dyno.

[@zackk695]

@@vitalmx That’s exactly what I thought. I went to go buy a KTM 125 today then noticed the internet said the KX had more power 30 years ago and that’s just not possible. I watched the test on the 2023 KTM SX 125 and that bike was very fast. The internet is wrong because it shows several places that the KX 125 around 1990 had 38-40 and it’s just wrong. Maybe the 250 but not the 125

[@leftyeh6495]

Dyno runs can only really be compared same day same dyno. I've seen the 300 dyno anywhere between 40 and 65hp depending on which dyno it was strapped to 😂

[@drkaymotorsports]

Beta 300rx vs KTM 300sx please!

[@BERZERKER888]

Another reason why AMA should allow 300 2Ts in the 450 class…

[@sesker15]

300sx vs 250sx like you said.

[@apriloneal3397]

Jacob Hayes is great

[@marcozuffada]

Freshly released 300 dyno chart from dirtbikemag show 5 horsepower deficit versus 450 and then 2 ponies less than 350🤓

[@georgelynch6139]

Why would you ride the same lines with the 300? You are a 4stroke rider or a 2stroke ride, 2 different styles

[@leftyeh6495]

No, you ride the fastest line on either bike 😂

[@RIPPERTON]

The 300 probly had the stock map which signs off early. Put a TSP map in there and.....no brainer.

[@senditsillly1423]

[@jonphotos8631]

Fastest lap times on the 300 but would not race it competitively???? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@mikedamisch]

He said he wouldn't pull a start on it.

[@leftyeh6495]

​@@mikedamischhe grew up on 4 strokes. I used to pull starts on my 360 all the time and it would drive the 450 guys nuts because "that's a 2 stroke! It can't do that!" 😂

[@mcgilm69]

Unless the bike has an auto mixture system, I'm out. I've done my time mixing fuel and oil.

[@godfatha420]

🧡🧡🧡

[@savagex466-qt1io]

So the 450 !

[@Kawiboy]

💪✌️😉

[@propacollector3499]

4 strokes suck

[@sam_s_]

Sound like the first rider was just getting faster as the day went. Now do yhe bikes in reverse order

[@bloomerb4162]

I think if your a 250f guy, just know the 300 might feel like too much power to you.

[@kirkdunn1379]

450 is just too much if it isn't your job to race....was that way back 2008-20012.....you can make a mistake and recover but maybe wouldn't have even had that mistake on more appropriate bike KTM killed it with 350.....perfect bike really Haven't ridden new 300 Did have KTM 380 back in the day but not even comparable am sure

[@richardferrell4362]

Jacob seems pretty biased right off the jump so I don't like that analysis. But good video otherwise.

[@delectablydiabolical340]

He actually said he thought he'd be faster on a 4t the first time he tested the 300sx, he just thought the 2t was more fun. So if anything, his bias was in favor of the 4t's, not against them.