#10MinuteTalk

[@ovejohansen77]

The legendary 10 minutes for EACH bullet talk..

[@TheCaptnHammer]

And ten minutes in the color shade of the Barnes. Lmao. Keep it coming gents, but maybe less wax poetic.😊

[@kendole5931]

This is absolutely my favorite episode…I can listen to an hour about each bullet type

[@DanielPhillips86VA]

Made my morning with this! And a 6ARC cameo to boot! I just got a Howa Mini in 6ARC after binging Ryan’s carbon Howa episode an unhealthy amount of times.

[@jamesclark4]

😅

[@RobertShannon-ew2nw]

I've been hunting for many years and just shot whatever was on the shelf, thanks to you guys and other great KZbin shows I feel way more informed so thank you for making me a smarter hunter.

[@mj23isthebest]

I love these 1:28 minutes 10 minute talks. They’re the best.

[@christiandavis5285]

I can’t believe you tried to make this a 10 minute talk. I opened my KZbin app, saw the topic and said no way

[@anonymousf454]

They didnt even try 😂😂😂

[@smith8124]

Life pro tip - Those 5.56 77gr Sierra Match Kings boat tail hollow points are also what you should be running in your shorty ARs, eg 10.3” 11.5” 12.5”. These rounds fú¢k out of SBRs where the 55gr M193 & 62gr M855 green tips don’t perform well terminally.

[@mikkosaarnivala]

FMJ bullets are preferred when using rifle for bird hunt at least in Finland - they minimize the loss of meat (which there is not that much to begin with).

[@Darthdoodoo]

Thanks for the nugget of wisdom im an American and want to learn more about hunting and every little bit of knowledge counts when you don't have any experienced people to teach you

[@PBG762]

From military perspective FMG is preffered, not just from legality perspective, but from practical as well. First will pass trough and through and potentially hit another combatant, dose not shatter on ricochet , feeds more reliable in automatic weapons, cheaper, more chance to induce an wounded soldier that takes more resources than a dead one....adn i can continue on.....

[@aquaman6081]

That's not true. It's cheap, and produced in massive numbers. It works good enough, and can penetrate. That's it

[@biggs8729]

Your both partially right. The military has done extensive studies, obviously, on FMJ bullets. They have put a minimum "lethal" velocity on each FMJ they use, which is the minimum velocity a bullet will still break apart at the cannular when it yaws or tumbles in ordinance gel. FMJ bullets don't just poke holes, they tumble, which in it's self, causes a lot of damage, but if they are going fast enough, they also break in half at the cannular causing massive damage and they are still legal by international rules of war.

[@jeffreywilson690]

Missed one rebaited boat tail

[@XxXTheFacelessOneXxX]

"Low speed, high drag". Great concept for a cartridge! You could call it the .45 RuPaul

[@taylormartin4346]

Been wanting something like this for a while. Thanks for putting it together

[@DanielReyes-hz1qk]

Don't forget states requiring the use of lead free ammo for hunting, that's a part of the push away from bonded bullets as well

[@bdaug15]

Best part of this podcast is cartridge talks. #changemymind

[@willquinn9233]

The thing shot out of a cannon in Mario is Bullet Bill, the bomb-bomb is different

[@casman9635]

Came here to see if anyone else already corrected them lol.

[@Darthdoodoo]

In mario 3 on nes in world 8 they did have some cannons that shot bullets and some that shot bobombs up in the air and they would walk around when they landed.

[@toddboyer9691]

My favorite part was Ryan and Jim spending 2 full minutes rearranging the boxes on the table! .35 Rem 10 Min. Talk!

[@russellgavin1820]

10 minutes 😂

[@ducksoup786]

Slight miscalculation.

[@Perry2186]

Well 10min segments

[@ShockerMain2124]

Biggest lie on the Internet

[@edwardabrams4972]

10 min’s or 6” inches it’s all how you look at it🤔😳😂 I am far sighted so my wife says I have an excuse🤣

[@edwardabrams4972]

@@ShockerMain2124No the biggest is saying “ this is the biggest lie” 😳😂

[@dwightdhansen]

10 minute talk 88 minute long video The bane of my wife's existence 🤣

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

Bonded bullets are quite popular in South Africa. I hunt All my game, springbuck to eland with bonded bullets, Nosler accubond most of the time. I think it causes less meat damage

[@chadmorrison5094]

I tested cup and core vs bonded in 300 blk to see how it does as a whitetail cartridge. Amazing difference in the 2. Can see the test and results on KZbin God's Country shooting and outdoors. Love your channel guys!

[@jjgriffin3275]

Yall said it - It Just Works - Good Ole Soft Points

[@jfess1911]

The Terminal Ascent is a hybrid design. It is intended to be more accurate than a traditional bonded bullet by reducing the size of the bonded core and moving the lead towards the centerline (spin axis) of the bullet. This is in contrast to many traditional bonded designs like the Accu Bond series which essentially solder the lead core to a relatively this jacket. Typically, a flux is used to strip off oxides to get a good bond, but these particles of oxide stay in the core. The particles of oxides are a different density than lead and can deposit randomly in the core as it is melted for the bonding process. Those particles throw off the balance of the bullet slightly, especially if they stay near the outside (the jacket-core interface). The Terminal Ascent bullets reduce the effect of the oxide particles on balance by making the total bonding surface smaller and moving it towards the centerline, where it has less effect on the spinning bullet.

[@markburke2533]

Thank you for the updates on so many bullets that have been made in the last 20 years! I'm a reloader since the 60's and hunter before that. What a wonderful explanation of what we have to choose from now!

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

I haven't caught any of the podcasts in a while and missed the velvety smooth delivery by the bullet and firearm guru Brian Muckenhern. This was a nice chat about Rifle Target /Hunting Bullet types. They should do one on the pistol bullet types as well sometime. Lots of folks still cast lead solids and hollowpoints and powdercoat then we have copper plated, copper jacketed, and expanding monolithic copper, etc much like the rifle bullets but without the mechanical or chemically bonded and tipped variants that rifles have.

[@timtimm9199]

As someone who reloads this is a great "10" minute talk. The greater offering of bullets sure has changed in 30 years since I started loading.

[@stephencooper5040]

This was almost as long as standing in the corner for 10 minutes when I was a kid… but INFINITELY more interesting.

[@discopotato6870]

Ba Bomb was a Bomb. Bullet Bill's were the Bullets in Mario... just an FYI.

[@JHansell3031]

I am a big fan of bonded bullets, the federal fusion (or Speer Gold dot) especially. I believe these stand out from other bonded bullets because they are essentially an extremely thick electroplated jacked with an exposed tip, until the polymer tip Speer Impact. Federal and Speer can manufacture them this way because of their location in the PNW using cheaper power from the Columbia river dams. Other companies may use a process more similar to soldering to bond the jacket and core. I have personally sectioned bullets out of curiosity, and was shocked at the small size of the hornady interlock ring. The representation of the picture on the box is much more pronounced than in reality, although I have used interlocks to take deer with a 30-06. The jackets can separate from the core if you hit bone, something the fusions would not do. The fact that the interlock ring is used in the Interlock, SST, and ELD X lines means most of the innovation has been on the outside rather than the inside of their bullets. Great "10 min" talk thanks

[@shovelhead2155]

Federal is adding a Tipped Fusion to the lineup. Will have awesome B.C.

[@andrewboore3899]

How about a cartridge talk on the 7x57 Mauser?

[@completesystemfailure4669]

Hey Ryan , I just rolled up a 7 mag for the talk .

[@pauljay1328]

You should do a ballistic gel test with match type bullets

[@phild9813]

I agree. Need to test many different brands though. I suspect some will perform consistently and some not so consistently. Some may work like an expanding bullet and some more like an FMJ.

[@Renegade20071975]

Love it!! Beginning to end. Keep going down the rabbit holes. Love y’all’s personalities and the information is awesome.

[@andrewcheff4035]

Best podcast to listen too!

[@Dream-season]

The dream team

[@pcolice]

Ref bonded bullets, my experience with .30 cal Accubonds vs Ballistic Tips is that with 165s & 180s Accubonds aren’t appreciably tougher at .308 Win & .30-06 speeds. Maybe the ABs pull away with the magnum .30 cal cartridges. On the flip side, IN MY RIFLES, factory Ballistic Tip loads typically shoot better than ABs. So for me as a non-magnum .30 cal shooter, my answer to the bonded bullet question is, “What’s the point?”

[@frontlinerejects8029]

Great video, would love a cartridge talk on the 7.5 Swiss. It's a real interesting cartridge, current world record for the furthest open sight shot is held by a shooter using a K31 in 7.5 Swiss with handloaded 190 SMK's.

[@Tcgunner]

These videos have helped me through most of my course in my SDI schooling! Love the great informational videos guys, keep it up. 👍🏽

[@jjgriffin3275]

The pure number of people who shoot the VMax bullet on whitetail is mind blowing

[@IamONaLIST]

I personally haven't done it but I hear from people who use it on pigs and deer out of a 300blk. With the lower velocities they say it expands like a traditional bullet.

[@MSHunts]

I love bonded bullets! I hope they don’t go anywhere anytime soon. The AB, Scirroco, Terminal Ascent! All fantastic!

[@shovelhead2155]

Don't forget Federal Fusion. They are coming out with a tipped version soon

[@MSHunts]

@@shovelhead2155 I’ve been wanting to get some of the Federal Fusion MSR in .223/5.56 to see how my rifles like them.

[@shovelhead2155]

@@MSHunts They are great. Hope they work well for you. And the velocity on the back is from a 16 inch barrel.

[@MSHunts]

@@shovelhead2155 That’s fantastic! I wish 16” velocities were posted on more 5.56 ammo boxes.

[@shovelhead2155]

@@MSHunts I agree. Not many people running around with 24-26" Varmint barrels (which I happen to like), and that's what the most common lengh for .223 test barrels is. 5.56 NATO is from a 20" barrel at 50 feet, I think. That is why I laugh when a box of 55 grain .223 says 3,250 FPS, and m193 usually says 3,125 FPS. Typically .223 55 grain from a 16-inch barrel is about 2700-2900 FPS, depending on the manufacturer.

[@edwardabrams4972]

The good old FMJ🙌 hunted with them in the 60’s for deer when they were all you could find during hunting season for hard to find cartridges. One if my dads best friends was friends with John Nosler in the 50’s and 60’s when they were in Ashland oregon and still can remember when my dad switched over to the good old Partitions!

[@billyhancock7851]

How did the fmj's work for you? I had a friend who used them regularly. He said that he never had a problem. They are a lot easier to find than some other styles.

[@mot0rhe4d40]

Used the Inter-Bond to take my Buffalo. Didn't like it dropping from Hornady's line up.

[@45-70Guy]

It is funny how similar some of our minds think even when we have never meet certain people in different parts of the country. Ryan’s thought process is much like mine , Bullets, calibers, rifles, types and styles of hunting, it’s great to see

[@mikemelina7395]

The sleeper round has to be the one not shown; The Federal Fusion, or now, the Tipped Fusion. They cost less than the Noslers, not much more than Remington Corlokt but perform like premium priced ammunition. I think Federal is knocking out of the park right now with all of their bullets, from the Powershocks up to the Terminal Ascent.

[@dr.froghopper6711]

As Cowboy Kent Rollins said, “You don’t get full on fancy!”-referring to culinary pursuits. He cooks Cowboy Chuck Wagon style and feeds working cowboys. He should know. I’m enamored with the TTSX myself. It’s fancy enough for me. But my dad took an elk with a 200 gr round nose from Remington (Core-Lokt) through a 35 Remington Marlin 336. Not fancy by any stretch but that elk didn’t die laughing.

[@donjohnson5172]

Ten minutes turns to ninety. gotta love it. I will say that the only way I could see bonded bullets going away completely, would be if the monolithic copper bullets get cheaper. As olit stands now, a bonded bullet offers more than half of the performance, at almost half the cost of an all copper bullet (especially if we are talking about full cartridges and not just the bullets). I've been trying to stack as much federal fusion 223 as I can, but it's so damn difficult to find in stores around here, and most of the online retailers are marking it up a great deal.

[@Dale37]

I really enjoy your 10x talks!

[@DaddyDaGuido]

Me: hell yeah, another vortex ten minute talk *Opens video* 1 hour and 28 minutes

[@jdjones865]

Love to see a podcast on the subject of mixing different manufacture brand ammo in the ammo can, like 9mm for example. Pro & Cons.

[@Daniel_Callie]

Haha! Bless y’all. Learning time is tuff!

[@joearledge]

Mark with the "FNG" bullets 🤣🤣🤣

[@Funting3417]

Up next on 10 minute talk the 340 weatherby magnum

[@johngoodman9380]

Flat base bullets have more bearing surface on the lands and grooves of the barrel. Is there a situation when that is adventitious? Maybe a barrel with high internal wear on it.

[@MSHunts]

Great job, as always guys. One more thing, I believe bonded sticks around, if for no other reason, because many law enforcement agencies use bonded .223/5.56.

[@leskrug9266]

I just went to TTSX bullets in my 708 ,140 grain ,,and 30-06, 168 grain 1/2" groups ,,, the 708 is the Thompson center venture compact 20-in barrel. Those bulbs are flying 2850 ft per second,,, the 30.6 is a Remington mountain rifle with a 22-in barrel and those bolts are flying 2750 feet per second.

[@jfess1911]

A decent rule of thumb is that a monolithic copper-allow bullet will be as physically large as a traditional cup-and-lead-core bullet that is 25% heavier. A 120grain monolithic is about the same size as a 150grain cup and core, for example. The BC of the bullet, though is related to the density as well as shape. so the lighter monolithic bullet will have a lower BC than the same shaped cup and core. This is partially offset by the lighter bullet being launched faster, but if you are looking at 500 yard shots, the monolithic bullet is typically at a disadvantage vs a tipped bonded or cup-and-core.

[@JTEL1911]

Jordan from Mount Morris mi here. Makes chamber reamers for a living @ Manson Precision Reamers…good stuff guys🤘🍻

[@TheHangarmenBand]

Jsp underrated for whitetail out of a traditional 30-06 308 270. Deep pen and enough energy to expand. Cheap and amazingly effective. Fancy bullets are fun to think on but 2 or 3 times the cost of old school jsp.

[@hunterthompson6295]

This is what im talkin bout baby

[@austinsmith7235]

Would love to hear y'alls thoughts on the 360 buck hammer

[@nojoeoutdoors4623]

lol loved the argument about the bonded bullet being phased out. I too love bonded bullets as I don’t want to pick lead out of my meat. However I do agree that in rifle ammo they will be phased out. I think they are here to stay in handgun ammo.

[@MansonPrecisionReamers]

🤘 Manson reamers grand Blanc Mi here. Good stuff guys!

[@n8reo269]

Swedish vs Italian meatballs for next season of spaghetti shootout

[@jaydunbar7538]

“Horse vs beef” fixed that for you lol

[@stevecochran9078]

Depends on the sauce.

[@Godfryness]

Love it!

[@NorthernContinental]

Loooooove that 10 minute (1.5 hour) talk hahaha. Like the vid length is the first thing I look at when a 10 minute drops😂

[@Blair338RUM]

This is a fascinating discussion. Talking of a “tough” name for bullet was our Australian bullet the Woodleigh WELDCORE. Either a round nose or semi spitzer bonded bullet. One reason I believe that bonded bullets have been losing popularity is cost and the type of game animals that the majority of hunters take. For the vast majority of hunters you don’t need the toughness of a bonded bullet.

[@Aurora4804]

I either want a cheap bullet (not bonded) A high BC bullet (not bonded) Or deep peneteration (copper mono > bonded) 🤷‍♂️

[@Outdoor-Tactics]

Funny how that works out lol

[@mikemelina7395]

The ABLR is a high BC, deep penetrating bullet that has the added benefit of also being bonded, as is the Terminal Ascent. As an added benefit, you'll get more penetration and expansion at longer ranges than you will with copper mono, because they weigh more. ABLRs have crazy high BCs.

[@tonybarnes5309]

Great Video, the Hornady Interlock, Nosler Partition, and the Speer Grand Slam are all great. Get her done. Economically, bullets for reasonable hunting distance. The bonded Bullets are my personal favorite, whether Nosler or lately, the Speer Impact. As you can tell, I reload my own cartridges mostly. And I noticed you did not have any Remington Cor-lock or New Remington Long Range

[@mr.mr.3301]

Terminal Assent is awesome.

[@TrevorVinson]

I hunt mule deer with my .300 Weatherby and use Barnes 180gr ttsx. Extremely effective and only one deer I’ve found a part of the bullet that broke off, it was a “quartering to” shot While field dressing I found one pedal of the expanded bullet. Great bullets and will take down anything in North America Also if you could expand on weatherby’s freebore and how a boat tail projectile might be affected by that freebore

[@chipsterb4946]

My favorite episode so far! One thought about flat-based bullets: in some situations you might have more surface contact with the case neck (think light for caliber) -or- you might have less bullet intrusion into the powder column (think longer bullet that has to sit back into the case more). Does that have any bearing? (Forgive me for the horrible pun 🤓) P.S. Hornady is really irritating. That 160 grain 7mm CX bullet? No data for either 7mm-08 or 7x57 Mauser. Seems like it would be ideal for the 7x57…

[@ipirqinuarak7142]

I have some question(s) Can you guys discuss the topic of discontinued bullets? The likes of Federal Edge TLR, Hornady BTHP Match (338 285gr), and so on? I appreciate it. Daniel

[@danielkearney-li3tz]

i love these vids

[@brenn330]

This may be the record length 10 minute talk?

[@JimmyJusa]

I think bonded is a cost issue, being the same or more as monolithic/ lead-free bullets, and then there is the question of why not go with the lead-free at that point. Going with a heavier lead bullet to limit the downfalls of bullets falling apart at short range also leads to the question of whether a bonded bullet is needed. That being said, I would prefer bonded in a lead bullet for 90% of my hunting over standard lead, but just as easily would grab the lead free option.

[@edwardabrams4972]

Bonded is best at ranges 300 yards or less especially with magnums which is the reason they came out to begin with!

[@JimmyJusa]

@edwardabrams4972 similar to lead free bullets due to velocity requirements. Neither is a wrong or bad choice at all.

[@garrettschienschang7898]

What’s your thoughts on a 220 eldx for a long range 300wmg load. Mostly target shooting but may be used for hunting

[@BillyJoeBob3691]

I use the 225 ELD-M in 300 WM for long range target and hunting, and it has dropped properly placed shots on black bear and elk out to 600.

[@garrettschienschang7898]

@@BillyJoeBob3691 thanks. What do you load them with?

[@BillyJoeBob3691]

@@garrettschienschang7898 A press

[@garrettschienschang7898]

@@BillyJoeBob3691 that’s a response I would have given. How about a powder type and charge instead?

[@BillyJoeBob3691]

@@garrettschienschang7898 lmao glad you have a sense of humor, brother! Keep in mind I have a custom chamber, so start at 10% below… but my most accurate load is 72 grains of IMR 7828 SSC, over magnum primers, load to .020 off the lands.

[@kyleloper6921]

One of these days I hope Ryan will divulge more about his process for load development. I bought 130grain TTSXs because he seems so passionate about them.

[@kevincolonel3070]

Mark losing his mind at the possibility of bonded core bullets leaving the marketplace was sad to watch. The black powder analogy does not fit. I have access to black powder and prefer it to all of the substitutes, sans bh209. For me, bh209 is far more difficult to find. Pyrodex, triple 7, and all the pellets are useless as tits on a bull. I think a good analogy would be the corner vent windows from cars. I didn't like seeing them disappear from new car models, but now air conditioning is so much better and quieter that I rarely even think of them. It will be the same for the bonded bullets, which I also love and load for my hunting. They will be replaced in the market by better alternatives.

[@jfess1911]

Hornady's Interlock patents seem to have expired since some of the new Remington tipped core-lokt and the Norma Tipstrike bullets seem to have it now.

[@joncook6331]

I haven’t tried copper yet, but I’m thinking I might try. Does it cause more build up and require more cleaning of your rifle?

[@VortexNation]

Nothing conclusive out there stating it leaves more copper as most modern projectiles have a thick layer of copper jacketing.

[@justinsalzl1517]

I love copper. It’s performed fantastic for hunting. And shoots great for me as well. Enjoy!

[@deanparker4742]

At normal hunting ranges, 300 yards or less, very hard to beat core lokts or power shoks. They will continue to do what they have done for years. Hunters are finally figuring this out!!!!

[@Blair338RUM]

The best homogeneous copper bullet, without doubt is the Lapua NATURALIS. Superb accuracy and much better terminal ballistics than a Barnes.

[@benjaminsims9046]

What’s up with the SPAM on the shelf?😊

[@bradbo3]

May I suggest you guys get a big whiteboard dry erase board for easier use in explaining the jackets, coats, tips or core. Hard to see a tiny bullet on camera.

[@Grizzwalker]

FMJs are the deadliest bullet…in mass. Quantity has a say in the equation.

[@jakewhite4321]

Jim really fought off that yawn at 40:30.

[@CA_Outdoor_Reviews]

Still waiting for 6.5 grendel vs. 6 arc cartridge battle

[@jmgates09]

TRUTH!!!

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

6 ARC is better, 6.5 Grendel is debatably more available.

[@mot0rhe4d40]

​@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Both are interesting to me. Just due to what they bring to the AR-15 platform, without having to step up into the AR-10.

[@alaindiebra968]

Full Metal Jacket 556 was made to make holes and wound not kill. It takes another soldier to take care of the wounded not the dead.

[@edwardabrams4972]

These guys crack me up🤣 this reminds me almost 60 years ago we were arguing the same thing only with the only caliber that would kill deer and elk🤣

[@ericford8556]

Swift loads and sells their bullets as Swift High Grade Ammunition. US military scout-snipers use tipped Sierra Match Kings. They used the open tip MKs prior to this. Some poorlyinformed member of Congress claimed the open tip bullets were causing horrific damage despite NOT violating the Geneva Conventions so we switched to the tipped bullets.

[@ChronicalsofAl]

You touched on it 😊right at the end are you may end up shooting a bullet say you didn't even plan on shooting because of your rifles individual characteristics. I have a 300 RUM that I have tack driving nosler partitions 180 grainers and I'm a huge fan of that bullet but only because of performance in that rifle. I want to try the cxs or the Barnes but I'm not going to because of possible fouling and I'm just not going to re- figure out low development for entirely new bullet

[@jaydunbar7538]

The problem bonded bullets have is sales volume, cup and core plinking and match style bullets just simply sell more. You may go through a few hundred match rounds in a weekend, or thousands of plinking or varmint styles. But that one box of top quality bonded ammunition will last you the entire season, or for those like my grandfather the decade of big game hunting. I don’t think bonded are going to go anywhere, what Ryan is witnessing is the expansion of the competition and plinking sectors that just simply consume far more ammunition and not a reduction of the bonded usage. Of course this is anecdotal, but I know my own shooting continues to increase with a variety of projectiles but the big game rounds I use in a year has been fairly consistent over the last 30 years.

[@shermrock345]

You make pure black powder. Its not hard to make. But its expensive to get in the mail. You might find some local but its still gonna cost a lil lil bit. They have good cheap, better alternatives to black powder that are not as sensitive to temperature or moisture and actually works well. And isn't corrosive to your gun. Thats the biggest part is not being corrosive.

[@mr.mr.3301]

On the Hornady podcast, they mentioned the enter Bond is not that accurate. And it’s hard to make bonded bullets accurate.

[@josiahwise6160]

I'd absolutely subscribe to Booner Does

[@kingwiththeax6880]

I pulled 16 very distinct loads out of my ammo can. 8 different calibers. Only one was bonded, one partitioned, none homogeneous, half of them tipped. If I want to go “tougher”, just increase the weight and it expands like anything, but drives deeper. Didn’t discuss sectional density, which is a predictive of penetration across calibers. SD is a lost statistic that explains why a 140gr 6.5mm bullet penetrates the same as a 180gr .30 cal.

[@Colok10]

Please do a cartridge talk on 358 Norma

[@dannymcintyre2742]

Should have talk more about terminal ascent

[@thepunisher374]

LOL this is the gun version of listening to millennial hipsters sit around pontificating the finer points of IPA beer. 😂

[@davidbezuidenhout5939]

The market is driving everything (rifles and bullets) more towards target shooting (cheap accurate rifles and bullets), but go to Africa for serious hunting and they love more traditional controlled feed rifles and bonded bullets (they are reliable and consistently deliver the results)

[@aquaman6081]

The military does not have rules about bullet construction. The hogue convention covers expanding projectiles, but the US did not agree or sign that portion. There are some in the military that use hollow points. The reason the majority use fmj, is for pennetration capabilities, and low cost. Thats all, its not that hard to comprehend

[@blackhawk7r221]

Ah yes, the effects-based prohibition on all bullets that caused “useless cruelty”. That’s all the US agreed to.

[@karlschuman7464]

what about hardcast ?