Varuna Mitra | We Should Reject Traditional Masculinity (1/6) | Oxford Union

[@OxfordUnion]

Watch the full debate here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJ3Qaa2Yrch6d5o

[@ЖужжащаяПчелка]

Oxford, what even are you now? I have recently watched your debates from 2013. Everyone there is polite and respectful to other participants. You see a constructive dialogue there. With jokes, of course, but the jokes which are relevant to the topic. Jokes which do NOT insult. And then I decide to look into this trashcan. You have a speaker who is calling a man a bigger girl than herself. You have a speaker who calls an opposition speaker a wanker. You have a speaker who is in every other way insulting and disrespectful! When did Oxford, once the greatest, most noble University of all, become a dumpster for egoistic and self-obsessed children of rich daddies? This debate is such a disgrace. This whole union is now a disgrace.

[@Marci-Ana-GMM]

So you choose to defy the brothehood of the brah. So you have chosen dead : Reject "modernity" embrace masculinity.

[@vollinaadkins8118]

Masculine Male being Male, ... Doesn't she look lovely don't be blue +(I)+ am here an now two help you, ...

[@othmanamani1042]

"And it's toxic because it's powerful" I shall thank you for pointing out to me the way to become powerful. Toxicity is the way!

[@maylabrown4584]

@Blue eyed Eurasian "Good one" as in absolutely correct.

[@EezoTheChezo]

Bruh but she would be happy if women were powerful lmao

[@AltAJAX]

Agree with you.

[@mainakbasu9740]

Hahaha. Every time I see a man like you my faith in mankind is restored. Let's bring back the old ways. When men became strong strictly through gruel, grit, ego and sheer will. Time before steroids and internet. Einstein actually founded the equation instead of just copying it from the internet to sound cool. Back then strong men used to actually bite nail heads off.

[@mainakbasu9740]

@Eezo The Chezo women are living paradoxes.

[@chrisb1975]

“it’s toxic because it’s powerful”...so power is toxic; or is it only toxic when exercised by one sex?

[@tafferski]

Women are never toxic and never crave for power! what a joke.

[@rappinron1384]

My masculinity isn't affected by this rubbish.

[@tafferski]

​@@Martin-cp5bb Seeking power in order to dominate and control other people is toxic behavior.

[@inder00789]

@@tafferski 😆

[@raguellagrande7344]

@@tafferski most attempts to achieve power are not inherently sought for the purpose of domination or control of others, but of control of one's own facilities and facility. For example, I run a business because I want to provide for those I love, not because I get to hire people that have to do what I tell them of they want to keep their job. To paint all efforts toward "power" as inherently toxic is an infantile talking point.

[@siyacer]

Reject weakness, embrace masculinity

[@josoveys649]

💪💪💪💪💪

[@cyrax6361]

FUARRK!!!!!!

[@darkwolflk]

Hell yeah brother 🔥

[@mrugeshv.lanjewar4213]

Perfect 👍

[@god-son-love]

As a man, I tried to be open-minded to learn what toxic masculinity is. However, the information is more illogical than some of the media misinformation.

[@gordo2022]

Become more masculine reject what she says.

[@tychobrahe6379]

The unintelligent take is that masculinity is toxic. The intelligent take is that masculinity can manifest in good ways and in toxic ways.

[@gordo2022]

@@tychobrahe6379 wrong. Weakness is the toxicity she believes is masculinity. Masculinity is strength and by definition not toxic it’s required for harmony between feminine and masculine traits.

[@josoveys649]

@@gordo2022 well spoken brother 💪

[@deavonb]

Varuna Mitra: "Controlling traditional masculinity unleashes tremendous benefits on society." Holy shit. Could there be a more sexist statement?

[@solomonarbc]

Marianne of the French led men into battle, on the barricades, during the revolution. I mean, people died when it was the right time for them to become toxic ... "benefits on society." Meanwhile: "stop being so toxic ... now be toxic for your country, in some ditch at the end of the world, just not on our streets shown on TV ..."

[@OCSmoke8]

Yeah and the irony of her entire argument is that it is in and of itself, toxic.

[@tedfoss1594]

Pure misandry.

[@davidwcooney]

"Boys will be boys" used to be an expression that described the rambunctious physical trait that caused boys to do things like wrestle and explore that sometimes resulted in them getting physically hurt in some way. The use of the term to describe inappropriate male behavior, particularly that against women, was not something that men did, it was something women said as a derogatory term against those men, but also painting all men with the same degrading brush. The men who didn't engage in that behavior didn't say "boys will be boys" in regard to it, they rightfully criticized that behavior. The argument that women had to have men as their role models in the past, so men should accept women as role models now is pure garbage. Women have always had women role models. The truth is that both men and women have been role models for both men and women throughout history.

[@solomonarbc]

Especially the figure of Mother for men, and Father for women. Abnormal social behaviour is not a result of toxic masculinity. Did history forgive Hitler because he was a little insane and a drug addict? Yes, let's blame it on the balls. I guess, if Hitler was an Eunuch, he wouldn't try affirmative action on ze Germans who lost WWI and some had to literally prostitute themselves just to survive the poverty. Bad Hitler! Only if he had not ze balls ...

[@normanshadow1]

Beautifully said. I'm 60+. The term "boys will be boys" was never a negative thing when I heard my mom say it.

[@almenajamband9206]

I believe it makes more sense to simply say that all people have toxic traits. Those traits that are neither masculine nor feminine, but human.

[@johnknight4360]

Jordan Peterson actually had a lot of good stuff in this, while I think your right for the majority of people, he talks about how if you look at the extremes of men and women, men are topically more disagreeable and women are more agreeable

[@giuseppe7574]

As a wise man once said: "woman detected, opinion rejected"

[@u8384]

🤣🤣

[@AGreenApple_]

Feminist*

[@weirdhuh8046]

@@AGreenApple_ feminazi

[@AGreenApple_]

@@weirdhuh8046 true true

[@vi-uu2jp]

lets go baby lets GO reject modernity embrace masculinity and tradition

[@a1dz-bonedgameplay808]

welp, good thing "the reject modernity, embrace masculinity" made a epic came back to our history lol

[@billybob12337]

It's not up to anyone else to decide if you can be traditionally masculine or not.

[@rashaanelam1897]

Thank you. Exactly.

[@shikharpriyadarshi3537]

but if they seem to have different definitions of "traditional masculinity" then the debate cannot happen. they're essentially debating on separate topics, if they don't agree on a proper definition/set of attributes of "traditional masculinity"

[@tafferski]

That's because there's no such thing as "toxic masculinity". There's just toxic behavior, and women can be toxic just as men can. Women are aggressive and crave for power too, but they express these traits differently and more covertly than men.

[@shikharpriyadarshi3537]

@@ikhtiarhossain exactly 😂😂

[@girlwriteswhat]

@@tafferski Toxic femininity: Lady Macbeth. She hungers for power above her station, convinces her husband to murder the king, and when he has second thoughts she goads him into it by attacking his masculinity and describing herself as more of a man than he is. Only thing Shakespeare got wrong was she would never have committed suicide out of guilt. She'd have watched the battle, waited for the dust to settle, and then attached herself to the most powerful man left standing. She'd have then sold him on a story about how it was all her husband's idea and how he forced her to go along with it, which she never would have except she was scared of him.

[@solomonarbc]

@@ikhtiarhossain Yes, it does depend how you define it. Why add "masculinity" to toxic [INSERT SOMETHING] behaviour? Obviously a young masculine man, that is toxic to others, is still "masculine." Does he have to be castrated so that when he's toxic again, he's not masculine anymore? Young men used to be exposed to a lot of physical effort in the past, whether sports or hard labor. There was also a harsh discipline in education, and when they did something, the parents or society deemed inappropriate, they were "convinced" efficiently to not repeat it again. Now, we can't touch our children but then convince them their hormones are "toxic" and they should be feminine instead. If children lack attention, even loving attention, if they can't burn their energy into some demanding sports, then they can end up being toxic to others. In martial arts you learn to be afraid of fights because of what you are capable of, after all the trainings. Instead, we let the youngsters become a burning fuse because we systematically discourage them to express themselves, learn from mistakes and evolve.

[@girlwriteswhat]

Traditional masculinity is defined in academia via the Conformity to Masculine Norms Inventory (Mahalik). The earlier inventories were a very mixed bag of positives and negatives. Mahalik's is almost all negative. "Playboy" makes it onto the list, based on a citation wherein just 1% of the men surveyed described being able to score with women as "intrinsic to their masculinity." More than half of the men surveyed in the cited source described being nurturing, and being a faithful partner, as intrinsic to their masculinity, but these did NOT make it into the inventory. The western canon of literature is FILLED with examples of traditional masculinity that are not about power for its own sake, nor about needing to be a leader. Tolkien was criticized for his poor understanding of women, but one thing he did understand was masculinity, as demonstrated by his very different male protagonists who each embodied something positive about the masculine psyche: Sam/loyalty, friendship, love and hope. Frodo/self sacrifice and courage. Merry/courage and steadfastness. Pippin/ingenuity and curiosity. Aragorn/responsibility. Gimli and Legolas/friendship and reconciliation. Gandalf/wisdom and cleverness. Boromir/duty and boldness. Faramir/honor and kindness. The characters who meet bad ends? Saruman/power hungry and disloyal. Grima/lying sycophant. Boromir/arrogance. Denethor/cold, unforgiving, prideful and power hungry. Even the Epic of Gilgamesh condemns men who want power for its own sake, pridefulness, and the irresponsible use or abuse of power, and holds loyalty, courage, persistence, friendship and love as the highest masculine ideals. This woman doesn't even know what traditional masculinity is.

[@nevertethered6386]

I had never really consciously considered the characters of LOTR in that depth of comparison before. Thank you. Also on a more personal note Id like to thank you for all the work you put into your videos, the explanations of the current state of affairs and the historical reasons that they have come in to being. I can't say for sure if I would still be here had I not stumbled across them. I was raised in a very strong and quite isolated feminist enviroment without really realising it and they enlightened me as to just how much internalised unconscious self hatred ive been carrying as a result. They have expanded my understanding greatly over the last 6 months and also introduced me to bar bar and stardusks work. I honestly can't thank you enough Karen. There was one moment, in your Red Pill Raw Files "The decline of female happiness" interview with Cassie Jaye that litetally brought tears to my eyes. A couple of times in the following 20 seconds after the 5 minute mark your voice breaks and for a split second you lose your facial composure and your underlying emotion is written all over it. Those moments spoke to me so much and to many other men I am sure. It conveyed so honestly the amount of compassion you actually have for the people you fight for. Happily I am certain you are not perfect but without doubt deserving of a place in the history books as someone who embodied a large degree of all the positive characteristics of the LOTR protagonists you mentioned. I will further thank you once more on behalf of posterity. Im am sure you have no idea just how far reaching your efforts will be. Or have been for that matter. I know not whether Gods exist...but they should, just to watch over people like you.

[@averagezyzzenjoyer5630]

Im kinda confused bro did you say that disloyalty and the other negative trates are masculine or did you say something else im kinda confused

[@tbotwest]

A man needs a woman's opinion on masculinity as much as a fish needs a bicycle.

[@tafferski]

Yes. Never listen to a woman when it comes to masculinity. They'll tell you that a man should be vulnerable and talk about his feelings. But when a man embraces these traits, women lose their respect for him. Women despise vulnerable and weak men, even though they wont admit it.

[@MartilloB]

@@tafferski Suppressing emotions is not strength, talking about them is not weakness. Therefore your subsequent statements are non sequitur.

[@tafferski]

@@MartilloB Suppressing emotions is not a wise thing to do, I agree - you need to be aware of your emotions and make them conscious. However, I'm afraid women in general aren't sexually attracted to sensitive men who like to talk about their feelings - it's a feminine trait, and it turns women off. Talking about your feelings tends to be correlated with weakness, because you share your doubts and insecurities. So yes, you need to be aware of your emotions. But the point is that generally speaking, women don't appreciate men who tend to do that, even though they say the complete opposite.

[@otterhero6229]

@@tafferski are you living in a fantasy world? Take time to actually listen to what women say rather than living under patriarchal fears that they won't like you if you're unmasculine. You can be better than this.

[@solomonarbc]

Actually, behind every strong man, there is an even stronger woman (or more), but not these kinds of women, and not because they decide one day to shape men. It is actually men adapting by being better men, for the women they like, and compete or have to compete with other men. I am astounded when I hear women complaining about a lack of men that fit their standards, like they expected the mother and all of the girlfriends, and their mothers, to prepare a man to become the ideal one for her? Aren't they full of themselves? What did they do to help a man become the prince of their dreams? Nothing, just stood and waited.

[@steadyrockscotland]

I'm failing to hear a definition of 'Traditional Masculinity'. Without it, there is no argument. What is who rejecting? As with many of these debates, they are hamstrung from the start as people argue against an apparition as if it were something manifest and orchestrated.

[@shalininivatkar7706]

Imagine how people like her are going to raise their next generation

[@aidangutierrez5736]

I was very disgusted by this video. Don’t conform to this.

[@maluco132]

They will not, and will encourage their friends son's to be gay bi wathever. A walking slob

[@MatessYT]

"hello son" "Exuse me? What did you just call me?!" This will be a common dialogue.

[@Darthnot]

@@MatessYT Thats just fearmongoring

[@luislongoria6621]

It's the smashed glass ant colony paradigm all over again: Freedom, horrible freedom!

[@girlwriteswhat]

Baroness Hale has also said that women need to be treated even more leniently in the criminal justice system than they already are. Why? Because a false conceptualization of equality leads to unequal treatment of women and girls, so we need to bring a true conceptualization of equality that treats men and women differently into the system to compensate for it.

[@saturngenesis1306]

@@Ryan-nj5ue Yes, their weird craze for equality ironically involves a desire to override the right to be treated as equals, so as to establish a system of handicaps and privileges distributed according to group membership.

[@saturngenesis1306]

What's more, it would foster a tendency to transfer the concept of "guilt" (and "innocence") from the individual to the group, so individuals are no longer considered individuals when it comes to assessing their rights and responsibilities, but as representatives of their intersectional faction and are therefore treated as such, regardless of their conscious ideas and actions.

[@Stormfox93]

3:46 It doesn't prove that something is wrong. It proves that some people make good choices and other people make bad choices in life. Traditional masculinity (of which there is no solid definition) is a correlation, but that doesn't prove causation. 4:10 Nobody assumes your bold baby is a boy or a girl. It is biologically proven by looking between the legs. I believe you are all adult enough to understand what I mean. Still not sure? We can look at the chromosomes of the baby: XX for a girl, XY for a boy. 4:59 Boys will be boys DOES imply for the boy to be himself. Because if we would say: boys will be girls, that would only confuse the boy because he isn't a girl. The boy is a boy, therefore the statement is correct. 5:07 And you are putting more pressure on manhood by saying we are 'TOXIC' and that it should be abolished. You are not solving the problem, you are creating the problem. 5:52 Why women cannot be role models for boys? Seriously? How ignorant can you be? Only good fathers can teach boys how to become good men themselves. A woman has different traits than a man, you know: masculine traits vs feminine traits. 6:01 She left out the option that these people choose their role models. They were not forced to pick them. 6:25 Actually, ever heard of Management by Objectives and how that improves overall performance in business? Maybe these high standards (to which you contribute) are like objectives. Maybe men aim for the impossible to become the best men they can be. 6:35 It seems like you are making a mistake in reasoning here. Masculine traits are normally attached to men, but that doesn't mean that they are exclusively for men. A woman can also be very masculine and a man can also be very feminine. We call the former a 'tough woman' and the latter a 'soft man'. 6:50 Power is not a trait. Power is a currency. And like with money, there is a natural imbalance. Simply because some people choose to dedicate their lives to gain more power and other people are not so bothered by getting more power. And then again: this imbalance is due to the freedom of choice we have. We are not forced to be in lesser power, nor are some people forced into having great power. It all highly depends on what choices one makes in life. It is the same reason why more men are in high positions. Men, generally speaking, are willing to work 80+ hours a week and sacrifice their own private time for the business they are in. If a woman wants to do that too, all power to her. However, biologically speaking: a man can get children from puberty till death. A woman, on the other hand, has a biological clock to take into account. Therefore a lot of women stop working around their 30s to get children before time runs out. 10:44 If it were the other way around, would she also say: god forbid? She would probably be in outrage if it were the other way around. But we can only assume that. 11:29 Now that is a real problem when some actions committed by men are considered a crime and the same actions are not considered a crime if done by women. It also contradicts constitutional laws in which we agreed that EVERYBODY should be treated equally before the law. We also agreed on innocent until proven guilty. You are promoting guilty until proven innocent. The latter kind of thinking will be the end of the rule of law. We cannot start putting people into prison or punish people for crimes that they have not been found guilty of without delivering proof. The burden of proof should always be on the person making the claim somebody committed a crime or broke a law. Not the other way around. 11:54 Because it is some sort of progress, it doesn't mean that it is a progression in the right direction. Progress does not necessarily a positive outcome. If I walked into a burning house, I would also make progress in my distance walked, but that doesn't mean it is smart progress to make.

[@sandymoorferrariclub2351]

"4:59 Boys will be boys DOES imply for the boy to be himself." I disagree with that. If the saying was "boy will be boy", it would imply that an individual boy will be himself, but since 'boys' is plural, "boys will be boys" implies a shared group characteristic.

[@Stormfox93]

@@sandymoorferrariclub2351 Sure 'boys will be boys' is plural. It refers to the behaviour of two or more boys in interaction with each other. If two boys wrestle for a toy, they are boys because that is what boys do. Why should we suppress what boys do naturally? Let boys wrestle for a while, allow them to fight over the toy because when they are adults, they need to be able to stand their ground too. I am not saying that they should bite or punch each other until one is knocked out. Wrestling amongst boys often results in respect to one and other. Do some boys get bullied? Yes, but that is because they never learned to wrestle with the other boys because mommy or daddy always protected them. If boys are boys, each of the two boys is themselves. They do what is natural to them.

[@solomonarbc]

​@@Stormfox93 good points. That Alpha-male crap is proving she doesn't understand men: aggressive "alpha-males" end up in correctional facilities - life pissed away. Some neighbors in my hood who had used their testosterone unwisely as teenagers, are below average in height since they didn't grow up because of all the early the smoking and drinking. They have a weak social standing, I feel sad when I see them. Trully, a few seconds of glory and a life of torture. I agree with you that it's a matter of choice what you do: I can afford an extra 30 pounds of body mass (and muscle), but I don't have the time, money or desire to sustain it through a more expensive diet and sport schedule. I doesn't mean though, that I'm a social shadow.

[@akashtandel9633]

​@@Stormfox93 I read your comment and I agree with a lot of points you have made but the example you have given here, doesn't it on some level validate her point. Boys will be boys is not restricted to children. It is also commented when a mistake is made by an adult. When you are saying boys wrestling is fine for a toy you are giving them validation for the future too. When they grow up, the toys will be different and wrestling will be of different form but there always will be a fight. The way you have described that what boys do naturally was necessary thousands of years ago and perhaps a few hundred years ago. This traditional masculinity is completely unnecessary today and definitely in the future. What you have assumed to stand ground and fight for a toy that can be shared are two same things but in fact they are different. Things are not to be settled with fights but with empathy and understanding. Most would simply ram their heads and see where it goes from there. If mommy and daddy of the bullie taught him to respect and to empathise then that would be great. We are no longer savages, are we?

[@akashtandel9633]

Your arguments at 5:52 and 6:35 are contradicting each other I completely agree with point made at 6:35 Your statement at 5:52:" Only good fathers can teach boys how to become good men themselves." is completely wrong. To be honest your statement kind of is sexist. A boy, a girl, a man or a woman is first and foremost a person.Being good is dependant on the person's behaviour, on how he treats those around him. A single parent is able to grow their kid in a good adult irrespective of their kids gender and their own gender. Even if one of the two parents in non functioning or something other, boys or girls can still be good person. What matters is what is taught to the kid and what he learns, period. Traits are irrelevant. A boy or a girl is taught to be a good person. There are no longer gender specific jobs in modern world except for perhaps a very very few exceptions hence boys and girls can learn from anyone they can be taught by anyone. Only a good person can teach others how to be good.

[@Solcollector1]

Well...LMFAO. This was ridiculous from start to finish. Can this just be renamed to Logical Fallacy Bingo?

[@akashtandel9633]

I didn't get it. What do you mean?

[@ishaankulkarni49]

I agree with you. All her arguments can easily be countered.

[@johnnybreezi1053]

@@ishaankulkarni49 nothing to counter really...her's were hardly arguments at all, mostly logical fallacies with no real substance

[@robertbeurre1825]

@@ishaankulkarni49 then do it

[@weirdhuh8046]

@@robertbeurre1825 someone really did in the comment section, u can scroll

[@Gpovse]

Reject modernity, embrace masculinity.

[@weirdhuh8046]

yessss boy hitting gym right away

[@justarandomguyonyoutube7978]

Me and the bois goin to gym

[@LoneWolfFootball]

We're all Gonna make it brahs! 💪

[@wdmfan]

Wahmen defining, discussing & debating Masculinity, Oh the irony.

[@karrihunter7320]

Feminists are the biggest frauds on earth right now.

[@birdsong985]

As woman I agree. I am so tired of the jealousy and bitterness. They mad cause they cant and they couldnt. They are ruining every country. And they going to make us suffer for their personal issues. They going weaken our men while another culture of men come along and take over. Scary

[@ALuiza-pm2dp]

I disagree with her stance but I also disagree with this comment. Women who aren't honest with themselves about what they see as masculine is part of the problem. I (a wamen), find it very off-putting to see a guy hiding behind a woman's skirt, saying everything he thinks she wants to hear. Women who are "feminist" or whatever tend to say, oh it's okay for a man to do this and they don't have to do that, but they're not being realistic about what men _can_ achieve, because they want them submissive and agreeing with everything they say. My point is, yes men should be an example to each other and also talk about it amongst themselves, but think about flipping the situation -- personally, even though I enjoy talking about femininity and elegance or whatever with other girls, it's a lot more meaningful when I can hear a guy's honest opinion about what he finds feminine. Anyways, that's my two cents.

[@angelusvastator1297]

Don't wanna be sexist but they srsly need to be silenced.

[@waitwhat9282]

@@karrihunter7320 nah. Feminists are radical cults who want superiority over men. F*ck these femshits

[@josoveys649]

I'll keep pumping iron, I'll keep Loving my wife, I'll keep hunting deer with a bow and arrow, I'll keep skinning rabbits for food, I'll keep well minded and follow Christ and I don't care what you tell me to do, masculinity is strength and in a generation of weakness and infidelity, myself and my fellow brahs out there will come on top 💪💪 stay strong lads, Reject modernity, embrace masculinity

[@luislongoria6621]

Keep keeping the faith

[@zrapboy7]

Something something social construct, something something balance of power... This is getting old.

[@fin-09harshitbansal35]

Reject toxic modernity, embrace masculinity

[@carlosapellido234]

Woman detected, Opinion rejected Be strong men, we all gonna make it

[@lukamilovanovic4901]

Yeaaahh braah

[@rishi2791]

Reject Modernity; Embrace Masculinity !!

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

The cry of the overly privileged when someone challenges them on ANYTHING.

[@petroyobka6305]

​@@nigelralphmurphy2852 I'm from Ukraine, my town is destroyed, some of my friends were killed, I survived 10 rocket missile attacks and my childhood house is in ruins. It is reasonable for me to feel like a victim and be lazy because "I can do nothing, the world is a horrible place. Why do some people spend millions of dollars in the best resorts on the planet, while I should fight to be alive? Where is the justice? Why me? What did I do?" But I will never accept this position because I DECIDE HERE who am I to myself: a victim or a fighter. And as soon as you decide to be a fighter, your life changes and you feel happy no matter what happens around you and with you. You just know that as long as you keep trying you can win.

[@luislongoria6621]

Fake it until you Drake it ✌

[@manuellozano5567]

This young lady is extremely inspiring. If someone with such a poor ability to make a valid point can go to Oxford University, that means I can go as well.

[@Zigga.kepler]

Yes bro, we can all do it......

[@deeznutz8320]

They gave some Goofy rapper like an hour of stage time full of bullshit Hotep history.

[@kathleenherrmann436]

😂

[@fascistcat875]

I wouldn't underestimate her. She is a good speaker.

[@BigBadJoojoo]

Is this a Gillette ad?

[@dorothyrajagukguk]

🤣🤣🤣

[@abidshahriyar9906]

spot on

[@amlinprinson5000]

Lolol

[@Phycon2000]

Did anyone read the description? "The speaker in this video is a competitive debater, and therefore the views expressed may not necessarily represent their beliefs."

[@karrihunter7320]

Yup, but there's something about her poise, tone, delivery and other non verbal queues suggest to me she passionately believes her own bullshit. Besides I find it offensive so that makes it hate speech. Down with that hate filled bigot.

[@ilex161]

@@karrihunter7320 that's a skill my dude.

[@akashshah1062]

Yes. But she most probably holds the same views she expressed.

[@vi-uu2jp]

REJECT MODERNITY BOYS EMBRACE TRADITION

[@overthewebb]

I disagree with her 100%, but I love the fact Oxford is allowing these debates to take place. Anyone with any sense should fight for her right to speak. Being a debate, not sure all the people actually hold these views totally. I'm saying that as someone who trained in law and debate.

[@apoetsquill5407]

Look at her, all oppressed by traditional masculinity...

[@luislongoria6621]

As opposed to subserviently liberated by dominant rug munchers? Semantics doesn't change 1 single thing

[@luislongoria6621]

All sexes should be equal regardless of gender roles and that's the truly game-changing paradigm

[@luislongoria6621]

When bisexuals upset the traditional gender roles, all hell breaks loose, so it's not a question of male or female in the dominant role because there is NO dominant role

[@luislongoria6621]

All men fallaciosly assume that there's a dominant woman equal to their male energy when in fact none of it is true. Free spirits desire open relationships

[@alexojideagu]

5:40 So here she is womansplaining to men that they don't need male role models in education. As if she knows what it's like to be a man growing up. Simultaneously having benefited from the femalecentric education system that benefited her.

[@Talshere88]

While ignoring the HUGE white elephant that if male role models aren't required in education, then this whole "looks like me" vendetta going is baseless (it is). It doesn't matter if there are no women leading visibly in tech because women don't need female role models.

[@alexojideagu]

They seem to think because men dominate society that boys don't need role models, because we have role models everywhere. Which is nonsense too. In countries like Sweden fully promoting tech to women, they still don't want to do it.

[@VanguardEternal]

Remember my kings, Zyzz is watching over us. Get disciplined. Get shredded, discard degeneracy and EMBRACE YOUR MASCULINITY.

[@Zigga.kepler]

Women say men to stop interfering in women's problem like abortion, but at the same time say to stop traditional masculinity?? Isn't that hypocrisy? Opinion rejected, embrace masculinity...

[@TraitorVek]

I Love how incorrect You Are

[@averagezyzzenjoyer5630]

me too

[@cierrafasken7849]

I'm surprised that the Oxford Union allowed comments on this video lol

[@personperson717]

Cierra Fasken they’re a debating union in favour of free speech which is very rare nowadays

[@PraneetCastelino]

I wish I could get the opportunity to debate there. I am a first generation male immigrant. I grew up in a violent household with no male role model. I joined the army to put myself through university, to feel part of a group as I was loner and become closer to my new home country as a immigrant. The military is often criticised for being filled with toxic masculinity but to me it was my saviour and a hope from sucidal thoughts I had before I joined. It's unfair to see privileged members of society debate a issue that affects the bottom, a fair representation would have included the likes of the non-priviledged society but they would never get a chance to debate in such a arena.

[@rumco]

Poor woman was given an impossible task, and failed. There are so many holes in this, starting with the assumption that masculinity necessarily involves discussion about women or that it cannot apply to women and thus still be desirable.

[@FEAREDTHANLOVED]

Her argument basically unravels completely at 6:20 ...

[@alguienconunvideojuego4606]

"Tradition is power" As a tradcath that's gonna be my new mantra thanks.

[@andrewteece3496]

Rarely in my life have I heard so much complete and utter rubbish compressed into a mere 13 minutes.

[@premprasad3511]

You should accept modern masculinity then, and once it becomes a tradition you can reject it by calling it traditional masculinity, and then start all over again accepting modern version until modern becomes traditional

[@premprasad3511]

@@ikhtiarhossain good question...I don't know !!! But it helps if you could imagine some crap and identify all shades of the crap with the originally envisaged crap...for all notions built on schisms are crappy ; modern or traditional

[@MegaAkash123456]

Reject modernity, embrace masculinity

[@Leann2]

As a woman I’m extremely disappointed in young women today , liberal women just wants to silence strong conservative women, traditional masculinity isn’t harmful but communist socialism are dangerous.

[@Crochedandconspiracies]

What we need to reject is the the rise toxic feminism before we write ourselves out completely.

[@thescottishanimeguy9946]

"And its toxic because its powerful". And? Being powerful is not inherently toxic, its what you do with said power. The quote "with great power comes great responsibility" sums that up.

[@Notsovegan]

9:23 Yes, men are always conscious that they have to answer to something bigger which is known as 'the law'.

[@bambostarla6259]

Reject toxic masculinity, embrace true masculinity

[@hector_5946]

Tradition is NOT power, sorry little lady but you are way off base!

[@rashaanelam1897]

Thank the activist professors for this monstrous creation. These kids need to forgo academia and start taking up trades. This is beyond ridiculous and parents go into debt 10's of thousands for this. Absurd.

[@girlwriteswhat]

@@rashaanelam1897 According to a government report, the trades are too white and male. So they've chased white males out of academia, and now they're going to be reserving spots in trades for women.

[@rashaanelam1897]

@@girlwriteswhat anything to cut the legs out of the " white " or " male " demographic to confuse gender roles. Its ridiculous. Just when u think ( NOT ME! ) govt cant get any worse. Govt: " Hold my beer! "

[@zohebalikhan7404]

The weird thing is that she'll happily be in a relationship with the kind of "traditional masculine"/alpha male type person (hypergamy). Total nonsense, no real substance.

[@solomonarbc]

To be fair, she's a professional debater. The next girl mentioned that she doesn't really believe in it. Also, quite some women like bad boys. Isn't it a clue that the majority is not toxic enough?

[@Notaffiliated64]

Reject weakness return to masculinity

[@cyrax6361]

Reject cringe, weakness, modernity embrace masculinity, manhood, no fap we are all gonna make it BRAHS FUARRK.

[@irishgroyper6942]

Based comment and based profile pic

[@BlackMarauder7]

I shall be your nightmare NO PITY NO REMORSE NO FEAR FOR ONLY TRUE GOD OF HUMANITY AND MANKIND I SHALL BE TOXIC MUSCULAR MAN

[@SansAppellation]

Can we just banish the word "problematic" from civil debate. It is hardly going to win over the other side. Eyes roll as soon as soon as it is uttered in common discourse, as your interlocutor predicts the generic world view that will thereafter spill forth.

[@STBill]

You are free to believe whatever you want and I am free to not care about it and do what I want. Deal with it.

[@Gryphon133]

REJECT MODERNITY, EMBRACE TRADITION

[@kranti101]

This debate is so stupid- My mother handled me and my sis harshly when it came to life & values in our childhood and Now we sure think that was good of her back then. Masculinity is a character trait ie not exclusive to men per se. Infact it is more related to mind. Feminism is a big illusion.

[@245194LAC]

Absolutely ludicrous. Yet another ideologue mouthing platitudes from a group looking for safe spaces and giving out free hugs. How far we have fallen.

[@karlzhang7872]

is this why the dislike button was removed.

[@sisyphusvasilias3943]

In the same way that you can't debate a MATHEMATICAL statement, there are topics that are exclusively for science to investigate and inform society.

[@jane082]

I cant believe this is a serious debate at Oxford, inverted female wahabism

[@jackooboy1]

She never actually defined what "traditional masculinity" is. She just uses adjectives saying it's power and toxic... whatever that means... So is she attacking testosterone?

[@solomonarbc]

She does define it: traditional = patriarchy. So she cleverly talks about the so called infinitely, unshakeable, patriarchy, power and toxicity. And yes testosterone is toxic ... for the unprepared. I mean, she's a woman, male testosterone levels are literally toxic for her.

[@lancetamama3674]

Reject stupid opinion Embrace discipline and masculinity

[@BECFazalAli]

Maybe this is the reason that KZbin has disabled the count for dislikes

[@igenvilagitozebracsikosang6474]

I like how a female talks about this like She would have experienced it many times before. It's like a men talking about being kicked in the balls hurts more than menstruating. And the competitive behavior and most of the masculine things are due to the hormone testosterone.

[@steverguy]

I open doors for women because I honor them. But thanks for telling me what my gesture means. Funny, I also often open the door for guys - what do I mean by that gesture?

[@normanshadow1]

My brother holds the door for me. It feels so respectful. He holds the door for everyone/anyone

[@ceasar7830]

Ok.. Now imagine a men saying way femininity is bad in public... Advance RIP to him

[@isitsafe6166]

"power" , "traditional" Don't need to define or explain what you mean by those terms at all......perfectly self explanatory. Lol Men are represented at the extremes of distributions because the male of the human species express wider biological variation and then the females choose between them. Women mate across and up socioeconomic hierarchies. The people who think that unhappiness is caused by "power imbalances" are just playing the same old Marxist game. And they're willing to violate principles of justice to try and correct what they see as the causes of suffering. They're wrong in the diagnosis, they're wrong on the solutions and they are supported in their self deception by our whole University system. Long story short, these are the leaders of tomorrow, and we're fuked

[@aqswde110]

You will not win. Men have become what they are through the trials of life and the wisdom of their forefathers. You can tear this world apart, and you will try. But it’s strong men who will build it back again. What you consider toxic, is what you need to survive once the walls come down and you turn to those men to save your weak female bodies. Stay hard men, and reject this modern weakness.

[@stefanozambelli8280]

Simlpy pathetic she is in a university and not even able to talk without reading I am depressed looking at the miserable level are cultural institutions today, the same subject is simply RIDICOLOUS. Expel feminism from anywhere please! Its a crime against humanity!

[@AltAJAX]

Guys, don't listen to this woman. Seriously. Traditional Masculinity is the way.

[@kusinara8936]

it's all good in theory, but the moment war breaks out every falls back to 'tradition'

[@skitz0299]

I’m bothered but at the same time I’m not. When I raise my kids they will be stronger than the rest that have been raised to be fairies 🧚‍♀️.

[@mofe620]

As a guy she makes complete sense. However, i'm now convinced not to take those who advance these ideas on Twitter seriously. Most of them don't know what they're saying But here someone clearly articulates something that's both reasonable and true. Now I'm going to listen to the other side And I'm grateful for intelligent conversations like this one, where people speak after thoroughly thinking through the subject matter rather than ranting out what they've been "told to believe" by some "feminists". I don't know if I'll agree with everything she proposes as the way forward but I do know that she has presented her case intelligently and thoughtfully. Wonderful to witness.

[@vasdgod]

In my country girls have two options after graduation 1. Become housewife 2. Become a working woman and give your salary to your husband . I hope this thing changes very fast and let even woman suffer unemployment why the hell only men shoulf suffer. Traditional Masculinity is needed till we have soldier robots with boston dynamics and advanced artificial intelligence .

[@lobstered_blue-lobster]

Not really actually, this is a bad thing I am assuming you are from India well I am from Bangladesh and to the large part it is same here too. Women shouldn't have to give all their autonomy to a Man just because she just happens to be a women this is authorotarian, manupilative and just plain evil. There is nothing wrong in wanting to become a housewife but the second one is just... We need strong *people* not just men but strong people despite of their sex to lead us for the betterment of our society.

[@lobstered_blue-lobster]

Not only men, no one should have to suffer through financial difficulties like unemployment etc.

[@vasdgod]

@@lobstered_blue-lobster but in India a man has to endure unemployment wheras girl after graduation if she gets job ok else marriage.

[@lobstered_blue-lobster]

@@vasdgod I don't know about unemployment in India tho but as far as I know it's not just men..women suffer unemployment too...my point is no one shoukd have to go through such amount of sufferring

[@vasdgod]

@@lobstered_blue-lobster In my country woman after graduating, work for 3 years and then settle with a guy as a housewife. My country the most hypergamous

[@1234oni1234]

@OxfordUnion - next debate: "Humanities today are inherently hostile towards men."

[@R.Truth.Official]

In the beginning she states that masculinity is something to be nurtured, then later on attempts to define it in clearly evolutionary biological terms. These terms still make sense inside a vacuum where "nurture" is ignored. I just dont see how one can claim masculinity is completely nurture when they define it in terms which oppose the that claim. Masculinity is a balance of natural inclinations and society enforcing limitations to them.

[@lawuncovered8930]

An utterly meaningless debate. "Traditional masculinity" is vague and ambiguous term for one and hasn't been properly defined and contextualised by the speaker. For two it seems to be conflated with Toxic masculinity". Toxic masculinity as a definition seems an all out assault on male predisposition to frank, rowdy and foul mannered speech. While it posits that such behaviour can be harmful to men, woman and society in general, it fails to state how such unwholesome; outcome negatively affects society. There is a general standard of behaviour that all citizens must adhere to, the failure of which no right thinking individual will wish to engage with them. In her latter discourse it would appear that she is calling, for a restructuring of male position of power to be more, evenly saturated with the female sex. Yet am not sure what this has to do with rejecting traditional masculinity. It would seem a rather naive outlook on things when considering that men have been the bearer of society most arduous tasks and affairs. And moreover more biologically designed to cope with this demand. Women on the other hand have fallen safe under the protection of their husband breadwinner activities particularly during the 1940s. She hasn't articulated why rejecting traditional masculinity whatever that is beneficial to society or why perhaps more appropriately why traditional masculinity is outdated. Perhaps framed in the context of the family one can state that the contrasting role of both masculine and feminine role is essential to upbringing and emotional survivability/ resilience of child. Too emotional out of the care nuturing of the mother the child risks being too dependent on emotional support in times of crises. With the masculine drive fostered by the father a child cultivates discipline, independence and drive to cope with challenges life presents. I noticed that she made no remark regarding how both masculinity and femininity compliment each other.

[@bikerblood3607]

1:10 the dude in the back ground lol

[@averagezyzzenjoyer5630]

Its not because of traditional masculinity but more because of the Lack of masculinity and the Lack of a father figure in young men .

[@Gtmann]

Reject nature?

[@vitkien]

Wait. Did she just say she doesn't know the difference between baby boys and girls? ONE HAS A STICK, THE OTHER HAS A HOLE! THAT'S A DIFFERENCE!

[@marcusallen1567]

Yes shut the opposition down. Call them names. Throw mud. Throw punches. Throw low punches when they can't punch back.

[@FarhanAmin1994]

With respect, how on earth can they _not_ punch back? The debate is the exact forum to punch back. Only the last speaker can be said to throw a punch when their opponents can’t throw a punch back.

[@BlackShampoo75]

I dunno... She looks like the type who likes her face held down in the pillow

[@ilex161]

Obviously not by you.

[@BlackShampoo75]

@@ilex161 That really hurts my feelings..

[@a-tv7535]

This girl's name is Varuna Mitra? These are two major divinites from the Rigved, a very important Indo-European text. Not sure why her parents decided to name her that way, it is pretty strange. Not sure if this is a joke. Clearly, though, she has no knowledge of the Rigved, otherwise she would know the central position of 'Traditional' Masculinity in that religion.

[@jaquesravalec242]

My long held belief that Oxbridge produces the best minds is being challenged.

[@anthonywilson9133]

Mine too... I think it can produce the best minds and some of the most biased, brainless, privileged young people the world can see.

[@hdg8029]

The best minds? I guess its what you define as the best mind. Sure, someone can store all the information in the known world of physics in their brains and understand how to analyse the world in terms of physics, but that doesn't give them the ability to critically think. People often mistake knowledge for Intelligence.

[@luislongoria6621]

1st and foremost: Are all committed relationships toxic? Without the JEALOUSY needed to bind 2 individuals together, there is no union. The very institution of marriage itself is always rooted in JEALOUSY

[@noNdeSCRIpt732]

toxic affluency is far more dangerous than toxic masculinity. Most of toxic masculinity can be attributed to sociopathy, psychopathy and willful ignorance, composing a small minority of men. Inflate a non-issue to eclipse a real issue; forget everything you think know... then re engage with the world.

[@UNOwen-uw8ow]

This debate is the embodiment of "sexism"

[@Aerostarm]

she is right

[@stefanozambelli8280]

Its simply aberrant that women are allowed to talk about this topic and are chosen as speaker too. Oxford has become a parody of politically correct!

[@orange6775]

Traits of traditional masculinity include strength,leadership,independence and assertiveness. I don’t know doesn’t sound that toxic to me.

[@maluco132]

Don't you love a woman explaining what is the right way to be a man and masculinity?

[@sofiapapadopoulos093]

Lol exactly

[@nthlgrt9911]

😂 Vive la "Traditionnal masculinity" 💪🏻👌🏻

[@TheFilthLA]

The common denominator is women's sexual selectivity. It's a "winner takes all" game, and for whatever reason, hyper competitive men who win the respect of the other men are the one's women go after. Men need sex to be able to think straight and be anything approaching happy. In the realm of sex, women hold the power. I understand all these points, but this worldview that is trying to reconstruct gender entirely ignores even the most basic understanding of male psychology and sexuality. It's truly bizarre.

[@shughy1]

She might as well be discussing the supernatural, a lot of vague stupid assumptions and no credible research into them. What a disaster.

[@cupcake8669]

This women presents everything, everything you shouldn't be.

[@rayt2065]

The reason this is a argument is because of money....it's the equalizer.