Voepass

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[@islandwatch]

Better than the news. Thank you.

[@sjpeckham1]

agree. CBS affiliate had useless commentary by worthless commentators; completely embarrassing. Great work Juan

[@Cmunic8]

@@sjpeckham1the media doesn’t generally devote a lot of time to a single topic because there are many. However, we have experts who do specialize in these types of topics and do videos for us…see the difference 🤷‍♂️

[@jamescollier3]

my dog pooped; the poop is better than the news (not to take away from this great channel)

[@biffburley1]

CNN’s coverage was actually very good considering. If I want something more detailed I come here, or other KZbinrs.

[@bruhdabones]

Crazy seeing you here! Big fan of you and Teddy and all the other watch guys :)

[@hanibalmoon794]

37 years ago, same aircraft type (Aero Trasporti Italiani Flight 460, ATR 42-312, 15 October 1987) encountered severe icing conditions by trying to cross the Swiss alps South-North. Loss of control, everyone perished. At the very same time I was in command of a Saab 340B, flying North-South attempting to cross Swiss Alps at FL170. MSA 14500. Due to severe icing SIGMET we approached the alps at cruise FL. From normal flight to severe icing in less than 1 minute, max continuous power needed to maintain save icing airspeed and still 1500 feet rod. Immediately 180° turn back Zurich, just made it with about 1500 feet terrain clearance and radar vectoring assistance. Upon landing big junks of ice falling off the tail of the aircraft. Luck, planning and swift positive reaction saved the day. RIP all victims.

[@markjennings2315]

Good call. The only place you can be sure there isnt icing conditions is where you just flew before the icing conditions. Everywhere else is just a guess.

[@kevinhornbuckle]

Thank you for telling your experience.

[@igorluiz9551]

Wow, I'm glad you were able to return safe and sound. How's the feeling when the plane starts to lose lift?

[@GadjoDrom]

Incredible story, good decisive decision making.

[@ehsnils]

@@igorluiz9551 I'd expect that the loss of control sneaks up on you so it's not until "something feels wrong" you realize what's going on. The autopilot might be able to be enhanced to have early detection of those conditions if it can detect slow changes in the behavior between input and response, but it would take a lot to make such a smart autopilot including dangerous test flights.

[@adrianor.passarelli8127]

A Blancolirio fan here from Brazil! Thanks Juan for approaching thIs situation professionally and sensibly, as always. Commercial aviation community in Brazil have been proud for the 17 years record without any fatal accidents. Saddly the counter have been set to zero today. RIP all passengers amd crew.

[@gregbroburg7351]

Brazil had a midair collision of a 737 and an Embraer. As I recall this was not very long ago. I met a fellow whose cousin was in the air traffic control at the time. The comment was that ATC may have been experimenting to see the collision avoidance system work.

[@JPM90046]

@@gregbroburg7351that was in 2006, hence his comment about 17 years without any fatal accidents. Sucks getting old, right? Time really does fly…

[@eliomarlacerda2364]

​@@gregbroburg7351 Way back in 2007. The mid air collision was because the Legacy pilots turn the transponder off and stop comunication with respective ATC and algo because they were in wrong flight level

[@gregbroburg7351]

@@JPM90046 Yes, it does not seem to me that it was that long ago. Yes, time does fly.

[@Brotha00]

RIP to those lost. 🇧🇷

[@texas737pilot]

Former ATR driver here. The most likely issue here is icing. It is a fantastic aircraft, but it doesn’t like ice. Remember American Eagle 4184 that crashed in Roselawn? This may make the 5th ATR to crash because of icing.

[@douglaswhitcomb9729]

I was flying King Air 200s and 350 at the time of the Roselawn accident. As I remember, the FAA instituted several safety measures for most turboprop aircraft and operations regarding encountering severe icing. FSI also implemented training scenarios for icing during recurrent training.

[@stevenhorney7735]

I was on that ATR just 2 weeks before that crash.

[@augustineidiaghe9259]

God rest their souls 🙏 🙏

[@LopezzT]

Brother, I flew in this EXACT plane a while ago. While I do know that icing is the most plausible explanation at the moment, I can tell you this: the plane seemed like it was falling apart. It shook VIOLENTLY during the whole flight, felt like it was holding together with prayers and silver tape, and it didn’t have any air conditioning. So much so that the return flight was cancelled due to mechanical issues, and they had to send us by bus from Ribeirão Preto to Campinas to board another flight. While no accidents happened before with Voepass (former Passaredo), it’s infamy is so great that their nickname is “PASSAMEDO” (feel fear). Everybody and their mother knew they would eventually kill someone with this plane, and they finally did. It made me sick to my stomach when I heard the news yesterday. RIP to all those poor souls.

[@gabrielroque6664]

If this becomes the 5th ATR crash caused by icing I wonder how they are still allowed to fly this metal prison around.

[@helianocabral9832]

I happen to live some 18 miles from the accident site. One fact that is relevant: Sometime before the crash a pilot on a Latam Airbus 320 flying in the same region called Sao Paulo Approach Control (the accident site is within Sao Paulo TMA) and reported heavy icing, saying that his side window was completely covered with rime ice. The ATR was performing a Standard Arrival (STAR) towards Sao Paulo's Guarulhos airport. This accident reminds me of another accident that happened in the US 30 years ago in Roselawn with an American Eagle ATR 72-200.

[@davidmorris1536]

I vividly remember the Eagle Flight crash in Indiana. I was a controller at CGX and remember approach calling me and asking me to transmit in the blind to try and establish contact with the aircraft.

[@INOD-2]

@@davidmorris1536 Meigs Field! Were you still working there when Chicago's Mayor Daley had the runway bulldozed in the middle of the night, thus destroying the airport overnight with no warning? As I recall, there were several planes stuck on the ground with no runway, so they had to use the taxiway to take off and get out of there. Sounded like a Mob operation, for sure. Chicago politics---hey, stuff happens!

[@JimmysSpeedShop]

Ouch

[@theav8r_454]

as soon as I saw the video of the flat spin, i immediately thought of severe icing and thought back to that Roselawn Eagle ATR crash. If American moved their ATR operations to basically out of Miami, and San Juan only as a result of the crash, that makes you wonder if the ATR was capable for cold weather flying. Shame these pilots and passengers perished, but mother nature seldom loses, they could have done everything right up until the stall and spin. More than likely severe icing on the tail pushed the nose up ever so slightly and the plane bled airspeed so quick that the pilots may not have been able to react to that pitching and buffet roll/yaw motion and so it went into the spin.

[@helianocabral9832]

Yes, you brought up an important point: ice on the horizontal tail, which can make the aircraft uncontrollable. As for Miami and San Juan, remember that there is icing above those places too - temperature drops 3.6deg F per 1000ft. Therefore at 17000ft the temperature is roughly 60 degree F below the one at sea level.

[@HotTakeHQ]

When anything serious happens in the aviation world, you don’t turn on the news to see what they say about it. You turn to Juan to see how he’s organized all of that existing information for you. Premier KZbin content for us. Thank you sir for all you do

[@marytygett4189]

Exactly .

[@davecrupel2817]

I turn to Juan for immediate news. And in a few months, or few years, I'll turn to Mentour for the full in-depth breakdown. Hopefully for something new that can be learned from it.

[@jaredjones6292]

Agreed! Heard about the tragedy on CNN. They immediately got one of their political reporters to give a brief description and then turned to Richard Quest, a financial dude, because he once rode in the cabin of the Malaysian aircraft the disappeared. I shut off my television and have been waiting for Jaun.

[@wickedcabinboy]

@@MrS7629 - Dan Gryder is a mess. I quit watching him many months ago when he went on a political rant and declared that anyone who disagreed could unsubscribe and that he doesn't need the viewers. I was happy to oblige.

[@merlingt1]

Absolutely

[@pilotoheli]

Being from Brazil myself, I was very concerned about the comments here. Usually, we hear some "intense" words related to aviation. I appreciate you guys respecting the situation and the loss of so many lives. Thanks as well to Juan for analyzing the data and not judging the country.

[@tedsaylor6016]

Brazil makes some fine aircraft, they are a respected Aerospace country. As well as machine tools.

[@pilotoheli]

@tedsaylor6016 Thanks for the words. I currently live in America, but it is always nice to hear something nice about where we came from.

[@kukuc96]

Negligence doesn't know borders. Any nationality pilot can fly into severe icing they knew or should have known about. Many did in the past, it's likely more will in the future unfortunately.

[@pilotoheli]

@@kukuc96 indeed. The only thing that is left is learning with this...

[@Secretlyanothername]

I liked how he did not show the seconds of impact, because it is not relevant to the actual reasons for the crash. That felt respectful for me

[@mariarasmussen4951]

In a flat spin from 16000 ft/4800 meters up is terrifying to think about. My condolences to the victims and their families.

[@manikyum]

Did you work as cabin crew Maria?

[@olasek7972]

@@manikyum did she have to?

[@mariarasmussen4951]

@@manikyum no I have never worked in aviation :) but I fly quite often.

[@LJS01]

"My condolences to the victims" yeah I'm sure they're watching

[@andrew5184]

@@LJS01WTF is this?! Do they have to be for someone to offer that particular configuration of words? Geez I wish people had shred of decency or a conscience. Social media brings out the worst in humanity.

[@smark1180]

Reported: PS-VPB, the aircraft which crashed in near Vinhedo, São Paulo on Friday, received substantial structural damage in March when it's tail contacted the runway surface while landing in Salvador. The aircraft was ferried to Voepass' maintenance facilities in Ribeirao Preto and remained there until July 9th 2024. On the first route when it returned to service there was a depressurization in flight and the ATR returned to Ribeirão Preto, where it remained grounded for another four days for repairs. On July 13, the aircraft finally resumed operations, until it crashed last Friday.

[@Tazjet100]

Correct, PS VPB returned to service with inadequate repairs because the airline was insolvent. The aircraft suffered persistent hydraulic failures since July. LOW Hydraulic pressure automatically triggers HOTEL mode and brakes the propeller.

[@nataliafernandes2943]

I am Brazilian and the crash has been on the news all day. Thank you for organizing the information and explaining what might have happened in such a professional and respectful way.

[@Tazjet100]

As a Brazilian please explain why ANAC (Brazilian Commercial Aeronautical Regulatory Agency granted the airline exceptional authorization not to record on the FDR (on the black boxes) data for 8 indicators, which definitely affect the reconstruction of the crash? Among the unrecorded data were: “Frequencies selected in Nav 1 and Nav 2 Brake pressure (selected system) Brake pedal application (right & left) Hydraulic pressure (each system) Pitch trim control position in cockpit Roll trim control position in cockpit Steering trim control position in cockpit All cockpit flight control forces (steering wheel, column, and pedals)” The exception was conceded twice for VoePass, first in 2020 for 3 years and more recently, in 2023 for 18 months. Would you agree the safety regulator knew this aircraft was un-airworthy? That it had persistent hydraulics failures.

[@Alanc419]

I know that in this modern time, we’re exposed to accidents and news stories where people lose their lives in aviation accidents / incidents. We discuss and analyze these accidents in the hopes that learnings and possibly improvements in safety or at the least an awareness can come out of these incidents. But seeing the video of this ATR in a fully developed stall / spin and hearing the audio of the engines really hits hard. As a licensed pilot and a human being, I truly feel sadness / empathy / sympathy for these people and their loved ones. Thank you Juan for providing this channel and your valuable content.

[@tammygilmore6931]

I feel the same. Especially since they had at least a minute of free fall before impact.

[@robpederson281]

Tell me big brother isn't listening when we have real time data the day off. Rip passengers

[@igorluiz9551]

I've never had fear of flying and usually plane accidents don't affect me (expect Flight 3054, that's was tough). But this one hits me differently. To see a plane dropping like a leaf, knowing the people inside would die and likely there was nothing the pilots could do in such a short time, gets to me. My heart goes to them

[@tedoptional-p8l]

@@tammygilmore6931 This most likely was a completely avoidable accident, weather related but human caused by not understanding what the conditions meant. At 17,000 ft it is likely that they had enough time to cut the power and tuck the nose down to get out of the spin, or possibly they could have come down to a higher temperature. They might have gotten so much ice (in as little as 2 minutes!) that they could not recover, it has happened before. I don't know if it is possible to reduce the power on the outboard engine to correct the spin. Sorry to blame the flight crew.

[@jakerabinz9411]

The ATR s have a long history and glaring defect of unsuitable for flying in icing conditions several years ago one plummeted into a residential neighborhood from much lower altitude in Buffalo NY. All on board died, and several on the ground. The investigation indicated the wing design is such that clear ice quickly accumulates behind the de- incing boots, and the AC quickly stalls and drops like a rock. The well known air carrier with a fleet of several, completely removed them from flying in northern winter weather markets. And only flying them in southern markets. So sadly, those that don't pay attention to history are doomed to repeat it. The mistake is the utilizing a known killer plane in icing conditions. That flight should never have been made with that plane in those upper level saturated conditions. Solution is to not fly those in such conditions, put it right back down on the ground IMMEDIATELY. To the living DO NOT GET ON THAT PLANE IN THOSE CONDITIONS. To the families and friends of the deceased, condolences. To the victims , Rest In Peace. In my lay opinion of fligjt, this accident should not have happened. The lethality of this aircraft in such conditions is well known. Somebody made a very reckless decision to use it in those weather conditions.

[@itsmebatman]

Jeeze, that is scary. Within seconds this turned from a normal cruising flight into an unrecoverable disaster. And then the people inside had to sit in an aircraft falling out of the sky for over a minute. Nightmare fuel.

[@philblinkhorn8304]

Living in Northern Europe where icing at the levels ATRs use can occur at any time, after the American Eagle crash in Illinois some years ago and reading about the measures taken to mitigate the aircraft's susceptibility to ice, which were palliative at best, I decided that no way would I fly on any ATR.

[@johnhanson1st]

My brain is struggling to understand how it went immediately from flying to falling. It is spooky.

[@leopoldbuttersstotch73]

@@johnhanson1stHe literally explained it.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@empireoflizards]

@@leopoldbuttersstotch73 Icing isn't confirmed yet but it does make the most sense at this point.

[@SledDriver1]

There was a SIGMET issued for severe icing between FL120 and FL210 in the Brasilia FIR at the time.

[@billythekid3234]

Oh my goodness that's painting a terrible picture.

[@marytygett4189]

Oh my goodness . Thanks for sharing that

[@tommcglone2867]

Oh no. OH NO. Not again. Roselawn all over again.

[@user-nu1sq2fz8s]

​@tommcglone2867 I thought the same- icing

[@MorarnaEspanhaeEuropa]

According to the Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program Brazil has one of the best levels of air safety in the world. Before today, it had been 17 years since the last accident in Brazilian commercial aviation.

[@thiagoklohn2103]

Blancolirio, I'm a former A32F F/O, here in Brazil, and that's not the first time, here, that a ATR-72 stalls and enters into a spin due to severe icing condition. Luckily, in the other case (I don't recall if the aircraft was from Trip or Azul Airline), the pilots were able to recover from the spin at a very low altitude.

[@felipealex991]

Nao sei como ate agora nao foram procurar o piloto que quase caiu na Bahia em 2013, acho que era da Trip. Pra ele explicar o que aconteceu e como conseguiu sair desse Flat Stol.

[@alistairplank4996]

@@felipealex991 Esta é a primeira vez que ouço isso! Eu também quero ouvir o relato dele. Deus estava com ele!

[@felipealex991]

@@alistairplank4996 pelo jeito o piloto nao vai querer admitir que errou pra entrar em parafuso, mesmo depois de conseguir reverter a situaçao e retomar o controle do aviao..

[@traditionalgirl3943]

Blancolirio was whom I turned to immediately upon finding out about this crash. Juan Browne is “The Man” for intelligent, knowledgeable, practical, compassionate, understandable, dependable explanations. Thank you for that!

[@StanfordJohnsey]

" . . . was who I turned to immediately . . . "

[@markbowles2382]

He is definitely "The man" for sure...

[@desmond-hawkins]

You might want to learn the name of this channel since you clearly praise it so much (deservedly so!). It is *not* "Broncolerio", and doesn't even have "bronco" or "lerio" in its name.

[@traditionalgirl3943]

@@desmond-hawkinsblancolirio - Thank you much for the correction. It won’t happen again.👍😊😁🩵

[@pilotinho320]

Ice played a role here, besides the SIGMET at the area showing severe icing between FL120 and FL210, there were several pilot reports of icing in the São Paulo approach area, including the accident aircraft apparently. Some reported hearing them on frequency requesting to descend due to icing and the approach controller saying negative for some reason, then they just informed they were descending. Also a friend of mine said that he’s seen ice in the leading edge of an A320 for the first time in his career today, when arriving in São Paulo. Sad day to aviation, RIP passengers and crew. Thank you, Juan, for always keeping us informed in such a clever and respectful manner.

[@kenbrown2808]

if that's accurate, that's going to bite the controller. (by which I'm not challenging it, just respecting that it's not official, yet.) hopefully the recorders are intact, so the aviation world can learn from the incident.

[@kkfoto]

So far there is no evidence of them contacting ATC about icing or altitude change.

[@igorluiz9551]

there is no evidence so far of any contact with the ATC about it, I wouldn't trust this info without some evidence. The ATC in SP is top notch, this is very unlikely

[@hugosantana7253]

@@igorluiz9551 there was another aircraft flying nearby, crossing the ATR path. That's probably why the descent was not allowed. Anyway, we will know more next month with the preliminary report.

[@igorluiz9551]

@@hugosantana7253 but there is no evidence that the pilot demanded it to the ATC and it was denied, what are you talking about?

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

VMC stall/spin has to be the worst way to go. RIP to the victims. Condolences to the families.

[@Secretlyanothername]

A minute of terror

[@virgilhilts3924]

THis had nothing to do with VMC

[@nbenford1837]

@@virgilhilts3924They probably meant that those onboard could see what was happening and about to happen.

[@lebojay]

Inflight breakup is at the top of my list.

[@christopherzhao3135]

Approach to stall?

[@wizardmix]

So sad.. My wife showed me the video and the first thing I told her was that you would be on the case. You always bring such rational and well-informed input to these situations and I greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

[@consortiumxf]

It was originally reported as 62 fatalities but was corrected to 61 because someone who was supposed to be on the flight missed it (unknown if intentionally or accidentally). I can't imagine how that individual is feeling right now. Healing energy to everyone.

[@LopezzT]

10 people lost this flight due to a boarding gate confusion. Talk about luck.

[@eduardogiachero2601]

Number of fatalities corrected again to 62, 58 PAX 4 crew.

[@jorge_781]

The number back to 62 again. It was a passenger list issue.

[@bradcoddington1679]

No such thing as luck that was GOD ordained ​@@LopezzT

[@DanieKoch]

​@@bradcoddington1679amen

[@joey4542]

The location of the crash in Vinhedo happens to be the exact point on previous flights where they typically began their descent into São Paulo. This suggests a change in configuration of the plane at that time. As autopilot was certainly on, the pilots were probably not aware of how out of trim the plane was and how close they were to stalling. Also from the ADS-B flight track, you can see the plane first made a slight right turn at the same time as the initial descent, followed by a sudden turn to the left and then a rapid altitude gain and sudden drop in airspeed. This suggests the left wing stalled first, and then the pilots fighting to correct the drop by pulling up on the nose. Another clue is the ADS-B airspeed data was quite erratic throughout the flight suggesting a possible pitot tube malfunction. It’s possible they were actually flying slower than they thought they were.

[@mike73ng]

I saw the headline and mentioned it to my First Officer today and the first thing she said was, “icing?” I said I didn’t know. But find it interesting the first thing she thought of was ice. I’m not going to be surprised if ice played a part in the accident.

[@klesmer]

She might have hit the nail on the head. ATR have a history of falling out of the sky because of icing conditions. May God have mercy on the poor souls who lost their lives.

[@captaintoyota3171]

​@klesmer yup i remembered this atr 72 from mayday show

[@yogib37]

First time I saw that video I said it is in a flat spin, cant get out of that. I did not think of Icing.

[@Moose6340]

Thinking about that American Eagle flight over Illinois (I think) many years back, although I think that was an ATR-42. That one was an accelerated stall but not a flat spin if I remember correctly. I think that crash was what caused American to get rid of their ATRs that were flying in colder climes and restrict them to the Caribbean.

[@davecrupel2817]

Definitely can make one-wing stalls. :(

[@TheAussiePipe]

These ATR aircraft have a long history of forming ice ridges behind the leading edge of the wings and behind the boots. They are banned from flying in known icing conditions in Australia.

[@wadepatton2433]

Thanks for that tidbit of relevant information.

[@marytygett4189]

Interesting

[@TootSocialTV]

I believe it was Greg Feith, a retired NTSB investigator, who first discovered this runback ice ridge in super cooled drizzle droplets on the ATR investigating the crash of one in Chicago.

[@TheAussiePipe]

@@TootSocialTV absolutely correct 👍

[@alabamared2568]

And I just checked sigmet warned for Significant icing between FLs 120-200 ft it was noted conditions in and around the airport!!!

[@notaturtle561]

I appreciate the respect in showing the accident, just what happened and not showing the impact

[@abp5428]

One of the best reviews by far. I've watched many accident videos before, including unedited footage, but this one was truly one of the worst. Not the fall itself or aftermatch, but the milliseconds of silence after the aircraft hits the ground, between the engine sound stopping and the abrupt noise of fuselage cracking like a can, nothing loud or exploding, just a second where you know many lives were gone.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed.

[@bee19941205]

Blancolirio, i just wanna say i am a huge fan of your work. as a pilot myself the first thing i wanna do when i hear news of any accidents is to quickly know that if i am susceptible to the same mistakes and keep the memory fresh (official accident report could take months). you are taking the immediate accident report to a new level where no one else on the news on youtube have even come close. salute to you sir.

[@MorarnaEspanhaeEuropa]

According to the Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program Brazil has one of the best levels of air safety in the world. Before today, it had been 17 years since the last accident in Brazilian commercial aviation.

[@wallacemjr]

Yes, the fact that Embraer is from Brazil helps to increase safety since we must have proportionally more people with knowledge in the area.

[@randomscb-40charger78]

Actually 15 years, there was an Embraer 110 that crashed in the Amazon River after an engine failure. The crew attempted to ditch but it ended with most losing their lives. It was later revealed that the plane was carrying more passengers than the max capacity limit set out by authorities.

[@dougtaylor7724]

That’s impressive for such a vast area.

[@beenaplumber8379]

@@wallacemjr Boeing could learn a lot from Embraer. You know, Boeing is in a weakened condition right now. It might be time for Embraer to move into larger passenger aircraft. ijs...

[@danilodistefanis5990]

Typical Brazilian comment. All the corruption in your country and lack of of transparency give you those made up numbers. Stop trying to pretend you’re Norway 🤣

[@TotalAnomy]

That speed table is unbelievable, from 209 knots to 39 in like 20 seconds. What a nightmare

[@PapaG603]

Man puts knots in my stomach everytime i watch the video. Can only image the poor passengers n crew. May their memory be Eternal🙏 thanks JB for breaking this tragedy down.

[@markjennings2315]

Bless this crew and their passengers, a truely sad and awful incident. In my early flying career I flew turbo props around UK/Europe and became all to familiar with icing condition operations, constantly scanning for the tell-tale airspeed decay and checking leading edges was etched into my psyche. I benefitted immensely from flying with captains who had been doing this all their careers and the wealth of experience they had. To a man they were probably more focused and on their top game when icing threatend than any other stage of a flight. Watching how fast and severely icing can build up on a wings leading edge is a thing to behold. Mis-timing the inflating of the boots can easily instigate a very serious situation. Knowing the correct time to inflate the boot and break off the ice is easily one of the most crucial transfers of skills an experienced piolt can give to a colleague. Changing level up or down is essential to get out of the danger zone. Getting into a flat spin is virtually impossible to recover from, to do so in IFR is a nightmare. We will have to wait for the flight data recorders to know what led to this, and then try to learn from it.

[@rafaelbabuja]

It's unbelievable that this happened, it was very fast, in the last image at 9:29 we could see how fast it was. As a lover in aviation, I have already flown exactly in this ATR-72 Maritaca (Voepass names its planes with bird names) and honestly it was a quiet experience, from Ribeirão Preto to Guarulhos, at the beginning of the year. It is a stab in the chest to see a news of this mainly next to the house, with colleagues. Thank you for the video, God comfort the hearts of families.

[@tatsboolean]

One of the best channels on KZbin. Truly what people hoped the internet would provide.

[@nayon9379]

🌴THE GOSPEL OF THE WORD OF ALMIGHTY GOD "the Salvation of the last day that Christ brought the second and last incarnation of His new and holy name" (You used to want to rule as kings, and now you have to turn away. Can He lead people down to the eternal abyss? Now, the important thing is that you have to know the spirit of man, and you have to know if what you must enter into; you must talk about entering into life, and how to be truly overcome, and how to obey God completely, how to obey unto death. You may say that you are overcome, but obey In the end, you must have the two aspects of Job's testimony--the testimony of Peter--the ultimate love of God. You must be like Job of his possessions, and was tormented by the sickness of the body, but he did not forsake the name of Jehovah. This is the testimony of Job. When he was crucified and faced his death, he was loved He is still God; he did not think of his own hopes or desire good hopes or luxurious thoughts and he only sought to love God and follow all God's plans: That is the basis you must have before you can be considered a witness, before you can be a man who became perfect after being defeated. God's work today is for our disposition to change and for us to rid ourselves of Satan's influence, to allow us to be born in the land of impurity and thus to rid ourselves of the impurity, to shake off Satan's filth and infection, to turn away this.) Almighty God said You once aspired to rule as kings, and now you must turn away can He lead men down to the eternal abyss? NOW, the IMPORTANT thing is that you MUST KNOW THE SPIRIT OF MAN, and you MUST KNOW WHAT you must ENTER; you need to talk about ENTERING LIFE, and CHANGING DISPOSITION, HOW TO REALLY CONQUER, and HOW TO COMPLETELY FOLLOW GOD, HOW TO FOLLOW UNTIL DEATH. 🏵️ You need to focus on these things, and those that are not realistic or important must first be set aside and let go. Now, you must know how to be defeated, and how people act after they are defeated.. ☀️ You can say you're overpowered, but can you FOLLOW UNTIL death? You MUST FOLLOW UNTIL THE LAST if there is any HOPE, and you SHOULD NOT LOSE FAITH in GOD regardless of the situation. Ultimately, you MUST GET TWO ASPECTS of TESTIMONY: JOB'S TESTIMONY---OBEDIENCE UNTIL DEATH; and PETER'S TESTIMONY---the ULTIMATE LOVE of GOD. You have to be LIKE JOB: He lost all his possessions, and was tormented by physical pain, but he DID NOT FORSAKE JEHOVAH'S NAME. This is the TESTIMONY of JOB. PEDRO was able to LOVE GOD to DEATH.🙏🌹 When he was CRUCIFIED and FACED his DEATH, he still LOVED GOD; He DOESN'T THINK OF HIS OWN WISHES or DESIRES GOOD HOPE or GREAT ATTITUDE and he ONLY WANTS to LOVE GOD and FOLLOW ALL THE PLANSof GOD: THAT IS THE BASIS YOU NEED TO GET BEFORE YOU CAN BE CONSIDERED WITNESSING, BEFORE YOU BECOME A PERFECT PERSON AFTER CONQUERING.🌷🙏🌹 Now, if people really know their own Spirit and status, will they still want hopes and hopes? This is what you should know: GOD'S WORK NOW is SO THAT OUR DISPOSITION WILL CHANGE and we CAN REMOVE SATAN'S INFLUENCE FROM OURSELVES, to allow us to be born in the land of impurity and thus remove the impurity from ourselves, to DESTROY THE DIRT and SATAN'S INFLUENCE, to AVOID it. 🙏 From "The WORD Appears in the Flesh" Holy book Fulfillment of (John 1:1) and (Ezekiel 2:9-10), (Rev. 19:9,13) 📥 Christ's fulfillment of His establishment of the kingdom that was brought down from heaven that carved the holy, and totality and disposition of His name "THE CHURCH OF ALMIGHTY GOD" 💐. The prophecy He fulfilled "And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and even the power of death will not prevail against it." (Mat. 16:18). ... And the Epistle to the church of Philadelphia "I will make him who overcomes a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never be removed from it. I will engrave on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God , the NEW JERUSALEM that will come down from heaven. I will also engrave on him my NEW NAME. ... And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Write this : From now on, blessed are those who serve the Lord until death!" "Truly," said the Spirit. "They will rest from their labor; for their works will follow them." (Rev. 14:13). ... "And I was told the number of those who were sealed--144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel." They SAY TOGETHER, "SALVATION is from the LAMB, and to our God who is ON THE THRONE!" One of the elders asked me, "Who are the people dressed in white, and where did they come from?" "I don't know," I replied. "You know. ." And he said to me, "They are the ones who prevailed despite severe persecution. They cleansed and made their clothes white in the blood of the Lamb. Because the Lamb in the middle of the throne will be their PASTOR. He will bring them to the fountains of life-giving water; and God will wipe the tears from their eyes." They triumphed over the Devil through the blood of the Lamb and their testimony to the truth; they did not regret their lives. (Rev 7:4,10,13-14,17 ).... They sing a new song before the Throne, and the four living creatures, and the twenty-four elders. No one understands that song but the 144,000 redeemed in the world. This men who had no relation to women. They followed the Lamb wherever he went. They were redeemed from all mankind. They never lied them any fault (Rev. 14:3-5). All are leading here! It stands in the holy place in the sky /KZbin🔝

[@merhbass]

That Google Earth data layover is simply harrowing. A damn brick. Pit-in-stomach dread just looking at it.

[@jamescollier3]

2.5 min down

[@JP-xd6fm]

@@jamescollier3 I wonder if there's any way of open the emergency door and jump out of it, I mean if you will die at least try something maybe you land in soft roofs or something and can survive, but if you're trap in the plane there's 0 chance when the plane is in free falling

[@FlightX101]

@@JP-xd6fm No. 1 The plane is pressurized so Its impossible to open any door. 2. Youll hit the ground at 100+mph. .....you are not surviving any impact

[@esin.c]

@@FlightX101how do people jump with parachutes from planes w their door open(I seriously have no idea)

[@CruceEntertainment]

The inside pressure is equal to the outside air as it gets closer, so it would be easier to open the door.

[@PAA2FLY]

As a former airline pilot that flew all around Brazil, my heart is pained with the crash of the ATR. Flying Brazil is very challenging and watching that ATR in a flat spin is painful to watch. prayers to the crew prayers to the passengers. This is very upsetting. 

[@stevethomas-cc5lz]

ive flown before myslf but how can a plane go from 241 mph to 41 mph in the blink of and eye and drop straight down ? its like there was no air at all.

[@mikhailjairnisbett441]

@@stevethomas-cc5lz As a pilot, I think that control was lost and the airplane probably pitched up and stalled the wing right away, explaining the slight climb and extreme loss of airspeed. I suspect that it then immediately entered the spin.

[@stevethomas-cc5lz]

@@mikhailjairnisbett441 i thought about it for a bit. I think your right.

[@TickleFight94]

@@stevethomas-cc5lzI believe it was 207 kts and that was ground speed, not IAS. In a clean configuration with severe icing impacting effective AOA of the wing, entering a stall/spin at that airspeed is very plausible. Also, the stall warnings may not have been triggered prior to entering the spin as icing increased the stall speed.

[@stevethomas-cc5lz]

@@TickleFight94 point taken

[@BaZoOKeT]

Obrigado por explicar tão detalhadamente. O Brasil está triste.

[@adrianwilliams763]

I can recall,flying as a passenger in an ATR72 with Air New Zealand into Queenstown (NZQN) some years ago. I was appalled at how quickly the ice accumulated on the airframe and props. And then infernal noise as the ice is shed from the props and hits the fuselage side. Quite alarming.

[@GlideYNRG]

Have been in a EMB-120 Brasilia in Western Australia watching the ice build up and eventually shed off the props. Dents along the proparc on the fuselage. Wasn't nice sitting inside at the time.

[@geraldo209]

If im not mistaken, ATR airplanes have had problems with icing before. rip. Fatalities number is wrong. 61 total. Not 62. Acording to voe pas. Brazilian 737 driver here, and i flew over that area today, and severe icing was reported and we did get ice during our descent. Rip to all, rip brave aviators whom im sure fought all the way to the end.

[@KILLDOZER2]

official information: 61 dead. 1 of the passengers arrived late and was prevented (by employees) from entering the aircraft, he saved himself, otherwise 62 would have been killed

[@NicolaW72]

@@KILLDOZER2 He had his second Birthday.

[@jonkje]

​@Falta_Pouco that is one scary twist of faith...

[@jonkje]

@Falta_Pouco apparently 62 according to latest update. Technical issues resulted in his name not being on the list.

[@NicolaW72]

@@jonkje Yes, I readed the same.

[@jimosborne2]

As a former commuter airline pilot ( turboprops) I would invite Juan to explain to his listeners and viewers how difficult it is to see ice forming on your wings in IFR conditions or at night. (And as to ice on the T tail, it’s impossible obviously to see it.

[@consortiumxf]

Anyone who has watched the Mayday episode about the crash in Roselawn understands that it's difficult to see ice on the wings, but I definitely think this is a great topic for a video here too.

[@Markle2k]

That is why the instructions are for things that the pilots *can* see, such as ice forming on the windows *behind* the heated windows. Pause the video and read what is provided . It fills in the gaps.

[@jakerabinz9411]

@@jimosborne2 Exactly the reason why when supersaturated air is present in higher altitudes. YOU NEVER, EVER, EVER FLY ATR A/C INTO THAT. GUARANTEED DEATH

[@chris22capt]

Actually on the ATR, they put a small wing just under the captain's side window. If there is ice buildup on it, then you definitely have ice on the wings too.

[@blite2847]

High tech ice detection system on the B737....Windshield wiper bolt. Also, it's great for taxing on the centerline.

[@Citroeniste]

ATR-72 + Severe Icing + Autopilot Engaged = potentially deadly combination. May their souls rest in peace. Condolences to the families of the victims.

[@alexhajnal107]

A directive to hand-fly the type when in known icing conditions might be in order.

[@charron1]

@@alexhajnal107 Why can't they turn Anti Ice on for few minutes before disengaging AP?

[@alexhajnal107]

@@charron1 The ATR series has a known issue where ice can build up behind (downwind from) the de-icing boots. This can cause a ridge of ice to build up that can't be removed.

[@kidf22]

One of the most infamous accidents with the ATR was American Airlines flight 4184. One of the causes was icing. My dad had been a controller with the FAA at one of the ARTCC facilities involved but not his sector. He said he remembered after that most of the ATRs that were flying passengers mostly moved to the southern US in the winter months. If my memory serves me correctly, almost half of ATR fatal accidents were from icing. I used to deal with ATRs on the cargo side and I didn't have much complaints against them. Pilots didn't seem to mind them. Prayers to the families of those who's lives were lost.

[@alphakky]

American Eagle 4184 didn't go into a flat spin.

[@kidf22]

@@alphakky correct which is why I didn't explicitly say it was the cause nor did I list any cause. Just sharing extra facts especially since Mr. Juan pointed out icing. I always stress to people about letting the experts investigating do their jobs out of respect for them and the lives lost. One of the greatest tributes we can do to those who lost their lives is learn any lessons the investigation discovers and do our best to ensure their loss wasn't in vain. Apologies if it sounded like I was armchair quarterbacking.

[@skyboy1956]

@@alphakky Even worse, it was a split "S" and they airline was Simmons, d.b.a. American Eagle

[@marcondespaulo]

This is a sad afternoon in Brazil. My friends were all discussing the accident, the reported icing conditions. Thanks Juan for the timely, concise report. One thing I heard on another channel was regarding the anti-ice system on the ATR-72 being a bit too simplistic.

[@Alanc419]

Omg, this is so saddening. Rest In Peace crew and passengers.

[@Turd_Furgeson]

Lost a classmate in Roselawn Indiana on an ATR that lost due to icing.

[@robertgates2769]

That was an American Eagle flight. If I recall it wasn't long after that the domestic carriers sent those planes to warmer climates in exchange for the regional jets we see today as they were concerned about the anti icing devices on the front of the wings not functioning correctly.

[@consortiumxf]

@@robertgates2769 Correct - also thanks to the mass attention brought to the issue by whistle-blower pilot who literally printed out fliers and passed them around to raise awareness of the danger regarding icing on those aircraft. One of the pilots of that flight was a good friend of his and he was rightfully upset.

[@Suncast45]

A Dentist at the VA where I worked was called upon to help identify many of the victims of the Roselawn Accident. I think all the remaining ATR 72's should be scrapped!

[@peteparadis1619]

Anyone with a brain watching that Mayday episode and the disregard the French engineers had for that icing scenario would agree..

[@Turd_Furgeson]

@@robertgates2769 I went to high school with the experienced flight attendant and her younger brother. Great people.

[@ryanwest2825]

In Canada they trained us so much on icing for the PPL and it scares the sh*t out of me. My significant other has spent hours with a flashlight at night watching the wings even with a large spread and no known conditions.

[@DD-fj2ut]

I like the flashlight idea.

[@stefanoboy5157]

It is in describing tragic events that the true skills of the storytellers emerge: thank you Juan for keeping alive the finest youtube channel.

[@rogerwilcoshirley2270]

Prob icing related undetected aerodynamic stall causing the initial descent that evolved into the flat spin when they pulled up slightly to prevent further altitude loss. aEspecially with icing, airspeed may be an unreliable indicator of stall margin, the point is not airspeed but the ice layer drastically disrupting the airflow over the wings and stabilator. Icing can also prevent free movement of essential control surfaces and also potentially freeze over the pitostatic ports upon which accurate airspeed depend. They should have continued the descent until at least 10k feet to melt the ice and then been very careful about leveling out.

[@sirus312]

so basically pilot error? What did they do, try to keep going higher then got into a stall?

[@bsdrvr1]

I flew the ATR42/72 in the early '90's and it does not like icing at all. We lost one in Indiana. RIP to all.

[@notircm]

A brasilian friend of mine told me right after this incident happened that a plane falled out of the sky and send me links with the video.... At the start I thought it would be a pilot error or tecnical problem....then, after, seeing the clouds and since its almost winter in Brazil... isnt the Ideal Icy conditions? I learn alot from Juan with the phisics of an airplane Im also an Flight Simulator and comercial airplanes enthusiast P.S. Sorry for my bad english

[@uwekonnigsstaddt524]

Your English is optimo. Obrigado

[@user-nu1sq2fz8s]

Yes it looks like icing

[@Kitt_the_Katt]

No need to apologize for having the courage to take on a language you didn't grow up speaking. Good job

[@EKL-qu7ih]

Your English is great compared to our Portuguese!

[@rich_h]

Immediately reminded me of American Eagle 4184, Halloween 1994. I was a paramedic about an hour away, so I didn't work it, but had friends who worked that scene for weeks.

[@natanclassic]

I`m from brazil and i was watching the news and they don`t explain like you did, your video is awesome. even for me an non pilot person. Great video, great content !!,

[@Markle2k]

Denys Davydov over on his Pilot Blog channel is a former ATR-72 pilot and 737 captain. He goes into more detail about how the aircraft handles and a particular American Airlines crash 30 years ago that was eerily similar. In that incident, the aircraft was in a hold at FL170 with flaps 15 which resulted in a nose-down attitude that allowed ice to form *behind* the de-ice boots.

[@Summitspeedfly]

Every aircraft I've ever flown, that is exactly where most of the ice forms, behind the de-ice boots or heated leading edge.

[@Riccardo.B.74]

ATR had icing problems and accidents from its birth. I studied the icing problems of ATR in one subject of Aeronautical Engineering

[@spaceranger3728]

I recall a video of some NASA testing that was specifically related to icing on T-tail airplanes and ensuing tailplane stalls. Today's crash is one of the most disturbing airplane videos I've ever seen.

[@marcelajaime1422]

and still many of them keep flying....why?

[@JadaKingdom971]

​@@marcelajaime1422I think it's because for short regional flights this might be the most "efficient" plane but they clearly need to redesign this plane completely

[@AEMoreira81]

@@marcelajaime1422 -- The major competitor has been the DHC/Bombardier Dash 8, which is more capable but more expensive. Dash 8 production is also suspended.

[@georgem.6136]

The passengers must have been terrified for the amount of time they were in that flat spin, damn.

[@craig7350]

no kidding

[@izzypaynee]

Omg really?

[@stevenrobinson2381]

Most if not all were probably unconscious due to the g-forces.

[@hitmixhyepock9405]

Probably not unconscious.....​@@stevenrobinson2381

[@uncleandy2412]

@@stevenrobinson2381 lol no

[@josem.2714]

SIGMET at the coordinates of the accident show SEV ICE FL120/210 condition at the time. Condolences to the families of the victims.

[@zqzj]

Thank you for this relevant piece of data

[@chriscappy6540]

How do you look at sigmets in retrospect?

[@2760ade]

So why on earth were they flying an ATR which is known to have an icing problem, in these conditions? This was avoidable in my opinion!

[@josem.2714]

@@chriscappy6540 Brazilian Air Force weather service (REDEMET) website provides historical data of all advisory messages

[@johnhaller5851]

Pilot Blog used to fly ATR planes. The high tail makes for disturbed air if trying to climb while in a spin, as the elevator is in that disturbed air, preventing elevator controls from being effective.. There is an optional parachute to help with such conditions, but it's not clear if this aircraft was equipped with that parachute, or if it was deployed if equipped.

[@martins767]

Thanks for this video. Here in Brasil, TV shows only empty especulations and repeats endlessly the plane's dropping in the multiple videos available. It's frustrating. You've shown clearly the main aspects of that flight that could have contributed to the tragedy. Nice work!

[@frank_av8tor]

Flew an ATR-42 in Central America and it was normal to get some ice antime above 15 thousand. The aicraft (should) have both CVR and FDR, hopefully the exact cause can be determined. Terrible tragedy, thoughts and prayers for the families.

[@josephyutenkas4902]

You have become the most clear, concise and trusted source of aviation information. I'm just saddened that they these type of things continue to happen.

[@dchapero6929]

That was hard to watch. Thank you for your professionalism while offering preliminary analysis of this tragedy.

[@jaycooper2812]

I live in Alaska and several of the airlines here used to fly the ATR. Then after a couple of crashes of ATRs there was a study that proved the ATR to be extremely vulnerable to ice. Suddenly Alaska Airlines, Era Aviation, and the other 2 stopped flying the ATRs and switched over to the Dehaviland Dash-8 series aircraft. Alaska Airlines and Raven Alaska both still fly the Dash-8 and have refused several attempts to get them to start flying ATRs again. Several of Raven's Dash-8 series 100 and 200 aircraft are still in service with them today and Alaska Airlines flys Dash-8 series 400 and

[@RevDog777]

But the Dash 8 was the last big plane crash in USA, due to pilot error

[@alistairplank4996]

Dehaviland Dash-8 , still popular in Greenland, Fly in the worst icing I've encountered.

[@TulsAmerican]

The ATR was known to be susceptible to super cool liquid droplets wing icing past the boots creating aileron snatch that was adverse to recovery. American Eagle 4184 was the accident that showed the tendencies of the ATR.

[@donmoore7785]

Terrifying sight seeing that fall out of the sky. Excellent reporting as usual.

[@__globalcitizen__]

Thank you for your video, was eagerly waiting for your initial thoughts. May the victims rest in peace.

[@alstruck8063]

Everyone on board knew what was coming, so very sad. Thanks Mr. Brown for bringing this to us, many prayers to and for the families.

[@FernandaU24EVER]

Thanks for the insightful and respectful video. All locations names were pronounced accurately, contrarily to some other channels. May those souls RIP and God comfort their families.

[@anniechrisbendy6000]

Seems like the crew were unaware until it was to late ????? There is an ice build up warning chime right????? THE BEST AVIATION CHANNEL ON THE WWW.. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 🇬🇧

[@sadiejustin]

That really is some hard footage to watch. Condolences to all involved.

[@keithnorris6348]

Thank you again Mr Brown for providing context and plausible mechanisms to those of us who are so poorly informed that we are unable to fathom the nature of the disaster, prayers for those lost

[@luisgarza2036]

Have no words, really heartbreaking video. My condolences to all.

[@ddegn]

"heartbreaking video" Agreed. This is a really sad story.

[@michaelkenny4124]

The ATR 72 has always made me feel uneasy about its flight characteristics. Those stuby little wings and high tail are so vulnerable.

[@ricklowers8873]

Juan, having flown the 42 and 72 for several years. And, flying over the 4184 crash sight (only a couple of hours after) on the evening of 31OCT94…I can say with confidence…you DO NOT want to remain in icing conditions (especially severe ice) in that aircraft. Without more data I CANNOT say that was the cause. But, when I got home tonight, my wife asked me my thoughts. Icing was (& is) my initial gut impression. Especially after watching the spin the aircraft was in. But again, I’m not going to claim that as fact…let’s let the actual facts tell us the cause. This incident brings back way too many horrible memories and breaks my heart to see it possibly have happened again. My prayers for those in peril in the air…😢

[@JohnUsp]

Excellent analysis, I'm from Brazil and there is an audio from a pilot from Azul (JetBlue) who listened to that pilot say to the tower they "got ice" and requested to land ASAP, but the tower held them for a while.

[@j_taylor]

That would make this tragedy even more heartbreaking. Love and healing to everyone there. 🇧🇷

[@IgorFioli]

There is no contact between pilots and ATC. "The head of Cenipa, Air Brigadier Marcelo Moreno, declared that the initial information does not indicate contact between the pilots and the tower"

[@wallacemjr]

Azul is not JetBlue, they are different companies despite having shared shareholders.

[@JohnUsp]

@@IgorFioli ATC, I mean Tower, I thought was the same.

[@olasek7972]

@@JohnUspevery „tower” is ATC but not every ATC is tower 😂😂

[@hourbee5535]

RIP. Those last moments must have been horrendous.

[@drizztcat1]

A flat spin that only took 90 seconds to drop them from FL170 to GL. Very scary.

[@FlywithMagnar]

Very good coverage. The Cold Weather Operations manual is a little old, but still relevant. The current procedure is to increase the speed to icing bug +30 kts in severe icing (QRH). The change came after some incidents where the crews tried to outclimb moderate/severe icing conditions and allowed the speed to drop below icing bug.

[@gregculverwell]

Speaking from memory, this is the 4th or 5th ATR 72 crash due to Iceing. I seem to remember that they were grounded / banned in North America some years ago due it's problems. What I read at the time was that it was designed with a very efficient suoercritcal wing which is very sensitive to ice.

[@duncandmcgrath6290]

😂That’s absolutely false .

[@athgt6630]

there was a PIREP today for sev ice in the area

[@williamlloyd3769]

Watching your video and the early evening news version of this story came up. You're the real deal on reporting aviation. Thank you. RIP passengers and crew. PS - The photo of the aircraft shown on the ground showed top of the cockpit area was recognizable

[@Chris-Nico]

Thank you, Juan for the quick update. Any accident is tough to take. Watching a video makes it even tougher. Prayers for the families.

[@davidimhoff2118]

Your investigations just get better and better which I didn’t think was possible. The software you use with everything plugged in just shows us so much more info. I always know to come to your channel. It’s so appreciated.

[@roryfiler214]

What a horrendous plummet the crew and passengers had to experience. My thoughts are with the families who lost loved ones. And, Juan, nice job pronouncing Vinhedos. You nailed it!

[@jamescollier3]

2.5 min

[@manikyum]

So it's not vin-Heyy-dos?

[@roryfiler214]

@@manikyum No, when you see a word with an "H" in it in Portuguese it has the same effect as the ñ character in Spanish. So when you see "Vinho" it's not "Vin ho", but "veenyo". Although sometimes the incorrect pronunciation can be a source of humour ;-)

[@manikyum]

@@roryfiler214 aww how kind of you. Thank you teacher 🙏✌️🕊️

[@toddcitron7869]

Thanks Juan. Excellent reporting. RIP to all involved. This reminds me of an accident on approach to Buffalo, Colgan 3407 which killed several of my colleagues at Northrop Grumman. PF entered into a stall, pulling against the stick shaker and pusher. My understanding is that airplane remained in a stall during its decent.

[@VoluntaryPlanet]

That wasn’t the Colgan crash that spurred the ATP decision was it?

[@33moneyball]

Colgan was the last fatal commercial crash in the US…crazy that it’s been 15.5 years…I was born in 1984 and major crashes were regular, often annual, occurrences for the first 20ish years of my life…in 2009 it stopped entirely. Amazing achievement. The next one is going to be unbelievably jarring cause it’s been so long.

[@unropednope4644]

Isn't that the one where the pilot and copilot were having inappropriate conversations while flying and not monitoring the instruments?

[@shopdog831]

That spin looked horrifying.

[@user-nu1sq2fz8s]

For sure

[@jamescollier3]

2.5 minutes

[@ddegn]

@@jamescollier3 Was it really spinning for two and a half minutes? Absolutely terrifying. Those videos were gut wrenching to watch. RIP crew and passengers.

[@olasek7972]

@@ddegnno, less than 2 minutes

[@sarahalbers5555]

Bone chilling.

[@bryanyoutubechannel]

Always my go to source for aviation accident news and understanding. When I her about an aviation incident I come here first and always. Juan Brown is an amazing asset to the community.

[@jeffb5168]

Perhaps I am naive but why fly right in the thick of icing conditions? That aircraft has a service ceiling of 25,000, yes? It might burn more fuel to climb an extra 6000 feet but it sure beats the alternatives.

[@shaymcquaid]

My first thought was icing. RIP Crew and Passengers. That had to be terrifying.

[@oldmeadowvalevillager7961]

The Way You Explained It Was Right On . . My Gut Feeling Is That It Was Extreme Icing Conditions . . Thanks Juan . .

[@slgarrison]

Looking similar to American Eagle(Simmons) 4184. And might I add, I never go to regular news sources for aviation accident reports. I come here. Great work Juan!

[@crazymonkeyVII]

Totally not similar to AA4184. Yes, that crash was also caused by ice, but in all other respects a completely different accident! In that case the ice accumulation caused a huge force on the ailerons leading to a roll. That thing never flat spinned! The crew in this situation had a much, much bigger problem. A flat spin in a high tailed aircraft can take tens of thousands of feet to recover, even if you do everything exactly right from the moment you enter a spin. At 17000 feet and over mountains and with ice the situation was hopeless. R.I.P. passengers and crew.

[@desmond-hawkins]

Great call! This is literally the only other ATR 72 crash I've seen mentioned in this context. Other pilots and NTSB investigators such as Gregory Feith have also made similar comparisons recently, there might well be something to it (Feith was Investigator In Charge or "IIC" at the site of 4148's crash). Check out the multiple interviews Feith has given in the past few days, he's got a lot to say about these two crashes and their seemingly-related causes.

[@billjohnson6300]

Because I watch your channel regularly, severe icing is what came to mind right away. Great presentation as usual. I'm becoming an armchair pilot just by watching your videos! Thanks Juan!

[@naughtiusmaximus830]

I haven’t seen the ATR-72s in service in ages in the north here since they were dropping like flies from icing in the 90s.

[@GRW3]

You should readily recall the American Eagle ATR that went in just outside of Chicago due to icing. There is a movie called Charlie Victor Romeo that reenacts CVR recordings, and the Chicago ATR crash is one of their segments. It portrayed a scene of normalcy until everything went south suddenly without warning. I expect the CVR for this plane will be similar. I haven't been on an ATR too often. The last I recall was a hop from DFW to Lubbock. It was the middle of summer after the above incident, CAVU but It still gave me a pause.

[@NicolaW72]

So far as I can see many are wondering today if is a Roselawn Disaster all over again, only 30 years later. But at the moment, just a few hours after the Crash happened, it´s of course much too early for any valide Conclusions. Thank you very much for this Video! My Condolences to the Families and Friends of the Deceased.

[@dmh54321]

OMG another ATR goes down. So sad.

[@jdellis9361]

I always learn so much from your videos. Condolences to the families of these souls.

[@dsonictube]

severe icing was reported between 14-21000ft at the time .The ATR only has rubber boots on the wings, when it forms an ice bridge your out of control .severe icing has brought down many aircraft over the years.

[@Mrgjo123]

Thank you for bringing this to the attention of the pilot community, I have learnt many lessons from you

[@brlira]

Thanks for the video and condolences to the families of passengers and crew who perished in this horrific event. RIP

[@KWMQ]

Another ATR icing accident. RIP 😢. American Eagle 4184 was the first thing I thought of when I saw the footage.

[@uwekonnigsstaddt524]

Same here. They sent their ATRa to the Caribbean to y only there

[@t23001]

Wasn’t there a couple serious ATR icing crashes in the U.S. about 15-20 years ago? Upstate New York and the Midwest?

[@pushingporsche4830]

@@t23001That’s what they’re referencing babe

[@deounb]

@@t23001 A plane from United crashed in Buffalo NY icing was a factor

[@randomscb-40charger78]

@@pushingporsche4830 No the American Eagle accident occurred in the 90s. They're referring to Colgan Air 3407 albeit that plane was a Q400.

[@doneB830]

Wow, this is one of your greatest shows, it’s always so sad, well done Juan.

[@mike747436]

Great summary, thank you. Sure has the hallmarks of loss of control due severe icing.

[@R2Bl3nd]

Thanks for being such a quick and objective source of all the hard facts about a situation.