Wahoo KICKR CLIMB Gradient Simulator: Unboxing, Install, Ride Review.

Here it is! The unboxing, install, and ride review of the Wahoo KICKR CLIMB Gradient Simulator. First seen at Eurobike 2017, the unit is about so start shipping soon - So here's all the details on what you need to know to get rolling up and down on the first-of-a-kind product on the market.
Links:
GPLama Kickr Climb Preview Video: goo.gl/zJneXR
DCRainMaker In-Depth Review: (TBA):
Wahoo Official: goo.gl/34uBci
Please subscribe to support this KZbin channel: bit.ly/3aUph9W
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Web: shanemiller.net
Instagram: / gplama
Strava: / strava
Twitter: / gplama
KZbin: / gplama
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[@jseski9209]

at 13:44 we see the MAMIL in his artificial environment react to the new toy with a spontaneous, genuine, happy-smile going on :D ...now I can't wait 'til mine gets delivered to my LBS!!! I'll be up there before they can hang up the phone when they call to tell me it's arrived. Great vid, Shane; you're always perfectly thorough. Thanks!

[@KieranRawley123]

Shane, you are a legend. The screen shot at 12:46 allowed me to solve the lack of comms from Zwift to the climb. I was using BT but not getting a response. Tried ANT as shown (looked for the FE value) and I'm all hooked up. Your videos have been instrumental in getting me up and cycling with my wahooligan set up. Cheers

[@sprintkick9793]

Just got mine. Takes a little getting used to but it really makes Zwift even more immersive. Great video as always.

[@szabiakanich]

Yet another well shot, well produced, informative review, Shane. Great to see the different camera angles and overlays. It really adds to the overall experience. Keep it up!

[@1975lap]

Now I won't wear out my front tire after a full winter on the trainer.

[@glennoc8585]

1975lap please tell.me that was a joke.

[@hophop9745]

you can buy so many tires for the price of this thing 😂

[@krisbowditch827]

Perfect excuse to get one lol 😂😂😂

[@GearMashers]

Digging your cycling room. Looks so clean. Unfortunately I am not going to have a room that looks like that for a long while. Great review. I think you are getting better and better, but I know it takes a lot of time in post edit to mash all of the videos/audios together. Fantastic job. I am still learning the ropes in the KZbin world.

[@zwiftalizer]

My kid just said, “that Lama, always opening presents from his grandma” :-)

[@gplama]

Then check out the next video.... going live in 3....2.....

[@ZNBStudios]

Great video and awesome aero tuck!

[@anthonys5568]

Great Video, really helped! BTW. I just set up my Climber with my KICKR. The rise and drop of the Climber in Zwift Watopia was spot on. I did not feel a lag.

[@brendanhead6833]

I can see this being a good thing for comfort on the saddle as well and moving your contact points around throughout a ride.

[@gplama]

Bingo!

[@jaymueller2418]

Spot on.

[@guyfisher2050]

Excellent review. Not sure I’m going to invest in that though. For those curious how to convert angle to gradient: Gradient [%] = Tan(Angle[°]) × 100

[@SiGainey]

Just wanted to say thank you for making this video, it was very helpful

[@jamesd7271]

2:05 probably the best part of the review.

[@stephenmoon2767]

Excellent as ever, like popping round a mates house to see his latest toy, then trying to work out if you can justify one yourself!! Now where's my piggy bank??

[@FPL_Drago]

Excellent review Shane. Same can not be said of the music choice :) That lag needs to be looked at before release but it's still pretty cool.

[@Conza]

trying to find the recommendation of the wifi/way to turn the power on/off with a remote? thought I saw it on this video, can't find it.

[@madiantin]

Woah. Look at that awesome bar tape! Excellent review!

[@d3wy]

Your full motion teevee mounts need to move with this 😂

[@mtnbyked]

15 years ago when Computrainer was the hot setup we raced on NetAthlon. (Think 8 bit avatars!) Someone had invented & patented a climbing device that worked with the CTrainer. It was $800 at the time.......I almost bought it.....

[@Chader9]

Ed Burgess I heard about this and searched, but haven't found any pics or info. I'd love to see it if anyone knows where to find it.

[@michaeltan511]

Man for that money I think I will get a better riding experience with a rocker plate.... top content as usual Shane! 👍🏼🍻

[@bobwatkins1271]

Compatibility note: we discovered today that the Climb does not work with Trek bikes that have a recess in the fork for a SpeedTrap speed sensor (vs. in the chainstay for a DuoTrap speed/cadence sensor). On those bikes, the forks have a larger-than-normal diameter, which causes them to rub against the housing of the Climb as the it raises and lowers the bike.

[@gplama]

Interesting. Thanks for the post Bob.

[@TooManyGooglAccounts]

I don't think the delay is fixable with firmware alone, especially with the smoothing. There's a radio delay (seems to always be 1-5s with ANT+, I find BLE is lower at least), a delay for the motor to actually move the bike to the target gradient, and then also a delay to smooth out the change (remember the demo at Eurobike didn't do any smoothing). The only real fix would be for the app (Zwift) to send gradients ahead of what's on screen and allow the trainer to queue adjustments to happen at the correct time for the hardware. Zwift told me they were working on a delay adjustment 2+ years ago but like many things it still hasn't materialised.

[@Chader9]

I have been advocating for a "Trainer Delay Offset" function from Zwift for over a year. Needs to be "smart" to account for different approach speeds, but this should happen to remedy the resistance and now grade change delays we get from the trainers (and are essentially impossible to eliminate).

[@TooManyGooglAccounts]

For now I think Zwift should just have a simple offset and anything "smart" should be handled by the trainer firmware. That way the communication between Zwift and the hardware can stick to the standard open ANT+/BLE profiles and any extra features should be configured in the Wahoo, Tacx, etc, apps.

[@Chader9]

Yes, I'd be happy with a simple 2 second (or whatever is a good average) shift in Zwift sending it early. It wouldn't be "perfect", but it would for sure be better.

[@iancruz2066]

Great video/explanation again Lama. I just got this and really like it. The benefit I'm getting is the diverse set of body position that helps for longer hours of indoor riding.

[@HelmutVonSchet]

Another great video Shane. Would like to see you re-ride your TT course map you made a video of a few months ago, and see how it compares with the Climb installed.

[@gplama]

I like the idea! Stay tuned.

[@tahirpatan]

I hope tacx guys get one built soon.and compatible with the tacx neo

[@6ft8incyclist]

Well done Video!! I am looking forward to the rocker and Climb together.. I think if the rockers become more popular, hopefully The smart trainer manufactures will get smart and build there own rockers..

[@Chader9]

academyrulz ,integration faces at least one hurdle, that being the US patent owned by Kinetic for the Rock and Roll trainer. Maybe there are ways around it, but I think that patent is one reason we haven't already seen integrated rockers from other trainer builders.

[@glennoc8585]

Chad McNeese Kinetic only have a patent.on.their design.of rocker not a rocker trainer perse because a bicycle mount trainer is not a new concept or invention. Look at it like Sram.and WiFi or Shimano and di2, neither tech is truly innovative enough to claim.a sole copy write patent.

[@mjv1967]

Looking forward to other brands (Saris) taking this idea and making climb devices for their respective smart trainers.

[@kiverrussell8369]

Thorough stuff Shane, really good insight into set up and how the unit performs. Yet to work my way up to even a Kickr yet, though it's firmly on the wish list (probably a Wahoo refurbished gen 1 mind), but perhaps one day I too can play with up and down buttons while riding my bike...

[@54poppet]

I want to ask the following questions: Why didn't you do a full out sprint? Why do you use the block for the front wheel? And is it compatible with other trainers? BUT I actually read the comments before I ask questions, and seeing as you answered them all 20 times I'll leave you be lol Great review as always Shane!

[@gplama]

G'day Mullens! (Legend multiple Aussie Champion for anyone reading the comments!) - A full out sprint - I didn't think it was all that important, it's not a power meter or a flywheel/trainer. It's held up fine in sprints in follow up rides. I'll do one on the next video I do on the Climb (likely with the Kickr SNAP). - I use a front wheel block on static trainers to take the pressure off my hands/arms/arse. Without steering, veering, and the changing centre of gravity you get outside with accelerations/hills, I find it more comfortable to jack the front up a few inches. Just personal preference. - The Climb is only compatible with the trainers that have full up/down pivots with the rear drops. So at the moment that's the Kickr17/SNAP17. Using this with a trainer where the bike is 'locked in' will eventually grind and wear hangers and dropouts, and people will get all grumpy. I'm sure Wahoo would love to have this compatible with all trainers, it'd x4 their ability to sell more.... but... it just won't work at this point with other trainers.

[@54poppet]

OH MY GOD you didn't even read my full comment did you..??? lol But thanks for the in depth reply :)

[@gplama]

I read it all! Promise. They were good questions I could summarise for everyone else to read too. :)

[@54poppet]

Well I was taking the piss with those questions, but I do enjoy your reviews! And I too use a block to take the pressure off my hands, so pro.

[@timluscombe6686]

Comprehensive Lama review, most excellent.

[@Mine96craft]

You look so happy when you go riding :) real love there

[@selinovaldes]

I have a climb and I generally like it. The biggest problem is that Zwift often fails to deliver the gradient info to the unit. I’ve done all kinds of experiments and there’s no rhyme or reason to when it works and when it does not. You often won’t know that anything is wrong until 5 minutes into a Zwift ride because they usually start at 0%. So as soon as you warm up... nothing. You have a $650 front wheel stand. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@adgreen1972]

Nice review (as always). Thinking about getting one as loving my Kickr trainer and Zwift but keen to add an extra element of realism. Love it how the instruction manual is quickly discarded during the unboxing!

[@cyclingenthusiast5078]

Thanks Motti Pikelny! We’re lucky to have a few old bikes to put on a trainer. They have 10-speed drive trains, have short cage derailleurs, and small cassettes. I wanted to replicate 15%+ grades without slipping to

[@bosco2814]

I am really looking forward the setup + rocket plate. cannot wait it! Great review. Fortunately, I am using neo right now. Kickr climb is useless for me currently lol.

[@RoyImahara]

Awesome review. My dream cave just added another component!

[@Ezza-1]

Nice Work Shane. I am interested in your experience on the climb in relation to the screen height. Like you, I have a wall mounted TV and I am keen to know if you had any difficulty with neck strain etc when the climb changed gradient. This would probably be at the worst on maximum downward gradients. Is there an optimal height for the screen when using the climb?

[@gplama]

I didn't have any dramas with the TV height. You won't be spending a lot of time at any negative gradients, or epic positive ones, so non issue in my books.

[@kenny5692]

This is gonna flop IMO but its the first go at it. Looks flimsy at high grads. It would be better if they made a platform that everything sits on including the trainer. That way it would be more stable and can be used with any trainer as well as no axle problems. I do like the idea. I find on zwift its annoying not having any feedback on gradient. You constantly need to watch that silly map to know whats coming. Hopefully zwift can make that better at least. Having this will make gear changes an automatic response just like when your outside.

[@lhamagedon]

I agree that thing is ridiculous. Wouldn't a hydraulic cylinder running off an electric motor be much quicker and quiet. You could also do some sort of road feel sorta like the TacX Neo.

[@chrisvanbuggenum871]

i dont have the money so its not really an issue for me, but i was kinda dissappointed in seeing the speed at which it went up and down. Whats the max gradient it goes up to? It didnt look that steep.

[@DanielRodrigues-hn8cx]

great video as usual Shane!

[@scj350]

Nice review Shane. Looks like there was more side to side motion using the Climb than when on the trainer block. Was this bothersome and did it have any affect on wattage? Thanks!

[@gplama]

Didn't feel any different to me having the Climb on the front compared to a wheel. Only the ups and downs. No impact on power, well, none I could tell with that hour of power.

[@duanegran]

I'm curious to know how stable it feels when doing sprint type efforts. It looks stable, but if you jump out of the saddle and throw down hard does it feel properly planted?

[@gplama]

I didn't rip out any green jersey sprints... but the contact points are the same as a wheel, so the feel is no different.

[@murder4735]

What’s the diameter of the climbr power supply plug connector? I have found one without the supply

[@gplama]

That's a good one for Wahoo support.

[@simonrussell2642]

Cheers Shane great work as usual

[@TheUsername1302]

Is it worth it when specifically training for cycling in the mountains? I mean when cycling uphill your balance shifts and it’s hard to adapt to that when everything near you is flat

[@Skyline0324]

Excellent review.

[@user-xv4tw1hc1x]

Кикр клаймб только с кикром работает, или с другими станками тоже? Или она к станкам не привязана? А работает чисто с приложением?

[@gplama]

Wahoo only.

[@luketoms6110]

What's Apl du Zwift like riding with the kickr. Just ordered one.🤘

[@gplama]

Hard work! 😅

[@johntitmus8851]

Nice one mate, very useful and detailed

[@KimberlySmith-eb5tp]

I just bought this and am very excited to use it. I am struggling with the adapter choices. You don't mention the size you choose that I can understand. I have 700x25 tire size quick release non disk brakes, I see numbers like 12x100 with the Blue sticker and so on. This is my struggle. I. don't know which one is for me

[@gplama]

You'll need the QR inserts that look like your front wheel. Page 1 of the manual shows "Adapter A - Quick Release Adapters"

[@crookahillcroft7326]

What size adapters ones for a normal road bike with the quick release?

[@Audunsfitness]

Any reason the Climb wouldn't work with a Tacx Genius (or other Tacx wheel-on trainers where the back wheel is held in place with two cups "grabbing" over a special Tacx QR skewer)? I can lift up my front wheel freely all the way until the bike is vertical (even longer if it weren't for the wall behind the bike) while the bike is on the trainer. No restistance or grinding whatsoever. Of course I mean using the remote to manually control the grade of the Climb, I know I need a Kickr trainer to make it automatic.

[@gplama]

As long as you're confident it's moving freely without grinding anything, then it'll be good to use manually.

[@Audunsfitness]

Absolutely, the Tacx skewers have a perfectly round steel cap on each end which goes into correspondng cups on the trainer lock-in mecanism. There is no resistance whatsoever when the front wheel is lifted. Here is video of the Tacx setup: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHTJhHyKZdhloq8

[@ryanbalukas5803]

Curious if they will be able to improve the kickr climb Zwift integration as you mentioned. I thought the Climb just takes the data directly from the Kickr, so Zwift doesn't even know about it. I hope that it can be resolved though! I am looking forward to this.

[@davepratt9909]

Cool, I want one. Can you do a video showing the "Trainer Difficulty" interactions? Will it move more when you crank it up?

[@gplama]

Stay tuned on that one... It's still early days for Zwift (and the others) who are figuring out how to give the best experience with one of these units.

[@KimHDRoberts]

Missing the major selling point entirely - engagement of different muscles due to the different angle the bike is on during climbs and descents - ergo, better training for the real world as you're building muscles (that wouldn't ordinarily be engaged on a trainer) on the trainer that more closely resemble real-world muscle use. At least, that's what they were touting at Eurobike.

[@ps6149]

Looks like fun! Thank's for the review :-)

[@ZorrillaJimenez]

Nice video. How is Trainer difficulty accounted for? If it is set at 50% does the trainer then relay the corrected grade to the climb?

[@gplama]

More on this soon.

[@richardhutchings1980]

Shane any chance of a review of a rocker plate? They look cool and might also add to the ride experience

[@gplama]

If I can get one, sure. Not too keen on making one from scratch. I've got a pile of things on my plate at the moment before getting into another DIY.

[@richardhutchings1980]

Shane Miller - GPLama excellent. They sure look interesting. Just a matter of time before there are more people making and selling them. Great potential for long rides. Big bunnings project. More than the bike stand

[@JeffRothe]

How are you using two televisions in your setup? Is there another bike that was pulled out of view for this video, or are you using two screens for one Zwift experience?

[@gplama]

Two screens into one PC. I also have a splitter that allows me to run a different system on the 2nd screen if I need (Apple TV, another PC, etc)

[@hngldr]

Finally... Woohoo! Now when will the damn thing ship?! I've been waiting (and constantly wearing down my F5 key on Wahoo's website) since Black Friday... Glad to hear they're making sure to get it right for sure, but good lord am I getting angsty waiting for this thing! Also glad to see you can change the axle height AND the wheelbase since that changes what angles correspond to what - that was a concern I hadn't seen previously addressed. For a taller ride I know I think it'll only be able to go to about 16%, but I doubt he would complain about ONLY 16% lol. I'm also curious to see the desk solutions people come up with. Looks like the Wahoo desk works OK-ish, but not as well as before where you could slide it back over top of the hoods, and instead now it looks like you have to just stretch out every time. Lastly - you said pre-orders are open, but where? On Wahoo's website you can still only sign up for email notifications... www.wahoofitness.com/devices/bike-trainers/kickr-climb-indoor-grade-simulator

[@gplama]

As long as the bars clear the desk it's all good. There's a few Aussie retailers who have pre-orders open. I won't plug them here... Google will find them.

[@philippw.1551]

What I would like to see is the feature to use the CLIMB in ERG mode. I do my structured workout on my indoor trainer, however to my understanding there is no option to say like: "ok, I design a 4x4 intervall training with a slope of 15% and a wattage level of 320 Watts or a 8% slope at 320 Watts. Between intervalls go down to 3% slope at 190 Watts." I have to change it manually on the CLIMB remote directly. As far as I know it will only adjust if using a software such as ZWIFT. Would be nice to see more usability of the CLIMB in the ERG mode.

[@LeoInterHyenaem]

I wonder if it works in conjunction with competing trainers from Elite and Tacx, as well.

[@gplama]

No

[@LeoInterHyenaem]

@@gplama That's a shame. I hope, Elite and Tacx do follow suit on this one.

[@lucagandolfi4k]

KICKR CLIMB is the top. The only thing I don't like is that it's compatible only with KLICKR trainers. I don't want to change my top trainer Elite Drivo to have the climb experience

[@fw_uke_ha]

Hi Shane, I already posted this as a reaction to another Kickr Climb video. (Kickr) Indoor Trainers and ROCKR Plates so far so good, but the climb might turn out to be a problem for a lot of riders using it in the near future. Let me explain this. If you angle your setup into a climbing position, all the load moves back into the saddle. toes and feet get lighter, likewise irl on the road. Sitting in a climb, the steeper you go up, the more load moves back to saddle. Load in the saddle means the spine (esp the lower part with the discs, muscles and nerves, down to the sciatica) has to compensate this kind of load. IRL your bike is able to move in bidirectional positions, left/right and back/forward. Back and forward movement in a climbing position on the Kickr Climb is not possible in almost every setup I saw. So far only the new cycleops rockr plate gives this kind of motion. Unfortunately the risk for getting serious back problems and pain with the Kickr Climb is very high, cause the load for the spine will increase dramatically while climbing in a sitting position. To be honest, I am not sure, why no other orthopedician or physiotherapist came up with this to date. I won't even think about, how untrained riders and beginners in indoor training, with no suitable trained back muscles, will sum up after using the Kickr. Also I find it a little bit strange, that there is Zero health issue warning from Wahoo's side... Just my 2 cents! Beside that, have fun and ride on!

[@gplama]

Interesting. I'll be keeping my ear to the ground on the experience people have with the Kickr/Climb combo. I'll have to study this more... off the top of my head I'd say a poor bike fit would be more troublesome than what the Climb does/can do.

[@fw_uke_ha]

I know you should also know some riders (mortly beginners) who turn out to get back problems esp while sitting on hills and when they start into the sport. I agree with you that IRL also bikefit and wrong position is a plausible reason. But it is also a reaction that they put load on there lower back even IRL and being in a perfect position. The question is, does it sum up indoor and how much is it, when the trainer is fixed back-/forward. Have you done some longer climbs so far, meaning by going up let's say Alp d'Zwift which is the longest possible climb? If yes, how did your back managed it? Did you feel any differnece?

[@gplama]

I've done Alpe D'Zwift a few times with the Climb. No issues at all, for me.

[@hngldr]

@16:20 it looks like you're well into the steep downhill (negative 13-14%), but the Climb still isn't down as far as it should be? If it's max is -10% ish, shouldn't it be bottomed out there?

[@gplama]

The Zwift interaction is a work in progress... stay tuned for exactly what it does vs what's on screen with upcoming releases from Zwift.

[@zwiftalizer]

That’s an interesting one - in the fe-c gradient data coming from zwift - down gradient values are exactly -0.5 * the up gradient values. Perhaps because the resistance drop off was too severe on the way down when it was 1 to 1. But it needs to be 1 to 1 for the Climb otherwise it would never level back out.

[@hngldr]

That... makes a lot of sense to what I've felt actually. Always wondered why I could still push downhill so hard in Zwift compared to usually being totally spun out somewhere between 30-40mph IRL. I figured it was just flywheel inertia vs the real thing or whatever. But the fact that during ERG mode or calibrations I could get spun out confused me then. I feel like they should change that anyways then, but I can see how that'd throw a wrench into things. For one, getting the 100kph achievement would be more difficult (unless turning the trainer difficulty to 0 just causes you to get 0% gradient when going downhill too???), and it would mess with racing times since descending certain slopes would cause more people to be spun out.

[@zwiftalizer]

hngldr yes, trainer difficulty is a multiplier of 0 to 1.0 * the up AND the down, so 0 is no down slope which gives racers the same advantage that non-interactive trainer users get - MORE resistance going down and less likely to spin out, so more power.

[@jappification]

With your collection of trainers, will you be trying other trainers and options with the Kickr Climb? I do hope so

[@gplama]

Kickr17 and SNAP17 (the 2nd gen SNAP) are the only trainers to support this as of now (Feb 2018).

[@pauldamian2988]

Until Wahoo figures out an adapter kit for my Kickr2 this is useless... Plus, I can't see it making much difference in riding, NOT like a rocker plate would... just IMHO. Good review as usual!

[@RainerWilton]

Shane Miller - GPLama what are the limitations on using other trainers? The way it pairs directly with the kickr17? So it can't physically pair with a kickr2, plus there's the clearance issue?

[@glennoc8585]

Power consumption would peak at 240w but on average it probably would consume less than 25w over a 1hr session so a couple of cents. Tacx neo with a self powered climber? So from what I can gather this climber only works with the latest version of kicker and not other smart trainers? If do that is disappointing. I can see a hack app coming shortly to get around it or perhaps Wahoo have but in an unlock protocol if they should decide to sell it as a bolt on. Oh a final question, will.the kicker get quieter because it seems very loud compared to.my whisper drive or the.neo. You can't hear the climber Shane over the whirring.

[@gplama]

(my other comment on this vanished... here it is again) - Only works on trainers with full pivoting connection points. That's the Kickr17/SNAP17 at the moment. I'm sure Wahoo would love to sell it to alllll the other trainer owners... but at this point that'd result in a lot of broken drops/hangers eventually as they are statically clamped to the bike. The Kickr is the Kickr when it comes to sound. The Kickr2/17 are a little quieter than the original.

[@robindz8502]

When I stand on the pedals I usually put a lot of pressure on the handlebar, what are the weight limitations of the climber?

[@gplama]

I’m not sure off the top of my head. Wahoo should have that in their website.

[@rickdc3]

To get the Climb to move the correct amount in Zwift, you can leave the difficulty at 50%, and just double your wheelbase length on the Wahoo App for Climb Setup.

[@gplama]

Yes. Covered in detail here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXK9kJ1mfal3m7M

[@delyle101]

I have watched you from the start and I have to say Cycling maven might get jealous soon as your subs are getting very close to his and might surpass ;-)

[@gplama]

He's got a lot more on his plate than to worry about my subs. Looks like baby Mave is almost here. We also do different things, so there's room for everyone. SocialBlade is where you'll get all the trends/stats/history for social channels too.

[@delyle101]

Shane Miller - GPLama relax I was being silly you both do different things. Just keep making great content and I will keep watching the both of you 😉

[@logalog4236]

Shane what would happen if you try and use this with a Kinetic Rock N Roll turbo? Would you fall over?! Or would it be super dope realism? Hmmmm...

[@gplama]

I'd like to find out. Kinetic have been somewhat elusive when I've reached out... I'll try again.

[@michaelb2912]

Cool video. Question - it looked a little unnerving watching it move around. Obviously it’s locked in and the rear axle is locked too but did it feel any different from a wheel when actually in use?

[@gplama]

No different at all. Identical contact points, so it's just the same. Although good question - because visually it looks kind of strange.

[@jorgitogaitan]

Llama! Thanks for the review! - I recently crashed and sprained both hands (a small fracture on one of my wrists) I was thinking of getting the climb to set it to max climb so the weight of my body is not so much on the hands while staying seated. Is that something I can achieve w the climb?

[@gplama]

Yep. But to be honest a few phone books (if those are a thing any more?) will do the same job for that specific purpose.

[@sercheese]

is there any point in buying a kickr 4 against kickr core if you already have a power meter with cadence and an additional cassette? and I also won't be using the higher power of the first, because I'm no pro :) I imagine that kickr core with kickr climb would be more than enough? why are you though using the kickr 4 instead of core? thank you very much Shane for all your hard work making high quality videos about smart trainers!

[@gplama]

CORE would be fine. It's hard to tell them apart. The Kickr18 has a larger flywheel and adjustable frame.

[@r6isnum1]

@Shane - does the Zwift Trainer Difficultly setting impact the Climb? For example, if you have he Trainer Difficultly setting at 50%, will he Climb simulate half of the in-game gradient?

[@gplama]

Yes

[@JBSpine007]

After 11 months of use mine just broke. I was going up the subway climb and standing when it hit 14%. A moment later I came crashing down when the grade simulator collapsed. Pretty big shock to my neck! Contacted Wahoo. A replacement is en route. Has anyone else had this problem?

[@Tchairdjian]

Ouch!

[@justjxn]

Yeah they break but wahoo does replace them

[@andrews346]

Hi Shane - great review. So now we are removing front & rear wheel, just thinking whether I should then keep my old steel framed bike permanently setup...or are you better Zwifting on your good bike?

[@gplama]

Bike doesn't really matter. As long as the groupset is reliable, the contact points are comfortable, and it's not a bending wet noodle of a frame that'll be horrible to ride.

[@gazevans4990]

Good review 👍... in your opinion which would be a better set up for a more immersive zwift experience.. tacx neo or kickr snap 17 with a climb?? (Both set ups around £1000 uk)

[@gplama]

The climb for sure... as it moves more naturally, well, as you'd expect a bike to move on hills. But you're comparing direct drive to wheel-on, so there're two different things.

[@stephenparker7499]

Thanks Shane invaluable info as always , cheers.

[@ralph14836]

Shane how well would the KICKR Climb work on a rocker plate? Would it be stable enough?

[@gplama]

Should be ok.

[@hw646]

Great review Shane! I'm interested in getting one for myself. However, I have a few concerns. At 16:33, when you started jumping out of the saddle, the fork was flexing. Another closer look at 17:10, your frame in general flexed laterally. I understand bike frames do flex, especially when riding on trainers. With the fork mounted, the flex is magnified. I'm concern about prematurely fatigue stressing the frame, especially when the frame has small defects, which could lead to delamination. Any input? Did you try to all-out sprint on it? If yes, how stable was it? Keep up the good work!

[@gplama]

My take - You'll always deal with flex. It's by design on bikes. If you're ever worried about your bike, then get another one... one you can afford to snap in two and throw away. If you're letting concerns about delamination creep in... and it's having an impact on your training, don't use carbon. Not that I have any issues with using them and trying to snap them in half indoors (haven't yet), but if you're worried nail the issue and spend the time rolling with a smile. I'm not sure why people are asking about an all out sprint on the unit? I'll do one... but.... I'm not sure for what reason? Contact points are the same. It's stable. It's not a power meter or resistance unit. I'll do one... but only because people are asking. (if it's about jamming the front wheel into the ground, then that's incorrect sprinting form)

[@solobuilder7451]

With your close relationship to wahoo do you think they will bring out “adaptors” so the climb could be used on say tacx neo etc?

[@gplama]

That’s up to Wahoo and Tacx. I don’t see how they can retrofit what it would take to be compatible in such a small space and maintain the required strength a direct drive needs. As for future compatibility with new products....I don’t expect that’s a priority. That’s just business.

[@anthonyschiavone9644]

Hi Shane, thanks for the video, they're always great. I'm looking at the product at the moment. Have you had any information on the belt failing on the unit? Seems to be a bit out there across the net about it. Thanks in advance, and thanks for all the great info you put out.

[@gplama]

I’ve seen those posts. It’s up to a Wahoo to reassure people it won’t happen... or they’ll be looked after if it does.

[@dibomadcatz4068]

Have another question, you reviewed many popular brands in the indoor training. But do you have any experience with the Austrailian brand JetBlack? The come out with a new smart trainer. Do you know something about this trainer?

[@gplama]

I do.... but I don't have anything I can share here. If a unit comes my way, I'll give it the full run-down here.

[@NelankaPerera]

Does this Climb turn easily, such that you can use it with Zwift’s turning feature? Great review and demo video, thanks!

[@gplama]

On a hard surface, yes. It wasn't something it was designed for though.

[@brillowolf]

In your honest opinion, which has more training benefit? Tacx NEO road feel or the Kickr Climb?

[@gplama]

Radom pop quiz answer - The Climb. But it comes down to how you use either and for what benefit.

[@markroe4952]

Why do you have a rise on the front wheel. I thought this is not needed as without is a better simulation of the road (seen at the very beginning when you were unboxing)

[@gplama]

Because I prefer it that way indoors. There's no steering, turning, accelerations/momentum indoors that takes the pressure off the hands. Next question is why I didn't rise the Climb up too - Because it does have motion in it to take away the static position issues.

[@markroe4952]

Shane Miller - GPLama thank you for your helpful answer

[@PapaLazarou1977]

Hi Shane, I am coming to this a year later, so did they sort out the lag between Zwift and the climb so there is no delay in the end? Also, have there been any changes regarding ERG mode please? Thanks for the great review as always :)

[@gplama]

No major updates I'm aware of sorry.

[@maveriks463]

Hmm seems interesting kit giving a touch more variety- but take up will be driven by cost/perceived benefits. But seems some what un-natural as you obviously won't be able to swing the bike a bit on gradients. I'd be a bit worried on frame stress - But an addition for premium shoppers. However missed a trick by not making it backwards/fwd compatible with kickr 1.5. Given the life-cycle on these trainers are quite long for mere mortals...

[@gplama]

The stresses on a frame when sprinting outside and bombing a technical descent at 60km/h+ hitting/jumping potholes would be a lot more than on the Climb. It's harder for people to see a frame stressing in those situations though, easier to see them flex on a trainer and think bad thoughts. I'm on the case here. ;) In short. Non issue. As for compatibility - Almost impossible given the design of the previous trainers (all companies) for both the clamping and mounting on a rigid axle (Kickr1/2). I'm sure Wahoo would love to sell it to everyone. It's just not possible.

[@maveriks463]

Shane Miller - GPLama ok good to know about the stress issue, they should/ will make that crystal clear. Yeah​ compatibility, I guess it's down to planning+R&D dept should have been a lot more forward thinking. But it is what it is.. Enjoy.

[@motpants]

I didn’t post publically because Wahoo assured two weeks ago me that they had no other instances of similar catastrophic failure. But now I've seen multiple similar reports on Facebook groups. I’m 77kg and was on a flat at 200wkg when the belt broke suddenly dropping to full negative. I regularly sprint at 1000w and and am out of saddle weight forward on punchy climbs above 7wkg - had this happened during one of those instances I would have been injured. My replacement is arriving this week - I am very concerned. I should have looked more closely at the belt - I wonder what the rating is. Wahoo tech assured me that they had put tons of hours on dynamo but I am worried they could have understimated the literal bouncing that goes into the system in a sprint. I have 2000km + on the climb - mostly racing.

[@gplama]

Nasty. I’ll keep an eye on user reports.

[@marcwatkin559]

Great review Shane what is the weight limit of it please.

[@gplama]

Weight Limit - 250lbs (same as KICKR/SNAP)

[@norevlimitr1602]

Since this unit works from data transmitted from the trainer does the trainer difficulty slider in Zwift affect the climb unit??

[@gplama]

Stay tuned on this one.... Zwift are still nailing the exact functionality with this.

[@stp24601]

Great video. Your thoughts on this setup vs. the Tacx Neo? Which would you ride more often on your own time?

[@gplama]

Neo is quieter... and requires no calibration if you're using it as a power source. There's a ton of other factors too.... so what I ride and what others should ride are not always the same. Your call.

[@rsfrsf2001]

Maybe the new trainer Direto XR is compatible with the kickr climb as the rear dropouts on the bike pivot. Can anyone confirm this? Waiting to hear back from Wahoo and Elite.

[@gplama]

Physically, yes. No support in the firmware to control the Climb though.

[@rsfrsf2001]

@@gplama Thanks for the speedy reply. I wrote to Elite and Wahoo...maybe they would consider updating firmware to accommodate this trainer? I bought the DiretoXR based partly on your enthusiastic review and it has been running fine (and a good value) and I'm getting accustomed to barely turning the pedals at double digit grades. I have to remember that I often just go 3 or so mph out on the road when it's that steep. LOL. I don't think of this trainer as some people used to say about my Bronica S2A camera that it was the "poor man's Hassleblad?" I don't think of the Direto XR as the poor man's Kickr ? However, I may be missing out on the Wahoo Climb so that is why I encourage someone to update firmware. What do you think?

[@gplama]

@@rsfrsf2001 Support is entirely up to Elite/Wahoo. You'll have to wait for their reply.

[@testalino]

Can you please post your bike size (on that giant tcr) and body height (+inseam length)? Thanks, that would help me out.

[@gplama]

That's a M-L Giant. My body dimensions.... for exactly what do you need to know these for? If you're into making life size latex dolls of KZbinrs I'll understand. (then I'll delete my channel and burn my house down... but I'll still understand)

[@testalino]

I'm interested in buying a TCR as well, thats all, nothing creepy :). I am 188cm and I am bit unsure. My current bike is more like the M-L (dimension-wise), but Giant recommends the L in their chart.

[@Gamokmk1]

you proberly get this question a million times but im looking for the best high end trainer where noice level is a concern, what would you recommend?

[@gplama]

At this point in time, that'd be the Tacx Neo.

[@kwc7391]

You were talking about two settings on the Wahoo Fitness app. (timer 10:30), One was type of bike (axle height), the other you talked about (wheel base), which I don't know other than my height.Can you tell me what setting you were using as I will be using a road bike as well. My climb is coming in August.

[@Tchairdjian]

KWC by now I am sure you’ve figured it out. The wheelbase is the distance between the front and rear axle. The unit needs that to calculate the height once it receives the grade info. Some bikes are longer than others.

[@KingsleyWeb]

They should have put some road feel into it, that would have been fun

[@gplama]

And steering in Zwift.

[@alexjrashman]

can you have a go at building a turbo rocker plate?

[@peermancolin]

I'd pay to watch that. No cutting away to here's one I did earlier like the mounting of TVs on walls :)

[@gplama]

Maybe. Depends on time and cost.

[@jseski9209]

the use of rocker plates voids any warranties (according to Wahoo... as we would expect) But also, I don't know about the stability. Even in this vid, your limited out of the saddle stuff when climing - it looked a little wonky. I noticed you sat back down pretty quickly (which yes, yes, I know - seated climbing is better... :P), I "dance" quite a bit out of the saddle (sprints or climbs) & I hope this thing will be stable enough. I think a rocker plate would just amplify the issue. Your thoughts, Shane?

[@Chader9]

Jeff, can you provide data or proof to your claim of voided warranties? I am actively involved with rocker development and have seen nothing on that from any maker.

[@jseski9209]

I'm currently dealing with a warranty claim on a Kickr Snap; I specifically asked the CS at Wahoo I'm working w/about rocker plates & included in my email from this rep was: "...as far as the use of 'rocker plates': we do not recommend the use of these with the KICKR, KICKR SNAP, or the upcoming CLIMB not only because most are homemade (therefore impossible to assure tolerances), but also because none of the units have been designed for the different external forces that would/could be applied to their product." Sorry, Chad; I love the idea of the rocker plates myself & had started toying with some different design ideas....now shelved. Like I said, I already had to send my SNAP back in for bad bearings after two weeks of riding!!! (VERY frustrating, hoping its just an anomaly) Also - one of my rides is a '17 Felt AR3; it has a 130mm rear axle width - I get a very liberal amount of side-to-side movement when it's in my SNAP (nothing to do w/the bearing issue - in fact I've been assured it's "within tolerances". However, it still seems odd to have about an inch of left/right tire travel on the roller... anyone else have this issue??)

[@glennoc8585]

Shane I.just checked out a vid on.fit rocker plates, you going to knock a set up with your diy skills ut should be a breeze. Eagerly waiting.

[@gplama]

A lot of people are asking about them. I was going to give them a wide berth. I'm here for the people... so stay tuned! ;)