VR in Flightsim | Sometimes Less is More!

[@Tygrmoth]

Happy new year to you Mark, you’re one of the best MSFS creators out there. I always look forward to your next vid.

[@SimHangerFS]

Happy new year!

[@Virtusim]

Thank you Mark for your insights. Wishing you a very happy new year. Greetings, Mike

[@Back2TheBike]

Thanks for your SME wisdom in flight sim Mark, really helped me as a relative novice to find my feet. As an XP12 user of 2 years, I've pondered VR but no obvious solution exists. I've just bought a 55" LG B4 and Alpha Yoke and it's transformed my experience. Cockpit instruments so big I can read them, and with my Tobii I can scan. Happy bunny me, Happy New year to you sir.

[@luckysflyingservice]

Talk about immersion, I received my HF8 yesterday and only had time to test it in 2D. I can’t wait to use it in VR I believe that it be even more immersive. Thanks for you videos on the pad Mark.

[@luizucchetto2528]

I fly mainly DCS and IL2. I bought a quest 2 two years ago. It was affordable and gave me a chance to see what VR was all about in flying sims and whether I would enjoy it or not. The Quest 2 was affordable and with my RTX 3070 ti I could run it at low settings. I was blown away by the new visuals that VR gave me. I had TrackIR and a flat screen for years but this was a whole different level. After 1 year I sold my Quest 2 and bought a Quest 3. The graphics were even better than before. However the increase number of pixels in the Quest 3 forced me to buy a 4080 Super to drive it. I am happy now as I can turn up the game settings and really see some great visuals with good performance. The Quest 3 has limitations with the compression software, while pretty good, does limit the quality and fps. Would I ever go back? NO. To new people whom are interested in VR sim flying and do not have a lot of cash, buy a second hand Quest 2 or Quest 3s to see if you enjoy the experience and see how your system handles the new load. If you enoy it as much as I did, then you can start saving for a newer head set and an upgrade to your computer system. You will be able to sell your current headset to partly fund your new headset. Just be careful that if you enjoy as much as I did the long slipperly slope of getting good peformance and quality visuals can be expensive.

[@regwatson2017]

Great advice. I want a 4080 Super too. The old 3070 has served me well but time to update. I bought a 9800X3D and will be building soon !

[@Cellinsky-2302]

Very good advice. I agree for everything you state here. If I could wish for 2025: Better implementation and optimisation of VR in ANY sim. There is plenty of room for improvement left. Aerofly 4 as a guide, maybe. Best implementation to date, IMHO. Hope we see lots more cool vids on this channel in 2025. Thank you Mark and all the best in the new year.

[@tasercs]

Thanks for that Mark. Happy New Year to you. We can always rely on your balanced and honest views. Personally, I'm trying to forget 2024 as far as my hobby goes. My Pimax experience was awful and I wont ever be buying from them again. And we can only wait and hope that FS2024 is improved by this time next year. Thankfully, my Virpil experience could not have been any better. What a model company. I spent a smal fortune with them in the sales and I think what I got was worth every penny.

[@philb1167]

I agree 100% with your comments in this video. Quest 3 has advantage of being useful for other things even when you find your PC is not up to the job for flight sims.

[@LulzSecvirusinvader]

And Optimization and updates are world class..

[@patc860]

I always enjoy your videos Mark, each one is narrated perfectly. All the best for 2025.

[@seattime4075]

Love my Q3, amazing value and cannot do without the passthrough so that I'm not 'blind' in using my peripherals.

[@steeltribe3967]

Great video as always. Thanks.

[@mike605]

I am looking at VR once again..LOL. I wish we had a store here where you could try on different VR head sets and test them out. we don't have a computer stores around here any more since the pandemic. wish we had a micro center here in Seattle..LOL.

[@soulofastro]

It's a shame the Quest Pro never caught on. It's the most comfortable headset with the best features and optics I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot).

[@seattime4075]

Likely the price scared many.

[@Bardicus-o3t]

HNY Mark. This video is completely spot on. I had a G2 and when I found out MS were going to turn it into a brick I got a Pico4. Now I didnt really have a problem with the Pico After I made some mods suggested by yourself it was really good and very comfortable. Then I got a bit caught up in the Pimax Crystal Light frenzy and late one night things got the better of me and I ordered one. And I got a good one too. Fabulous headset. But for me even with every mod known to man it is just so uncomfortable . Now comfort is incredibly important for immersion. You cant dream you are flying through the clouds if all you can think about is the pain in your neck and the bit of plastic rubbing into your nose. So I went back to the Pico. What a relief. Yes I have to zoom in to read some of the dials etc etc but overall for me it gives a more immersive experience. So a real world example of buyers remorse. As an aside, I understand that the Pico4 Ultra is now avaliable in the UK. Are you going to be able to get hold of one for a review ?

[@SimHangerFS]

@@Bardicus-o3t the Pico 4 Ultra has a number of upgrades when used in stand alone mode, but for wired or wireless operation there is no difference between the two headsets. For flightsim the upgrade offers nothing new unfortunately.

[@Bardicus-o3t]

@@SimHangerFS Ah OK. I do other stuff in VR as well as Flight Sim so maybe I will give it a try when they release it in Aus. If so I'll let you know how it goes. I suppose I will have some $$$ from moving on my Pimax, but I am strangely loath to sell it. Maybe I am hoping my head will miraculously change shape.

[@imellor711]

Agreed, In VR even running on a RTX3070 i only get smooth detailed visuals using VR resolution at 2560 x1080, medium to low in-game graphic settings which still look fuzzy due to low anti aliasing(AA). When using my Quest 2 VR headset. Compared to playing MSFS with much higher FPS with stunning full fidelity graphics clean lines (high AA) running in 2K, or at 2560 x 1446 resolution on mu UHD wide monitor, with Beam IR face and eye tracking. So flying in VR means quite a lot of sacrifice, but VR does place you in the middle of you aircraft in the middle of the world wise map, looking out over you egine and wings. Nothing can beat that as an experience....

[@TheLincolnshireFlyer]

Thank you for the video 👍😊

[@adrianlindsay3194]

Thanks for the great video!

[@alanpaul1234]

Very useful Mark. I think I will stick with my Tobii system for now and see what 2025 brings. All the best, Flying Fool Alan.

[@At0micGarden]

Quest3 with the Bobo M3 pro head strap has been my sweet spot with a 4090. I’m really looking forward to seeing if valve will bring a VR headset to market this year.

[@thomas_ger4098]

I agree to everything you stated here.

[@ceoverona1929]

Some people in the forum under your topic don't seem to understand what exactly is meant and comment with the "argument that there are various developers who only focus on WUs and work independently of the whole thing. But you have to understand that there are bugs and sometimes huge problems in all areas, even if it is Gaya, for example, who makes the scenery... well, not all airports are still adapted to the differences in altitude, updated when there are new terminals/buildings, have performance problems, look bad, have totally uneven taxiways and runways and the never-ending story with double windsocks and blowing in the opposite direction of the wind. Then Gaya also leaves all this work behind because a new WU is on the way. That's just a small example. Everything is affected. Some older Local Legends and Famos Flyers are now unflyable and not only don't get any updates, they don't even get the new MSFS 2024 features. Then these developers move on and hardly have any time for the new FF and LL. It hurts me personally to see such beautiful and legendary aircraft being implemented so poorly and left behind. The Aviators Edition is a SCAM!

[@grzegorztomasiak]

i agree

[@baomao7243]

I remember pondering the marketing decision to offer Aviators Edition. My spidey sense told me it was a “bridge too far” that was conceived in marketing but without thinking through and securing all the engineering resources required to deliver its promised (hyped) value. This fear was amplified by my fear that the MSFS2024 launch would be poor, just like MSFS2020. I hate it when i’m right…☹️

[@JasonMoon111]

i have been telling this all the time. Some people got pretty offensive, when I suggested PSVR2 or Quest 3 for PCVR. I just say, it is better to get acceptable frame rates compared to resolution.

[@Drmerlin604]

Of course yo are absolutely right Mark. However, you did not mention when the software fails to live up to the hype…. I get almost perfect clarity and performance at the highest resolutions using the Varjo Aero in MSFS2020. However, Despite exceeding all of the specs in MS2024, the performance of the Aero is dreadful. MSFS2024 is definitely the crippled elephant in the room for VR. My advice would be to hold off on all new purchases of all hardware until the walking simulator, MSFS2024 is out of beta….

[@baomao7243]

Buyers remorse? Yes. Paying up to acquire an HP Reverb G2 to get a high-res headset based on MSFT Mixed Reality. Bad decision. What a fiasco.

[@Terry-q7y]

I am still using a Rift S, my Quest 3 sits in the cupboard doing nothing

[@jackr.749]

Great video Mark. Agreed, the new headsets are outpacing the current and next gen computer hardware, I'd be surprised if the 5090 can run the Crystal Light at full resolution at 90hz for most titles (MSFS not included), let alone the upcoming Crystal Super with even more resolution. As for optics, yes, very nice to get away from fresnel lenses, it would be nice if they could come up with something like a hybrid aspheric lens, one that allows all the light through of a aspheric lens but with the full edge to edge clarity of a pancake lens. The biggest problem with pancake lenses is the panels have to be extremely bright since only 10% of that light makes it to your eyes. With aspheric lenses, a lot of light makes it to your eyes but with slight distortions in the image (warping and so on), some people just cannot get use to aspheric lenses due to these distortions, Personally, I don't see them in my Crystal Light but many people complain about it.

[@MrAnthonyfrench]

That's interesting when you say you can't see the distortions in you're pimax crystal. So do you not get any barrel distortion that's noticeable ? The reason i ask is because i wonder if it's a fault, the fact a lot of other people complain about it may mean it's just a problem with the design or it may mean there are a lot of headsets that are faulty beyond what is acceptable but people keep them thinking it's just them that can't get on with lense type. I find the barrel distortion more noticeable when i look down at the ground while the aircraft is on the ground, it appears the plane is perched on a little mound, or if you look towards the pedals the cockpit is distorted or if in a menu screen and looking at a square, the middle bulges out towards me. I've been using the Crystal a few weeks now and it just bugs the shi* out of me as it spoils the immersion so much. I feel more immersed in the quest 3 even though the resolution is terrible compared to the crystal light.

[@jackr.749]

@@MrAnthonyfrench I do get some kind of warping depending on the scene and when I move my head side to side (Barrel Distortion?), but for the most part, everything looks pretty good to me. It seems the lenses do have a sweet spot that is fairly small (bigger than any fresnel though), for myself, I have to have the headset fairly low on my nose to get into it, but once in that sweet spot, WOW! everything looks really amazing and I'm not sure if those distortions happen then. I'll have to see if I can spot the distortions when in that perfect sweet spot. Agreed, I also have a Quest 3, amazing HMD for it's price point, I use it on my upstairs computer for non sim stuff.

[@MrAnthonyfrench]

@@jackr.749 Thanks for that, it does make me a bit worried that there are a lot of different grades of lense rather than just 2 types (correct and not correct) the fact that mine might be 50% bad and could be better. The returns process is a nightmare and i could get a replacement that it worse still. such a minefield and it's so subjective. So just to clarify, when your looking at the first menu screen in msfs2024 for example, when looking at the square with all the options in (Free roam,career,marketplace etc) does the middle not bulge out towards you ? even in the sweet spot. I know what you mean about the sweet spot because if you're not in it you get chromatic aberration towards the periphery but i notice the barrel distortion even when i'm looking at the wing strut in the sensor (that's another good test actually, looking at the wingstrut that goes up to the wing and to me it looks curved) If you don't mind when you get chance let me know if it's just me or if it's "Normal" for the headset. TIA

[@jackr.749]

@@MrAnthonyfrench Supposedly, Pimax has changed companies that make the lenses, seems to be having much better quality with the new manufacturer so it might be worth your while to put in a support ticket for new lenses, from what you say, sounds like you have bad ones. I will try and pay extra attention next time I'm in MSFS 2020 to the menu screen to see if I can spot any distortions but I think I would have spotted that by now and from memory, I can't say I do, looks great to me. I think I got real lucky with my PCL, I actually got a good one, or my eyes aren't as good as younger people (I'm 65) LOL 🤪

[@jackr.749]

@@MrAnthonyfrench Hello, I just tested but using MSFS 2020 (I don't have 2024), and while at the menu with the grey grid surrounding it) I saw no distortions at all, was like using the Quest 3. As for Chromatic aberrations, I get none. I moved my head from side to side while at the menu screen, no distortions either, not in the menu items or in the grey grid. My guess, you have bad lenses, Pimax can send just the lenses and you put them in, might be worth looking into, hopefully they are sending out replacement lenses from the new manufacturer. Best of luck to you getting your PCL sorted out, it is a amazing HMD when everything works as it should.

[@burtleboeuf1429]

I think I've come to the conclusion, as a quest 3 owner with an underperforming 3060ti (i've adapted it for MSFS to try it out rather than specifically for MSFS as I use it for lots of other things) that I'm not going to upgrade either headset or pc hardware in at least the next few years, for frankly, the marginal gains in experience that would achieve. I'd like to move to PCVR but the three things stopping me currently are: 1. Comfort/form factor and usability just isn't there yet and won't be for quite a while. For me this is the key metric. 2. The graphics available in native VR or VR adapted titles aren't yet sufficiently good to make me feel immersed, i think it will take another 4 to 6 years to feel real 3. As you say, the hardware needs to catch up So with that in mind, im in my mid fifties now, I 'm thinking save up for retirement and splurge on something really amazing rather than struggle along with stuff that at the moment, is a bit sub-par. Granted, I havent tried "true" PC VR but I've seen a lot of videos and still all of the points above seem to apply.

[@citizenblue]

I'm coming back into VR flight simming after being out of it for over a year. I used to run the Reverb g2, but ended up selling it while it still held its value. I am out of the loop! Please advise.

[@stevejones924]

Mr.Mark...Pimax Dream Air or.....pimax Crystal Light?😮🎉

[@Hoodlum555]

Great video, it's important to point out you need a top end PC for a top end headset. I use my headset for many other things other than MSFS and have pre-ordered the Pimax Super. I have a top end PC right now and keep on upgrading as new hardware becomes available. Neither the Quest 3 or PMCL appeal to me. Both have a similar or lower specs to my 3 year old Vive Pro2. I know I will have to turn down the settings in MSFS to begin with, but I hope the Super will last me 3 years and by then it will be flat out with my then PC (I hope). The PMCL is popular for flight simmers right now, but it is a brick on you're face :) the tech inside is a few years old. I would rather keep my PC updated than pay thousands for motion rigs and other peripherals. There is a lot more to VR other than flight sims.

[@rkltck4449]

Hi SimHanger. Thank you for your videos, which I find very interesting. Are you planning to do a test with an RTX 3090 and your Pimax Crystal? That would be great, as many people bought the G2 back in the day with the 3090. Thanks a lot.

[@user-zt1er1uj6i]

"back in the day" for something that's 4 year old..... :D :D Stupid catchphrase :D ;)

[@gillett4you]

In the same boat (plane) here. Have been quite happy with a G2 and a 3090 but still undecided whether the next step up on both sides which would be quite expensive will result performance and graphic quality worth the cost.

[@krankypantz330]

@@user-zt1er1uj6i What's even "stupider" is that a now 4 year old HMD and it's entire drivers & software suite are now pretty much rendered DEAD!!! That was one of the most ant-consumer moves I've ever witnessed for modern tech, and has massively eroded any trust for purchasing future MS based hardware...especially VR & MR products.

[@jackr.749]

@@krankypantz330 The G2 is still a great headset to this day, the only way to keep using it is to remain on Windows 10 or setup your system to be dual boot between Win 11 and Win 10. NVME drives are fairly inexpensive so doing this would be minimal cost as compared to getting a newer headset. As for how good the Quest 3 is, I would say it's very close to the G2 in many respects, it has much better optics thus edge to edge clarity (Can use your eyes to look around a bit), the G2 will have just a little better clarity due to no compression (direct DP connection), the G2 also has better audio (Index like speakers), I have both HMDs and have compared them both in MSFS 2020 and I'd be happy with either one. Resolution wise, both the G2 and Quest 3 (not the "S" model) are fairly close. As far as I'm concerned, the Quest 3 "S" should have been called the Quest 2 Plus since it's more of a pregnant Quest 2 due to it's single panel and fresnel optics but sports the XR2 Gen2 chip and a few enhancements over the Quest 2.

[@poolhallshark]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@elmonte5lim]

In essence, a take on: "Intel giveth and Microsoft taketh away." Good advice, though.

[@regwatson2017]

The answer is simple. Just buy the Quest 3 as much as I hate supporting Zuckerberg. You can use it for a lot of other game playing too. You don't need those expensive high-end headsets that will be buyer's regret paperweights in a couple of years. And it will probably take two years before they get all the bugs out of MSFS 2024 anyway....

[@davidgiles9751]

Where are you flying in this video? Is it a mission, or free flight?

[@regwatson2017]

So Mark will you be upgrading to a 5090 from that out of date creaker of a 4090 and maybe a 9800X3D ? That's what we all want to know !

[@Hoodlum555]

In the spring Mark will be saying how amazing the Pimax Super is with his 5090 and 128gb quantum computer lol

[@stevensmith6445]

Im anticipating my preorder for the Pimax Crystal Super at the end of the month! Does anyone know an actual ETA?

[@Digger513]

Bought a Q3 to replace my G2 last year this time. With how much I spent on accessories to make it comfortable, and how much it was a visual downgrade compared to the G2 (data compression with the USB cable vs DP with G2), I wish I had known Crystal Light was coming. It was a couple months after I purchased the Q3 that PCL was announced. What I spent on the PCL was almost as much as what I invested in the Q3

[@Danielle-s5q]

Try virtual desktop wireless streaming, beats the link cable if you have 4090.

[@Digger513]

@Danielle-s5q I bought a Pimax Crystal Light to replace it lol

[@rmm9676]

Please list out the accessories that worked ultimately for your Quest3. I am considering the Q3 due to its Pass-Through functionality. Much appreciated.

[@Digger513]

@@rmm9676 I got a head strap (because the one that comes with the Q3 is bloody awful!), different facial interface (see same reason). Those were over $100. Which priced with the headset itself is about what I paid for with the PCL lol. Now I won't deny the lenses, and passthrough on the Q3 are very impressive. But for me I do VR for flight simulating. And the PCL is a far superior device for that purpose in my opinion

[@LukiR33]

Does the dynamic FR work in 2024? I don't have VR, but I read on forums it is dependant on some program and the developer stopped working on it. It is worth buying headset with eyetracking for 2024?

[@grzegorztomasiak]

that's why all pimax headsets like Crystal, 12k, Super or Air are nonsense. There will no be a GPU that can handle those resolutions. It does not make any sense to buy them.

[@sascenturion]

Look at you walking around after crop spraying 😅 ... Seriously though ...Good advice! Thanks 👍 . im definatly sitting with a brick on my head 🙄😂 ( pimax crystal). Ps. How's the quest 3 in the cockpit? .reading the dials and screens etc?

[@SimHangerFS]

It’s good enough to make it enjoyable. Need to lean forward a bit for the tiny writing

[@sascenturion]

@SimHangerFS Thanks for the reply Mark 😊👍

[@tomas5577]

Hi Mark, very informative video. Do you think a VR head set would benefit a person with vision only in one eye, such as myself? Or would it be a total waste ? You could try the experience by keeping one eye closed while flying I suppose, there is no opportunity to try one where I live. Unusual question, I know, but I might not be the only person pondering this.

[@Kris-qx8ht]

Hi Tomas, Have not been a regular VR user, though was an early adopter with Vuzix headsets. There use to be options to display the same image in both eyepieces... you lose the depth of field/”stereo" vision, but still retain the head motion tracking. This had the benefit of reducing the compute requirement, ie improved frame rates. Losing the depth of field was made up for in my opinion of still feeling immersed in a VR cockpit with head tracking. I have X-Plane/prepar3d but have not used either for sometime. Keeping up to date and maintaining/fixing software ”updates" can be time consuming. I try not to change/update anything once things run stable unless it is unavoidable. Hopefully Mark sees your comments and replies with advice on settings. If you could jag a well looked after used Reverb G2 or even a Pico4 on the cheap, your graphics card requirements could be a lot lower than running in stereo/3d. For the next couple of years I intend to keep running windows 10 on a seperate SSD, with no other software other than X-Plane/prepar3d... even after windows 10 stops getting updates. Will only connect to the internet every couple of months or so to refresh aircraft licences. Hopefully in two or three years new headsets will be cheaper, graphics cards more powerful, and SteamOS will be a thing so I can finally ditch Windows. Till then I am happy with using my Reverb on my laptop, and Varjo Aero on my PC. Good Luck...I say get into it because of the head tracking!

[@Kris-qx8ht]

Even a crystal light if it is within your budget, would be worthwhile. If you can get it running smoothly with "half" the graphics requirement, could turn a disadvantage to your advantage. 😀

[@tomas5577]

@@Kris-qx8ht Wow! , thank you for the information, I never would have thought about that graphics saving. A second hand set would be a good way to start. Thanks again for your input.

[@TheNordicVoyager]

Flight simming is already expensive, but VR flight simming? That's next-level expensive. A sad truth!

[@andrewjamez]

No sadder than tripple monitors

[@SuperTica22]

In VR from 2016 with org VIVE. Still grinding with G2 in MSFS 2024, but in TAA , 100% headset res, med-high and some ultra settings ,locked 31 fps everywhere(20 to 35% power still in reserve can run on 45 fps with occasional stutters ) very satisfied with pic Q and performance in one word beautiful. 13700k and 4090, 32ram.

[@keithb4048]

Do you use Reprojecrion when locked at 30fps?

[@keithb4048]

I'm still using g2 as well. And gotta say it's hard to not use lg 4k with gsync and head tracking.

[@SuperTica22]

​@@keithb4048 yes. cant fly or drive on monitor anymore😁

[@ChrisM541]

Good, common sense advice. What I find absolutely appalling, as a games programmer myself, is the increasing number of HDM manufacturers clearly working as proxies to Nvidia by producing Nvidia-only headsets. Remember, Microsoft DXR is the universal language, and one used by Valve, Facebook, HP etc etc to produce fantastic, top end headsets that work with BOTH Nvidia and AMD GPU's. By all means, provide vendor-specific options for DLSS/FSR etc, but that should have NO influence on whether to exclude AMD or not. Then again, Nvidia has been wallowing in anti-competitive practices since they were formed.

[@bradpaca]

So my thoughts on VR are not good. Bought Reverb 2 had for 4 years and win i finally got it working well it was done because Microsoft are a little brown hole that sticks. I am running a Power spec i9 4090 64 gigs ram ddr5. Just bought a new meta quest 3 and here we go again and i am not liking it. I think that these products are made buy idiots ,that are ripping off the public. Look at Pimax they just released a new unit with out really completing a successful launch of the units that came before. If you like working on your system more then playing games on your sim, then VR is for you. GOOD LUCK.

[@paulthurston2883]

VR is fantastic for 5 minutes then I get really sick of having half a house brick strapped to my forehead. No thanks. Tobii 5 way better.

[@SimHangerFS]

😂 Fair enough.

[@stmarch8359]

I am always shocked to see that even virtually, poison is being spread in nature. It gets people used to this disgusting concept... it makes this video unbearable for me

[@SimHangerFS]

No pixels were harmed in the making of this video. Then there is the issue of the virtual carbon footprint created by flying I suppose? Do you use flight simulation? Oh…and running the PC…oh and…

[@oczhaal]

The issue is that once you start VR, you always want better performance, better visuals.. So you invest in it !