Why does this forest look like a fingerprint?

[@justhaku9240]

I swear theres just 1 guy whose job it is to look through google maps, find something odd and do a bunch of research on a completely random topic, cause if i had a nickel for every time this has happened id have 3 by now

[@jayayeonetoo3335]

for real, and because of the difference in the finds despite starting from the same "i saw this on google earth" procedure i'm engrossed and watch them all

[@Grayson_Wu]

That one guy is Christophe Haubursin, Vox's Senior Producer. Kudos to him.

[@tiffanysandmeier4753]

I pretty sure it is a whole community of digital explorers. For most, it is a hobby or side hustle.

[@timdowney6721]

Curious, imaginative people are what moves knowledge, and thus life, forward.

[@blackkissi]

there is also a small subreddit for this --> /r/Google_Maps_Oddities

[@AfonsoBucco]

We, South Americans (and most biologists) don't even call this "forests". Those are plantations of eucalyptus and also pines (exotic ones, came from North Hemisphere). Single species forests basically didn't exist in Brazil. Our natural forests are dense and diverse. I mean: lots of different species of trees and everything else. Probably buying wood from those plantations are still better for planet than illegal wood from our natural forests. Also, Uruguay had lots of natural grassland that MAYBE were not as ecologically important as Tropical and Atlantic Rain forests. But lots of exported wood are actually illegal, and sold like legal wood in important markets like USA and Europe, both for wood and combustible for thermoelectric plants sold like it was the "green" version of thermoelectric plants.

[@tondekoddar7837]

Kind of important to have at least some of every different environment saved - so we don't lose biodiversity too much. Nobody knows what treasures we may find in rare animals/plants. Finnish army is required to do yearly artillery barrages at butterflies - they need broken ground to nest :) Other thing that was about to go unnoticed (decades ago, better now) was old fallen rotting trees environment, since it was for long seen as danger to healthy forests, luckily now those are also thought worth saving and their area is also increasing now. Maybe the "forest islands" is danger still - some animals can't go through area that's not their forte´ I know, not sure what's being done about that.

[@mariaeduardalyracavalcanti9815]

​@@tondekoddar7837 I think he meant more about how we know about this topic in south american, its a problem many countries here suffer but in Brazil there is also the other big BIG problem of illegal wood, agropecuary, illegal animal trafficking. These days if you search about Pantanal and Amazonia forest fires, it has clear evidence of being man made, and thats prob a moviment the agrobussiment is making to protest of how they cant extort more of our ecosystems

[@a_paperweight]

As an Australian, the idea of planting Eucalyptus in an environment they aren't native to sounds supremely irresponsible, those trees literally evolved specifically to catch and spread fires, to the point of fires being an essential part of their reproductive cycle (seeds are more likely to germinate after a fire IIRC)

[@ADingoTookMyDasco]

The scariest thing in this report is the forest floor. If you're Australian like me you know how dangerous that looks. Show that to any Rural Firefighter over here & they'd have a heart attack. There's a reason that these trees grow so fast. It's so they can bounce back quickly after a bushfire, and all that stuff on the ground acts like tinder to quickly spread the flames. You don't want to be anywhere near an Eucalyptus forest when the thing catches fire.

[@buizelmeme6288]

Ooh! No wonder they don't let them in in the first place! Maybe that's why they let them into a smaller forest instead!

[@brianisaac1575]

I'm thinking that might open my sinuses...

[@taterkaze9428]

Uruguay gets a lot more rain.

[@mainualvarez796]

Hey! Uruguayan here. We do, in fact, have a fire season during particularly dry summers, and usually a couple of these forests burn down. However, Uruguay is a very humid country, so fires don't get too out of hand

[@magma2680]

not to mention unicultures are much more vulnerable to diseases that do affect their species, all it would take is a single super disease to destroy a gigantic portion of the entire nation's wood industry.

[@arthurgere2562]

I don't think people realise just how good the storytelling structure of this video is. It's basically built like a novel following the hero's journey pattern and a 3-act structure. Wether that was done intentionally or not, I can't say, but to whoever worked on building such a good narrative hook, I want you to know that your work didn't go unnoticed, it was worth it.

[@waffle_chair9269]

Absolutely agree. It’s so good, that many haven’t noticed, but have gone straight into chat/comment mode. Because all good art does that, provokes emotionally. If more of this was on tv, youtube wouldn’t be doing so well, and the general public would be a lot better educated 😂

[@HiThisIsMine]

It more likely started at the end since at the beginning of the story the answers were so easily searchable. That said, it’s still written as a great investigative story that has one path that leads to another.

[@M0utles]

Particularly for me it gives a propagandistic feeling that makes it look less credible

[@magma2680]

@@M0utles that's likely because you have very little knowledge of literature and the unknown feeling of partially understanding the literary device makes you think it's a bad feeling.

[@markeastridge9649]

Clean at 1.25 speed

[@amadea0903]

Was about to throw out a bunch of cardboard boxes I received from some recent online shopping. Now, it pains me to even think of discarding them so easily. I realize how much I've taken paper products for granted all my life-how cheap they are to buy, how easy they are to access, and how I use and dispose of them without even a second thought. Now I understand how impactful the pulp and paper industry is to our social and environmental welfare, despite never experiencing this for myself. Just because it's "not in my backyard", doesn't mean it isn't happening in many places around the world. Thank you for highlighting this very important issue.

[@truecrony]

Using and disposing of paper products promotes the use of paper products which promotes tree planting. So, go ahead compost or dispose of as much paper as you like. We'll just grow and harvest more trees. Guilt free. Recycling is what we should be ashamed of unless it's metal. Recycling uses massive amounts of fuel and usually never gets recycled. Just shipping and reselling plastic waste from facility to facility until it gets put in landfill. Truly atrocious!

[@korbinianarnold6919]

@@truecronyNot Recycling plastic would mean we have to get rid of it in different ways.

[@LostCylon]

I'm an Australian. It's well known that Eucalyptus inhibit other plant growth not only by their dropping of bark and leaves that cover the ground, but by chemicals. The plant litter is also highly flammable, and some species only reproduce after fire. This inhibiting other plants and promoting fire causes them to be the dominant species of much of Australia. Indeed, the Wollemi pine was only discovered in 1994, mainly because most of it's habitat had been claimed by Eucalyptus, and it had been reduced to less than 100 trees.

[@straighttalking2090]

very interesting about the Wollemi pine. Looked it up in Wiki after reading your post. thanks. I wonder if the use of fire by ancient Aboriginals aided the expansion of eucalyptus over the Wollemi pine. Just as well it was found when it was. The massive fires of recent years might have wiped it out.

[@LostCylon]

@@straighttalking2090 Eucalypts have been in Australia for at least 30 million years (Probably FAR longer), but Australia has been becoming more arid over that period, with a major drying event happening at least 60,000 to 10,000 years ago. Eucalypts also cover over 3/4 of forest areas, they have 100's of varieties, from small bushes to huge trees. Aboriginies have been in Australia for probably over 100,000 years (Some say double that, some say less).

[@chriswatson7965]

@@straighttalking2090 Use of fire by the aborigines did change the floral landscape, but it probably reduced the total amount of eucalypt forests, in favour of grasslands and similar much more fire resistant biotas. Also, however, there would also have likely have been an even greater impact on the conifers, which are now pretty much relegated only to high rainfall areas, though we don't have any direct evidence for this.

[@straighttalking2090]

@@LostCylon Thanks LostCylon. Appreciated.

[@straighttalking2090]

@@chriswatson7965 Thanks Chris. Australia has so much to wonder about - I appreciate the info, Cheers.

[@HellSpawn83]

This story got dark. It’s awful for anyone to be moved from their home without proper compensation. Stories like this make you think just a little differently about everything by the end. Thank you for putting this out there.

[@rundown132]

SUch is life for poor people

[@marcoscastano04]

It gets worse. This factories throw their waste into the rivers, blasting every living thing and ruin the soil. It was a huge controversy in Argentina years ago because we border the La Plata river (widest river in the world). Now the media does not cover it anymore.

[@Malik-Ibi]

Well. It is singlecrop...

[@tomsko863]

It's hard to watch "how the sausage gets made". The same process was done to extract the rare-earth metals that make up your phone and computer. It's a horror show watching how livestock are kept and slaughtered. The world can feel barbaric if you have excessive empathy.

[@deleted-something]

@@tomsko863”excessive?”

[@arothmanmusic]

"Planting more trees" is generally a good thing, but only if you're planting the right trees in the right places.

[@thebrutaltooth1506]

And their trip inside the monoculture is a great visual example to show this to people who don`t know this information.

[@fluxrider7027]

It is striking how sterile these eucalyptus "forests" appear to be.

[@rizvinbk]

by the right person

[@rizvinbk]

at the right time

[@vojtam5063]

When you compare it to deforestation and then monoculture planting in other parts of world, this is neutral at worst.

[@hispanouruguayo]

uruguayan here.. there is only one part of the video that could be better. The railway in Montevideo is not new, it goes throw the same line where it has been for dacades, so they are putting underground some parts and making it wider in some others, so they are not cutting any neighborhoods, because most of those neighborhoods were built around the railway

[@-JO4K-]

Yes, that’s a very important thing, the railway has only been modernized, it’s not new. The issue is that the infrastructure was from the 1900, now it’s safer

[@Arodrim]

As an uruguayan as well, was thinking that the family that didn't got compensated was because they don't really own the land, but I'm not sure. It's terrible anyways

[@tintin_999]

The government/private company could have built a rail viaduct over the existing rail tracks to provide a metro rail service to the city's people. It would cost more, but would turn it into a win-win for everyone.

[@-JO4K-]

@@tintin_999 but why build metro tracks over the existing rail tracks? The project itself was to “hide” the train as much as possible as well as modernizing the infrastructure. In some areas, over the tracks, you’ll find the streets, it’s not really feasible nor practical to build a metro over them; people can always use the passenger service that will function on the regular tracks

[@alvaro2399]

@@ArodrimParece que lo que pasó es que no quisieron aceptar el acuerdo que les ofreció el gobierno y están peleando para obtener una compensación mayor. Si bien sería espantoso que te expropien tu casa y que se lleven todo, tampoco es como lo pintan en el video porque acá en Uruguay eso no pasa, sería un escándalo.

[@Yolwoocle]

This should be the gold standard for reporting. Interesting, well-researched, and with fantastic production value. Your videos never stop blowing me away and have kept me hooked every single time.

[@I_am_somebody_1234]

We actually were instructed to read this problem for a Humanities class. This type of forest plantation does not only happen because its cheap and convenient, but also because it just so happens that Finland, the country where UPM is based, stablished this activity as ilegal due to the ecological damage it causes. Therefore, they decide to do their work in countries where ecological damages are easier to sweep under the rug, like Uruguay. PS: The book is from Eduardo Galeano, called "Uselo y Tírelo, Nuestro Planeta, Nuestra única casa" (yes i am latin american)

[@squidcaps4308]

What is illegal? 80% of Finnish forests are tree farms, the local nature of course is different so they don't look the same. There are strict rules about replanting, and letting certain portion to stay wild. Trees also grow MUCH slower here which creates more undergrowth. But Finland does largely the same thing, almost any forest you see has been planted. You need to specifically go to national parks to see 300 year old forests.

[@rickrose5377]

Thank you for this.

[@rickrose5377]

​@@squidcaps4308 Well, we have contradictory facts, here. The OP says this kind of land use and forest monoculture is legally prohibited in Finland, and you say just the opposite -- that it's the foundation for Finland's entire native forestry industry. Which is correct?

[@ili626]

Thank you

[@squidcaps4308]

@@rickrose5377 The nature is so different. What is illegal are massive open cuts without replanting. If eucalyptus did grow in Finland you can bet it would be illegal but the forests are very different. You could not keep the undergrowth away even if you tried. So, UPM is doing it in South America because they can, that is 100% the same. But it is not just because of laws, it is just that the nature is SO different above 60th latitude. Trees grow 3-5 slower here. If they could, they would do it here too.

[@vericamedia]

How can a less than 30min video reporting about real events look so captivating than Hollywoods movie nowadays. I feel like we could not get enough for this kind of video. Please keep producing them.

[@Jaspher-gx8cp]

You should watch his report on the Madagascar crater village. That brought me to tears with how captivating and beautiful the storytelling was.

[@vericamedia]

@@Jaspher-gx8cp I've done it multiple time. The one in Algeria is also great. If possible, really want to request him to produce more videos.

[@elguilloteguillenguillotin4155]

As an Uruguayan I tell you. Everything the left touches... will rotern

[@Homer-OJ-Simpson]

This IS a movie. The cinematography, the story telling, the narration, etc.

[@fullcircle.organics]

I live in Oregon. I used to think the endless sea of fir trees was the natural forest. Now I know it is just tree farms. It's been referred to as a "fir desert" and that's accurate. I live adjacent to these plantations and they are devoid of life. The difference in birdsong/shrubs/flowers is stark when compared to the natural forests next door.

[@kentslocum]

I live in Eugene, Oregon, and many of the street trees planted along roadways are all one species. So when they become old or diseased, they all have to be cut down in one fell swoop. I believe there is an effort to mandate a diverse mix of different tree species for replanting efforts, but I am not sure.

[@oteragard8077]

I think it was Drew Durnil, the ytber from California who exposed me to a map showing natural forested areas in the US 300 years ago to modern ones, and nearly all our forests according to whoever made that map have at some point been cut down and replanted. I don't even know if I've been in a purely natural forest before

[@robertunderwood1011]

In the southern United States much of the forest is already been replaced by tree farms. A group called the Dogwood alliance focuses on the problems with this practice The irony is that the greens in Germany don’t want to burn their own coal so our southern forest are harvested as a renewable fuel And shipped to Germany, in wood pellets All that carbon that the tree sequestered for 20 years is burned in 20 minutes, so what is really renewable about it? The irony is that our environment is being compromised by the European green parties

[@kentslocum]

@@robertunderwood1011 Yeah, it's funny how everyone freaks out about nuclear power, when it's literally the cleanest and safest source of power available. 😊

[@supme7558]

Not true

[@lolkekw]

A visible problem is the fact that Eucalyptus isn't the best option for reforestation, I'd say. Even though they grow faster than most trees, planting them outside of their native Australian soil can cause significant damage to the environment. They wouldn’t exactly help the environment; they absorb too much water, and their leaves are toxic to most animals, hindering the creation of new life. Moreover, monocultures in general do not promote biodiversity at all. The program has done an amazing job, and with the right adjustments, it could revitalize the native fauna and flora. The problem is that fast profit seems to be the priority at the moment (which is not bad as long it doesn't affect The environment). If different trees were used, it could completely turn the game around. Imagine undoing hundreds of years of deforestation. Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing program. And Uruguay isn't the only place where eucalyptus is being monocultured (Brazil, for example, also does, and so does most of South America tbh). The wood industry worldwide should rethink its usage.

[@capitaopacoca8454]

Those are not forests, they're crops. Real reforestation is not a goal.

[@cooperolm9687]

​@@capitaopacoca8454 I get what you're saying, but reforestation is the correct term. "Reforestation" doesn't refer only to habitat restoration, it also is the term for the treeplanting industry in general. I did a couple years planting for a reforestation company in Canada.

[@FairMiles]

Didn't miss the problem for the fingerprint! Well done. Two missed mini-chapters: water table depletion (e.g., severe 2023 drought in Uruguay) and air/water contamination (e.g., conflict with Argentina since 2003 because of a UPM-Botnia pulp plant by the Uruguay River in Fray Bentos)

[@fluuufffffy1514]

As an ecologist, it's hurting my ears so much to hear those plantations being referred to as "forests"

[@scottscotty2178]

You will get over it

[@animalswin2105]

​@@scottscotty2178 Silly you

[@VVilde36]

THANK YOU

[@brianisaac1575]

You know it. As a youngster, I spent a few summers with my grandparents whose property was surrounded by national forests. Not understanding that these "woods" as we called them were leased for pulp wood production. Imagine the horror in my young mind arriving for a new summer of adventure to see 100s of acres of trees gone. Nothing but red dirt and an unbelievable mess of wooded debris. It was difficult for me to deal with. Not long after this I was able to explore and roam through an actual forest adjacent to a native reservation which had never been cut.

[@brianisaac1575]

@@scottscotty2178 Most people have never been in an old-growth forest. I understand where fluf is coming from.

[@tapio_m6861]

Here in Finland we have about 30 million hectares of forest, out of which 86% is considered to be "economic", meaning that the end result of that forest is to be sold in some fashion. When seen from a plane, you see constantly massive forests where the trees are planted in neat and tidy rows. The worry about monoculture really woke up here in the 1980s, but while laws have been established since then to help increase the biodiversity of our forests, not much can be done in just a few decades. And our forestry industry is still seen as a national pride, something that cannot be touched because forests are really our one natural resource. And I in some way am proud of them, but stories like this still disgust me. It's unethical, and when UPM founded that factory, it was a big news here because that meant that for UPM, our own forests weren't profitable anymore. It might be due to the increased regulation or the overall price levels, but the end result was that companies such as UPM shut down pulp factories here and built new ones in Uruguay. In some way I feel ashamed to be a Finn for the way this was done by one of our biggest companies. But then again, wood and wood-derived products are needed to help tackle climate change. It just has to be done in an ethical way and this is not it.

[@Aloddff]

A little bit of regulation could go very far. If the science can be used to create corridors of biodiversity to maintain the ecosystem whilst producing more complex multicultures that infix nitrogen and other nutrients and into the soil, the future of the forests and land can be preserved. Deregulation on the other hand promotes economic exploitation without anyone paying for the consequences of permanently denatured land

[@ollie2111]

What about switching to hemp paper & infrastructure? I mean aside from the regulations, I wonder if theoretically that would be a way more eco-friendly situation in comparison to eucalyptus woodlots.

[@tapio_m6861]

@@ollie2111 I am not an expert on these. Does hemp grow as fast as eucalyptus? That's one key benefit for these companies: the trees are "ripe" fast. If someone is an expert on what would be a more sustainable alternative, I would love to hear.

[@ollie2111]

@@tapio_m6861 yes the hemp plant is not a tree and only takes 120 days to grow (looking it up just now). I'm not an expert either btw, I am just fascinated by random things :) I learned about it a year or two ago, that hemp fiber can be a great alternative, but I don't know if there are downsides and I don't get why it's not being switched to if its more practical and clearly way less time consuming. I would like to know if anyone knows if there are any downsides. Cause aside from that, the amount of time and space cut down comparing trees and hemp is significant.

[@aribantala]

Yes, very true. It's not exactly very ethical to do this... Money does makes things go round But there must be something about this that the Uruguayan government also profited. 2 billion dollars worth of industry spawns in the country.

[@AaronHalliday]

Impeccable reporting. This tells such an important story that the title sells it short.

[@DreadDeimos]

While I appreciate this report for the information it gives, I feel like it's a bit lopsided on dramatism. Yes, there's impact on lives and ecology. No, it's not only "corpos bad" and doom and gloom. The report fails to tell the story about jobs created, taxes paid, people that actually got the relocation money, research on the ecology impact (it does tell that a certain percentage of the land staying wild) that can lead to better outcomes in future (they also told that there was a research part of the plantation). I'm not trying to paint it white, but I'd love to see at least some contrast.

[@boyoishere]

@@DreadDeimos It did mention jobs created and positive economic effects, but I agree it does end on a darker note

[@acikacika]

Errr how is this amount of dramatization and James Joyse style storytelling impeccable journalism? Info and the uncovering are a great motive but come on.

[@HelgaCavoli]

Kinda. It focus on HIS initial curiosity. Starting the video we know as much as he does. If the person is as interested as him, they'll go along with the ride.

[@kateapple1]

Yeah, but the title got you to watch the video didn’t it? 😂

[@GD-mw1kd]

Ever heard of eucalyptus oil? That's why nothing grows under those trees if the fallen leaves keep accumulating and decomposing. Eucalyptus has very pungent smell and it acts as deterrent for smaller organisms.

[@nazirkatabaro6347]

I should admit that I have never been left without a ton of wonders just by watching videos from this creator... Very well educative and full of information and sometimes endless piles of questions... Thank you very much for always taking your time to collect, research, produce and share with us all these marvellously well documented videos... I've never regretted watching any of your videos this far... 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

[@victoriaeads6126]

Notice: there aren't any birdsongs or animal noises, even at a distance. No underbrush. It's practically dead.

[@matheuspage1]

In Brazil, a place that suffers with this same problem, we call these as greens deserts. I remember studying at school about how the eucalyptus simply kills everthing around then as a evolution to protect itself, you can see that even grass doesnt grow around it

[@nunya2171]

In Australia where, these trees are actually from, it would be teeming with native wildlife, which is why we aren't allowed to grow and harvest these species because it would be habitat destruction. We also know in Australia the substantial damage that introduced species, both flora and fauna can do when not in their natural environment and the idea of growing these things in such an alien environment sounds like a horrible idea. Here our monoculture plantations are all pine trees, and have the same issue, no wildlife in sight, so nobody can complain about habitat destruction when they are harvested.

[@zacharysherry2910]

Rose bushes do the same thing

[@diemturner5755]

Who cares?

[@stevesteve8098]

It is asset stripping the soil..., it will be totally dead in a few decades, that's why they don't want any other plant competition... it destroys their profit margins...What is worse , this is all carbon positive..... It generates MORE carbon than it uses., trees are generally not carbon negative until year 20.

[@scpatl4now]

What has not been mentioned in this video is that Eucalyptus Trees are extremely flammable and when they burn, they burn very hot. In a drought, it would take very little to have wildfires on an epic scale. Just ask people from Australia and they will confirm this fact (where these trees are actually native)

[@antoniocipolla3259]

no weeds under the tree could helps to prevent fires

[@titaemira]

Same issue in Portugal 😢

[@alfonsomora6028]

Hello, that's true, but I'm from Uruguay and last year we have the worst drought in decades and this tree didn't burn (or are least no one notice). By law all plantación must have a cut-fire around them and there are plenty of observation point with firefighters that are 24/7 watching the plantations.

[@markcassidy1428]

I'm Australian lived through 2 bushfires in Victoria. Yes eucalyptus trees burn, but Einstein all trees native or introduced around the world will burn and especially during droughts.

[@jattikuukunen]

Interesting sidenote: a certain amount of forest is intentionally burned in Finland every year to preserve species that depend on the habitat of burnt forest. Forest fires are a natural phenomeon that is not always negative, especially when the quantity is limited.

[@ViraL_FootprinT.ex.e]

Never thought I'd be so interested in the afforestation project of Uruguay until today. Pretty fascinating stuff.

[@ecognitio9605]

Farming a single tree species for wood pulp after chopping down the natural forest isn't afforestation 😂

[@flamingflesh5976]

@@ecognitio9605 Afforestation is the establishment of a forest or stand of trees (forestation) in an area where there was NO recent tree cover. Those eucalyptus tree farms are planted on grasslands, no? So it is afforestation.

[@darioburstin2418]

Uruguay is mostly natural grassland. There are few Natural forests in Uruguay, Forest here only grow along rivers and streams

[@natalian9876]

Never thought a documentary about trees would be so interesting

[@solomongtravels]

Speaking as someone from California, Eucalyptus trees are a VERY, VERY bad idea. Companies did this in the 1800’s and now non-native Eucalyptus make up many of the forests near my house. I can take a 20 min drive to a eucalyptus forest, and maybe a 40 min - 90 min to a native forest.

[@Katastrophising]

This made me realise how sort of ... comfortable I've gotten with paper. It's so much better than plastic, but that doesn't mean we can't still overproduce and overuse it.

[@lis7742]

We are definitely taking paper for granted, wasting it.

[@aribantala]

I both love and hate how insanely nuanced this topic is. On one side this giant operation prepped a bustling new industry for Uruguay that would easily fund the country for years to come On the other, it destroys already established homes of people already living in Montevideo, displacing them and ruining their livelihoods and also costs Uruguay their natural forests. It's such a rare thing to see in today's journalism Insanely amazing topic and coverage

[@throwaway756]

Uruguay has no big natural forests to speak of. The country is a prairie-type ecosystem (pampas).

[@MooCowo]

If only it were two sided, the only reason UPM came to the country is to take advantage of the country and its people. Uruguay is getting a raw deal, they deserve more in return for the exploitation of their weaker economy.

[@PokeNebula]

@@throwaway756 possibly op meant to say "costs uraguay their natural ecosystems"

[@kusada3035]

not to mention this came from Vox where culture war "news" ran rampant before new management came in, they're making a massive comeback lately

[@martinvinas_]

As said in the video, it doesn´t "fund the country for years to come". They operate in a tax free zone. Has almost no taxes at all including for the plantation part. UPM is a business, they just landed in Uruguay because it was the one that gave up the most, for little to no compensation. Also, cellulose production is very natural resource demanding, including the water used in the actual process that gets contaminated, treated to some extent but not to its original state, and thrown away. Just a loss for Uruguay.

[@kinghenriquevolta]

This reminds me of the situation in the north of Spain, Galicia specifically. As in Uruguay, the wood industry realized that eucaliptus grows very fast and cleared hundreds of acres of the native forest to plant them. We learned the hard way that the end result was not good.

[@PeidosFTW]

our peninsula is now infested with this damed tree now and it is miserable

[@Hitsuji-78078]

Same with Asturias or many other sections in humid Europe.

[@nunya2171]

One of the reasons is also over-regulation here in Australia, where these trees grow naturally, essentially making it near impossible to cut down these species of trees at all. There is even a case in Tasmania where a tree plantation was deemed an "old growth forest" because the trees were planted over 80 years ago. So even though the trees were planted with the express purpose to be harvested, they were not allowed to be touched. Hence places like Uruguay fill in the gap in the market causing other environmental damage, a perfect example of unintended consequences.

[@5roundsrapid263]

Southern California planted them 100 years ago and they’ve been catching fire ever since…

[@superafins]

as a Brazilian living very close to one of the many eucaliptus farms taking over native rainforest, it hurts to hear people call this atrocity a forest. forests are ecosystems brimming with life, whereas eucaliptus farms are basically green wastelands. once the farmers leave, nothing grows back. it's heartbreaking.

[@LiiMuRi]

I'm from Finland and I knew this video was going to talk about the UPM plant. It's been in the news quite a lot, but I still learned a lot from this video. Thanks for the reporting!

[@aMMa1726]

The Central Railway has always been there (since the British built it back in the 1800s). The project just modernized it. There were some mismanagement in the construction process leading to the problems mentioned, but 99% of the land expropriated were not homes. From all the bad that UPM does to this country, the Central Railway is not one. It is something that Uruguay needed to reduce transportation costs across all industries, since it has the most expensive transpo cost of the region.

[@tunnelsloth5948]

What are some of the bad things they do?

[@aMMa1726]

@@tunnelsloth5948 For instance, contamination of rivers which results in total extermination of all species and the contamination of all the surrounding soil + water which is used as farmland. This just happened some months ago with a spill of high concentrated caustic soda to the most important river of Uruguay.

[@EMackeycreates]

This is absolutely PHENOMENAL journalism! He went were the story took him and gave so much context. Brilliant storytelling, that was brilliantly shot. This was excellent!

[@diemturner5755]

If vapidity had mass your skull would have caved in on itself by now. Worst piece of "journalism" and storytelling since the telephone book of any year in history ever.

[@alfonsomora6028]

I'm from Uruguay and I can say this video was really informative and educative! As a science student , a important thing that didn't mention is that's the ground/soil takes hundred to thousands of years to re generate and become productive again (despite the land owners use to plant another generation of trees after they deforest). Another thing to mention is that the mayority of the other 70% owners of the trees plantations are a couple of family's such as the actual president family, some ministers and other associated people.

[@ardencho662]

sick

[@Ricardo-lb4so]

Bien dicho Alfonso. A ver si el Frente Amplio logra revertir esto. Abrazo desde perú

[@wile123456]

So its all corruption too

[@OzzieStorm]

@@wile123456 from everything that is happening in the world today, what isn't corruption anymore.

[@kart182]

Wow

[@Claudia-Ayuso]

This was brilliant. My family is from Uruguay and as a child my brother and I saw 'Fuera papeleras' signs everywhere. I was never curious enough to pull the thread. Thanks Christophe.

[@billythekidrsa]

I really like the way your content is structured, it is very informative. I also like how you interact with industry professionals to get precise information instead of just assumptions. I've learned a lot with just 2 videos and I'm keen to watch more.👏

[@rosbelladevy]

Hands down to one of Vox's most compelling storytelling and impeccable production quality🙌🏼

[@dysonforbes]

monoculture woodlots are not forests.

[@parasocialbondsmetaswvoits9078]

thank you

[@Hypotaksen]

Yeah. We learned that by watching the video. But thanks for summarizing it for us.

[@disorganizedorg]

They are forests by any sane definition.

[@pistolen87]

Aren't woodlots are a type of forest?

[@Bananappleboy]

​​@@disorganizedorgNot by ecosystem or in pre-existing natural origin, no. They're plantations, not naturally grown without human intervention, but forests nontheless. (definitions ftw)

[@tomholroyd7519]

When you said, "what comes next" I was hoping it would be how they replant the land, add nutrients that were removed, etc. Part 2? Do they seed it with bacteria and fungi, leave it a year, then plant again?

[@briankelly1240]

This! I want to know the same!

[@gabriellarowden9442]

Yea me too!

[@uggali]

Restore back to grassland!

[@thewisefool4049]

Generally they'll prep it and replant more trees. Presumably they have an amount of land that means they can cycle trough the whole amount every 10 years. It's essentially farmland, just the crops are multi year.

[@fullcircle.organics]

Here in Oregon after they harvest the timber they spray tons of chemicals so nothing else will grow and compete. There is no crop rotation just 100% douglas fir. I was appalled to see how many large tanker trucks they sprayed after harvesting a small clear cut by my house. My neighbor retired from Weyerhaeuser (they own almost all the private forest land in OR) and said they spray stuff so nasty nothing else will grow for 4 years. All these lands are above pristine creeks that flow into our main rivers. It's a wonder we have any salmon left.

[@celinaalarcon6781]

Although this documentary has a sad end, it was a formidable and well presented information showing the both faces of the coin. Congratulations to the makers!

[@ibuprofenPill]

You didn't need to travel to South America to see this. This has been going on in Arkansas for decades. Weyerhauser has been planting and harvesting pine trees to the determent of local species. They don't plant following the contour of the terrain, but in a lot of places you can see clear tree rows on Google Earth.

[@ShapeShifter499]

Vox, never change please. You and your team always manage to find the obscure curiosities about the world. Stuff hiding in plain sight but almost no one outside of the area really knows much about. Bringing light to things that probably should be talked more about.

[@kevinoviedo9718]

This is the kind of journalism the world needs. Thank you.

[@michaelg1778]

So interesting how this story unfolded. For the first half I was like, "that's so interesting, more trees!". Then it the rest came to light and changed my entire perspective. Well done.

[@onthefive5615]

Your thoroughness from every angle makes your channel #1 in documentaries. I appreciate your efforts tremendously.

[@Summitic]

16:02 This is very interesting.....More Adventures like these, Please !

[@imperatacylindrica8993]

We should really distinguish planting trees from planting forests

[@kaeptive]

I'm absolutely captivated by the storytelling and how it seamlessly flows from one topic to the next. Lovely as always, thanks Vox!

[@diemturner5755]

People like you get captivated by the storytelling of molecules at absolute zero. There wasn't even a crumb of a speck of a morsel of a hash brown of storytelling anywhere in the last 30 minutes. The fact that you think that there was only confirms that your parents didn't read to you in bed when you were a child and that, as a result, your cerebral development was severely stunted and never recovered.

[@pacjam418]

Mossy Earth on KZbin has a some great videos on barren monoculture forests and how they’re trying to correct the problems by flooding forests, removing trees etc & get the understory to come alive again. It’s a really good channel & so is Vox…Interesting stuff.

[@Ruby-zb5lp]

The entire story is such a rollercoaster. I was left completely sad by the end of a story that seemed very hopeful and bright. Great work Christophe and Team!

[@carlospadilla7194]

I just discovered your videos & have binge watched your coverage on topics from fingerprint forests in Uruguay, to a village in the middle of nowhere in Madagascar. You're inquisitive eye and great storytelling are an amazing match. You're very good at what you do, and I loon forward to following more of your discoveries.

[@christophercook12C]

"Trucks full of logs driving out- empty trucks coming back". I once worked on a farm and saw the same with trucks full of harvested potatoes. They never brought anything back either.

[@isaaccaraballo5359]

I think he meant it as a parallel with the fact that this company is not really nurturing the land that it's profiting from, they may be giving the scraps of the profit that the government obligates them to, but it's not sustainable enough, or at least not for the land or the people that are being left out of their own homes without compensation

[@robertunderwood1011]

You don’t know about it, but it is really no secret. If you were willing to eat organisms like bacteria yeast fun and algae you can survive on manufactured food nutritionally as good as the stuff you’re eating now and potentially a whole lot cheaper

[@Kwijiboi]

They brought back capacity.

[@Kwijiboi]

They brought back capacity.

[@notlilyspears]

That part had me laughing. What else do you expect on a tree farm? Logging tucks? I'm shocked. They were really stretching to make this a story

[@21Kuranashi]

Yo eucalyptus depreciates the soil fertility by a lot. What happens to the soil afterwards? Does anything grow there at all? How long would it take for the soil to recover (without human intervention)? How many decades does the land go back in ecological succession? I feel you guys should really dig more into this. Just how much damage does this industry have on our planet? This video currently, feels incomplete. Please make a video or 2 to talk more about the aforementioned questions.

[@tondekoddar7837]

Yes, also compare where could the packaging material etc could be done more ecologically, how many % of Uruguay area is this monoculture. This was big news years ago when it was starting (in news in Finland, and main news did cover all sides, with reporters going to those displaced people, and those getting employment - well, not so much those since not so flashy news)... But yeah, making plastics and the material downriver from said chemical plants compared to this, can't know. I'm also not sure, I thought there were "safety areas" so total ecosystems wouldn't be destroyed, and still I don't think whole countrys grasslands ecosystems are gone. I do hope some more digging into it too.

[@diemturner5755]

No, the soil is worthless when they're done with it which is why they make mud cakes out of it and sell them to Haiti.

[@RuiSilva-rw6vl]

I can tell you about my experience with a 2-hectare piece of land. Around 20 years ago, this land was composed mainly of eucalyptus and pine trees with some native trees. it was not a planned monoculture (everything in rows as you see in the video) but was used for wood production. The land was very poor and dry, the water mine on the ground had been dry for years. It was decided to cut down all the eucalyptus and pine trees one year, leaving the few native species to thrive, but no major interventions were made. The following year my water started running, which wasn't strange without the trees to absorb the water. The eucalyptus trees began to sprout again and grow. Several cuts were necessary for the eucalyptus trees to stop growing. The remaining species had more space to grow and take over the land. After 20 years, the entire land is covered by native species, two majority species in the same number plus and around 10 different species in small numbers that account for around 15% of the total. The water line continues to flow. No intervention was carried out, no trees were planted, they grew naturally with seeds from plants already on the field and others carried by the wind. The soil remains very weak, however most of the organic matter remains in the soil, including dead trees. Some areas show signs of improvement, especially in areas with more trees. And there is a huge difference in the number of animals that live in space. After 20 years the land is undoubtedly better than it was, but the process could probably have been speeded up if some measures were put in place.

[@justsiphe4281]

i love when a google image screenshot sparks a whole research video!!!

[@christophergaspar6520]

remember the Madagascar video!? same concept, super cool

[@galaxywizard8904]

​@@christophergaspar6520and the Sahara video which was the first one in this entire series

[@adiabd1]

All thanks to a spark of curiosity

[@justsiphe4281]

@@christophergaspar6520 its still the coolest video they have yet!!!😭

[@MadamHoneyB]

I really enjoyed learning about this!! Guess that’s why you have 12M+ subscribers! Lolol This was put together beautifully. You’re headed for big things!! Just thought I’d throw a little sunshine your way!! Y’all be good and take care!! 🫶🏼✌🏼Peace✌🏼🫶🏼

[@unfilteredjosh906]

Please continue to DO MORE CONTENT like this. Its the best content here in this channel

[@deluca9805]

Forestry Firefighter here, that brush on the ground looks severely flammable. Do the forests ever have fires here?

[@anonmouse6337]

Eucalyptus is very flammable. In Australia there's a place called the Blue Mountains bc the trees release so much gas clouds that everything has a blue cast. Idk if there are fires in this plantation but it sounds like it's something they've considered because the vid mentions they have firebreaks.

[@joncohen6059]

I'm sure they have some high tech system to put it out quickly to protect their profits

[@eruditeboi]

We have plenty but monoculture plantations usually are not extensive, but scattered among a large area, so that when one starts to burn it generally won't jump to other monocultures. However when the fires are big enough, they burn through the firebreak and absolutely devastate a considerable part of the country. But generally it's cheaper to let it burn that actually prevent anything, nothing high tech here

[@HF7-AD]

Uruguayan here. All the time, they're usually not big but in summer they happen constantly, it's usually not a problem in the middle of nowhere areas but it's more of an issue when it's closer to population centers because it makes them harder to put out

[@PeidosFTW]

yes, here in portugal, many forest are infested with eucalyptus and they are a plague during the summer because of how easily they can start a huge fire

[@DBBravo]

I live in northern Spain where we also have some relatively important pulp production. These plants STINK and you can see how out of place the eucalyptusses are in comparison to our native forests. Slowly but surely vivid orange and yellow autumms become increasingly dull

[@Cookiepresident]

That's the thing what I noticed when I was in northern Spain. Those forest are so quiet, too quiet.

[@Blehstor]

@@Cookiepresident its dead land, only wood comes out of there.. they're killing land literally

[@squidcaps4308]

There is UPM plant next town, has been there all my life. It used to stink regularly but these days it stinks twice a year. They recycle the gases now, and only when there is maintenance shut down does the stink get out. It is much more potent for sure but at least it is just twice a year. If your plants stink all the time... well, there is a solution for that. People just have to demand it.

[@bflmpsvz147]

I would not call the Centrail railway "new". Yes it's been upgraded in the past few years and in several stretches "straightened", but outside Montevideo. In Capurro it "divides" the suburb for decades the same way. (Which does not mean that some houses weren't newly demolished because of these recent construction works - but it is not a totally new railway as the video suggests).

[@jangxx]

Yeah I was wondering about that. The map at 20:55 looks like the railway could've easily gone around the city as well. Makes sense that it has been there for a long time.

[@tomascaetano5011]

they are not "new" the route its the same but the rail itself is brand new, made with the newests standards and materials.. this is why they had to take those properties form poeople because of the security practices... they couldnt have people living next to it. Back to the old railroad... these standards did not exist yet.. prob 100+ years ago.. so in terms of doing something "right" makes sense to take that land... what I dont approve is the goverment not paying for it yet..

[@Valery0p5]

In my country people get paid in advance, and if they drag their feet with attorneys and such can even ask for an higher compensation, slowing the works down... Projects need to be made to reduce their impact as much as possible and people need to get paid, this is an issue of democracy, only indirectly connected to the pulp industry

[@csr7080]

For all the issues with the pulp production, it's still good that the transport will mostly be by train instead of purely by truck. Expropriation is always heartbreaking for the people affected and of course there needs to be proper compensation, but all in all I'd still rather see rail infrastructure strengthened.

[@Frey_79]

The extend and the quality of this video's content is amazing. Thanks for the great work and sharing.

[@syzygy_of_stars]

this has to be my favorite YT video series (along with Ted Ed animated videos). I mean, this is guy is just the personification of dedication. he doesn't even know how much he inspires.

[@masiv1001]

One aspect not mentioned in the video was the reason they plant the trees along contour lines, so here's (as far as I'm aware of) an explanation of it, TLDR: The main drive behind planting them that way is so that they oppose water, thus preventing erosion (loss of nutrients), and keeping water for as long as possible. As water flows downhill, were the trees planted parallel to the inclination, would mean a lower yield on production as some of the soil/plants would 1. get washed away due to the lack of proper vegetation, washing nutrients from the soil 2. make the water not infiltrate as much, as the soil water concentration increases, inversely does the timed required for it to absorb more water, by letting the water rest longer, you increase the soil water saturation. This is not particular of forest plantations either, but it a lot more obvious because of the tree covers. It would have been a great addition to the video were this explained, but it may have not made sense from a narrative point of view (only speculation). Still, the video was surprising good, I didn't expect them to grasp the social aspect of it, and what it really means for these kind of corporations to be so entangled with production, I would have loved if they went a little bit further and explicitly how this is consequence of the capitalist society we live in, and the division between countries, but maybe that's too much to ask.

[@RobboElRobbo]

This is just like mosaic here on vancouver island, a company who owns almost the entire island and has turned it into a lifeless tree farm just like in this video

[@CoryDAnimates]

I feel bad for that one scientist who gave the topology answer. One question and that is all. His lab looks like what movie production make out what an ideal research labs to be. Very modern.

[@evindrews]

I'm sure they shot a whole interview and it was just cut

[@Adrischa]

Great video. I wasn't super interested in the beginning, but turned out great and worth it! Keep up the good work

[@darthprovader]

The forresty industry helps Uruguay massively and will help even more in the future as further investments turn into infrastructure. Though the plantations affects the enviroment it is minimal. If that land wasn't used for planting it would've been used for cattle. However the enviroment is still affected. There's a risk of fires and people have been kicked onto the streets. I feel like this will help Uruguay more In the future as it currently struggles to move up the ladder in its path to development

[@JonathanBondu]

Great documentary. Thank you. I'm glad the ecological cost of those monoculture was discussed.

[@rozkaz661]

Thats actually a really good report, quality jurnalism, eye catching premise, surprising twist, conclusions quite in depth and with nuance. This is what the job is about

[@mirrorsreflectyou]

These are the type of stories to look out for. Niche yet super interesting and great to watch.

[@buizelmeme6288]

24:12 the part where he talks about the ants makes me want to cry, very great story telling there!!

[@alexyoung-davies100]

I absolutely love these videos. This is the third in this style and they just keep getting better and better. Please keep them coming.

[@Hackney_Boy-DoesntReadReplies]

There is a similar problem for wildlife in Scotland but from reforestation with a single non-native species the Douglas Fir.

[@OutsideYourBox]

They had one built in a village in my country. The pines not only get rid of wildlife, it alao drains a lot of water from the ground. On top of that the ground can not absorb moisture, so it causes floods.

[@kirbybwch2805]

This might be my favorite Vox video yet. The reporting and storytelling is incredible. You've really outdone yourself Christophe, this is amazing!

[@Razielezu1]

There were huge protests in neighbouring Argentina regarding the contamination of shared rivers by the Uruguayan pulp industries.

[@divyajami5458]

Wow, I love how this video is structured and explains the overlooked aspects of the afforestation.

[@정서윤-h3v]

It's just a huge plantation rather than a eco friendly forest

[@zoch9797]

Spent 25 minutes to explain a 2 minute query.

[@chazdomingo475]

We have this here in the US with loblolly pines. Pines are native to the US, however, and they do provide more biodiversity than these Eucalyptus. Still, the forest industry uses land just like any other industrialized agriculture and inevitably there will be environmental concerns with that.

[@disorganizedorg]

12:18 Apparently Uruguay has no shortage of personal injury lawyers.

[@oteragard8077]

I like the irony of "shinguards to protect against snakes" and 15:37 "the trees have already killed everything underneath them"

[@robertunderwood1011]

For the last hundred years or so, the holy Grail of bio technology is the fixation of nitrogen at low temperature and pressures I think we are close Be ready to stand up and cheer !

[@peterzeller5736]

I started the video thinking "Oh this might be somewhat interesting" and became glued to the screen because of how fascinating the story became. Thanks for the quality research Vox!

[@marcosribeiro8502]

You guys should do the same but in Portugal! The situation there is similar. Lots and lots of fires happening every year so people can buy wild lands at cheaper prices, destroying all the biodiversity, just to then plant eucalyptus which in turn desert the soil and create more wildfires. It would make for a really interesting and eyeopening story. Most Portuguese people don't even think about this issue that's consuming the country

[@blanku9092]

I loved this video! Investigative journalism is so important

[@AndorranStairway]

Dang Cristoph, Vox finally agreed to fund a trip for you after the success of your adventure videos eh? 😂

[@throwaway756]

Christophe: *_*starts checking satellite photos of the moon_**

[@Blex_040]

Next video: Why are the maldive islands so weirdly shaped? Christoph: I had to go to this five star luxury island resort for a week to figure something out about the shape of these islands :D

[@Doping1234]

The piece was great, but kinda missed the explanation of why big plants are planted on contour lines. Just a bit more information would have been much more satisfying.

[@joaquinclavijo7052]

They're planted by machines, they need to be in line

[@masiv1001]

@@joaquinclavijo7052 That's not the main reason though, TLDR, the main drive behind planting them that way is so that they oppose water, thus preventing erosion (loss of nutrients), and keeping water for as long as possible. As water flows downhill, were the trees planted parallel to the inclination, would mean a lower yield on production as some of the soil would 1. get washed away due to the lack of proper vegetation, washing nutrients from the soil 2. make the water not infiltrate as much, as the soil water concentration increases, inversely does the timed required for it to absorb more water, by letting the water rest longer, you increase the soil water saturation. This is not particular of forest plantations either, but it a lot more obvious because of the tree covers. It would have been a great addition to the video were this explained, but it may have not made sense from a narrative point of view (only speculation). Still, the video was surprising good, I didn't expect them to grasp the social aspect of it, and what it really means for these kind of corporations to be so entangled with production, I would have loved if they went a little bit further and explicitly how this is consequence of the capitalist society we live in, and the division between countries, but maybe that's too much to ask.

[@mecharoo]

yeah, i felt the interview with the scientist and the guide was a bit short. however the interview in the end with the displaced homeowners was eye opening.

[@Amped4Life]

Its because contour lines arent that interesting. It just follows topography woohoo. ​@jonathanwei2477

[@thabomaepa1298]

Kudos to the team! great journalism!!

[@H4CK41D]

loving these google maps deep dives, it's like witnessing adventures child me could only dream of and it makes me so happy. keep up the great work!

[@prasanth2601]

Isn't it intriguing to think that somewhere in Finland, the owners or higher-ups of UPM are watching this video, just like us, and might be fuming right now because you've somewhat painted them as villains in this episode?

[@tybronx2446]

Good

[@eQualizeri]

They have had their share of bad press for decades. This is nothing new.

[@AB-wf8ek]

I'm pretty sure they don't care and this video hardly affects them

[@tapio_m6861]

As if this is UPM's first rodeo.

[@SlightyLessEvolved]

They aren't villains. They just aren't heroes either.

[@denonvilliers]

Vox discovering the concept of ''green deserts'', something we learn in elementary schools here in Brazil.

[@JH-pt6ih]

lol - the entire video is for young people learning what has been known for years. It's the level "documentary" videos mostly exist in today - 101 level and often replete with simplistic ideas that create the "a little information is dangerous" situation.

[@capitaopacoca8454]

Americans learning geography for the first time lol

[@Grayson_Wu]

ohhh, my fav series, good job Christophe

[@pureconciousnessn]

Really enjoy the content. Your curiousity made my day. please keep doing this!

[@Summitic]

Please make more episodes like this. We can donate to help you make them ! Please 🙏🙏

[@lfeng15]

Wild for sure. You'd think they'd get their money for their home ASAP given how severe a disruption that is.

[@producedbypodcast]

Cannot imagine the work behind such a video, the production value is amazing. More of this, please! Keep it up!

[@devduttsinh4704]

A perf documentry! I am missing this type of content after we stopped watching TV and they stopped broadcasting! Please make more like this!

[@ginowang3239]

This video is so incredibly well executed. Fantastic job guys.

[@TanukiOfficial]

Thank you for quickly answering the question posed in the video title. And, then moving on to how, why, and what this mean for the people and the environment.

[@justtolivecomment]

Driving behind log trucks? someone hasn't seen Final Destination 2...

[@olsim1730]

Or someone doesn't live in a programmed fantasy world like you...

[@justtolivecomment]

@@olsim1730 brah...

[@josephmagana6235]

Such a weird stunt, like the existence of the paper mill was a secret he had to uncover?

[@zeearrgunn]

Thanks for your journalism. ❤

[@88zachary88]

I have somewhat of a problem with the logic at 18:30 because if the pulp wasn’t produced in these “forests” it would have to come from somewhere. I’m not sure we can pin the demand for *checks notes* toilet paper on UPM. I wish the pulp was produced in a less harmful way but I don’t feel like the ultimate end of this wood in particular is a good reason to pass judgment on these particular forests. Wood is fungible!

[@DawnDavidson]

Wood in general, yes. But this particular wood is not a good idea for many reasons, especially because eucalyptus toxifies soil for other plants. Monocultures are bad, and monoculture eucalyptus is particularly bad.

[@josephmagana6235]

​@@DawnDavidsonIt's called a farm. 8 billion people can't live off the land like hunter gathers while expecting to consume mountains of fresh clean paper.

[@Madeline.Graceee]

This is a masterpiece truly, I love how you can turn nothing into something just with curiosity. It’s inspiring. 😊

[@marisapatch431]

From the loss of the native grasslands that provide food and habitat for so many animals to the loss of homes severing peoples connection to place in communities across Uruguay, all in the name of consumerism. We are all so much poorer for it. This video was so well done, thank you.