vlog 15 - How Much Money I Make Building Pens in my Garage Shop

[@viliusr6974]

I was in your position three years ago. The business was picking up, the money was finally coming in. And developing new products was very exciting prospect. And I did start working on two new products, instead of focusing on business side of things. The new product design was a distraction, which affected business significantly. Luckily I survived, but still picking up pieces three years later. My advise would be to work on business, streamline the mundane repetitive tasks, but be frugal with expenses (new shiny machine is not always the only solution). And when you need a break from day to day tasks, brainstorm on new products keep log and sit a bit on them. So that new ideas mature and most importantly do not kill the income and the product which IS working and bringing in money. Good luck!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Wise words, thankyou for the insight...streamlining the mundane might be my favorite part of all that (and likely the one that leads to the best business changes). Thanks again.

[@tjkirkpatrick9451]

Great advise....

[@BalticBlades]

Been hobby knifemaker for the last 5 years, a month ago quit the day job, went for it, and I've never been happier then ever. Changing a great paying job to the one I love really does wonders, I dont care the I have to count money for food, I go every day to a job that I love! Just get started

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Boom, money is one of the most common things on earth...even McDonalds will give you it in exchange for time! Time and happiness however, wildly different.

[@GregsGarage]

"Start today." There's no better advice! You've got a sweet operation going and I love seeing how it has grown.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks so much Greg! Its an ever evolving process!

[@OhHeyTrevorFlowers]

One warning about Haas and most machine tool manufacturers, sadly: They make a ton of profit after the machine purchase by charging subscription fees for basic capabilities. For example, Haas charges extra for some gcodes like scaling and rotation. It's a racket so be sure you add that to your calculations when comparing costs.

[@technobabble_]

DMG Mori Seiki is similar. We have 21 at my work and they'll very half-heartedly give you some phone tech support but what they really want is to send a tech out. That's how they make their money. These guys charge 200 an hour for labor and 170 an hour for travel. Not once have I seen a tech come out and know how to do the task before him. Every single time they pull up a laptop and walk through a PDF on how to do it. They could have charged us 100 dollars for the PDF and it would be worth it, but they refuse. Additionally, we can't get our spindle motors worked on because everyone is scared Mori will come after them. You MUST have Mori fix or replace parts for twice what you can get it on the open market for. Kitamura on the other hand is the polar opposite. They give free training on all the basics, of course, but they even gave me maintenance training for free when i asked.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

I know! Its kind of gross...like just roll it into the price, of COURSE I'm going to want high speed machining options, don't paywall me for something silly like that. Suppose it generates cash tho. Thanks for the insight none the less (also almost everyone I've talked to with various Haas lathes aren't too happy...not high on my consideration list).

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Interesting, I like Mori's but service in my area is unknown. Doosan would probably win out in that war as I have fairly decent local support. Glad techs in this world are just as useless as they are in others! I have yet to see many Kitamura's locally (new or used) but I know a few guys running those and being fairly happy as well. Thanks!

[@scottwatrous]

At least on the Haas none of the upgrades are subscriptions, they're one time codes. The machine itself has a lockout to reset every 180 days as long as it's being financed through Haas, that's about it. I still haven't paid for HSM: for most of my jobs it wouldn't save much time and I still have like 20 minutes of demo time left after 3 years. At some point I'll get it once I'm making more.

[@tristencutshall5196]

This is really cool. Have a manual mill and lathe sitting in a storage unit right now. Thanks for the inspiration to get them out.

[@mptubes]

Curt I came across your channel when I was looking for mini lathe ideas. In fact I ended up buying Taig lathe and mill after watching your videos (they should defiantly sponsor your videos :). I got hooked since then. Very happy you start posting Vlog again. Its a treat. What you actually doing as machinist and business man is what many of us can only dream about but afraid to make first step. And thank you for this very inspirational video ! Please dont stop.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks so much! I actually reached out to Taig way back in the day lol (figured I sold them enough machines to try for something). Thanks for the kind words and for following along!

[@azrielfriedman3595]

hey how much was the lathe you got and have you had a good eperiance

[@mptubes]

@@azrielfriedman3595 great little tool. Very precise. Great tool for someone who wants to learn basics.

[@stanstocker8858]

Great information and advice. If I could add something for those considering making a leap, consider the nature of the work carefully. I started and built up a clock restoration business, and was nicely successful. Not wildly so, but successful. Well enough regarded that folks were still calling me four years after I shut down. I finally got a new phone number as I was returning three or four calls every week just to say thanks for thinking of me. The problem with my business was it was a service business, which meant having people dropping off clocks, picking them up, and doing house calls. NONE of these things scale, none can be automated. I upgraded machines and tooling and increased profits, efficiency, and capacity for the actual work on the clocks themselves, but a three hour house call with travel time will always take three hours. Looking back (retired now) a light manufacturing operation or doing only horological machine work for the trade would have used many of my skills in a way that would have avoided this entire issue. Congratulations on getting your business into such a good position so quickly, I know it's a lot of work. Often fun, occasionally scary :-)

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks for sharing that story! Fantastic advice...clocks hold a odd place in my brain. Would love to get deeper into that world sadly there are only so many hours in a day!

[@weldmachine]

What does working for yourself do ?? Usually it doesn't give you more freedom as some people might imagine ?? But, it does give you a certain quality of Life. You have the power to make decision about how you want your Life to be, instead of being controlled by someone else. Of course your customers still control you. But, it's a control that you have control over. The decision for me to start my own shop wasn't necessarily for more money. It was about feeling motivated about doing something for myself 👍👍

[@DueyMiller-rk9dr]

Here's a tip. Put cardboard around your machine that generates chips flying all over the place. Now you don't have to clean up the floor the walls and everything else. You just got where the cardboard is to vacuum up. Sure it looks like hell but you don't have a little chips flying over onto your other machines if they're close together.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

That would be good but I access that machine often enough (short'ish cycles) that its more of a bother than the mess. Final solution is to actually finish its proper enclosure with flood coolant...and actual doors!

[@DueyMiller-rk9dr]

@@CurtVanFilipowski Floor, what floor? My machine in my bedroom along will the 3D printers and a vacuum former. Any tool I have the producers heat stays in the bedroom for the whole winter:)

[@JMG_Manu]

Dude, top notch video. It felt more like I was listening to a friend talk shop than being taught or shown something. I’m in a very relatable situation, so maybe I’m biased, but I’ll definitely be following your shop journey 👉👉

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks so much man, these little videos remind me why I liked KZbin a decade ago...do it for the fun, not for the clicks (with that said, a fairly click bait'y title lol). Thats awesome man, best of luck in your world as well!

[@HuskyMachining]

hey buddy, our shops thoughts are aligned. It just me and my 3 machines in my garage. I want to upgrade my machines to better ones one day but never want to hire any employees. And me quiting my day job 4 years ago to be a job shop was one of the best decision of my life

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Dude, that's awesome! Working for yourself is crazy rewarding (even if difficult)! Most people spend majority of their life working so you might as well enjoy doing it, I'm glad you found success! It seems like having the ability to make something well in this day and age can become fairly lucrative...almost regardless of what that 'thing' is!

[@HuskyMachining]

@@CurtVanFilipowski It is nice working for yourself, even when I have to work extra hours sometimes. It's my dream to have a product line (like your badass pens) as it would be super cool to work on perfecting a few parts but until a good idea comes my way, I'll keep making 1 off parts for Xometry

[@PiefacePete46]

My father shared your thinking. Shortly after WW2 he started working from our basement, carrying out precision engineering contracts. The biggest one was making heavyweight clockwork motors. New Zealand had a Fire Brigade call system that had a glass-fronted, red cylindrical box at major street corners. To alert the Brigade, you broke the glass and pushed the big brass knob; this allowed the clockwork motor to run through one cycle. Each cycle activated a pair of contact arms in a unique pattern... at the Fire Station this created a burnt pattern on a paper tape, from which they could identify the location. I earned my pocket money bending fulcrum springs and copper wires for the connector blocks. I have just finished a "spruce-up" of his Myford Super 7 lathe, which he used to make jigs etc for the big lathes. Funny really... I don't feel that old! 🥴 (BTW, although he never regretted this decision, he later said that he wished he had been making his own products. He did a trial run of condiment fork and spoon sets, but the attempts at marketing were heartbreaking! Long live the Internet.

[@esarworks4963]

You can always lease equipment, there are resources available for Small Businesses. The only issue is production machines don't fit in small garage spaces. You will need 220 or 480 power. I set up shop for a Satellite Manufacturer, we bought a SMEC (Samsung) lathe and mill plus tooling for a reasonable sum.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Leasing is an option...but your second point is the main sticking. Hard to get decent production equipment with low enough power rating (generating 3 phase isn't the issue but running 15+HP machines off my current supply is). I had no qualms of rewiring the Hardinge down from 600V to 220V but not really an option with new $$$ machines.

[@phillipP8848]

A great philosophy. Well done and best wishes for the future.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Many thanks!

[@RSPFactory]

Check out Miyano, they should be right up your alley. A CHNC was my first CNC lathe, and it made a lot of money (it earned more than it cost on several single days, like that day more work went through it than I paid). But the Miyano is light years better, just no comparison. Plan to spend about $50k and you can get a nice used machine.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Totally, this CHNC has paid for itself multiple times over, even if I count all my time in getting it running! Oddly enough I had 1 Miyano come across my desk but the shipping was far too insane (if it had a 3rd axis or sub it would have been a non issue, but was only 2 axis...price was right and size was perfect)!

[@RSPFactory]

@@CurtVanFilipowski A C axis and sub spindle would drop those complete as long as you had enough tool positions. I know the mill isn't your bottle neck, but a BT30 Drill/Tap machine will be light years better than that Grizzly.

[@joshwalker5605]

Thanks for all this! Very surprised but happy for you that there’s this much money in making boutique pens!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks for following along, I'm happy this niche world also has a high amount of interest!

[@robertogrady1321]

Good to see that you are busy and sold out. Have you space for more machines or would you have to replace some of your current ones?

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thankfully I still have lots of room for more machines (half the garage is still empty and the CNC router and drill press could also go as they don't get used for production). I suppose the word lots is relative in my case lol.

[@scottwatrous]

Cool video. Full time job can mean a lot of things: 40k or 140k might both be full time positions in the same field and same industry just depending on experience, exact role, and education. Nevertheless the basic premise holds true.

[@Lwimmermastermetalart]

Pretty amazing your doing that well making pens. I’d love to see one. Years back I created my own line of performance air intakes for Harleys. Did awesome until I started getting knocked off by the Chinese. No new equipment or lean manufacturing can over come that. Sadly sales have dropped not increased. Even with state of the art equipment. Can’t compete with ppl making pennies an hr. Good video and I wish you continued success

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Many thanks for the kind words, I think part of the 'success' is due to the story. I always say folks are buying my story more than the pen...but if the pen is garbage the story doesn't matter! Also seems to be a market where most people want to purchase from the creators. Plenty of amazing pens made off-shore at 1/10th my price, and honestly probably well machined at that! I'm honestly surprised you found less success with your endeavor but I know very little about the bike crowd.

[@Lwimmermastermetalart]

@@CurtVanFilipowski well to be honest the knock offs were made well. In fact on some of the pieces the only way I could even tell was the machining marks were different. One of the big things was chrome. China has no EPA so their chrome is CHEAP compared to what I had to pay. Bikers love chrome. There were ones who stood by made in USA though . Our warranty , fitment, quality was unsurpassed. However that all cost money to provide.

[@PiefacePete46]

Remember, you heard it here folks... because you are not likely to hear it anywhere else! Most people are more secretive with this sort of information than what they get up to with the lights out! Interesting stuff thanks Curt... I am enjoying our little morning chats! (Yes, I do answer you, even if you can't hear me.) 👍 😄

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks so much! I see no real reason to hide it (I've kept detailed specifics out obviously)...gives the story a bit more reality I think. Thanks for following along and answering ;).

[@TabletopMachineShop]

That was great Curt!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Many thanks man! Glad to see you posting again as well!

[@technobabble_]

The NEBO Columbo 150 inspection light is my every day flashlight. I use it 30+ times a day at work every day. If you made something like that I'm sure it'd sell well. You said you had some electrical engineering experience if i'm not mistaken. Should be pretty easy to get the light modes. I'd recommend leaving out the strobe, gods it sucks.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Almost exactly what I'm going after (130-200 lumens, high CRI and AAA sized...probably single with enough heatsinking to run AAA lithiums for more output). I'm with you, my light gets 50x the use my knife or pen get! Moonlight mode, and full power are about the only modes I find useful. Yes, you are correct...I did go to school for electronics so nice to have a need for that $kill$et now lol.

[@trevoradams8675]

Its an interesting point you get to as things start rolling along do you grow your business further or keep it lean and mean. I ask myself this question do I want to own a business or own my job. Great vid thanks for it!

[@WheelerGolfCo]

I've been sitting on this Page and the ideas behind it for awhile and just Failing to launch. I had been waiting for the new year with the belief that I would start on it then, I'll take your advice and just start now, thank you. You may not know but I've watched you for awhile and really like the way you created a space for yourself.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Many thanks man and best of luck with the endeavor! I'm guilty of doing the exact same thing, pretty sure we all are to some degree.

[@tedthemachinist]

Dmg? For the new machine Lol I appreciate the motivation! I would never be where I’m at today. If I didn’t just start. I find I have to many irons in the fire. And I start things and get pulled into different things. Current issue of mine.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Actually had a line on an old Mori but shipping was a killer. Fan of DMG.

[@somanyhobbies]

Love this talk! I hope someday I can be in a similar situation as you with my watches, until then I'll keep plugging away!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks man, that's the key! Effort tends to lead to 'luck' oddly enough!

[@MG-sg2ci]

This might be controversial but I was in a similar situation. I decided not to invest in equipment and found an amazing machine shop overseas. They do amazing work and are easy to work with. I still make over 100% profit on my goods and don't have to worry if the jobs dry up. For any of the naysayers, something being made overseas doesn't mean poor quality, those days are over.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

A valid option...but that's literally the part of this business I enjoy. Many areas make fantastic products but the optics of the situation will never be the same as goods made closer to home (I'm willing to bet that holds true for many years to come, if not becoming more sought after). I'm sure I'd find profit with your method but it would lack fulfillment, for me anyways. No disrespect meant, hopefully that comes across clear :).

[@rhokdatroll]

cool video, thanks for the pep talk!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks, glad it inspired a bit!

[@piccilos]

Hurco has some nice machines that can fit under a garage door. The VMone. Once you get a mill with an ATC and something like a Pierson pallet system your time in front of it is measured in minutes. Freeing you up to do other stuff

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

I really really like Hurco's interface, one brand that seems to see the way the industry is going. Not too familiar with their lathes, machine would likely be that as 90% of my stuff is round lol.

[@Szcza04]

@@CurtVanFilipowskithey have mill turns I’m sure

[@technobabble_]

Have you ever considered a fountain pen? Fountain pen people are absolute ravenous. No one makes their own nibs so you'd buy them from a third party, possibly the feed as well and then go from there. Threading the cap and aligning it and making it 'post' may be a fun challenge. The TWISBI classic might be a good reference to start with. It uses 2 orings on the back to make the cap fit with less precise tolerances. You'd only have to worry about the cap threading on with a design like that. You also don't need all the chrome rings like they have, just a simple pen. The Pilot Metropolitan is another good example of a simple pen except it's tapered.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Nobody makes their own nibs EXCEPT Schon Dsgn who I mention any chance I get (huge fan of his work). Would love to get into fountain pens, oddly enough I made 1 a few years back around the Metropolitan feed and nib. Eventually I'll get into that world but will likely be a long long while, too many irons never enough time!

[@technobabble_]

@@CurtVanFilipowski Looks like he uses Jowo nibs, but that Ultem in all black is EXACTLY what i had in mind for you to try to make. Not quite as rounded as the Metro.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

...you sure? I was fairly certain he was machining the nibs from Ti (atleast on one variant of his pens). I could very well be wrong tho!

[@spikeypineapple552]

In 18 months time you're going to buy a doosan 2100SY, and you're going to wish you'd bought it right now. Not tomorrow, now. Getting 3 phase is going to be super painful, but you do it once and you're done. The major issue I see for you is space though. For deep drilling, have you considered just putting a rotary union in the middle of your toolchange table, and running an auxilary pump?

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Oddly enough one of the machines I've considered. 3 Phase isn't too much of an issue (phase perfects are wonderful) but the residential amps are a bit of a limiting factor (probably only 10-15HP possible without going up to 200A service)...your also probably not wrong. I briefly thought about using a pressure washer pump for a system like you mentioned...might nuke the seals with time (oil and all) but cheap enough to try. Alternative is to go with an actual high pressure oil pump designed for this, which while spendy is still cheaper than a new machine! Thanks for the comment!

[@spikeypineapple552]

@CurtVanFilipowski 1) couldn't recommend the puma enough 2) just do it with the coolant thing. It just works

[@bloodb0ne]

what kind of lathe are you thinking of getting ? a small Tornos ? anyways your overall setup is pretty solid

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

If I can get a swiss in my price range, absolutely! Other than that a live tool Y-axis...possible sub spindle if I can get one in my power range.

[@philtickerchannel]

I love your videos!!! And please!!!!! Consider to make a fountain pen, it would be fantastic!!!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Many thanks! I've made one WAY back in the day and would love to make it into an actual product. Check out Schon Dsgn (google), he's another guy making some absolutely fantastic fountain pens. I point everyone to him anytime I get a chance for no other reason than his work is top tier!

[@zyeborm]

Hey mate, 2 thoughts, perhaps a video on the breakdown on time of operations to make a pen? X hours to y, z hours to a? Might crowd source some more suggestions like that gun drilling suggestion, must have been a clever guy😂 If you're anything like me polishing is a big one and there's some ways to automate (most of) that that are pretty easy. Part 2. Torches, my day job is electronics design these days. I've made some military grade bright things in compact housings as part of that 😂 Anyway if you'd like to collaborate or just chat let me know, I don't have the patience for mass production but prototype something cool? That's my jam 😂.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Lol, clever indeed! That would be a good idea, I'll try to share a bit more of that going forward! Thankfully there are some automated solutions for what I'm doing in regard to finishing (honing machines and such) but my real question is can I omit some of that stuff entirely with better machined finishes.... On lights, that's awesome and thanks! I actually went to school for Electronic Eng so lights are a good excuse to dust off the old knowledge paid for in my brain! None the less it would be fun to chat once I better nail down the direction I'm going, thanks once again. Loads of great drivers available for purchase these days, highly doubt I'd roll my own but who knows. Thermal and optics will probably be the area to toy with.

[@zyeborm]

@@CurtVanFilipowski well that would have been teaching grandma to suck eggs lol. I wanted to make something with multiple LEDs, something like an sst-40 or more for photoncannon. Maximum efficiency low power LED. UV of various flavours,ir, a frikkin laser beam too lol. I have wanted to do something using heat pipes, sapphire to metal hermetic seals. Turn it up to 11. I think we share a passion for doing the best we can on a product lol. I was thinking if polishing the outside is a thing that takes time you could mount a spindle as a tool in your lathe with a (small) polishing mop on it. I've seen it work on other jobs before, don't need too fancy a spindle either.

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

I really want to source sapphire for the lens, stupidly scratch proof in watches and would be awesome in a light (probably moot in actual function tho, fun to have as a talking point). Outside polishing isn't bad, inside is a bit of a suck. I do have diamond hones that can technically go in the lathe but with the lack of proper oil filtering having diamond particles floating around high precisions surfaces freaks me out way too much.

[@MR.KNOWITALL1982]

Subbed! If you ever want to sell your lathe.. Well done!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks! I think that iron lung will keep its place for a long long while lol.

[@modernfoundry]

Loving the daily videos Curt! This one in particular was super interesting. I've managed to 'start' but I think the hardest bit seems to be the first 100 sales or so and building momentum. So far I've just toyed with Etsy but how did you go about marketing / sales in the early days? Particularly I suppose as this is generally the least 'fun' bit, but arguably the most important bit (at least if the aim is to make a living / side-hustle). Did you always want to make pens specifically? And took a 'build it and they will come' approach which would seem to be working quite well for you if so, or did you do research into what you could actually create a demand for given the rough size and form factor you could manufacture in your garage? Thanks!

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Thanks and fantastic question! I would 100% agree, I started on Etsy and the first sales are always the hardest! I think I was a bit lucky as I had a decent audience between KZbin and Instructables...I've never really done any 'marketing' other than sharing on here so I attribute that mostly to right place, right time. Never intended on pens, built one because I like pens and wanted one (which in hindsight was the reason it worked, hard to fake genuine interest). Then had a few local / youtube folks request and decided to sell a few on Etsy (at a modest price and trying to build far better than what was on there). Slowly started snowballing from there. Hopefully you are lucky enough to know what you love and have the ability to make it (maybe your big into can openers or something)...I think that's part of the secret, people need to see you are putting everything you have into it.

[@garthlee8166]

Curt is it possible to mail you? Brilliant share many thanks

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

Sure, just shoot me an email :).

[@catt87]

"How Much Money I Make Building Pens in my Garage Shop"..... so, how much DO you actually make ? becasue unless I missed something, I didn;t really hear any numbers.

[@teipplestar5586]

You made it difficult not to subscribe. 😂🙂🤜

[@hankhill962]

How much was your initial setup cost?

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

I purchased lots of this bit by bit, and most of the cost is in the actual retrofitting work (for instance the lathe was only $3k but I put about $2k more into it as well as a month of time). All told probably somewhere in the $10k range hard costs.

[@hankhill962]

Not surprised. I had a business years ago, I don't think people realize how much it cost to start and run a business before you ever turn a profit

[@joell439]

👍👍😎👍👍…… well said (of course 😄)

[@mattiasarvidsson8522]

reported to IRS

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

😂... Canadian 👍

[@Bromo_Sexual]

It sounds like your business is a front for a money laundering scheme. 😂

[@CurtVanFilipowski]

😂...would probably be easier than this!