Wadcutters For Self-Defense? Ammunition For Small Guns

On this episode of Gun Cranks with guest, Erick Gelhaus of American Cop, the Cranks discuss whether wadcutters and semi-wadcutters are still relevant for self-defense.
To subscribe to FMG Publications Newsletters, visit gunsmagazine.com/newsletters/.
To subscribe to GUNS Magazine and/or American Handgunner Magazine, visit fmgpubs.com/checkout/subscribe/.

[@modelcitizen63]

I think as long as shooters are willing to pay double or more money per round for the fancy ammo, the manufacturers are not gonna put too much effort into the old outdated ammo designs that worked so well back in the day. As for me, I’ll stick with the 148 wad cutters in my snubs.

[@lestergillis8171]

Of course, anyone that can reload, this is NO PARTICULAR issue. I just recently purchased a LEE 148 gr full wadcutter bullet mold. It is the variant that has the "button" style nose on the front. (Hensley & Gibbs). I just got a chance to test out a few 38 loads with it this summer. It is leaving a craving to find out more via BALLISTIC GEL. 🤔

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

@@lestergillis8171 Be prepared to explain your "custom made hyper death machine killer rounds Lester made specifically to inflict more harm and carnage" in court when the dirtbag prosecutor trying to put you away for defending yourself takes that route, cause they will. I'm just saying: be prepared to explain that. Take lots of notes, document lots like a real manufacturer would, or something.

[@lestergillis8171]

@@RADIOACTIVEBUNY I reload primarily for range "practice & target". IF by gov fiat, commercial ammo becomes unavailable, then I will use which ever cartridge/bullet type that I deem most suitable for substitute. 🤔

[@lestergillis8171]

@@RADIOACTIVEBUNY You can be happy to know that here in Indiana, we have some version of the "Stand-your-ground" defense law.😉

[@mkshffr4936]

"Mr. Prosecutor, is your concern that my mild target loads are too Rambo?"

[@LarryeWhite61]

I have my LCR in 327 Federal magnum in front of me loaded with 32 S&W Long colt wadcutters. And my 442 J-frame with Underwood wadcutters. Great ammo.

[@SouthernShodan]

That load is super low recoil and very accurate. Nice

[@la_old_salt2241]

Yep, good stuff!

[@michaelschaffer9165]

I have a snubby Model 10. I don't get much velocity from it's 2" barrel. 6 Buffalo Bore wadcutters are resting in the chambers. I think that's the best possible load for it.

[@ted.angell7609]

Don’t overlook .32 wadcutters in this equation, for recoil-sensitive people. Buffalo Bore makes a hard cast 100 grain tested at over 800 fps, and you can carry reloads of their 115 grain hard cast flat nose at nearly 800 fps, for something even your grandma could shoot but will still stop a bad guy.

[@leaonardland9001]

BB rates the 100 grain at well over 100 fps faster than the 115 grain, with the added bonus of making the gun a little lighter to carry.

[@la_old_salt2241]

Yep!

[@scottmorris3352]

I keep my old (1968) Colt DS loaded with 148 grain wadcutters. I carry SWC ammo in Zeta 6 k-packs because I figure if I need to reload my backup I am in a boat load of trouble and need the advantage of the tapered bullets.

[@jeffschultz8817]

I’m a 42 year old Sheriff’s Deputy to has five 148 gr full wadcutters in my left cargo pocket on duty every single day. My M&P340PD is also the gun I carry off duty the most because of how nice it is to carry appendix. #snubbysociety

[@leifhoklin2681]

Hey Jeff! Fancy seeing you here! I just ordered a fresh 500 ct box of ACME 146 gr WCs about an hour ago for my 642. Give me a call and let’s go shoot.

[@ObservingLibertarian]

Remember: 1) crush damage is permanent, 2) lower recoil = both faster follow ups and 3) tighter shot grouping in 'mad minute' scenarios.

[@oldcop18]

I had to use the old FBI load in my issued 4” Model 15 to rescue a hostage in a motel lobby in the early ‘80s and it worked just fine. Two other times I used the old lead round nose service round and it dropped the suspect in one case, and in another the suspect absorbed four center mass hits from my issued 2” Colt Detective Special and had to be stopped by a strike from my blackjack.

[@605783]

S&W 638 / Win 148 WC / Galco horsehide pocket holster - pretty "old school", however, there is no reason to think that this combination has stopped working...

[@dane5896]

I've been carrying the Underwood 150 wad cutters in my 442. Anti hollow point New Jersey.

[@NYRM1974]

I love the LEE SWC and LEE wadcutter molds.

[@lestergillis8171]

Even a zipper or a button on someone's coat or jacket can seriously interfere with hollow point expansion.

[@garyreadler4886]

Food for thought, thanks for the information.

[@45acp2go]

Roy you and I are the same age and in law enforcement around the same time I use to load 148 grain hollow base wad cutters inverted, for use in my snub nose revolvers. Nice shooting round that I never tested and fortunately I never had to use it as a defensive round. I had shot some small animals with good performance.

[@yellowboxster06]

Ok so that was a breath of fresh air. Great discussion. I’ve been an advocate for wad cutters for years. I have to laugh sometimes when my aging friends come by to tell me about their first (and possibly last) range trip with that simple, air weight 38 Special that the salesman talked them into buying.

[@charlene2400]

still using 90gr swc in my 32 Long H&R break-top. 4th generation using great grandad's gun. In my 38 snub, I run 158gr swc, or some 140gr at times.

[@TomMJH]

Great discussion and insight!

[@swiftbear]

I think it all comes down to profits, companies like selling $1.40 a round , copper bonded, HP , blitz , zombie home defense. vs. a .40 cent a round FMJ / wadcutter or whatever.

[@kfsrmn]

My LCR is loaded with 148 grain wadcutters. 16 oz loaded and very controllable. +P or 357 goes in my SP101. Alternative I am looking at is Norma NXD.

[@oldtanker4860]

IIRC, (I wasn't there at the time) Wild Bill Hickok used a 36 cap and ball, about the same performance as a 380. Of course no hollow points and may have been round ball of about 100 grains. It did the job for him including a 70 yard one shot one kill on a guy shooting at him. The wadcutters and semi wadcutters both penetrate well so IMO they are viable in small guns.

[@cjr4286]

It'll work, alright, but bear in mind that Davis Tutt was still able to run away from the gunfight before being "incapacitated" from his wound.

[@martinleicht5911]

They say he was a king !! 🤔

[@glenmo1]

I received my carry permit back in 1991.. I already owned a Taurus model 85 stainless 5 shot made in Brazil.. really nice j frame.. anyway I used to purchase Caroll reloading company .38sp reloaded waddcutters ..$3.50 box of 50 .. and you got 50 cents for the 50 rounds of returned brass!! I love full waddcutters.. as they are mild to shoot.. and you can easily see the holes cut in the target which is what they were originally intended for Target wadd cutters.. nowadays it's almost impossible to find them.. luckily I've got some stocked up and I just found an old gun shop near me that he had some old Peter's brand brand new wadd cutters.. I bought up the last four boxes he had.. purchased them in a big bulk buy years ago.. now I have to find the time to go to the range and fire my new Taurus 856 defender six shot..

[@majorpayne5289]

👍I like Wadcutter 158. I’ve never been a ammo snob. Nor a trigger snob. Yes, I polish some areas of trigger mechanism and there’s nothing like the smooth as glass feel of a proper trigger. I think when one is in the fight most of the silly BS goes away as more important things start to work on your brain. Good stuff guys! (SUBd)🇺🇸

[@Brykk]

I am a firm believer in wadcutters and semi wadcutters. I also like the underwood extreme defenders/penetrators. I have had very good luck with these rounds out of my lcr and my sp101 revolvers.

[@phigdon3]

My CCW is a 380 due to nerve damage in both hands a micro9 is too much. I prefer solid rounds like the Underwood. Also 100 gr hard cast flat nose and Federal's new 70 gr non-lead target round. It's fast and does well in gel even after going through clothing. I do carry Federal Hydro Shok Deep alternating with a solid round. If I needed to carry a 22lr I'd use the Federal Punch with a solid flat nose round. I have 240 gr semi-wad cutters for my 44 mag lever gun. At 70 I've had to read and experiment a lot due to physical limitations.

[@robph160]

Winchester makes a 95-grain flatpoint ball round for .380. I load it in my S&W Bodyguard .380 for exactly the reason Tom mentions in the video...the gun is tiny, the barrel is short and it is highly unlikely that a JHP round will be travelling fast enough out of that barrel to expand reliably, particularly if it encounters clothing or other obstacles. The Winchester ball round will penetrate, but because of the flat point, I believe it is more likely to upset and stop in the target. It feeds perfectly in that tiny pistol. The one thing you MUST keep in mind is that with any solid round, there is a danger of overpenetration. Target backstop is critical.

[@toneyholcombe7088]

Another factor in .380 is that a round that does expand won't penetrate reliably.

[@martyjewell5683]

Interesting video guys. I have a Smith model 36 from 1966 and though told that +P fodder is OK to use I prefer standard pressure stuff. For wadcutters I like the Sellier & Ballot 148gr cartridges. I think their muzzle vel. is listed as 699fps. Good conversation gentlemen, you've earned a beer.

[@honorb4glory606]

I like to carry 250 grain full wadcutter hollow-points in my .45 Colt derringer. They're low velocity, but they cut a .45 entry hole, and they open to as much as .63 caliber.

[@grtfshrmn]

Great video. I have not yet seen anyone talk in length about the decibel noise level and harm to hearing when having to shoot without hearing protection in a self defense situation.

[@markmeador1137]

I had trouble with consistent expansion shooting defense rounds in my j-frame. I switched to hard cast wad cutters, standard velocity ammo and I get 15 to 16 inches every time. I load my own with 148 grain. It saves a lot of money and I don’t cringe every time I pull the trigger. Also, shooting standard velocity saves the brass

[@toneyholcombe7088]

I keep my steel .38 spl snubby loaded with +p lhp - either Underwood or BB. For an Airweight/Ultralite of whatever variety, I would not hesitate to load it with full wadcutters for defense. A couple of boutique manufacturers make a solid wadcutter but as said in the video, big brands are really missing out. I also wouldn't pass on swc for carry.

[@georgewallace4457]

Really appreciate this! Helps confirm what I already knew/discovered. While I still love my 9mms. I usually pocket carry. I carry a little on the larger side for the pocket, tiny guns are harder to shoot accurately. Tiny guns with a butt load of recoil are very hard to shoot accurately, at least with follow-up shots. Some I guess I'm gonna call myself Mr. 95 grain. Because, a 95gr FMJ 380 out of a SCCY, Kahr CT 380 (I can get 3 finger grip contact and they are comfortable to shoot) stops right where it should. And a 95 grain 32 S&W Long out of a 327Fed chambered LCR does the same. Factor in real world fight-or-flight adrenaline.... I can be more accurate with these under stress than with heavier hitters... Hittin' is always better than missin'. Take (spotty) expansion out of the equation and these (380 FMJ & 32 Wadcutters) penitrate fine and have much less recoil. The bad guy is still gonna be leaking...

[@rjzlwop3153]

I’m in Texas where’s the best place to get some honey badger 380 ammo for my Sig P238, and what about honey badger ammo coming out of the Smith & Wesson 642J frame? glad I stumbled across this conversation

[@eddiexoc8430]

Good information

[@KeithC0351]

You got a new subscriber! I couldn’t agree more! People have bought into the marketing scheme of these ammo manufacturers with these new and “improved” bullet types, but completely disregard the wadcutter. In my opinion it’s the best round you can carry, especially out of a short barrel j-frame style revolver.?

[@Bluegrass-ballistics]

I have under wood 225 grain 45 long colt hard cast waddcutters in my judge advertised at 1052 fps along with pdx1 and hornady 225 grain fxt hps

[@michaelschaffer9165]

If I remember correctly the Buffalo Bore hard cast wadcutter load used to be named the Antipersonnel Load. If that is true renaming it was probably due to legal issues. The load is the same whatever they call call it.

[@daleswalley7226]

What about the 185gr. .45 ACP target semi wadcutter load, how’s it do in gel and such?

[@glennsammon4465]

for a long time now I have been using wadcutters in my small light guns. they are the best loads for the little guns like the old COLT COBRA , AGENT or any J frame. I even sometimes put them in my K frames, ( and in my S&W M12-2 2" barrel). low recoil and I don't have to worry if it is going to expand or not. and they don't care if they come out of a 2" or 4" inch barrel , they are pretty consistent.

[@-Wolfgang]

In my .380 and my J Frame revolvers I simply use round nose FMJ ammo. I don't use Plus P as some of my J Frames are quite old. I think at times we're too worried about penetration. If a person is wearing a heavy coat and is shot in the vital area he will be in considerable pain regardless of the amount of penetration due to broken bones or soft tissue damage. I haven't shot wad cutters since the department I worked for switched from revolvers to semi autos. But I'm open to giving it a try.

[@lestergillis8171]

I have a Colt 380 (Mark IV Gov model). 3.25" barrel. The LEE 105 grn SWC feeds through it just fine. The bullet is originally designed for 38s, (.358"). The LEE catalog claims it works just fine in a 9mm, so why not the 380 ?

[@joewright2304]

I personally like the Remington standard velocity 158gr lead semi wadcutter in my snubs.

[@glenmo1]

Ammo quest did extensive testing on 380 hollow point rounds.. out of a tiny Taurus TCP 380 short barrel Into FBI ballistic organic gel.. both bear gel and four layers of denim.. the rounds that did the best were all xtp bullets.. Hornady xtp..fiocchi XTP .. precision One XTP ... These were the few rounds that expanded uniformly and penetrated 12 in.+ The FBI minimum. So I tend to load one of the xtps..( NOT FTX critical defense)

[@todddavis7752]

I personally carry Federal HST wadcutters in my revolvers. I don't off hand remember the bullet weight but I do know I like them and they shoot very well. They are a bit snappy but nothing that can't be managed.

[@jeffschultz8817]

150 gr - they stopped producing them for some reason.

[@panzerdeal8727]

Ever tried a 150 grain Hard cast round hollow base ? [ Mine ball ] .

[@chrisf572]

I wonder if anyone will do a bullet mold for hard cast bullets with the Nose shape of the Lehigh or Honey Badger bullets for a more economical option for reloaders

[@user-bz7fg1pk4lbo7]

I used to carry a handload in 45 ACP, that was a 255 gr Keith Style SWC that was moving around 800 fps. It took bowling pins off the table, took down a deer at my camp at about 15 yards. I'm sure it would have been a good manstopper.

[@glenmo1]

I load my 11 oz Smith 342 air light TI 38 special centennial with Federal HST...38+p 130 grain. It is proven to penetrate 13 in of ballistic gel through heavy denim... Federal achieves the plus p velocity and pressure by seating the humongous hollow point deep in the case which builds up plus p pressure without adding more powder and the edge of the humongous hollow point is flush with the case looks like a full wad cutter but it's a hollow point...

[@ted.angell7609]

If they’re the ones I’m thinking of, they expand to about .73”, too.

[@kenhar1000]

a friend of mine worked for the Border Patrol in the 50's and there duty ammo was S&W 148 grain hollow base wad cutters, think about that

[@lestergillis8171]

The reason why your "round nose ball bullets" were walking forward out of the cases, is due to inadequate crimp.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Round-nosed bullets in the hollow point type, they rely on a velocity threshold to expand. In order to reach those velocities in a snub barrel length, the charge has to be stout. Downside to that with lightweight alloy framed revolvers, the recoil is great enough to act like an inertia bullet-puller on the other rounds loaded in the chambers. I doubt seriously that .357magnum cartridges would have issues with a lack of crimp from factory, but the .38 special loads run at half the pressure of the magnums and the crimp is going to be anyone's guess.

[@lestergillis8171]

@@exothermal.sprocket That is one very important reason why I don't like snubbies.

[@crankybuzzard6867]

can n ball.... lol That was great. I use copper head wadcutters.... 38 Special. Nice.

[@terrygardner3031]

Working ER in Northridge in the early 70's we had one guy who shot at a couple of officers inside of a home. One of the officers who recovered first shot the guy between the eyes but about an inch high it made trench following the shape of the guys skull until it left the back of his head. All it gave him was a major headache, didn't cause any skull damage just an inch high trench. I should preface this with the comment that Chief Davis said, that he didn't want his officers killed with their own guns so that was why he chose that load. I did have a question regarding Honeybadger rounds, are there any actual cases known of people being shot with them? I try to load my self defense pistols with rounds with proven track records, like HST, Gold Dot etc. For animals I can see that isn't an issue but would a 9mm over penetrate a human torso?

[@richardcheese4722]

Wise choices in 9mm. Those type HP open big real quick and are known to shrug off textile plugs. That's where you can run into over penetration issues when media corks the hole in a hollow point. Newer hp designs are better about shedding the plug of media. The modern types that look like the tip of a Phillip's screw driver look promising but I havent seen enough post shoot data to have an opinion yet. Wanna cut down on over penetration in 9mm stick with 124g hp or lighter.

[@scottodonahoe9505]

45 colt wad cutters are solid power out of my Vaquero !

[@tbjtbj4786]

Just got 2 boxes of lswhp 44 spc today.

[@verdedenim662]

take a look at the Liberty 68gr .380 HP.

[@jbw5923]

I know this video is a year old, but regular 38 wad cutters at 750fps out of these light guns like the Ruger LCRx make them really comfortable to shoot and maintain point of aim

[@darrelkopsa7143]

I am sure I'm not the first one to say that ammo companies have taken their standard hollowpoints and put them in smaller boxes at double prices. Many other youtube gurus are testing wadcutters and showing very good results, especially with HARDCAST!

[@lestergillis8171]

Thanks for pointing out that much overlooked fact. I reload & cast most of my own. I DID buy a LEE 148 gr WC (.358) mold a few yrs ago and began testing earlier this past summer in 38. The mold style that I bought was the LEE WC mold with the small "button nose" on the top. If you go to the LEE mold catalog, you will still see it there...👀 I loaded one box in 357s, but did not get around to testing any yet. I still have that box, & may load another box or so in 357 this winter. Your point, in general is much understated...😉

[@bronsondeliac2625]

What exactly is the practical difference of a wad cutter vs a semi wad cutter?

[@johnperetore151]

So the conversation covered hard cast but how effective are traditional 38 Spec 150gr wad cutters? Weak? Or strong?

[@TightwadTodd]

Effective enough.

[@Mis-AdventureCH]

Vital organs and large vasculature. There's a whole bunch in that "Center Mass" area, and the dome is pretty much a lights out switch.

[@Mis-AdventureCH]

PS - You want a test that accurately reflects the thoracis cavity, go buy a rack of pork ribs.

[@d.b.1698]

I love my .38 snubbies loaded with Precision ONe copper plated wadcutters and Grizzly SWC for my speedloaders 👍 and my .44 snubby loaded with Underwood Special wadcutters and Underwood Special SWC for the speedloaders 💪

[@katana258]

org hydro-shock was full wadcutters with a cone 147 gr lead ..made by scorpion co. then fed bought them

[@squibload58]

I gave up on hollow points a long time ago. My carry loads are heavy-for-caliber LSWC in 38 Spl, 44 Spl, or 45 ACP. For hollow points to be relevant shooters must buy into the concept of OVERpenetration. There is no such thing. Because ... the 4th Rule of Gun Safety applies at all times, even in gun fights.

[@mypetvelociraptor]

Just curious, why would someone need to shoot an armadillo? Quick Henry we’ve been overrun there’s armadillos everywhere.😂

[@sycamorebacker1]

Why not cut the tip off of the 158 gr lead round nose? Aren't wadcutters kind of expensive?

[@scottclark7592]

wadcutters are not popular with manufacturers because there is no tech involved. Everything has to be 3d designed with the newest metals and machining.

[@J.R.F.23]

For .380 I carry Underwood Xtreme Defender solid rounds that have a tip like a philips head screwdriver. With a 380 I have no faith in hollow points expanding. My faith is in penetration with that caliber. As for a 38 special snub nose revolver, for similar reasons I carry full wadcutter ammunition; it recoils less, penetrates well and is far more cost effective.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

So you're saying there's something wrong with cap and cannonball?

[@cjr4286]

I would guess the lack of willingness of ammo manufacturers to market wadcutters as self-defense ammo has more to do with liability than practicality. Anti-gun prosecutors will use any excuse they can to accuse an armed defender of wreckless endangerment or "shooting to kill," and ironically, the tables have turned on hollowpoints. When hollowpoints were new, the anti's argued that using hollowpoints meant someone was "out to kill." Nowdays, hollowpoints are standard, so old-school wadcutter ammo would be what the anti's view as suspect.

[@Redacted-Information]

SO Its good if copper does it , but bad if Lead does it?

[@larryknowlton7094]

Those Black Hills honey badgers use the Lehigh extreme defender bullet.I do not know why they load them as weak as they do.Lehighs own loading of it is more powerful and Underwood's even better.

[@9mmfederalrimmed235]

Variety sells better than 1 single do it all bullet. Thats why there is most likely this plethora of bullet styles which promise you allmost heaven on earth. The "best" is still to make 2 holes in the target. One entrance and one exit. Best for lung shots. That is why I went with the Lee molds for 9mm, 380 ACP and 357 Magnum/38 SPL. I live in an semi arid Texas or Arizona like region as well in Latinamerica. So we have here Armadillos (called here Tatu) and Rakoons (for a lesser degree) as well. Ostrichs as well and crocodile type critters. The Rakoon is by far the worst and guarantees you egg laying chickens will be missed from the stable. Armadillos dig under the foundation of the houses and weaken the basement. I use exclusively lead cast bullets from Wheel Wheights. Those ww are often as well Zinc and so my bullets are part lead and zinc as it melts in the pot. Zinc melts as well under an gas stove and it is hard to distinguish from pure lead once it is molten. So I don't care and cast it as is. So if Steel has an Moh hardness of 4 and hardened steel has an Moh hardness of 7, then an Copper bullet will not damage to much the bore since Copper has an Moh hardness of 3. Zinc has an Moh hardness of 2.5 and lead has an Moh hardness of 1.5. So theoretically and fully Zinc bullet would save way more the bore and rifling from erosion since it has an Moh hardness of 2.5 while an common Copper bullet or copper washed bullet will have theoretically 3 Moh. Not to speak of the lead 1.5 Moh which is even more an rifling saver. You don't wanna to come to close to 4 Moh for steel and never pass over 4 Moh for the bullet since you do not know if your barrel is simple steel or hardened steel. Aparently stainless steel has an Moh hardness of 5 and all my barrels are stainless steel. So I should be somewhat safe with Zinc as bullet material considered it may be a mix of 60% lead and 40% Zinc approx. For the 357 Mag I use DEWC cast lead. 148 grain. I lead these to 40 S&W power levels of about 410 ft-lbs (same power as Winchester White box 110 grain 357 Mag ammo). I shot 2 Rakoons with this and each just took one shot of the Ruger GP100 6 inch revolver. They stayed dead on arival or walked around 15 yards and fell dead. The Armadillo is allways dead on the spot. These cast lead Double Ended Wadcutters really do an gruesome wound. Obviously there is allways an exit which is intended. I have both Wadcutter molds from Lee and chose that over all other bullet styles. I do not see these tumbling within 100 yards. Another use of the lead cast bullet is its grenade character if you shoot it in front of an snake on an cement floor. The bullets fragments like an grenade and cuts the snakes belly open at least at 5 places where the intestines fall out. This works for all calibers lead cast bullets. I would take this bullet (DEWC lead cast) over any other bullet in an revolver in an gun fight. This will rip through the target and exit For 9x19 I use as well the cast lead bullets but rather 124 grain flat noses and the 120 grain other mold from Lee. The best 9x19 no matter what. This style is actually allmost an identical copy of the WW1 german flat nose bullet which the english complained about suing Germany over it. Didn't like the flat nose since it did to an gruesome wound. I shot an ill horse with this once center mass sidewards in the lung aered from 15 yards and the animal ran 15 yards and fell over dead. Lung shot and it exited the animal on the other side. Same thing for an Capibary (waterswine) which charged me and I shot it 7 times with this 9x19 and it fell over dead. As well some exit wounds (Taurus PT92). Those are here fat 100 pound animals. These do about 315 ft-lbs. I am sure if an Jaguar or Puma charges you the 9x19 will put him down with about 7 shots. For the 380 ACP I have one 100 grain round nose Lee mold and the other is used allmost exclusively which is the 95 grain flat nose from Lee. Shot some ill calves center mass sidewards and the bullets exited the animals. Beretta Pico 380 ACP. The 380 ACP generates about 150 ft-lbs with 800+ fps. It is what it is and those flat nose 95 cast lead bullets will get you defended if you hit the target. No problems to dispatch an cow for slaughtering which falls down like a bag of sand of shot between the horns with this lead cast 95 grain flat nose. I never understood the hype of the hollow point, formerly known as dum dum bullet, over the tried and proven lead cast bullet. Make sure the tip is flat nose and not round nose or directly an Full Wadcutter. I never had any problems of these lead cast flat noses not chambering or cycling correctly. However the lead bullet will deform slightly with each chambering. I never saw any lead smearing in the bore (maybe due to the high Zinc content of my castings). Normally none of these cast lead bullets flatten out but they have an tendency to break apart in the target if the castings are a bit cold or the Zinc content was particularly high. In that case there are casting grooves in the bullet but I do not care as long as the bullet does not fall apart or breaks apart when loading or chambering. I see with my castings very few deformations in my bullet unless it hits an hard barrier then it mushrooms to an hollow point size. Overpenetration is desired in order to get 2 holes for bleeding out or to disable the lung as an air pump. What is not an myth is hydraulic shock which I can observe progressively in 380 ACP (none), 9x19 (some) and 357 Mag (much). Bullet velocity does matter. I recommend lead cast flat nose bullets over hollow points and other fancy expensive stuff.

[@leathersaddlehorse]

Dating myself, but I well remember when .38 Special Wadcutters were the Cat's Pajamas (where the H*** did that saying come from anyway??).

[@mountainhobo]

Why would ammo manufacturers sell 30¢ rounds if they can sell super-duper-doodahs that perform the same (less reliably) for $2 a pop? And yeah, I totally agree, wadcutters work.

[@davejones67]

Still got the navel cam happening😂😂😂

[@doranmaxwell1755]

Ok... sooo..now the specialty ammo makers are making a full WC cast bullet at higher velocity. I don't think there is such a thing as 'overpenetration' there is either enough or not enough. I have molds for full WC for the 44 they are in 185 grain and 250 grain. Shot a wild sow who ran 180 lbs.. the 250 cast SW went almost completely end to end and she folded like a cheap card table under a fat lady.

[@RoadTraveler]

Bump

[@leaonardland9001]

Everything old is new again!

[@doranmaxwell1755]

Yeah.... I don't think shooting into big blocks of soap or 'gell' tells much. shoot a car door with a super zoot latest and greatest exploding bullet that will as your president says.... will blow your lungs right out of your body! and... you will see it went through the first layer and then lots of impressive bullet fragments lying in the bottom of the door channel.

[@Leo-fk9ch]

Wadcutters? Really? I’d suggest anyone thinking of wadcutters for self defense, that is killing your attacker not only think twice but also do some ballistic tests. I can hardly believe this subject is remotely taken seriously. My concealed carry is a compact 45ACP, my reloads of +P 240gr HP. Fast burning Red Dot powder for max muzzle velocity. No comparison to medium wadcutter (SWC) loads. Experience over and over proves you’ll have one kill shot, and it had better count. Debate over.

[@makarov138]

.23 Long full wadcutters are the preferred load in my Taurus model 73.