Vocal Talent VS Vocal Skill (Kpop)

[@officialmdlive]

talent is the potential, skill is the practice. if both come together, the result is competency

[@sandy_carpetsthesecond5013]

I actually disagree. Vocal talent + skill is Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston. They're naturally more pleasing than your average person (due to their tones) but also have way more training than your average vocalist. You have plenty of singers who have one or the other, but you rarely have a singer who has both.

[@l_ha3er1n_]

​@@sandy_carpetsthesecond5013But Mariah Carey's training is mostly discovering her own voice through the stage, she did take classes with her opera mom when she was little but they were on bad terms and split up plus she forgot everything. If you see her first concert America the Beautiful, she had absolutely no training knowledge, none. And still it was technically perfect and she mastered that whistle on her own. Whitney also didn't need training from another person other than her mom who was actually a top singer and musician in black churches and even then it's not more training than average since an average training like mine is 13 years. This exemple is quite tricky since their voice are religiously blessed

[@poof9327]

@@sandy_carpetsthesecond5013they don’t have a pleasing lol. They just have the skills 😂

[@sandy_carpetsthesecond5013]

@@l_ha3er1n_ Singing isn't buolt on knowledge, it's built on habits and muscle memory. The only time you really need to know anything about singing is if you're gonna teach someone else. Uf not, you just need to know what singing should feel like.

[@sandy_carpetsthesecond5013]

@@poof9327 .. Mariah Carey is literally known for her sweet tone and whistle notes. Whitney is known for her powerful belts, and her dark, round tone. Like... you might not like their tone, but their tones are a massive part of what makes their brands. They have/had very recongnisable tones which made them stand out. Compare that to Sohyang, who has great skills but is often mocked for her tone... well, you see the diffrrence.

[@natsukashi1431]

Can you imagine if Taemin had only focused on dancing because that's what he was best at? What if Ningning had decided she didn't need vocal training because she was naturally talented already? Thankfully, they both decided to grow as artists and we get to enjoy the fruits of their efforts. Excellent video!

[@angelasmith2504]

Great comment,from what I've seen Taemin worked very hard on his vocals and now he is so stable when singing live and sounds great!

[@LANAREY-rq4nx]

like have you seen ningning’s dance skills as of lately she is the 2nd best dancer of the group to me that’s why it’s important for idols to not overly focus on one skill

[@a.t.l400]

​@@LANAREY-rq4nx Winter is the 2nd best dancer (technique wise) Ning ning is the best performer

[@killbethy]

@@LANAREY-rq4nxI really hope SM keeps providing NingNing good vocal trainers or allows her to get a coach independently. A lot of the non-main vocalists (especially in SM since they almost universally have at least one very competent vocalist per group) improve because they are helped by the main vocalists in their group. A lot of agencies unfortunately leave further training up to the members, which places the main vocalists in pseudo-coach positions. With NingNing already being the best vocalist in aespa, that most likely means she will have to train independently (Wendy, Luna, and Taeyeon all had additional training from outside SM... I'm not sure about the male main vocals). I hope NingNing is provided with the same! She is a great singer now, but it's also easy to see that she has *a lot* of potential that is still there as well. I think she could very well be SM's best female main vocalist down the road if she is given the tools to keep improving. She has something that I've only really seen Luna tap into and, more recently, Wendy has started as well: strategic placement. NingNing knows how to place (and support) her voice in her head when she wants brighter, clearer sounds and also in her chest when she wants richer, warmer sounds. I haven't really heard her experiment with mask placement yet, but SM seems to discourage their main vocalists from using mask placement. They often leave that ti their lead vocalists... probably to diversify the vocal tones within a group.

[@dotonboritakoyaki]

@@LANAREY-rq4nx she's not tho

[@helloangel2325]

Taemin sure is the representation of improvement

[@emmakaracson9916]

I'm so glad you finally mentioned Ningning's Lee Mujin service appearance. Her Be natural cover was so impressive. She is such a gem.

[@KhadaJhin04]

Although the video is touched, it genuinely showed her range after four years of being dungeoned, people genuinely don't give her credit simply because SM isn't allowung her to sing live and use her full range.

[@rianrony515]

​@@KhadaJhin04 isn't she the one who went to it's live?

[@KhadaJhin04]

@@rianrony515 Yes, but the song choice wasn't my favourite.

[@rianrony515]

@@KhadaJhin04 but it was a good choice to highlight her vocal abilities

[@Elric-zz2sb]

@@KhadaJhin04i really like her but i just wish she’d start to sing less heady when mixing/belting, her hv isn’t her forte but her lower register is great and the best in her gen

[@hitmanbangsyellowcrocs4213]

Taemin will forever be the poster child for PROGRESS 💯

[@plsticminmin]

I truly truly really really love Taemin's vocal, and I admire him a lot.

[@fivestarmichelin_]

Talent might give you a headstart, but skills are definitely what will ultimately make you a vocalist.

[@Zarlor97422]

@@fivestarmichelin_ Talent is not a headstart, work is. Talent will be the Infinite boost. Work is what make anyone build skills. With talent you will developp skills faster and higher level and that will make you un out standing vocalist. Without talent it will make you a average to good vocalist.

[@ballistachicken]

I'm really glad you mentioned Taemin in this video! I hadn't really followed his music or his group personally because it wasn't always my thing, but I remember at one point you mentioning him in an older video and noticing the huge difference in his voice, which then led me to listen to his music again. I think it's so commendable when an idol (and I suppose in part, their company) puts in the time and dedication to improve. It should be talked about more, because it's not fun to accept that maybe you aren't the best right now while still not letting it crush your goal of becoming better. It's a hard line to walk steadily and I think it should just be commended more publicly in general ❤

[@xxSmokeylovexx]

@Ofra8191-FINALLY someone revealing the truth about Taemin’s vocal journey because there’s so much misinformation out there about SM training him when they didn’t lift a finger for him. Also how his members trained him a little but people think they were his ONLY vocal coaches which is just ridiculous because they couldn’t babysit him 24/7. He got REAL professional help and now after 16 years he’s having his FIRST WORLD TOUR 😁🩵 It’s just understandable why Taemin is the idol’s idol and his story is one for the history books.

[@helenas7948]

@Ofra8191- I'm sorry, but you greatly overexaggerate. Let's not make unreal stories. It's not true that the company didn't train him at all. That would be just strange, especially in SM, which really puts effort to train vocalists. He said that there was a period, when his voice was changing due to puberty, and he wasn't allowed to take vocal lessons, only listen to them. It was in fact a good decision, which every voice coach will tell you. Of course he wasn't happy about it, being a very ambitious boy, who was just told he was going to debut soon. He felt he wasn't vocally ready, which was true. He probably should have trained for at least 2 more years. SM decided to debut him very early, probably because they had 3 strong vocalists in the group, so they decided his high dancing level would be enogh for that time. He was also told by ONE vocal coach he was tone-deaf and that hurt his pride and made him practice more. But even this situation tells us that he was, in fact, receiving vocal lessons. His members did help him, but if you believe that he learned to sing only thanks to help of two teenage boys, you don't know much about vocal training.

[@le_pierrot_rouge]

Jonghyun was not Taemin's vocal teacher nor Onew, they helped him at times, in fact taemin said once that Jonghyun helped him more in terms of interpretation that singing technique per se. It was Taemin's pure dedication and effort to practice by himself and later being coached by a recognized vocal coach that made him the excellent singer who is today. Second point, yeah sm didn't give him vocal lessons, but he was fine when he debuted, in the video used here of Taemin singing Romantic, he was very nervous, that's why it's not representative of the overall skills he had when he was a rookie. Lastly we don't know exactly why that teacher said that he was tone deaf but sm's trainers said that SHINee were bad singers when the were preparing to debut so I wouldn't rely much in their words.

[@helenas7948]

@@le_pierrot_rouge Please, let's stop with this legend that Taemin did not receive vocal training from SM. That would be just stupid. He didn't have vocal lessons when his voice was changing due to puberty (which is a right decision), but he himself mentioned SM vocal lessons and vocal coaches many times, for instance in Knowing Brothers' episode with SuperM. He also mentioned many songs that the SM trainees were learning during their lessons etc.

[@helenas7948]

@Ofra8191- Didn't you watch the Knowing Bros episode with SuperM when he mentioned the vocal training techniques using in SM? Didn't you hear him mention numerous songs that he learned as a trainee in SM? Please, he was a trainee, which means he was trained. Do you really think that SM just has these people in their building for years and do nothing with them? Jonghyun helped EXO members, just as SuJu members helped SHINee members in the beginning (for instance Shindong with dancing), but he wasn't a vocal teacher as such, as far as I know.

[@AM_1011]

Taemin is the best, for a main dancer and he is in a group with 2 very strong vocalists but he still gets a lot of singing parts. Especially after Jonghyun left and Onew went on hiatus. Taemin is really crazy... Recently they reunited with the full members on the show Hangout with Yoo, you can see it on MBC. And as usual Onew tried to destroy his mic😂

[@mashitaali8481]

Taemin is a perfect example to mention in this video. His hard work and dedication have propelled him to become an idol of idols in the K-pop industry. As an all-rounder performer, he exemplifies excellence.

[@aisyahmissus]

the greatest (pop) singers of all time have always been a mixture of pure talent and skill - whitney, celine, mariah & beyonce

[@aisyahmissus]

also their background as gospel singers/ have parents as singers

[@monique2939]

Well considering that Taemin's natural talent is dancing He came pretty far in singing now look at him covering Jonghyun's parts and high notes really admirable

[@abcdef-kf3my]

Baekhyun is gifted and talented but you know what he wants to be the best, he wants to be better than yesterday, he’s a goal oriented hardworking guy and also humble that’s why he keeps on learning and practicing and that’s why he’s top there…one of the most successful artists in the industry. We can learn a lot and get inspired from him.

[@luciole7452]

Most of SM artists are like him. Look at Kyuhyun and Ryeowook. Despite Chen's improvements, he can't reach their level because they continue to work on their vocals.

[@baekhyunsfeet2053]

​@@luciole7452 so you think Chen doesn't work on his vocals? 🤦🏻‍♀️ Go and spread your hate somewhere else

[@mashedpotato3291]

@@luciole7452 lol Chen is better than both and still takes vocal lesson too.

[@luciole7452]

@@mashedpotato3291 Chen better than Kyuhyun and Ryeowook ??? Only Exols believe it.

[@prajwal1230]

Nah kyuhyun hits different ​@@mashedpotato3291

[@youcanstay3815]

Taemin recently sang "y si fuera ella" Jonghyun's version, i was really surprised on how he hited every note, it was a beautiful cover

[@dear7003]

some people criticized his cover, but imo he did a good job, especially considering the fact that he didn't have much time to prepare and got emotional. this song is considered one of the hardest to sing in Korea. Jonghyun made it seem easy

[@ivana-fr7ri]

​​@@dear7003He didn't do it badly but he didn't do it very well either. But I think if he rehearses he can definitely do better. considering that the song was chosen at random

[@machinelearner108]

I think any musician (vocalist or instrumentalist) will agree with me when I say talent gets you hardly anywhere. It's the arduous repetition, practising scales again and again, recording yourself playing a passage hundreds of times and crying over how bad it sounds, focusing on the difficult sections, training your body, which gets you to a high level. Unfortunately, non-musicians or people who want to take the easy road seem to have the misconception that lack of talent at birth means you'll never be a great artist. That idea is total rubbish. Anyone in a music school or conservatory will tell you that.

[@squarcircle2254]

While I agree with you, contrary to what most might say, talent does half the work. What do I mean? I mean that, while a singer without talent would have to practice 10 times, a talented singer would need to practice only 5 times. A non-talented singer would struggle to replicate/emulate a song/artiste but a talented one would be able to do so, without any training. I mean, if you could do anything by just practice over and over and over again, then only wealthy people would be the best at everything. But that’s not true. Ever been in a classroom with 2 students, learning that topic for the first time and one grasps/understands it quicker than the other? That means training and practice can also only take you so far. Without talent, there’s only so far you can go, in whatever you do.

[@youngornitier]

Singing is different than judging instruments you play, number one thing being that you do not visually see it happening the way you can see fingers on a piano or guitar. People definitely do get a lot of places and become famous with nothing but singing talent and completely mediocre or worse skill/practice in singing

[@varvara9624]

@@kitty.miracle that is a very naive judgement which is very easily disproven by a simple comparison. Talent gives you a leverage to improve any skill - like when you begin training a skill you have no talent in you start from level 0, but someone talented starts from level 5 already. It is just how life is

[@youngornitier]

@@kitty.miracle Try again without fuming so hard, your comment to me isn't even showing because of how much attitude you have. You're naive and clearly have no real life experience with singers. The definitions of "talent" and "skill" in this video are completely arbitrary, talent is a spectrum. Saying most famous singers have "no talent" is absurd. They have talent, even if it is not a great amount of it because again, it is a spectrum. What in the world does it even mean to have "pure skill"? lol? If you have pure skill it implies you're very skilled, so you must be good by definition. I think what you mean by "pure skill" is whether someone has practiced very very hard, in which case, again, you are naive. You can practice as hard as Lebron James or Jordan at basketball but if you're 5'0 or 152cm and unathletic, good luck thinking you'll become just like them from practice. "talent is for newbs", again spoken like someone who lives in an idealistic fantasy with no real life experience. The most untalented singers out there are the ones that are very very bad at imitating tones/timbres, have a very poor ability to match pitch, no expressiveness or musicality and rhythm, etc. Now these individuals can practice very very hard, but they will improve at a snail's pace in comparison to someone with talent. At the end of the day, it is a very nuanced topic which even this video did not do very well at explaining in detail, and most of what people consider the "best" singers are very obviously a combination of raw talent and a lot of practice. You arguing that super hardwork and practice with little to no talent can always get someone further than a very talented and hardworking person is wishful thinking.

[@youngornitier]

@@kitty.miracle spoken like someone in an idealistic fantasy and not reality. What even is "pure skill", by definition it implies you're good at something lol. What you want to say is that someone who practices very hard with no talent can always beat talent + hard work and that is just flat out untrue in vast majority of cases. You can practice basketball all you want at 5'0/152cm while unathletic but you won't play like Jordan or Lebron James. "talent is for newbs" wild comment. What people consider the "best singers" are always a combination of raw talent and hard work, if you believe otherwise then name some of the "best singers" who had "no talent" but only hard work/practice. And by the way, the definitions of "talent" and "skill" in this video are very arbitrary, talent is a spectrum.

[@nessa8017]

taemin's vocal improvement must be studied cause that man's vocals are just crazy now. he covered jjong's notes in lucifer and stranger in recent shinee concerts

[@CristlePera-rz3hx]

Taemin is the definition of hardwork

[@melila928]

Side note: I find it so sad how Le Sserafim have become the poster child for a talentless group. They need to go on a long hiatus and comeback better vocally.

[@AEChronicler]

Glad I'm not the only one thinking that. They can improve. It just seems like the trajectory isn't like that for their company. I have my fingers crossed for August or whenever their comeback will be.

[@Divetiny]

I’ve been saying! The girls really need to go on a 6 month to 1 year break to practice their vocals. If they did that then they could come back as a powerhouse group and gain a lot of respect from fans and even professionals.

[@tinktatkat]

what’s sad is that people think of them as talentless when they aren’t. They have delivered so many times great live signing and amazing performances, but no one uses those clips or they attacks the girls with AR etc. They may not be on the level vocally as some groups but they are amazing and out class many groups in other areas. The real sad truth is people just want to hate them. It won’t matter if they take months off or a year. People will still choose like this channel to use the same clips to say mean things and make them a poster child. They will get AR allegations or lip sync but because people like this channel and the commenters on it they will never be able to prove themselves because you guys already classify them as talentless

[@rainbowsubs2]

I don't think Sakura can improve to be honest, her voice cracks and sounds so nasally even when she speaks normally. It would definitely be impressive if she did but I doubt...

[@NewSyl_zx9ik]

​@@rainbowsubs2it's something you can practice. She definitely has a really hard voice to control but with practice everything can be possible but she only focus performance and dance.

[@melisacaceres8740]

I love and adore Taemin. He's always been my favorite voice in SHINee (and I ADORE OT5), since I started to listen to their music since "Why So Serious?" where Taemin was already capable enough to cover for Jonghyun, I couldn't believe he barely had lines in the first album. But aside from that, I find frustrating that many so called fans are so surprised that Minho can sing really well too when Minho has been helping Taemin with his lines for YEARS. Every member of SHINee are incredible vocalists.

[@BruhImAGirl]

Male singers have a down phase during early puberty, that’s the time where most boys drop out of music. No matter the skill, it’s almost impossible to control voice cracking at that age.

[@supertree08]

Just the other day my sister and our cousin revisited their favorite male crush SM artists [Super Jr., DBSK, SHinee, etc.] on KZbin and 'oh my dear god (in JiU's voice)', I forgot how talented artists were back then. I hope we get remastered version or something of older songs.

[@littlelou050]

great vocalists have both talent & skill. they understand and feel the music and at the same time have put in the work to sound good, become versatile and keep a healthy voice. talent is important but relying solely on that sticks you in a box. skill is important but hundreds of millions can learn how to sing, not everyone has star factor. one of my favourite male vocalists is max schneider. i appreciate how naturally emotive and playful he is but he always puts an emphasis on training. his skill allows his talent to shine through more. as in all things-balance. 🤝

[@jjuaassol]

It’s not fair, but to be the best in any field, just hard work without talent isn’t enough. In ultra-competitive areas like sports or entertainment, you need gifted talent, a lot of effort, and lots of luck. The issue with some K-pop groups is that they have a huge amount of luck but only the talent for a local soccer club and lack the effort to overcome that, yet they pretend to be Premier League-level and take a big share of the glory. I respect Lily and Wendy, who are growing into divas with their gifted talent and relentless effort. I also expect NingNing to be on the same path that Wendy and Lily are on.

[@jjuaassol]

Please don't misunderstand me. Aespa debuted earlier than NMIXX. However, Lily already made it to the top 4 on K-pop Star, one of the biggest singing competition TV shows in Korea, when she was just 12 year old. Lily started her professional music career much earlier than NingNing.

[@littlelou050]

agreeeeee. star factor and consistent skill building go hand in hand. no matter what. the people who excel in whatever career have both. they always have both. a natural gift and passion AND work ethic. you can see it everywhere in entertainment, in sports, hell you can see it in politics aswell. for example elected offices. they don't get in solely on the work, they have to connect with voters and some are just better at socialising than others. you can definitely build on social skills but someone who's naturally comfortable surrounded by people will always be the winner.

[@Yointrovert]

The problem is that Sm didn't utilize her skills properly. You know Sm is xenophobic, so they don't want Ningning to shine properly.

[@McKavian]

​@@Yointrovert Listen to Time After Time with BoA, Wendy and Ning² - it's beyond amazing.

[@Yointrovert]

​@@littlelou050 You're right about the star factor. I can give an example like Luna from fx.She fits all the criteria you mentioned. Her skills are consistent, but what she lacked was a star factor, which is why her solo didn't do well. Lots of fans agree that she didn't have a star factor like her other members and that she did try hard to appeal to the public. It's such a shame cause she is extremely passionate towards music.

[@LLA-lr8kw]

8:01 LUNA, Scouted as a ---- Dancer Debuted as a ---- One of the best vocalists in Kpop at the age of 16.

[@empressmarowynn]

Makes me think of Seungmin. Dude clearly has a talent but it took him getting proper lessons for his voice to shine.

[@clxkkr]

And now he is undeniably the "main" vocalist of skz

[@starminoui]

Seungmin clearly works VERY hard on his already beautiful voice. He sounds better every comeback.

[@Gelatin0824]

I love how most of the videos are about SM group❤

[@pinkblood7859]

Lot of respect for those who work hard to get that skill

[@riahlexington]

Taemin was never tone deaf tho, he was going thru puberty and didn’t have experience… they didn’t wanna train him cuz he’s tone deaf. He practiced himself a lot and developed his skills better. And Jonghyun and Onew helped him.

[@Slayologyy]

The background instrumental is nice I LUV THIS SONG

[@shaneywaney2]

I feel so dumb but what is the first instrumental again? I recognise it but can't place it😂😭

[@pewpew1511]

@@shaneywaney2rose’s “Hard to Love”

[@shaneywaney2]

​@@pewpew1511that's the one at the end of the video. I've just figured out the one in the first chapter is Sweet Juice by Purple Kiss💜

[@pewpew1511]

@@shaneywaney2 The video literally starts with “hard to love” though 😭

[@shaneywaney2]

​@@pewpew1511I'm so dumb, I apologise. Thank u for your help tho😭

[@strangeannie5160]

I don't know why but this kind of debate about vocals is my favourite, the way you talk about it is so good and I don't know, I just like it❤

[@luastjarna]

You gave a hug to my soul including those Moon Byul clips on this vid. 😭 My girlie really works hard, thank you so much for the aknowledgement! ❤️

[@yutanoegao426]

So much respect for Taemin

[@Pudpuds-k8k]

Le sserafim, illit, and newjeans should learn from Taemin what a true artist is.

[@uc6758]

Newjeans isnt that bad tho Their high isnt high, but their low isnt loww

[@Yoongi10269]

Agree, but not for New jeans. At their début, they were not confident but now they are doing pretty well for what their song needs.

[@Hellokitty_391]

Fr lol

[@aisyahmissus]

Add enhypen to the list too!

[@vixxexo6855]

@@uc6758New Jeans are extremely bad, even worse the Le Sserafim. Le Sserafim atleast dances well, while New Jeans can’t even do that. Yunjin and Chaewon also have better technique then anyone in New Jeans.

[@Robalexe]

Man that Sweet Juice bgm is so good

[@distanthighway5773]

That clip of Kyuhyun is stunning, I wish he would do an official cover like Solar’s!

[@finuandrea]

And we all know how talent is not the most important factor to be famous kpop idols. We can see many overrated overhyped groups/artists that can't even sing properly but they are super famous.

[@n.137]

Both are important. Talent + Skill = BTOB

[@rainbowsubs2]

Can you also talk about Haseul from Loona? She recently sang the national anthem in a Baseball game and sounded so ethereal it's crazy how she improved since her debut!

[@R0VERKAI]

Kyungsoo is the definition of a gifted singer. He doesn't even take vocal lessons after his debut but still sounds amazing and skilled whenever he opens his mouth.

[@Alexandra_Indina]

Well this is just not true. Kyungsoo still takes vocal lessons, bc he is a professional.

[@baeko586]

Like Baekhyun. We can hear the difference between his debuts and now. Like D.O, his talent is unquestionable, but he enhanced his abilities through vocal lessons, and now his voice is like a pure bliss to the ears. I think talent is nothing without training.

[@sointosoo]

I'm sure he do take vocal lessons even after his debut

[@yachi4702]

Actually, DO and Baekhyun both took lessons from Johyung from Shinee. Saw a video of him talking about it. The only one out of the 3 main vocalists of EXO who didn't was Chen. There is also a video of Baekhyun visiting with his vocal coach after he got out of the military. There were quite a few idols there in the video.

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

F(x)'s Luna is actually an example of acquired skill like Taemin, she auditioned just as a dancer and learned how to sing at SM. Some people really respond well to training and pick things up fast. Taeyong was apparently a horrible dancer and only got in for visuals, but a couple years later he was the main dancer.

[@rkdo9554]

THANK GOD I STAN EXO.

[@onetrickponysona2613]

ONEUS Seoho said he was tone deaf when he auditioned for RBW and only got in because of his smile. now hes the main vocalist

[@nabisonyo]

I look forward to 5th gen vocal ranking with groups like Unis, tripleS, Young posse also included among the well known groups❤

[@D.Ogodsz]

A vocalist with good vocal technique has possessed both talent and skill. Kyungsoo is the best example for that. He has a pretty popular vocal tone as well. My man is everything. Btw im still amazed at how Kyuhyun hit a4 note in 8:11 so effortless. It's very well resonated.

[@LADYSILVERWOLF028]

Watchinf Taemin explode in his singing ability has been so incredible to watch. It makes me want to work harder.

[@baygon5297]

idk about sm training now (riize's vocals are so underwhelming for me except Sohee but it might be just bcs of their songs) but sm training must be so intense back then cause aside from Taemin, they made Luna one of the best vocalists in kpop and she originally auditioned as a dancer!

[@Wahtawah1]

SM didn't make Taemin a good singer. Taemin practiced in his spare time, often instead of sleeping. He has only himself to thank for the achieved result!!!

[@riahlexington]

@@Wahtawah1this is commendable but also scary, teens need their sleep. I hate SM

[@mankacsak9150]

SM has nothing to do with Taemin's singing skills. Taemin told in a documentary, SM told him: "your voice is not meant for singing, you should just dance". But he didn't give up. He practiced in his spare time.

[@bluvillage]

riizes choreos are so hard there’s really no point of training hard for singing when they’re gonna lipsync LOL. riize is probably the first sm group to ever focus on performance/dance rather than vocals/singing

[@anitbubu3064]

I honestly feel sm doesn't do much to train their idols vocals.... i still can't believe renjun and chenle still haven't developed a good singing technique and are the main vocalist of nct dream... I think sm is good at casting great vocalist that are naturally talented.... but they dont actually take their time to make them improve even more!

[@M-km5ic]

Being a vocalist is similar to being a drawer. You can be "talented", but if you don't know BASICS, your drawings won't be good in terms of technique.

[@jaybird-hn3dq]

Actually some people just naturally learn the techniques throughout imitation.

[@delisyus]

As a shawol… I absolutely love SHINee’s dedication to their craft. Aside from Taemin coming so far, we have Onew who is already talented and acknowledged as a great vocalist who took voice lessons again after military. Even Minho (who has a natural talent for sports and had to work hard to sing and dance strong with SHINee) took voice lessons. And Onew could have played it safe doing ballads but he even released upbeat songs he’d have to dance to. I also especially laud SM and their artists coz they never seem to stop honing their craft, which is why you see Taeyeon still slaying with her voice intact.

[@Ychae02]

Yeah, back then the members always said that he’s shy to sing and even himself said that back then he couldn’t really sing, but after years of dedication, he improved so much, like a big jump of vocal improvements. Now, he introduced himself as an all rounder.

[@PrinceOfTheSound]

I knew Taemin would be here

[@sunhyolic]

wait i swear there was another video just like this one

[@lcutie36]

SM family !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@moraeine]

ningning really born to be a singer and born to a star❤

[@kjdfancams1965]

i feel like ppl like taemin would possible have talent its just they never till now to train to have better vocals i dont think someone with skills would be able to sing if they didnt have the talent burried deep down waiting to be exploited

[@s.lotus74]

talent is being NATUALLY good at somthing effortlessly. tallent isnt something you train from. that being said you can be tallented in some aspects and not so much in otheres so if what you mean is that developing technique allowed him to shine inj a different area of his voice the i suppose i could understand

[@marianasaraiva8728]

Please make a video like this with western artists

[@promisetourself]

Now I really have to accept I have absolutely no ear for vocal skills or however one wants to call it: the Bad Example for Taemin sounds completely fine to me 😅 explains why I so rarely hear what people mean when they call someone „pitchy“ or „strained“

[@poussinette1562]

Amazing video as always!!! Are you considering a video about idol who have improved since their debut? Even if they are not still as accomplished as they could be, those taking singing lessons for example. I am very curious about who is actually working to improve their technique

[@karmasaur8695]

Please make a VIDEO ABT SOLAR IMPROVED VOCS

[@aworldwithnoend82]

I'm so early for no reason 😂😂😂😂

[@eliana5000]

Taemin was a 14 yearold BOY is voice was changing, judging him or his singing voice at that age is just stupid. No only that but the fact the second video was when he was 16 like...

[@riahlexington]

Literally.

[@delisyus]

I love Taemin but while what you say is true for boys, there are also sooooo many boys who were naturally talented who can sing well at that age, slaying their stages. In the Philippines, we had a group called Smoky Mountain who all started when they were around 13 years old. 3 boys and 1 girl. They’d move on to win awards at international musicfests. It doesn’t take anything away from Taemin when we say he has improved a lot. It is actually great that he persevered and in his own words, achieved his dream to be a singer in his own right. The fact that he was the first to release a solo album in SHINee is testament to how much effort he poured into music.

[@silentnight4025]

Purple Kiss Sweet juice

[@neobongzzz]

banger video

[@soona22573]

Seeing all these comments about Taemin ❤❤❤❤ aaaah ❤❤❤❤

[@Zarlor97422]

The perfect example of Talent for me is Kang Hyung Ho alias PITTA member of Forestella. He NEVER took a single singing lesson and he was selctionnate as contestant in the show '' phantom singer'' he was the only amateur if the show and he won. Majority of singers will never reach his level. The man is born a singer. He signed to form Forestella and 2 years later only he released His first solo album BE FREE hé wrote, compose and produce the entire album by Himslef ! Alone ! 100% there is only his name on song credit and it's so so so so. Good ! Thé LV Bé free by PITTA is Amazing , the lyrics are beautiful. He is just impressive and all self taught ! Again HE NEVER TOOK A SINGLE SINGING LESSON ! THAT IS PURE TALENT. It's sad K-pop community look down on such a prodigy.

[@djlovesmusic]

I love that you show Red Velvet, even though you don’t mention them. All are talented and because they are with SM who respects voice, they are trained well and are motivated to always improve their skills. If you listen to them this year compared to 10 years ago, they are much better from practice and continuous training. Wendy is the best example of that. Her voice and technical skills get better every year.

[@saebiurisaebi]

Among the kpop Idol ive seen so far, lily is definitely a talent. She was my favorite on kpopstars. She compete with her raw talent and placed very well. She sound polished and skillful as textbook now.

[@PJHARVEYSZ]

Luna mentioned!

[@stephaniekim8018]

Hi I've been really enjoying your videos! I was hoping you could address Pentagon's (my ult group) main vocal Jinho who (in my unprofessional opinion) is really amazing and does covers on his YT channel Magazine Ho. I recommend his cover of Gethsemane. Please check it out, I think he needs more awareness. Hui from Pentagon would also be another interesting topic of analysis because of his beautiful and intuitive singing. Thanks

[@baccano5003]

I think ningning is a good example of Talent and WInter good example of smart girl Ningning has the gift and hardwork on was she has and she become even strong, and WInter is very smart grl and learn very quicly with her mistakes but not the healths way sometimes, she goes more for doing the job done than more health compared to ningning, like doing high notes that are very high in her range and most chest that sound very piercing and feels bad for trhouth and health (DOnt know that if that someting related to her surgery is about her sing style, but these days are more mixed than chest high notes) but both able to their job and become even strong even comeback, ist very impressive ❤ Their learn from their mistakes and hardwork even more ❤😊

[@Лена-р6я3и]

Vocal talent is not everything ofc, but it gives you some fora like to be born with perfect pitch or to be able sing soulful, groovy, have rock typa voice etc Skills are just education. Almost everyone can be trained to be a vocalist but not everyone can be a singer. The analogy is the fashion. Everyone can learn how to sew, but to make it tastefully and make people want to wear your clothes is where talent helps you. Also, a singer is nobody without the songs. Its a key point. You can have the best voice on the world but if your songs suck or are niche you wont be successful enough.

[@cashmeredelicate1373]

successful but can't sing? can't perform?

[@Лена-р6я3и]

@@cashmeredelicate1373 lol, the reach. Dont you see how people with mid vocals can be very successful due to the songs? Billie E, Ed, Psy, tiktokers. The song can flop artist's career and can make him big. Artists are known through songs. Do you really not understand such basics?

[@Ychae02]

For Ningning, it’s the real talent. If you wanna know why check out the show she sang in China when she was 12 years old. Mind blowing.

[@Ychae02]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnzOgpyfqteInbcsi=eKp3xRNulrSROmrg This

[@AvocadoPear]

I’ll be honest, I’m still a bit confused. Maybe it’s just Ningning being used as an example that’s tripping me up. Because she said she had no formal vocal training prior to joining SM, but then you showed a clip from before she joined SM where she clearly could sing quite well. She had foundational talent. So from that I understood “talent” to mean that the idol can produce a pleasant sound without the need for formal training. But then later you talk about how the problem today is that talented idols aren’t given the proper training to hone their skills. But if they had raw talent wouldn’t that mean that they would still sound good and be able to naturally progress to a certain point without the need for extensive vocal training? Like Ningning did before she started training? Are there any particular idols you can use as examples of newer gen singers who are talented but unskilled? Because I feel like when people talk about many of today’s idols being bad singers, the issue is more that vocal talent is considered less important than other factors (dance, performance, charisma, visuals) when putting together new groups - whereas in earlier gens that wasn’t the case.

[@FrozenAlacrity]

Lack of formal training doesn't mean someone isn't developing their skills. Formal training, done correctly anyway, can help someone develop much faster, but what's more important is the personal willingness and aptitude for learning anyway. Someone can have all the formal training in the word but if the person themselves isn't committed to improvement, then it doesn't do much. Granted, it is possible for someone to work hard and not improve much, teaching themselves poor habits and whatnot, and that's where formal training can help correct those things, but especially with the voice because it is fully a physical part of you, a lot of the training has to do with developing mind muscle connection over time, so just singing a lot (healthily of course) is a form of development and gives you a massive head start from someone else, even if they both start formal training at the exact same time. Most idols nowadays, as you probably know, don't sing live, so if they're not either taking lessons/getting coaching or singing a lot on their own, they're only ever really singing when they record, which is really not enough practice to have any meaningful development.

[@AvocadoPear]

@@FrozenAlacrity That’s all good info, so thanks! But I guess what I was getting at with my question is more like: what actually is vocal talent and what does it actually look like when someone is talented but has underdeveloped skills. Like it would be nice to have some examples of that since I’m not sure if I can determine on my own who the new gen idols (that he mentioned) are that fit that description.

[@sky_6341]

​@@AvocadoPearkarina? She has alot of the basics down, but doesnt do alot with her voice (belting, runs, etc) she doesnt do them and honestly she probably cant. But i dont know if she is good with the basics (rythm, acurate pitch, etc) because of talent or training. Im pretty sure theres videos on this channel talking about her tho.

[@omgwhtvr123]

karina can belt and sing runs lol. forever savage dreams come true spicy thirsty we go drama are songs that show her either belting and or singing decent runs. shes not some kind of vocal diva but shes more than alright

[@SamirLimbu-q4v]

❤❤❤❤my Exo and SM,S artist

[@lleahs118]

Can you analysis Xiaojun and Ten of WayV, really like their vocals

[@socorro_silveira]

Finally first LOL

[@RynWeaber]

Please make video of the vocals in NCT

[@peekakuchu6878]

Doesn't matter how talented and skilled you are, those with the it factor will trump you no matter what, they are less skilled, less talented but have that quality that appeals to the masses. Tori kelly is one such artist, so talented and skilled, so why isnt she a chart topper like Taylor? That star quality is too strong and unfortunately many dont have it, doesnt mean Tori doesnt shine, just nowhere near as brightly as others, at least in the eyes of the masses.

[@noname-vz5wx]

Super interesting video :) I was wondering if someone who has physical limitation, such as having asthma, can also become a good singer (gain skills)?

[@ynachoi5072]

ailee

[@gwanghwamunresident]

god i forgot the name of the song kyuhyun is singing at 8:21 someone help

[@laiElf06]

if i remember correctly the song title is etude of memories he also sing that in immortal song

[@gwanghwamunresident]

@@laiElf06 it’s although i loved you from the days musical 😭 i found it later but ill listen to that one too

[@lanyuchiha]

3:37 what song is this choreo for, please?

[@hyprfany]

❤‍🔥

[@mhinara]

all this talent and skill discourse just to be defeated by visuals and fanservice skills (parasocial thingzzz) lmao

[@itsbritneybisch8552]

And then you have HYBE a ton of other 4th and 5th gen idols just relying on their good looks and fan service to carry them through.

[@TheStupidBoy.]

Hybe rely on their producers and composers because the only thing that make hybe group succesful is their songs.

[@schoenesmaedchen]

Can someone please tell me who are the people from 8:01 - 8:30 ?

[@pannybunny1510]

Luna (fx), Kyuhyun (SJ), and Ailee, respectively.

[@schoenesmaedchen]

@@pannybunny1510 Thank you so much!! ❤

[@yukijenkins86]

Cosmic instrumental is so prettyy

[@Rahima66789]

When it comes to vocal no one can beat exo

[@a.t.l400]

Super junior can😊

[@okpok3089]

Can you make a video about XG’s voices

[@allya8234]

What's the name of the song from 4:45 plz?

[@delisyus]

SHINee’s song Romantic kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIbQdZqZm8xsosksi=jfRgyIDbUPHfX1aB

[@anna0890]

Look up Solar singing her song Blues yesterday in Taiwan, she is absoluley incredible and should be talked about much more!

[@aintnootherfan]

May I have a link?😄

[@McKavian]

Then you have people like Wendy who takes their talent and makes it a skill.

[@GregorioPerezDree]

Fandom focuses too much on visuals; most of their biases are based on how beautiful or handsome the idol is, never on how talented they are.

[@Bangch4nslaptop]

I think some of my favorite naturally talented vocalists combined with skill are: -rosé -ningning -sullyoon -taemin -haewon -Seungmin -Han -Jungkook -Liz -keeho

[@sebastianswork]

Oh gosh. I am not subscribing anymore. You only talk about healthy and unhealthy technique in every single video. I'm tired, I'm leaving.

[@riahlexington]

Uhh this isn’t an airport, you don’t have to announce your departure

[@emanueltheodorus1056]

If we're going to talk skilled vocalists I absolutely believed Seungmin is one. He has rhe talent and potential at rhe beginning but clearly was rather lacking compared to SKZ's previous main vocalist. When he's out and Seungmin was pushed forward, its honestly amazing on how much he have improved since then. Among the most naturally talented vocalists has to be Gunwook of ZB1. Like he has the position of being the main rapper/lead dancer yet he has vocal talent that would make him a main vocalist if he was in another boy group other than ZB1 who is already full of it, and on top of that he is only 18 years of age and has the potential to go far.

[@luvrinas]

gunwook is main dancer material tbh if you look at facts in fiction 's analyses on rookie groups he ranks very high

[@AdiPumbaKings]

5th gen bgs ranking when? there are a ton of capable boygroup vocalists nowadays. u got seungeon from evnne (my personal fave) jaehee from nct wish, hao and taerae from zb1, sohee from riize, i also heard boynextdoor are stable live singers

[@abcd-pj1bp]

There are actually very few artist who are gifted with vocal Talent and also develop vocal skill. Some famous examples are rose, rami Jung kook ningning. These are the perfect combination of both very rare to find

[@NingKook000]

how about a video of talented idols but who lacks on skills ex: Jimin, Yeji, Jennie ect...

[@Bangch4nslaptop]

Ngl only yeji in this list is naturally talented vocalist

[@yd3216]

@@Bangch4nslaptop Jimin also fits because he was a much better vocalist back in the day but due to a lack of skill he has regressed.

[@starpoopthere]

I think the only one that doesn't belong to this list is jimin ​@@Bangch4nslaptop

[@ABIGAIListhis95]

Jimin & Jennie 💀💀

[@camilamc-gm1cu]

​​@@yd3216jimin has never been a good vocalist lmfao

[@mariaromano7481]

Sadly we can say that nowadays there are so few ídols singing as the ones in the video. 4th gen ídols are as products done for visual appearance only. My ultimate vocal is KIHYUN (MX)

[@D.Ogodsz]

And he's overrated as well

[@BreakMyPlate]

lol a video blabbering for 9 and half mins ….