Vw id3 id4 battery thermal management.

The Battery that I am showing in this video is the mid size battery from a Volkswagen ID3.
The total capacity is 62 kWh and it is built up from a 108S configuration. 12 cells in every module, and in total, we have nine modules.
The nominal voltage is 396 V and fully charged it holds up to 450 V.
Here is the link to the video when I opened up a Batteriy module:
Open up a VW id3 id4 lithium battery module.
kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4GQnYKpmZmWjLs
And if you are interested to see range tests, battery degradation tests and more, take a look at this channel @bjornnyland, highly recommended.
Cell specs:
Capacity: 78 Ah
Voltage: 3,65 V
Length: above 500 mm
Weight: 1.073 g
Gravimetric energy density: 265 Wh/kg
Chemistry: NCM 712 E78 LG Chem

[@bartvandenpoel8568]

I drive an electric VW, these battery videos have made me feel safer. These things are build as solid as rocks.And it's also reassuring that if one module fails, it can be replaced rather easily. Great info in the show notes too.

[@flyingtools]

Hi! Thank you so much, I’m glad that you like it 😃

[@nilreb]

Its a pity however that single cells are not replaceable as of now. That drives the material cost up from a couple of tenner to well around a thousand bucks

[@bernd3386]

I drive an ID4 and happy to see this video to learn more about my car, thank you for the video.

[@flyingtools]

Glad to hear that you like it. Thanks for watching ☺️

[@ROGGwawa]

thank you so much for letting me know how the thermal management work

[@flyingtools]

You are so welcome 🤗

[@milan2931]

Thanks for your work 👍. At least we can see how these modules are designed including thermal management 🙂.

[@flyingtools]

Thank you ☺️

[@nilreb]

Thanks for sharing! Your hands on approach is great!

[@flyingtools]

Thank you 😃 Glad you liked it ☺️

[@davidcorlett2082]

Really interesting. Based on home usage it won't draw so many amps prolonged. But you are correct in thinking how to keep it warm. UK doesn't get as cold as you 😊 but it's cold enough to kill lithium cells...

[@greenfrog58]

Great video!

[@flyingtools]

Thanks☺️

[@Grejarlite]

Klart intressant att se! 😃 Klägget för värmeledning kändes ju ganska tjockt, såg ju inte direkt ut att vara en bra värmeledare, men så fel man kan tro. Bra jobbat! 👌💪

[@MrPomse]

Great video. Thanks.

[@flyingtools]

Thank you 🙏☺️

[@beatmeierbm]

thanks

[@flyingtools]

You are so welcome ☺️

[@VStabiSupport]

The temperature management in this batteries is mainly for pre-heating (before drive or before fast-charge) and cooling when fast-charging. Consider a e-Golf battery is way smaller and has no active cooling - so it is obviously not needed to drive safely even scaling up to a ID weight and battery size. But - anyway - if the cooling fails (like air bubble detection in the cooling circuit) the ID will go into turtle mode for safety.

[@flyingtools]

Correct 👍🏻

[@V10PDTDI]

Thanks for the video. I have a question is top cover (lid) made out of steel or aluminum ? I hope that it’s made out of Aluminum because cars like Tesla are having problems with water ingress because of rust due to salt and water.

[@flyingtools]

Hi, it’s made out of aluminium. Thanks for your question☺️

[@gretapezzini7047]

Ciao, è la prima volta che ti guardo ma è molto interessante👍...ho già 80.000 km con id3 del 2021 auto fantastica... ma' ho una domanda: id3 preriscalda batteria se imposto su navigatore una ricarica?..grazie mille saluti da parma 🇮🇪👋

[@flyingtools]

Yes I think so, I am not 💯% sure because I have not tested that, only heard about it. Thank you so much for your question☺️

[@zingzing6550]

Hej! Fantastiskt inspirerande videos :) Jag undrar var du får tag i batteripack från elbilar och vad de kostar? Jag förstår att du köpte det första i Norge.

[@flyingtools]

Hej! Tack, kul att du gillar dem😃 Jag kollar bildelsbasen och har köpt många där. Men det har blivit svårare då efterfrågan har ökat.

[@michalerban3120]

Thanks, this is a really great video to understand how cooling works in VW IDs packs. I may have one concern. Many years ago I used to build and repair computers and from time to time in an old computer the thermal paste between CPU and cooler would dry out and the heatsink would stop removing the heat from the CPU. So hopefully that won't happen here as the battery pack is enclosed and sealed unlike a computer case. Btw. Do you happen to know how many modules are in the 2021 VW ID.3 Pure Performance? Some sources say 7 (48 kWh) and others say 8 (55 kWh). However, the usable capacity is 45 kWh. Hopefully someone could answer this question, since in the case of such a large buffer, it would not be a problem to regularly charge the battery up to approx. 90%.

[@flyingtools]

Hi and thank you. I have never opened up one of those batteries so I kan not answer for sure. Sorry. Thank you so much for your comment.☺️

[@michalerban3120]

Haha 😀 Thank you for the reply. Maybe anyone else has some knowledge?

[@Scotracer1987]

One thing I haven't seen you cover - each module has 2 thermocouples, but where are they located inside the module? I want to understand how they get a max/min temp.

[@flyingtools]

Hi. I show them in another video when I open up a complete module. Here is that video: Open up a VW id3 id4 lithium battery module. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4GQnYKpmZmWjLs

[@mikakoivisto5233]

Tesla's battery case has valves to let air in/out. Does Volkswagen battery case has similar valves somewhere? Or is the battery case completely sealed?

[@flyingtools]

Hi, Vw has the same type of valve. I think it is a kind of gore tex valve.

[@LEOGermanHybrid]

The inlet and outlet are flattened, will it not affect the heat dissipation?

[@flyingtools]

It will indeed affect it, that’s why it needs to be changed.

[@davidstud3952]

Is there a cooling circuit only on the bottom of the battery? Second one on the top of the battery as well?

[@flyingtools]

No, this is it, really simple and perfectly enough to heat and cool the cells. Mostly heat I guess because they are almost not producing any heat at all.

[@davidstud3952]

@@flyingtools yep true, its a myth that even aggressive driving heats up the battery. at least not in my EV

[@GTRDRIVER1]

Same System as in Ioniq5/6 /Kia EV6 Batteries

[@flyingtools]

Ok, I have no knowledge about those batteries, but thank you for letting us now☺️

[@joel8628]

So it can only cool and not heat up the battery? Wouldn’t it be possible to heat up the coolant and use the same channels in the pack for heating?

[@flyingtools]

It can both cool and heat the module’s. It’s more common to heat the modules, then to cool them, at least here in Sweden.

[@joel8628]

@@flyingtools Tack. Jag är svensk och har en enyaq 80x vilken använder samma batteri antar jag. Tycker den laddar så långsamt när det är kallt, så antog att den inte kan värma.

[@flyingtools]

@@joel8628 Det beror på vilken temp batteriet har. Batteriet värms för att hållas över nollan och kyls över +35grader. Vid 25grader celltemp borde det vara nära full effekt på dc laddning. Har själv inte en sådan bil så ej kunnat verifiera det.

[@andreasstromberg]

Why couldn't you just use the entire battery with the all ready connected component's? (perhaps repair the cooling loop)

[@flyingtools]

The frame was also bent, so the modules did not fit correctly anymore. The frame is also a structural part of the car. But some modules was saved and those will probably end up in my golf citystromer.

[@andreasstromberg]

@@flyingtools before you melt it down, give hydroforming a go for the next one :-) But could you reuse the electronics?

[@henrikhansen1507]

I really disagree on your conclusion. It is almost impossible to prevent or cool the top part of the unit because heat will rise and it will take an eternity to heat from the Bottom, think a thick steak on a grill. You see the issues much clearer on the E-GMP cars (kia+hyundai), where they charge with much higher C factor. They overheat and "rapidgate" as bjørn calls it. He also see it very clear on the Delta temp, he often mentions.

[@flyingtools]

Lucky aluminium, copper, and nickel are much better heat conductors then a steak😅 The temp difference in the lower and upper part of the module is probably not a big problem here as long as all of the modules have the same conditions. I mean, the temperature is controlled all the time the car is on, and due to the low internal resistans that those batteries cells have, there is also very little heat that will be generated. I do not mean that this is the best system in the world, and I highly respected your disagreement, but still I think that this will work pretty good 😊

[@henrikhansen1507]

@@flyingtools The Data that Bjørn pulls from the OBD in the MEB and E-GMP vehicles strongly indicates that you over estimate the heat transfer in solid material. Furthermore tha batteries run in a narrow temperature range and the equation for heat transfer is a diffential equation, so the realative low temperture diffence will make the heat transfer very slow and if you run heating or cooling at a temperaure that deviate by a lot from the battery temperature, then you can't have a uniform temperature in the package. So at best adequate, never good or better