Wade Davis | We Should Reject Traditional Masculinity (3/6) | Oxford Union

[@OxfordUnion]

Watch the full debate here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJ3Qaa2Yrch6d5o

[@TA_Tactics]

Yeah... no thanks.

[@deavonb]

0:36​ Reaction of the guy in the background to this nonsense is pure gold.

[@JJ-1866]

Exactly my thoughts, he was hilarious in the first speech too

[@robertbeurre1825]

Fragile man found

[@M0RR1S10]

Lol true

[@davidrg6783]

Reject weakness, embrace masculinity!

[@Wilhelm-123]

Is fuarking Zyzz brah, coming right at you!

[@anonymousskunk]

6:44 "... Because how does a man know his place in the world, unless he's putting a woman in her place?" What a disgusting, patently stupid argument to make. At no point has any man who has ever thought like this been taken seriously, or been given respect. I am disgusted that his side won the debate, with remarks like that.

[@maria-ck2bo]

donald trump is taken seriously by half of the us, or are u not paying attention?

[@anonymousskunk]

@@maria-ck2bo And I hope he gets re-elected. But he's a far cry from this lunatic.

[@robertbeurre1825]

@@anonymousskunk literally most men in politics are like this, his side won for a reason and it’s evident that you have a fragile sense of masculinity

[@anonymousskunk]

@@robertbeurre1825 His side won because the calibre of intellectual coming out of Oxford nowadays is steeped in ignorance. I have scraped things off the heel of my boot that were smarter than those that voted with him.

[@jaymann5180]

The dude is gay, so he doesn't know what he is talking about.

[@marvineodidi]

"Masculinity is gender neutral." My goodness. This is just sad.

[@jackoneill8654]

@Marvine Odidi... 2 months ago "Masculinity is gender neutral." My goodness. This is just sad. ,',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',', Wait, Marvine, he's talking about behavior! I find in a concept of considerable depth, and worthy of thought.

[@marvineodidi]

@@jackoneill8654 Jack, I realize he is talking about behavior. I agree with you on that. In this case these behaviors for the most part correlate with gender. That is why I find it very peculiar when he says masculinity is gender neutral. Masculinity (masculine behaviors) refer to males. Femininity (feminine behaviors) refer to females. It's that straight forward.

[@jackoneill8654]

@@marvineodidi Thanks for your reply, Odidi. And here we go...I referred to you comment, "My goodness. This is just sad." Now I refer to, "It's that straightforward." I must disagree. Gender is gender. Behavior is behavior. The behavior belonging to the gender is, to me, a very lazy over-simplification. Rigidly assigning the behavior to the gender is in itself behavior, I can't see it supported by cogent thought. Masculine behavior is only masculine when we say it is. I know a woman my age who ran up three flights of stairs at school, two steps at a time, joyfully and loudly counting out each 'leap.' At the top, one of the nuns met her and said, "Now go back down and walk up those steps like a proper young lady." Now we go to sex. Don't over simplify it, please. For hetero sex, we say that each person is filling a feminine or masculine role. But in the instance, the experience of the individuals can go far, far beyond masculine of feminine. I find Davis' statement that masculinity is gender neutral, cogent, of significant depth, and truly worth considering.

[@marvineodidi]

@@jackoneill8654 Masculinity is not gender neutral. Neither is femininity. Both of these terms are derived from sex/gender, in this case male and female respectively. Trying to separate gender from behavior is in itself an oversimplification when in fact they are actually correlated. And this behaviors are not assigned rigidly as you say. They develop innately and can and have been observed in daily life. And I personally welcome uniqueness in masculinity and femininity because each gender brings on something different to the table.

[@liamdaly5580]

@@jackoneill8654 How the hell can masculinity be gender neutral haaaa. I have a sneaking suspission that there are ineed biological sex differences lmao. It's hard to engage

[@RatFacedJasper]

Masculinity a learned behaviour? Interesting, that would explain why I suspect this guy grew up with his single mother and a lot of sisters.

[@ecxstasy347]

Damn.

[@TriviaWarrior]

Me too bro....smh😑😑

[@jaymann5180]

And the fact that he is gay. That might be learned behaviour as well.

[@zanyzazza]

For the first time in my life, I'm genuinely unsure of the worth of someone's words. This man bequeathed words unto air for 10 straight minutes, and didn't appear to make a single argument the entire time. Despite being a member of a debating team. 10/10 Politician, 0/10 everywhere else.

[@robertbeurre1825]

Aww was your fragile masculine ego hurt by his words? He debated spectacularly and just because you don’t understand him doesn’t mean he didn’t argue all

[@omarrasuly3115]

@@robertbeurre1825 "Crown jewel of Masculinity is Muscles" no its not , its "Intellect "something that he lacked.

[@nicksushkevich]

0:24 A guy at the back reaction to this crap is gold.

[@omarrasuly3115]

he went like this shit gon be interestin

[@booklover3959]

If you do not define yourself for yourself you will be crushed in the imagination of others. That is a worthy quote.

[@frans3950]

academic person who said that?

[@mdbahrozbaburali]

@@frans3950 Audre Lorde.

[@PamweChete2503]

The only athlete to abuse oestrogen instead of testosterone to enhance his sporting prowess.

[@logeek]

This is littered with 'pure gold' reactions. Guy on the left at 00:24, girl in the middle at 00:52, guy in the middle front right at 04:11

[@dianagr4992]

Muscles and power are not the same thing. A room full of bodyguards might be very intimidated by their boss who let me tell you - doesn't need muscles.

[@Leann2]

Masculinity is mandatory in a free society 💁🏻 as a mother of 5 sons I can validate my argument !!!

[@theboss-wy4cn]

No you can't, because you are making an argument of authority. Using authority as an argument is not an argument, as it doesn't prove anything.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Leann can you elaborate your argument further as to why it is mandatory? We need logical reasons to support it, not an assertion that you are correct due to your experience alone. 🙂

[@drftrkjhguvgggfd]

When an athlete is suddenly a scholar ...

[@jaymann5180]

CTE is a helluva thing.

[@asahelsmith9490]

Redefining words to create a justification of one's ideology is a divisive tactic commonly used by those devoid of empathy and hungry for the acquisition of power.

[@arpitadeshmukh3714]

"redefining words to create a justification of one's ideology" Also known as postmodernism

[@rain_178]

Or its what you do in BP debate...you define the motion.

[@robertbeurre1825]

This isn’t a redefinition. He gave a set of definitions with justifications in order to define the terms of the debate, all that nonsense you’ve written is indicative that you’ve never done debate before

[@janschmidt6231]

The choice of the debate is already there to chastize men. You wouldn't ask the same about femininity as acted out by women. The proposition is full of presuppositions from a woman-lobby theory.

[@Outta12]

As soon as he started talking, knew what was up.

[@ALuiza-pm2dp]

I tend to zone out when someone's words mean nothing at all. And boy did I zone out _a lot_ .

[@robertbeurre1825]

Just admit you have adhd and move on, he argued well there’s a reason he won this debate

[@audreyodonnell166]

The next speaker is much more for me interesting to listen to

[@ALuiza-pm2dp]

@@robertbeurre1825 As someone who has more than one relative with true adhd, I can confidently say it's not something I need to admit. But I agree, he DID argue well; that's not what I'm talking about, though. In terms of logical conversation, he lost me. Debating well often means convincing people to agree with you, even if what you're saying is absolute hogwash.

[@demons1790]

The term weak men are dangerous applies to this "man".

[@aleeyyynaa]

Expressing feelings or being emotional is not about femininity or masculanity. Its about being a human.

[@TheOldWeigh]

I don't have male-typical attributes....so what I'm going to do is try to demonise those attributes and market my deficiencies as strengths and hop nobody notices that's what I'm doing. What Nonsense!

[@transamination]

As ever with these people who are against something that no normal person has a problem with, their argument is just... waffle. What points did he make? What is he against in terms of traditional masculinity? What is his solution?

[@Abhishek-pu7xh]

So that's an Oxford student..😂😂

[@jaymann5180]

Nope. He's a gay American football player. I guess that makes him qualified to speak at Oxford.

[@eugeinho]

patronising suicidal people........'maybe you should do something different'

[@SamNayru]

Ewan P he makes valid points, he’s clearly intelligent and worth listening to, but that was a disgusting thing to say.

[@user-ub8oi7oh3r]

Clearly these comments show no problem with masculinity.

[@lebenergy247]

if after 2 minutes nothing has been said, your not saying anything. sorry - this is ridiculous and clear ideological possession

[@stefanlangenhoven78]

You shouldn't have expectations placed on you based on your chosen gender

[@victorhauch6817]

2:50 Well I did the experiment and google only gave me articles about the change of masculinity, the only synonym that appeared as "manhood". About the search for "femininity" I only found articles about "what is it to be feminine". Im pretty sure, you didn't do your on experiment sir, I find it almost dishonest but who cares, the like/dislike ratio speaks by itself... (on the whole playlist btw)

[@FarhanAmin1994]

Google results do change over time ig?

[@robertbeurre1825]

I’m pretty sure the like dislike ratio is a result of this video being raided by some subreddit full of incels

[@simonfreebody]

auto-correct. He mistyped and auto-correct changed "masculinity" to "muscularity". Hence the bizarre result... lol

[@christopherenders4280]

If such a man exists whose entire purpose in life is to destroy everything around him, this man is one of them.

[@keithlongley362]

This guy has found the cure for insomnia..listening to him debate zzzz

[@DudeRanchDan]

Steps on stage, defines toxic masculinity, applies methods of toxic masculinity in his debate strategy, tells everyone else they are bad for doing the same thing. peak toxic maculinity. lol

[@charlielaguna7338]

We are going to let gays decide masculinity. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@surajbhatt8386]

Irony. Got you.

[@TigerKhan182]

0:28 😂😂😂😂 The guy at the background

[@brianbrau4475]

I'm more interested in the facial expressions of the guy to the left with glasses

[@indiahxzl9757]

LOL

[@rappinron1384]

It's Muscles!

[@zm35r2bn]

That's not masculinity that's called a bully

[@StraussBR]

Masculinity does not vary from culture to culture people behavior os what variates again people who operate under the wrong premises will form the wrong conclusions unfortunately

[@paulmoulton7248]

So acceptable masculinity is not acceptable? Ok, got it, but unacceptable masculinity is unacceptable. Society has already determined what is acceptable and unacceptable. If we apply his muscle metaphor to women, women too must expand and be flexible.

[@anjum2008]

This guy is gay as is clear from his body language so why in the hell he would support traditional masculinity?

[@pinheirovdf]

It is interesting, but using the same logic can't we also define feminism as toxic?

[@simonfreebody]

2:41 I think auto-correct changed his search from "masculinity" to "muscularity"... and he...

[@audrey2047]

What an idiotic waist of time of a topic. Of all the topics of great minds to pick this one is so mundane. All I hear is whah, whah, whah,. So let me get this clear we don’t want hero’s , military , police , firefighters , oil riggers, truck drivers and other strong man jobs that a little man does not have the strength or even the strength of character to do. Not to mention the population would go down since woman are attracted to a real man. Good lord , I could have had a nap.

[@JUDALATION]

those traits are not exclusive to males pussy..

[@dappiduck]

@@JUDALATION No, but you don't see women fighting for 50:50 representation out on the rigs or down in the sewers.

[@billybrain6217]

Contrast isn't the same thing as opposition. The masculine men I know are all in favour of feminine women, and they like us.

[@педро-щ5х]

this is our nature, strong, resistant, we don't cry, we resist, we don't lose, we get revenge, we are pro 😎

[@M0RR1S10]

The guy in the background s face after his opening sentence explains what i felt too lol

[@TA_Tactics]

Wow, impressive stuff... Very inspired there for about half a second, and then the "cool" unveiled message he was actually trying to convey finally dawned on me, a deep sense of being totally underwhelmed followed closely thereafter and lingered right up until those last painfully "masculine" seconds of laboured speech came to an end. Thank goodness he came prepared with definitions and had practiced saying the word "masc-a-linity".

[@robertbeurre1825]

I have yet to see you give any counter arguments, you must be hurt that he destroyed your fragile masculinity

[@TA_Tactics]

@@robertbeurre1825 well said, my mask-a-linity remains intact, thankyouverymuch.

[@RATHER5KEPTICAL]

Main take away from this speech: There was a beginning and an end.

[@phoenixmythics]

reward young boys for being vulnerable... WTF

[@god-son-love]

I sincerely hope they get jobs after graduation because I am worried.

[@joeboorer5341]

Allow me to read my essay to you, rather than speak from the heart! The heart being muscular, therefore masculine according to your ascertion?

[@davidnikon8501]

Is calling someone a Knob polisher hate speech ?

[@alguienconunvideojuego4606]

Even the Madam fell asleep xD

[@obas143]

Go home girly boy

[@intellectualgravy9796]

4:06 LOL. My homeboy(0:36) can't take this shit no more. 4:16.

[@OXHAMMERSTONE_NYC]

This effeminate man is going to talk down to me about masculinity, amazing ! My muscles grow from strenuous effort and resistance. as a son a brother and a nephew I have a duty that has been passed down to me from every generation to the women in my family to protect them, defend them. That is man, that is who we are. this is not a matter of overpowering women it is a recognition of the responsibilities that we inherently have. We may not always succeed, but we know that the point is to try. Lesser men run from that responsibility and refuse to try, And now they stand before the those of us weak and failed. Their weaknesses self-evident i dear them to talk down on femininity.

[@DrDomich]

He's putting me to sleep... You know, bunch of words that just sound - no significant meaning attached to them, very relaxing, soothing...

[@TA_Tactics]

So this is the U of Oxford? I hope you guys don't mind me saying, but it's gone to shit.

[@SansAppellation]

Strange comment about being able to assume who works for companies that edit and publish dictionaries. The field of linguistics is not dominated by hyper masculine males...

[@danstewart2770]

Masculinity is mostly biological. And irrespective of where a given woman falls on the proposition, there is an overwhelming statistical likelihood that she has a greater sexual attraction to masculine men -- that too is mostly attributable to biology.

[@allthingsnu4673]

He read the definitions of masculinity and femininity from the dictionary, then gave his own definitions, then debated against his own definitions. This video does cause me to think about what I really think of as masculinity and femininity, but I don't think masculinity is having muscles or putting a woman in her place nor do I think that being feminine automatically means being vulnerable. His ideas are quite mixed up.

[@mmkulang]

No disrespect is he gay or straight?

[@daniferris980]

This guy was unprepared for his speech. Dude practice, read and re read your own words memorize that shit. It's extremely hard to watch you break your neck every 2 seconds to catch up on what your saying next

[@ledzep331]

Biology!

[@talsapps]

Cringe man...

[@ajchirackal3878]

Idk how it creates intimacy!! I think they should do a debate on marriages-is it relevant in the current age. Anyways the gender roles no longer seems relevant. Sexual desires or creating a future generation too does not require men and women to be together for a longer period. It comes to societal and emotional needs. Society is the people. So that's taken care of. It all comes to emotional needs. A person can now be straight and not live with the opposite gender.

[@robertbeurre1825]

I wonder what subreddit all these incels are rushing in from? It’s obvious that a majority of them have never watched the video but are rather just offended that this man dares takes a stance that goes against their fragile masculine egos.

[@wit5762]

My exact thoughts when I was reading these comments

[@ratwood001]

Word salad. Here I'll try one: intimacy=in to me I see. There I fixed masculinity

[@nicksushkevich]

Quoting movies in the halls of The Oxford. Duh.

[@bobbyohnio1287]

Beta male

[@KGS922]

What the

[@almenajamband9206]

I'm sorry, I thought debates were where free peoples expressed their thoughts and beliefs to a body of thinkers. I guess it's just a form of toxic masculinity, whoops.

[@kimjongtrump8506]

Total Bumder.

[@andycochrane4131]

Debate is masculine? Uh..

[@redskyatnight123]

Muscles fucking hell!!

[@krystalccameron7689]

Oooookay then...🙄

[@Poc3d]

This topic is a waste a time

[@jam-hu]

honestly just a really poor speaker

[@AnirudhMurali9999]

Muscles? dude wtf

[@ueljim]

If you can't say it properly,,,,,,,,just saying

[@drftrkjhguvgggfd]

🤣

[@opeeable]

he is terrible at debating!

[@averagezyzzenjoyer5630]

Disslike button:

[@averagezyzzenjoyer5630]

Btw kzbin.info/www/bejne/pae0hmRpmtaljqM

[@elantradupree5941]

I agree we should reject traditional masculinity

[@derekburge5294]

If you want masculinity to evolve, buddy, you're talking to the wrong crowd. Men don't define masculinity: women do by their choice of men. Just look at the bit about who defined masculinity vs femininity! The traits for masculinity might as well have been a trait list from any romance novel's male lead. These aren't male-decided; it's what women want from men.

[@NotEnoughAttention]

yikes

[@princeamarchandjoshi4253]

This is just crap to me. Also too boring and difficult to comprehend.

[@user-cm9lz1rn3w]

What total over intellectualised crap

[@liant89]

Is this the smartest black guy in oxford. Shocking.....

[@Muadexperience]

rian G no he's not

[@SRXT09]

How did you make that assumption? He's not a student at Oxford, according to his bio he's a former NFL player that became an LGBT activist.

[@redskyatnight123]

What a load of bollocks