TARIFFS and TAXES: The REAL Cause of the CIVIL WAR?! - Atun-Shei Reaction

[@Dkc3]

that first one about the South paying 80% of the nation's taxes made me literally spit my dinner out because I started laughing

[@comusrules1244]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪

[@Deadener]

I thought he was cherry picking that one, but if you step into some of the more sludge-filled areas of the internet, dedicated to the Lost Cause, you'll find that this is actually quite a common argument. And it's always 80%, so they're getting it from a single source. I can't fathom where, though.

[@NoBody-lj5xh]

@@Deadener Their grandpappy, after he'd consumed an entire pack of naddy lite one Lee-Jackson Day.

[@1krani]

​@@NoBody-lj5xh That or Thomas DiLorenzo, who seems to have made it his mission to convince people Lincoln was a secret Bond villain who engineered the war so he could construct a massive federal tax and railroad monopoly.

[@freneticness6927]

To be fair probably 80% of the usas exports were southern cotton.

[@sachinaraszkiewicz785]

Your reaction to Atun-Shei's talk about the Northern vs Southern generals is still on my list of favorite YT edu materials. Setting aside your obvious differences, you both share true passion for the subject being discussed. Watching you interact with his content is - to me - pure joy of learning.

[@titanschannel585]

I love these videos, what saddens me is that he beber finished to watch one of Shein's videos because it went off topic, not reaching the part were it came back to the topic

[@averybadnaem4982]

That video is shit, and displays how this guy cares way too much about military history

[@occam7382]

@@averybadnaem4982, that's a mischaracterization. VTH absolutely is not just a military history guy. His grievance in the Generals video was that the main topic was on whether or not Southern generals were better military commanders than their Northern counterparts (Spoiler: They weren't). So when the video shifted towards the moral character of Civil War generals thanks to Johnny Reb, VTH justifiably docked some points 'cause he thought the video was getting off topic.

[@HateTheGameTX]

Honestly, I’ve retained more of Atun-Shei’s videos through VTH’s reactions.

[@yashjoseph3544]

@@occam7382 I don't understand what his deal was with videos "going off-topic". Has he ever argued with a person that parrots Lost Cause propaganda? They ALWAYS shift the conversation when they are losing, so Atun-Shei had to shift as well. I think VTH was getting mad for no reason. A LOT of people in the comments of the video pointed that out, and VTH didn't really give a good counter to their arguments in the pinned comment.

[@FinbarGallagher]

As a huge fan of Atun Shei Films who actually discovered your channel through your reactions to Checkmate Lincolnites, I'd like to formally apologise for any hate you might have received from other Atun-Shei fans. Your content is a breath of fresh air for reaction content and the fact you have such in-depth commentary makes watching your reactions just as engaging as watching the original videos you're reacting to.

[@marseldagistani1989]

I will say that I am something of an Atu -Shei fan and have seen all his Checkmate Lincolnites. And I wish that the two could do a collaboration with each other

[@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture]

@@night6724 actually, the parties had different takes back then. You might actually want to do some research.

[@Strawberry-12.]

@@night6724 what would you know about the civil war you died over 100years before it happened. Be gone ghost

[@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture]

@@night6724 and the Democrats back then were against high tariffs. You really need to read and learn to comprehend as well. Also, which party’s president in the last 5 years increased tariffs? Hint, his family’s original surname was Drumpf and he was the 45th POTUS. Further hint, that party is Republican.

[@ibuprofriends]

@@night6724 democrats and republicans switched platforms and ideologies in the early 1900s. seriously, do some research you're embarrassing yourself lmao.

[@undersizemaster2853]

I actually love this channel so much, as someone who absolutely love history it is amazing to see someone react to videos while having such a great personality. This is easily one of my favourite KZbin channels on here

[@stacyhamilton2619]

Actually actually or literally actually love?

[@jonasmejerpedersen4847]

also, unlike other "reaction channels" he actually has something to say

[@TheHistoryUnderground]

Any time somebody comes at me about how the Civil War wasn't about slavery, I ask them to read Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone Speech" and The Declarations of Causes of Seceding States (especially Mississippi) and then get back to me.

[@paladinshark2448]

I actually did just read the cornerstone. He spent like half of the speech ranting about economics and government overreach. A lot more than I thought actually. He includes slavery as a cause (a damn important one) but it is a huge oversimplification to think he wasn’t also very mad about a lot of other things. Hence why I think it’s stupid to say “it’s about slavery” “it’s about states rights.” Was an absurdly complex nest of issues, on both sides.

[@yotubeification]

@@paladinshark2448 you are right in someways. But wrong in others. Afterall the southern states were not content to only have slavery in their states but used the power of the federal goverment to prevent "free air states". In essence while the Northern states were allowed to ban the economic system of slavery, they were not allowed to truely abolish the practice within their borders. For example the fugitive slave act gave slave states jurisdiction over free states when it came to escaped slaves. A northern state could not declare an escaped slave a citizen of their state once they crossed the border. This even got so bad that free blacks who were not escaped slaves, and were citizens of certain northern states, were kidnapped by southerners and put into slavery. That is the primary "states right" they wanted to keep. Theit right to force their will on the rest of the country.

[@morganmcallister2001]

@@yotubeification That's not entirely true either. Louisiana and Virginia were both perfectly comfortable with the concept of "free air states". The dissent in Scott v. Sandford even quotes Louisiana law freeing a slave because once they had been free they cannot be enslaved again. Meanwhile states like Oregon and New York allowed a slave owner to legally bring their slave with them into these free states and take them back out while keeping them enslaved for the duration of their stay. The fugitive slave act isn't about "free air" per se but rather about whether these escapees could change their legal status while engaging in illegal act (from a Slave state perspective).

[@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture]

@@night6724 you just can’t accept the truth. The “State’s Rights” issue was about “personal property”, which were slaves. The primary cause of the American Civil War was slavery and the blatant racism that was its foundation.

[@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture]

@@night6724 Jefferson Davis was biased and rewriting history. Try as you might, you can not change what had been the actual written causes stated in 1860 and 1861.

[@michiganmajin7284]

Chris: "There [Jack Daniels] apple whiskey is fantastic, by the way." Me: "Ahhh, I see you're a man of culture as well."

[@thesaurus9226]

Me not drink none of that Devil Juice!! *sparks spliff*

[@HickAtHeart]

"ummmmmm, *Their☝🤓"

[@clydefrog203]

​@thesaurus9226 and self respecting amateur historian doesn't do drugs for children. They do distinguished drugs like cocaine

[@hockeyinalabama]

One of my history teachers not only taught the tariffs and taxes idea, but he also stated that the South was bitter over having to foot so much of the bill for the revolution as the debts from that war were split equally. Once again, anything and everything that can be reached for.

[@aimeew6880]

As a history teacher myself, that is so frustrating. Ugh.

[@chaosXP3RT]

You're teacher can't really be called a teacher. That's just teaching propaganda, not history

[@kelss.5098]

@@night6724 it’s ok. I know you have no proof of your bullshit opinions.

[@jackfarnum97]

@@night6724 ?

[@staceywalters]

I was taught that to that the Civil War was fought over tariffs not over slavery but of course I think it's because our chief justice justice died for the Confederacy and everyone where I'm from was embarrassed to admit it was over slavery so they wanted to say tariffs

[@hyunsungjung4941]

0:38 I have learned the hard way that there are few channels who have as rabid a fanbase as Atun-Shei... Me after watching the Razorfist video: Oh you sweet summer child...

[@PopeSixtusVI]

Wait til he gets to Lazerpig.

[@Out_Beyond_The_Heliopause]

There's a statue of Abraham Lincoln in Manchester. Famously in the UK the workers in Manchester refused to process southern cotton even though it would deliver a serious blow to their own economic wellbeing. If memory serves me correctly Lincoln thanked them for their support in a speech.

[@Andrew-ep4kw]

3:50 the whole skit of using the sword to cut the wrapping around the whiskey bottle's cork is brilliant, at least to anyone who's had to open one of those bottles.

[@anishpatel898]

The Civil War is what got me into history as a child. Being from the South (southern part of a certain border state), it is refreshing to hear these opinions, as this argument is sadly very common, as the very good people around me don't like to think about how some of their ancestors fought on the "bad" side (even though they mainly fought to protect their local community). I find it wild that in my home county there is a Confederate monument at the courthouse, while the memorial for the fallen soldiers of the past 6 major wars is off somewhere else. As a sidenote, I want to say you remind me of the teachers who inspired me to really delve into my passion (even though it is not my career) and also wondered if you had interest in more Roman, Ancient, or Asian History videos.

[@Mercure250]

I think the saddest thing about this not-wanting-your-ancestors-to-be-on-the-bad-side is the fact that there's this little country called Germany that is dealing with its past in a much more mature way, for the most part... Some Southerners could learn a thing or two from Germans, I think.

[@anishpatel898]

​@@Mercure250 I agree completely. The fact that certain flags are publicly banned there, but not in our country who loves to flex their victory in WW2 is also astounding

[@37thgungrunts]

My mom is from the deep parts of the South. I made the mistake as a youngster of listening to her information about Northern Aggression and state's rights

[@occam7382]

@@Mercure250, I mean, they mainly did that initially because the countries occupying them forced them to, but yeah, I still agree with what you're saying.

[@corey2232]

@@Mercure250 They were forcibly made to be conquering foreign powers, with very public trials in an age of growing public awareness & media coverage. In the 1860's-1880's era, it was far easier to keep information & stories local or regional, create safe spaces to spread misinformation, keep the public away from the narrative you don't want them to hear. No radio or television, no foreign power sending all the perpetrators to trial & exposing their wrongdoings... The country was trying to reconcile & forgive those who took up arms against them as quickly as possible (though this was hotly contested & controversial at the time too) so that focus could be spent on reconstruction. It's just a wildly a different set of circumstances & a different time that allowed such conditions to enable the southern myths. Even if Union troops could be compared to an occupying foreign force, they weren't. They were Americans, people who were neighbors & family members, friends & colleagues just several years earlier, former citizens of the same Union & not some distinctly foreign nation holding them to trial.

[@Gravelgratious]

Chris I'm so glad you are watching more of Andy's work. Yes he is brash and blunt in character but his heart is absolutely in same place yours. Please watch his video on the King Phillip War.

[@cfnsRD]

I love the username

[@professorwhat2704]

After your introduction (which I agree with, btw), I'd like to add the perspective of someone who was born and raised in the South and was raised with the mentality of "The South Was Right!" (referencing the book by the Kennedy Brothers), which will hopefully help people understand it better. This is going to be long, so apologies in advance. First, understand that from my experience, the vast majority of those who hold the position mean no harm. If you were born and raised in the south, there's a high likelihood that any ancestors you had that fought in the war fought for the Confederacy. There's also a very good chance that you had (at least some) ancestors who fought who never owned slaves. To this day, I still firmly believe that many who fought for the south did so to protect house and home, and let's be honest, if that's true about even a small number, you'd prefer to believe that your ancestor was fighting for a noble cause against an invading army rather than fighting to preserve slavery. It's therefore more comfortable to ignore the government level decision making process. What that leads to is a confirmation bias. You end up looking for evidence that "proves" your point. That evidence might be true, but it only tells part of the story. Anything to the contrary is viewed through a prism that sees it in the most favorable possible light to your view or, if that can't be done, the evidence is ignored or there's an attempt to sully it to make it look wrong. When family members are involved, it's an emotional issue. Emotions do a lot to influence our perceptions of things. As Chris has said so many times, we all have biases. Few things will stir those up as strongly as family will. So, understand that a lot of the mentality discussed in this video comes from that. That mentality gets passed down from generation to generation in a lot of cases. The result of that is that, as I said before, a lot of good people end up holding views that they don't completely understand. They truly believe that what they say and believe is right. I know that well, because I used to be there. I used to think the same things. Over time, I've learned better, and I'm thankful for that. I hope people will understand that most of the people who support the "southern cause" don't need to be dealt with through any sort of angry reaction. They honestly don't know better. Yes, the evidence is there, but they've been trained to view it in a certain way. It's really hard to overcome that. I suppose I might have made some people angry with what I've said here. If I have, I understand. I've been there, done that, sadly. But I do hope that I've helped someone to understand the thought process of those who still preach the "lost cause." The best way to handle it all is to support civility and truth.

[@easygzus9064]

Fair and very well said sir 🙃

[@individualismincarnate6467]

Bravo! It's the internet, so "people" (and I use the term loosely) are usually charactures of their own selves. I appreciate your stance. We all digest information the way we were taught, both from school and otherwise. This is just 1 more reason why Woodrow Wilson was indeed the worst President of the United States of America, and shall probably never lose the title.

[@jamesearly8518]

Well spoken!

[@scott91575]

"There's also a very good chance that you had (at least some) ancestors who fought who never owned slaves. To this day, I still firmly believe that many who fought for the south did so to protect house and home" I don't think many people deny this. Many wars have been fought where the reasons of the soldiers were way different than the reasons of the government. Yet at the end of the day, whether they knew it or not, they were fighting to support a government whose whole reason for being was to make sure slavery remained legal. The fact that the South has continued to come up with non stop nonsense reasons for secession is the issue most people have. It's perfectly fine to say "well my great great grandad wasn't fighting for slavery despite the fact the Confederacy was built on that ideal." If it was left there I don't think there would be many arguments to be had. Instead there is a whole movement of revisionist history in the South that has to be continually shot down. It's fine to say individual soldiers were not fighting for slavery (I think most would agree), but the movements in the South have tried to make the motives of the government into something they were not and that cannot be ignored.

[@professorwhat2704]

@@scott91575 Let's be clear. Nothing I said was an attempt to justify anything. I'm not saying they're right. They're not. But if you want to make headway with someone who grew up with that train of thought and believes it because of that, it's important to understand the roots. People understanding the background of their own ancestors leads them to want to believe something that's not true. That's also why I referenced the book I did. It influenced so much thought in people I grew up around.

[@johndoe6260]

Atun Shei's video opening was the funniest and most awkward thing I have seen all day, thanks for another amazing educational and entertaining video, VTH

[@gakster29]

Atun-Shei's one hour video "In Defense of Puritanism" was absolutely brilliant. One of my fav videos on YT. Idk if I recommend it for a reactions, but it was eye-opening.

[@comusrules1244]

The way he plays the characters in that video is brilliant too! So funny.

[@anitatereszczuk3967]

Videos full of information are great, but those that offer a healthy mixture of comedy and facts are probably my favourite :D I feel like it's essential to present history this way because people will listen to you. Also, if you are looking for interesting videos, I would highly recommend the animated history of Poland. A rather old one and packed with information, but I think it's worth it

[@chesterparish3794]

Agreed. thats why I think Oversimplified has done so well.

[@MomentsInTrading]

I’m working on a video on the Battle of Gettysburg- probably be done in about 2 weeks. Lots of jokes and humor in it. I have spent many many hours trying really hard to make it 100% factually accurate. I have literally put about 1000 hours total in it over many months! I’m really excited and hope people enjoy it. I felt compelled to mention it because your comment mentioned humor.

[@MomentsInTrading]

@@chesterparish3794 I love the humor in Oversimplified videos!

[@4urawrkr2]

Another great reaction and great commentary! And I dunno if this is "canon" to Atun-Shei's "lore", but I'm pretty sure the caricatures for the north and south are named Billy Yank and Johnny Reb respectively.

[@undertakernumberone1]

it is. They even call each other that at times.

[@kuramacon]

This guy has taught me more of the human nuance of the civil war than my school ever could. Helping me understand Lincoln the man and how he navigated the politics of the times against his own beliefs. He really was one of the best presidents

[@Silvercrypto-xk4zy]

absolutely love that series as well as your reactions to them. glad to see you bring it back. i believe it was a reaction to one of those videos that introduced me to your channel last year while in quarantine

[@richeybaumann1755]

I was really, really hoping you would get to this one as well as the Black Confederates one.

[@AmericanImperium1776]

Same. Black Confederates would be a really really interesting one.

[@undertakernumberone1]

agreed.

[@felixgutierrez993]

Let's go!!! I was waiting for this one!

[@CodyChepa88]

Facts

[@savagedarksider5934]

I was watching this interview from two actual Civil War Veterans in 1929.

[@nitrox1613]

I would love to see him react to it

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

You and Adam both have opened my eyes to what the US civil war was like. I say this as a Brit.

[@jeremiahcooper376]

3:25 Jazz tune in the background is “I’ve never been in love with you”… originally from guys and dolls, great standard!

[@cadam4272]

Congrats on reaching 300k! One of the best reaction channels there is that gets me more and more interested in history.

[@personanongrata4419]

Love both of your guys’ channels and think you both are doing extremely important work. Especially as bad history becomes more and more pervasive ever year. It’s a dangerous and, frankly, scary trend.

[@cfnsRD]

I am happy to see you come back to this, this series helped me in becoming interested in learning more

[@DeadSpatula]

I have been enjoying rewatching Checkmate lincolnites through your channel in the past few weeks, and I very much enjoyed your WTF over the initial 80% taxes comment, and when you resume, Atun-shei has a WTF moment over the comment. its priceless.

[@anderskorsback4104]

The VTH-Atun-Shei drinking game: Take a drink every time VTH pauses after one of Johnny Reb's comments, explains why he's wrong, unpauses, and then Billy Yank says pretty much the same thing VTH just said.

[@realtraderjoe]

I am continually surprised and entertained! What a stellar community you’ve cultivated here ! And to think I found this through Stellaris which brought me to HOI4, which put you in my recommended…

[@alibaba-255]

God I love this channel. I remember when I was binge watching reaction videos to ERB when I found you, and from then I I’ve been hooked. You are the reason I found new love for history and for that I am eternally grateful. Also….. next erb when?

[@markselby9352]

Yeah I’d love to see some more ERB content

[@mattgregorowicz7705]

Very informative reaction Chris! Thank you to both you and Atun-Shei for your love of history! After watching this, I wonder where some people get their arguments from regarding how the Civil War started. Although it could be argued that there were more causes to the war besides slavery, I would say to just look at the Ordinances of Secession of each of the Confederate States and even the Constitution of the Confederacy itself. While many Confederate soldiers probably did fight for a variety of reasons other than slavery, it seems pretty clear that the southern government's main concern was keeping slavery legal because of its vital role in their economy. I will have to do some further research as to how big of an issue taxes and tariffs were to the south at the time. Great video!

[@mattgregorowicz7705]

@@night6724 Whoa man, there's no need to say that. We're all here to learn. All I was stating was that the governments of the southern states at the time wanted to protect the institution of slavery. That's fact. It doesn't mean it was the only reason they seceded from the Union. I'm sure there were other reasons such as a state's right to self-determination and tariffs, but the main reason that I think most people can agree on is that the south wanted to preserve the institution that brought its economy the most profit.

[@InflatedOpinions]

Yes! Perfect way to start my free time after work.

[@zainmudassir2964]

Hi sir. Hope you cut him some slack since his content is aimed at lost causers and pointing out their absurdities. I'm brown man myself and I try to understand other side but it's very hard to not feel uncomfortable when Confederacy so *explicitly* defended right to enslave folks who look like me yet hide behind 'Its tradition'

[@Nebulasecura]

I think the problem lies partially with the fact that the politicians of the time were all for slavery as sighted by the secession statements of the states while not everyone in the confederate army as a specific individual unit was for slavery.

[@AmericanImperium1776]

Hey, I agree that Atun Shei should be cut a little slack, I do have a question, no offense, but Would you call average people who have a Confederate Battle Flag on their porch, “Racist”?

[@felixgutierrez993]

@@AmericanImperium1776 Not really but what most their talking points comes from said talking points in the video. So I wouldn't call the individual all racist...but the flag sure is!

[@AmericanImperium1776]

@@felixgutierrez993 Okay thanks, one more question: If I see someone on their porch, should I try to explain to them what he flag really means, or should I just say it’s not property, it’s none of my business?

[@felixgutierrez993]

@@AmericanImperium1776 Nah I wouldn't intervene in anyone elses ideals or way of life. If thats what they believe they're gonna believe it regardless. I would only tell them that if they came to me saying it doesn't stand for it, and I will already know what the will say back to me lol.

[@svenrio8521]

Actually now that I thought of it, a good video series for you to react to Chris, is Early Christian Scisms by Extra History. Given your background in ministry and the fact that Extra History is a great channel that knows how to tell a story, I figure it would make a great watch.

[@tintim85]

You know what would have really done wonders for protecting southern “industry” form protective tariffs? Not taking their ball and going home. To have a say in the game, you have to STAY in the game.

[@svenrio8521]

The movie Lincoln (2012) said it the best. "If you had kept faith with the democratic process as frustrating as that can be..." kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5iopIiefbNmn7M

[@kenabbott8585]

The Morill tariff passed the House in May of 1860, before the states had exercised their Constitutional right to secede. The Southern states voted against it 39-1, and it still passed by an almost two-to-one margin. Likewise, Lincoln didn't carry a single southern state, and he still became president. So much for "a say in the game."

[@skiddadleskidoodle4585]

​@@kenabbott8585so i assume you believe it was about states rights and northern aggression aswell?

[@kenabbott8585]

@@skiddadleskidoodle4585 Yes, I also believe basic facts.

[@skiddadleskidoodle4585]

@@kenabbott8585 so it wasnt about slavery or confederates attacking federal forts and armories, just em damn yellowbellied carpetbaggers bein all tyrannical and what not. I advise you watch all the videos before u comment ur biased opinion formed from the "facts" your grandpappy taught you.

[@ericprado3894]

You put spaghetti in your chili. Checkmate Ohioans.

[@VloggingThroughHistory]

We don’t have Skyline chili in Northeast Ohio. That’s a Cincinnati thing.

[@ericprado3894]

😧 You win this round Buckeye historian!

[@lziv7583]

“On slavery Fremont was rejected and on slavery Lincoln was elected” that’s bars 🗣️

[@ianluetkehans7822]

Hey on a civil war Facebook page I got criticized for comparing the CSA to the 3 Reich and got pointed out that the CSA was striving for independence but the Reich was already an independent nation. Your thoughts?

[@PeaceAndProgress1242]

🤡

[@ianluetkehans7822]

@@PeaceAndProgress1242 huh

[@GabrielUngacta]

That was a downright stupid arguement against your point. The comparisons between the CSA amd Nazi Germany are just undeniable.

[@SP-td9xj]

Other than racism and southerners being white it's a bad argument, germany was hellbent on world domination and was committing actual genocide against multiple groups, the south was subjugating people, yes, but germany was literally genociding people, as a black person in the south you could at least survive while being in public, as a jew in German controlled territory you could only survive living hidden under floorboards, inside an attic, living in a barn in some European countryside, etc. Basically, as a jew you're only way to survive was to hide, slavery was awful no doubt, but was definitely preferred to living as a jew in Europe, and when jews were caught, they were exterminated like cockroaches, it's the worst treatment of humans in the last few centuries, so no, while the south was the wrong side, and it's good they lost, they weren't as bad as the nazis, not even close

[@Edax_Royeaux]

4:50 "Stop, they were not. What? Somebody actually believes that's true? Come on" I think razorfist's Abraham Lincoln: American Dictator video unironically makes this point.

[@Profligateslayer]

I am delighted to inform you that VTH has a very fun reaction to that video already.

[@stephenparker6362]

Hi, Chris, that was very interesting and entertaining. I learnt things as well. Could you do a reaction to The Sinking of the Sultana by Fascinating Horror? It takes place in the last days of the civil war and released prisoners being taken home. It was a boating tragedy that took over a thousand lives, something on the scale of the Titanic but I'd never heard of it. Would love to hear your reaction to that.

[@charliedontsurf334]

It’s always fun to watch others reactions to Checkmate Lincolnites! It one of my favorite historical series. I own Gods and Generals. I watched it once and probably never again. It’s really just way too long. I appreciate the level of detail. The phrase, “the devil is in the details” exists for a reason. I’d heard about the tariff argument, but this one torpedoed the theory like a Swordfish torpedoed the Bismarck.

[@oldengames5830]

DIVINE! I love your reactions to "Checkmate Linconites!"

[@johnjamesbaldridge867]

(19:10) Yes, Lincoln was a brilliant politician, but his motives behind Emancipation were those of a brilliant lawyer. He knew that Slavery _was in the Constitution_ and he did not _have the legal authority_ to abolish Slavery, and that _only a Constitutional Amendment_ could effectuate that. The idea that Lincoln personally "supported Slavery" flies in the face of every fact known about the man. Sure, he was, as were many, concerned about how the slaves would adjust to a free society, but, I claim that after Vicksburg and thanks in no small part to Frederick Douglass there was a sea change in Northern understandings and opinions. I mean, look at John A. Rawlins' (Grant's Chief of Staff) transformation from staunch pro-Slavery northern Democrat to full-blown abolitionist and supporter of full equal rights. (See "General John A Rawlins: No Ordinary Man" by Allen J. Ottens.)

[@aaronkuhlman1392]

Don't forget Lincolns speech expressing his support for black voting Rights a few days before he died!

[@liarwithagun]

Yeah. I've heard a lot of supposed tales of "I thought this way before the war. Now I think differently and lean towards pro-black rights," or similar from people that were involved in the war.

[@timkeene27]

Slavery in UK was not extant for centuries before 1800. There were debates as to whether a slave from abroad remained a slave when landing in UK but even these usually went the way of freeing the slave. From the abolition of slave trade in 1807, UK started a campaign to stop the slave trade worldwide, starting with the transatlantic slave trade but later extended to the Mediterranean and the Eastern coast of Africa where the slave trade was Arab and Turkish driven. Even US banned the importation of slaves from 1808.

[@vaudevillian7]

Absolutely, the Somerset case just confirmed that it was unsupported by English common law (on English soil) and there had never been a statute to authorise it

[@JohnReedy07163]

The US started the movement first in 1787 when at the Constitutional Convention they agreed to end their involvement in the Worldwide Slave Trade in 20 years. That provision was written by Thomas Jefferson and he later enforced it in 1807. The British outlawed slavery in England in 1808 and promised to end slavery throughout the empire by 1910. In any Case the United States was first in the efforts of ending the slave trade. Hell part of the reason that Jefferson was for the Patriots was because in the 1760's he proposed eliminating slavery in Virginia and it was likely to pass until King George sent 2 representatives to the House of Burgesses which flopped the vote from +1 to outlaw slavery to +1 to keep slavery.

[@yashjoseph3544]

@@JohnReedy07163 1910? Don't you mean 1810?

[@JohnReedy07163]

@@yashjoseph3544 Nope, They gave 100 years to end slavery in the empire

[@yashjoseph3544]

@@JohnReedy07163 I've never heard of this.

[@699CHIP]

These civil war videos and commentary are just such great content. Keeps it up!

[@kentuckyfried9499]

I have been watching your videos since for 2 weeks now. I'm enjoying the content. Keep up the good work.

[@ROUGHSEES]

Atun-Shei is a genius at making history entertaining and authentic. I dig that so much about him.

[@comusrules1244]

I was lucky enough to meet Andy in person. Very cool guy and so nice.

[@comusrules1244]

I was lucky enough to meet Andy in person. Very cool guy and so nice.

[@Melon03296]

I am from the South and a lot of people down here say it was about all sorts of things but it really was Slavery and everyone should know that

[@angelskaixo5188]

Atun does a good job. Sure, there are some gray areas where maybe he interpreted things differently, but in all he does pretty well arguing with himself lol

[@majorianus8055]

Thanks for reaction. I think its important to have disagreements in viewpoints thats why i like your reaction

[@Slamming163]

Been waiting for another one of these!

[@PlumbumBaby]

Love the Videos, keep it up!

[@mcwildstyle9106]

Another great history lesson. I would like to recommend a video for you to react to. It's a Extra Credit's video and it's about the many different people who fought in the civil war, people like Native American's, Filipino's and many more. Your gonna be surprised by the amount of different ethnicities that fought in the war

[@akensons]

DocuDubery has some GREAT history videos. My favorites are Why Did Mr. Krabs Join the Axis Powers and How Did The Minions Survive Stalingrad

[@sleepykitty1985]

This was a good reaction vid. I like how VTH was a third party to the conversation :)

[@terrydanks]

Not sure how I stumbled in here but when I saw "The Real Cause . . . ," I was prepared for the worst. Instead, I enjoyed it immensely. My formative years in CW history were much influenced by Bruce Catton's books. To my mind he explained the cause of the war perhaps better than anyone in his introduction to the American Heritage Picture History of The Civil War.

[@good-qs9lx]

Your reaction to the intro of the video was second to none. Wish you'd react to somethings that are not history related every now and then

[@shaggycan]

3:40 Red Letter Media also uses that song as background music, must be in the public domain.

[@VloggingThroughHistory]

Or part of a subscription service like epidemic sound, which I use.

[@Kasamira]

My favorite part of these reaction videos is how Atun-Shei and you have the exact same historical triggers 😂 My favorite might be both of you being Meade Stan’s It’s like watching two people share a joke from across the room without speaking a word

[@tadesubaru1383]

Have you thought about making a video on the Spanish civil war or the war of the Balkans? Those are super interesting civil wars that often go overlooked in the big scheme of things, but they were extremely complex and important for world history

[@benlowe1701]

16:40 if by "in Britain itself" you mean, The United Kingdom, technically speaking, they only "Abolished" Slavery in the early 2000s. This is because Slavery had *never* been an accepted legal state of being since 1066 and the Normal conquest, long before Britain as a concept existed. Now don't mistake me. Britain was not some Slave Freeing Utopia. Britain eagerly participated in the Slave Trade (Abolished in the Slave Trade Act 1807) and got stinking rich from it. It made use of Slavery in its holdings abroad, Abolished in the Slavery Abolition Act 1833) and there is some evidence of Slavery being practiced illegally. But Britain NEVER Outlawed Slavery in the UK, because - as far as the law was concerned - it never EXISTED in the UK in the first place. No legislation was ever passed in England that legalised slavery. An English case in 1569 involving a man who had was accused of beating another man. When he claimed the man he was beating was a slave he had bought from Russia, it was ruled that English law did not recognise slavery, and this was upheld by the Lord Chief Justice in 1701 when he ruled that a slave became free as soon as he arrived in England. England as a nation never so much as recognised the practice (though there is plenty of evidence of people transporting and keeping slaves illegally.) Something to bear in mind when people claim that "Everyone was doing it." By 1861, Slaves had been automatically freed as soon as they stepped foot on English soil for 160 years, at the time of the the American Civil War. The same length of time between now and the American Civil War.

[@PatrickOMulligan]

It would be great to see you have a discussion with Atun-Shei.

[@zekdom]

Time-stamp 4:43 - 😂 4:58, 6:40, 8:43 - tariffs 9:17, 9:47 - lol 10:57 - purpose of the Morill Tariff, in response to the Moral Panic of 1857 12:00 - The Morill Tariff and secession’s timing 13:01 - confirmation

[@akensons]

Knowing Better makes some great videos, too, some of them about historical events. His video about Christopher Columbus is a standout

[@Adamdidit]

I think the main difference when it comes to the Gods and Generals issue is that Atun-Shei was part of the lost cause nonsense when he was younger. He's for sure viewing it from the position of someone who knows how they think and how they present things.

[@Adamdidit]

@@night6724 Show me any evidence.

[@Adamdidit]

@@night6724 and that has fuck to do with what exactly?

[@Adamdidit]

@@night6724 you really think where someone is born means they can't believe stuff? That's the entire basis for your calling a dude a liar about his entire life?

[@roboguard96]

Caught one or two of your videos and they are very insightful. As someone from the UK, I'm interested in looking more into the reconstructionist era after the civil war as I've been told by many that many of America's racial problems stem from this period. Do you have any recommendations as to where to start?

[@NoBody-lj5xh]

He had several videos on it, they're all very good.

[@roboguard96]

@@NoBody-lj5xh thanks, will have to have a look

[@benjaminvonstein]

I think you might really like some of Atun Shei’s non-Civil-war videos. Like the ones about King Philip’s War, the 1811 slave uprising 2 parter that he did with inrangetv, his big vid about the puritans, or “Following Bienville” As a former lost-causer, i think he feels some responsibility to head off certain arguments that are common from deniers; which give his civil war videos a different energy.

[@haraldisdead]

The way he says "instead is playin' with yourself. " 😂😂

[@dgriffinctc3834]

There's some economic subtleties that are absent in these arguments. The South suffered from the tariffs more than the North. They did not pay the tariffs, but the South was far more reliant on imported goods than the North and as a result the cost of living in the South was more heavily impacted by tariffs. The South was heavily reliant on exports as well. An economist will point out that when you put a tariff on let's say French cheese, they retaliate by putting tariffs on your American wheat. The net result is higher cost of living and reduced profits from exports that more heavily impacted the South. Of course, that is at best secondary to slavery and actually more tertiary to slavery and states rights on the list of reasons for secession.

[@dgriffinctc3834]

@@night6724 for what? I'm not arguing against anything said in Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government. I'm pointing out that CML radically downplays tariffs effect on the war and both he and VTH don't touch on (or ignore) key economic points. A core example being that the tariffs paid directly by the port of New York was a drop in the bucket compared to the dramatically increased cost of living suffered by the South as a result of tariffs.

[@mccabber24]

These are so good. I would looooove to see you in a Checkmate Liconites video

[@fogwar]

I've been waiting for this one!

[@ThisTrainIsLost]

Having acquainted myself with the broader trends and events of the Civil War I can afford to occasionally just lean back and be entertained.

[@martinlawrence9843]

I love your reactions and your knowledge. However Can we please acknowledge that thumbnail? Ganja Lincoln had me laughing so hard

[@stanjuan1178]

I know this comment isn't timely. But, oh well, such is KZbin. The point I can't wrap my head around is why in 2023, is this still so hotly contested by southern states. My cousin lives in Alabama and I was planning a trip to visit him. He told me that he would have to work some days but as long as I stuck in Huntsville proper, I'd be fine. I asked him what he was talking about and he strongly advised me not to go "exploring" as is my tendency. He 5hen informed me outside of Huntsville in the countryside, folks are to this day still fighting the war so to speak and he told me very seriously that it was absolutely dangerous for such an obvious yank to go sightseeing. I was floored. How is this still such a hot and contentious issue? Think about this. Based on the level of "southernness" still out there, if the circumstances allowed, we would be right back to where things were prior to the Civil War. If that's not what these people want, what other possible reason is there for such animosity still existing today such that I'd be risking my life to go exploring the countryside of Alabama. The fact that this is still such a hot issue is incomprehensible to me. It would seem that there is nothing the south would like to do more than bring slavery back. How can we be so backwards in 2023? Where is my starship Enterprise? How have we made so little progress? For all of humanities potential, I can't help but believe the current form of human is many iterations away from anything resembling intelligent. "Modern Man" is really still quite low on the evolutionary tree if intelligence is the measuring stick.

[@Jose.AFT.Saddul]

I think it has something to do in the difference of the education system. The south wanted to keep the spirit of what they believed in alive even after they lost the war. So they try to reinforce southern pride and the lost cause.

[@wxixlxsxoxn7321]

Q: How does Davy Crocket like his pie? A: ALAMO(ed)

[@JABRIEL251]

10:02 this is the truest thing ever. Funny how the the casus belli only seems to matter in the North, but in the South? Oh now the individual matters? Except, no. A soldier's personal reasons do not ultimately matter.

[@navajoguy8102]

Its funny how I've seen Union treatment of Native Americans as a defense of the Confederacy. The main people who pushed for Indian Removal during the Jackson presidency were White Southern slave owners. That same gentry who seceded from the United States were those very people who had no issue ethnic cleansings the Five Civilized Tribes so their lands could be exploited. That or they benefitted greatly from Indian Removal. Also side note one of the last generals of the Confederacy to surrender was a Cherokee man from Indian Territory. Slavery with the Cherokee and other tribes like the Choctaw and Chickasaw remains a very controversial legacy to this day. Side note, Lincoln and the Union's treatment of Natives was still horrendous as the war was going on. Sand Creek Massacre, Bear River Massacre, Fort Snelling Concentration Camp, Ft Sumner Concentration Camp etc.

[@JGSmith82]

Anytime I run into somebody who says "the civil war wasnt about slavery" I simply google Alexander Stephens's Cornerstone Speech and say "here, read this"

[@Chris-qo4rt]

Looking at theses videos now i feel so dumb for being a lost causer in my teens. I bought into this crap a lot when i was younger and more impressionable.

[@leahunverferth8247]

Don't feel dumb. Feel thankful you know the truth now and can hopefully help others to do the same

[@jjham6780]

Your not dumb, a dumb person would hold their opinions their whole life never thinking to question them (more ignorant than dumb but I digress) you challenged your beliefs enough to see the evidence that you were wrong and changed your opinions, that's the correct thing to do and one of the most intelligent things you can

[@obamacare1026]

Wdym as lost causer do you mean you thought it was solely about states rights?

[@Vohlfied]

I don't get Atun-Shei video notifications, but I get video notifications about you reacting to Atun-Shein videos.

[@matthewgillespie9405]

Remember, even negative comments help your algorithm. Great work. I’m now a subscriber. 🙂

[@CodyChepa88]

I agree with Felix . I've been waiting for this one too 💪 Also I went to John C Fremont Middle School here in Vegas .

[@jdthompson8783]

That specific piano music and alcohol mix at the beginning is an homage to Half In the Bag series by Red Letter Media youtube channel. Sorry if it's been said before, but that's why it was taking a bit of "fluff" time!

[@43sumfilmz1]

VTH Videos on the Civil War are top tier

[@music-iw1ch]

this reminds me of that Oversimplified reaction that you've done about the American civil war [1861-1865] years ago

[@42k78]

Just wanted to remind you that I love your channel and love hearing your opinions on matters like this. I love how honest you are on your channel. This fellow does have a funny confederate character. I like the idea of him always coming up with a new way to spin things just for everything to come down to the same answer. I hope he keeps making these. I'll watch them on your channel for sure.

[@David-fm6go]

21:43 the tariff issue itself was inseparable from slavery, which is another blow to the it was tariffs crowd.

[@thederpyhenchmen2946]

1:54 his face lmao

[@cweb9169]

Your reaction was great. Always enjoy your reactions because you can add additional information or at least make comparisons using other historical situations, events, etc. Far too many reactors just stare and don't say much. Which to some degree is okay but what I have found out is reactions are good when the person reacting has THOUGHTS or knowledge to add. Not naming names. Anyways great insight and reaction once again!

[@ghostreporting3769]

I like your reactions to Atun Shei. The additional dialogue is exactly what reaction content should be.

[@jollymanbigboy]

You make the funniest faces reacting to Atun Shei videos. He's clearly influenced by the redlettermedia brand of surrealist comedy.

[@tombo6245]

We need a podcast with you + Mr. Beat + Atun-Shei + The History Guy ASAP!!!

[@luckierlime5245]

someone who mains the same ones as me

[@Dryltd]

I support you regardless of disagreeing about small points.

[@airborngrmp1]

These are always great. I hadn't known that the tariff bill wasn't passed until after secession.

[@joshuawells835]

On the note of British interests relating to cotton, I finally got to go over to the University of St. Andrews in Scotland as part of a study abroad program (all study abroad programs had been cancelled the previous semesters due to COVID). When we got to the 1860s in my Scotland, Britain, and Empire module, I learned about an event called the Lancashire Cotton Famine, in which due to the Union blockade on the Confederacy, there was a shortage of cotton coming to Great Britain, which lead to a depression in the British textile industry and more unemployment. Also from this, the British came to see that they didn't need the South for cotton, as they controlled India and Egypt, both also well-established cotton growers. There was also a year's surplus of cotton to retreat on, but I get confused if that's an actual fact.

[@vaudevillian7]

That’s good that you were able to study that, although cotton farming in Egypt and India was done in a response to the Civil War and weren’t already really established on any meaningful scale prior to that

[@TillBarkley]

Do a oversimplified video tier list

[@ChuckJansenII]

Previously saw this video in the Checkmate, Lincolnites! series on Atun-Shei Films channel. His channel is great. Enjoy your reaction as always. Very knowledgeable. A collab between the 'three' of you would be great. Instead of Jack Daniels, he should have some 'PopSkull' or 'Oh Be Joyful.' "Preserving the peculiar institution of slavery." That phrase was repeated in states Articles of Secession. "The whole nature of politics for the first 80 years of the United States was about the balance of power between slave and free state." Very true statement. British Empire made International Slave Trade illegal on August 28, 1833. This act was a gradual one as it created a transition from slavery to apprenticeship and eventually emancipation. Initially it freed the slaves in the British Caribbean possessions and on August 1, 1838 all slaves in the British Empire were freed. In fact, the International Slave Trade was dealt a blow in 1807 when the purchase of slaves directly from Africa was banned. Several countries joined Britain, including the United States of America, in enforcing the ban on the transport of slaves from Africa to other continents. It did not, however, ban the act of slavery itself. Your saying this is de facto would be accurate. The slave revolt of 1837 led by Nat Turner failed. This was not the only slave revolt. There were several slave revolts in the Caribbean and many were successful. The first of these was the successful 1802 slave rebellion that led to the formation of Haiti. In 1860 when Lincoln was elected on the platform of stemming the growth of slavery the South saw that as a threat to their way of life and the possible loss of 'property.' This is a point in which you are correct. The Southern slave owners also had another series of events that motivated them to succeed from the Union in order to "Preserve the peculiar institution of slavery." That was the Missouri-Nebraska Border war (1854-1859) and the raid on Harper's Ferry led by John Brown on Oct 16 -18, 1859. The Southern slave owners, did they feel their way of life was under assault? Did this factor into the act of succession? It is correct Lincoln and the north were concerned first and foremost with 'Preserving the Union.' Lincoln recognized that this war had to be elevated to a higher purpose thus the issuing the Emancipation Proclamation. As you say, this did not free all slaves. Only those slaves of states that were in a state of rebellion were freed and could be taken as contraband of war. There was also consideration the effect the proclamation would have on British opinion that would keep them out of the war. From this moment on, thought, Lincoln made the goal of the war to include the abolition of slavery. There are many reasons why soldiers from the North and the South fought. Some Northern soldiers did fight to abolish slavery. Southern slave owners who fought were fighting to preserve slavery. Many on both sides fought for other reasons. Some thought it would be fun, an adventure. Southern soldiers fought because the North was attack them in the South. Others were conscripted in. I don't know what the motivation was for my relatives that fought for the North was. I do know my 2nd great grandfather and grand uncle were from an abolitionist family where they lived on a farm in Union County TN. They stayed out of the war until they were conscripted into the Southern Cavalry in 1863. They were in Company B of the 11th Cavalry. I believe this would have been one of the cavalry units under the command of General Nathan Bedford Forest. Holy Smokes Folks!!!! Did I get long winded again? Yup.

[@Beriothien007]

There is a new band I found, similar to Sabaton in the sense that their songs are about history. The band is called, "Civil War"

[@jackmessick2869]

So that explains why as the head of the port of New York Chester Arthur was picked for Vice President in 1880. Never made sense to me before.