VLOG#8: Tuttle Box Confusion on foils

[@windfoil1000]

It would be amazing if manufacturers got together and agreed on one box. Everyone would benefit. Good topic, Gunnar.

[@royfigueroa9210]

It’s September 2023. Has there been any standardization in the Tuttle box manufacturing since this video was published? Any updates? Changes? Gunnar, great video! As always, great content and presentation!

[@tomasgulas]

HI Gunar, i have the same Mike's lab race board you rode for winging in one of your videos. i'm trying to use the same board for learning and have plate mount on my foil mast. Does Mike's board have "Deep" tuttle and if so, will the Chinook adapter not work? the adapter that is sold is Chinook Power plate foil box adapter. Or do you know of another adapter to mount foil to Mike's board?

[@yigalglebrozval6533]

Well done! Good job explaining this.

[@atthewalk]

Great video. I know that a Tuttle isn't as strong as a Deed Tuttle but is it doable for foiling? I saw an adapter head and plate to Tuttle by a major manufacturer either NP or Slingshot. I believe the plate butting up to the board relieves some torsional stress. What manufacturers produce Tuttle head foils?

[@GunnarBiniasch]

In theory it should be fine. It might be more of an issue of how the Box is laminated into the board. If it is not laminated to the deck too, then it might fail regardless.

[@gregauckland1644]

Yeah man. I totally understand your frustration. I just bought a couple of "Deep Tuttle" carbon boxes off AliExpress which just arrived and they have a parallel inner base. Not DEEP Tuttle at all as they were described as! These are Foil Box, which is something different again. My Normal tuttle fins mostly fit OK, but the deep tuttle fins not really fit, unless I grind 10mm off the top of them. Damn .....

[@R00063Rt]

On the drawing you're holding in the camera, on the lower image, there are two angles with 80° markings, that are obviously more than 90°. Thanks for the video.

[@antc5010]

What? The paper drawing of the deep tuttle with 80 degrees shown on the bottom edge (fin edge) of the deep tuttle head is exactly as per the intro diagram which is correct. The obtuse angles at the top you must be referring to are not dimensioned, but I know one is 93.4 degrees.

[@philippelatulipe13]

Still not right! There are some mistakes in this explanation. For example, the first sketch isn't true, the angles are actually not respected. Second, the sketch in 1.42 shows 2 boxes that aren't superposables so people can think that the two boxes are different. The deep tuttle is only a tuttle 18mm deeper. The chinook box isn't a standard for the male part, this female part has been made only to fit a tuttle inside, because tuttle and deep tuttle are design to not touch the end of the box. As a result, there are not 3 standards, but 2 : tuttle and deep tuttle (which is a tuttle 18mm deeper). Phil From Horue

[@ademaliylmaz6162]

deep tuttle picture most popular dimensions on internet, but horue has a pdf you can find in google, dimensions are different, idk whic one is right

[@wallyllaw]

Anyone knows if JP Australia "Foil-Tuttlebox" really deep tuttle box or not? Particularly, will Fanatic H9 foil listed as Deep Tuttle box fit into JP Australia Super Ride 2019 having so-called "Foil-Tuttlebox" they *hint* on their site should be "DT" (Deep Tuttle?), or at least the same "DT" as in Neil Pryde foils.

[@vectorphaseshifter]

Thumbs up for Gunnar!

[@GunnarBiniasch]

I wish this was true, but the problem is the different brands are saying they have tuttle when they use the chinnok tuttle, or say deep tuttle wheb they are using a chinook tuttle.

[@pquispea]

My friend, deep tuttle head is ok for gofoil tuttle box?

[@GunnarBiniasch]

Hi Pablo. The Deep Tuttle will fit, but the scree holes will not line up properly. The Go Foil Tuttle has a slightly different spacing than the normal deep Tuttle spacing.

[@pquispea]

@@GunnarBiniasch thank you very much for your answer. Right, screw holes are not aligned because slop at top on deep tuttle. What do you mean with different spacing? Screw holes spacing?

[@bayradian]

Hey Gunnar, nice tutorial as per usual. Quick question.......can I add a foil or appropriate tuttle to my 2014 Naish 9'5" Mana SUP ? If yes, is it a suitable board? I'm in the Mediterranean, rarely waves but hoping to ride SuperYacht / ferry wakes & the occasional wind swell. Thanks in advance. D

[@GunnarBiniasch]

Yes. You can. Have a look here on how to do it: gofoil.com/tuttle-box-info/

[@wallyllaw]

I did measure two of my Deep Tuttle slalom fins and found out that those measurements you had for Deep Tuttle, namely 67.48 and 51.768 (mm, I suppose) are slightly different than what I found. I got 73/74mm (5.5-6.5mm difference) and 55mm (>3mm difference) respectively. AHD board, I guess AHD fins as well. Also on those particular fins I suppose you could (with your own risk of course) easily cut more than 10mm off from the end of the male part given that your fin box was a bit too shallow. Not true for those fins/masts you have, as those holes for screw threads are so close to the top. Maybe I then order a "deep tuttle" foil on my own risk at very cheap price as it seems that if it somehow doesn't fit JP Australia "foil-tuttlebox (DT)", at very least it should fit to my old slalom board (which might broke in the process as it's made before they invented foiling so the box is not reinforced for that).

[@JozefK78]

Thanks Gunnar! Very informative. You didn't mention one combination with this three types: Chinook tuttle into a normal tuttle box. Would it fit? I'm contemplating in buying a specific foil with a chinook tuttle into my board with a normal tuttle .

[@GunnarBiniasch]

Depends what you mean. I consider the Chinook the Normal Tuttle. With normal, do you mean the "Cobra" tuttle which is .5mm less thick? What board is it?

[@JozefK78]

@@GunnarBiniasch Hi Gunnar. My board is a custom made board equipped with a standard tuttle box. I wanted to buy a foil with a connector that fits it (www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-foil-allvator-tuttle-connection-2/) but it is out of stock so I was thinking that maybe I can replace it with the chinook tuttle (www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-foil-allvator-tuttle-chinook-connection-2/).

[@GunnarBiniasch]

@@JozefK78 Again. I am not sure what you mean with Standard Tuttle? Best would be to measure your Box width and length and depth. Then you will know.

[@JozefK78]

@@GunnarBiniasch I did the measurements in the board's adaptor but actually it didnt help: outer length: ~156 mm inner length: ? (couldn't fit my tape measure into the hole) longer "wall" length: 55 mm shorter "wall" length: 45 mm width:~15 mm Doesnt seem to fit any of the 3 tuttle dimensions.

[@GunnarBiniasch]

@@JozefK78 The standard width is 15,9mm (sidewall to sidewall) for the Chinook or Standard tuttle box heads. Your measurements you have are longer than the standard tuttle but shorter than the deep tuttle. So a Standard tuttle will fit, but not a deep tuttle. Check your width. If its less than 15.9mm then it's a Cobra Tuttle box and will be too thin to fit the Chinook (standard tuttle)

[@legeantdavid1937]

Thanks for the video, as you mentioned it’s a bit of confusion

[@pquispea]

Why tuttle is slopped at top? what is the advantage?

[@GunnarBiniasch]

This is from when Windsurfing boards had quite a lot of taper in the tail.

[@marticon9286]

Good advice and saved me from possible expensive mistakes!

[@love51511]

Great video. Thank you. This information is very helpful for someone such as myself that is new to the idea of foilsurfing. Can you suggest a vendor to purchase the foil and or just the mast and the Tuttle box?

[@GunnarBiniasch]

Where do you live? I am sure there is a respectable Kite or surf shop that deals with foils near you.

[@love51511]

I'm in central Florida. I would prefer to purchase online, if possible. Interested in a brand that is not too expensive and reputable. I discovered this mounting system - foilmount.com/products/foilmount-standard Not sure if it would actually stay adhered to the board in the surf?

[@GunnarBiniasch]

Check out Moses or Zeeko. Both are very reputable brands that also really push the evolution of foiling. Regarding the Foilmount system: I have not tested it, so I cannot say much about it. Just consider this. Most shapers will install two US Box rails in whatever board you like for pretty much the same price as this system. There you can be 100% sure that it will hold.

[@tonyquinlan7341]

I have sword board trying to fit different foil its called pro box,so will deep Tuttle box fit, THANKS'

[@GunnarBiniasch]

No. The probox (KF box) is very different to a Tuttle box.

[@tonyquinlan7341]

@@GunnarBiniasch No joy i could modify to fit ?

[@GunnarBiniasch]

@@tonyquinlan7341 not a chance. It is totally different dimensions

[@chuckmason7711]

@@GunnarBiniasch Hi mate, Where can I find a KF Box to install in a board? Also Called Pro Box? Is it the same thing? Would be used for a Cabrina AV 8 Foil head (Described as Pro Box) to install into a board that has currently Tuttle Box? Possible?

[@GunnarBiniasch]

@@chuckmason7711 Hi Chuck. That is a good question. The problem is that it is a non standard system, and that there are variations. Some with 2 screws, 1 screw, 3 screws. Different depths too. The few brands that still use it, make their own boxes. I would check with Alpine if they still have adapters.

[@Tom_Oz]

Thank you: very instructive 👍

[@eriksoderholm5889]

I have a groove raceboard with standard Deep Tuttle, now looking at a z-foil but most of them have tuttle connection. Is there any spacers to put in the top of the deep tuttle to make it tuttle? To use a tuttle to plate adapter make the mast 120cm wich is a bit much.

[@GunnarBiniasch]

You should not need a spacer to put a tuttle into a deep tuttle. It should fit perfectly at the hull without sinking into the board.

[@eriksoderholm5889]

Back at it. I used a zfoil 2019 with the board, worked great. But the foil broke, then now i got a bullet3 foil. This foil fits the board at first. Then while riding it can suddenly twist a little bit and find a new place in the box, now with the mast tilted a bit forward. When i go to the beach i find the front screw with its head a bit above the footpad. I guess i should ad something around the tuttle head to make it fit better, or tighten the screws way harder(probably a bad thing to do) or just get a better board with snug fit. But i like the board, its a slightly bigger area for my feet to move on. Early version of groove racebaords…

[@eriksoderholm5889]

Update. The nut inside the head of the mast was damadged so the screw could not hold the mast inside the tuttle box. Now with new nut it is all good.

[@JacobBohmeDK]

Tuttle box seems to be standard for racefoils now. However, they are being cut down to many different heights and top slopes. Not just 3. Your rant is justified :-) I guess they all fit into a deep tuttle box.

[@KevinOpar]

Amen!

[@CroLarus]

oh...no...